While I agree with you on most things I've seen you write, here I think
you're semi-deluded. Some very young politicians might go in with altruistic
thoughts and ideals, I believe many stay for the benefits and the power and
prestige. Somethings hard to give up once you've got them.
But, oh, so easy to lose in the snap of a finger ...viz ...spitzer/Paterson
in ny and so many who we remember well back to tricky dick!!
-Original Message-
From: Jeff Miles [mailto:jmile...@charter.net]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC
The average net worth of Senators is about 9 million, not exactly average
joes.
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:27 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:
On Mar 4, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Yeah you really have to wonder why someone would blow 5 million $ running
for an office
You mean the millionaires club?
Senators have never been average and it is similar to the house of
Lords in England.
Titled individuals.
Stewart
At 08:15 AM 3/5/2010, you wrote:
The average net worth of Senators is about 9 million, not exactly average
joes.
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:27
On Mar 5, 2010, at 9:15 AM, mike wrote:
The average net worth of Senators is about 9 million, not exactly
average joes.
But the more significant median is about $890,000 (for Senators and
Reps in 2008). Anyone who owns a house in the metro DC area is
probably worth more than that. So at
My son is going through the same disappointment with his new car want.
A Chevy Camaro, fully loaded is something he can afford, but the insurance will
kill him. I asked if the seats lay all the way back so he could sleep in his
car.
Insurance pricing is a joke. And the tort
Fred, I'll be needing $10 from you, and all your friends, and their friends
friends. But don't worry, I promise to think like you and we'll get that nasty
bill crushed.
Jeff Miles
jmile...@charter.net
Join my Mafia
http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726
On Mar
After being absent for a few days I really should read ahead before
replying to old posts. Below pretty much covers my thoughts.
Jeff Miles
jmile...@charter.net
Join my Mafia
http://apps.facebook.com/inthemafia/status_invite.php?from=550968726
On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:18 AM, b_s-wilk
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote:
My son is going through the same disappointment with his new car want. A Chevy
Camaro, fully loaded is something he can afford, but the insurance will kill
him.
Damn right. My auto insurance just went up by $146 for a
On Mar 4, 2010, at 2:38 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
So on the face of it, how friggen greedy do they have to get before
someone starts calling foul? Especially when it's your and my money?
When the government gets money to pay for the common defense and
promote the general welfare they cry foul.
On 3/4/2010 11:27 AM, tjpa wrote:
When the government gets money to pay for the common defense and
promote the general welfare they cry foul.
When greedy corporations get money for outlandish bonuses and wild
parties that's perfectly fine.
To take a quote from an AIG exec out of context
On Mar 4, 2010, at 1:54 PM, John Settle wrote:
They (Politicians)only care about the next election, just like we
only care about the next bonus. Well, none of them cares about the
country, none of us cares about the institution, he said, adding:
They really don't care, and I really don't
As a municipal official (elected to town council of a very small town),
that garbage makes my blood boil. The town pays me well under $1,000
per year. I file for election with the state election board and stand
every four years. I am honored to serve with others who may disagree at
times, but
When I lived in Canada, all local elections were party free. In
other words you ran against you competitor not a party.
Some states and municipalities do this also. This I think makes true
what you are saying. I find most (I limit that) elected officials to
be interested in their fellow
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall
revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:
But once you get into state and national politics they start moving the
other way.
Yeah, well that is where they start getting onto the REAL money, the
kind of money that makes the risks truly
Actually this is pretty easy. Just accuse them of some impropriety with
a student. Of course if someone gets caught lying about something like this I
hope they not only get prison time but also sued for most of what they're worth.
Jeff Miles
jmile...@charter.net
Join my Mafia
On Mar 4, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Yeah you really have to wonder why someone would blow 5 million $
running for an office that only pays just over $150.000 a year. And
in the case of congress they do it every two years.
Usually OPM -- Other People's Money.
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.netwrote:
I know the name of the channel is Fox News, but there are two distinct
components. Commentary and news. Commentary includes the very conservative
Hannity, the populist O'Reilly, the libertarian Beck, and the
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 8:20 PM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.net wrote:
Could you please be specific in what is wrong with the analysis in this
article.
I do not know if the figures and comparisons in the article are
accurate or not. That is because, if for no other reason, the term
On Mar 2, 2010, at 10:01 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote:
I know the name of the channel is Fox News, but there are two
distinct components. Commentary and news. Commentary includes the
very conservative Hannity, the populist O'Reilly, the libertarian
Beck, and the running-for-president
Sorry, a bit late on this. Had a bit of life going on there.
Anyway, as I'm sure you'll know, figures are all over the map on this
depending on who you listen to. But them best averages I've heard are about 1%.
So how does that justify the percentages of price increases over the
The way this country privatizes everything seems to provide a perverse
incentive for doctors inclined to profit as their primary motive. A
'specialist' I went to a couple years ago sent me to get expensive
diagnostic scans, x-rays and MRI. When I went for follow-up, he could
not find the x-rays.
On Mar 1, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Ellen Rains Harris wrote:
Read the article. Bonnie has already died.
Unfortunately it is in the ultra kooky National Review. It is hard to
accept the case they make for anything.
*
**
Much harder to get rid of this guy under government health care than free
market health care...just look at how hard it is to fire teachers.
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com
wrote:
The way this country privatizes everything seems to provide a perverse
Then cowboy up and buy the Globe and Mail article. It's even more
horrifying.,
- Original Message -
From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for
broadband
Mike, what are you talking about Government health care for? This was a
referral from my primary doctor (get this checked by a specialist) under
a for-profit health plan. The doctor wanted to perform surgery when it
was unnecessary so he could line his pocket.
Sheesh, peel-back the tin foil
And I said if this guy was a government worker it would be much harder to
get rid of him. Thankfully we aren't and you can tell him to bugger off.
On Mar 2, 2010 11:40 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) mark.sny...@ngc.com
wrote:
Mike, what are you talking about Government health care for? This was a
If he were a government worker?
Most of the systems do not employee doctors. They still work the
exact same way doctors here work. Fee for service.
The problem comes in when a doctor tries to pad his fees by trying to
opt for hi profit, hi income procedures without review.
I am not
I suspect that the government overhead is not properly counted, e.g. the real
estate occupied by the program administrators, etc. If it really is only 3%,
no wonder government health care is so bad. What is there about government
administration that is so marvelous that the private sector
At 07:18 PM 3/1/2010, tjpa wrote:
If bad doctors and hospitals were closed down, insurance rates would
go down (provided that the insurance companies did not simply pocket
the money).
And the _government_ is going to do a better job of closing down bad doctors
and hospitals? They could do
Part of it is lower overhead.
It is why some charities devote over 90% to the clients instead of 60-70 %
I know this is going to sound biased but Lutheran World Relief, and
Bethesda (both Lutheran Charities) have very low overheads. Why?
Lower staff costs. The directors of our charities
On Mar 2, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Part of it is lower overhead.
It is why some charities devote over 90% to the clients instead of
60-70 %
I know this is going to sound biased but Lutheran World Relief, and
Bethesda (both Lutheran Charities) have very low overheads.
On Mar 2, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Fred Holmes wrote:
And the _government_ is going to do a better job of closing down bad
doctors and hospitals?
And why would they not? Do you say mockingly And the _police_ are
going to arrest bank robbers and murderers? You bet they do. The
government can
On Mar 2, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Fred Holmes wrote:
I suspect that the government overhead is not properly counted, e.g.
the real estate occupied by the program administrators, etc. If it
really is only 3%, no wonder government health care is so bad.
Why do you expect people who are solely
Do not think our folks run the latest and the greatest either.
Non profits are usually the last to upgrade their equipment as they
do not get to depreciate their stuff, but have to justify all their expenses.
So far I have covered most of my own computer expenses in my church
even to the
What altruist is going to come in and run health care...this is a false
argument since there are none.
On Mar 2, 2010 4:31 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:
On Mar 2, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Fred Holmes wrote: I suspect that the
government overhead is not pro...
Why do you expect people who are solely
At least in Medicare, there are quite a few costs which go into the
overhead of private insurance which are not counted in Medicare. See:
http://emac.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/08/26/medicare-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/
Analysis in this article demonstrates that the overhead is
You are right there are no true altruists (sounds contradictory)
However there those who can run a business or agency who are not
heavily influenced by one side or the other.
Most medical clinics are run by whom? Doctors mostly.
A good insurance company will be run by someone who is paid a
On Mar 2, 2010, at 6:48 PM, mike wrote:
What altruist is going to come in and run health care...this is a
false
argument since there are none.
You live in a sad, sad world. Most of the rest of us don't.
*
** List
Try and shut down a hospital.
The feds have no controls over hospitals except for VA and
military. It is all state.
And the best they can do is to pull Medicaid funding from a
hospital. (Feds can pull Medicare funds, but only if they really screw up.)
Down here most hospitals are not
On Mar 2, 2010, at 6:04 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote:
http://emac.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/08/26/medicare-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/
If your view of the world comes from Fox News you are not living on
this planet.
Could you please be specific in what is wrong with the analysis in this
article. And, yes, my view of the world comes from Fox News, along with
CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post among others.
I don't see how you can live on this planet and not pay attention to the
OK. What altruist is going to come in and run health care?
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 5:19 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:
On Mar 2, 2010, at 6:48 PM, mike wrote:
What altruist is going to come in and run health care...this is a false
argument since there are none.
You live in a sad, sad
Apparently you haven't met Mr. Piwowar, ideologue extraordinaire and
sometime poker to keep the list hot.
I don't see how you can live on this planet and not pay attention to the
arguments on both sides of important issues.
On Mar 2, 2010, at 8:34 PM, mike wrote:
I don't see how you can live on this planet and not pay attention to
the
arguments on both sides of important issues.
Fox reports the news of a different planet. I don't live there.
On Mar 2, 2010, at 8:20 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote:
Could you please be specific in what is wrong with the analysis in
this article.
Read the comments. One in particular explains it quite clearly.
*
** List info,
I know the name of the channel is Fox News, but there are two distinct
components. Commentary and news. Commentary includes the very
conservative Hannity, the populist O'Reilly, the libertarian Beck, and
the running-for-president Huckabee.
I don't live on their planet.
News, for me, consists
Shepard Smith is also know for going off on Republicans, not Democrats
during his show. He just did it again the other day.
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.netwrote:
I know the name of the channel is Fox News, but there are two distinct
components.
Sprouts I think = Whole Foods CEO.
In most countries that have universal health care or universal
coverage (there are huge differences on what that means by the way)
There is tort reform. We are one of the few countries where our law
system resembles the wild west in health care.
It is one
At 02:14 AM 3/1/2010, Jeff Miles wrote:
And I'm sure you're not one of those uneducated who will bring up the lack of
tort reform as a reason for high insurance costs.
So how much does liability insurance / damage claims add to the cost of
healthcare? As a percentage of overall costs?
Enough to make a difference in cost and practice.
Stewart
At 07:32 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
At 02:14 AM 3/1/2010, Jeff Miles wrote:
And I'm sure you're not one of those uneducated who will bring up
the lack of tort reform as a reason for high insurance costs.
So how much does liability
A friend of mine who was an OB in Pennsylvania said the insurance was so bad
he moved to another state. Imagine the costs of starting or buying a new
practice and you can think of what the insurance must cost to make it worth
doing. Those costs get passed on.
On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Rev.
My youngest talks of the cars he would like to own, and given the
right circumstances could pay for. (He is in college, but also the
national guard bringing in a regular income.)
Every car he would like to own, would be affordable except for insurance.
He could pay for the car, but the
Yeah, but how **significant** a difference? Quantitative measure is what I'm
looking for. Surely some think tank has run the numbers?
Fred Holmes
At 08:44 AM 3/1/2010, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Enough to make a difference in cost and practice.
Stewart
At 07:32 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
At
Fred Holmes escribió:
And I'm sure you're not one of those uneducated who will bring up the lack of
tort reform as a reason for high insurance costs.
So how much does liability insurance / damage claims add to the cost of
healthcare? As a percentage of overall costs?
The main problem
At 11:18 AM 3/1/2010, b_s-wilk wrote:
The main problem with high insurance costs for consumers is that medical
practitioners are not policing themselves, and states don't police them either
until too many patients are harmed. In too many cases, incompetent doctors who
maim or kill patients, and
At 11:18 AM 3/1/2010, b_s-wilk wrote:
After all, it's immoral to profit from others' illnesses and misfortunes, so
why do many health health insurance executives have multi-million dollar
salaries and benefits, and insurance companies have billion dollar profits?
Let's do [some of] the math on
There is no regulation.
Hospitals are allowed to operate based on state guidelines and review boards.
There is no federal guidelines on Hospitals.
Just like doctors you have 50 different sets of guidelines out there.
Stewart
At 10:51 AM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
At 11:18 AM 3/1/2010, b_s-wilk
At 10:07 AM 3/1/2010, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:
There is no federal guidelines on Hospitals.
That isn't true, Stewart. You have overlooked the respective sections
of both the US Code, and the CFR, which deal with military hospitals and VA
hospitals.
At 09:35 PM 2/28/2010, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:
Bob I have no need to convince anyone of what I believe, but when asked I
will explain it.
Thank you for responding, Stewart. However, I didn't mention the act
of convincing others of what [you] believe. I spoke,
Only those hospitals and they are minimal at best.
All other hospitals that you or I would normally use have no federal
guidelines.
Can you get treated at a VA hospital or a military hospital on a routine basis?
Also note they have very limited tort options.
Stewart
At 04:05 PM 3/1/2010,
On Mar 1, 2010, at 11:58 AM, Fred Holmes wrote:
Let's do [some of] the math on this one. The other day the CEO of
one of the health insurers said before Congress that she received
$10M in compensation, something like $1M in salary and $9M in stock
options. More or less. Well if it's a
On Mar 1, 2010, at 2:14 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
Haven't heard that argument or of Sprouts? But paying for our own
health care? What a concept! But in reality, due to the insurance
industry, that's become an impossibility with the exception of
dealing with a few scrapes a bruises or just
At 03:59 PM 3/1/2010, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:
Only those [VA and military] hospitals and they are minimal at best.
What do you mean minimal? Do you mean few in number? If so, how
many are there, and how do you know?
All other hospitals that you or I would
Check out OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan)
I think they have the same rates you quote Tom.
By the way it is done very similarly to what the insurance plans do down here.
They negotiate a set rate with Doctors and Hospitals etc.
The biggest difference is that they limit technology. Where
Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Moderation in all things is good.
Stewart
I always liked this quotation. Particularly since it means that
moderation in following the advice of the quotation is tantamount to
permitting excess in all else.
No I mean minimal regulations.
You are one of the lucky few who get to use the VA system.
I served 11 years in the reserves and I am not allowed to use the VA system.
In order to use the VA you must be eligible and that number is
climbing once again after dropping off.
It is a very good
I really much prefer Augustine of Hippos comment.
Grant me chastity and continence, but not yet
Stewart
At 06:25 PM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Moderation in all things is good.
Stewart
I always liked this quotation. Particularly since it means that
moderation in
On Mar 1, 2010, at 11:51 AM, Fred Holmes wrote:
This says to me that real-world regulation doesn't work.
No, this says that laissez-faire lack of regulation is a deadly mistake.
Worse, instead of fixing the problem, the wing nut solution is to
protect the evil doers and take away the
On Mar 1, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Check out OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan)
I think they have the same rates you quote Tom.
Ontario does something in addition to limiting crazy high management
salaries. They also manage capital expenditures and utilization rates.
need three.
We need reform. This isn't it.
- Original Message -
From: Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for
broadband availability
Where I live in South East Alabama, there are at least 4 MRI and CT
machines serving a population of 100K. That also may be a little
under as some doctor groups may have their own machines.
My in-laws live in Northern Ontario. They need to travel a minimum
of 60 miles and possibly 90 miles
Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
I really much prefer Augustine of Hippos comment.
Grant me chastity and continence, but not yet
Stewart
At 06:25 PM 3/1/2010, you wrote:
Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Moderation in all things is good.
Stewart
I always liked this quotation. Particularly since
On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:44 PM, Ellen Rains Harris wrote:
We need reform. This isn't it.
I was writing about over supply and low utilization rates. I don't see
how you can fairly leap from that to an insurer murdering its
customers to save money.
Read the article. Bonnie has already died.
- Original Message -
From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for
broadband availability]
On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:44
, March 01, 2010 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls
for broadband availability]
On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:44 PM, Ellen Rains Harris wrote:
We need reform. This isn't it.
I was writing about over supply and low utilization rates. I don't
see how you can fairly
-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls for
broadband availability]
On Mar 1, 2010, at 8:44 PM, Ellen Rains Harris wrote:
We need reform. This isn't it.
I was writing about over supply and low utilization
not fitting all.
- Original Message - From: Stewart Marshall
revsamarsh...@earthlink.net
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Evil people [Was: Re: [CGUYS] FCC head calls
for broadband availability]
Ellen I am a little curious
Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing.
On Feb 28, 2010 8:12 PM, Reid Katan ka...@his.com wrote:
Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net:
OK I come from this on both sides.
As a theologian I view mankind through both eyes. He is basically
good, but there is
Lutheran Theology is unique on this one.
We believe in Simul Justus Et Picatur
Luther's oft quoted Latin phrase means Sinner yet at the same time Saint!
So yes they are contradictory, but also reality.
Stewart
At 09:07 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote:
Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall
Moderation in all things is good.
Stewart
At 09:22 PM 2/28/2010, you wrote:
Except sometimes the regulation is used to do the screwing.
On Feb 28, 2010 8:12 PM, Reid Katan ka...@his.com wrote:
Quoting Rev. Stewart Marshall popoz...@earthlink.net:
OK I come from this on both sides.
As a
At 07:20 PM 2/28/2010, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:
Lutheran Theology is unique on this one. We believe in Simul Justus Et
Picatur Luther's oft quoted Latin phrase means Sinner yet at the same
time Saint!
So yes they are contradictory, but also reality.
If it
Bob I have no need to convince anyone of what I believe, but when
asked I will explain it.
Also note that I believe it to be truth, but am aware that what I
believe is truth may not be what others believe.
The reality I stated is that people are dual natured.
I cant remember the old axiom
You and my uncle would really get along, at least on that idea. He
believes the whole health care debate is a bunch of garbage due to problems
we've created ourselves with our own health and care. And he's not far off on
that. If the majority of us didn't need health care at every cut
Sounds like one of the arguments the CEO of Sprouts? was making...make
people *pay* for their health care and they might not go for every
sniffle...they might take care of themselves better. If we all had grocery
store insurance we'd be buying steak every day of the week instead of ramen
noodles
Bob,
I think there's a word for that also. Isn't that called fanaticism?
The way I see it, if you're absolutely sure you're right, you may or may not
be, but you're unlikely to be deterred from your faith and unquestioning lack
of thought.
Jeff Miles
jmile...@charter.net
Join my
Haven't heard that argument or of Sprouts? But paying for our own
health care? What a concept! But in reality, due to the insurance industry,
that's become an impossibility with the exception of dealing with a few scrapes
a bruises or just ignoring any health concerns in hope they'll go
Sorry, Wholefoods, not Sprouts.
http://www2.wholefoodsmarket.com/blogs/jmackey/2009/08/14/health-care-reform-full-article/
On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Jeff Miles jmile...@charter.net wrote:
Haven't heard that argument or of Sprouts? But paying for our own
health care? What a
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