tangoGPS 0.99.4 - now more sports fun, revive your Freerunner

[Marcus Bauer]

Hi,

long time no see. A new release of tangoGPS is out with some major
stuff plenty of little improvements, still getting even a bit 
faster and snappier here and there.

Major stuff is support for heart rate monitors, based on some patches
sent by Tobias Prousa. If you are using your freerunner for sports /
outdoor activity, this hopefully brings it to a whole new level for
you!

Other stuff is a shortcut for reloading the tiles of the current view
(F5) which was requested by JP Meijers who is a very active OSMer in
South Africa.

Full release announcement and tarball on http://www.tangogps.org/

Have fun!

Marcus

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Re: Forking TangoGPS - a digest why this is a silly fork

[Marcus Bauer]

I certainly haven't had the intent to add another post to this but
because the parent post is featured on fsdaily and people following
that link there want a quick reply:

 * tangoGPS is committed to quality and excellent user expierence is the
   key of the development focus

 * tangoGPS is open to contributions, everybody can grab the
   tarball, put it in a VCS of choice and send patches

 * tangoGPS is actively maintained and experimental features are a part
   of innovation and ongoing development


 * the forkers have so far submitted *two* patches which were not
   accepted because they were very low quality, introducing several
   bugs and at least one crasher

 * the forkers compare themselves to egcs ./. gcc, however that fork was
   done by long-standing, active contributors that shared a major part
   of the development work

 * open source projects are based on meristocracy, the longer and the
   more a developer or user contributes, the more influence he gains.
   Its a very simple and powerful concept.


The tangoGPS project has been a huge success, it runs now on over
40 distributions and on a large variety of platforms, from handheld
devices like the Freerunner, the Nokia N810 and N900, the smartQ5 and
smartQ7, as well as on netbooks, laptops and even the AS/390...

The success has only been possible due to the cooperation with the Open
Source ecosystem at large, and has been featured in articles on major
websites like linux.com.

An estimate from the webserver logs shows a user base far beyond
100.000 and the friendservice has been used over a million times.

The project is now in its fourth year of development and contributions
are as always very welcome.

A big thank you for all the support I have got from the community, the
development of a fast, easy to use and user oriented app will continue :)



  Marcus Bauer
- Lead developer of tangoGPS -






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Re: [QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:54:57 +0300
Margo  wrote:

> >
> > Can you telnet or nc to localhost port 2947, i.e. either:
> >
> >  telnet localhost 2947
> > or
> >  nc localhost 2947
> >
> > and if this succeeds, type 'r' followed by enter. You should see
> > somthing like this:
> >
> > ~$ telnet localhost 2947
> > Trying ::1...
> > Trying 127.0.0.1...
> > Connected to localhost.
> > Escape character is '^]'.
> > r
> > GPSD,R=1
> > $GPRMC,132008.000,A,4340.8841,N,00713.9172,E,3.60,221.79,271109,,,D*6B
> > $GPRMC,132009.000,A,4340.8829,N,00713.9156,E,7.42,221.99,271109,,,D*68
> > .
> > .
> > .
> 
> It only says:
> GPSD,R=1

Does a simple:
  cat /dev/ttySAC1
show NMEA output?

If no, is your gps powered up?

If yes, what are the contents of /etc/default/gpsd ? 





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Re: [QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:27:54 +0300
Margo  wrote:

> >
> > Hi Margo,
> >
> > which version is your gpsd? (gpsd -V) From 2.92 onward the API
> > changed and the next version of tangoGPS will handle this. In
> > general you can simply downgrade gpsd to <= 2.90 without loosing
> > anything.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> 
> It's 2.37

Can you telnet or nc to localhost port 2947, i.e. either:

  telnet localhost 2947
or
  nc localhost 2947

and if this succeeds, type 'r' followed by enter. You should see
somthing like this:

~$ telnet localhost 2947
Trying ::1...
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
r
GPSD,R=1
$GPRMC,132008.000,A,4340.8841,N,00713.9172,E,3.60,221.79,271109,,,D*6B
$GPRMC,132009.000,A,4340.8829,N,00713.9156,E,7.42,221.99,271109,,,D*68
.
.
.

Marcus





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Re: [QtMoko] How to install tangoGPS?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 23:20:22 +0300
Margo  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> How should I install tangoGPS on qtmoko? I did:
> 
> # apt-get install libexif12 libcurl3-gnutls libgconf2-4 gpsd
> # sed -i 's/DEVICES=""/DEVICES="\/dev\/ttySAC1"/' /etc/default/gpsd
> # sed -i
> 's/START_DAEMON="false"/START_DAEMON="true"/' /etc/default/gpsd #
> wget
> http://www.tangogps.org/downloads/tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb-Openmoko
> -O tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb # dpkg -i tangogps_0.99.2-1_armel.deb
> # reboot
> 
> But tangoGPS can't get the fix. Did I miss something? Do I have to
> change something in tangoGPS settings? I'm using v20. I had the same
> problem with v18. Previously I was using the ghislain's installer
> images. These had tangoGPS installed by default and it was working
> fine there.

Hi Margo,

which version is your gpsd? (gpsd -V) From 2.92 onward the API changed
and the next version of tangoGPS will handle this. In general you can
simply downgrade gpsd to <= 2.90 without loosing anything.

Marcus



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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:19:25 -0400
Stephen Pape  wrote:

> Okay. I'm not sure what you're getting at, or why you're completely
> changing the subject to make a personal attack on me over an argument
> involving software development practices.

So when you use Google it is okay and when I use Google it is a
personal attack? Hey, you are such a cutie :-) You should try to sue
Google for diffamation - you could get rich quick! :D And I will join
you because "Linus Torvalds" and Openmoko has a lot more Google hits
than me and that guy has never done any work on Openmoko at all.

I'll right tomorrow write him an email about what's wrong with his
completely fair scheduler. I think there are situations where it is not
fair enough. And I'll be really upset if he disregards my email just
because I have never contributed to the kernel (almost at least).

> Maybe you should look inwards regarding your complains about developer
> ego. 

I have scheduled 4 hours for this task next weekend. You think that's
enough?

> Good luck.

Thank you. And thank you for your example that the best way for
avoiding questions about forking is not to make any open source
software at all. 

...gosh, what a cutie Stephen is... :D

HAVE FUN. Last mail, day over. Thanks guys.




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Re: how to contribute to open source projects

[Marcus Bauer]

Hello Rui,

you certainly know that I value your opinion a lot. 

Just the other day there was a storm going on about a remark of Scott
James Remnant from Ubuntu who is an outstanding developer, very much
committed to advancing Ubuntu. People who have never done any
contribution flooded the bugzilla and flamed him.

Foul behaviour needs to be sanctioned, otherwise it ruins the whole
basket of apples. User experience is key. 

Actually I have received several supportive emails today from people
that have similar amounts (or more) of Google hits in connection with
Openmoko than I do have. As wrong as it is to go for weeks to argue
with these people it is to let it go through without response.

There were at least three other projects in the last four years with a
similar scope than tangoGPS. Where were the people complaining about
not being able to participate in the development of tangoGPS when those
projects were open for participation, where are their contributions? 

Foul play needs to be clearly identified and pointed out. I rather
doubt that those people have got plenty of invitations today to join
other projects but I'd be happy if that would be the case.

I don't know what your current main project is, but feel free to invite
them. Let me know in 4 years if they are still actively contributing
and I'll cover myself in ashes :-)

Have fun with them and please take them away from me and thousands
of happy tangoGPS users and integrate them in your projets :p

Marcus



On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:17:30 +0100
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra  wrote:

> Hi Marcus,
> 
> Reading your comments, I'd say you're quickly running several steps of
> "How to destroy your community" - http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/
> 
> I won't go into the details of listing which is which, and please note
> that my felling on that is *PURELY* based upon your emails and not on
> what others claim or feel or actually passed through.
> 
> Rui
> 
> ___
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> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Marcus Bauer]

Hi Stephen,

thanks for your feedback - especially as you are a programmer as you
once stated on the openmoko mailing list [1].


On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:36:38 -0400
Stephen Pape  wrote:

> but I couldn't find any useful results with Google. 

Dang! I have exactly the same problem when trying to find 'useful
results with Google' when searching for your contributions to Openmoko:

"stephen pape" openmoko -> 18 results (2 from this discussion)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22stephen+pape%22+openmoko&start=10


Well, have a nice evening and dream well :-)
Marcus



[1] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/014875.html

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:02:05 -0400
Stephen Pape  wrote:

> "Aces" in your sleeve? You mean you're keeping the development process
> intentionally closed to discourage forkers? What?

I happily explain it again to you: forks are potentially damaging to any
project. Here and actually only here on openmoko there have been some
people actually massively aggressing me and threatening me on any
occasion with a fork. So yes, you got that right :)

I do not always have time to work on tangoGPS and still can do a
constant flow of new features. You are a funny man - big scandale that
not all my brain activity is monitorable :) I know that RMS would like
to enclose all software developers in a gulag with constant thought
monitoring - yeah! Any software thought must be freed at once :)

Just to mention it: the linux kernel had been developed for the first
years purely based on tarballs and patches without any public
distributed VCS and collaboration has worked without problems. Simply
because in 1992 pretty much nobody had a 24/7 permanent online internet
access.

It is not as if 80% of the code changes in a week. And it is not as if
there would be legions of willing developers. Actually any open source
project that I know is short of good developers and much more software
doesn't even get developed because people lack skill, focus, energy and
long term commitment.

Last not least I am replying here because the thread was opened here
and because many people have bought Freerunners to run tangoGPS on them.

A last word: the vast majority of the members of the Openmoko community
are here for the opportunities that open hardware and open software
offer. Hwoever a small fraction has a misunderstanding about free
software. I have seriously received bizarre emails of people telling me
what I have to do because I am a free software developer and as they
don't know how to write software I have to do it for them.

Best regards,
Marcus - creator of successful free software :-)






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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:32:59 +0200
Stefan Fröbe  wrote:
> I guess with those prerequisites I won't make any geocaching
> submission soon
> - while all the features are usable as long as you have obtained a
> GPX file with all the data, the conversion to an sqlite3 db is done
> on the CLI with (one call to) bash/python scripts.


Well, .LOC should be possible and for reading GPX files there is
already code in tangoGPS. Running a loop over the GPX and inserting it
in a db is probably in a few dozen lines of code possible. I could have
a look into it. Up to you.

Marcus

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Marcus Bauer]

Hi Stefan

before it gets lost in all the other discussions: I'd still be happy to
integrate this.

Remarks:
 * it must be usable for people that have not signed for the 30$
   premium account
 * everything must work from the user interface, command line is not an
   option
 * no python dependency - you can use either libsoup or libcurl

Send me your last working tarball and I'll have a look and make
suggestions or give you a hand.

Marcus



On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:46:46 +0200
Stefan Fröbe  wrote:

> Hi,
> as I recently struggled with the same issues I'd like to comment on
> some of the suggestions
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Joshua Judson Rosen
> wrote:
> 
> > ...
> 
> Most importantly: How should I keep up with work that you're doing
> > upstream between releases? Maintaining the patches that I use is
> > vital to me, and it's harder to do that if I have no idea where
> > you're going upstream--if I have no idea what's going to change out
> > from under me with the next release.
> 
> 
> I can only second that - I ported my geocaching enhancements from
> version to version, but am becoming more and more reluctant to do so
> with every new release. Any public repository would be helpful in
> distributing and maintaining these features, even if they wouldn't be
> included immediately in any official release.
> 
> As I said, I *do* really *like* tangoGPS--I owe you a big thanks for
> > giving me a good base application on which to build!
> 
> 
> I could not agree more - and yet I'd really appreciate it if the full
> potential of community driven enhancements would also be available.
> In the current state, my features collect virtual dust on my HD and
> will probably never ever see a release, with chances decreasing as I
> loose interest in developing them further with all the burdens of
> porting and adapting.
> 
> I can fully understand Marcus' focus on quality, and TangoGPS is a
> great result of that approach - but still I hope that someday a
> reasonable public access is possible with his help instead of forking.
> 
> Stefan

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Re: tangoGPS community development, patches (was: tangoGPS magnify patch)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:47:55 +0300
Timo Jyrinki  wrote:

> I wouldn't mind if there was an unofficial, non-endorsed version
> control system and mailing list as well.

Essentially it is the constant threads about forks that have been
started and fuelled over and over again by Risto that keep me having
always a few aces in my sleeve and restricting access to people who I
have confidence that they keep the project over their ego.

As long as nobody speaks up and tells them to shut up, I'll
certainly keep having aces in my sleeve :-)

Nevertheless, this totally doesn't prevent anybody to participate in
the development. In any case up to today nobody here came to me and
said: "hey, how can I help out with the project?" and was refused.

It is important to show that these are a few -albeit very vocal-
people who first want to serve their ego and then the users of the
project.

The fork shouters are known as poisonous people and they can befall any
project. There is a Google talk about the subject from the SVN
developers.

Marcus


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how to contribute to open source projects

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 19:19:26 -0400
Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:

[...]

Let me summarize:

 * you are well aware that forks are potentially damaging
 * you wrote one patch that was not accepted
 * now you spread fud and threaten to damage the tangoGPS project

Well okay, you certainly have the freedom to damage the tangoGPS
project which is a major contribution to the free software world... 

But:

tangoGPS is an excellent piece of software, actively maintained and
developed and very focused on the user. Any good quality contribution
is highly welcome and this means: User experience first. Developer ego
last.

And nope, I don't have the time to hang out on IRC - that's because I
have plenty of life in the real world. And I guess that's why I develop
GPS software - you can make best use of it if you leave your desk and go
out.

All major software projects have pretty high hurdles of participation.
One of the most excellent software projects is certainly Debian - and
they are well known for a veeery lengthy process to become a Debian
Developer. If you go there, submit an invasive patch to apt and demand
to become a Debian Developer or otherwise you fork Debian - well,
people will only laugh at you. That's because Debian is so big that
your fork wont do any damage.


Probably one of the key aspects of tangoGPS is its simplicity, that's
why so many people like it. Keeping it that way takes a tremendous
amount of discipline and thought. The easier it looks, the more work
and the more thought has been spent on it.

It is always easy to add more buttons, more menus, more patches more
everything. Everybody has different ideas about what is needed and for
any feature you will find someone who wants to have it - finally you
end up with plenty of buttons everywhere. The totally overloaded
toolbars of Openoffice or Word are a good example for this.


Under the hood it all this leads to code obesity. It is like eating a
cookie here, a cake there, some fish and chips, and one day you wake up
and you have to carry 140kg body weight with you around at every step.

I found a nice picture about patches:
http://www.globalnerdy.com/2009/02/26/always-keep-salt-in-the-server-room/

And patches are like patch-cables: they potentially do something, but
the question is how much of an improvement they are and how they are
done.

There is a good quote of Antoine de Saint-Exupery: "Perfection is
achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is
nothing left to take away." The success of the iPods is a great example
for this.


Good contributions and long term commitement to tangoGPS are always
welcome!! I will stay commited to the user community and the continued
success of tangoGPS.

My special thanks to all the people who have given me encouragement
with their friendly feedback and support, and to all people who have
actively contributed, especially packagers and blog-writers.

Have fun,
Marcus





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Re: tangoGPS and good user experience

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:01:23 +0200
Gilles Filippini  wrote:

> Timo Juhani Lindfors a écrit , Le 11/04/2010 20:29:
> > Marcus Bauer  writes:
> >> tangoGPS has started with libgps and around version 0.7 switched
> >> away due to too many bugs. What finally triggered the switch was
> >> the fact that it didn't deliver the altitude due to a bug. As the
> >> most important data of a GPS is position, speed and altitude I
> >> considered libgps either unmaintained or with a massive lack of
> >> quality control.
> > 
> > You should report these bugs. When I talked to gpsd upstream they
> > were not aware of the problems.
> 
> BTW I've found gpsd upstream very responsive each time I've submitted
> a bug to them.

Currently there are 5 different GPS API's

 * gpsd old (pre 2.92)
 * gpsd new
 * Maemo
 * moblin
 * fso

As gpsd just dropped its own dbus interface and maemo plus moblin will
be meego, it would be great if gpsd would implement the meego dbus
interface, thus unifying the various APIs.

Doing this, the addition of more fine grained GPS power management
would be great: many gps chipsets support a low power mode. For example
SIRFIII chips can switch to a 5mW mode with a fix every 10secs (good
enough for walking) and the normal mode at 50mW with a continous fix.

With a 1000mW battery this means either 20 hours or 200 hours...

Last not least do all chips nowadays support AGPS - would be great to
have that in gpsd too.

Marcus














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tangoGPS magnify patch

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 23:06:48 -0400
Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:

> > > I have a patch that makes it possible to scale the details on maps
> > > (e.g.: text, icons, line-widths) and change the amount of detail
> > > shown without zooming the map; 
> > 
> 
> So, when you select `fewer, bigger details', the code just decreases
> *pixel-density* and a `zoom-level offset' adjusted accordingly.
> The map remains at the same zoom-level; but the text and icons get
> bigger, the streets and other lines get wider; the amount of
> visual `clutter' decreases, and information-clarity goes up.
> 
> If you select `more, smaller details', the pixel-density is increased
> and the zoom-offset adjusted in the other direction. Again, the map
> remains at the same zoom-level; but the text and icons get smaller,
> the streets and other lines become thinner; the amount of information
> visible at a given zoom-level (the information-density) increases.

This patch is potentially interesting on the Freerunner due to the 3x
higher dpi of the screen. The patch makes future extensions for layers,
non-merkatoor and no wgs84 more error prone and therefore currently is
not suitable for tangoGPS. However, you can ask the packagers of SHR
etc. if they are interested in inclusion.

Marcus

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tangoGPS and good user experience

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:06:12 +0300
Timo Juhani Lindfors  wrote:

> Currently I only have a set of patches that add support for libgps.

tangoGPS has started with libgps and around version 0.7 switched away
due to too many bugs. What finally triggered the switch was the fact
that it didn't deliver the altitude due to a bug. As the most important
data of a GPS is position, speed and altitude I considered libgps
either unmaintained or with a massive lack of quality control.

What really counts is user experience and the maintainer of gpsd is
not willing to play with others. There is probably 4 or 5 major
projects using it and he didn't bother to communicate his API changes.

However great the new API may be, users of tangoGPS care about getting
the position - either it works or it does not. gpsd introduced breakage
for several downstream projects between 2.90 and 2.92. This was
announced in the man page...

All that counts for a tangoGPS user is to reliably get the position.
IMHO gpsd is much too erratic to support and one of the next releases
will allow direct access to the serial port too. The additional plus on
hardware like openmoko is that it saves another 50% of CPU when running
tangoGPS without gpsd, due to the inefficiency of gpsd.

That said, thanks for your bug report on the debian bugzilla because I
wasn't aware of it!

Marcus

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qualitiy is important for tangoGPS

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 16:29:15 +0200
Sander van Grieken  wrote:
> No. Just email your patches to Marcus Bauer. Expect no reply nor use
> of patches.
> 
> But, you don't have the right to complain. You have the right to
> fork, though.

Well, looks like you are a bit upset that your patch was not accepted
but quality is important for the longterm success of tangoGPS.

Criteria for software quality are (amongst others):

 * correctness (i.e. bug free)
 * maintainability
 * robustness

Your patch about speed-up is very invasive in core parts of
tangoGPS, was not well documented, not minimalistic and introduced
several bugs. In general it falls in the category of premature
optimisation which will cause enhancements like other map datums as
WGS84 or other projections as Merkatoor significantly more difficult
and error prone.

There is plenty of documentation about how to contribute to open source
projects and my advice is to check that first.

Another idea is to start your own project - look at the various
appstores, there a plenty of great ideas. 

As you already stated, tangoGPS is GPL'd, thus certainly if a packager
of SHR or any other distribution wants to include your patch, that is
certainly possible, no problem there.


Best regards,
Marcus









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tangoGPS is a very successful user orienteted map and gps viewer

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 09:59:04 -0400
Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:

> > tangoGPS has a community of more than
> > 100.000 users, of more than 25 distributions, of people packaging
> > it, people twittering about it, people blogging about it, people
> > discussing it in forums...
> > 
> > The tangoGPS friendservice has been used almost half a million
> > times and the messaging is frequently used too.
> > 
> > There has been an article on Linux.com about tangoGPS and another
> > one in the Linux Magazine.
> > 
> > I'd say the tangoGPS community is bigger than the openmoko
> > community :-P
> 
> 
> Having a large, thriving end-user community *is* excellent, and also
> important--so I'd like to both congratulate you and thank you for that
> accomplishment!

You are more than welcome! User orientation has always been key for
tangoGPS development and has been driving my commitment for over 2500h
of development and subsequently one of the single largest contributions
to the openmoko ecosystem of a free phone.

tangoGPS has grown much beyond openmoko today and was just recently
featured as the GPS software of choice on the Always Innovating
Touchbook. Important part of that is unparalleled speed on embedded
platforms, ease of use and an uncluttered user-centric interface.

An important objective of the development is excellent quality
assurance for best user experience. Each single release is preceded
with a period of intensive testing resulting in a almost zarro bugs.

These high standards are inherently key for the success of tangoGPS and
I am commited to keep the standards on this level. Good quality patches
that improve the user expericence and take into account that tangoGPS
runs on plenty of platforms is highly welcome.

A last word of wisdom, Joshua: have a look into the appstores of the
iphone or android. There are thousands of apps already and several cool
ones that would be nice to have on openmoko. Start a project and bring
it to success.

Best regards,
Marcus










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Re: OM future

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:14:39 -0500
"Iain B. Findleton"  wrote:

> Does anybody out there know what the financial envelope for, say, a
> run of 100 Neos with the accumulated hardware improvements, g3, and
> double the memory would be? I am thinking a custom application here...

if you do considerable changes to the hardware -and adding 3g is
considerable- you need to recertify it (FCC, CE etc.). you should have
roughly 1.000.000$ loose change in your pockets.

unless your customer is rms, you might consider other options...

marcus 


> 
> I also suspect that a faster processor and support for higher capacity
> SD cards could be nice.
> 
> Gerald A wrote:
> > Heya,
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Radek Polak  > > wrote:
> >
> > On Tuesday 23 February 2010 10:05:31 Mike Crash wrote:
> >
> > > We can create a phone as a next step in the future, but not
> > > now.
> > This is a
> > > very bad idea.
> >
> > I cant agree. I have N770 which is great PDA. If Neo was just
> > PDA i would
> > never bought it.
> >
> >
> > I agree 100%. I have a few different Palms, which were much cheaper
> > then the Neo. It was the vision that inspired me, and I'm sure will
> > inspire others.
> >  
> >
> > Neo is very nice piece of hardware. But the hardware needs some
> > fixes. I think
> > gta-core project does exactly what is needed. If it had better
> > case and design
> > (or you could choose from alternative cases - e.g. white color
> > for girls and
> > women) and if it was cheap, it could be quite successful phone.
> >
> >
> > While I agree that aesthetics are a factor, at this point the
> > community should focus on
> > making something sustainable. If the stuff under the hood is good,
> > we'll attract case
> > mods, and they can put cool cases around our good hardware. 
> >
> > I also think gta-core is on the right track. It just needs to keep
> > moving forward, and
> > we'll eventually be successful.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Gerald.
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >   
> 
> 
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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:00:20 +
Neil Jerram  wrote:

> On 6 January 2010 11:11, Neil Jerram 
> wrote:
> >
> > line.  (I plan to make a donation shortly.)
> 
> Finally getting around to this - but I don't see a Donate button
> anywhere on the tangogps website.  Is there a donation mechanism?
> 
> Thanks,
>   Neil

Hello Neil,

So far I have added the donation button occasionally under the release
notes but now I have added one to the left sidebar.

Best regards,
Marcus

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Re: tangoGPS 0.99.3 is out

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:44:00 +
Juergen Schinker  wrote:

> awesome work! can you supply also the pkg for hackable:1 please.

Afaik David 'Deubeuliou' is already working on it and it should be
apt-get installable in the next two or three days.


> Can you also supply a clear all msg button?

Yes, there is definitely a need for a solution for this...

Marcus

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Re: tangogps google satellite url

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:42:13 +0100
Yorick Moko  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a happy tangogps user, but it seems like google changed their
> satellite url once again.
> for google maps I use
> http://mt0.google.com/vt/v=w2.97&hl=nl&x=%d&y=%d&z=%d&s=G
> and this one still works
> 
> could someone be so kind to give me the correct url for the satellite
> images?
> (for testing purposes only of course)

you can use firebug to easily figure out the url of an image. usually
only the version number changes. a quick check reveals that it is now
at v=55. if you keep older version numbers, the servers will refuse the
request.

marcus

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tangoGPS 0.99.3 is out

[Marcus Bauer]

Hi,

tangoGPS is out with lots of speed improvements and a lot less of CPU
usage.

Moreover the speed display is now set in pixels and no longer in
points  - especially on SHR that should result in lot smaller digits.
(not configurable yet).


Enjoy,

Marcus

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Re: Quick e-mail poll: Still using your Freerunner?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:33:03 +1100
Neil Brown  wrote: 
> The recent innovation of compiling the kernel with the go-slow straps
> removed has had a significant improvement on my experience.  Now if
> only I could figure out why the gprs is not reliable I'd be on my way
> to being happy.

I have never tested GPRS for more than 12 hours but I always felt that
it was rocking stable, keeping the connection while moving around. At
least on hackable1, rev4 which basically is Debian Lenny.

But then maybe your phone is unhappy because it expects your to run SuSE
on it ;-)

Marcus (who -for the records- used SuSE before they had version numbers
and were simply called November 1994, coming in ugly brown boxes with
some green thingy on them)

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Re: Some questions about TangoGPS

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:01:22 +0330
dehqan65  wrote:
> Anyway some questions remained :
> 
> 1 - There is an option that lets tangogps users selecting using
> Google sat maps , but some problems :
> 
> A - Is not using google maps under TangoGPS against google's EULA ?

You have to ask a lawyer for that. And the more lawyers you ask, the
more opinions you will get.

I am not a lawyer. But tangoGPS uses its name as user
agent, i.e. it does not disguise as Internet Explorer or Firefox. So
simply from a practical point of view Google can block it easily.

As long as tangogps users are less than 0.01% of the traffic I
guess they wont bother.

And if you start downloading larger areas you quickly get a 24 hour
penalty...

In any case I am sure they have tuck loads of excellent lawyers :-)


> B - Quality of pictures (Google maps) in Tangogps is not the same as
> Google apps . for example check this
> locationin
> both .
> Maybe this is cause of the differnece between maps.google.com and
> http://khm.google.com/ pictures ??

No difference here for that very location. And I never saw any
difference elsewhere.


> C - Google app shows street names with an option "show label" . Can
> not Tangogps get that layer in the same way it get pictures ?

Currently no.

> 2 - How to download a part of earth (city/country) maps with zoom
> level 15 (500/1000 meter height) ?

Zoom to the area you need and click on the map. Choose the last entry
in the pop-up menu and follow the instructions.

Regards,
Marcus


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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

Hi Joseph, 

thanks for your words, they are very much appreciated!

Marcus

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 23:48:54 +
Joseph Reeves  wrote:

> > I have founded tangogps and spent over 2000 hours of development on
> > it so quite naturally I am the SABDFL of tangogps. And it is a
> > rather successful project: it has been picked up by over 25
> > distributions and it has far more than 100.000 happy users in
> > pretty much every corner of the world.
> 
> I honestly believe that if it wasn't for TangoGPS, and therefore
> yourself Marcus, the initial uptake of the Openmoko devices would have
> been much slower. This community owes a great deal to your hard work.
> OpenStreetMap has probably benefited too as well. TangoGPS
> demonstrated that the Neo1973 and FreeRunner were (are) viable
> platforms and that there was (is) value to be gained from a phone
> running Open Source software. By "demonstrated" I mean that you could
> give the phone to someone, have them walk around outside, and they'd
> come back excited about what could be done.
> 
> I remember getting an engineering sample of the FreeRunner and having
> many email conversations with Markus about getting TangoGPS to run on
> it. It wasn't exactly hard, but I was known to make a mistake or two
> along the way; at least in the end TangoGPS was about the first
> application I ran on the FreeRunner and I was, I think, the first
> person to ever do it. Thankfully Openmoko inc saw the value and sent
> Marcus a phone too.
> 
> Thanks for all your contributions Marcus, we all owe you a lot, even
> if some people fail to realise that.
> 
> Cheers, Joseph
> 

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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 09:12:45 +0100
Laszlo KREKACS  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Marcus Bauer
>  wrote:
> > On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 23:36:21 +0200
> > "Risto H. Kurppa"  wrote:
> >
> >> The community shall be the judge and point me where did I go wrong.
> >
> > The community did already: Risto Kurppa, you have been sending me
> > your massively abusive emails after the release of 0.9.3. They were
> > so far beyond anything acceptable that I
> >
> >  a) got a lawyer in Helsinki to deal with you and
> >  b) informed the Ubuntu Community Council.
> 
> I think it was nothing else just a desperate try to build a
> community around tangogps

I probably repeat myself: open source / free software is build upon a
meritocracy. The more you contribute, the more influence you do have.
And actually in one way or other it is pretty much everywhere in life
like this. 

If you haven't shown any regular support of a project or group than
common sense should tell you that you wont be accepted as community
manager. Freenode has exactly for that the policy that only people
affiliated with a project can register project channels. And freenode is
the core of many communities.

> as apparently you failed to do it.

Ah, allrighty! It is just that tangoGPS has a community of more than
100.000 users, of more than 25 distributions, of people packaging it,
people twittering about it, people blogging about it, people discussing
it in forums...

The tangoGPS friendservice has been used almost half a million times and
the messaging is frequently used too.

There has been an article on Linux.com about tangoGPS and another one in
the Linux Magazine.

I'd say the tangoGPS community is bigger than the openmoko community :-P
 
Now let's compare that to Risto Kurppa, who wrote in his mail two days
ago: "In co-operation with the Open Source Geospatial Foundation I
started a mailing list to discuss FOSS-GPS related topics to connect
the users & developers:".

This sounds good, no politician could say it any better. But if you
look into the list archive you see that there are three positing in the
last month:

http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/foss-gps/2009-December/date.html

Not exactly a vibrant community that he has created in over a year. "In
co-operation with the Open Source Geospatial Foundation..." BlaBla.

Talk is cheap. It needs sustained work and commitment to get a community
of the ground.


> Risto was and are a very active mailing list member, had some
> very useful comments here, what I think many users
> appreciated.

Which is no excuse for misbehaviour.

> I do believe there was some small misunderstanding in
> your email exchanges.

Certainly not. The Ubuntu Community Council didn't take it lightly
either.

> As for the lawyer part, Im really sorry, you needed hire a lawyer
> in a foreign country. I hope you didnt spent to much money on
> it and also I hope you enjoyed the trip to Helsinki.
> 
> However I usually dont hire any lawyers, if I receive some spams
> in my inbox. But everyone are free to do in his/her way.

That's exactly what I do too with spam. However Risto Kurppa didn't
leave me any choice. He set a deadline until which I have to respond to
him or elsewise he would go public with his diffamations. And yet I'd
still drop this kind of email into the spam folder but next day he
showed up on planet ubuntu and at this point the fun ends. That guy
simply didn't stop and that's when I notified the Ubuntu Community
Council and contacted a lawyer -- btw, they have phones in Helsinki
nowadays, no need to go there.

A word about the "usage of lawyers": they are a lot more useful (and
cheaper) for getting legal advice than for sueing somebody. It is a
good idea to go and get early advice with precise questions than to wait
until a situation is out of control. By definition and statistics they
have a success rate of 50:50 when they sue. -- How was that with
throwing a coin?


Marcus






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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 23:36:21 +0200
"Risto H. Kurppa"  wrote:

> The community shall be the judge and point me where did I go wrong.

The community did already: Risto Kurppa, you have been sending me your
massively abusive emails after the release of 0.9.3. They were so far
beyond anything acceptable that I 

 a) got a lawyer in Helsinki to deal with you and
 b) informed the Ubuntu Community Council.

The Ubuntu Community Council consists of experienced and well
respected members of the open source community and the council was very
concerned about your behaviour, Risto Kurppa. The reply was written by a
certain well known 'Mark Shuttleworth' from which I guess I can cite the
following quote:

 | Thanks for raising this with us. The language he has used is very
 | unfortunate, it does come across as "I will embarrass you unless you
 | respond the way I want you to", and that's not something we could
 | support in an Ubuntu member.

I have nothing to add to that.

The fact that you have registered #tangogps on freenode against the
policy that only people affiliated with the project shall register a
channel and after your inadequate behaviour in the past is thus pure
provocation.

Open source / free software is a meritocracy - the more you do for a
project the more you can influence it. Actually writing friendly emails
gains everyone quickly influence. Writing abusive emails like you
did to me a year ago, Risto Kurppa, certainly does not gain you
influence. 

I have founded tangogps and spent over 2000 hours of development on it
so quite naturally I am the SABDFL of tangogps. And it is a rather
successful project: it has been picked up by over 25 distributions and
it has far more than 100.000 happy users in pretty much every corner of
the world.

Just have a look how many projects are on sourceforge that are 0.0.1
alpha and never took off. I'd say less than 5% of the projects come to
life and stay alive for more than 2 years. It needs dedication, energy
and cojones to get a project off the ground. And a good deal of the
ernergy comes from people using it, from people sending feedback, from
people spreading the word because they like it.

Thanks to all those that have one way or other contributed to tangoGPS
- your energy was and is well appreciated and put to good use :)


Marcus Bauer
Developer of tangoGPS - the fast and user friendly map viewer
http://www.tangogps.org/





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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:58:42 -0800 (PST)
vancel35  wrote:

> Marcus Bauer wrote:
> > 
> >> I've looked inside the TangoGPS config file
> >> (~.gconf/apps/tangogps/%gconf.xml), but I couldn't see any options
> >> to set the font size.
> > 
> I was in vi, and if I don't change anything, I always do a :q! to lose
> anything that might have accidentally changed. 

On the desktop gconf-editor is a good tool for editing keys. On the
freerunner it pulls in too many dependencies and doesn't fit well on
the screen.

> Did you change anything in the position / speed algorithm?  It
> doesn't seem to have as much jitter when stopped as it did before.

At one point I added some code to prevent it from updating when the
speed hasn't changed to prevent the flickering. But that was already a
few releases ago.

> Keep up the good work.  TangoGPS is an awesome program. :)

Thanks :)

Marcus



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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 18:50:49 +0800
William Kenworthy  wrote:

> On the FR in landscape mode, the digits (at anything over 100km/h -
> (spent two long days travelling at ~110km/h speed recently!) take up
> almost a quarter of the screen (in X and Y) - I just tried with the
> suggested patch/change and a global_font_scale of "40" was still a bit
> large.  "30" is perhaps a touch small (text height is the same as the
> buttons), but I'll live with it for awhile and see how it goes.

Can you put up somewhere a screenshot or send me one? It really differs
from distro to distro...

> One plus, the display updates are now smooth and almost unnoticeable -
> before the screen would often partially update and then catch up a
> couple of seconds later.
> 
> The changing to red at 50km/h affects the visibility of the digits at
> the smaller sizes and is a pretty useless thing anyway (our limit is
> 110kmh in the country, 60 on city roads and 50 in backstreets so you
> hardly ever/rarely stay in the black zone - kinda defeats the
> purpose!). A presettable limit would be nice.

Ah yes. I have totally forgotten about it. I can add that in too.

Marcus

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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 10:52:13 +0200
"Risto H. Kurppa"  wrote:

> As there are now many Tangogps patches that seem to struggle to get to
> the official tangogps 

Stop your FUDing, Risto. There is a great video about poisonous people
on google lectures made by the devs of svn and you, Risto, are certainly
one of them.

Not enough that you have been harrassing me in private mails to a point
that I was close to stop development on tangoGPS you have now hijacked
#tangogps in freenode against the policies of freenode.net.

You haven't done anything for tangogps but molesting me and spreading
FUD where ever possible. You haven't even done a translation which
needs no programming skills whatsoever.

It is poisous people like you who only talk and demand in an
offensive way but never do anything.

You have aggressed me when I put the donate button on the website but
rest assured I have got less dontations overall than Dr. Lauer has
earned in one single week while working for openmoko. And yet tangogps
is apart from the phone functions the most used app on the Freerunner.

It is poisonous people like you who make developers turn their back to
open source / free software. Nobody likes to constantly being pissed on.

But luckily there are many people who appreciate all the work that
developers of open source / free software do for them. The countless
hours they spend without being paid. The idealism and the motivation
they have.

tangoGPS today is what it is because of it users. Because of those
users that appreciate it. Because of those users who send in their
friendly feedback. Because of those users who do an effort of getting
it to run on an older version of an eeePC. Because of packagers doing a
great job of packaging it. Because of translators translating it.
Because of people writing their experiences with it. Because of people
donating 5$ for buying me a virtual pizza.


Marcus








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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 12:10:21 +0800
Bill  wrote:

> I gave feed back to Martin that the digits were too large (the
> tangogps developer)

Hi Borat, I will tell Martin once I meet him :p

> but the
> digits keep getting bigger each version (it seems :(

They got smaller. I may change them from point to pixel size so they
remain the same indepentenly of changing screen dpi settings of the
distribution.


Marcus

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Re: TangoGPS font size for speed indicator

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:39:53 -0800 (PST)
vancel35  wrote:

> 
> I've noticed that each version that I've upgraded of TangoGPS has
> increased the font size for the speed display on the map screen.

Nope. I just had a quick look: it was 72pt in the beginning and now is
at 60pt since version 0.9.8.


> I've looked inside the TangoGPS config file
> (~.gconf/apps/tangogps/%gconf.xml), but I couldn't see any options to
> set the font size.

You should never fiddle with a text editor anything in ~/.gconf  - bad
things may happen.

I'll add an option for configuring it.

Regards,
Marcus

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Re: tangogps 0.99.1

[Marcus Bauer]

Hi Vasco,

On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:13:22 +
Vasco Névoa  wrote:

> Hi Marcus and all others.
> Is there a way to remove or make smaller the speed indicator (big 
> numbers) on tangogps?

I'll make that configurable in one of the next versions of tangoGPS.

> I find it very irritating and it does cover a large portion of the
> screen...

That is due to a suboptimal dpi setting of your screen. The fact that
the screen is physically 285dpi does not mean that the Xserver has to
be set to this value - I guess nobody is professionally using the Neo
as a CAD front end. 

For a normal user the right size is a mix between screen dpi and
distance of the screen to the eye. The Freerunner's screen dpi is very
high but you will roughly hold it half an arm length away from your
eyes while your desktop monitor will be about twice that far away.

Taking this into account a dpi setting of ~140-150 will result in a
well readable 10-12pt font. But instead some distributions chose to use
silly values like 3.5 for the terminal font which result in device
dependent settings.

Compare it to a huge billboard advertising: they are printed with very
low dpi but due to the much larger viewing distance this is compensated.

tangoGPS is made to be device independent and given reasonable values
it should always display well.


> Also, while you're at it, the numbers on the scale (bottom
> left corner) have non-transparent background and this covers up a
> little of the map and most of the scale ruler.

This is the same problem, some distributions have insane settings for
the dpi which makes the font appear too big.

> Just a note. ;)

All righty, I'll make it configurable :^)

> Cheers,
> Vasco.


Regards,
Marcus

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Re: Navigation

[Marcus Bauer]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:03:01 +0100
Fox Mulder  wrote:

> So if something should be changed, than it should be tangogps and
> allother apps that uses png files to use a vector format like navit
> does which is way better for this purpose.

Yes, and the earth is flat too ;-)

As it was already pointed out in this thread navit uses vector data and
tangogps uses bitmap data.

Vector data allows for calculation of a route. As long as you use only
very basic data it is more space efficient. If you add terrain data
like opencyclemap[1] or maps-for-free[2] then you have quickly many
times more data and on-the-fly rendering on an embedded device becomes
impossible. 

Using bitmap data means it is fast because you only need to display data
while a fast computer has been doing a nice rendering.

Another example: in Italy there is currently the import of houses going
on, i.e. you get a good idea of the streets with the bitmaps while you
get emptiness with the vector data[3].

tangogps is far superior in speed, quality of maps and choice of maps.
However in-car navigation is currently not its purpose. But for hiking
or cycling it offers much better map data.

Marcus

[1]http://opencyclemap.org/?zoom=13&lat=47.46438&lon=9.55192&layers=B000
[2]http://maps-for-free.com
[3]http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.07332&lon=13.23026&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF


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Re: tangogps 0.99.1

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:19:01 +0100
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak  wrote:

> And SHR unstable users can already just do "opkg update && opkg
> upgrade" to get new TangoGPS :)
> 


I am impressed! :)


Marcus

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tangogps 0.99.1

[Marcus Bauer]

Hi out there,

the latest release of tangoGPS is out. New features include:

 * a revamped layout - better usage of screen estate on the Freerunner
   and much nice layout on netbooks and laptops

 * route tracks - you can now fetch route tracks from the web using
   three different webservices


I have made a ARM EABI binary (only the binary, not a package).

The full news with screenshots on http://www.tangogps.org/


Have fun!

Marcus


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tangoGPS 0.9.9 (was Re: tangogps 0.9.8)

[Marcus Bauer]

fixed and as a goodie GPX track load added

Marcus


On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:08:29 -0500
Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:

> "Maksim 'max_posedon' Melnikau"  writes:
> >
> > SHR version (mrmoku/unstable feed) segfaults for me, on try to
> > download map (4 levels):
> [...]
> > *** timer_tile_download():
> > *** timer_tile_download():
> > *** timer_tile_download():
> > *** timer_tile_download():
> > Segmentation fault
> 
> I'm seeing a segfault on line #370 of gps_functions.c (in
> set_label()); it seems to coincide with the end of map-download, in
> at least some configurations (I can reproduce it if I disable
> auto-download), so this may be what you're seeing:
> 
> There's a buffer-overflow problem that results in the `label70'
> pointer being overwritten with what's supposed to be text-data
> (and ends up being a garbage pointer) because the `buffer' variable
> (actually named "buffer" :)) is not always big enough to hold the text
> that's being g_sprintf'd into it.
> 
> As a quick hack, you can try just making the buffer bigger, but it may
> be a better solution to use g_strdup_printf() instead of g_sprintf()
> (and remembering to g_free() the resulting pointer when done with
> it, of course!).
> 

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Re: (patch) new feature for tangoGPS: detail-scaling

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:30:02 +0100
Yorick Moko  wrote:

> please also sent your patches to Marcus Bauer (the author of TangoGPS)

Joshua did already - I am just sitting on a big pile of backlog email.

Regards,
Marcus

> 
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi everybody,
> >
> > I've added a feature to my copy of tangoGPS, and thought that others
> > might be interested: it allows the *details* in the map (e.g.: text,
> > icons) to be scaled up (to show fewer details, but make the shown
> > details bigger) or scaled down (to render the details smaller, but
> > show more of them).
> >
> > This has made tangoGPS *much* more usable for me on my FreeRunner,
> > because I can actually read the labels for streets, etc. without
> > holding the screen very close to my face :)
> >
> > (I guess that the OpenStreetMap tiles are rasterised expecting
> > something like 96 DPI, but the FreeRunner's display runs at ~280
> > DPI, so text and icons used in OSM tiles is *very* small when
> > displayed on the FreeRunner without any upsampling; `zooming the
> > details' by 1 level makes everything legible at arm's length, and
> > zooming the details by 2 levels makes the text easy to read even at
> > a glance while driving).
> >
> > I've attached 2 separate patches: one patch that adds the `back end'
> > of the feature (a new `global_detail_zoom' variable with the
> > corresponding gconf hooks, and some minor-changes to the
> > tile-loading code), and another patch that adds the front-end GUI
> > for the feature (an additional submenu in the map screen, and a
> > couple of new callbacks to accompany the new menu-items).
> >
> > I added the submenu and menu-items manually in interface.c--it looks
> > like Marcus is using Glade to maintain the GUI, but I'm not entirely
> > sure (I didn't see glade-file in the tarball...); if he still *is*
> > using Glade, then it may make more sense to defined these submenus
> > via Glade.
> >
> > --
> > Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >

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Re: tangogps 0.9.8

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 12:49:43 +0100
Michal Brzozowski  wrote:

> 2009/11/2 Marcus Bauer 
> 
> >
> > I have currently no working OE here and there are now too many
> > distribs. However, you can try the armel.deb. Just extract the
> > tangogps binary from the .deb (do it on your desktop/laptop) and
> > copy it to your Neo.
> >
> > The necessary steps are:
> >
> > cd /tmp
> > wget http://www.tangogps.org/downloads/tangogps_0.9.8-1_armel.deb
> > ar -x tangogps_0.9.8-1_armel.deb
> > tar xfvz data.tar.gz
> > scp /tmp/usr/bin/tangogps to_your_phone
> >
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> 
> I tried the above and get this error. Do you know where to find that
> lib?
> 
> r...@om-gta02 ~ $ tangogps
> tangogps: error while loading shared libraries: libcurl-gnutls.so.4:
> cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

In Debian it is libcurl3-gnutls. But tangoGPS does not use any TLS
functions, thus as a hacky quick fix I guess you could even set a
symbolic link to to libcurl.so.4 or maybe even libcurl.so.3 in /usr/lib.



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Re: tangogps 0.9.8

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:41:22 +0100
Pieter Colpaert  wrote:

> Hi Markus,
> 
> Thanks for the update. Do you have an ipk/opk file yet? On your
> website it says version 0.9.5.

I have currently no working OE here and there are now too many
distribs. However, you can try the armel.deb. Just extract the tangogps
binary from the .deb (do it on your desktop/laptop) and copy it to your
Neo.

The necessary steps are:

cd /tmp
wget http://www.tangogps.org/downloads/tangogps_0.9.8-1_armel.deb
ar -x tangogps_0.9.8-1_armel.deb
tar xfvz data.tar.gz
scp /tmp/usr/bin/tangogps to_your_phone


Marcus

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tangogps 0.9.8

[Marcus Bauer]

Hello,

a new version of tangoGPS is out. Most notably are:

 * a fix for a potential segfault in the overzoom code (spotted by
   Joshua Judson Rosen)

 * if started in landscape mode the layout is optimized (toolbar
   vertical) which is nice both on the neo as well as on a laptop

 * you can send messages to other users if the have 0.9.8 too - if you
   are on GPRS that's a lot cheaper than SMS. In any case it is a fun
   little feature and can be quite handy at times

As always, find it a http://tangogps.org/

Have fun!

Marcus



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Re: tangogps 0.9.7 release

[Marcus Bauer]

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:49:51 +0200
Thomas Zimmermann  wrote:

> Hi,
> i tried tangogps 0.9.7 on SHR today and it segfaults on zooming. So i
> assume that the runtimedepencies changed. Can you announce the
> runtimedepencies for it?

No dependency changes. There is a multiple unref of a pixbuf, I got a
patch from Joshua Rosen which fixes it. Will be in the next release -
can't promise to make one this weekend though.

Speaking of segfaults, there have been multiple reports from SHR users
about segfaults when editing or adding repos. I added some additional
check in 0.9.7 and would like to know if this has helped - I have no
SHR here for testing.

Marcus

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Re: tangogps 0.9.7 release

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:31:10 +1200
Robin Paulson  wrote:

> 2009/9/22 Alexander Lehner :
> > I'm not sure whether the gpx import is part of tangogps by default.
> > I once wrote a hacked version that did that.
> >
> > In fact it was not a real XML parser, but only a stupid lookup of
> > strings, so if it doesn't work any more, it would be easy to make
> > that work again.
> 
> if anyone is interested in an xml parser, to convert gpx to tangogps
> format, a friend and i wrote a xslt parser a few months back. see here
> for more info:
> 
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/TangoGPS#Importing_Tracks_into_tangoGPS


Yep, I got some more requests for this, so expect it to appear soon.
I'll most likely go with libxml for its versatility - unless it adds
too much start up time penalty.

@Alexander: if you want, send me your patch.


Cheers,
marcus






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Re: tangogps 0.9.7 release

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:38:00 +0200
Michael Zanetti  wrote:

> Sometimes, when I use tangogps for "navigating" I end up in areas not
> yet mapped on OSM. In that case it would be great to be able to store
> the current track afterwards if the Track logging has not been
> started before. Currently TangoGPS throws away the current track
> information if one presses "Start Logging".

Hello Michael,

This is internally a different data structure in order to save memory,
lacking time, speed and altitude information.

You may instead always have the track logging switched on - so you will
always have all information. And maybe in twenty years time it is funny
to see where you were ;)

Marcus

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tangogps 0.9.7 release

[Marcus Bauer]

Heya out there!

First of all thanks for the many positive emails I got over the last
months, motivating me to bring a new release of tangoGPS to the coolest
open hardware gadget on earth - the openmoko phone.

The new features include:

 * overzoom until level 20
 * upscaling of missing tiles
 * a map scale indicator
 * overhauled "this point" function
   - easy measuring of distances and ways
   - display of bearing = useful for navigation
 * friend function simplified and you can now add a message
   to your position


As always, it runs well on your laptop/netbook too. The full release
announcement is here:

 http://www.tangogps.org/gps/cat/News

I am currently looking for cool stories/photos/blog entries for
featuring on the website. Thus send me your stories, pictures or links
- be it on the Freerunner or any other device.

Have fun!
Marcus








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Re: tangogps + geocaching (DL-link inside)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Thu, 28 May 2009 17:05:06 +0200
Stefan Fröbe  wrote:

> Don't get me wrong here:
> I still think Marcus as the developer of TangoGPS is the best person
> to discuss all this with - I do not intend to fork or maintain any
> separate version, nor do I recommend to do so by any means!

Yep, I have been a bit busy lately but am still actively working on
tangoGPS. The additions from Stefan are really nice and fun to play
with and are pretty much on the top of my list.

Those of you who have been following the development of tangogps know
that I barely announce things before they are there. I rather sit down
and do it. Just have a look how many projects are on sourceforge with
big announcements and after years they are still pre-alpha...

I have spent a lot of time too on looking for hardware - something
sunlight readable and bigger than 2,8". Just today came the catalog
from digi-key, 2600 pages of electronics parts. Not yet sure which kind
of mods are possible.

In any case, I am alive and development goes on and I am currently
working through my mail back-log ;)

Stay tuned,
Marcus


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Re: Visit at Openmoko

[Marcus Bauer]

A *BIG*, no a *HUGE* thank you to all the openmoko employees who worked
these last years without ever being in the spot light but nevertheless
doing a great job!!!

All the best for your future, Openmoko would not have been possible
without you. You have opened new horizions and I am sure the future
will prove the concept was right but ahead of its time...

Thanks again for a great job,

  Marcus Bauer, tangoGPS




On Tue, 26 May 2009 01:03:40 +0800
Sven Klomp  wrote:

> On Tuesday 26 May 2009 00:46:27 Thomas White wrote:
> > A not unimportant snippet of information is missing:
> > 
> > How long ago was this?
> 
> I visited them yesterday (25th).
> 
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Re: hackable:1 - new release

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 06 May 2009 08:23:30 +0200
Olivier Berger  wrote:

> Then, I'd very much suggest to update
> http://www.hackable1.org/wiki/Downloads which still points to rev3
> AFAICT.

fixed. thanks for the hint

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Re: hackable:1 - new release

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 5 May 2009 15:09:25 +0200
Vinzenz Hersche  wrote:

> yeah, this release rocks! :D
> 
> just one question.. is it possible to import  vcard and ics-files?
> if it is, its my new favourite :)

We haven't yet looke into it, but it is based on e-d-s and thus there
are already ics and vcard files around and I'm sure there are apps out
there for syncing with evolution.

Otherwise probably a bit of shell/perl/python will do the trick.

Look in ~/.evolution/ for the .ics files journal.ics, calendar.ics,
tasks.ics. The evolution data server must be stopped when you edit them
or it may overwrite them later on.

HTH
Marcus



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Re: hackable:1 - new release

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:56:03 -0700 (PDT)
Tha_Man  wrote:

> There is however one thing that prevents me from using my FR as a
> daily phone (based on rev4-preview):
> http://trac.hackable1.org/trac/ticket/52 ticket #52 . 
> 
> Can you tell me if this bug is well know, if it is already fixed in
> rev4-rc1 or planned to be fixed in the near feature? 

We'll have a look into it this week as some of the devs are meeting.
With a bit of luck it gets squashed in the next ten days.

Marcus

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Re: hackable:1 - new release

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 05 May 2009 15:20:44 +0300
Timo Juhani Lindfors  wrote:

> Marcus Bauer  writes:
> > Currently only the tarball is available. You can get it from the
> > woosh wiki page:
> 
> That has several files that are autogenerated with the glade
> tool. They are not modifiable source code. 

Yes, they are :-) It is just a hint for a developer using glade to not
edit those files because glade simply overwrites them again.

But naturally you can modify them. It is like if there was a comment
"Go and buy a bottle of Coke, now!". You wouldn't have to do that ;-)

There was a discussion on debian-legal not long ago about this very
comment from glade and consensus was that it has no importance.


Regards,
Marcus



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Re: hackable:1 - new release

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 05 May 2009 13:46:49 +0300
Timo Juhani Lindfors  wrote:

> What debian repo should I add to sources.list to get the source code
> of woosh? Neither

Currently only the tarball is available. You can get it from the woosh
wiki page:

http://trac.hackable1.org/trac/wiki/WooshBrowser 

Once I have a few hours of time I will clean and restructure the source
and add it to svn. Most wanted features are finger scroll and text zoom.

Marcus

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hackable:1 - new release

[Marcus Bauer]

Hello Openmoko Community,

a new release of hackable:1 is available! We have been working hard on
ironing out bugs and making it a lot more usable and I am proud to
announce that we have come a long way. Several developers are now using
it as daily phone and internet device - so we are eating our own
dogfood.

hackable:1 now offers phone functionality and sms plus a full PIM suite
consisting of contacts, calendar and todo list manager, plus a
timesheet time tracker application.

For internet use we have added a new browser optimised for small
screens and speed. It is based on webkit and supports javascript and
allows for quick access of all major functions. The Feedreader has been
overhauled and comes with a set of predefined open source feeds to
which you can add more to your personal liking.

The default keyboard is "hackers" keyboard, i.e. for stylus use
with all special characters quickly accessible. This allows for both,
quickly typing an sms as well as using the command line effectively.

hackable:1 is based on Debian Lenny thus 25.000 packages are only an
apt-get far away. Many packages especially for development are
pre-installed - compiler, linker, build tools, dev-libraries are
already there for a quick start into development right on the phone,
just in minutes.


Changes since the last release (rev3)
=

 * plenty of fixes to gsmd and phone-kit
 * finger scroll works well now, no longer unwanted application starts
 * plenty of fixes to the hackers keyboard - no more double key presses
 * fully Lenny based
 * added new browser "woosh"
 * updated feedreader
 * added calendar, todo, gallery
 * well working autorotate
 * and much, much more...


How to install it
=
hackable:1 is running from SD card, thus you can easily check it out as
it wont touch your installation in flash of the phone. Simply untar it
onto a SD card, pop the SD card into the phone and boot from it.

The steps are:
- format a 1GB+ SD card with 8MB fat and the rest ext2
- untar the two tarballs
- boot from the SD card

The detailed steps for installation are here:
http://www.hackable1.org/wiki/Installation


Technology
==
The hackable:1 apps are GTK+ and C for speed, however there is no
restriction. You like qt, e, f or g? You like python, perl or erlang?
Welcome on board, this is open source/free software and freedom is
about choice. Pick your poison! As of now the applications are a
mixture of finger-based and stylus based whichever seems to fit best.


What to expect
==
There will still be bugs. Some apps are not fully optimized for
usability. But it is usable as phone, as PDA and as internet device.
It is a community project, you can easily join, voice your opinion and
add code and applications. The R&D department of Bearstech -the french
distributor of the Openmoko Freerunners- is sponsoring the development,
Bearstech is using it as base for various VAR projects and
subsequently Bearstech wants to give back and is commited to the free
software community.


What does it look like in action

Go to youtube and see yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izww_4Z421g


Have fun!

  Marcus - on behalf of the hackable:1 team and community



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Re: sunlight readable LCD

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:22:24 +0100
Joseph Reeves  wrote:
cal investment required for this? I guess I should go
> google "psp screen linux"...

>From the same company there is another LCD which is transflective and
3,5", the TD035STEE1.

http://www.summitds.com.tw/TPO/eng/business-eng/products&applications-PDA-eng.htm
Probably close in the electrical specs to the currently used LCD.

Note: the LCD module consists of the LCD and the touchscreen, this is
only the LCD.

Marcus 

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sunlight readable LCD

[Marcus Bauer]

Hello list,

Joseph Reeves wrote on his blog about a bicycle app for the Neo [1].

I have always wanted to add cycling / sports functions to tangoGPS but
as the LCD is mostly unreadable in sunlight I felt there is little use.
After trying it a couple of times on my bike I soon started to leave
the Neo at home.

So I wonder about three things for better outdoor use:

1) How many of you would be interested in the following hardware
mods:
 * sunlight readable LCD
 * bigger LCD 3,5"+
 * new ruggedized case or rubber shell (including a mean to nicely fix
in on a bike?)
 * waterproof (substaintially more costs)

2) How much money would you spend on it? To give you an idea: the PSP
display with touchscreen can be bought on ebay for ~25$. A case may be
~20-30$ for volumes of 100+.

3) Last question: are there hardware people interested in
this?

Please reply here on list with your interest!

Marcus

[1]http://blogs.thehumanjourney.net/finds/entry/racing_myself_a_feature_request

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tangoGPS 0.9.5 is out

[Marcus Bauer]

Hello,

a new release of tangoGPS is out. Improvements are:

- better handling of broken NMEA (some people experienced crashers)
- fix for correct lat/lon display for eastern longitudes and southern
  latitudes
- Google has changed their URI scheme thus satellite imagery works now
  too - anyway, there is copyright on them, just use free alternatives
- a cool new default repository is opencycle map
- the whole repository dialog is now overhauled

...and a couple more things.

As usual you can get it at http://www.tangogps.org/

By the way, I will be at FOSDEM and spend some time at the GNOME stand.
Just drop by and say hello.

Have fun
Marcus


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Re: Version 2 -- New community distribution hackable1

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:51:13 +0100
Sascha Wessel  wrote:
> why do we need another distribution? The better solution would be to
> include the packages into debian, isn't it? This way everyone
> benefits.

Technically it is not really another distribution. It is the port of the
GTK phone and PIM suite onto Debian and thus rather close to GNOME
Mobile. thus

 a) it is a home for GTK hackers and C hackers while still open
to C++, Python or whatever else you like
 b) we are stabilizing the platform so that VARs start to see the
Freerunner as a serious base which is good for Openmoko 
 c) we are working on making it usable as a phone which is good
for everybody

 
> One of your goals seems to be the prebuild tarball.

I have done one and a half years of flashing over and over again and
I'm so sick of it ;-)

The tarball is a great way to install in minutes a distribution
without need for dfu-util or problems with servers. Once it is there,
you can upgrade single packages with apt-get.

In any case, flash images will follow.

Marcus

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Re: Version 2 -- New community distribution hackable1

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:20:58 +0100
> quote:
> 
> 
> Current issues
> 
> Messages starts but does not send the message -> minor dbus issue
> if it is minor, do you guys have any idea how long it will take to 
> resolve the issue

Thanks for the hint, this was only about the old rev1. SMS works in the
current rev2.

> and i am confused:
> some of the things you mentioned as features are still in the "open 
> tasks" section of the wiki.
> is the wiki outdated? (i already took a look at the wiki about 10
> days ago).

This got just updated too. Thanks again for the hint.

Marcus

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Re: Version 2 -- New community distribution hackable1

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:27:19 -0500 (EST)
Paul Wouters  wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, Marcus Bauer wrote:
> 
> >  * GPS works out of the box
> 
> > It comes as a tarball, thus you need a 2 GB SD card (SanDisk work
> > well)
> 
> Is the GPS+SD card problem solved yet?

Yes, the fix is in the kernel switching of the SD clock when the card
is idle. I got a fix under rainy sky in the city in 3 minutes.

Marcus


> 
> Paul
> 
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Re: Version 2 -- New community distribution hackable1

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:15:21 +
"Neil Jerram"  wrote:

> 2008/12/17 Marcus Bauer :
> > Hackable:1 is based on the DebianOnFreerunner but packaging the
> > OM2007.2 applications, extending and bugfixing them. It is intended
> > to become a stable platform for the VAR market and fun to use for
> > everybody else.
> 
> Sounds cool!  So, given that I already have Debian on SD, could I just
> 
> - add your repository to /etc/apt/sources.list
> 
> - sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude install
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> If not now, is that a feasible aim for the near future?

Right now there are a couple of things which are not yet in a package,
most notably the X session start. But for a clean future development it
is a necessity that everything sits inside a package and then you can
update directly from debian.

Marcus

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Version 2 -- New community distribution hackable1

[Marcus Bauer]

Hey guys,

fully in the spirit of "release early, release often" we want to
announce hackable:1, a new distribution for the Neo and other hackable
devices.


What is hackable:1 ?


Hackable:1 is based on the DebianOnFreerunner but packaging the
OM2007.2 applications, extending and bugfixing them. It is intended to
become a stable platform for the VAR market and fun to use for
everybody else.

The important part is that hackable:1 is not only open to community
contributions but we are actively encouraging them and we do the full
development in public on IRC channels and mailing lists - no decisions
behind closed doors, no sudden changes of directions. We want to
produce a stable, linearly evoluting platform.

Hackable:1 is running from 2GB SD cards simply because they have
become so cheap that there is little reason to fiddle with the
restrictions of the limited space of the built-in flash. Therefore we
can ship with a full set of development tools ready installed to
get you started with mobile development in minutes. No more need to
wait 20 hours until Openembedded is finished with its set up. No more
need for flashing - but we will also soon provide a flash image for
those of you who need the space on the SD card for other things.

We have a full LAMP stack too, for those countless of you out there who
are more proficient with PHP than C or C++.

Not to forget that you can make phone calls and send SMS... And you can
even print. Get yourself a USB gender changer and connect your printer
to the Neo. It works - beat that all you iPhonies out there! (A gender
changer is just a few dollars on ebay).



Then what have we done so far?
==

Some of the highlights:

 * we packaged OM2007.2 as .deb packages: dialer, sms, contacts, neod,
   phone-kit, gsmd, matchbox, panel applets
 * we improved sound quality (fixes for gsmd for echo cancellation)
 * another fix for gsmd to suppress the reregistering of some phones
   (OM bug #1024)
 * extended the aux and power menus. For example you can now easily
   switch between USB host and device mode or connect to a bluetooth
   keyboard
 * a simple onscreen keyboard with all hacker characters on a short
   press on the AUX button
 * GPS works out of the box
 * switch on and off accelerometer-based autorotate
 * fixed matchbox-windowmanager crash-bug
 * if sms send fails there is now an error dialog
 * many GPRS providers preconfigured for easy use
 * matchbox-stroke is included (it is fun!)
 * preconfigured for GSM multiplexing, i.e. having calls and sms coming
   in during a GPRS session (not activated by default)
 * x2x works out of the box (using your desktop mouse and keyboard on
   the Neo)
 * that battery applet shows plenty of battery info now (you need to
   install the notification-daemon first)


Where do we want to go?
===

First of all: we want to make it a community distribution implementing
(with some freedom) the GNOME Mobile stack. Thus come and join us on
our mailing lists, on IRC #hackable1 on freenode, file bug reports for
enhancements and start to hack yourself. If you have eyes that can
distinguish between more than black, white and orange, and you have
graphical skills, we will be happy for your help to add colors to the
theme!

In general we intend to work closely together with other open source
projects, most notably DebianOnFreerunner where remarkable work has
been done already.



How do you install it?
==

It comes as a tarball, thus you need a 2 GB SD card (SanDisk work well)
and a card reader for your PC / Laptop. You just have to partition and
format the SD card and then simply untar the tarball onto it. Five
minutes and you are done, no lengthy installation process or flashing.
Your flash even remains untouched, so you can easily give it a test run.


About Bearstech
===

Bearstech is a French FLOSS innovation engineering company.
Bearstech is also the French distributor of Openmoko products and  
supporting the efforts of hackable:1 with infrastructure and developers.


You can find everything and involve yourself in:
http://www.hackable1.org

The download is at:
http://www.hackable1.org/hackable1/?C=M;O=D

The installation guide is at:
http://www.hackable1.org/wiki/Documentation


-- The hackable:1 developer team --








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Re: TangoGPS svn/git ?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:31:20 +1300
Glen Ogilvie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> A friend and myself are planning on contribute to TangoGPS.  Looking
> for the git / svn repository we can pull the latest source from?
> Does anyone know if a repository for tangogps exists?  The latest on
> the tangogps.org website is 0.9.3, release in march.

Hi Glen,

the last release was from end of August ;-)

I have the next release ready and will try to get it out this week.
Am still developing tarball only but will switch to GIT and put up
somewhere a repository.

Marcus


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Re: Openmoko Car Holder

[Marcus Bauer]

On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 07:34 +0200, Christoph Seitz wrote:
> I also use the FreeRunner in my Car and I also got a holder for my Bike. :)
> In regions, where OSM has good map data it is really cool.


For the bikers I can really recommend http://opencyclemap.org/ maps.

Marcus


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Re: (Some?) 3G support for Linux from Nokia - relevant for future models?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 05:45 +1000, Lorn Potter wrote:
> I would beg to differ. Trolltech is now part of Nokia, Qt and Qtopia 
> certainly are open source and I can tell you for certain, we are 
> committed to keeping them open source.

I wonder what your plans are for the phone stack? I doubt that you are
going FSO? At least to me this is a big horror as is much of the
Openmoko software development. It is just not clear what the other open
source players are doing? The single most important piece is the gsmd
with muxing capabilities and some kind of stable API. Next important
part is the power management.

Can you publically talk about where you are going?

Best regards,
Marcus


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Re: Navit patch for faster map dragging

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 13:04 +1000, Dale Maggee wrote:
> so I tried:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/share/navit# /etc/init.d/gpsd start
> 
> and got:
> 
> Starting gpsd: No  GPS device, aborting gpsd startup. Check 
> /etc/default/gpsd
The line in /etc/default/gpsd needs to read (for freerunner):

GPS_DEV="/dev/ttySAC1"

Then gpsd should start and tangoGPS too.



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Re: debian and tangogps

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 07:34 +0200, Michael Münch wrote:
> The tangogps.deb in the repository tries to read the gps data from  
> gpsd. Is there a updated .deb somewhere available, that works with FSO?

You best do:
apt-get remove gypsy (or whatever is running there)
apt-get install gpsd


It is a feature of tangoGPS that you can simply connect to any other gps
in the config tab.

This is useful if:

  * you have tangoGPS running on your laptop and you want to use
your Neo or your Nokia N810 as GPS device. Whether you are
connected via USB, wifi or bluetooth, you simply have to go to
the config tab and put in the IP address of the Neo. That's it.
You can try it yourself right now with 82.240.156.91.

  * you want to follow another Neo in real time "James Bond"-style:
just put in the IP of the other Neo. With GPRS prices dropping
this is just cool fun. In case you are behind a firewall, you
just need a one-liner to set up the tunneling.

  * you want to run other gps applications in parallel (gpsdrive,
etc)


Most gps software currently available uses gpsd. The way that FSO has
patched tangoGPS breaks part of its functionality and causes lots of
additional support work for tangoGPS.

The right thing to do instead of patching tangoGPS is to patch gypsy.
This would allow backward compatibility with any other gps application
out there and fix at least some of the design flaws of gypsy.

Best regards,

 - Marcus Bauer
 -- Lead Architect & Developer of tangoGPS















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Re: tangospg and 2008.8 - gui not drawing

[Marcus Bauer]

Hey guys,

thanks for all your interest!!! I'm currently working like crazy and
have a huge mail backlog, so please be patient with me if I don't answer
in a timely manner. 

As with any open source project, well written patches that solve a bug
are always welcome.

Example: Pavel Machek has sent a patch that allows to input the lat/lon
for a POI in serveral different formats in addition to the decimal. Cool
patch, easy to integrate, perfect! [appears in the next version]

Another example: some people sent me shell scripts for converting logs
into KML etc.  This is great too!

Reading and writing mails takes a lot of time and currently my time is
best spent developing the software.

Mailing list, public svn/git whatever will all come in due time.

Things that can be done right now:

  * translate - look into/google for the gettext documentation how
to do this
  * spread the word, write in your blog, send me your pictures,
install it on any
linux/computer/eeePC/ubuntu/debian/gentoo/SUSE/mandriva/box you
can get hold of
  * 


On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 15:57 +0200, Petr Vanek wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:42:42 +0300
> "Risto H. Kurppa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (RHK)
> wrote:
> 
> >I have contacted the developer (not about this though) to ask if there
> >is a svn repo or something for the community to participate. He
> >(Marcus Bauer) answered that there only the source codes of releases
> >are available currently, he's been developing tango only as a local
> >copy.
> >
> >To create a wider user and developer community around tangogps, I've
> >asked him also if it was OK to start a tangogps mailing list to allow
> >users and developers to discuss these things and submit patches to
> >him. No answer yet, I'll let you know when he answers.
> >
> >And is this patch for tangogps or general gtk stuff.. To me it looks
> >it doesn't have much to do with tango..
> 
> I have also emailed Marcus today with similar questions. I think having
> chance in participation would be very nice and i would also love to
> be included. If he replies you please let us know, then we can talk in
> different place as it is quite off topic here.
> cheers
> Petr
> 
> 
> --
> Petr Vaněk
> http://biodynamika.cz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


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RE: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like communityapplications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 11:25 -0700, steve wrote:
>  Bike mount?
> 
>  Or car mount?
> 
>  Guillermo how hard is that?

The rubber skin is cool:
http://www.sureda.org/Portfolio/Electronics/OpenMoko/Accesories/NeoSkin/OpenMoko-NeoSkin-StandardFrame.htm




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Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 16:07 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> 
> 
> I will not reply to comments like these in detail. You would not understand.

Well, we can start calling each other names here - and basically you are
calling me retarded. That's fine with me, but next time do it off list.

As you are the CEO, I'll try to explain my motivation for my emails a
last time:

  * I have spent considerable amounts of time, doing unpaid
development for Openmoko - namely tangoGPS.
  * I feel that the cooperation between Openmoko and its developer
community can be vastly improved, based on the above experience
  * in the french 'silicon valley' (Sophia Antipolis) with 30.000
employees and 1.300 companies there is a similar sentiment

If you think everything is perfect and I just don't and wont understand,
so be it.

Have a nice day anyway, and hopefully many many Neos will be produced

  - Marcus Bauer
  -- developer of tangoGPS


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Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 13:37 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> On 7/29/08 Marcus Bauer wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 15:33 -0700, steve wrote:
> > > > Of course!!! Every toolkit  is allowed.
> > > > 
> > > > The whole point about FSO is to free people to pick their toolkit!
> > 
> > The opposite is true. FSO forces you into ASU. It basically makes all
> > work that has been put into OM2007.2 useless.
> > 
> > Please stop telling these lies.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> You do realize who you are talking to?

This is a childish question.

> This is person in charge of all 
> of marketing for Openmoko. If he says, "the point of something is..." 
> you should understand that he speaks for Openmoko. 

If he would be the pope, then I would understand that he speaks for the
catholic church and when he says "the point of something is..." I would
know he is infallible by definition.

But if the marketing guy (not sales guy as he pointed out) makes wrong
technical statements I have enough authority to correct them. (Simply go
over to Wikipedia and check for the word meritocracy and its connection
to open source.)

And I allow myself to counter your question: Do you realize who *you*
are talking to? 

I am part of your community and I have spent at least four full time
months of development for YOUR system. And opposed to you I am not paid.

If there is someone who should pay respect, how about you paying respect
to me?


> You can say what you 
> want about his ideas. But you have no basis whatsoever to say he's lieing.

FSO has nothing to do with "freeing people to pick their toolkit".
OM2007.2 offers the phonekit and eds (evolution data server). 

Both already allow for dbus abstraction and this whole argument is
stale. OpenedHand (the authors of OM2007.2) knew what they were doing:

"OpenedHand is, IMHO, the most talented open source company in
the world."

Those are your very own words Sean, picked from your website.

> So some respect.

I don't get your point here, Sean. Church-like respect is not what gets
things done. Having dreams is great, but then comes the point where you
need to wake up and deliver.

OM2007.2 is there, just lets use and refine it. 
The Neo Freerunner is there, just lets use and refine it. 
Since November 2006 we hear: "just a few more months".

There is no reason to wait for FSO and seeing how chaotic development
has been the past one and a half years I rather doubt that this will
ever be anything usable. It is a lot more important to get a community
of developers in here and a community of VAR (value added resellers).
And it is a lot more important to build up an ecosystem.

FSO is a questionable approach made by people with no industry
experience, fresh from university. I have to repeat that I would
strongly advise any third party developer to stay away from it.

Revive OM2007.2, spend time, energy and money for building an ecosystem
and get something out that others can build on. *Now*. Not in winter
2008 which then will be probaly summer 2009. Let your pet projects
FSO/ASU run in parallel and once they are there, the world will be
happy.

Do it like the ASUS eeePC. They didn't set out to change the world and
to compete with the MacBook Air. They have a rudimentary Linux System on
it and people love it. Many people even go on with the simple interface
while others reinstall their favourite system.

And yet ASUS started a revolution. Not because they follow their own
vision, but because they let people dream their own dreams.

Sean, on the one hand you talk about empty vessels and museums, on the
other hand fail to realize that it is already there. OM2007.2. Created
by the most talented open source company.

Staying in your metaphor of vessels I want to tell you: it is difficult
to set it on the water and let it go. Don't make the mistake and let it
sit on the dry until it is rotten. It is a venture to get out of your
dreams and into the real world.

Just lets do it.

--
As the Steve (the person without a last name, who is in charge of the
global marketing) has nice book suggestions, I recommend "The
Masterpiece" of Emile Zola. It is about a painter (who bears
biographical similarities with Paul Cezanne) who tries to paint his
masterpiece and never comes to finish it. 





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Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 16:47 +0200, Tilman Baumann wrote:

> Well, i like tangoGPS very much. But it is hardly a comprehensive solution.
> First it's only a tile viewer for online maps. No routing, no offline 
> maps.

I'm a huge Openstreetmap fan but until OSM is ready for routing this
will take at least five more years, probably ten. 

For all practical purposes the tile pre-caching works well. And in some
hindsights tiles are far superior to vector data. Have a look at
maps-for-free terrain or openpistemap terrain maps: no chance to keep
all this data on a mobile device and no chance to generate maps on the
fly, not even with a quad-core desktop CPU.

Actually in most use cases the pre-caching mechanism will save plenty of
storage space.


> And if gpsd is so great, ever wondered why tangoGPS has a button to 
> restart and reconnect gpsd? 

Not because gpsd crashes but because it lets you connect to a different
gpsd elsewhere on the network, i.e. if you do realtime tracking of a
Neo. Or if you simply connect to the test gpsd on 82.240.156.91. Or if
you have tangoGPS running on your laptop and you quickly and without any
hassle want to use the gpsd on your Neo.

> And why i (gta01 user) have to launch gllin via tangoGPS?

Since month there is a script that lets you start gllin on the GTA01
automatically. I haven't used this button since a long time. There was
just on user (Bwalack) who convinced me to keep the button a bit longer.
And he paid for the lunch ;-)

> tangoGPS and OM2007.2 is hardly a comprehensive solution either.

Nope. Can't compete against a TomTom or any other commercial Navi. But
then there is no solution for the Neo: the screen is too small and the
speaker too weak. Nevertheless it is quite often quite handy.

> gypsy - yes
> gpsd - no (at least not as it is, maybe as compat interface)

gpsd works well and gypsy is not network capable. Simply using your
Neo's GPS from your Laptop does not work. And especially for an
application like tangoGPS it is inherently broken: every nav-application
wants to have the raw NMEA and not some preprocessed stuff and the
concept to only be notified for certain events is nonsense because any
nav-app wants to be notified about every data coming in. This concept
just sucks CPU time.

But just my 2c. ;-)




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Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 21:49 +0530, rakshat hooja wrote:

> 
> @Marcus -  My main job is to sell the Neo ( I work for a distributor)
> and tangoGPS is the application that impresses my clients (and me) the
> most (even though we hardly have OSM data for India!). I would love to
> see it continue to be developed.

Development will go on and as long as I have a Neo it will run on it
too. And I don't intend to sell my Neo ;-)

>  (Offline maps is something that people have asked me about also. If
> you have some suggestions about making that possible using OSM data
> and I am sure you will find a lot of community support to make that
> happen)

Offline maps are supported. Make sure you have a recent version of
tangoGPS installed and change the directory where the maps are stored to
some permanent place. Up to 0.9.2 this is by default /tmp and thus maps
get deleted on reboot.

You can pre-cache areas from the context menu when clicking on the map,
last item "map download".

Hope that helps, regards,

Marcus




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Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 16:26 +0100, Tim Coggins wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Marcus Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > from tangogps. Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own
> > gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it.
> >
> > OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it.
> 
> Marcus, these two statements appear to contradict each other. Can you
> confirm you will continue to work on tangoGPS?

tangoGPS does run on many other platforms too, i.e. eeePC, your Desktop
(Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora, Gentooo...). Alpha, amd64, hppa, ia64,
powerpc, mipsel, s390, sparc, freeBSD-386/amd64... ;-)

So yes, I'm continuing to work on it. What I meant is that OM develops
their own GPS app (splotter/density) and once it works well and it is
installed by default people will simply go and use it. Such is life and
I'm aware of it. Last not least density is the brainchild of Steve
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and he is quite proud of it. Thus there will be
funding for ongoing development.


> In my opinion so far tangoGPS is the best and most mature application
> which I've got to run the Freerunner. It would be a great shame for
> the project to loose your leadership.

Thanks for your remarks. I'll do my best to live up to it.

Marcus


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Re: GPS application (was: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 15:46 +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> Am Dienstag 29 Juli 2008 15:28:56 schrieb rakshat hooja:
> > > Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own
> > > gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it.
> > >
> > Not  to start a flame war but even I would like to know why Openmoko with
> > its scarce resources is developing its own gps software instead of
> > supporting something like Tango GPS that seems to be working so well?
> 
> Dear Rakshat, please don't let yourself be fooled by polemics, I know it's 
> hard to resist, but we should lean on to the facts.
> 
> Fact is: Openmoko is NOT developing its own gps software

Dear Dr. Michael Lauer,

four hours ago (10:38 GMT) John Lee from Openmoko wrote:

  asu [is]: + diversity (gps app based on EFL)

And from the blog of OM employee Holger Freyter:

"Certainly not the least application we are going to develop in
our GForge is diversity. This application is combining GPS, [..]
with OpenStreetmap to find your way[...]"


A quick search on Google tells that Wendy from Openmoko is writing test
reports about diversity / splinter.

If you look at:

http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/?root=diversity

you will see that the last checkin was *four hours* (!) ago by an OM
employee.

Stating that "Openmoko is NOT developing its own gps software" is an
impertinent and blunt lie.

Dear Rakshat, please don't let yourself be fooled by lies, I know it's
hard to resist, but we should lean on to the facts.

Fact is: Openmoko IS developing its own gps software.






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Re: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld

[Marcus Bauer]

Hello John,

thanks for taking the time for writing your answer.

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 18:38 +0800, John Lee wrote:

> Part of my current work requires me to use fso daily.  It seems
> strange that what I know seems to be different from what you know.
> 
> * fso does not force you to ASU or closely connected in any way.
>   could you please elaborate?
> 
>   fso: an open specification dbus interface (freesmartphone.org)
>+ a reference design (frameworkd, check git.freesmartphone.org)
> 
>   fso-image: fso + a reference python UI based on EFL.
> 
>   asu: a enlightenment WM for mobile phone (illume)
>+ qtopia phone stack (not based on fso)
>+ installer (EFL)
>+ diversity (gps app based on EFL)
>+ exposure (config app based on EFL)
> 
> the only similarity i can tell is EFL in fso-image.  but the fso
> itself does NOT force you to use it, just the implemented reference UI
> used it.

As you note further down, OM is going to stick with FSO. Thus unless OM
is developing ASU just for fun, the assumption that it is being ported
to FSO seems more than vaild. Please correct me if I'm wrong there.

And as you note further down, phonekit needs to be ported, otherwise the
dialer and the sms-messages apps wont work any longer. This is not a
task one can do in an afternoon. Thus on the long run FSO effectively
forces to use ASU.

>   it's easy to do another reference UI with GTK.

If Openmoko has taught one thing then the following: "easy" is nothing.
Otherwise people would buy Neo's instead of iPhones now.


> exactly what are tied together here?

gsmd and FSO dbus. The gsmd is the core part of a phone and if that is
incompatible to the current OM2007.2 one then dialer and messages stop
working. 

> for example, you can just run the ogpsd subsystem in frameworkd then
> use phonekit + gsmd to handle gsm if you want.

Which then will break ASU applications. And this is not how Linux works.
I can run Konqueror on GNOME or gimp in KDE or xfce or enlightenment.


>   on the other way
> around, the frameworkd is just a reference design, anyone can take
> libgsmd + gsmd to make the same interface on dbus.

Again: "anyone can take" is not true. Anyone can take a couple of
transistors and make an iPhone - not.


> could you explain why it's a WTF idea to have a PIM API on dbus?

1) eds has already been ported to dbus - so FSO is reinventing the wheel
2) the whole world uses libraries at application level because it
provides a nice abstraction layer (and so does EDS-dbus). the difference
between a bus and a library is similar to a water bottle and a water
pipeline in the end the both transport water but they serve different
purposes.


> there are technical reasons behind the re-implementation of gsm daemon
> but I'm not the one to answer it.

the gsmd works well. there is no technical reason.

>   I think the reason why you are
> unhappy is that OM moved away from OM2007.2. 

I'm living next to Sophia Antipolis which is the french 'silicon valley'
with 1300 companies and 30,000 employees. The common opinion here is
that OM shows erratic and unpredictable behaviour which makes it
unsuitable for consideration as development platform. 

That's simply a pity. Unless OM wants to do everything by themselves,
they need to care for external developers too in order to set up a
working eco system.


> since OM will stick with fso in the foreseeable future, I think port
> OM2007.2 app suites to fso is a logical move.

If at all I place my bet on GMAE and would not recommend using FSO but
sticking with OM2007.2 which will give a much better exit path towards
Limo, moblin etc.

>  ogpsd is there based on
> gypsy, and it should be just another backend of tangogps.

ogpsd should just offer the NMEA data on port 2947, thus keeping it
nicely network transparent. I'm not going to remove this functionality
from tangogps. Moreover the '800 pound gorilla' OM is developing its own
gps software and I'm not spending my energy competing with it. 

OM2007.2 is there, it works and I recommend everybody to develop for it.

Best regards,
Marcus




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Re: Openmoko on Design

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 00:35 -0700, Brian C wrote:

[snip ]

> So, I'll ask again: does
> Openmoko intend to allow direct code contributions by community members
> to core components of the ASU/FSO frameworks?

It would be better to get rid of this whole framework concept and doing
what Sean is constantly talking about: freedom. Freedom of choice.

The framework means tying the applications to the system level which is
like tying Firefox to Apache. 

No developer who is sane in his mind will want to marry a whole PIM API
just for sending an SMS. And FSO is essentially a newly invented,
unstable and immature PIM API. This is so much like Microsoft.

And there are already plenty of PIM APIs. Just use one of them, they all
work cross toolkit.

The gsmd needs a libgsmd and on top of this implement whatever dbus API
you like. This is freedom. This is choice. But by immediately glueing
the dbus API to a specific gsmd you forcefully marry all developers to
your FSO. End of freedom, end of choice.

phonekit is a lot more flexible and future proof than FSO. Due to the
nature of dbus it can potentially run side by side with any other
'phonekit'. But the whole point of FSO is to block this out.

Why do you want people to "rip phonekit out" of OM2007.2? It is not your
business anyway if you stopped development of OM2007.2.

The problem is not ETK, not qtopia, not GTK. The problem is framework
and FSO. This whole strength of Linux is separation of components. Do
one thing and do it well. Why willfully destroy this great concept of
success?

Openmoko should concentrate on kernel and driver work, power management
and working hardware and a basic set of apps. All this is mostly there
with OM2007.2 and now energy is better spend on doing thousand of little
improvements than starting again from scratch.

Marcus - developer of tangoGPS. I know what I'm talking about.




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Re: Openmoko on Design

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 17:14 -0700, ian douglas wrote:

> And while Openmoko is working on their own framework, I have to agree
> with many other voices: knowing which platform to develop for, as a
> developer myself, is confusing.

This is exactly the point. Openmoko should be like Ubuntu: integrating
what is there and adding here and there a missing link.

Ubuntu wouldn't be there where it stands today if there would be an
"Ubuntu framework".

They are just making nice distributions and that is the key of their
success. There is no real difference between Ubuntu, Kubuntu and
Xubuntu. Gimp (GTK) will run on Kubuntu and Scribus (qt) on Ubuntu and
both do run on Xubuntu.

However, openmoko-messages will not run on "ASU".

The Framework idea is a Microsoft idea. Remember the days when you
couldn't even uninstall Internet Explorer? It was part of the
"framework".

The success of Linux is based on the freedom of choice. No frameworks
there.

Last not least: the phonekit of OM2007.2 is dbus based too and can
therefore be used with qt, etk or whatever else pleases you. This whole
argument that FSO allows "cross-toolkit" is stale.

Well, just lets go back over 99 walls...

Marcus


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RE: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 01:08 +0200, Kristian 'kriss' Mueller wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 29.07.2008, 00:46 +0200 schrieb Marcus Bauer:
> > On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 15:33 -0700, steve wrote:
> > > Of course!!! Every toolkit  is allowed.
> > > 
> > > The whole point about FSO is to free people to pick their toolkit!
> > 
> > The opposite is true. FSO forces you into ASU. It basically makes all
> > work that has been put into OM2007.2 useless.
> > 
> > Please stop telling these lies.
> 
> Marcus, did I miss the irony here, or do you really believe this?

This is simply a matter of fact, not of believe. FSO is a shitty API
collection which is closely connected to ASU. Steve is a sales guy and
has not much clue of the underlying software, thus he simply repeats
what others told him.

The bad combination is NIH (not invented here) together with
almightyness thinking which results in all this religion here, making
people like you ask whether I "believe". I don't believe, I simply know.


> Why should anyone at Openmoko want to keep out other frameworks, 
> after even putting qtopia to X11?

That was mostly Trolltech's work. And apart from that you technically
can't "keep out" any other toolkit because there is Linux below and X on
top of it.

But FSO combines plenty of different things into one collection of API's
and that is how the Microsoft world works and always did and which drove
so many developers to Linux. If I use Apache as webserver I can use
Konqueror, Opera, Safari or Firefox as browser. However, Microsoft has
more than once tried to tie Internet Explorer to IIS, giving it an
advantage over other browsers. Same goes for Microsoft Office and
Windows.

To make it clear (and to prevent Wolfgang Spraul from alluding to
incorrect assumptions in case he should answer me): I welcome both
qtopia on X11 and an ETK based desktop and ETK based applications on the
phone.

Linux is all about choice (and that is what freedom means): If I don't
want to, I don't have to. On my desktop computer I have a big choice of
window managers and they flawlessly work together with a big choice of
browsers and a big choice of webservers.

For all those teletubby fanbois who are now ready to jump on me: I'm the
developer of tangoGPS and have a decent clue what I'm talking about. 

I'll ask you one question: why was there so much fighting in the free
software world about ODF versus Microsoft's OpenXML? I'll answer it for
you: because OpenXML ties people to MS Office.

FSO is the brainchild of Dr. Michael Lauer, fresh from the university's
ivory tower but lacking any industry experience. It is reinventing the
wheel and drains lots of ressources that are needed elsewhere inside of
Openmoko. It combines plenty of things out of which one is a new PIM API
based on dbus. This idea alone is worth to be mentioned every day for a
year on the dailyWTF website.

It is not about GTK or qt or ETK. It is about getting a working platform
out to users and developers. OM2007.2 was mostly there. It reminds me to
a joke:

Two fools try to escape from a lunatics hospital. There are 100
walls to climb over and so they start: 10, 20, 50, 90, 99. In
that moment says the one to the other: 'Lets go back and do the
last wall tomorrow'.

...have fun and enjoy life and start looking at the Neo what it is: a
tiny Linux computer with a GPS and a GSM modem. There is no sudden
revolution going to happen tomorrow.

Freedom is a synonym for choice. The choice for your keyboard, for your
window manager, for you applications, last not least for your gsmd.

FIC/Openmoko came to support Linux on their hardware platform in order
to give you this choice. Now it has changed into some religious
life-style thingy with phantasies of becoming tomorrows ubiquitious
lifestyle equipment. Linux definitely will be, Openmoko can be part of
it but thinking that Openmoko is the only parent is just megalomania.

Come down to earth, stop excusing hardware flaws with "open" and
"freedom", just sit down and fix them and Openmoko hardware will have a
bright future.

Best regards,
Marcus






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RE: Request for help: Would like community applications to show anddiscuss at LinuxWorld

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 15:33 -0700, steve wrote:
> Of course!!! Every toolkit  is allowed.
> 
> The whole point about FSO is to free people to pick their toolkit!

The opposite is true. FSO forces you into ASU. It basically makes all
work that has been put into OM2007.2 useless.

Please stop telling these lies.


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Re: GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue

[Marcus Bauer]

On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 09:42 +0300, Timo Jyrinki wrote:
> 2008/7/24 Al Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > fixed a long way back in the route. I didn't have a tile cached for the area
> > I had walked into. When I zoomed out to a scale where I did have a tile
> > cached it redrew the track, this time following the route I had walked
> > without jumping.
> 
> Actually if you do not have the area cached, it will just stay at the
> previous zoom level map tile wise if you zoom in and draw a new trace
> line on top of the old one. Ie. it is just messing up the display.

Just for info: this is fixed for the next version.


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Re: GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 21:03 +0200, Yorick Moko wrote:
> i tried to walk with tangogps and sometimes i jumed 1-2 km in a random
> direction and kept drifting
> there were no roads in openstreetmaps for my location, could this influence 
> it?

No, that is definitely not the case. But occasionally I have seen this
behaviour too on my FR, yet never on the Neo1973s. 

One interesting observation I made is that my FR has in the beginning
often a GPS time offset 15 seconds into the future. It does so even if I
feed the time by AGPS.

It takes 10-15 minutes until this is corrected by the chip.


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Re: Influence of WiFi on GPS readings (200m error)

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 07:54 -0700, C R McClenaghan wrote:
> I'm not sure where the fault lies, but with tangogps, I seem to get a  
> scatter plot displayed for my position. Initially the fix seems  
> accurate, then it starts to wander, although I may not be. If I am  
> moving, the trial doesn't seem to follow the route I've taken. I think  
> it may be tangogps, but I thought I'd try using my garmin bluetooth in  
> a "side by side" kind of test to see whether it is tangogps or the gps  
> radio.

tangogps just uses whatever comes from the GPS chip. No mangling
whatsoever. You can test it by just dumping the output of /dev/ttySAC1
to a logfile, convert it to GPX or KML and use it with Google maps.

The u-blox chip is quite jittery (extremly so when used with an SD card
without the fixes, be it kernel or additional capacitor).

Additionally in a city the accuracy of any GPS while driving or walking
will deviate up to 50m from your real position. Just have a look at
openstreetmap GPX traces for various cities...

The performance of the u-blox chip (without an SD card) is impressive -
apart from that flaw the hardware guys at openmoko have done an
excellent job.

Last word about the jitter: most GPS chips support different modes, one
where they flatten out the GPS signal and a 'straight' one. Have a look
into the u-blox binary protocol and you will most likely find something
there to switch - I know that SIRF has something to this account. The
Globallocate chip in the Neo 1973 does flatten by default. However, you
need to go between 10m and 20m before it starts to 'believe' that you
move. The u-blox tells you after 3-4m.

Marcus

> 
> Chris
> 
> On Jul 21, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Russell Sears wrote:
> 
> > I've had this problem when the initial fix was obtained while I'm  
> > inside
> > a vehicle (such as a bus or car) or near a lot of metal.  Going to a
> > complete stop, then moving a few times (in the car) seems to give the
> > chipset a better chance to realize it's got a bogus fix.
> >
> > -Rusty
> >
> > Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Finally I got to play with FR. Flushed todays (0721) dev image and  
> >> kernel.
> >> Running TangoGPS. While WiFi is on (WEP encrypted. wpa_supplicant
> >> powered ;)) I am having location error (never hit the right spot)  
> >> around
> >> 200-400m with reported speed from 0.5 to 20 km/h (while I am siting
> >> steadily in 1 place).
> >>
> >> When I turn WiFi Off (just on my FR, without touching access point  
> >> or a
> >> laptop from which I am writing) -- location moves to the right spot  
> >> with
> >> a bias of 10m or so.
> >>
> >> Therefore, the question: is that expected? ie that we can't rely on  
> >> GPS
> >> readings while WiFi is on?  Or from the other side: what is
> >> 'documented' precision in GPS readings while WiFi is enabled (and not
> >> actually very actively used, if used at all  since I guess TangoGPS
> >> already had those tiles from OSM downloaded).
> >>
> >> Or may be it is just my FR which behaves that way? Did anyone observe
> >> any similar behavior?
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 
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Re: GTA02 GPS rework for SD card interference issue

[Marcus Bauer]

On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 17:05 +0200, Alexander Köb wrote:
> Hey Michele,
> 
> Michele Renda schrieb:
> > I am an Electronic Engineer but I will bring to a place where repair
> > telephone, and with 5 Euro they will do for me.
> > 
> 
> 
> if you know of a place where they do that for 5 EUR, please let me know,
> I'll bring mine there too

Its called 'Italy' ;-)


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Re: Problem in logging in freerunner through ssh

[Marcus Bauer]

> 
> Somewhere on the wiki is a description how to shut this
> behaviour off,
> but I hope nobody will ever inactivate this vigilance.
> 
> Thanks for the explanation...
> 
> Regards...
> 

I have to add that Joachim Steigers suggestion is very okay too, as it
only deactivates the key checking for one specific host - in this case
your Neo. 'man ssh_config' gives you detailed information.


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Re: Problem in logging in freerunner through ssh

[Marcus Bauer]

Paul Bonser answered already with the fix.

I'll add the reason: whenever you connect to an unknown system, you are
asked if you want to accept the key like this:

-
The authenticity of host '192.168.0.202 (192.168.0.202)' can't be
established.
RSA key fingerprint is d8:c1:d2:ac:e9:57:9f:ed:1d:ee:b3:fa:62:04:8c:6c.
Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)?
-

and when you answer 'yes' the public key will be saved to your
~/.ssh/known_hosts file. This prevents the so called
man-in-the-middle-attack. Search google or wikipedia for more details.

If you reflash your phone, the public key changes (it is unique and
generated on the first boot) and your ssh believes there is an attack.
Somewhere on the wiki is a description how to shut this behaviour off,
but I hope nobody will ever inactivate this vigilance.

HTH, best regards,
Marcus




On Fri, 2008-07-18 at 00:40 +0530, saurabh gupta wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I followed the steps given in "Getting started with freerunner" on
> wiki to install the sample application in my free runner. I started
> the  FR normally and then connect it through a usb cable.  However
> after executing the command :
> sudo ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0
> when  i executed "ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED]", the following error message
> occurred:
> 
> 
> @@@
> @WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED! @
> @@@
> IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING NASTY!
> Someone could be eavesdropping on you right now (man-in-the-middle
> attack)!
> It is also possible that the RSA host key has just been changed.
> The fingerprint for the RSA key sent by the remote host is
> 37:a6:d4:f0:35:89:7c:6f:85:c4:9a:2f:31:c5:3f:35.
> Please contact your system administrator.
> Add correct host key in /home/saurabhg/.ssh/known_hosts to get rid of
> this message.
> Offending key in /home/saurabhg/.ssh/known_hosts:3
> RSA host key for 192.168.0.202 has changed and you have requested
> strict checking.
> Host key verification failed.
> 
> =
> 
> Can anyone suggest me the problem and the solution to fix it.
> 
> Thanks ...
> 
> -- 
> Saurabh Gupta
> Electronics and Communication Engg.
> 
> 
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Re: New Freerunner, factory image - "Registering..."

[Marcus Bauer]

You could post the output of "logread -f"

On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 09:42 -0500, Greg Bonett wrote:
> Although I'm still having trouble getting this SIM card to work but I
> think it's doable.  It actually registered last night and I was able to
> make and receive a phone call.  After a reboot it went back to
> "Registering"
> 
> It sounds like the "contacts lining up" issue is not the problem. I think
> its lining up correctly.
> 
> Image of SIM:
> http://www.gregbonett.org/sim.png
> 
> > On Wednesday 16 July 2008, Stroller wrote:
> >> On 16 Jul 2008, at 18:01, Greg Bonett wrote:
> >> >> ...
> >> >> Anyway, once booted to the factory image I get continuously a
> >> >> "Registering..." message in the top-left corner of the Home screen.
> >> >> After 30 minutes or so this message persists.
> >> >
> >> > Did you get this resolved?  I'm having the same experience right now.
> >> > Still doing some testing though...
> >>
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> Yes, I certainly did. The SIM card was not seated properly.
> >>
> >> In fact, I had it in the wrong way around!! This is quite easy to do
> >> - the cut-out corner of the SIM should face the TOP of the phone;
> >> once the holder is fully down you slide sideways to lock it - note
> >> the word "LOCK ->" stamped into the plastic.
> >>
> >> I think I read on IRC that a number of other people have had the same
> >> problem.
> >
> > For those confused about the orientation of the SIM or the SD card there's
> > a
> > photo on the wiki:
> >
> > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Installing_the_Micro-SD_card.2C_the_SIM_card.2C_and_the_Battery
> >
> > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:FR_SIM_SD_open.jpg
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: GPS problems, summary

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 23:00 +0200, Yorick Moko wrote:
> question:
> does the lower signal also effect accuracy?

It is a good deal more jittery. However, if you drive around in a city
you will get a lot more error from signal reflections than from the
jitter. IMHO nothing to worry about.




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Re: GPS problems, summary

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:38 +0200, Alasal wrote:

> What is the problem?
>  - The Openmoko Freerunner have a long TTFF with the SD card in the
> phone. So it takes a long time (10min+) before you get your first GPS
> data.

More specific: the GPS signal level drops by -20dBm, i.e. factor 100.
Signal strength of a GPS satellite above your head is around -127dBm.
Needed strength for a first fix is -145dBm with a minimum of three
satellites. Once the GPS chip has a fix, it can operate at signal levels
of -157dBm, thus making it possible to operate while there is data
transfer from/to the SD card.


> So if we have a first fix, the SD card isn't blocking the GPS anymore?
>  - yes, the SD card isn't blocking the GPS if we have a first fix.
> (Some people even claim it's more stable)

The FR's GPS performance is definitely top notch without the SD card.


> But we can't read of the SD card when the GPS is on?
>  - Wrong, you will be able to read the SD card when the GPS is on. You
> will probably not be able to read the SD card when you're starting the
> GPS (appr. 30 sec), because the GPS will only block the SD card when
> it's searching it's first fix. After that you will be able to read the
> SD card again.

You can always read the SD card. As said above the GPS signal
temporarily drops by -20dBm during i/o.

The kernel patch is a pragmatic and well working solution and should not
effect daily use.

> Summary of the summary:
> You will be able to use the SD card in the same time of the GPS except
> for the first appr 30 seconds. (And that's the worst case, because
> maybe Openmoko can find better hacks/fixes)

With the help of AGPS you can shorten it probably to 15 seconds.




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Re: New Freerunner, factory image - "Registering..."

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 12:01 -0500, Greg Bonett wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, once booted to the factory image I get continuously a
> > "Registering..." message in the top-left corner of the Home screen.
> > After 30 minutes or so this message persists.
> >
> 
> Did you get this resolved?  I'm having the same experience right now. 
> Still doing some testing though...


This is a defective GSM modem.

http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024

>From my four Neo's two show the problem. It is the same with the FSO
image. 

The modem will connect over and over again to the cell tower and thus
quickly drain the battery.

But this is okay. It is just a Heisenbug. The OM team is doing a great
job and we should alltogether stop this kind of negative messages.



/me, putting my teletubby hat on ;-p


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 08:45 +0200, Kalle Happonen wrote:
> > Its really pretty important that the communication on this issue *not*  
> > diverge into hate and vitriol towards customers, because to those who  
> > are observing the OpenMoko project - not participating - the SD+GPS  
> > testing issue is a *huge* screw up.
> >
> >   
> No, the SD+GPS issue is a bug. Admittedly a somewhat nasty bug, but 
> nothing extraordinary. The Debian key generation vulnerability was a 
> *huge* screw up.

I don't follow your view. The Debian ssh bug was all but obvious. That's
why it went for a long time unnoticed. 

However, the GPS is a basic feature and its malfunctioning is very
obvious. If you buy a new car and the engine doesn't run you'll wonder
if anybody ever drove around with it.

The same goes for making phone calls: there is quite often a buzzing
sound on the far end and it can be really bad. Unless you don't care
about the people you are calling the Neo is not usable as your daily
phone.

Then there are the phones with a GSM modem that constantly re-registers.

And there is still no word about which headsets are usable with the Neo.

Don't mix up freedom with broken hardware!


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 09:22 +0800, Wolfgang Spraul wrote:
> Alejandro -
> 
> > This issue does not look good. Is there someone in Openmoko or FIC  
> > aware of it?
> 
> Aware of it? You must be kidding.

Dear Wolfgang,

there remains one question that the community has to you and it is even
more important than the question why this was not caught in factory
testing:

>From all the Openmoko employees nobody has realized that the GPS is
broken. Why have you not used the phone yourselves? Why are you abusing
the community in such a shameless way?


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 12:42 +0200, thomasg wrote:

> First results show at the same devices, even outdoor, that there is no
> fix in over 400 seconds with SD card, the signal seems to be at least
> 10 to 20 dB worse (so bad, that most satellites don't even appear).

confirming this too. I never saw a satellite with more than -140dBm. Now
the strongest ones go up to nearly -125dBm.

Absolutely fantastic results here. Very quick in reacquiring a fix, even
while still in a building. 

who needs SD cards anyway ;-p


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Re: Reason for GPS problems found!

[Marcus Bauer]

Confirming this too. Under decent conditions first TTFF 130s, then after
a power down/power up it was ~40secs. Never saw it that fast on the
Neo1973. Excellent! Well, more or less :o)



On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 12:42 +0200, thomasg wrote:
> Hi ppl,
> 
> I write this to community, not to devel or owners because everyone
> should know:
> sbeh, one of the people in #neo1973-germany IRC-channel found the
> reason for the GPS problems.
> The problem only occurs if a SD card is set in. Doesn't matter if it's
> mounted or in use, it just has to sit in the socket.
> The TTFF went from no fix at all to TTFF 120 seconds indoor(!!!), and
> about 40 seconds outdoor.
> Two other people could verify this with about the same results.
> We'll do more tests later, but for now we surely know what's causing
> the problem (and it seems to be a EMC problem).
> 
> First results show at the same devices, even outdoor, that there is no
> fix in over 400 seconds with SD card, the signal seems to be at least
> 10 to 20 dB worse (so bad, that most satellites don't even appear).
> 
> Testresults from other people appreciated.
> 
> thomasg
> 
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


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Re: x offset in landscape mode

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 21:28 +0200, Michael Kluge wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a slight problem with the landscape mode. It seems that the 
> touchscreen subtracts
> some value from the x position where I touched the screen with the 
> stylus. The y value
> seems to be fine.  If I tap on the '+' on the bottom of the screen it 
> looks like I tapped
> the 'home' icon. I this a known problem? Has anyone tried the landscape 
> mode and
> found that everything is OK?

The bug is just four months old. Openmoko thinks you should not switch
to landscape stay upright! ;-)

I suspect the offset to be 160pixel (i.e. 640x480). It works on the
Neo1973(GTA01), thus it is most likely an xglamo issue.

A nice thing to do is to switch on the mouse cursor so that you know
where the Xserver thinks you clicked.

In /etc/matchbox/session set SHOWCURSOR="yes"
and in /etc/X11/Xserver look for the entry for GTA02 and remove the
-hide-cursor switch.

Marcus



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Re: T-Mobile with ASU on GTA01?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 17:29 +0200, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> Am Mittwoch 09 Juli 2008 10:23:51 schrieb Marcus Bauer:
> > This is another hardware problem which is shared with the Neo 1973 and
> > thus known since a year. The answer by Dr. Michael Lauer was "Guys, this
> > is a Heisenbug. We pray that it does not occur too often in the field.".
> >
> > That is a very interesting engineering approach...
> 
> Thanks for cutting my answer to make it look like I don't care.

The investigation into the probelem simply stopped. If finding the
solution is out of your abilites then simply forward the problem to
somebody else. For heaven's sake, what is the key function of a mobile
phone? Exactly, making calls. The cheapest phone you buy at your local
vendor will do so. If you run into a hardware/firmware bug that prevents
users from doing so, then forward the problem to somebody who can solve
it.

There was a even a mail from Erin concerning this subject:

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/014122.html

And one day you abandon the bug. You simply did not care. At least the
test procedures would have needed to be adapted adequately to catch
those phones.


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Re: T-Mobile with ASU on GTA01?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 16:38 +0200, thomasg wrote:

> Like said before, they are (at least for me) all but working well (not
> even to mention the UI design with 2-color icons without ever knowing
> what they might mean).

Some of the icons are all but intuitive but this is a question of the
icons and not of the toolkit. 


> The FSO-stack is what's needed to get that API and to get the
> developers.

The FSO-stack is another case of reinventing the wheel. It sounds nice
on the paper but in reality this is a horror. There are PIM APIs like
eds and whatever in the KDE world or qtopia is used. It took years for
them to grow mature and nobody needs yet another API.

The thing is that Michael Lauer massively dislikes C and needs
everything reinvented in Python. C has its place in the embedded world
as much as Python has. But again we cut a huge slice out of the
developer base.

The current work separation between gsmd and phone-kit is a very clever
one, but again not invented here but at o-hand. There have been plenty
of alternatives been offered for the current gsmd but they were all
blocked out. And many of those people simply left. 


> The userbase of Nokias Internet Tablet Series is huge, but it looks
> for me as the developerbase isn't that big in relation, and that with
> a GTK-stack.

What makes you think this will be different with ETK? This means even
less developers.

> Even Nokia bought Trolltech, and I bet they'll drop GTK eventually

And shortly afterwards Nokia bought Symbian. They are not going to drop
any of the three. They just do everything to put up a front against
Google's Android. That's what they fear.

> They are paying the Trolltech folks now, and they are also paying EFL
> developers.

Yes, there is a cool application for connecting the N800 to your car
electronics and see into the engine management. The point being is that
there are way less ETK developers than GTK developers or qt developers

> Again on the developers: they had nothing to work with.

This is simply not true. It was just a lack of documentation. And I
can't help it, but this has been deliberately blocked in order to pave
the way for this ASU/FSO. Even developers from o-hand who developed for
Openmoko in their freetime finally left the boat being completely
disgusted by the fact of constantly running against walls.

>  FSO with it's dbus-api will make this much easier

IMHO this is just pure nonsense. I know that it has been repeated over
and over again by Michael Lauer because it is his baby. It is one big
pack that rather would be split in tiny packages. That makes development
and debugging a lot easier. Moreover this will take another two years
until it has some API stability. A huge API like this doesn't come
overnight.
Last not least: if you want to use your code in the future on a moblin
device you are just doomed/trapped in an API that nobody else uses.









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Re: T-Mobile with ASU on GTA01?

[Marcus Bauer]

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 09:25 +0200, thomasg wrote:
> ASU works basically, but getting telephony work with it is a matter of
> luck.
> Mostly it doesn't work at all, mostly the qtopia phoneserver eats 90%
> CPU..

You may have one of the broken GSM modems. From my four phones two have
a broken GSM - that's 50%.

They constantly reconnect to the cell tower and inbetween the can't make
phone calls and loose the GPRS connection but without notifying the
pppd.

This is the same with the mature OM2007.2 images as well as with the
professionally by Trolltech developed pure qtopia images, the ASU images
the the new hyped FSO images. 


This is another hardware problem which is shared with the Neo 1973 and
thus known since a year. The answer by Dr. Michael Lauer was "Guys, this
is a Heisenbug. We pray that it does not occur too often in the field.".

That is a very interesting engineering approach...


The bug in question is:
http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1024


The big problem with Openmoko is this "not invented here" mentality. The
OM2007.2 images were working well, GTK is a valid platform for mobile
gadgets (see Nokia N700, N800, N810), you can add "bling" (see clutter)
and there is a huge developer base. The qtopia port to X adds a second
huge developer base.

But instead of going on and having a base for testing the hardware,
there came this change to ASU and etk which probably 0.1% of Linux
developers use. And despite what Lauer & Co try to make us believe, this
alienates GTK and qt developers. Just look on the planets of KDE and
GNOME - nearly no mentionings. The developer mailing list: a big void.

But the real problem here is that basically due to this reinventing the
wheel with ASU nobody inside Openmoko has ever really used the phones
thus plenty of things which could have come up simply got lost. If Sean,
Wolfgang and Steve would have started to exclusivly eat their own
dogfood, i.e. using the Neo as their daily phone, things like
oszillating GSM modems, non working GPS, SIM cards, deep discharge
batteries, noisy headsets would have been since long ironed out.

Before now all the fanbois jump onto me and accuse me of trolling:
in order to come to some lifestyle competitor of Apple the important
thing is that the basics work and that they work reliably. Accepting
brokeness as part of freedom is doing a disservice to the free software
world.

And it is even more unacceptable as there were 5000 people buying a Neo
1973 more or less for nothing. They all would have been more than happy
to participate in advancing the Neo.

The point being: the Neo *is* a fantastic concept. Bring it there. Stop
ASU, concentrate on the basics, get the gtk and qt communities in.









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Re: GPS

[Marcus Bauer]

On Tue, 2008-07-08 at 13:36 +0200, flexd wrote:
> Im actually having some trouble installing that, it says:
> 
> /
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/bin# opkg install 
> http://people.openmoko.org/tony_tu/GTA02/util/gps/openmoko-agpsui_0.1+svnr7-r0_armv4t.ipk
> Downloading 
> http://people.openmoko.org/tony_tu/GTA02/util/gps/openmoko-agpsui_0.1+svnr7-r0_armv4t.ipk
> Multiple packages (openmoko-agpsui and openmoko-agpsui) providing same 
> name marked HOLD or PREFER.  Using latest.
> Installing openmoko-agpsui (0.1+svnr7-r0) to root...
> Collected errors:
>  * Package openmoko-agpsui md5sum mismatch. Either the opkg or the 
> package index are corrupt. Try 'opkg update'.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/bin#
> 
> Not entirely sure what to do as im no linux expert :)
> /

simply do 

  opkg install openmoko-agpsui

as it seems to be in the repositories. And although being the same
version it has a different md5sum, that's why opkg complains.


Marcus



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Re: Posible Bluetooth Keyboard

[Marcus Bauer]

On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 16:39 -0600, michael irons wrote:
> >
> >
> > The Stowaway from iGo / ThinkOutside works nicely for me.
> >
> 
> I was looking at that, but they seem to not be selling them anymore...
> Any ideas where to find one in US

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=igo+bluetooth&x=0&y=0

Several supplieres. HTH



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