Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>Please don't it breaks threading in gMail.

As it should. It *IS* a different thread.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[mike]

The point is it SHOULD break if it's a new subject or alteration of the
original subject.

Like this email...should I put this with your quote in Tom's thread
regarding this topic or keep it in this thread because you may not read
Tom's?



On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, John Duncan Yoyo
wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Tony B  wrote:
>
> > Alright guys. If your comments have nothing to do with DSL & Answering
> > machines, keep it to yourself or at least change the subject (IF it
> > still relates to computers).
> >
> >
> Please don't it breaks threading in gMail.
>
>
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>



-- 
Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs!


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Tony B  wrote:

> Alright guys. If your comments have nothing to do with DSL & Answering
> machines, keep it to yourself or at least change the subject (IF it
> still relates to computers).
>
>
Please don't it breaks threading in gMail.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tony B]

Alright guys. If your comments have nothing to do with DSL & Answering
machines, keep it to yourself or at least change the subject (IF it
still relates to computers).


> Tell me how I can double my income please.

>>> ...make the rest live on less than $100,000 and no bonuses, especially
>>> when their companies tank.
>>
>> You mean if I tank the company I get $100 grand?
>>
>> Ok, I'll get to work immediately.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Tell me how I can double my income please.

Stewart


At 11:01 PM 2/28/2009, you wrote:
...make the rest live on less than $100,000 and no bonuses, 
especially when their companies tank.


You mean if I tank the company I get $100 grand?

Ok, I'll get to work immediately.

:-)


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Eric S. Sande]

...make the rest live on less than $100,000 and no bonuses, 
especially when their companies tank.


You mean if I tank the company I get $100 grand?

Ok, I'll get to work immediately.

:-)


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Eric S. Sande]

The more the world is run by "invertors" and MBAs who don't know
which end of a screw driver they are supposed to hold on to, the 
worse the descisionmaking gets.


Well, possibly true.  Personally I don't know jack about all this
derivative stuff but I do know how to get things done.  I know
where I am and where I need to be.

What more is there besides taking care of your people and making
sure your customers are satisfied.




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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[b_s-wilk]

Some investors went so far as to say Verizon's investment in FiOS "doomed" 
the company, while others just claimed it was a huge waste of money -- and 
that upgrades weren't necessary. Yet ironically FiOS (alongside wireless)

is helping Verizon weather the recession...


Were these the same business advisors who told us there was a bright 
future in hedge funds and derivatives?


The more the world is run by "invertors" and MBAs who don't know which 
end of a screw driver they are supposed to hold on to, the worse the 
descisionmaking gets.


Barron's is bullish on Verizon this month; says outlook is good. Rumor 
is iPhone on VZ, 
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2009/02/23/apple-to-launch-iphone-on-verizon-wireless/trackback/. 
Verizon claims that they will save $1 billion when FIOS is fully rolled 
out. Does this mean that they will lower the price for FIOS then? Or the 
fat cats get bigger bonuses?


I've been saying for years that an MBA isn't worth anything except the 
paper it's written on [and I was a recruiter for a university with a 
business school]; an MBA is not much more than hazing. Several years ago 
Harvard considered only accepting students for MBA if they had a 
sci-tech background and experience and avoiding anyone coming directly 
from biz school with an undergraduate biz degree. They should have done 
that, or eliminated the MBA altogether in favor of advance study and 
experience in each individual discipline.


If the "best and brightest" of MBAs on Wall Street and in corp bd 
rooms--Masters of the Universe--NOT--got us into this mess, fire most of 
them, and make the rest live on less than $100,000 and no bonuses, 
especially when their companies tank.



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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>Some investors went so far as to say Verizon's investment in FiOS "doomed" 
>the company, while others just claimed it was a huge waste of money -- and 
>that upgrades weren't necessary. Yet ironically FiOS (alongside wireless)
>is helping Verizon weather the recession...

Were these the same business advisors who told us there was a bright 
future in hedge funds and derivatives?

The more the world is run by "invertors" and MBAs who don't know which 
end of a screw driver they are supposed to hold on to, the worse the 
descisionmaking gets.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Roger D. Parish]

At 10:36 PM -0500 2/27/09, Eric S. Sande wrote:


Either wait until I or someone like me makes it happen for you at
a competitive rate or pay a market rate for the service level you
want.  I'll do it, if you're in my territory.  It will cost you just the
same price as it costs government or enterprise customers.

As fast as you like, for what it costs me to provide it.


Along those lines, an interesting article about the impact of Fios on Verizon:


For the last three or four years, many investors whined about 
Verizon deciding to spend billions to deploy fiber to the home. But 
as install prices drop, a recent study from the Yankee Group 
suggests that fiber to the home connections generate ARPU (average 
revenue per user) of 20 percent to 30 percent higher than DSL. 
Meanwhile, while many companies are laying people off, Verizon is 
hiring in order to keep up with triple play demand. Some investors 
went so far as to say Verizon's investment in FiOS "doomed" the 
company, while others just claimed it was a huge waste of money -- 
and that upgrades weren't necessary. Yet ironically FiOS (alongside 
wireless) is helping Verizon weather the recession, with GPON 
putting them in a position to compete for years to come.


--
Roger
Lovettsville, VA


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Eric S. Sande]

Whether individual households use this service or not isn't important. The 
benefits to nonusers from businesses, schools and communities >being more 
connected, resourceful and efficient will affect them >positively even if 
they don't use broadband themselves.


Well, that has not been my experience.  The Federal Universal
Service Fund (FUSF) is all ready part of your telephone bill and
it was designed to do exactly what you are proposing.

It relates directly to schools and rural areas.

When you say that it doesn't matter whether individual households
use the service, Betty, that is not a particularly compelling argument.

Either wait until I or someone like me makes it happen for you at
a competitive rate or pay a market rate for the service level you
want.  I'll do it, if you're in my territory.  It will cost you just the
same price as it costs government or enterprise customers.

As fast as you like, for what it costs me to provide it.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Eric S. Sande]

BTW, if telcos never made money from residential service, how 
did they pay my dividends for so many years, including 2008?


Residential service is a drop in the revenue bucket (one that
is getting smaller by the day, by the way).  A maintenance or
installation truck roll costs virtually the same whether it's a
$6.00 a month Lifeline subscriber or a $400 a month DS1
subscriber (prices aren't exact and vary by applicable tariff,
which I don't have in front of me at the moment).

It may be true that it is less expensive to provide basic dialtone
in a metropolitan area as opposed to somewhere more rural.

That is usually reflected in state tariffs, but the difference is
often less than you may expect.  I never worked in residential
service provisioning, though, but I do know business rates.

In Pennsylvania, a state I know well, it's currently $50 to hook
up a new line no matter whether it's in Center City Philly or as
in a job I managed a few weeks ago--west of Pittsburgh in a
place that was too out of the way to have a unique name, a
brand new industrial park carved out of a field, let's call it
Yasgur's Farm.

$50 a line.  No cable in place, nothing.  And of course a rush
job in sub freezing temperatures, tying up three linemen, two
trucks, an engineer, a foreman, and a technician for a week,
give or take.  I estimate we'll turn a profit on that job, maybe
in 2015 if the customer makes a LOT of phone calls.

But you can't say no, that's regulated universal service.

But we also ran in a DS1 at the same time and provisioned
fiber conduit.  When they're ready we'll be ready.

We make little if anything on dialtone.  We DO make money
on higher level enterprise optical services, backbone transport,
and anything deregulated or unregulated that we can price at
market rate.

And we do infrastructure better and faster than anybody in
telecom.

That is where your dividends come from.

I'd like to see figures that indicate a loss for dial tone service 
in metro areas.


Proprietary, but check your annual report.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Eric S. Sande]

So are you are saying that without regulation to "redistribute wealth," 
many (most?) residential customers would have no telephone service?


No, I'm saying that it's a cost of doing business.  State tariffs normally
cap rate of return, set prices and define, strictly, performance
standards.  If I fail to meet those standards I'm OOB.
 



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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>Now, are there third party solar backups for FIOS? Or DC powered backups 
>coupled with generators?

FIOS will only need a few milliamperes. You could put the 2 cats on a 
treadmill hooked to a small generator.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Don't laugh it would make great money for the seniors and much 
appreciated work for the youngsters.


Stewart

At 03:41 PM 2/27/2009, you wrote:

Well, $15 will buy you at least 2 decent meals where I live.

This gives me an idea (I'm serious about this).  If anybody knows a young
person who wants an idea for a service project of some sort, perhaps
volunteering to help working folks apply for rebates would qualify.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[John Emmerling]

Well, $15 will buy you at least 2 decent meals where I live.

This gives me an idea (I'm serious about this).  If anybody knows a young
person who wants an idea for a service project of some sort, perhaps
volunteering to help working folks apply for rebates would qualify.

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall <
popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Yes it has, but I still see rebates of 10-15$.
>
> I just finished sending out a rebate of $15 for a motherboard.
>
> Stewart


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Yes it has, but I still see rebates of 10-15$.

I just finished sending out a rebate of $15 for a motherboard.

Stewart


At 01:30 PM 2/27/2009, you wrote:

I'm curious, what size rebate do you have in mind?  A $25 rebate would seem
enough to justify the paperwork even if you're busy, money is money
(especially nowadays when investments are nothing to write home about).

I have to add that, since it has generally become possible to check the
status of rebates on-line, the process has become a bit less painful.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[John Emmerling]

I'm curious, what size rebate do you have in mind?  A $25 rebate would seem
enough to justify the paperwork even if you're busy, money is money
(especially nowadays when investments are nothing to write home about).

I have to add that, since it has generally become possible to check the
status of rebates on-line, the process has become a bit less painful.

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall <
popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
...

> My wife is a stay at home empty nester.  She fills out each and every
> rebate form we get so it makes a difference, but we are highly unusual in
> that realm, many consumers do not as it is not worth their time.
>
>


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Many small farmers do not like dealing with subsidies as they find 
they take too much paperwork, and often do not pay enough for what it is worth.


Most small businesses and people are like this.  How many rebate 
forms have you filled out the past 12 months?


My wife is a stay at home empty nester.  She fills out each and every 
rebate form we get so it makes a difference, but we are highly 
unusual in that realm, many consumers do not as it is not worth their time.


The rewards must be worth it or they are not rewards, but just nuisances.

Stewart


At 12:19 PM 2/27/2009, you wrote:

Then why do folks get so upset when someone proposes paying rewards to
students who get good grades?

Often the problem with rewards is that people expend huge resources
finding ways to game the system. For starters, consider crop subsidies.

Yet the same folks who oppose helping kids will be the strongest
supporters of payouts to giant agrabusinesses. Why?


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>I'd always go for the carrot [incentives] first before considering the 
>stick [regulations or punishment].

Then why do folks get so upset when someone proposes paying rewards to 
students who get good grades?

Often the problem with rewards is that people expend huge resources 
finding ways to game the system. For starters, consider crop subsidies.

Yet the same folks who oppose helping kids will be the strongest 
supporters of payouts to giant agrabusinesses. Why?


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>The stick would only be used on companies that 
>take the incentives without producing desired results.

The telcos did that recently, but there was no stick. We got stuck with a 
charge on our monthly phone bills for something that never happened.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

When AT&T was AT&T they made money on the long distance portion of 
your Bill.  That was always the money end.  They also make money on 
Business users.


Our church pays twice as much as a residential customer because we 
are a business.  Yet we use it a lot less than a residential phone.


Plus the factor you mentioned city/rural made the big difference.

Stewart

At 11:45 AM 2/27/2009, you wrote:
I'd always go for the carrot [incentives] first before considering 
the stick [regulations or punishment].


Grants and tax breaks can be offered to companies to create and 
provide network broadband services within defined parameters within 
a reasonably limited amount of time. The stick would only be used on 
companies that take the incentives without producing desired 
results. It would also be used for price gouging, and that also 
needs to be defined considering the difference between cost and 
charges for service, plus projected subscription base.


Whether individual households use this service or not isn't 
important. The benefits to nonusers from businesses, schools and 
communities being more connected, resourceful and efficient will 
affect them positively even if they don't use broadband themselves.


BTW, if telcos never made money from residential service, how did 
they pay my dividends for so many years, including 2008? They make 
money from residential service in metropolitan areas, but not in 
rural areas. Balancing those services might make a net zero profit.


Business services are profitable. We just cancelled my dad's WATS 
line last week now that his business is shut down. It was only 
$16/mo. My cousin had a residential WATS line in the 70s that cost 
$500/mo, but she could call anywhere in the world and talk as long 
as she wanted. More businesses are using more services, at better 
rates, thus adding to the telco bottom line. I'd like to see figures 
that indicate a loss for dial tone service in metro areas.



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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[b_s-wilk]

The telcos NEVER made money from residential dialtone, and
it remains heavily regulated.  We have no choice but to provide
it but it remains a cost of doing business.

Broadband is a different story but even in that arena franchise
agreements have to be negotiated with entities as small as
counties, cities, etc. just to gain the approval needed to begin
building a network.

It can be quite frustrating to deal with all of this 8-O.

What sort of regulations would you propose to implement a
universal broadband policy? 



I'd always go for the carrot [incentives] first before considering the 
stick [regulations or punishment].


Grants and tax breaks can be offered to companies to create and provide 
network broadband services within defined parameters within a reasonably 
limited amount of time. The stick would only be used on companies that 
take the incentives without producing desired results. It would also be 
used for price gouging, and that also needs to be defined considering 
the difference between cost and charges for service, plus projected 
subscription base.


Whether individual households use this service or not isn't important. 
The benefits to nonusers from businesses, schools and communities being 
more connected, resourceful and efficient will affect them positively 
even if they don't use broadband themselves.


BTW, if telcos never made money from residential service, how did they 
pay my dividends for so many years, including 2008? They make money from 
residential service in metropolitan areas, but not in rural areas. 
Balancing those services might make a net zero profit.


Business services are profitable. We just cancelled my dad's WATS line 
last week now that his business is shut down. It was only $16/mo. My 
cousin had a residential WATS line in the 70s that cost $500/mo, but she 
could call anywhere in the world and talk as long as she wanted. More 
businesses are using more services, at better rates, thus adding to the 
telco bottom line. I'd like to see figures that indicate a loss for dial 
tone service in metro areas.



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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>The telcos NEVER made money from residential dialtone, and
>it remains heavily regulated.  We have no choice but to provide
>it but it remains a cost of doing business.

So are you are saying that without regulation to "redistribute wealth," 
many (most?) residential customers would have no telephone service?


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Eric S. Sande]

That's where incentives are needed. I know you're conservative, but do 
you object to tax incentives and subsidies to bring the US up to speed 
with other developed countries so we can compete educationally and 
industrially?


I object to a lot of things that the government does with my
money, especially lately.  I'm not in the car industry, I build
products that (some) people actually want, at a fair price.

It seems to me that to ask people who don't want a thing to pay 
for it anyway, however indirectly, is unreasonable.


Universal broadband might look something like universal service
did.  Notice that words like "nationalisation" and "monopoly"
and so forth seem to crop up a lot in that discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsbury_Commitment

The whole point of (partially) deregulating the industry was to 
spur competition and encourage innovation.  It worked, to an

extent.  But it tended to work against the interests of those who
benefitted most directly from universal service.

The telcos NEVER made money from residential dialtone, and
it remains heavily regulated.  We have no choice but to provide
it but it remains a cost of doing business.

Broadband is a different story but even in that arena franchise
agreements have to be negotiated with entities as small as
counties, cities, etc. just to gain the approval needed to begin
building a network.

It can be quite frustrating to deal with all of this 8-O.

What sort of regulations would you propose to implement a
universal broadband policy?





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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[db]

With big outages, catastrophes... the point is often you can't go 
elsewhere because of the conditions or because there is nowhere to go 
because everyone else  is trying to do the same.   

A bit of self-sufficiency is a good thing for all me thinks.

Did you see the special coverage recently re: Fargo ND?   Because of 
their well known culturally independent ways, as a business community 
they didn't buy into the economic habits/ trends of the last few years 
that everyone else was stampeding towards, so their banks are flush and 
solid now and their economy and businesses booming w. unemployment at 3%.


Depending on one all-in-one mega communication technologies for your 
everything can likewise make you vulnerable.


db

Tony B wrote:

Let's be realistic. If you have no power for a week, you're not going
to stay there. I mean, no phone is minor compared to the hassles of no
refrigerator, hot water, no heat, etc.

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:46 PM, b_s-wilk  wrote:
  

Are there third party solar battery backups for FIOS? The backup battery
included in the installation is lame--only lasts a few hours, instead of a
few days. I'd hate to be in any of the areas that had ice storms this winter
and lost their power for a week. Solar PV panels work on cloudy days, even
with ice on them; they obviously don't work in the dark.




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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[b_s-wilk]

Let's be more 21st century realistic.

I live in a solar house. One year when the outside temp went down to 
-12F, it was in the 60s indoors, upper 70s in the greenhouse. It's 
usually in the mid 60s-70s during the winter. On cloudy days, we have 
propane heat. The coldest it's ever been is 48F after we were away for 2 
weeks in the middle of winter with the water heater turned off, just 2 
cats to warm the house--pipes will never freeze. Normal winter temp 
without the propane heaters is 56-68F.


Now, are there third party solar backups for FIOS? Or DC powered backups 
coupled with generators?




Let's be realistic. If you have no power for a week, you're not going
to stay there. I mean, no phone is minor compared to the hassles of no
refrigerator, hot water, no heat, etc.

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:46 PM, b_s-wilk  wrote:

Are there third party solar battery backups for FIOS? The backup battery
included in the installation is lame--only lasts a few hours, instead of a
few days. I'd hate to be in any of the areas that had ice storms this winter
and lost their power for a week. Solar PV panels work on cloudy days, even
with ice on them; they obviously don't work in the dark.





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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

I lived pretty rurally in Northern Wisconsin a decade ago, and they 
were running a fiber optic cable from east to west along the highway 
out in front of our house.


I was told at the time that Williams was laying the fiber optic as 
part of a backbone.  Now all we had was dial up and a crummy cable 
system so I was very interested in  what was happening.


The truth is there are Fiber Optic cable all over the place, but they 
may be different levels.


What is very close to you may be a backbone and not transmitting the 
stuff you need.


Stewart


At 01:14 PM 2/26/2009, you wrote:

we have fibre up our private street serving 11 homes but I don't think
verizon owns it (some rumor it may be owned by a sub of Google) ...I hate
this and feel this is where the government has a role in seeing to it the
comm link is at a certain min level of service for all ...the downtrodden
county seat with high percentage of pub assistance and illegal farm workers
gets FIOS ...we, who pay tax to small gov entity outside city limits, don't
...what makes sense there other than the fact we pay our own bills?


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Richard P.]

Our neighbor has that natural gas whole house generator system which
was installed by the power company and works pretty well. I'm still
trying to figure out how many amps I'll lose by running a 1000-foot
extension cord to his house :)

Richard P.

> Down here a lot of folks opt for the whole house power generator backup.
>
> Natural Gas (which floes pretty much nom matter) powered generators.
>
> Stewart
>
>
> At 12:55 PM 2/26/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> Let's be realistic. If you have no power for a week, you're not going
>> to stay there. I mean, no phone is minor compared to the hassles of no
>> refrigerator, hot water, no heat, etc.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Richard P.]

Actually after the last major storm which knocked out power for
several days during the winter, I installed passive gas heaters as
backup systems which don't require electricity to operate. That
coupled with a gas water heater and stove, along with municipality
supplied water, we can make do pretty well. As a bonus, the gas
fireplace is 80% efficient which makes it comparable with the furnace
system. So all that coupled with a working POTS made life pretty
bearable without power. It's nice having alternate systems to depend
on. It was certainly better than trying to find an overbooked motel
which was crowded with stranded homeowners.

Richard P.


> Let's be realistic. If you have no power for a week, you're not going
> to stsupplied ay there. I mean, no phone is minor compared to the hassles of 
> no
> refrigerator, hot water, no heat, etc.
>

>> Are there third party solar battery backups for FIOS? The backup battery
>> included in the installation is lame--only lasts a few hours, instead of a
>> few days. I'd hate to be in any of the areas that had ice storms this winter
>> and lost their power for a week. Solar PV panels work on cloudy days, even
>> with ice on them; they obviously don't work in the dark.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Down here a lot of folks opt for the whole house power generator backup.

Natural Gas (which floes pretty much nom matter) powered generators.

Stewart


At 12:55 PM 2/26/2009, you wrote:

Let's be realistic. If you have no power for a week, you're not going
to stay there. I mean, no phone is minor compared to the hassles of no
refrigerator, hot water, no heat, etc.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

we have fibre up our private street serving 11 homes but I don't think
verizon owns it (some rumor it may be owned by a sub of Google) ...I hate
this and feel this is where the government has a role in seeing to it the
comm link is at a certain min level of service for all ...the downtrodden
county seat with high percentage of pub assistance and illegal farm workers
gets FIOS ...we, who pay tax to small gov entity outside city limits, don't
...what makes sense there other than the fact we pay our own bills?

-Original Message-
From: Mike Sloane [mailto:mikeslo...@verizon.net] 
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:04 AM
To: rleesimon
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


The Verizon technician told me that the deal with the state is: when 
they convert a central office to FIOS, they have to offer it to anyone 
in the area who is covered by that office. In other words, if you are in 
the area served by the "678" CO, whether you are next door to the 
building or 10 miles away, they have to offer you the service. In my 
case, I really am 10 miles away and in one of only a handful of houses 
on a 2 mile private road, but (according to him) when the office is 
converted, they will have to run fiber out. It is just as well, because 
the old fashioned copper cables are very expensive to install and 
maintain, and in the end fiber is a LOT cheaper than copper.

Mike

rleesimon wrote:
> They just got fios to the county seat ...in a good wind I can spit 
> into that jurisdiction ...however, we do NOT get FIOS and they say no 
> breath holding is advised ...I am with comcast now which gives me net 
> at dsl speed and free tv basic for a year ...I have never been a 
> comcast customer before ...so far it works.  My sis got FIOS triple in 
> NY area and has had trouble once and they came out and fixed it 
> quickly...her fone has backup for 7 hours I think she said ...they 
> installed that at the interface.  I think the arrival of FIOS will 
> either be good4me or it may make comcast cable give better retention 
> deals ...hopefully it will happen before the free year is up! ...bob
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Sloane [mailto:mikeslo...@verizon.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:22 PM
> Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service
> 
> 
> I agree with the concept of what you wrote, but when I lose power, the
> DSL service AND the voice line goes out about 15 minutes later (I have a 
> backup generator that keeps my house power up). It seems that I am 
> served by a local repeater that has its own battery backup - one that is 
> supposed to stay up for 8 hours but only lasts about 15 minutes. So much 
> for "good old Telco staying up when the power goes out". Still, 
> considering the years I spent with no cable service and only dial-up, I 
> am not complaining. Supposedly, FIOS is coming to our area, but I am not 
> holding my breath.
> 
> Mike
> 


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Jeff Wright]

> Are there third party solar battery backups for FIOS? The backup battery
> included in the installation is lame--only lasts a few hours, instead of a
> few days. I'd hate to be in any of the areas that had ice storms this winter
> and lost their power for a week. Solar PV panels work on cloudy days, even
> with ice on them; they obviously don't work in the dark.

Just plug in the inside "router" (for lack of a better term) that has
the battery in it into an external battery.  That's my plan if the
power goes out for longer than 8 hours.

Of course, with ice storms, that may not do you any good if lines are down.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tony B]

Let's be realistic. If you have no power for a week, you're not going
to stay there. I mean, no phone is minor compared to the hassles of no
refrigerator, hot water, no heat, etc.

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:46 PM, b_s-wilk  wrote:
> Are there third party solar battery backups for FIOS? The backup battery
> included in the installation is lame--only lasts a few hours, instead of a
> few days. I'd hate to be in any of the areas that had ice storms this winter
> and lost their power for a week. Solar PV panels work on cloudy days, even
> with ice on them; they obviously don't work in the dark.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[b_s-wilk]

Actually, the incentives for the telephone company to replace copper
pairs with fiber throughout their service area (urban or rural) are
there - the outside copper plant is aging rapidly and becoming an
expensive nightmare to maintain. I suspect the maintenance cost per
cable mile of copper is significantly higher than that of fiber. I
have been away from the telecom business for a number of years, but I
suspect that the point is rapidly approaching where conversion to
fiber isn't an option, it is a necessity. The other problem for the
telcos is that the number of customers for POTS service is decreasing
daily, which makes the cable maintenance cost per customer that much
higher - and the rates the telcos charge are regulated and based on
very basic cost per customer numbers.


Are there third party solar battery backups for FIOS? The backup battery 
included in the installation is lame--only lasts a few hours, instead of 
a few days. I'd hate to be in any of the areas that had ice storms this 
winter and lost their power for a week. Solar PV panels work on cloudy 
days, even with ice on them; they obviously don't work in the dark.



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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Mike Sloane]

Actually, the incentives for the telephone company to replace copper 
pairs with fiber throughout their service area (urban or rural) are 
there - the outside copper plant is aging rapidly and becoming an 
expensive nightmare to maintain. I suspect the maintenance cost per 
cable mile of copper is significantly higher than that of fiber. I have 
been away from the telecom business for a number of years, but I suspect 
that the point is rapidly approaching where conversion to fiber isn't an 
option, it is a necessity. The other problem for the telcos is that the 
number of customers for POTS service is decreasing daily, which makes 
the cable maintenance cost per customer that much higher - and the rates 
the telcos charge are regulated and based on very basic cost per 
customer numbers.


At one time, terminating customer fiber was a complex and expensive 
chore, but advances in the hardware have made working with fiber not 
much more complex than with copper. And fiber has the potential 
capability far beyond that of either copper pairs or coaxial cable. One 
other feature of fiber is that it is almost impossible to illegally tap 
into a customer's data stream, something unique to that media. Copper, 
co-ax, and radio, on the other hand are ridiculously easy to tap.


Mike

b_s-wilk wrote:

"Eric S. Sande"  escribió:

I don't understand why Verizon has chosen to go with only FIOS. 


I think I tried to explain this at some point.  I'll try it again.

We get a greater rate of return from an all optical network, frankly.

Yes it costs more to deploy and not everyone will choose to take
it.  That is called "take rate".  We obviously want a high "take
rate". 


Yes, the rate of return may be better for FIOS deployment in 
metropolitan areas, but in less populated areas, we may never see fiber 
installed.


That's where incentives are needed. I know you're conservative, but do 
you object to tax incentives and subsidies to bring the US up to speed 
with other developed countries so we can compete educationally and 
industrially?


Which are the other technologies that can provide competitive speeds 
[20-50Mbps] and are financially viable? Microwave? WiFi? FIOS may be 
your choice, but it's not going to happen around here for a long time, 
if ever, and I have no plans to move to DC in the near future.





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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[b_s-wilk]

"Eric S. Sande"  escribió:

I don't understand why Verizon has chosen to go with only FIOS. 


I think I tried to explain this at some point.  I'll try it again.

We get a greater rate of return from an all optical network, frankly.

Yes it costs more to deploy and not everyone will choose to take
it.  That is called "take rate".  We obviously want a high "take
rate". 


Yes, the rate of return may be better for FIOS deployment in 
metropolitan areas, but in less populated areas, we may never see fiber 
installed.


That's where incentives are needed. I know you're conservative, but do 
you object to tax incentives and subsidies to bring the US up to speed 
with other developed countries so we can compete educationally and 
industrially?


Which are the other technologies that can provide competitive speeds 
[20-50Mbps] and are financially viable? Microwave? WiFi? FIOS may be 
your choice, but it's not going to happen around here for a long time, 
if ever, and I have no plans to move to DC in the near future.



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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Eric S. Sande]

I don't understand why Verizon has chosen to go with only FIOS. 


I think I tried to explain this at some point.  I'll try it again.

We get a greater rate of return from an all optical network, frankly.

Yes it costs more to deploy and not everyone will choose to take
it.  That is called "take rate".  We obviously want a high "take
rate".

We balance that against "pass rate".  That is how fast we can
build it out.  A lot of people, surprisingly more than you think,
don't really want it, but we aren't going to cut off their normal
service if they don't wan't FiOS.

This we have to factor against rate of return compared to
capital investment over time.

Ultimately, an optical network is going to cost much less than
a copper network to maintain.  We know the maintenance
costs of a copper network are extremely high compared to
rate of return on a state of the art optical network.

And potentially worth the capital investment, which if we want
to survive as a telecommunications company we have to do
anyway.

We don't see Euro style DSL as being a viable model because
relatively speaking we have a very much larger area to cover
and a lower relative population density.

We do DSL.  But it is high maintenance over limited range.

And we have to deal with some very pesky regulatory issues.

Better to install the best that you can where you can than to
go with a halfway approach.  We want to be the TV, Internet,
and phone provider of choice, who wouldn't.

So the answer to your question is that we expect to eventually
make a profit, I guess.

And we won't do that by thinking small or going with halfway
solutions.

Nothing that I say about any of this reflects the ah, opinions
or policy of anybody but me, of course.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[b_s-wilk]

I don't understand why Verizon has chosen to go with only FIOS. Yes, 
fiber-optic has more bandwidth, but at a huge price. Since you can use 
POTS copper lines for VDSL at 100Mbps speed for a lower cost than FIOS, 
why not do both? The original cost for the DSL switches less than 8 
years ago was $1 million each. The price is down by well over 90%. How 
much do VDSL switches cost? The price is likely to go down as fast as 
for DSL, and service will be cheaper and more generally available.


Friends who have FIOS tell me that their POTS lines have been removed. 
One person said that the line is still there, but Verizon refused to 
reconnect when they said they didn't like FIOS and wanted to go back to 
copper. Seems like an opportunity for VDSL from Verizon or another 
company, just not AT&T since they charge twice as much for DSL as 
Verizon for only slightly faster service.





I have seen an article which states you can insist they leave the pots; some
say you tell them you are getting an alarm system that requires pots to work
...what they want is the copper!!

-Original Message-
From: Tom Piwowar [mailto:t...@tjpa.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:40 PM

Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


>If Verizon would include POTS in their TV/Internet/Phone package, I 
>would have signed up with them long ago


Amen. Instead they come and rip out your POTS and set you up with a tiny 
battery of uncertain reliability. Not good.



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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Eric S. Sande]

Does FIOS have backup power from the main office like POTS?


No, but neither does much of POTS if you are served out of a
remote terminal of some kind.  Which people increasingly are.

Many or most of these devices have some kind of backup and
that is where we would deploy crews first.

I think there may be a misconception here, POTS does not
necessarily describe a carrier medium.  Increasingly, the digital
edge so to speak is being pushed further from the CO.

You may still be served by CO battery/generator backup over
straight copper but it is becoming increasingly rare.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Jeff Wright]

Ours was cut right at the NID and left on the line.

> I watched my FIOS installation go in an he left the POTS line connected
> at
> the house and I don't think he disconnected us at the pole.  I wonder
> if it
> was disconnected.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

They recommended one person per congregation!

You forget how people associate sometimes.  1 per a thousand would be 
useless and would fast be overwhelmed.


Stewart

At 06:34 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote:

>Lutheran Disaster Response recommends that some within a congregation
>get a ARL and buy hand held portable radios.

Yes it is sensible for 1 person out of a 1,000 to serve the community,
but it is not a high priority for every individual. If I lived in some
remote location I would certainly up the priority. But that is not the
case for most people.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

my 3 nieces lived within a short radius of the wtc at the time of 9/11 ...we
finally reached them by cell phone even though the towers went down ...they
were able to get some service from nj ...we are forever thankful the
buildings, if they were destined to fall, did so as they did straight down.
Otherwise, those 3 great kids would all be gone as well.

-Original Message-
From: Tony B [mailto:ton...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


Certainly flaky power is a consideration when evaluating communications
systems for the home. Ours is very reliable, and when it does go out, I
don't really get any big urge to call anyone. I suppose I could have a
medical emergency during a power outage when my wife isn't home with her
cell phone, but what are the odds?

However, note that you've pointed out two occasions when VOIP/cell phones
would have worked for you but your POTS didn't. So how can you claim POTS is
more reliable?

PS The last time a tree branch came down on our line necessitating a call to
the electric company, I simply used the neighbor's cell phone. No need for
expensive POTS lines, and the POTS line would have gone down with the branch
anyway.


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:07 PM, b_s-wilk  wrote:
> they have generators. Our power goes out almost every time there's an 
> electrical storm. We use the POTS line to call the electric company. 
> Basic land line service is cheap, less than $10 a month, and much more 
> reliable than VOIP. Glad I didn't switch.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

magic jack requires a computer to work ...my voip works with only the cable
modem and the phone modem.

-Original Message-
From: b_s-wilk [mailto:b1sun...@yahoo.es] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


 > That's true. But there are two things to consider.
 > 1) POTS will go out too during emergencies, as it too is a trunked  >
system, relying on having only a few users on at a time.  > 2) On a day to
day basis, how often do catastrophes happen? Last time  > I remember the
phones not working was on 9/11, but I had POTS back  > then. I bet VOIP
would have worked fine.

That's absurd.

Our POTS line has NEVER gone out except when Comcast accidentally cut 
the line next door, and one other time when a flood shorted the switch 
down by the creek. Our phone in Maryland worked on 9/11--I called my 
sister-in-law who was working in lower Manhattan; her phone in Brooklyn 
worked OK after she finally walked home, but the lines were pretty much 
overloaded, for good reason.

VOIP is no good when the power goes out--no power, no modem, no cell 
towers. Verizon has enough backup batteries here to last for a couple of 
days, and they have generators. Our power goes out almost every time 
there's an electrical storm. We use the POTS line to call the electric 
company. Basic land line service is cheap, less than $10 a month, and 
much more reliable than VOIP. Glad I didn't switch.

> I suppose I should point out answering machines aren't compatible with 
> all systems. e.g. My MagicJack has a hard wired 4 ring limit, so you 
> would have to set your answering machine to 3 rings to trump it; not a 
> very viable solution. As I recall the more expensive VOIP systems gave 
> you more control over when your voicemail kicks in.

I can set our analog answering machine to answer after 1, 2, 3 or 4 
rings. Your MagicJack won't work when the power is out. My POTS line will.

Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

I have seen an article which states you can insist they leave the pots; some
say you tell them you are getting an alarm system that requires pots to work
...what they want is the copper!!

-Original Message-
From: Tom Piwowar [mailto:t...@tjpa.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


>If Verizon would include POTS in their TV/Internet/Phone package, I 
>would have signed up with them long ago

Amen. Instead they come and rip out your POTS and set you up with a tiny 
battery of uncertain reliability. Not good.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >If Verizon would include POTS in their TV/Internet/Phone
> >package, I would have signed up with them long ago
>
> Amen. Instead they come and rip out your POTS and set you up with a tiny
> battery of uncertain reliability. Not good.
>
>
I watched my FIOS installation go in an he left the POTS line connected at
the house and I don't think he disconnected us at the pole.  I wonder if it
was disconnected.

-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

...we just got a large race car venue here and the homeland security
apparently required the principal routes leading to/from it be covered by
cellular resulting in an app before our planning/zoning board for a tower to
cover the gulph there ...I don't think you are alone thinking the pots is
going the way of spats and vinyl and, alas, fizzies ...with adequate
redundancy and a little planning, the reliability of wireless comm continues
to grow ...I had an original motorola startac years ago which gave me signal
around 20% of the time and the ascent into rare signal loss has been steady.
I think, in the long scheme of things, the cost to maintain pots (which
will, eventually, include not only fone but also fibre and cableTV) will go
away as well in favor of wifi of some sort.  I welcome the sight of a
cityscape and countryscape free of those pesky ubiquitous wires.  I just
wish the privately owned cable/fone/TV conglomerates would get on the
bandwagon here and save us all a bundle! ...bob

-Original Message-
From: Rev. Stewart Marshall [mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


During Katrina the only way to reach many of the people in and around 
the NO area was text messaging on cell phones.

Land Lines were out, Some Cell towers were overwhelmed and the 
Internet of course was out.

During the tornado in Enterprise, AL, again Cell phones were one of 
the few communication ways going.

Cell is becoming almost as reliable as land line and in some cases better.

Stewart


At 01:43 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote:
>That's true. But there are two things to consider.
>1) POTS will go out too during emergencies, as it too is a trunked 
>system, relying on having only a few users on at a time.
>2) On a day to day basis, how often do catastrophes happen? Last time I 
>remember the phones not working was on 9/11, but I had POTS back then. 
>I bet VOIP would have worked fine.
>
>I just don't think it's realistic to base our lives around remote 
>possibilities. But if you do, then you MUST go all the way and get an 
>amateur radio license and maintain a working station with emergency 
>generators. Having a POTS line is a really false sense of security, at 
>a fairly high comparative price.

Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

They just got fios to the county seat ...in a good wind I can spit into that
jurisdiction ...however, we do NOT get FIOS and they say no breath holding
is advised ...I am with comcast now which gives me net at dsl speed and free
tv basic for a year ...I have never been a comcast customer before ...so far
it works.  My sis got FIOS triple in NY area and has had trouble once and
they came out and fixed it quickly...her fone has backup for 7 hours I think
she said ...they installed that at the interface.  I think the arrival of
FIOS will either be good4me or it may make comcast cable give better
retention deals ...hopefully it will happen before the free year is up!
...bob

-Original Message-
From: Mike Sloane [mailto:mikeslo...@verizon.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


I agree with the concept of what you wrote, but when I lose power, the 
DSL service AND the voice line goes out about 15 minutes later (I have a 
backup generator that keeps my house power up). It seems that I am 
served by a local repeater that has its own battery backup - one that is 
supposed to stay up for 8 hours but only lasts about 15 minutes. So much 
for "good old Telco staying up when the power goes out". Still, 
considering the years I spent with no cable service and only dial-up, I 
am not complaining. Supposedly, FIOS is coming to our area, but I am not 
holding my breath.

Mike

db wrote:
> Remember that with VOIP if the power goes out... VOIP will tend to go
> out too while POTS tends to be the last comm. service standing.  And in 
> times of regional crisis, cellular is typically out too.  For a period 
> after the Seattle and LA earthquakes and 9/11 all cell circuits were 
> busy. POTS has a dependability advantage not always factored  in when 
> calculating the economics...
> For that purpose, I keep a stripped down POTS line as the way to stretch 
> my cell minutes and to add dependability.
> 
> db.
> 


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Richard P.]

While cellphones don't usually go out with power, they did in the DC
area several years ago after high winds came through. The power for
the local cellphone towers went down for a couple of days but POTS
still worked the entire time (thank you Verizon!).

Richard P


 and cell phones usually don't go out with the power
> either.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tony B]

Although cable *may* go out during a power outage, it may not - people
here on the mountain tell about using their generators and being
amazed cable was still up. Besides, VOIP can also be carried over
satellite or DSL, and cell phones usually don't go out with the power
either.


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:13 PM, b_s-wilk  wrote:
> When there is no power, there's no cable.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tony B]

Certainly flaky power is a consideration when evaluating
communications systems for the home. Ours is very reliable, and when
it does go out, I don't really get any big urge to call anyone. I
suppose I could have a medical emergency during a power outage when my
wife isn't home with her cell phone, but what are the odds?

However, note that you've pointed out two occasions when VOIP/cell
phones would have worked for you but your POTS didn't. So how can you
claim POTS is more reliable?

PS The last time a tree branch came down on our line necessitating a
call to the electric company, I simply used the neighbor's cell phone.
No need for expensive POTS lines, and the POTS line would have gone
down with the branch anyway.


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:07 PM, b_s-wilk  wrote:
> they have generators. Our power goes out almost every time there's an
> electrical storm. We use the POTS line to call the electric company. Basic
> land line service is cheap, less than $10 a month, and much more reliable
> than VOIP. Glad I didn't switch.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[b_s-wilk]

I don't think that's sufficient justification to keep POTS ...just buy a
simple battery backup unit which, for the small draw of a cable modem and
the voip modem, will likely last many hours most likely longer than any
outage at least around here ...I was with ATT.net ever since they came over
from ibm.net and now with cable and voip haven't regretted it at all.


When there is no power, there's no cable. A generator or backup battery 
at your house won't make any difference if there's no outside power for 
your cable company. It might work if you have DSL and can power the modem.


Does FIOS have backup power from the main office like POTS?


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[b_s-wilk]

> That's true. But there are two things to consider.
> 1) POTS will go out too during emergencies, as it too is a trunked
> system, relying on having only a few users on at a time.
> 2) On a day to day basis, how often do catastrophes happen? Last time
> I remember the phones not working was on 9/11, but I had POTS back
> then. I bet VOIP would have worked fine.

That's absurd.

Our POTS line has NEVER gone out except when Comcast accidentally cut 
the line next door, and one other time when a flood shorted the switch 
down by the creek. Our phone in Maryland worked on 9/11--I called my 
sister-in-law who was working in lower Manhattan; her phone in Brooklyn 
worked OK after she finally walked home, but the lines were pretty much 
overloaded, for good reason.


VOIP is no good when the power goes out--no power, no modem, no cell 
towers. Verizon has enough backup batteries here to last for a couple of 
days, and they have generators. Our power goes out almost every time 
there's an electrical storm. We use the POTS line to call the electric 
company. Basic land line service is cheap, less than $10 a month, and 
much more reliable than VOIP. Glad I didn't switch.



I suppose I should point out answering machines aren't compatible with
all systems. e.g. My MagicJack has a hard wired 4 ring limit, so you
would have to set your answering machine to 3 rings to trump it; not a
very viable solution. As I recall the more expensive VOIP systems gave
you more control over when your voicemail kicks in.


I can set our analog answering machine to answer after 1, 2, 3 or 4 
rings. Your MagicJack won't work when the power is out. My POTS line will.


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>If Verizon would include POTS in their TV/Internet/Phone
>package, I would have signed up with them long ago

Amen. Instead they come and rip out your POTS and set you up with a tiny 
battery of uncertain reliability. Not good.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>Lutheran Disaster Response recommends that some within a congregation 
>get a ARL and buy hand held portable radios.

Yes it is sensible for 1 person out of a 1,000 to serve the community, 
but it is not a high priority for every individual. If I lived in some 
remote location I would certainly up the priority. But that is not the 
case for most people.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

I must say, I have DSL speed but it is the cable from the cable TV provider,
not the phone wire ...with that, I have reached the bitter end of my
personal knowledgebase...

-Original Message-
From: db [mailto:db...@att.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:42 PM
To: rleesimon
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


It's not so much your end of VOIP as the profider's.  In the case of cable
company's power ... while cable companies have batteries on some poles, from
a number years of experience with their fail-often service, I seriously
doubt, they will stay up for long if electrical  power goes down.

I wonder how DSL would be affected?

db


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Lutheran Disaster Response recommends that some within a congregation 
get a ARL and buy hand held portable radios.


For when all else fails, and all land lines, etc. fail, ARL is still 
on the air.


ARL are much easier to get than they used to be, and a decent hand 
held radio is only about 300$ and it does not get outdated like a 
cell phone does so this is a long term investment.


Stewart

At 02:31 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote:

>But if you do, then you MUST go all the way and get an
>amateur radio license and maintain a working station with emergency

Denying the reasonable by suggesting the absurd. Good thinking. Sure.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Mike Sloane]

Plain Old Telephone Service

Mike

Judy Cosler wrote:

POTS??




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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Have a digital one with 4 mail boxes.  Want it?

Stewart


At 01:47 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote:
The thing that bothers me with the new DECT 6 answering machines is 
I could not find one that would support multiple voicemail box recordings.


They used to but new models seem to have dropped that ... good for 
families capability.


db


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

During Katrina the only way to reach many of the people in and around 
the NO area was text messaging on cell phones.


Land Lines were out, Some Cell towers were overwhelmed and the 
Internet of course was out.


During the tornado in Enterprise, AL, again Cell phones were one of 
the few communication ways going.


Cell is becoming almost as reliable as land line and in some cases better.

Stewart


At 01:43 PM 2/25/2009, you wrote:

That's true. But there are two things to consider.
1) POTS will go out too during emergencies, as it too is a trunked
system, relying on having only a few users on at a time.
2) On a day to day basis, how often do catastrophes happen? Last time
I remember the phones not working was on 9/11, but I had POTS back
then. I bet VOIP would have worked fine.

I just don't think it's realistic to base our lives around remote
possibilities. But if you do, then you MUST go all the way and get an
amateur radio license and maintain a working station with emergency
generators. Having a POTS line is a really false sense of security, at
a fairly high comparative price.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Mike Sloane]

I agree with the concept of what you wrote, but when I lose power, the 
DSL service AND the voice line goes out about 15 minutes later (I have a 
backup generator that keeps my house power up). It seems that I am 
served by a local repeater that has its own battery backup - one that is 
supposed to stay up for 8 hours but only lasts about 15 minutes. So much 
for "good old Telco staying up when the power goes out". Still, 
considering the years I spent with no cable service and only dial-up, I 
am not complaining. Supposedly, FIOS is coming to our area, but I am not 
holding my breath.


Mike

db wrote:
Remember that with VOIP if the power goes out... VOIP will tend to go 
out too while POTS tends to be the last comm. service standing.  And in 
times of regional crisis, cellular is typically out too.  For a period 
after the Seattle and LA earthquakes and 9/11 all cell circuits were 
busy. POTS has a dependability advantage not always factored  in when 
calculating the economics...
For that purpose, I keep a stripped down POTS line as the way to stretch 
my cell minutes and to add dependability.


db.




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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

voip with some providers needs the computer to run it (like it is for
www.magicjack.com) ...but for the kind of voip I got, only the 2 modems need
to run; I shut down my computer system at night.  I never knew that until I
researched about it and it became one reason why I got www.phonepower.com
which has that feature.  
 
-Original Message-
From: Judy Cosler [mailto:jfcos...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:52 PM
To: rleesimon
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service



but, don't you need battery b/u for the computer also?


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:33 PM, rleesimon  wrote:


my voip has enhanced 911 service and I have a battery backup for the
modem...

-Original Message-
From: Judy Cosler [mailto:jfcos...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


don't you need/shouldn't you have a land line in case you need 911?

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Tony B  wrote:

> I don't see why not, especially since you may not be getting it from
> the local phone company right now. I assumed you were, which was why
> you were reluctant to give up the old landline. Anyway, a quick call
> to your phone company/Earthlink should answer the question and supply
> pricing info.
>
> But again, now may be the time to consider alternatives. Specifically,
> cable & satellite options. For myself, it was cheaper to drop DSL and
> go with VOIP over cable (satellite has too much latency for my gaming
> to be considered).
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Turk
> 
> wrote:
> > OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.
> >
> > If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get
> > DSL
> from my ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the phone
> lines?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>POTS??

"Plain Old Telephone Service"

Believe it of not, that is the industry term for it.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[rleesimon]

I don't think that's sufficient justification to keep POTS ...just buy a
simple battery backup unit which, for the small draw of a cable modem and
the voip modem, will likely last many hours most likely longer than any
outage at least around here ...I was with ATT.net ever since they came over
from ibm.net and now with cable and voip haven't regretted it at all.

-Original Message-
From: db [mailto:db...@att.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service


Remember that with VOIP if the power goes out... VOIP will tend to go 
out too while POTS tends to be the last comm. service standing.  And in 
times of regional crisis, cellular is typically out too.  For a period 
after the Seattle and LA earthquakes and 9/11 all cell circuits were busy. 
POTS has a dependability advantage not always factored  in when 
calculating the economics...
For that purpose, I keep a stripped down POTS line as the way to stretch 
my cell minutes and to add dependability.

db.

Tony B wrote:
> I don't see why not, especially since you may not be getting it from 
> the local phone company right now. I assumed you were, which was why 
> you were reluctant to give up the old landline. Anyway, a quick call 
> to your phone company/Earthlink should answer the question and supply 
> pricing info.
>
> But again, now may be the time to consider alternatives. Specifically, 
> cable & satellite options. For myself, it was cheaper to drop DSL and 
> go with VOIP over cable (satellite has too much latency for my gaming 
> to be considered).
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Turk 
>  wrote:
>   
>> OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.
>>
>> If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get 
>> DSL from my ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the
phone lines?
>> 
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Richard P.]

Plain Old Telephone Service, also known as analog.

Richard P.

> POTS??
>

>
>> Remember that with VOIP if the power goes out... VOIP will tend to go out
>> too while POTS tends to be the last comm. service standing.  And in times of
>> regional crisis, cellular is typically out too.  For a period after the
>> Seattle and LA earthquakes and 9/11 all cell circuits were busy. POTS has a
>> dependability advantage not always factored  in when calculating the
>> economics...
>> For that purpose, I keep a stripped down POTS line as the way to stretch my
>> cell minutes and to add dependability.
>


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Richard P.]

I've used POTS twice this month alone when the power went out(along
with the heat), while it was less than 20 degrees outside. I consider
that enough of an emergency use to be worth having and paying for. In
addition, the sound quality is superior to any non-POTS service I've
heard. If Verizon would include POTS in their TV/Internet/Phone
package, I would have signed up with them long ago.

Richard P.



> 1) POTS will go out too during emergencies, as it too is a trunked
> system, relying on having only a few users on at a time.
> 2) On a day to day basis, how often do catastrophes happen? Last time
> I remember the phones not working was on 9/11, but I had POTS back
> then. I bet VOIP would have worked fine.

>> Remember that with VOIP if the power goes out... VOIP will tend to go out
>> too while POTS tends to be the last comm. service standing.  And in times of
>> regional crisis, cellular is typically out too.  For a period after the
>> Seattle and LA earthquakes and 9/11 all cell circuits were busy. POTS has a
>> dependability advantage not always factored  in when calculating the
>> economics...
>> For that purpose, I keep a stripped down POTS line as the way to stretch my
>> cell minutes and to add dependability.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[rleesimon]

with dsl you could get www.phonepower.com which has all the features you
need and save a bundle...I got it when they had 10%off and paid for a whole
year for which they offered 2nd year free ...wow!!  It is the clearest
connection I ever had and also has online message reading as well as each
message to you as a .wav attachment in email ...the modem was free ($15 s/h)
& the customer service is in the USA and knowledgeable. ...and for calls to
our EU family, 1.7cents/min is chp!  ...I could not be more pleased.

AND...redacted private portion.
-Original Message-
From: David Turk [mailto:dt...@indianahistory.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:15 AM
Subject: DSL & answering machines


In an effort to cut back on costs, we switched our home phone service to
basic, unlimited calls-no voicemail, forwarding, call waiting, etc.  I dug
an old digital answering machine out of the closet, but it had a ton of
static on it.  I bought a small  new one (& there was only one model
available).  It seemed to work fine, but then the ends of the messages are
completely garbled by static.  Took it back, went somewhere else, bought a
different one.  Same thing.  I have filters on all the phone lines, as we
have DSL.  Could this be the problem, & how can I fix it?  tia.
   
david

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging Services
Indiana Historical Society
Eugene and Marilyn Glick Indiana History Center
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
(317) 232-4592
dt...@indianahistory.org
 


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Judy Cosler]

POTS??

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:28 PM, db  wrote:

> Remember that with VOIP if the power goes out... VOIP will tend to go out
> too while POTS tends to be the last comm. service standing.  And in times of
> regional crisis, cellular is typically out too.  For a period after the
> Seattle and LA earthquakes and 9/11 all cell circuits were busy. POTS has a
> dependability advantage not always factored  in when calculating the
> economics...
> For that purpose, I keep a stripped down POTS line as the way to stretch my
> cell minutes and to add dependability.
>
> db.
>
>
> Tony B wrote:
>
>> I don't see why not, especially since you may not be getting it from
>> the local phone company right now. I assumed you were, which was why
>> you were reluctant to give up the old landline. Anyway, a quick call
>> to your phone company/Earthlink should answer the question and supply
>> pricing info.
>>
>> But again, now may be the time to consider alternatives. Specifically,
>> cable & satellite options. For myself, it was cheaper to drop DSL and
>> go with VOIP over cable (satellite has too much latency for my gaming
>> to be considered).
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Turk 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.
>>>
>>> If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get DSL
>>> from my ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the phone
>>> lines?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[Tony B]

I suppose I should point out answering machines aren't compatible with
all systems. e.g. My MagicJack has a hard wired 4 ring limit, so you
would have to set your answering machine to 3 rings to trump it; not a
very viable solution. As I recall the more expensive VOIP systems gave
you more control over when your voicemail kicks in.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[b_s-wilk]

Where would you find a tape-based machine?  Goodwill?


We got ours at a Du Pont company surplus sale. Try eBay, craig's list? 
This is similar: http://snipurl.com/cn33l. I got one new in 1988, and 
after the cats knocked it down too many times, I got another one, used, 
and have been using for at least 10 years. I fixed the first one with 
epoxy, wire and tape.



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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>I just don't think it's realistic to base our lives around remote
>possibilities. 

I see you are from the Dick Cheney school of disaster planning, still 
waiting for the Iraquis to throw rose petals at us.

>But if you do, then you MUST go all the way and get an
>amateur radio license and maintain a working station with emergency

Denying the reasonable by suggesting the absurd. Good thinking. Sure.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[db]

The thing that bothers me with the new DECT 6 answering machines is I 
could not find one that would support multiple voicemail box recordings.


They used to but new models seem to have dropped that ... good for 
families capability.


db

b_s-wilk wrote:
We're using an old Panasonic answering machine that uses regular audio 
tapes. The messages are clear to the end, as the line is filtered. Try 
a different answering machine. I'll probably switch to the built-in 
answering feature on our Panasonic DECT 6 base station when the old 
machine dies. Both machines can be accessed from remote phones.


I like tape machines better because they hold an hour's worth of 
messages. The digital one only holds about 15 minutes--not good when 
you go away for a week or more, but both are free, as opposed to many 
online voicemail services. Newer is not always better. Sometimes low 
tech trumps high tech.


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tony B]

That's true. But there are two things to consider.
1) POTS will go out too during emergencies, as it too is a trunked
system, relying on having only a few users on at a time.
2) On a day to day basis, how often do catastrophes happen? Last time
I remember the phones not working was on 9/11, but I had POTS back
then. I bet VOIP would have worked fine.

I just don't think it's realistic to base our lives around remote
possibilities. But if you do, then you MUST go all the way and get an
amateur radio license and maintain a working station with emergency
generators. Having a POTS line is a really false sense of security, at
a fairly high comparative price.


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:28 PM, db  wrote:
> Remember that with VOIP if the power goes out... VOIP will tend to go out
> too while POTS tends to be the last comm. service standing.  And in times of
> regional crisis, cellular is typically out too.  For a period after the
> Seattle and LA earthquakes and 9/11 all cell circuits were busy. POTS has a
> dependability advantage not always factored  in when calculating the
> economics...
> For that purpose, I keep a stripped down POTS line as the way to stretch my
> cell minutes and to add dependability.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[db]

Remember that with VOIP if the power goes out... VOIP will tend to go 
out too while POTS tends to be the last comm. service standing.  And in 
times of regional crisis, cellular is typically out too.  For a period 
after the Seattle and LA earthquakes and 9/11 all cell circuits were busy. 
POTS has a dependability advantage not always factored  in when 
calculating the economics...
For that purpose, I keep a stripped down POTS line as the way to stretch 
my cell minutes and to add dependability.


db.

Tony B wrote:

I don't see why not, especially since you may not be getting it from
the local phone company right now. I assumed you were, which was why
you were reluctant to give up the old landline. Anyway, a quick call
to your phone company/Earthlink should answer the question and supply
pricing info.

But again, now may be the time to consider alternatives. Specifically,
cable & satellite options. For myself, it was cheaper to drop DSL and
go with VOIP over cable (satellite has too much latency for my gaming
to be considered).


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Turk  wrote:
  

OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.

If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get DSL from my 
ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the phone lines?




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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>One of my members has this (91 years young) and it is a god send if 
>she were to have something happen.  I am on her call list in case she 
>does not answer the monitors call back.

Cell phones can do that too. I recently bought a "big numbers" cell 
phone. It includes an emergency button that can be programmed to call 5 
numbers round-robbin until somebody answers and then it plays them a 
message.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tom Piwowar]

>If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get DSL 
>from my ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the phone lines?

Yes but they will probably charge extra for it.

Around here the phone companies have started to offer basic service for 
$10 to encourage folks to keep their land lines.


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 1:01 PM, David Turk wrote:

> Betty,
>
> Where would you find a tape-based machine?  Goodwill?
>
>
I found three by googling analog answering machine.  This is the first sales
site that came up.


-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[David Turk]

Betty,

Where would you find a tape-based machine?  Goodwill?

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging Services
Indiana Historical Society
Eugene and Marilyn Glick Indiana History Center
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
(317) 232-4592
dt...@indianahistory.org
 

-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On 
Behalf Of b_s-wilk
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:55 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Spam:Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

We're using an old Panasonic answering machine that uses regular audio 
tapes. The messages are clear to the end, as the line is filtered. Try a 
different answering machine. I'll probably switch to the built-in 
answering feature on our Panasonic DECT 6 base station when the old 
machine dies. Both machines can be accessed from remote phones.

I like tape machines better because they hold an hour's worth of 
messages. The digital one only holds about 15 minutes--not good when you 
go away for a week or more, but both are free, as opposed to many online 
voicemail services. Newer is not always better. Sometimes low tech 
trumps high tech.

Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[b_s-wilk]

We're using an old Panasonic answering machine that uses regular audio 
tapes. The messages are clear to the end, as the line is filtered. Try a 
different answering machine. I'll probably switch to the built-in 
answering feature on our Panasonic DECT 6 base station when the old 
machine dies. Both machines can be accessed from remote phones.


I like tape machines better because they hold an hour's worth of 
messages. The digital one only holds about 15 minutes--not good when you 
go away for a week or more, but both are free, as opposed to many online 
voicemail services. Newer is not always better. Sometimes low tech 
trumps high tech.


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

There are a variety of those services and some are marketed by the 
Burglar alarm folks.


(Help I have fallen and I can't get up.)

One of my members has this (91 years young) and it is a god send if 
she were to have something happen.  I am on her call list in case she 
does not answer the monitors call back.


Stewart


At 11:01 AM 2/25/2009, you wrote:

like 'Home Alone'?? not sure of the name.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Judy Cosler]

like 'Home Alone'?? not sure of the name.

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Tony B  wrote:

> No, all the VOIP services offer 911 now. Only difference is you must
> keep it updated - if you move, or if you're traveling, you change it.
>
> I don't have a cell phone so I have no idea how 911 works on all those
> different networks.
>
> Of course, if you *expect* trouble, say in the case of an ailing
> elderly parent, you may want to go even a step further than a landline
> 911. There are services available for that, and I think they use
> satellite.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Judy Cosler  wrote:
> > don't you need/shouldn't you have a land line in case you need 911?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[Michael S. Altus]

 David Turk wrote: 
In an effort to cut back on costs, we switched our home phone service to 
basic, unlimited calls-no voicemail, forwarding, call waiting, etc.  I dug an 
old 
digital answering machine out of the closet, but it had a ton of static on it. 
 I bought a small new one (& there was only one model available).  It seemed 
to work fine, but then the ends of the messages are completely garbled by 
static.  Took it back, went somewhere else, bought a different one.  Same 
thing.  
I have filters on all the phone lines, as we have DSL.  Could this be the 
problem, & how can I fix it?  tia.

You could try adding additional filters in series. Might help.

Michael

Michael S. Altus, PhD, ELS
Intensive Care Communications, Inc.®
Biomedical Writing and Editing
al...@intensivecarecomm.com
www.intensivecarecomm.com


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

E911 can be used from a Cell phone or the VOIP services.  (It is required)

There was just a stink down here in one of the municipalities that 
the Cell phone providers had not been giving them the info for E911 
system to work effectively.


But it should not matter if it is VOIP or land line they are all 
supposed to be E911 compliant.


Stewart


At 10:30 AM 2/25/2009, you wrote:

don't you need/shouldn't you have a land line in case you need 911?

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Tony B  wrote:

> I don't see why not, especially since you may not be getting it from
> the local phone company right now. I assumed you were, which was why
> you were reluctant to give up the old landline. Anyway, a quick call
> to your phone company/Earthlink should answer the question and supply
> pricing info.
>
> But again, now may be the time to consider alternatives. Specifically,
> cable & satellite options. For myself, it was cheaper to drop DSL and
> go with VOIP over cable (satellite has too much latency for my gaming
> to be considered).
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Turk 
> wrote:
> > OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.
> >
> > If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get DSL
> from my ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the phone
> lines?
>
>
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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tony B]

No, all the VOIP services offer 911 now. Only difference is you must
keep it updated - if you move, or if you're traveling, you change it.

I don't have a cell phone so I have no idea how 911 works on all those
different networks.

Of course, if you *expect* trouble, say in the case of an ailing
elderly parent, you may want to go even a step further than a landline
911. There are services available for that, and I think they use
satellite.


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Judy Cosler  wrote:
> don't you need/shouldn't you have a land line in case you need 911?


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Judy Cosler]

don't you need/shouldn't you have a land line in case you need 911?

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Tony B  wrote:

> I don't see why not, especially since you may not be getting it from
> the local phone company right now. I assumed you were, which was why
> you were reluctant to give up the old landline. Anyway, a quick call
> to your phone company/Earthlink should answer the question and supply
> pricing info.
>
> But again, now may be the time to consider alternatives. Specifically,
> cable & satellite options. For myself, it was cheaper to drop DSL and
> go with VOIP over cable (satellite has too much latency for my gaming
> to be considered).
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Turk 
> wrote:
> > OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.
> >
> > If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get DSL
> from my ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the phone
> lines?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Tony B]

I don't see why not, especially since you may not be getting it from
the local phone company right now. I assumed you were, which was why
you were reluctant to give up the old landline. Anyway, a quick call
to your phone company/Earthlink should answer the question and supply
pricing info.

But again, now may be the time to consider alternatives. Specifically,
cable & satellite options. For myself, it was cheaper to drop DSL and
go with VOIP over cable (satellite has too much latency for my gaming
to be considered).


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Turk  wrote:
> OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.
>
> If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get DSL from 
> my ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the phone lines?


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

It depends.

My daughter and S-I-L recently installed DSL and have no land line phone.

Local Phone company is pushing their DSL service even if you desire 
no landline phone.


Got a great introductory rate, 19.95 per month for 1.5 service.

Stewart


At 10:02 AM 2/25/2009, you wrote:

OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.

If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get 
DSL from my ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the 
phone lines?


  david

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging Services
Indiana Historical Society
Eugene and Marilyn Glick Indiana History Center
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
(317) 232-4592
dt...@indianahistory.org


-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List 
[mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of Tony B

Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:52 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Spam:Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

I think, in 2009, you may be going at the problem the wrong way. As
you've discovered, answering machines went out way back in the 90s.
Really, you've got to start thinking outside the old phone company
box. Assuming you don't already have good cell reception at home, even
Vonage's basic service would likely be a fraction of the cost and
would include voice mail.
http://www.vonage.com/
http://voipo.com/
http://www.magicjack.com/


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines/DSL & phone service

[David Turk]

OK, here's something I've been wondering for awhile.

If I discontinue my home phone service, will I still be able to get DSL from my 
ISP (Earthlink in this case), since it comes in over the phone lines?

  david

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging Services
Indiana Historical Society
Eugene and Marilyn Glick Indiana History Center
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
(317) 232-4592
dt...@indianahistory.org
 

-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List [mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On 
Behalf Of Tony B
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:52 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Spam:Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

I think, in 2009, you may be going at the problem the wrong way. As
you've discovered, answering machines went out way back in the 90s.
Really, you've got to start thinking outside the old phone company
box. Assuming you don't already have good cell reception at home, even
Vonage's basic service would likely be a fraction of the cost and
would include voice mail.
http://www.vonage.com/
http://voipo.com/
http://www.magicjack.com/


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[Tony B]

I think, in 2009, you may be going at the problem the wrong way. As
you've discovered, answering machines went out way back in the 90s.
Really, you've got to start thinking outside the old phone company
box. Assuming you don't already have good cell reception at home, even
Vonage's basic service would likely be a fraction of the cost and
would include voice mail.
http://www.vonage.com/
http://voipo.com/
http://www.magicjack.com/


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Re: [CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[Tom Piwowar]

If it were a DSL filtering problem you would have the static all the 
time. A problem with the ends of messages would have me suspect the 
machine, but if you tried two new machines I don't think it is that. It 
could be a problem with the signaling that tells the machine the call is 
over, but I don't know enough about telephones to diagnose that.

>In an effort to cut back on costs, we switched our home phone service to 
>basic, unlimited calls-no voicemail, forwarding, call waiting, etc.  I dug 
>an old digital answering machine out of the closet, but it had a ton of 
>static on it.  I bought a small  new one (& there was only one model 
>available).  It seemed to work fine, but then the ends of the messages are 
>completely garbled by static.  Took it back, went somewhere else, bought a 
>different one.  Same thing.  I have filters on all the phone lines, as we 
>have DSL.  Could this be the problem, & how can I fix it?  tia.


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[CGUYS] DSL & answering machines

[David Turk]

In an effort to cut back on costs, we switched our home phone service to basic, 
unlimited calls-no voicemail, forwarding, call waiting, etc.  I dug an old 
digital answering machine out of the closet, but it had a ton of static on it.  
I bought a small  new one (& there was only one model available).  It seemed to 
work fine, but then the ends of the messages are completely garbled by static.  
Took it back, went somewhere else, bought a different one.  Same thing.  I have 
filters on all the phone lines, as we have DSL.  Could this be the problem, & 
how can I fix it?  tia.
   
david

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging Services
Indiana Historical Society
Eugene and Marilyn Glick Indiana History Center
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
(317) 232-4592
dt...@indianahistory.org
 


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