subject:"su"

Re: [OT] VMware vende su negocio enfocado a usaurios finales

2024-03-05 Thread Juan carlos Rebate

Pues se me terminó el chollo, no uso vbox porque funciona criminalmente
lento a pesar de contar con un i7 gen 13 y una GPU rtx. Y de qemu ni
hablamos a pesar de tener kvm vmware es el que mejor funciona (con algunos
fallos de red) pero aceptables. Alguna alternativa? O si alguien me dice
como acelerar vbox

El mar., 5 mar. 2024 19:57, Camaleón  escribió:

> El 2024-03-04 a las 20:47 +0100, Juan carlos Rebate escribió:
>
> > > Pues eso, ojo avizor quienes uséis productos de VMware que Broadcom
> > > está empezando a hacer caja «soltando lastre»:
> > >
> > > Broadcom Sells VMware's End-User Computing Division for $4bn
> > > https://news.itsfoss.com/broadcom-vmware-euc/
> > >
> > > KKR comprará la unidad de informática de usuario final de Broadcom por
> > > 4.000 millones de dólares
> > >
> > >
> https://es.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/kkr-comprara-la-unidad-de-informatica-de-usuario-final-de-broadcom-por-4000-millones-de-dolares-93CH-2581920
>
> > Dejarán workstation discontinuado? Lo empeorarán aún más? Se sabe algo?
>
> Supongo que te refieres a VMware Workstation Player/Pro¹, pero ni idea
> de lo que le va a deparar los hipervisores.
>
> Entiendo que por el tipo de empresa que _intuyo_ es KKR va a por la
> pasta y poco más; es decir, a por el negocio dirigido a las empresas y
> el modelo de suscripciones (SaaS).
>
> ¹https://www.vmware.com/products/workstation-player.html
>
> Saludos,
>
> --
> Camaleón
>
>

Re: [OT] VMware vende su negocio enfocado a usaurios finales

2024-03-05 Thread Camaleón

El 2024-03-04 a las 20:47 +0100, Juan carlos Rebate escribió:

> > Pues eso, ojo avizor quienes uséis productos de VMware que Broadcom
> > está empezando a hacer caja «soltando lastre»:
> >
> > Broadcom Sells VMware's End-User Computing Division for $4bn
> > https://news.itsfoss.com/broadcom-vmware-euc/
> >
> > KKR comprará la unidad de informática de usuario final de Broadcom por
> > 4.000 millones de dólares
> >
> > https://es.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/kkr-comprara-la-unidad-de-informatica-de-usuario-final-de-broadcom-por-4000-millones-de-dolares-93CH-2581920

> Dejarán workstation discontinuado? Lo empeorarán aún más? Se sabe algo?

Supongo que te refieres a VMware Workstation Player/Pro¹, pero ni idea 
de lo que le va a deparar los hipervisores. 

Entiendo que por el tipo de empresa que _intuyo_ es KKR va a por la 
pasta y poco más; es decir, a por el negocio dirigido a las empresas y 
el modelo de suscripciones (SaaS).

¹https://www.vmware.com/products/workstation-player.html

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Re: [OT] VMware vende su negocio enfocado a usaurios finales

2024-03-04 Thread Juan carlos Rebate

Dejarán workstation discontinuado? Lo empeorarán aún más? Se sabe algo?

El mié., 28 feb. 2024 11:57, Camaleón  escribió:

> Hola,
>
> Pues eso, ojo avizor quienes uséis productos de VMware que Broadcom
> está empezando a hacer caja «soltando lastre»:
>
> Broadcom Sells VMware's End-User Computing Division for $4bn
> https://news.itsfoss.com/broadcom-vmware-euc/
>
> KKR comprará la unidad de informática de usuario final de Broadcom por
> 4.000 millones de dólares
>
> https://es.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/kkr-comprara-la-unidad-de-informatica-de-usuario-final-de-broadcom-por-4000-millones-de-dolares-93CH-2581920
>
> Saludos,
>
> --
> Camaleón
>
>

[OT] VMware vende su negocio enfocado a usaurios finales

2024-02-28 Thread Camaleón

Hola,

Pues eso, ojo avizor quienes uséis productos de VMware que Broadcom 
está empezando a hacer caja «soltando lastre»:

Broadcom Sells VMware's End-User Computing Division for $4bn
https://news.itsfoss.com/broadcom-vmware-euc/

KKR comprará la unidad de informática de usuario final de Broadcom por 4.000 
millones de dólares 
https://es.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/kkr-comprara-la-unidad-de-informatica-de-usuario-final-de-broadcom-por-4000-millones-de-dolares-93CH-2581920

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-15 Thread chris

Bump?

On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 3:29 PM chris  wrote:

> Yes there are many updated kernels to choose from. Please go ahead and do
> so
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 8:21 AM Schwibinger Michael 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>> I found out
>> I do use an old kernel.
>>
>> Can LINUX update a kernel?
>>
>> Regards
>> Sophie
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Von:* chris 
>> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 7. Februar 2024 19:35
>> *An:* Schwibinger Michael 
>> *Betreff:* Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
>>
>> Very helpful ty
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 1:57 PM Schwibinger Michael 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Good afternoon.
>>
>> The bug report
>>
>> sudo ...
>> You are not in the sudoers file.
>> Regards
>> Sophie
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Von:* Hans 
>> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 18:44
>> *An:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
>> *Betreff:* Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
>>
>>
>> Am Freitag, 26. Januar 2024, 17:23:07 CET schrieben Sie:
>>
>> Yes, if you want to install soemthing for example by using the apt
>> command, best way is becoming root with the command "su -" and then install
>> the rquired package.
>>
>>
>> Example:
>>
>> su -  then enter the password of the user root
>>
>>
>> If installing for example firefox, first read the repository:
>>
>>
>> apt update
>>
>>
>> then install the package
>>
>>
>> apt install firefox-esr
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>>
>> Hint: If you want a graphical method and you have no X and Wndow-Manager
>> running (like KDE, Gnome, XFCE whatever), I suggest using aptitude.
>>
>>
>> You have to install aptitude first:
>>
>>
>> apt install aptitude
>>
>>
>> Then you can start the gui with the command "aptitude" as root.
>>
>>
>> Hint 2: aptitude is controlled by keypresses without any enter-key.
>>
>> For example, when started aptitude, just press the "u" key and it reads
>> the update, "U" (Shift + u)  marks all newer packages automatically to be
>> updated, then press "g" and you will shwo, what it will do. Press "g"
>> again, and it will do the update.
>>
>>
>> Please note: If you want to upgrade the whole sytem, then using apt or
>> apt-get will be the better choice!
>>
>>
>> But aptitude is very well for installing single packages or weekly
>> upgrades, where not much packages will be renewed.
>>
>>
>> If you are not much experienced, and you have a window-manager running
>> like KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE or another one, then look at synaptic. Synaptic
>> is a graphical tool for installing packages, it is a GUI for apt.
>>
>>
>> Synaptic MUST run as root.
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>>
>> By the way: I believe, you are not very experienced in English language,
>> so I suggest to suscribe in the fine German forum,
>>
>> which is debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org.
>>
>>
>> Here is the link:
>>
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/
>>
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>
>>
>> > Sorry
>>
>> > it was my mistake
>>
>> >
>>
>> > It is
>>
>> >
>>
>> > su -
>>
>> > su
>>
>> > or sudo.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Sorry.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Is su -
>>
>> > the best for install?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Regards
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Sophie
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 
>>
>> >
>>
>>

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-14 Thread chris

Yes there are many updated kernels to choose from. Please go ahead and do so



On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 8:21 AM Schwibinger Michael 
wrote:

> Yes.
>
>
> I found out
> I do use an old kernel.
>
> Can LINUX update a kernel?
>
> Regards
> Sophie
>
>
> --
> *Von:* chris 
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 7. Februar 2024 19:35
> *An:* Schwibinger Michael 
> *Betreff:* Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
>
> Very helpful ty
>
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 1:57 PM Schwibinger Michael  wrote:
>
> Good afternoon.
>
> The bug report
>
> sudo ...
> You are not in the sudoers file.
> Regards
> Sophie
>
>
> --
> *Von:* Hans 
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 18:44
> *An:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> *Betreff:* Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
>
>
> Am Freitag, 26. Januar 2024, 17:23:07 CET schrieben Sie:
>
> Yes, if you want to install soemthing for example by using the apt
> command, best way is becoming root with the command "su -" and then install
> the rquired package.
>
>
> Example:
>
> su -  then enter the password of the user root
>
>
> If installing for example firefox, first read the repository:
>
>
> apt update
>
>
> then install the package
>
>
> apt install firefox-esr
>
>
> -
>
>
> Hint: If you want a graphical method and you have no X and Wndow-Manager
> running (like KDE, Gnome, XFCE whatever), I suggest using aptitude.
>
>
> You have to install aptitude first:
>
>
> apt install aptitude
>
>
> Then you can start the gui with the command "aptitude" as root.
>
>
> Hint 2: aptitude is controlled by keypresses without any enter-key.
>
> For example, when started aptitude, just press the "u" key and it reads
> the update, "U" (Shift + u)  marks all newer packages automatically to be
> updated, then press "g" and you will shwo, what it will do. Press "g"
> again, and it will do the update.
>
>
> Please note: If you want to upgrade the whole sytem, then using apt or
> apt-get will be the better choice!
>
>
> But aptitude is very well for installing single packages or weekly
> upgrades, where not much packages will be renewed.
>
>
> If you are not much experienced, and you have a window-manager running
> like KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE or another one, then look at synaptic. Synaptic
> is a graphical tool for installing packages, it is a GUI for apt.
>
>
> Synaptic MUST run as root.
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> By the way: I believe, you are not very experienced in English language,
> so I suggest to suscribe in the fine German forum,
>
> which is debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org.
>
>
> Here is the link:
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/
>
>
> Good luck!
>
>
> Hans
>
>
>
> > Sorry
>
> > it was my mistake
>
> >
>
> > It is
>
> >
>
> > su -
>
> > su
>
> > or sudo.
>
> >
>
> > Sorry.
>
> >
>
> > Is su -
>
> > the best for install?
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Sophie
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 
>
> >
>
>

Can Linux update an old kernel [WAS Re: AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work]

2024-02-10 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 01:21:55PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Yes.
> 
> 
> I found out
> I do use an old kernel.
> 
> Can LINUX update a kernel?
> 

Hi Sophie,

Yes, of course. As root/sudo user, apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade

But you still don't give anybody any actual *details*

All best, as ever,

Andy

> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> 
> 
> Von: chris 
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. Februar 2024 19:35
> An: Schwibinger Michael 
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> Very helpful ty
> 
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 1:57 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Good afternoon.
> 
> The bug report
> 
> sudo ...
> You are not in the sudoers file.
> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Hans mailto:hans.ullr...@loop.de>>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 18:44
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org<mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org> 
> mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> 
> Am Freitag, 26. Januar 2024, 17:23:07 CET schrieben Sie:
> 
> Yes, if you want to install soemthing for example by using the apt command, 
> best way is becoming root with the command "su -" and then install the 
> rquired package.
> 
> 
> Example:
> 
> su -  then enter the password of the user root
> 
> 
> If installing for example firefox, first read the repository:
> 
> 
> apt update
> 
> 
> then install the package
> 
> 
> apt install firefox-esr
> 
> 
> -
> 
> 
> Hint: If you want a graphical method and you have no X and Wndow-Manager 
> running (like KDE, Gnome, XFCE whatever), I suggest using aptitude.
> 
> 
> You have to install aptitude first:
> 
> 
> apt install aptitude
> 
> 
> Then you can start the gui with the command "aptitude" as root.
> 
> 
> Hint 2: aptitude is controlled by keypresses without any enter-key.
> 
> For example, when started aptitude, just press the "u" key and it reads the 
> update, "U" (Shift + u)  marks all newer packages automatically to be 
> updated, then press "g" and you will shwo, what it will do. Press "g" again, 
> and it will do the update.
> 
> 
> Please note: If you want to upgrade the whole sytem, then using apt or 
> apt-get will be the better choice!
> 
> 
> But aptitude is very well for installing single packages or weekly upgrades, 
> where not much packages will be renewed.
> 
> 
> If you are not much experienced, and you have a window-manager running like 
> KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE or another one, then look at synaptic. Synaptic is a 
> graphical tool for installing packages, it is a GUI for apt.
> 
> 
> Synaptic MUST run as root.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> By the way: I believe, you are not very experienced in English language, so I 
> suggest to suscribe in the fine German forum,
> 
> which is 
> debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org<mailto:debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org>.
> 
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/
> 
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> 
> > Sorry
> 
> > it was my mistake
> 
> >
> 
> > It is
> 
> >
> 
> > su -
> 
> > su
> 
> > or sudo.
> 
> >
> 
> > Sorry.
> 
> >
> 
> > Is su -
> 
> > the best for install?
> 
> >
> 
> > Regards
> 
> >
> 
> > Sophie
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > 
> 
> >

AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-10 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Yes.

I found out
I do use an old kernel.

Can LINUX update a kernel?

Regards
Sophie

Von: chris 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. Februar 2024 19:35
An: Schwibinger Michael 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

Very helpful ty

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 1:57 PM Schwibinger Michael 
mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Good afternoon.

The bug report

sudo ...
You are not in the sudoers file.
Regards
Sophie

Von: Hans mailto:hans.ullr...@loop.de>>
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 18:44
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org<mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org> 
mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

Am Freitag, 26. Januar 2024, 17:23:07 CET schrieben Sie:

Yes, if you want to install soemthing for example by using the apt command, 
best way is becoming root with the command "su -" and then install the rquired 
package.

Example:

su -  then enter the password of the user root

If installing for example firefox, first read the repository:

apt update

then install the package

apt install firefox-esr

-

Hint: If you want a graphical method and you have no X and Wndow-Manager 
running (like KDE, Gnome, XFCE whatever), I suggest using aptitude.

You have to install aptitude first:

apt install aptitude

Then you can start the gui with the command "aptitude" as root.

Hint 2: aptitude is controlled by keypresses without any enter-key.

For example, when started aptitude, just press the "u" key and it reads the 
update, "U" (Shift + u)  marks all newer packages automatically to be updated, 
then press "g" and you will shwo, what it will do. Press "g" again, and it will 
do the update.

Please note: If you want to upgrade the whole sytem, then using apt or apt-get 
will be the better choice!

But aptitude is very well for installing single packages or weekly upgrades, 
where not much packages will be renewed.

If you are not much experienced, and you have a window-manager running like 
KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE or another one, then look at synaptic. Synaptic is a 
graphical tool for installing packages, it is a GUI for apt.

Synaptic MUST run as root.

Hope this helps.

By the way: I believe, you are not very experienced in English language, so I 
suggest to suscribe in the fine German forum,

which is 
debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org<mailto:debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org>.

Here is the link:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/

Good luck!

Hans

> Sorry

> it was my mistake

>

> It is

>

> su -

> su

> or sudo.

>

> Sorry.

>

> Is su -

> the best for install?

>

> Regards

>

> Sophie

>

>

> 

>

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-07 Thread chris

Nobody has ever used it no

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 2:17 PM Schwibinger Michael  wrote:

>
> Good afternoon
>
> I did send the bugreport.
>
> Thank You.
> Did anybody use the rescue mode?
>
> Regards Sophie
>
>
> --
> *Von:* Andrew M.A. Cater 
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2024 20:36
> *An:* debian-user@lists.debian.org ;
> Schwibinger Michael 
> *Betreff:* Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:58:41PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon
> > I think
> > maybe Im sure
> > it is because of rescue mode.
> >
> Hi Sophie,
>
> Once again: we need to you to show us what commands you run.
>
> We need to see error messages.
>
> if you cannot run sudo or su, we need you to run the id command
> as previously suggested.
>
> We have literally nothing of use from you to help any of us problem
> solve. This is throwing good effort away in persuading you to help us.
>
> Also - please address requests first to the list and not to individuals -
> it makes it a lot easier to follow on the list.
>
> > Normal booting did not have this problem.
> >
> > Anybody familiar with panic?
> >
> > Regards
> > Thank You
> > Sophie
> >
> Andy
> >
> > 
> > Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2024 18:40
> > An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > > Good afternoon
> > > Why do I have to open a group?
> > >
> >
> > This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
> > and sudo
> >
> > Running the
> >
> > id
> >
> > command should give you information like
> >
> > uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)
> >
> > which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the
> > machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
> > users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of
> su.
> >
> > /etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
> > Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
> > modified from Debian defaults)
> >
> > # User privilege specification
> > rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> >
> > # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
> > %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> >
> > # See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:
> >
> > @includedir /etc/sudoers.d
> > (END)
> >
> > If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
> > use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
> > (once) to add your user name to the group.
> >
> > For example: adduser sophie sudo
> >
> > I hope this helps
> >
> > > 2 years ago
> > > sudo was no problem.
> > >
> >
> > As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to
> > break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or
> > how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.
> >
> > Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
> > use their knowledge to help you.
> >
> > With every good wish, as ever,
> >
> > Andy
> > (amaca...@debian.org)
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Sophie
> > >
> > > Thank You
> > > 
> > > Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> > > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> > > An: Schwibinger Michael 
> > > Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org <
> debian-user@lists.debian.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael  <mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > > Thank You
> > > Example
> > > I say
> > >
> > > sudo apt-get install firefox
> > > Reaction LINUX
> > > This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
> > >
> > > This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.
> > >
> > > Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
> > > groups
> > >
> > > Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will
> need to run it as root.

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-07 Thread chris

Very helpful ty

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 1:57 PM Schwibinger Michael  wrote:

> Good afternoon.
>
> The bug report
>
> sudo ...
> You are not in the sudoers file.
> Regards
> Sophie
>
>
> --
> *Von:* Hans 
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 18:44
> *An:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> *Betreff:* Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
>
>
> Am Freitag, 26. Januar 2024, 17:23:07 CET schrieben Sie:
>
> Yes, if you want to install soemthing for example by using the apt
> command, best way is becoming root with the command "su -" and then install
> the rquired package.
>
>
> Example:
>
> su -  then enter the password of the user root
>
>
> If installing for example firefox, first read the repository:
>
>
> apt update
>
>
> then install the package
>
>
> apt install firefox-esr
>
>
> -
>
>
> Hint: If you want a graphical method and you have no X and Wndow-Manager
> running (like KDE, Gnome, XFCE whatever), I suggest using aptitude.
>
>
> You have to install aptitude first:
>
>
> apt install aptitude
>
>
> Then you can start the gui with the command "aptitude" as root.
>
>
> Hint 2: aptitude is controlled by keypresses without any enter-key.
>
> For example, when started aptitude, just press the "u" key and it reads
> the update, "U" (Shift + u)  marks all newer packages automatically to be
> updated, then press "g" and you will shwo, what it will do. Press "g"
> again, and it will do the update.
>
>
> Please note: If you want to upgrade the whole sytem, then using apt or
> apt-get will be the better choice!
>
>
> But aptitude is very well for installing single packages or weekly
> upgrades, where not much packages will be renewed.
>
>
> If you are not much experienced, and you have a window-manager running
> like KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE or another one, then look at synaptic. Synaptic
> is a graphical tool for installing packages, it is a GUI for apt.
>
>
> Synaptic MUST run as root.
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> By the way: I believe, you are not very experienced in English language,
> so I suggest to suscribe in the fine German forum,
>
> which is debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org.
>
>
> Here is the link:
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/
>
>
> Good luck!
>
>
> Hans
>
>
>
> > Sorry
>
> > it was my mistake
>
> >
>
> > It is
>
> >
>
> > su -
>
> > su
>
> > or sudo.
>
> >
>
> > Sorry.
>
> >
>
> > Is su -
>
> > the best for install?
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Sophie
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 
>
> >
>

Request for output of commands [WAS Re: AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work]

2024-02-07 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 02:15:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon
> 
> I did send the bugreport.
> 
> Thank You.
> Did anybody use the rescue mode?
> 
> Regards Sophie
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2024 20:36
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org ; Schwibinger 
> Michael 
> Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:58:41PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon
> > I think
> > maybe Im sure
> > it is because of rescue mode.
> >
> Hi Sophie,
> 
> Once again: we need to you to show us what commands you run.
> 
> We need to see error messages.
> 
> if you cannot run sudo or su, we need you to run the id command
> as previously suggested.
> 

Where is the output of the id command?

The other message you quote suggests that you aren't in the sudo group

*Show the error messages*


> Also - please address requests first to the list and not to individuals -
> it makes it a lot easier to follow on the list.
> 

>From the output of my mailer: you sent first to me, copy to the list -
could you please do this the other way round as requested. It is more
important for the list to see this - and it also means that there is
no personal reply sent to the list by mistake: any personal reply is
intended as such.

> > Normal booting did not have this problem.
> >
> > Anybody familiar with panic?
> >

Yes: a (kernel) panic can have many causes: if you can give us meaningful
responses, we may be able to help. In the absence of these, you only
get guesses - wheich may or may not be helpful.

Again, as previously requested, please use meaningful subjects on your
emails so that we can deal with one issue at a time.

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)


> > Regards
> > Thank You
> > Sophie
> >
> Andy
> >
> > 
> > Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2024 18:40
> > An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > > Good afternoon
> > > Why do I have to open a group?
> > >
> >
> > This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
> > and sudo
> >
> > Running the
> >
> > id
> >
> > command should give you information like
> >
> > uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)
> >
> > which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the
> > machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
> > users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.
> >
> > /etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
> > Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
> > modified from Debian defaults)
> >
> > # User privilege specification
> > rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> >
> > # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
> > %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> >
> > # See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:
> >
> > @includedir /etc/sudoers.d
> > (END)
> >
> > If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
> > use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
> > (once) to add your user name to the group.
> >
> > For example: adduser sophie sudo
> >
> > I hope this helps
> >
> > > 2 years ago
> > > sudo was no problem.
> > >
> >
> > As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to
> > break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or
> > how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.
> >
> > Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
> > use their knowledge to help you.
> >
> > With every good wish, as ever,
> >
> > Andy
> > (amaca...@debian.org)
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Sophie
> > >
> > > Thank You
> > > 
> > > Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> > > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> > > An: Schwibinger Michael 
> > > Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > > 
> > > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> > > mailto

AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-07 Thread Schwibinger Michael


Good afternoon

I did send the bugreport.

Thank You.
Did anybody use the rescue mode?

Regards Sophie



Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Januar 2024 20:36
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org ; Schwibinger 
Michael 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:58:41PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> I think
> maybe Im sure
> it is because of rescue mode.
>
Hi Sophie,

Once again: we need to you to show us what commands you run.

We need to see error messages.

if you cannot run sudo or su, we need you to run the id command
as previously suggested.

We have literally nothing of use from you to help any of us problem
solve. This is throwing good effort away in persuading you to help us.

Also - please address requests first to the list and not to individuals -
it makes it a lot easier to follow on the list.

> Normal booting did not have this problem.
>
> Anybody familiar with panic?
>
> Regards
> Thank You
> Sophie
>
Andy
>
> 
> Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2024 18:40
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work
>
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon
> > Why do I have to open a group?
> >
>
> This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
> and sudo
>
> Running the
>
> id
>
> command should give you information like
>
> uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)
>
> which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the
> machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
> users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.
>
> /etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
> Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
> modified from Debian defaults)
>
> # User privilege specification
> rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
>
> # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
> %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
>
> # See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:
>
> @includedir /etc/sudoers.d
> (END)
>
> If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
> use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
> (once) to add your user name to the group.
>
> For example: adduser sophie sudo
>
> I hope this helps
>
> > 2 years ago
> > sudo was no problem.
> >
>
> As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to
> break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or
> how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.
>
> Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
> use their knowledge to help you.
>
> With every good wish, as ever,
>
> Andy
> (amaca...@debian.org)
> > Regards
> >
> > Sophie
> >
> > Thank You
> > 
> > Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> > An: Schwibinger Michael 
> > Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > 
> > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> > mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > Thank You
> > Example
> > I say
> >
> > sudo apt-get install firefox
> > Reaction LINUX
> > This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
> >
> > This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.
> >
> > Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
> > groups
> >
> > Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will need 
> > to run it as root.
> > usermod -a -G sudo 
> >
> > I do open root terminal
> > there its working.
> > Regards
> > Sophie
> >
> > 
> > Von: Greg Wooledge mailto:g...@wooledge.org>>
> > Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
> > An: debian-user@lists.debian.org<mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org> 
> > mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
> > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > > Good afternoon.
> > > Root terminal is fine.
> > > What do I do wrong?
> > > What did I destroy?
> > >
> > > PC does have only one user=admin.
> > >
> > > Regar

AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-07 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Its no fun
its not dangerous.
I do use the root terminal.

I dont use my real name in www,
to much SPAM then.

Regards
Sophie

Problem is cause of the panic.

Von: Andy Smith 
Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Januar 2024 09:47
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

Hi Hans,

On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 10:23:09AM +0100, Hans wrote:
> I see this exactly as you and are watching this list for may years.

I'm not sure who you're replying to as you've removed those details,
though I may guess from your In-Reply-To header which doesn't point
to a list message. You haven't replied to an off-list (personal)
mail back onto the list have you? Be careful there!

> But since the beginning, I had the suspicion, that someone just
> wants to make fun with us.

It is hard to understand how what Michael/Sophie/Tobias does can in
any way be "fun" for them, though maybe that is just our lack of
understanding.

Either they are incredibly confused by Linux or they are pretending
to be for reasons beyond my understanding. Whatever the case, I
don't think I have ever seen one of their threads result in a
positive resolution.

It's probably best to not assume that what we don't understand is
hostile and/or an AI experiment. Even so, that doesn't mean it is
possible to help.

Thanks,
Andy

--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-07 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon.

The bug report

sudo ...
You are not in the sudoers file.
Regards
Sophie



Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 18:44
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work


Am Freitag, 26. Januar 2024, 17:23:07 CET schrieben Sie:

Yes, if you want to install soemthing for example by using the apt command, 
best way is becoming root with the command "su -" and then install the rquired 
package.


Example:

su -  then enter the password of the user root


If installing for example firefox, first read the repository:


apt update


then install the package


apt install firefox-esr


-


Hint: If you want a graphical method and you have no X and Wndow-Manager 
running (like KDE, Gnome, XFCE whatever), I suggest using aptitude.


You have to install aptitude first:


apt install aptitude


Then you can start the gui with the command "aptitude" as root.


Hint 2: aptitude is controlled by keypresses without any enter-key.

For example, when started aptitude, just press the "u" key and it reads the 
update, "U" (Shift + u)  marks all newer packages automatically to be updated, 
then press "g" and you will shwo, what it will do. Press "g" again, and it will 
do the update.


Please note: If you want to upgrade the whole sytem, then using apt or apt-get 
will be the better choice!


But aptitude is very well for installing single packages or weekly upgrades, 
where not much packages will be renewed.


If you are not much experienced, and you have a window-manager running like 
KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE or another one, then look at synaptic. Synaptic is a 
graphical tool for installing packages, it is a GUI for apt.


Synaptic MUST run as root.


Hope this helps.


By the way: I believe, you are not very experienced in English language, so I 
suggest to suscribe in the fine German forum,

which is debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org.


Here is the link:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/


Good luck!


Hans



> Sorry

> it was my mistake

>

> It is

>

> su -

> su

> or sudo.

>

> Sorry.

>

> Is su -

> the best for install?

>

> Regards

>

> Sophie

>

>

> 

>

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-02 Thread Timothy M Butterworth

On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 7:17 PM Schwibinger Michael  wrote:

> Good afternoon
>
> Before there was panic
>
> su
> su -
> sudo
> did work.
>
> Somebody does have experience with
> rescue mode?
>

If you are in Single User Mode you are already root and do not need: su or
sudo.



> Regards
> Sophie
>
>
> --
> *Von:* Greg Wooledge 
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 17:45
> *An:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> *Betreff:* Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work
>
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:23:07PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > su -
> > su
> > or sudo.
> >
> > Is su -
> > the best for install?
>
> Whatever works best for *you* is best.  "su -" is quite popular.
> If it does what you need, and is convenient for you, then there's
> your answer.
>
>

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

AW: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-02 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon

Before there was panic

su
su -
sudo
did work.

Somebody does have experience with
rescue mode?

Regards
Sophie

Von: Greg Wooledge 
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Januar 2024 17:45
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:23:07PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> su -
> su
> or sudo.
>
> Is su -
> the best for install?

Whatever works best for *you* is best.  "su -" is quite popular.
If it does what you need, and is convenient for you, then there's
your answer.

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-02 Thread CL


Am 27.01.24 um 10:23 schrieb Hans:

I see this exactly as you and are watching this list for may years.

However, I wanted not to be so directly because I want not to blame anyone on
this list.

But since the beginning, I had the suspicion, that someone just wants to make
fun with us.

Aleady from the beginning I checked after the mail adress (please note, I am
German myself) and found some theater group behind the mailadress.

So I personally(!) believe, the group is making fun with us, but even then I
gave him a chance.

And again I personally(!) (and this is my very personal opinion), I think,
nobody is so stupid, that he/she can not do a su or install a package. NOT
after 2 years!!!

For me, I will get no help here for this person, just ignore it. This is my
very personal decision!

Sorry to say it, but for me personally it looks like fake! Like a morone, like
a troll.

And those I can not support, sorry.

Please excuse, I do not want to hurt anyone, just tell, what I think.

Best regards

Hans


I see very similar posts in the German language list from the last two
years but as Tobias Schwibingerr or similar - also signed by a Sophie

When I asked this question some time ago, it seems that the German language
list had concluded that this person might be a troll (or even a psychology
experiment / AI) :(

Like you, I have attempted to engage - but I think none of us will see
any change - I think the German list pays no attention / may have blocked
this user.






Hello,

I agree completely with you.

Follow this list for appr. one year now and this "person" (Michael 
Schwibinger / Sophie / ???) pop up every couple of month.


He/She works always with the same "scam".

1. Came up with a simple sounding cry for help (Computer / OS destroyed 
or something else)
2. React on questions for clarification with stupid and even more 
confusing answers


What I notice that every popup it is a little bit better with the 
answers. They stay stupid and unrelated but the are more wordy.


So I think at the moment it is a troll who works with AI to generate 
some answers. But this is of course my personal opinion.


For a real psychological experiment the design of the experiment is much 
to poor.


I decided for me not care on threads which are based on a message of 
this persons.


The most disappointing thing is that there is no possibility to block 
such "contributors". As I know. Even a block won't really help. They 
might start with a new email in the same way again.



--
---
mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards

**Christian Lorenz**

mailto:cl.debian.mail...@t-online.de
---

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-02-02 Thread Christian Lorenz

Yes,

He/She is back again.

In my opinion no serious request intended by this "person".

Same approach as last time (and the issues before)

* crying for help (destroyed OS)
* no real answers to questions
* repeating the same complain frequently


Some possibilities

1. Shity AI
2. Troll
3. Bored child
4. 
5. ...

I think best thing: ignore it latest after the first fail response to a clear 
quedtion.



--- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards

**Christian Lorenz**

mailto:cl.debian.mail...@t-online.de
--- 

Am 20. Januar 2024 15:34:16 MEZ schrieb David Wright :
>On Sat 20 Jan 2024 at 09:14:30 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
>> > Good afternoon.
>> > Root terminal is fine.
>> > What do I do wrong?
>> > What did I destroy?
>> > 
>> > PC does have only one user=admin.
>> > 
>> > Regards Sophie
>> > Is it the rescue mode?
>> 
>> Explain, please.
>> 
>> Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
>> 
>> Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
>> results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
>> window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
>> body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
>> typed it, and the full output.
>> 
>> In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.
>> 
>> In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
>> of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
>> logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
>> for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
>> that might be relevant.
>> 
>> How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?
>> 
>> When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
>> leave it blank?
>> 
>> Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
>> arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
>> command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.
>
>Welcome to the world of déjà vu.
>
>  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/07/msg00601.html
>
>Cheers,
>David.
>

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-31 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 01:58:41PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> I think
> maybe Im sure
> it is because of rescue mode.
> 
Hi Sophie,

Once again: we need to you to show us what commands you run.

We need to see error messages.

if you cannot run sudo or su, we need you to run the id command
as previously suggested.

We have literally nothing of use from you to help any of us problem
solve. This is throwing good effort away in persuading you to help us.

Also - please address requests first to the list and not to individuals -
it makes it a lot easier to follow on the list.

> Normal booting did not have this problem.
> 
> Anybody familiar with panic?
> 
> Regards
> Thank You
> Sophie
> 
Andy
> 
> 
> Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2024 18:40
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon
> > Why do I have to open a group?
> >
> 
> This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
> and sudo
> 
> Running the
> 
> id
> 
> command should give you information like
> 
> uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)
> 
> which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the
> machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
> users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.
> 
> /etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
> Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
> modified from Debian defaults)
> 
> # User privilege specification
> rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> 
> # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
> %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
> 
> # See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:
> 
> @includedir /etc/sudoers.d
> (END)
> 
> If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
> use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
> (once) to add your user name to the group.
> 
> For example: adduser sophie sudo
> 
> I hope this helps
> 
> > 2 years ago
> > sudo was no problem.
> >
> 
> As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to
> break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or
> how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.
> 
> Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
> use their knowledge to help you.
> 
> With every good wish, as ever,
> 
> Andy
> (amaca...@debian.org)
> > Regards
> >
> > Sophie
> >
> > Thank You
> > 
> > Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> > An: Schwibinger Michael 
> > Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> > 
> > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> > mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > Thank You
> > Example
> > I say
> >
> > sudo apt-get install firefox
> > Reaction LINUX
> > This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
> >
> > This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.
> >
> > Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
> > groups
> >
> > Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will need 
> > to run it as root.
> > usermod -a -G sudo 
> >
> > I do open root terminal
> > there its working.
> > Regards
> > Sophie
> >
> > 
> > Von: Greg Wooledge mailto:g...@wooledge.org>>
> > Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
> > An: debian-user@lists.debian.org<mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org> 
> > mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
> > Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > > Good afternoon.
> > > Root terminal is fine.
> > > What do I do wrong?
> > > What did I destroy?
> > >
> > > PC does have only one user=admin.
> > >
> > > Regards Sophie
> > > Is it the rescue mode?
> >
> > Explain, please.
> >
> > Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
> >
> > Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
> &g

AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-31 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon
I think
maybe Im sure
it is because of rescue mode.

Normal booting did not have this problem.

Anybody familiar with panic?

Regards
Thank You
Sophie



Von: Andrew M.A. Cater 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Januar 2024 18:40
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> Why do I have to open a group?
>

This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
and sudo

Running the

id

command should give you information like

uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)

which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the
machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.

/etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
modified from Debian defaults)

# User privilege specification
rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
%sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:

@includedir /etc/sudoers.d
(END)

If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
(once) to add your user name to the group.

For example: adduser sophie sudo

I hope this helps

> 2 years ago
> sudo was no problem.
>

As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to
break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or
how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.

Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
use their knowledge to help you.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
> Regards
>
> Sophie
>
> Thank You
> 
> Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> An: Schwibinger Michael 
> Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> 
> Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Thank You
> Example
> I say
>
> sudo apt-get install firefox
> Reaction LINUX
> This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
>
> This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.
>
> Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
> groups
>
> Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will need to 
> run it as root.
> usermod -a -G sudo 
>
> I do open root terminal
> there its working.
> Regards
> Sophie
>
> 
> Von: Greg Wooledge mailto:g...@wooledge.org>>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org<mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org> 
> mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
> Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
>
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon.
> > Root terminal is fine.
> > What do I do wrong?
> > What did I destroy?
> >
> > PC does have only one user=admin.
> >
> > Regards Sophie
> > Is it the rescue mode?
>
> Explain, please.
>
> Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
>
> Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
> results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
> window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
> body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
> typed it, and the full output.
>
> In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.
>
> In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
> of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
> logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
> for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
> that might be relevant.
>
> How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?
>
> When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
> leave it blank?
>
> Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
> arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
> command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.
>
>
>
> --
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-27 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon
Thank You

There is only one password.
The problem was created until
the update to DEBIAN 11 created panic.
Before
sudo
su
su -

did work.

Regards
Sophie

Von: Gareth Evans 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Januar 2024 04:31
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work

> On 23 Jan 2024, at 18:30, Hans  wrote:
>
> Am Dienstag, 23. Januar 2024, 13:54:25 CET schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
> For gvetting root as normal user, best is use "su -".
>
> Note: It is not "su-", but "su -", with a space between su and the minus sign.

Also su requires root's password, not the user's, just in case that's worth 
mentioning...

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-27 Thread Andy Smith

Hello,

On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 11:05:30AM +0100, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Andy Smith wrote:
> > It is hard to understand how what Michael/Sophie/Tobias does can in
> > any way be "fun" for them, though maybe that is just our lack of
> > understanding.
> 
> I expressed my suspicion of a "Hurz" performance in
>   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/05/msg00100.html

Okay, but it seems to me that watching an audience try to take a
nonsense opera seriously is a bit more sophisticated and has scope
for amusement, unlike for example an endless stream of mispastes and
misunderstandings about "sudo" and "su".

But I guess what one finds amusing can have a very wide variability…

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-27 Thread Thomas Schmitt

Hi,

Andy Smith wrote:
> It is hard to understand how what Michael/Sophie/Tobias does can in
> any way be "fun" for them, though maybe that is just our lack of
> understanding.

I expressed my suspicion of a "Hurz" performance in
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/05/msg00100.html


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-27 Thread Andy Smith

Hi Hans,

On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 10:23:09AM +0100, Hans wrote:
> I see this exactly as you and are watching this list for may years.

I'm not sure who you're replying to as you've removed those details,
though I may guess from your In-Reply-To header which doesn't point
to a list message. You haven't replied to an off-list (personal)
mail back onto the list have you? Be careful there!

> But since the beginning, I had the suspicion, that someone just
> wants to make fun with us.

It is hard to understand how what Michael/Sophie/Tobias does can in
any way be "fun" for them, though maybe that is just our lack of
understanding.

Either they are incredibly confused by Linux or they are pretending
to be for reasons beyond my understanding. Whatever the case, I
don't think I have ever seen one of their threads result in a
positive resolution.

It's probably best to not assume that what we don't understand is
hostile and/or an AI experiment. Even so, that doesn't mean it is
possible to help.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-27 Thread Hans

I see this exactly as you and are watching this list for may years.

However, I wanted not to be so directly because I want not to blame anyone on 
this list.

But since the beginning, I had the suspicion, that someone just wants to make 
fun with us.

Aleady from the beginning I checked after the mail adress (please note, I am 
German myself) and found some theater group behind the mailadress. 

So I personally(!) believe, the group is making fun with us, but even then I 
gave him a chance. 

And again I personally(!) (and this is my very personal opinion), I think, 
nobody is so stupid, that he/she can not do a su or install a package. NOT 
after 2 years!!!

For me, I will get no help here for this person, just ignore it. This is my 
very personal decision!

Sorry to say it, but for me personally it looks like fake! Like a morone, like 
a troll.

And those I can not support, sorry.

Please excuse, I do not want to hurt anyone, just tell, what I think.

Best regards

Hans  

> I see very similar posts in the German language list from the last two
> years but as Tobias Schwibingerr or similar - also signed by a Sophie
> 
> When I asked this question some time ago, it seems that the German language
> list had concluded that this person might be a troll (or even a psychology
> experiment / AI) :(
> 
> Like you, I have attempted to engage - but I think none of us will see
> any change - I think the German list pays no attention / may have blocked
> this user.
>

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-26 Thread Hans

Am Freitag, 26. Januar 2024, 17:23:07 CET schrieben Sie:
Yes, if you want to install soemthing for example by using the apt command, 
best way is 
becoming root with the command "su -" and then install the rquired package.


Example:
su -  then enter the password of the user root


If installing for example firefox, first read the repository:


apt update


then install the package


apt install firefox-esr


-


Hint: If you want a graphical method and you have no X and Wndow-Manager 
running (like KDE, 
Gnome, XFCE whatever), I suggest using aptitude.


You have to install aptitude first:


apt install aptitude


Then you can start the gui with the command "aptitude" as root.


Hint 2: aptitude is controlled by keypresses without any enter-key.
For example, when started aptitude, just press the "u" key and it reads the 
update, "U" (Shift + 
u)  marks all newer packages automatically to be updated, then press "g" and 
you will shwo, 
what it will do. Press "g" again, and it will do the update.


Please note: If you want to upgrade the whole sytem, then using apt or apt-get 
will be the 
better choice!


But aptitude is very well for installing single packages or weekly upgrades, 
where not much 
packages will be renewed.


If you are not much experienced, and you have a window-manager running like 
KDE, Gnome, 
XFCE, LXDE or another one, then look at synaptic. Synaptic is a graphical tool 
for installing 
packages, it is a GUI for apt.


Synaptic MUST run as root.


Hope this helps.


By the way: I believe, you are not very experienced in English language, so I 
suggest to suscribe 
in the fine German forum, 
which is debian-user-ger...@lists.debioan.org.


Here is the link:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/[1]


Good luck!


Hans



> Sorry
> it was my mistake
> 
> It is
> 
> su -
> su
> or sudo.
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> Is su -
> the best for install?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Sophie
> 
> 
> 
>


[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-german/

Re: AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-26 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 04:23:07PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> su -
> su
> or sudo.
> 
> Is su -
> the best for install?

Whatever works best for *you* is best.  "su -" is quite popular.
If it does what you need, and is convenient for you, then there's
your answer.

AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-26 Thread Schwibinger Michael


Sorry
it was my mistake

It is

su -
su
or sudo.

Sorry.

Is su -
the best for install?

Regards

Sophie



Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Januar 2024 18:29
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work

Am Dienstag, 23. Januar 2024, 13:54:25 CET schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
For gvetting root as normal user, best is use "su -".

Note: It is not "su-", but "su -", with a space between su and the minus sign.

Good luck!

Hans

> Thank You.
>
> 2 questions
> 1
> Is the best to use su-
> for ding install?
> 2
> All 4 dont work.
> What do I do wrong?
> Regards
> Sophie
>
>

Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-25 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 03:53:10PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> Why do I have to open a group?
> 

This is to *tell* us information about why you're having problems with su
and sudo

Running the 

id

command should give you information like

uid=1000(amacater) gid=1000(amacater) groups=1000(amacater),27(sudo)

which shows you that my user - amacater - is the first user on the 
machine (because Debian starts user id numbers at 1000 for ordinary
users) and that I'm a member of group sudo - so can use sudo instead of su.

/etc/sudoers will show you what privileges the sudo user has.
Here are the last lines of the file on my machine (which has not been
modified from Debian defaults)

# User privilege specification
rootALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
%sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# See sudoers(5) for more information on "@include" directives:

@includedir /etc/sudoers.d
(END)

If you are _not_ a user of group sudo for whatever reason - and want to
use sudo - then you will need root privileges and the root password
(once) to add your user name to the group.

For example: adduser sophie sudo

I hope this helps

> 2 years ago
> sudo was no problem.
> 

As yet, we have *no idea* what you have done in the last two years to 
break your Debian system - or even to know which kernel you boot or 
how you "rescue" your system when you log onto it every day.

Please give us information in order that the readers on this list can
use their knowledge to help you.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
> Regards
> 
> Sophie
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
> Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
> An: Schwibinger Michael 
> Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> 
> Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
> mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Thank You
> Example
> I say
> 
> sudo apt-get install firefox
> Reaction LINUX
> This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
> 
> This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.
> 
> Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
> groups
> 
> Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will need to 
> run it as root.
> usermod -a -G sudo 
> 
> I do open root terminal
> there its working.
> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> 
> Von: Greg Wooledge mailto:g...@wooledge.org>>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org<mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org> 
> mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
> Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work
> 
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon.
> > Root terminal is fine.
> > What do I do wrong?
> > What did I destroy?
> >
> > PC does have only one user=admin.
> >
> > Regards Sophie
> > Is it the rescue mode?
> 
> Explain, please.
> 
> Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
> 
> Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
> results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
> window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
> body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
> typed it, and the full output.
> 
> In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.
> 
> In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
> of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
> logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
> for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
> that might be relevant.
> 
> How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?
> 
> When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
> leave it blank?
> 
> Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
> arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
> command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
> ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-25 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon
Why do I have to open a group?

2 years ago
sudo was no problem.

Regards

Sophie

Thank You

Von: Timothy M Butterworth 
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Januar 2024 00:07
An: Schwibinger Michael 
Cc: Greg Wooledge ; debian-user@lists.debian.org 

Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work

On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
mailto:h...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Thank You
Example
I say

sudo apt-get install firefox
Reaction LINUX
This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.

This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.

Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
groups

Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will need to 
run it as root.
usermod -a -G sudo 

I do open root terminal
there its working.
Regards
Sophie

Von: Greg Wooledge mailto:g...@wooledge.org>>
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org<mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org> 
mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>>
Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work

On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?
>
> PC does have only one user=admin.
>
> Regards Sophie
> Is it the rescue mode?

Explain, please.

Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?

Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
typed it, and the full output.

In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.

In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
that might be relevant.

How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?

When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
leave it blank?

Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.

--
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

AW: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-24 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon
Thank You.

I ll print it out and read it.

2 questions:

Is this the same problem with su
su -
su -p?

Is it not a problem of rescue mode,
before panic it did work.

Problem:
root terminal is not accepting copy paste.
Regards
Sophie

Von: Greg Wooledge
Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Januar 2024 14:40
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work

On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 12:57:17PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> sudo apt-get install firefox
> Reaction LINUX
> This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
>
> I do open root terminal
> there its working.

It sounds like you are not authorized to use "sudo" on this computer.

This is precisely the scenario for which I requested that you run the
"id" command and paste its output into your email. If you are in
the "sudo" group, then you should be allowed to use sudo. Here, for
example, is my output:

unicorn:~$ id
uid=1000(greg) gid=1000(greg)
groups=1000(greg),24(cdrom),25(floppy),27(sudo),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),108(netdev)

You can see that it includes ",27(sudo)" which demonstrates that I am in
the sudo group, and I am therefore allowed to use sudo on this computer.

If your output does not include this group, then we see the cause.
And then the solution becomes obvious.

We would also see your UID, and this might inform us as to *underlying*
reasons why you are not in the sudo group. Maybe this isn't UID 1000
(the one created during installation). Maybe it's a user that was
created later, with a higher UID. In that case, it's *normal* for you
not to be in the sudo group, until you explicitly add yourself.

We would also see your username, so that if we have to tell you to
run a command to add yourself to the sudo group, we'd be able to give
you the *exact* command, and you could just paste it, or type it,
without having to think.

All of this would have been *REVEALED TO US* if you had simply done what
we asked.

At this point, after years of your membership here, I don't think I've
ever seen you paste information from a Debian terminal session into
your emails. This leads me to believe you are *incapable* of doing so,
for one reason or another. Maybe the Debian system is air-gapped,
and you can't ssh to it from the system where you compose emails.
Maybe you compose emails on a handheld mobile device which can't ssh or
copy text. Maybe you're just too technologically ignorant to do things
like installing PuTTY on Windows and using that to ssh into Debian to
run the commands so they can be pasted.

All I know for sure is that helping you is *incredibly* frustrating,
because not only do you not do the basic steps that are requested, you
also refuse to *explain* why you don't do them. All we can ever do is
guess.

So anyway, here is my prescription for this particular problem. These
are the steps you should follow. They will require that you read and
understand them, and that you actually do them.

1) On the Debian system, while you are logged in as the user who cannot
use sudo, open a terminal, and run the "id" command.

2) Look for (sudo) in the output.

3) If you see (sudo) in the output, this means your sudoers file is not
the normal one for Debian. Something has changed it. You will have
to figure out what has changed, and WHY it has changed, and fix it.
In this case, STOP. Do not proceed to step 4 or 5.

4) If you do NOT see (sudo), then you will want to add yourself to the
sudo group. To do this, you will need your username, which you have
never revealed to us. I will therefore have to write a template
command in which you will have to FILL IN YOUR USERNAME.

Open a root terminal (which you claim you can do) and run this
command:

adduser YOURUSERNAME sudo

But replace YOURUSERNAME with your Debian username.

5) If you added yourself to the sudo group, then you will need to logout
of Debian and log back in to make it take effect. After logging back
in, run "id" and verify that you are now in the sudo group.

Once you are in the sudo group, you should be able to use sudo, unless
your /etc/sudoers file has been altered, or came from a non-Debian system.

If your /etc/sudoers file is not of Debian origin, then I personally
will refuse to try to help you fix it, because I don't believe you will
be able to follow my instructions correctly. You will need help from
someone with whom you can communicate effectively. This may mean you
need to go to a German-language Debian mailing list. It may mean you
need in-person help from a local expert. It may mean you have to hand
your entire computer over to a professional. I don't know what you
need at this point.

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-23 Thread Gareth Evans




> On 23 Jan 2024, at 18:30, Hans  wrote:
> 
> Am Dienstag, 23. Januar 2024, 13:54:25 CET schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
> For gvetting root as normal user, best is use "su -".
> 
> Note: It is not "su-", but "su -", with a space between su and the minus sign.

Also su requires root's password, not the user's, just in case that's worth 
mentioning...

Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-23 Thread Hans

Am Dienstag, 23. Januar 2024, 13:54:25 CET schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
For gvetting root as normal user, best is use "su -".

Note: It is not "su-", but "su -", with a space between su and the minus sign.

Good luck!

Hans

> Thank You.
> 
> 2 questions
> 1
> Is the best to use su-
> for ding install?
> 2
> All 4 dont work.
> What do I do wrong?
> Regards
> Sophie
> 
>

AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-23 Thread Schwibinger Michael


Thank You.

2 questions
1
Is the best to use su-
for ding install?
2
All 4 dont work.
What do I do wrong?
Regards
Sophie



Von: Hans 
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:23
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work

Am Samstag, 20. Januar 2024, 14:26:06 CET schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
There is not "su su-", but there is

su   = change to root, envirenmont of former user without changing of X
environment (hope, this is corect said)
su -= change to root, environment of user root
su -p   = change to root, environment of former user (usefull when in
window manager and you want to start graphical applications with root rights)

Hope this helps.

Best

Hans



> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?
>
> PC does have only one user=admin.
>
> Regards Sophie
> Is it the rescue mode?

AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-23 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon
Its DEBIAN 11 LXDE
There is user id + password.
I think the problem
appeared only after update to 11
created panic.
Root terminal is working
but its not accepting
copypaste.
Regards
Thank You
Sophie



Von: David Wright 
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:34
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work

On Sat 20 Jan 2024 at 09:14:30 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon.
> > Root terminal is fine.
> > What do I do wrong?
> > What did I destroy?
> >
> > PC does have only one user=admin.
> >
> > Regards Sophie
> > Is it the rescue mode?
>
> Explain, please.
>
> Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
>
> Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
> results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
> window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
> body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
> typed it, and the full output.
>
> In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.
>
> In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
> of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
> logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
> for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
> that might be relevant.
>
> How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?
>
> When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
> leave it blank?
>
> Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
> arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
> command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.

Welcome to the world of déjà vu.

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/07/msg00601.html

Cheers,
David.

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-21 Thread Timothy M Butterworth

On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 4:07 PM Schwibinger Michael 
wrote:

> Thank You
> Example
> I say
>
> sudo apt-get install firefox
> Reaction LINUX
> This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.
>

This error message means that your account is not in the sudo group.

Run the command "groups" and look for the group sudo.
groups

Here is the command to add a user account to the sudo group. You will need
to run it as root.
usermod -a -G sudo 


> I do open root terminal
> there its working.
> Regards
> Sophie
>
> --
> *Von:* Greg Wooledge 
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
> *An:* debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> *Betreff:* Re: su su- sudo dont work
>
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon.
> > Root terminal is fine.
> > What do I do wrong?
> > What did I destroy?
> >
> > PC does have only one user=admin.
> >
> > Regards Sophie
> > Is it the rescue mode?
>
> Explain, please.
>
> Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
>
> Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
> results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
> window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
> body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
> typed it, and the full output.
>
> In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.
>
> In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
> of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
> logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
> for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
> that might be relevant.
>
> How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?
>
> When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
> leave it blank?
>
> Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
> arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
> command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.
>
>

-- 
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⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-21 Thread Greg Wooledge

It sounds like you are not authorized to use "sudo" on this computer.

unicorn:~$ id
uid=1000(greg) gid=1000(greg)
groups=1000(greg),24(cdrom),25(floppy),27(sudo),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),108(netdev)

You can see that it includes ",27(sudo)" which demonstrates that I am in
the sudo group, and I am therefore allowed to use sudo on this computer.

If your output does not include this group, then we see the cause.
And then the solution becomes obvious.

All of this would have been *REVEALED TO US* if you had simply done what
we asked.

So anyway, here is my prescription for this particular problem. These
are the steps you should follow. They will require that you read and
understand them, and that you actually do them.

1) On the Debian system, while you are logged in as the user who cannot
use sudo, open a terminal, and run the "id" command.

2) Look for (sudo) in the output.

Open a root terminal (which you claim you can do) and run this
command:

adduser YOURUSERNAME sudo

But replace YOURUSERNAME with your Debian username.

Once you are in the sudo group, you should be able to use sudo, unless
your /etc/sudoers file has been altered, or came from a non-Debian system.

AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-21 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Thank You
Example
I say

sudo apt-get install firefox
Reaction LINUX
This is not allowed we send a message to the admin.

I do open root terminal
there its working.
Regards
Sophie

Von: Greg Wooledge 
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:14
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work

On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?
>
> PC does have only one user=admin.
>
> Regards Sophie
> Is it the rescue mode?

Explain, please.

Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?

Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
typed it, and the full output.

In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.

In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
that might be relevant.

How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?

When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
leave it blank?

Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-21 Thread Byung-Hee HWANG

On Sat, 2024-01-20 at 13:26 +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 
> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?
> 
> 
> PC does have only one user=admin.
> 
> 
> Regards Sophie
> Is it the rescue mode?

Hellow Sophie,

English is not my native language. Sometimes i use Korean mailing list
for me. Because i am Korean and i feel hard to write/speak English.

I guess English is not your native language. There is a German-only Q
mailing. See  please.

Es gibt ein Q nur auf Deutsch.

Schau hier:

Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Problem booting the Debian machine [WAS Re: AW: su su- sudo dont work]

2024-01-21 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 02:30:43PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon
> I destroyed DEBIAN
> now 2 years agon.
> I asked here for help
> no solution.
> So every morning
> I interrupt booting
> change to rescue mode.
> 
> "Normal" booting does create panic.
> 
> Regards
> Sophie
> 
> PC
> accident happened after update to DEBIAN 11.
> 

Hi Sophie,

We are asking you questions because we can't see you, we can't see 
what you type, we need clear information.

It's like playing chess by post: every time we ask for details
on what you have - what has happened, how the pieces are laid
out - we get an "I have a chess problem" message.

In your reply, please try and answer each of the questions
written below *under* the question so it is clear. If you only have
a phone to reply, that's OK, but please reply to one question
at a time in that case.

Please try and keep to the subject of the message. I have changed
that to "Problem booting the machine" I expect your reply to be
something like AW: Problem booting the machine

First - and most important question - is this your only computer?

If so, I would not want to break it further but in order to fix it,
we will need more information.

Second question - is this the computer that you mail us from to this list
or are you using some other device to mail us?

Your reply above has given more information: this happened after
you upgraded from Debian 10 to Debian 11. 

Third question - Even if it's now more than two years ago: can you
remember whether the upgrade completed successfully?

Fourth question -Is it that when the computer starts - and you get a
(blue or green??) first screen with white writing, it lists 
several kernels to choose from?

Fifth question - If you have only one kernel listed, then under that may be
a "rescue" option - is that what you use to boot the machine every
day?

If so, then *what do you type* to get into the system: what commands?

Sixth question - One line may list the Debian 11 kernel version -
with 5.10 - or may list the Debian 10 kernel version - with 4.19
Which do you select  / which one works?

Thank you in advance for your replies

Andy
(amaca...@debian.org)
> 

>

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-20 Thread Andy Smith

Hi,

On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?

h-boy, strap yourselves in for another epic Sophie/Michael
thread. A bit like the Gene ones, though tend to be circular across
a much smaller pool of non-information, and far less chance of
bringing up the Korean war. Equally pessimistic as to the chances
of ever reaching a resolution.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

AW: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-20 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon
I destroyed DEBIAN
now 2 years agon.
I asked here for help
no solution.
So every morning
I interrupt booting
change to rescue mode.

"Normal" booting does create panic.

Regards
Sophie

PC
accident happened after update to DEBIAN 11.

Von: Dan Ritter 
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Januar 2024 14:09
An: Schwibinger Michael 
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: su su- sudo dont work

Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?
>
> PC does have only one user=admin.
>
> Regards Sophie
> Is it the rescue mode?

Please tell us:

 exactly what rescue mode you were using

 exactly what the prompt was

 exactly what you typed

 exactly what the response was

 exactly what you want to have happen

Unless you tell us all of these things in one email message, it
will not be a good idea for any of us to try to help you.

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-20 Thread David Wright

On Sat 20 Jan 2024 at 09:14:30 (-0500), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > Good afternoon.
> > Root terminal is fine.
> > What do I do wrong?
> > What did I destroy?
> > 
> > PC does have only one user=admin.
> > 
> > Regards Sophie
> > Is it the rescue mode?
> 
> Explain, please.
> 
> Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?
> 
> Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
> results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
> window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
> body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
> typed it, and the full output.
> 
> In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.
> 
> In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
> of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
> logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
> for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
> that might be relevant.
> 
> How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?
> 
> When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
> leave it blank?
> 
> Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
> arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
> command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.

Welcome to the world of déjà vu.

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/07/msg00601.html

Cheers,
David.

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-20 Thread Dan Ritter

Schwibinger Michael wrote: 
> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?
> 
> PC does have only one user=admin.
> 
> Regards Sophie
> Is it the rescue mode?

Please tell us:

 exactly what rescue mode you were using

 exactly what the prompt was

 exactly what you typed

 exactly what the response was

 exactly what you want to have happen

Unless you tell us all of these things in one email message, it
will not be a good idea for any of us to try to help you.

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-20 Thread Hans

Am Samstag, 20. Januar 2024, 14:26:06 CET schrieb Schwibinger Michael:
There is not "su su-", but there is

su  = change to root, envirenmont of former user without changing of X 
environment (hope, this is corect said)
su -= change to root, environment of user root
su -p   = change to root, environment of former user (usefull when in 
window manager and you want to start graphical applications with root rights)
 
Hope this helps.

Best

Hans
 


> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?
> 
> PC does have only one user=admin.
> 
> Regards Sophie
> Is it the rescue mode?

Re: su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-20 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 01:26:06PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good afternoon.
> Root terminal is fine.
> What do I do wrong?
> What did I destroy?
> 
> PC does have only one user=admin.
> 
> Regards Sophie
> Is it the rescue mode?

Explain, please.

Your Subject: header says "su su- sudo dont work".  What does this MEAN?

Please show us your attempts to USE each of these commands, and the
results that you got.  This means, run the commands in a terminal
window, and then PASTE the contents of that terminal window into the
body of your next email.  Show us the shell prompt, the command as you
typed it, and the full output.

In other words, show us WHAT IS WRONG, or at least what appears wrong.

In addition, please give basic background information -- what version
of Debian you are running, what desktop environment if any, how you
logged in (*especially* if it isn't just a "standard graphical login
for your desktop environment"), and anything else you can think of
that might be relevant.

How does "rescue mode" factor into the problem?

When you installed Debian, did you give a root password, or did you
leave it blank?

Finally, it would be helpful for you to run the "id" command (with no
arguments), in the same terminal session as your failed su or sudo
command(s), and include that command and its output in your paste.

su su- sudo dont work

2024-01-20 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Good afternoon.
Root terminal is fine.
What do I do wrong?
What did I destroy?

PC does have only one user=admin.

Regards Sophie
Is it the rescue mode?

Re: su

2023-09-14 Thread Max Nikulin


On 14/09/2023 22:26, Vincent Lefevre wrote:


I noticed the issue just before the upgrade to bookworm (I wanted
to do that for the upgrade). But I can't reproduce it in bookworm.
So this may have been an old bug that has been fixed.


I do not follow the topic, so I can not attribute changes to particular 
releases, but certainly I see progress: new features in terminal 
applications, changes in terminal definitions, adding new ones like tmux 
flavors.



IIRC, this was text positioning issues, perhaps when recalling
commands from the history.


It may be related to a readline library. E.g. bash does not rely on

xterm*VT100.reverseWrap: true


BTW, I don't think that the preservation of $TERM is sufficient.
Preserving $TERMINFO (when set) is important too.


I do not use TERMINFO, however if you need to preserve it than you may use

su --whitelist-environment=TERMINFO -

My use case is lxc-attach and DISPLAY.

Re: su

2023-09-14 Thread Vincent Lefevre

On 2023-09-14 21:25:56 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 14/09/2023 17:30, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > Yes, XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is problematic, but as "su -" doesn't work in
> > GNU Screen (it yields major display issues), I presume that some
> > environment variables (terminal related?) are still useful.
> 
> I just have tried it. "su -" preserves TERM=screen.xterm-256color. Behavior
> is different from pure xterm-256color, but I have no guess what you may
> consider as major display issues. E.g. vim is even able to determine if
> background is dark or light and to adjust color scheme accordingly.

I noticed the issue just before the upgrade to bookworm (I wanted
to do that for the upgrade). But I can't reproduce it in bookworm.
So this may have been an old bug that has been fixed.

IIRC, this was text positioning issues, perhaps when recalling
commands from the history.

BTW, I don't think that the preservation of $TERM is sufficient.
Preserving $TERMINFO (when set) is important too.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: su

2023-09-14 Thread Max Nikulin


On 14/09/2023 17:30, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

Yes, XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is problematic, but as "su -" doesn't work in
GNU Screen (it yields major display issues), I presume that some
environment variables (terminal related?) are still useful.


I just have tried it. "su -" preserves TERM=screen.xterm-256color. 
Behavior is different from pure xterm-256color, but I have no guess what 
you may consider as major display issues. E.g. vim is even able to 
determine if background is dark or light and to adjust color scheme 
accordingly.

Re: su

2023-09-14 Thread Vincent Lefevre

On 2023-09-06 14:36:48 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 06/09/2023 10:41, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > 
> > Just put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" into /etc/default/su and the problem
> > is FIXED.  "su" will work properly again!
> 
> Greg, you provided a valid example when "su -" is undesirable, however in
> general "su -" is safer than just "su" since it resets some user specific
> environment variables like XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000 that may cause
> creation of files that the original user can not overwrite them. So "su -"
> should have less unexpected effects.

Yes, XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is problematic, but as "su -" doesn't work in
GNU Screen (it yields major display issues), I presume that some
environment variables (terminal related?) are still useful.

FYI, I had written a su wrapper that unsets XDG_RUNTIME_DIR first.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: <https://www.vinc17.net/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <https://www.vinc17.net/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: su

2023-09-06 Thread Michel Verdier

On 2023-09-05, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> How *incredibly* Red Hat.  Really, it just sickens me that this is the
> answer accepted by so many people.

It's not Red Hat, it's man page and own practice, even before Red Hat
exists :)

> To perform that installation, you run "su", which gives you a root shell,
> and then you do something like "make install".

I either do all as root, after "su -", or use sudo for a single command.

Re: su

2023-09-06 Thread Max Nikulin


On 06/09/2023 10:41, Greg Wooledge wrote:


Just put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" into /etc/default/su and the problem
is FIXED.  "su" will work properly again!


Greg, you provided a valid example when "su -" is undesirable, however 
in general "su -" is safer than just "su" since it resets some user 
specific environment variables like XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000 that 
may cause creation of files that the original user can not overwrite 
them. So "su -" should have less unexpected effects.



Unfortunately, Debian DOESN'T CREATE THIS FILE BY DEFAULT.  People are
scared to create it themselves, because people have been "trained"
by years of Linux distribution handholding that if a program has
a configuration file, that file will *exist*, and will have helpful
comments in it, and they only have to find the file and edit it.
The idea of *creating* a configuration file that's missing is terrifying
for some people.


I find it more convenient when a configuration file may be created in 
addition to ones provided by the package. It makes changes more visible. 
It may be advantage or disadvantage if during package upgrade default 
configs are replaced without a query related to changed directives.


This particular settings is described in su(1) so can be discovered by 
users with reasonable amount of efforts. Certainly a configuration 
example may still be preferable for users.

Re: su

2023-09-05 Thread Charlie

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 23:41:45 -0400
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> To perform that installation, you run "su", which gives you a root
> shell, and then you do something like "make install".
> 
> But the Red Hat answer says you should use "su -" instead, to become
> root. What happens now?  You've created a login shell.  Now you're no
> longer in the directory where your source code was extracted and
> compiled. You're in root's $HOME directory.  So "make install" fails.
> 
> You could use a "cd" command to get to the source code.  But "cd -"
> won't work, because the previous working directory is not known to
> the root login shell.  The root login shell has intentionally
> discarded everything from your previous shell, including the old
> working directory's name. So you can't "cd -", but instead, you have
> to re-type the entire path to the source code directory.  Or copy and
> paste it out of your shell prompt, if that's still visible on the
> screen, and if it happens to contain the entire path.
> 
> Wouldn't it be *nicer* if su simply WORKED?!
> 
> You can make su work by creating a ONE-LINE CONFIGURATION FILE.

Thank you Greg
-- 
**  **  **  **  **  **  **  **  **  **
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

There is no exercise better for the heart than reaching down
and lifting people up.-- John Holmes

***
Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic
___

Re: su

2023-09-05 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 05:09:29AM +0200, Michel Verdier wrote:
> On 2023-09-05, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> > You used "su" to become root, I believe.  Unfortunately, beginning
> > with Debian 9, "su" with no arguments and no configuration doesn't
> > behave the way it used to behave.  Specifically, it no longer sets the
> > PATH variable properly.  And so you get the above results.
> >
> > See <https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBuster#Changes> for the options
> > available to you.  If you wish to continue using su, I strongly recommend
> > creating a /etc/default/su file.
> 
> I have no /etc/default/su and never need one. According to the man page
> su also reads /etc/login.defs. To get root env she only needs to use:
> "su -"

How *incredibly* Red Hat.  Really, it just sickens me that this is the
answer accepted by so many people.

Do you want a *specific* reason why this answer is crap?  OK, here's my
reason.

Let's say you've downloaded a program in source code form from the Internet.
You unpack it, and read the installation instructions.  Then you end up
running some combination of "./configure" and "make", or maybe "cmake",
or something like that.  Then, when all that fun stuff is done, it's time
to install your new program into the system directories so it can be used.

To perform that installation, you run "su", which gives you a root shell,
and then you do something like "make install".

But the Red Hat answer says you should use "su -" instead, to become root.
What happens now?  You've created a login shell.  Now you're no longer
in the directory where your source code was extracted and compiled.
You're in root's $HOME directory.  So "make install" fails.

You could use a "cd" command to get to the source code.  But "cd -" won't
work, because the previous working directory is not known to the root
login shell.  The root login shell has intentionally discarded everything
from your previous shell, including the old working directory's name.
So you can't "cd -", but instead, you have to re-type the entire path to
the source code directory.  Or copy and paste it out of your shell prompt,
if that's still visible on the screen, and if it happens to contain the
entire path.

Wouldn't it be *nicer* if su simply WORKED?!

You can make su work by creating a ONE-LINE CONFIGURATION FILE.

Just put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" into /etc/default/su and the problem
is FIXED.  "su" will work properly again!

> su also reads /etc/login.defs

Yes, it does.  And when the buster problem was first noted, some people
discovered that putting ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes into /etc/login.defs would
fix su.  This was actually published on the Debian wiki as well, as it
was the first known fix for the broken su.

Unfortunately, this fix has an undesired side effect.  It causes console
logins to print an error message, because the ALWAYS_SET_PATH line in
/etc/login.defs is not known to login(1), but only to su(1).

This error doesn't actually *hurt* anything, but it's really annoying.
And scary, for people who don't know where it's coming from.

Putting the configuration in /etc/default/su is a *better* solution,
because it works, and doesn't cause logins to print a confusing error
message.

Unfortunately, Debian DOESN'T CREATE THIS FILE BY DEFAULT.  People are
scared to create it themselves, because people have been "trained"
by years of Linux distribution handholding that if a program has
a configuration file, that file will *exist*, and will have helpful
comments in it, and they only have to find the file and edit it.
The idea of *creating* a configuration file that's missing is terrifying
for some people.

That's why I put the extra advice "(create it)" on the wiki.  I know
it won't be strong enough advice to overcome everyone's fears, but I do
hope it's enough to encourage people who are on the fence to be brave.
To reassure them that yes, we know Debian screwed up, and yes, we know
the file *should* be there, and it's not, but that's OK.  You can make
it yourself.

Re: Ya hay decisión (era: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»)

2022-11-08 Thread Roberto J. Blandino Cisneros

Yo estaba muy de acuerdo con la política anterior de que sea el usuario 
quien decida agregar al repositorio el "non-free" aunque sea un poco 
molesto para quien siempre los desea utilizar pero tambien tienen la 
versión del instalador con los non-free incluidos.


Pienso que la libertad viene con la libertad de decisión y oferta.

A como pueden haber quienes nunca usen los non-free del todo, de igual 
forma como hay quienes no pueden vivir sin ellos en sus repositorios.



Saludos.

On 29/10/22 05:44, Jose Ab bA wrote:

Efectivamente Camaleon!

A estas alturas cambiar la politica de paquetes y de instalacion... Es 
una manipulacion pretenciosa por parte de elementos oscuros... seguro!


Debian no necesita mas usuarios de los que ya tiene...

Y los usuarios que no sepan tratar con estos asuntos seguro que no se 
merecen usar una distro basada en software libre... porque seguro que 
ni aprecian ni saben que es el software libre.


Ya hay distros que hacen esto de manera predeterminada... que usen 
esas, que para eso estan...

Re: Ya hay decisión (era: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»)

2022-10-29 Thread Jose Ab bA

Efectivamente Camaleon!

A estas alturas cambiar la politica de paquetes y de instalacion... Es una
manipulacion pretenciosa por parte de elementos oscuros... seguro!

Debian no necesita mas usuarios de los que ya tiene...

Y los usuarios que no sepan tratar con estos asuntos seguro que no se
merecen usar una distro basada en software libre... porque seguro que ni
aprecian ni saben que es el software libre.

Ya hay distros que hacen esto de manera predeterminada... que usen esas,
que para eso estan...

Re: Ya hay decisión (era: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»)

2022-10-18 Thread alfon

> En resumen:
>
> 1. Se cambia el Contrato Social (un párrafo pequeño) para
> adecuarlo a la nueva realidad, que es que el medio de instalación
> oficial de Debian podrá contener paquetes privativos.
>
> 2. Sólo habrá un medio de instalación oficial de Debian, con paquetes
> libres y no libres mezclados, pero en teoría el usuario podrá desactivar
> la instalación de paquetes propietarios antes de iniciar el proceso de
> instalación (queda por ver cómo de efectivo resultará la pretensión y
> cómo lo expondrá el instalador sencillo dirigido a usuarios noveles).
> ...
>
> En fin... qué se le va a hacer.
>
> Ceder a estar alturas no me complace lo más mínimo.
>

Parece que el lema de: <> ya no es tan cierto como se afirma en la filosofía de Debian
(https://www.debian.org/intro/philosophy)

Re: Ya hay decisión (era: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»)

2022-10-17 Thread Parodper


O 16/10/22 ás 16:25, Camaleón escribiu:

2. Sólo habrá un medio de instalación oficial de Debian, con paquetes
libres y no libres mezclados, pero en teoría el usuario podrá desactivar
la instalación de paquetes propietarios antes de iniciar el proceso de
instalación (queda por ver cómo de efectivo resultará la pretensión y
cómo lo expondrá el instalador sencillo dirigido a usuarios noveles).


Me gustaría pensar que no sería difícil crear un instalador 
"semioficial" sin los paquetes privativos. Pero también es lo que dice 
Simon McVittie 
(https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2022/10/msg00013.html), alguien se 
tiene que encargar de eso.



3. El instalador informará de los paquetes propietarios que se van a
instalar (en tiempo rela) y una vez instalado el sistema, se podrá
consultar posteriormente alguna especie de archivo de registro o
similar con los paquetes que se hayan instalado desde «non-free».


También piensan sacar el firmware hacia una sección «non-free-firmware» 
nueva. Sigo manteniendo la idea de que se deberían aprovechar las 
categorías, y hacer que APT pueda filtrar la lista de paquetes según la 
configuración.



Si al menos la opción predeterminada hubiera sido que el instalador no
instalara paquetes propietarios SALVO que el usuario lo seleccionara a
conciencia, ESPECÍFICAMENTE, pues hubiera sido una transición un poco
más entendible.


Como la opción estará en el GRUB, no veo mucho problema. Se puede 
discutir si descargar, pero no instalar, código no libre va en contra de 
la filosofía del software libre. A efectos prácticos, yo diría que no 
hay problema.



Pero no, ahora de manera predeterminada si el kernel necesita algún
binario propietario se instalará, salvo que el usuario diga
EXPRESAMENTE que no.


Juraría haber oído que algún firmware, como el de los dispositivos de 
audio, se va a incluir sí o sí, para los invidentes.



En fin... qué se le va a hacer.

Ceder a estar alturas no me complace lo más mínimo.

:-(

¹https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003#outcome

Saludos,

Ya hay decisión (era: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»)

2022-10-16 Thread Camaleón

El 2022-08-28 a las 10:11 +0200, Camaleón escribió:

> Hola,
> 
> A través de Phoronix¹ leo que en Debian² se está llevando a cabo una 
> consulta sobre la política a seguir con los paquetes de firmware 
> non-free, que actualmente se tienen que instalar por separado y de 
> manera plenamente consciente, con el consiguiente perjuicio que causa 
> en las instalaciones, principalmente a los nuevos usuarios.

(...)

> ¹https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Non-Free-Firmware-GR
> ²https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003

Bueno, pues ya hay ganador para esta cuestión¹.

En resumen: 

1. Se cambia el Contrato Social (un párrafo pequeño) para 
adecuarlo a la nueva realidad, que es que el medio de instalación 
oficial de Debian podrá contener paquetes privativos.

2. Sólo habrá un medio de instalación oficial de Debian, con paquetes 
libres y no libres mezclados, pero en teoría el usuario podrá desactivar 
la instalación de paquetes propietarios antes de iniciar el proceso de 
instalación (queda por ver cómo de efectivo resultará la pretensión y 
cómo lo expondrá el instalador sencillo dirigido a usuarios noveles).

3. El instalador informará de los paquetes propietarios que se van a 
instalar (en tiempo rela) y una vez instalado el sistema, se podrá 
consultar posteriormente alguna especie de archivo de registro o 
similar con los paquetes que se hayan instalado desde «non-free».

Si al menos la opción predeterminada hubiera sido que el instalador no 
instalara paquetes propietarios SALVO que el usuario lo seleccionara a 
conciencia, ESPECÍFICAMENTE, pues hubiera sido una transición un poco 
más entendible.

Pero no, ahora de manera predeterminada si el kernel necesita algún 
binario propietario se instalará, salvo que el usuario diga 
EXPRESAMENTE que no.

En fin... qué se le va a hacer. 

Ceder a estar alturas no me complace lo más mínimo.

:-(

¹https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003#outcome

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-30 Thread fernando sainz

El mar, 30 ago 2022 a las 10:22, Eduardo Jorge Gil Michelena (<
egi...@yahoo.com.ar>) escribió:

> El lunes, 29 de agosto de 2022 04:10:01 ART, Camaleón 
> escribió:
>
> > Me cuesta ver algo bueno en recomendar y promover software propietario,
> > la verdad :-/
> >
> > ¹Lo que se debate ahora en Debian está relacionado exclusivamente con
> > el código firmware, no con programas o controladores propietarios.
> > Camaleón
>
> A ver...
> Tal parece que como LINUX viene de una larga tradición de "licencia
> pública" suele preferirse que todo sea de "licencia pública" y si se puede
> gratuita cosa que a mi me parece MUY bien y muy popular pero... que yo y
> unos cuantos más creamos en ciertas filosofías eso no implica que todos se
> adscriban a ella.
>
> El universo LINUX (que va más allá de Debian) es magnífico. Linux tiene
> muchas ventajas sobre otros SO, en especial en lo que refiere a la
> seguridad y estabilidad del sistema pero... lamentablemente tiene una gran
> falta en cuanto al software aplicativo disponible que en verdad y en
> ciertas áreas es extremadamente limitado.
>
> Supongo que tales limitaciones se deben justamente a las condiciones de
> "licencia pública" las que hacen que no haya tanto hard ni soft de calidad
> profesional disponible en ciertas áreas como por ejemplo la de edición de
> video en donde tanto las placas de video profesionales como el sofware de
> edición de video es inexistente. De hecho en Linux NO hay un buen software
> de edición profesional de video que llegue siquiera a igualar al SONY VEGAS
> de hace una década (en video, Linux retrasa más de 10 años) y en
> convertidores multimedia NO hay en Linux algo que se asemeje al Format
> Factory para Windows que convierte cualquier formato de audio, video y
> gráfico a cualquier otro con una facilidad de uso y una velocidad de
> ejecución varias veces más alta que cualquier conversor de video para Linux
> que además son MUY limitados.
>
> Supongo que en problema esta justamente en que Linux ha tenido una
> política de defensa a lo free que le ha jugado en contra para su evolución.
>
> No hace falta más que darse una vuelta por los repositorios de las APP
> para ANdroid para dar cuenta que hay muchas más aplicaciones para Android
> que para Linux.
>
> Linux debería cambiar sus políticas para que las empresas productoras de
> soft y harrd le sea beneficioso producir productos para Linux. Sino...
> Linux quedará rezagado... y en pocos años su entorno quedará sólo relegado
> a los servidores.
>





Hola.
Creo que mezclas churras con merinas.

Claro que hay software más avanzado en algunos campos para Windows que para
Linux, pero en otros es al revés.
Por supuesto nos olvidamos de que más del 99% de los supercomputadores del
mundo corren bajo versiones de Linux.

Aquí el tema es que el hardware lleva un firmware que antiguamente venía
incorporado en memorias "ROM" en el propio dispositivo y desde hace tiempo
eso cambió, primero pasando a memorias flash que permitían su actualización
y ahora ya directamente se carga desde el driver del mismo al arrancar el
equipo.

Antiguamente no había mucho dilema ya que el hardware y el firmware eran
todo uno y no había opción ni probablemente estas discusiones.

Ahora se complica un poco. La cuestión es que necesitamos un firmware para
cada dispositivo y si no existe una versión libre no podemos utilizarlo sin
cargar el firmware cerrado.

Que opciones tenemos en la instalación.
   - si existiera un firmware libre, debería cargarse por defecto y dar la
opción de usar el propietario si existiera.
   - Si no existe un firmware libre, avisar y dar la opción de cargar el
propietario o quedarnos sin el dispositivo en cuestión disponible.
  En ningún caso una pregunta genérica de cargar todos los firmware
propietarios, sino uno por uno.

En cuanto a las opciones que dan no se si la "B" es la que se adaptaría más
a esto, porque claro entra en juego el hecho de distribuir software
que no es libre, lo que no se si conlleva alguna limitación. (Cuando venia
en las memorias flash, no se daban estas cuestiones)
Tal vez el problema de la situación actual, (digamos la C) es que puedas
quedarte por ejemplo sin poder usar la wifi y complicarse un poco el tema
de la instalación del firmware propietario al no tener conexión para una
actualización fácil.

Por supuesto que lo ideal es que el firmware fuera completamente software
libre y hay que trabajar en ello y tal vez el no ponerlo muy fácil ayude a
que los fabricantes se decidan a liberarlos.


S2.

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-30 Thread Eduardo Jorge Gil Michelena

 El lunes, 29 de agosto de 2022 04:10:01 ART, Camaleón  
escribió:

> Me cuesta ver algo bueno en recomendar y promover software propietario,
> la verdad :-/
> 
> ¹Lo que se debate ahora en Debian está relacionado exclusivamente con
> el código firmware, no con programas o controladores propietarios.
> Camaleón

A ver...
Tal parece que como LINUX viene de una larga tradición de "licencia pública" 
suele preferirse que todo sea de "licencia pública" y si se puede gratuita cosa 
que a mi me parece MUY bien y muy popular pero... que yo y unos cuantos más 
creamos en ciertas filosofías eso no implica que todos se adscriban a ella.

El universo LINUX (que va más allá de Debian) es magnífico. Linux tiene muchas 
ventajas sobre otros SO, en especial en lo que refiere a la seguridad y 
estabilidad del sistema pero... lamentablemente tiene una gran falta en cuanto 
al software aplicativo disponible que en verdad y en ciertas áreas es 
extremadamente limitado.

Supongo que tales limitaciones se deben justamente a las condiciones de 
"licencia pública" las que hacen que no haya tanto hard ni soft de calidad 
profesional disponible en ciertas áreas como por ejemplo la de edición de video 
en donde tanto las placas de video profesionales como el sofware de edición de 
video es inexistente. De hecho en Linux NO hay un buen software de edición 
profesional de video que llegue siquiera a igualar al SONY VEGAS de hace una 
década (en video, Linux retrasa más de 10 años) y en convertidores multimedia 
NO hay en Linux algo que se asemeje al Format Factory para Windows que 
convierte cualquier formato de audio, video y gráfico a cualquier otro con una 
facilidad de uso y una velocidad de ejecución varias veces más alta que 
cualquier conversor de video para Linux que además son MUY limitados. 

Supongo que en problema esta justamente en que Linux ha tenido una política de 
defensa a lo free que le ha jugado en contra para su evolución.

No hace falta más que darse una vuelta por los repositorios de las APP para 
ANdroid para dar cuenta que hay muchas más aplicaciones para Android que para 
Linux.

 Linux debería cambiar sus políticas para que las empresas productoras de soft 
y harrd le sea beneficioso producir productos para Linux. Sino... Linux quedará 
rezagado... y en pocos años su entorno quedará sólo relegado a los servidores.

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-29 Thread hubble

On Sun, 28 Aug 2022 10:11:03 +0200
Camaleón  wrote:

> Hola,
> 
> A través de Phoronix¹ leo que en Debian² se está llevando a cabo una 
> consulta sobre la política a seguir con los paquetes de firmware 
> non-free, que actualmente se tienen que instalar por separado y de 
> manera plenamente consciente, con el consiguiente perjuicio que causa 
> en las instalaciones, principalmente a los nuevos usuarios.
> 
> En fin, la habitual dicotomía entre hacer lo correcto y sufrir un poco 
> las consecuencias o pasarse al lado oscuro (lo que yo llamo «el 
> modo vago»).
> 
> Las alternativas que hay sobre la mesa son:
> 
> A. Meter los paquetes de firmware non-free dentro del medio de 
> instalación, como si fueran uno más, sin que sea obligatoio informar al 
> usuario de esto.
> 
> B. Meter los paquetes non-free en el medio de instalación oficial pero 
> sólo cargarlos / instalarlos si son necesarios, informando al usuario y 
> permitiendo desactivar previamente esta opción.
> 
> Se mantienen dos medios por separado, dando preeminencia al medio de 
> instalación que contienen los paquetes de non-free.
> 
> C. Un poco como la situación actual, dos medios de instalación separados
> para que el usuario elija cuál descargar e instalar.
> 
> Desde mi punto de vista, la opción A no me convence en absoluto, 
> significa claudicar.
> 
> De la opción B no me fío, porque el kernel recomienda paquetes non-free 
> que no son necesarios así que el automatismo no funciona.
> 
> La opción C es la menos mala y la más sincera con los usuarios, pero 
> perjudica a los nuevos o a los más novatos que tienen que buscar e 
> informarse... lo que tampoco es malo >:-)
> 
> ¿Qué pensáis?
> 
> ¹https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Non-Free-Firmware-GR
> ²https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003
> 
> Saludos,
> 
> -- 
> Camaleón 
> 


Yo me quedo con la C que es más o menos como estamos. Así yo elijo a qué nivel 
de desvenguenza quiero trabajar.
Quien quiera comodidad a cambio de libertad que se vaya a otro sistema 
operativo. O sinó, ¿qué narices hacen usando debian?

Pobres binarios, no los quieren en debian, no los quieren los del LGTBI...

hubble, 8-)

--

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-29 Thread Camaleón

El 2022-08-29 a las 10:33 +0200, Javier Barroso escribió:

> Hola,
> 
> El lun., 29 ago. 2022 9:10, Camaleón  escribió:
> 
> > El 2022-08-29 a las 07:35 +0200, Javier Barroso escribió:
> >
> > Hola Javier,
> >
> > > El dom., 28 ago. 2022 10:11, Camaleón  escribió:
> > >
> > > > Hola,
> > > >
> > > > A través de Phoronix¹ leo que en Debian² se está llevando a cabo una
> > > > consulta sobre la política a seguir con los paquetes de firmware
> > > > non-free, que actualmente se tienen que instalar por separado y de
> > > > manera plenamente consciente, con el consiguiente perjuicio que causa
> > > > en las instalaciones, principalmente a los nuevos usuarios.
> >
> > (...)
> >
> > > >  ...
> > > >
> > > > ¿Qué pensáis?
> > >
> > >
> > > La opción A sí informa de qué se instala (al menos lo interpreto así),
> >
> > No me queda claro este punto.
> >
> > Si el usuario va a descargar la ISO de Debian para instalar y sólo ve
> > una opción (porque con la opción A sólo hay una imagen oficial que
> > contiene firmware non-free) pocas alternativas tiene ese usuario.

(...)

> > > Aún con un instalador libre vas a estar corriendo tu equipo con firmwares
> > > no libres (los que van integrados en la tarjeta gráfica, de red, etc),
> >
> > No, no... eso no es así, Javier.
> >
> > Yo ahora mismo no tengo habilitado el repo «non-free» y espero que mi
> > equipo no tenga ninguna pieza de software de código cerrado, faltaría
> > más.
> >
> 
> Ese es el tema da igual que tengas habilitado o no el repo non-free, las
> tarjetas gráficas y demás ya tienen incorporados su propio firmware antes
> de que el SO ponga nada. Ese firmware no es libre en el 99.9% de las veces
> 
> ¿Ahora me explico mejor?

La BIOS/UEFI tampoco es libre pero no es algo sobre lo que tengamos el 
control, ni nosotros ni Debian.

De lo que se trata en la decisión que tenga que tomar Debian es, 
primero de carácter técnico (¿quién y cómo se determina si debo/tengo 
que instalar cierto firmaware propietario o no?) y luego de carácter 
vocacional (¿hacia dónde queremos dirigirnos, debemos fomentar el uso de 
códígo porpietario?).

La opción A pretende «automatizar» y «simplificar» en exceso esa 
decisión, yo prefiero que sea el usuario quien decida lo que quiere 
hacer y que sea consecuente y plenamente consciente de sus actos, y que
de manera predeterminada se fomente desde Debian las opciones libres, 
obviamente.

Para que decidan por mi ya están Windows o Android :-)

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-29 Thread Javier Barroso

Hola,

El lun., 29 ago. 2022 9:10, Camaleón  escribió:

> El 2022-08-29 a las 07:35 +0200, Javier Barroso escribió:
>
> Hola Javier,
>
> > El dom., 28 ago. 2022 10:11, Camaleón  escribió:
> >
> > > Hola,
> > >
> > > A través de Phoronix¹ leo que en Debian² se está llevando a cabo una
> > > consulta sobre la política a seguir con los paquetes de firmware
> > > non-free, que actualmente se tienen que instalar por separado y de
> > > manera plenamente consciente, con el consiguiente perjuicio que causa
> > > en las instalaciones, principalmente a los nuevos usuarios.
>
> (...)
>
> > >  ...
> > >
> > > ¿Qué pensáis?
> >
> >
> > La opción A sí informa de qué se instala (al menos lo interpreto así),
>
> No me queda claro este punto.
>
> Si el usuario va a descargar la ISO de Debian para instalar y sólo ve
> una opción (porque con la opción A sólo hay una imagen oficial que
> contiene firmware non-free) pocas alternativas tiene ese usuario.
>
> Porque una vez que el instalador está en ejecución, poco margen de
> maniobra tienes. Es decir, con la opción A facilitas las cosas al lado
> oscuro y se las complicas a los caballeros Jedi.
>
> Es como darle un sable de luz a Vader y una ramita a Skywalker... y que
> luchen :-)
>
> No me parece justo, además de con esa acción fomentas el uso de
> firmware non-free en lugar de hacer pensar al usuario sobre las
> consecuencias de su uso, instruirle sobre el hardware que compra o las
> opciones que tiene.
>
> > lo que yo creo que sería deseable es que te dijera el instalador ,
> > "se va a instalar los componentes non free que te proporcionan la
> > siguientes funcionalidades:
> >
> > - 
> > - 
> >
> > Aceptar / instalar sin esos componentes (o incluso, (de)seleccione los
> > componentes non free y pulsa siguiente)
> >
> > Donde  e  son tanto los nombres de los componentes como su
> > descripción corta
>
> Ojalá fuera tan sencillo.
>
> Me temo que simplemente si el kernel «piensa» que necesita cierto
> código para funcionar, lo instalará, sin más, pero queda por resolver
> la cuestión técnica de si realmente el sistema necesita ese chorro de
> software binario cerrado para funcionar sin problemas.
>
> La parte técnica NO es está resuelta.
>
> > En la lista de debian-vote daban el argumento de la accesibilidad (para
> > ciegos por ejemplo) como algo fundamental para el instalador.
>
> Desconozco qué tipo de software-hardware gestiona esto, pero supongo
> que será como en todo: lo habrá cerrado y lo habrá libre. Y los
> usuarios que necesiten usarlo están en la misma tesitura que los demás:
> decidir qué usar y con pleno conocimiento de lo que hacen.
>
> > Aún con un instalador libre vas a estar corriendo tu equipo con firmwares
> > no libres (los que van integrados en la tarjeta gráfica, de red, etc),
>
> No, no... eso no es así, Javier.
>
> Yo ahora mismo no tengo habilitado el repo «non-free» y espero que mi
> equipo no tenga ninguna pieza de software de código cerrado, faltaría
> más.
>

Ese es el tema da igual que tengas habilitado o no el repo non-free, las
tarjetas gráficas y demás ya tienen incorporados su propio firmware antes
de que el SO ponga nada. Ese firmware no es libre en el 99.9% de las veces

¿Ahora me explico mejor?

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-29 Thread Camaleón

El 2022-08-29 a las 07:35 +0200, Javier Barroso escribió:

Hola Javier,

> El dom., 28 ago. 2022 10:11, Camaleón  escribió:
> 
> > Hola,
> >
> > A través de Phoronix¹ leo que en Debian² se está llevando a cabo una
> > consulta sobre la política a seguir con los paquetes de firmware
> > non-free, que actualmente se tienen que instalar por separado y de
> > manera plenamente consciente, con el consiguiente perjuicio que causa
> > en las instalaciones, principalmente a los nuevos usuarios.

(...)

> >  ...
> >
> > ¿Qué pensáis?
> 
> 
> La opción A sí informa de qué se instala (al menos lo interpreto así), 

No me queda claro este punto.

Si el usuario va a descargar la ISO de Debian para instalar y sólo ve 
una opción (porque con la opción A sólo hay una imagen oficial que 
contiene firmware non-free) pocas alternativas tiene ese usuario.

Porque una vez que el instalador está en ejecución, poco margen de 
maniobra tienes. Es decir, con la opción A facilitas las cosas al lado 
oscuro y se las complicas a los caballeros Jedi.

Es como darle un sable de luz a Vader y una ramita a Skywalker... y que 
luchen :-)

No me parece justo, además de con esa acción fomentas el uso de 
firmware non-free en lugar de hacer pensar al usuario sobre las 
consecuencias de su uso, instruirle sobre el hardware que compra o las 
opciones que tiene.

> lo que yo creo que sería deseable es que te dijera el instalador , 
> "se va a instalar los componentes non free que te proporcionan la 
> siguientes funcionalidades:
> 
> - 
> - 
> 
> Aceptar / instalar sin esos componentes (o incluso, (de)seleccione los
> componentes non free y pulsa siguiente)
> 
> Donde  e  son tanto los nombres de los componentes como su
> descripción corta

Ojalá fuera tan sencillo.

Me temo que simplemente si el kernel «piensa» que necesita cierto 
código para funcionar, lo instalará, sin más, pero queda por resolver 
la cuestión técnica de si realmente el sistema necesita ese chorro de 
software binario cerrado para funcionar sin problemas.

La parte técnica NO es está resuelta.
 
> En la lista de debian-vote daban el argumento de la accesibilidad (para
> ciegos por ejemplo) como algo fundamental para el instalador.

Desconozco qué tipo de software-hardware gestiona esto, pero supongo 
que será como en todo: lo habrá cerrado y lo habrá libre. Y los 
usuarios que necesiten usarlo están en la misma tesitura que los demás: 
decidir qué usar y con pleno conocimiento de lo que hacen.

> Aún con un instalador libre vas a estar corriendo tu equipo con firmwares
> no libres (los que van integrados en la tarjeta gráfica, de red, etc), 

No, no... eso no es así, Javier.

Yo ahora mismo no tengo habilitado el repo «non-free» y espero que mi 
equipo no tenga ninguna pieza de software de código cerrado, faltaría 
más.

Aunque se trata de algo distinto¹, hubo un momento en que sí instalaba 
el controlador propiedario de nvidia, pero ahora, aún y todo lo mal que 
está nouveau, me vale con el libre.

> en mi opinión facilitar al usuario el mejor rendimiento del equipo es lo
> deseable. Los firmwares llevan "toda la vida" en los repositorios, esto es
> ponerlos en el instalador al alcance de cualquiera.

Llevan toda la vida en repos separados y no habilitados de manera 
predeterninada, que no es lo mismo. 

Creo, sinceramente, que la base de Debian, y de cualquier sistema Linux 
debe ser la educación consciente del usuario, en hacer bien las cosas y 
no en atender a una necesidad o capricho puntual del usuario (eso 
significa pan para hoy y hambre para mañana).

Uno de los fines últimos de un sistema operativo libre debe ser hacer 
pensar. Si perdemos eso, perderemos nuestra esencia.
 
> Para los puristas con activar el modo libre al arrancar (igual que hemos
> estado usando el modo experto mucho tiempo) les tendría que ser suficiente

Yo quiero más ;-)

Quiero poder indentificarme con los valores que promueve mi sistema 
operativo, que el sistema operativo que elijo esté en mi misma línea de 
acción y de pensamiento. Y con este paso que dan se aleja más de lo que 
espero de una distribución como Debian.

De RedHat o Ubuntu lo puedo esperar; de Debian, no.

> Cualquiera de las tres opciones será buena para Debian y sus usuarios

Me cuesta ver algo bueno en recomendar y promover software propietario, 
la verdad :-/

¹Lo que se debate ahora en Debian está relacionado exclusivamente con 
el código firmware, no con programas o controladores propietarios.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-28 Thread Javier Barroso

Buenas,

El dom., 28 ago. 2022 10:11, Camaleón  escribió:

> Hola,
>
> A través de Phoronix¹ leo que en Debian² se está llevando a cabo una
> consulta sobre la política a seguir con los paquetes de firmware
> non-free, que actualmente se tienen que instalar por separado y de
> manera plenamente consciente, con el consiguiente perjuicio que causa
> en las instalaciones, principalmente a los nuevos usuarios.
>
> En fin, la habitual dicotomía entre hacer lo correcto y sufrir un poco
> las consecuencias o pasarse al lado oscuro (lo que yo llamo «el
> modo vago»).
>
> Las alternativas que hay sobre la mesa son:
>
> A. Meter los paquetes de firmware non-free dentro del medio de
> instalación, como si fueran uno más, sin que sea obligatoio informar al
> usuario de esto.
>
> B. Meter los paquetes non-free en el medio de instalación oficial pero
> sólo cargarlos / instalarlos si son necesarios, informando al usuario y
> permitiendo desactivar previamente esta opción.
>
> Se mantienen dos medios por separado, dando preeminencia al medio de
> instalación que contienen los paquetes de non-free.
>
> C. Un poco como la situación actual, dos medios de instalación separados
> para que el usuario elija cuál descargar e instalar.
>
>  ...
>
> ¿Qué pensáis?


La opción A sí informa de qué se instala (al menos lo interpreto así), lo
que yo creo que sería deseable es que te dijera el instalador , "se va a
instalar los componentes non free que te proporcionan la siguientes
funcionalidades:

- 
- 

Aceptar / instalar sin esos componentes (o incluso, (de)seleccione los
componentes non free y pulsa siguiente)

Donde  e  son tanto los nombres de los componentes como su
descripción corta

En la lista de debian-vote daban el argumento de la accesibilidad (para
ciegos por ejemplo) como algo fundamental para el instalador.

Aún con un instalador libre vas a estar corriendo tu equipo con firmwares
no libres (los que van integrados en la tarjeta gráfica, de red, etc), en
mi opinión facilitar al usuario el mejor rendimiento del equipo es lo
deseable. Los firmwares llevan "toda la vida" en los repositorios, esto es
ponerlos en el instalador al alcance de cualquiera.

Para los puristas con activar el modo libre al arrancar (igual que hemos
estado usando el modo experto mucho tiempo) les tendría que ser suficiente

Cualquiera de las tres opciones será buena para Debian y sus usuarios

Saludos

Re: Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-28 Thread Alejandro Liv

Disculpen mis faltas de ortografía, mandé el correo sin revisarlo antes.

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-28 Thread Alejandro Liv

Disculpen mis faltas de ortografía, mandé el correo sin querer sin
revisarlo antes. Me apena muchísimo.

El dom, 28 ago 2022 a las 23:54, Alejandro Liv ()
escribió:

> Entiendo perfectamente los motivos por los cuales se requiere el cambio, y
> considero que la opción objetiva, sería la C, ya que permite que tanto para
> los usuarios que quieren más "utilidad" sobre libertad puedan satisfacer
> sus necesidades, así como a los que nos importa la libertad sobre la
> "utilidad".
>
> Pero, esos usuarios no utilizan software libre, jústamente por la
> filosofía que lo sustenta. Por otro lado, no es como que ese software no
> libre sea increíblemente complicado de instalarlo, basta con cambiar una,
> repito una, PALABRA en un documento para poderlo tener.
>
> Complementando lo que dice Parodper, esos usuarios no usan Linux amig@,
> ellos utilizan Windows o MacOS. Es verdad que no todos los usuarios de
> software libre lo utilizan por su filosofía, pero justamente en esta
> comunidad es casi un requisito para usarlo y disfrutarlo. Nadie va a
> "sufrir" para obtener algo si lo puede obtener por menos que eso, por lo
> tanto, los que estamos no estamos aquí porque seamos unos masoquistas, sino
> porque como todas las cosas que los humanos sentimos que valen la pena,
> sabemos que no son gratis, "There is no free meal". Además, si lo que les
> molesta es la "complejidad", pero les gusta algo de lo que tenemos, pues
> hay otras versiones, como Ubuntu, que le "facilita" todo al usuario,
> justamente con una política que puede que no sea completamente compatible
> con la filosofía de software libre.
>
> Finalmente, me gustó el comentario de Marcelo Eduardo XD. Yo me imagino
> que sería como todo el ecosistema de Android. Tener que tirar mi equipo que
> funciona porque ya no hay actualizaciones de sistema; x o y aplicación sin
> soporte y, por consiguiente, a comprar otro equipo. Que los usuarios de
> otros sistemas me critiquen o molesten porque los mensajes que les mando
> aparecen con otro color que no es el de la manzana. Un ejército más grande
> todos los habitantes de China y la India juntos subiendo cientos de
> "tutoriales" de como hacer X o Y en Linux, todo copiado de la misma fuente,
> y narrado por niños que no tienen más de 9 años y todavía se defecan en la
> ropa interior. Ahora, espero que tu comentario fuera en tono sarcástico
> (así lo entendí yo), porque si lo que dices es en verdad, creo que estás
> mal informado o mal enfocado. El software libre no es menos popular por que
> los instaladores prefieran lo libre a lo privativo, como comenté arriba,
> únicamente basta con cambiar una palabra en un archivo, comparativamente
> con Windows es, por mucho, menos que cualquier tutorial de como instalar un
> crack para X programa. Tampoco porque sigamos prefiriendo la filosofía de
> Unix al desarrollar, algo que para casi todos los que no la usan y no
> conocen su potencial, al conocerlo dicen, "no puede ser que sea tan útil;
> con eso ya no tengo que abrir X programa súper 'pesado' para hacer las
> tareas repetitivas que hago como desarrollador de
> contenido/administrador/profesional de tal área/etc.", tiene que ver con el
> hecho de que las personas transgresoras e iconoclastas que somos queríamos
> algo "más", somos como artistas que buscan su siguiente lienzo, pieza de
> mármol, escenario, inspiración. Y como todo artista, somos caprichosos,
> rebeldes, irrespetuosos, inconformes, queremos hacer las cosas de la forma
> en la que "Nosotros las queremos hacer", no como todos los demás las hacen
> o nos dicen qué hacer, porque justamente sabemos que eso es mejor y más
> trascendente para nosotros y nuestra vida. Justamente por eso no somos
> populares, perdemos "mercado", porque al igual que la filosofía del
> lenguaje C, "nosotros SABEMOS LO QUE HACEMOS", y eso es uno de los
> problemas actuales de la humanidad, hoy en día hay más información que
> nunca en nuestra historia, pero, paradójicamente, hay menos conocimiento
> que en el pasado. Tal vez sean las secuelas de la reducción del coeficiente
> intelectual por el uso de plomo en los combustibles, plomo que no
> desaparece mágicamente, cayó a la tierra en donde cultivamos, al agua que
> bebemos, se mantiene en los cuerpos y huesos de los animales que comemos. O
> tal vez se aporque a la gente en general o la sociedad en la que viven, el
> conocimiento siempre les fue mostrado como síntoma de debilidad y ridículo,
> como cuando en los Simpsons Homer grita el ahora clásico
> "Neeerrd", como los medios de comunicación colocan al que
> estudia como el débil perdedor, simp pagafantas que sueña con la bonita de
> la escue

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-28 Thread Alejandro Liv

Entiendo perfectamente los motivos por los cuales se requiere el cambio, y
considero que la opción objetiva, sería la C, ya que permite que tanto para
los usuarios que quieren más "utilidad" sobre libertad puedan satisfacer
sus necesidades, así como a los que nos importa la libertad sobre la
"utilidad".

Pero, esos usuarios no utilizan software libre, jústamente por la filosofía
que lo sustenta. Por otro lado, no es como que ese software no libre sea
increíblemente complicado de instalarlo, basta con cambiar una, repito una,
PALABRA en un documento para poderlo tener.

Complementando lo que dice Parodper, esos usuarios no usan Linux amig@,
ellos utilizan Windows o MacOS. Es verdad que no todos los usuarios de
software libre lo utilizan por su filosofía, pero justamente en esta
comunidad es casi un requisito para usarlo y disfrutarlo. Nadie va a
"sufrir" para obtener algo si lo puede obtener por menos que eso, por lo
tanto, los que estamos no estamos aquí porque seamos unos masoquistas, sino
porque como todas las cosas que los humanos sentimos que valen la pena,
sabemos que no son gratis, "There is no free meal". Además, si lo que les
molesta es la "complejidad", pero les gusta algo de lo que tenemos, pues
hay otras versiones, como Ubuntu, que le "facilita" todo al usuario,
justamente con una política que puede que no sea completamente compatible
con la filosofía de software libre.

Finalmente, me gustó el comentario de Marcelo Eduardo XD. Yo me imagino que
sería como todo el ecosistema de Android. Tener que tirar mi equipo que
funciona porque ya no hay actualizaciones de sistema; x o y aplicación sin
soporte y, por consiguiente, a comprar otro equipo. Que los usuarios de
otros sistemas me critiquen o molesten porque los mensajes que les mando
aparecen con otro color que no es el de la manzana. Un ejército más grande
todos los habitantes de China y la India juntos subiendo cientos de
"tutoriales" de como hacer X o Y en Linux, todo copiado de la misma fuente,
y narrado por niños que no tienen más de 9 años y todavía se defecan en la
ropa interior. Ahora, espero que tu comentario fuera en tono sarcástico
(así lo entendí yo), porque si lo que dices es en verdad, creo que estás
mal informado o mal enfocado. El software libre no es menos popular por que
los instaladores prefieran lo libre a lo privativo, como comenté arriba,
únicamente basta con cambiar una palabra en un archivo, comparativamente
con Windows es, por mucho, menos que cualquier tutorial de como instalar un
crack para X programa. Tampoco porque sigamos prefiriendo la filosofía de
Unix al desarrollar, algo que para casi todos los que no la usan y no
conocen su potencial, al conocerlo dicen, "no puede ser que sea tan útil;
con eso ya no tengo que abrir X programa súper 'pesado' para hacer las
tareas repetitivas que hago como desarrollador de
contenido/administrador/profesional de tal área/etc.", tiene que ver con el
hecho de que las personas transgresoras e iconoclastas que somos queríamos
algo "más", somos como artistas que buscan su siguiente lienzo, pieza de
mármol, escenario, inspiración. Y como todo artista, somos caprichosos,
rebeldes, irrespetuosos, inconformes, queremos hacer las cosas de la forma
en la que "Nosotros las queremos hacer", no como todos los demás las hacen
o nos dicen qué hacer, porque justamente sabemos que eso es mejor y más
trascendente para nosotros y nuestra vida. Justamente por eso no somos
populares, perdemos "mercado", porque al igual que la filosofía del
lenguaje C, "nosotros SABEMOS LO QUE HACEMOS", y eso es uno de los
problemas actuales de la humanidad, hoy en día hay más información que
nunca en nuestra historia, pero, paradójicamente, hay menos conocimiento
que en el pasado. Tal vez sean las secuelas de la reducción del coeficiente
intelectual por el uso de plomo en los combustibles, plomo que no
desaparece mágicamente, cayó a la tierra en donde cultivamos, al agua que
bebemos, se mantiene en los cuerpos y huesos de los animales que comemos. O
tal vez se aporque a la gente en general o la sociedad en la que viven, el
conocimiento siempre les fue mostrado como síntoma de debilidad y ridículo,
como cuando en los Simpsons Homer grita el ahora clásico
"Neeerrd", como los medios de comunicación colocan al que
estudia como el débil perdedor, simp pagafantas que sueña con la bonita de
la escuela. No veo a la gente común fabricando estetoscopios, marcapasos,
medicamentos, vacunas, el último chip que hace que sus vehículos se manejen
solos, aviones, etc. en sus casas, porque se debe de saber lo que se hace y
eso tiene su dificultad. Por eso Linux no será un sistema súper familiar y
reconocido, porque la mejor herramienta es la que el experto domina. Es
verdad que todo es mejorable, pero por favor, en verdad crees que los miles
o millones de desarrolladores, que por defecto requiere

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-28 Thread Marcelo Eduardo Giordano

Me parece que linux tiene que ser algo simple para que cualquier pueda 
usarlo. Estamos muy bajos en participación en el mercado, por eso tantos 
problemas con drivers y aplicaciones.


Imaginemos como sería si Linux fuera el SO del 20% de las PCs del mundo.

Saludos amigos de la lista

Re: [OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-28 Thread Parodper


O 28/08/22 ás 10:11, Camaleón escribiu:
En fin, la habitual dicotomía entre hacer lo correcto y sufrir un 
poco las consecuencias o pasarse al lado oscuro (lo que yo llamo «el

modo vago»).


En verdad, a la mayoría de la gente eso de la libertad no le importa
demasiado. Los usuarios siempre buscan la comodidad (y no les culpo,
ellos compran el ordenador para usarlo, no para andar trasteando en él).

Desde mi punto de vista, la opción A no me convence en absoluto, 
significa claudicar.


Me preocupa un poco que esa sea la que tenga más apoyos. No creo que sea
tanto problema tener dos medios de instalación. Además que, a mi
parecer, el único caso en el que son imprescindibles los controladores
no libres es cuándo se use el netboot en ordenadores sin conexión
cableada. El resto de casos se pueden instalar a posteriori.

De la opción B no me fío, porque el kernel recomienda paquetes 
non-free que no son necesarios así que el automatismo no funciona.


Por lo que entiendo, la B es como la C, pero con cambios extra al
instalador, para que muestre más información y le pregunte al usuario si
necesita y quiere instalar los controladores no libres. Sea cuál fuere
la opción que gane, se debería mejorar la sección de controladores del
instalador, con los controladores que necesita cada dispositivo y la
opción de instalarlos.


La opción C es la menos mala y la más sincera con los usuarios, pero
 perjudica a los nuevos o a los más novatos que tienen que buscar e 
informarse... lo que tampoco es malo >:-)


También es la más sencilla: Solo habría que hacer que el botón de
descargar te lleve a una página con las dos opciones, y una pequeña
explicación.

Yo, si pudiera, votaría C > B > NA > A. Me gusta que Debian sea una
distribución libre, a pesar de que la FSF no la incluya en su lista.

También se hablaba de sacar los controladores no libres y meterlos en
una sección propia. En lugar de eso, se deberían mejorar el 
sources.list, para que de una cierta fuente solo se pudieran instalar 
los paquetes que coincidan con el filtro. Algo como:


deb [ tags=use::driver ] https://deb.debian.org/debian stable non-free

o, más avanzado:

deb [ match=?tag(use::driver) ] https://deb.debian.org/debian stable 
3non-free

[OT] Debian decide sobre su política de paquetes firmware «non-free»

2022-08-28 Thread Camaleón

Hola,

A través de Phoronix¹ leo que en Debian² se está llevando a cabo una 
consulta sobre la política a seguir con los paquetes de firmware 
non-free, que actualmente se tienen que instalar por separado y de 
manera plenamente consciente, con el consiguiente perjuicio que causa 
en las instalaciones, principalmente a los nuevos usuarios.

En fin, la habitual dicotomía entre hacer lo correcto y sufrir un poco 
las consecuencias o pasarse al lado oscuro (lo que yo llamo «el 
modo vago»).

Las alternativas que hay sobre la mesa son:

A. Meter los paquetes de firmware non-free dentro del medio de 
instalación, como si fueran uno más, sin que sea obligatoio informar al 
usuario de esto.

B. Meter los paquetes non-free en el medio de instalación oficial pero 
sólo cargarlos / instalarlos si son necesarios, informando al usuario y 
permitiendo desactivar previamente esta opción.

Se mantienen dos medios por separado, dando preeminencia al medio de 
instalación que contienen los paquetes de non-free.

C. Un poco como la situación actual, dos medios de instalación separados
para que el usuario elija cuál descargar e instalar.

Desde mi punto de vista, la opción A no me convence en absoluto, 
significa claudicar.

De la opción B no me fío, porque el kernel recomienda paquetes non-free 
que no son necesarios así que el automatismo no funciona.

La opción C es la menos mala y la más sincera con los usuarios, pero 
perjudica a los nuevos o a los más novatos que tienen que buscar e 
informarse... lo que tampoco es malo >:-)

¿Qué pensáis?

¹https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Non-Free-Firmware-GR
²https://www.debian.org/vote/2022/vote_003

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón

AW: Topic su- sudo su su -

2022-07-26 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Thank You.



Von: David Wright 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. Juli 2022 01:42
An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
Betreff: Re: Topic su- sudo su

On Sun 24 Jul 2022 at 12:12:47 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 10:06:07AM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> > Thank You for help.
> > Sorry for forgotten topic.
> >
> > So
> > install is
>
> I don't quite understand what you are trying to say,

The post seems to be a long-delayed response to:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/06/msg00423.html

> but in any
> case...
>
> > open terminal
> > su-
>^^^ ...there is a space missing here.
>
> If you want that to work, it is "su -" and not "su-".

… as you might remember writing in:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/05/msg00693.html

Cheers,
David.

Re: Topic su- sudo su

2022-07-25 Thread tomas

On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 08:42:35PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

[...]

> … as you might remember writing in:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/05/msg00693.html

I wish I had a memory half as good as yours :)

cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Topic su- sudo su

2022-07-25 Thread David Wright

On Sun 24 Jul 2022 at 12:12:47 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 10:06:07AM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> > 
> > Hello
> > Thank You for help.
> > Sorry for forgotten topic.
> > 
> > So
> > install is
> 
> I don't quite understand what you are trying to say,

The post seems to be a long-delayed response to:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/06/msg00423.html

> but in any
> case...
> 
> > open terminal
> > su-
>^^^ ...there is a space missing here.
> 
> If you want that to work, it is "su -" and not "su-".

… as you might remember writing in:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/05/msg00693.html

Cheers,
David.

AW: Topic su - sudo su

2022-07-24 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Sorry

su .

not su-

Thank You

Regards
Sophie

Von: to...@tuxteam.de
Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. Juli 2022 10:12
Bis: Schwibinger Michael
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Topic su- sudo su

On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 10:06:07AM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
>
> Hello
> Thank You for help.
> Sorry for forgotten topic.
>
> So
> install is

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say, but in any
case...

> open terminal
> su-
   ^^^ ...there is a space missing here.

If you want that to work, it is "su -" and not "su-".

> Password
>
> and so on.

Enjoy
--
tomás

Topic su- sudo su

2022-07-24 Thread Schwibinger Michael

Hello
Thank You for help.
Sorry for forgotten topic.

So
install is

open terminal
su-
Password

and so on.

Regards

Sophie

Von: to...@tuxteam.de
Gesendet: Sonntag, 01. Mai 2022 11:24
Bis: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Betreff: Re: Firmaware II

On Sun, May 01, 2022 at 10:53:14AM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good morning
> Thank You for help.
>
> Do we need this?
>
> We dont use WIFI
> we do connect the PC and the router with cable.

That depends on your hardware. Most Ethernet hardware
works without firmware.

> ***
>
> Short question.
>
> update-grub
> command not found
> What did we do wrong?

Are you running as root?

Cheers
--
t

Re: Topic su- sudo su

2022-07-24 Thread to...@tuxteam.de

On Sun, Jul 24, 2022 at 10:06:07AM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> 
> Hello
> Thank You for help.
> Sorry for forgotten topic.
> 
> So
> install is

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say, but in any
case...

> open terminal
> su-
   ^^^ ...there is a space missing here.

If you want that to work, it is "su -" and not "su-".

> Password
> 
> and so on.

Enjoy
-- 
tomás


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Sudo or su ? [WAS Re: Firmware III grub]

2022-06-12 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater

On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 05:06:01PM +, Schwibinger Michael wrote:
> Good evening
> 

Good evening, Sophie

Could I ask a favour from you, please?

If you start a new question or a new topic, could you please change the 
subject line of your message. This may make things easier to follow.

If you need to operate as root equivalent then you have two ways of doing so:

If you have sudo set up, you will normally work as a normal user. 
If you need to "become root" then

 sudo -s

will give you the equivalent privileges of root.

If you have a password set for root and an enabled root user then

 su -

will give you root privileges and you will need to supply the root user 
password. 

Some people advise on one or the other: sudo can be limited so that
specific commands can be limited to one user, for example.

apt / apt-get and other package installation programs need root privileges

If you are logged in as a normal user, sudo apt would work if you had set
up sudo.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater

> Thank You
> 
> Is the most easy way for
> update
> and root managing
> 
> su
> su -
> sudo?
> 
> Tegards
> Sophie
> 
> 
> 
> Von: Greg Wooledge 
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 24. Mai 2022 19:16
> An: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Betreff: Re: Firmware III grub
> 
> On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 09:07:46PM +0200, Siard wrote:
> > I accomplished the same by creating /usr/local/bin/su containing these 
> > lines:
> >
> > #! /bin/sh
> > PATH=$PATH:/sbin:/usr/sbin
> > /bin/su
> >
> > and making it executable.
> 
> Clever.  But the final line should be:
> 
> exec /bin/su "$@"
> 
> I still prefer the /etc/default/su solution from the wiki, though.
>

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-23 Thread Lee

On 5/22/22, Charles Kroeger  wrote:
>> There is no silver bullet that makes your system secure.
>
> I get a login shell with $su --login
>
> I don't have sudo installed
>
> is there something heretical about that, I should know?

If this is for your personal machine, no.

If this is a multi-user environment, you should be changing the root
password whenever someone that knows the root password leaves.  If you
use sudo exclusively to get root permissions then the number of people
leaving that could require a root password change is potentially
smaller.

Lee

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread tomas

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 03:32:22PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2022-05-22 at 14:53, Charles Kroeger wrote:
> 
> >> There is no silver bullet that makes your system secure.
> > 
> > I get a login shell with $su --login
> > 
> > I don't have sudo installed
> > 
> > is there something heretical about that, I should know?
> 
> Not heretical, but - if something has compromised your user environment,
> it could have replaced the command 'su' with a function which captures
> the password you type [...]

Less antagonistic, but also of practical importance -- sudo lets you
acquire usage patterns which improve your chances to not fat-finger
things.

As others have said, sudo can be subverted (nearly) as easily as
su can. IOW, if someone has control of your execution environment
and if you can reach privilege escalation from there, all bets are
up.

[...]

> (The old story about hacking the source of gcc to detect when it's
> compiling /bin/login and insert a backdoor, and to detect when it's
> compiling gcc and insert code to make it do both of these
> detect-and-insert operations [...]

That would be Ken Thompson's 1983 Turing Award lecture [1]. Much
recommended.

But not all is lost. David A. Wheeler (a free software and Linux
regular, BTW) has taken on this [2]. Here's Bruce Schneier on
Wheeler's paper [3].

Cheers

]1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/358198.358210
[2] https://dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/
[3] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_trus.html

-- 
tomás

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Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 09:37:43PM +0200, basti wrote:
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=918754#41
> 
> or use su -l

For the record, that URL says:

  This is a new behavior because the util-linux implementation of su is
  used now. See also /usr/share/doc/util-linux/NEWS.Debian.gz for more
  information.

  "If you want to restore behaviour more similar to
the previous one you can add 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes' in /etc/login.defs."

The advice in the second paragraph will *technically* work, and for a
little while we thought it was the best available workaround.

However, there is a problem with that one: the settings in /etc/login.defs
are *also* read by the login(1) program.  If you add the indicated line
to /etc/login.defs then you will get a warning every time you login on
a text console.  The warning can be ignored, but it's confusing and scary.

Putting the line in /etc/default/su instead works much better.  That file
isn't read by login(1), so you don't get scary warnings on console logins.
That's why we changed the wiki to support that solution instead of the
older one.

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread basti

Am 20.05.22 um 02:24 schrieb Kenneth Parker:

On Thu, May 19, 2022, 4:14 AM 황병희 <mailto:soyeo...@doraji.xyz>> wrote:

Tom Browder mailto:tom.brow...@gmail.com>>
writes:

 > I need a special path setting for root after both "sudo" and "sudo
 > su." (...)

Just you try like as "sudo su -". Sometimes i use it that way.

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _白衣從軍_ 감사합니다_^))//

When I need Root on a Desktop, I bring up a shell, enter "su -" and give 
it the Root Password.

Note, Debian (at least in the Expert Installation Mode) lets me set a 
Root Password.   Ubuntu doesn't, so one of my early actions after the 
Install is to enter "sudo su -" and, on the resulting Root Shell, type 
"passwd root".

On a Virtual Terminal, I simply login as Root on one terminal, and on 
the next one, sign on as my "Normal User" (and then do most of my work 
there).

I know there have been Discussions here about sudo vs "su -". They both 
work, but both can get you in trouble (but possibly in different ways).

Kenneth Parker

Kenneth Parker

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=918754#41

or use su -l

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread The Wanderer

On 2022-05-22 at 14:53, Charles Kroeger wrote:

>> There is no silver bullet that makes your system secure.
> 
> I get a login shell with $su --login
> 
> I don't have sudo installed
> 
> is there something heretical about that, I should know?

Not heretical, but - if something has compromised your user environment,
it could have replaced the command 'su' with a function which captures
the password you type, stores it for later use by malware (or even
uploads it to a remote server), and then invokes su properly (with the
same parameters you gave) so that you won't notice that this has happened.

The point / gist of this particular subthread seems to be that there is
no effective way to prevent this from happening - or even to *detect* it
with certainty, other than examining the hard drive while booted into a
running environment which has not itself been compromised.

(The old story about hacking the source of gcc to detect when it's
compiling /bin/login and insert a backdoor, and to detect when it's
compiling gcc and insert code to make it do both of these
detect-and-insert operations, comes to mind. That story as I learned it
always ended with the note that the guy doesn't *think* he ever let a
version of gcc which had been compiled to do these things out into the
wild... but he isn't completely certain.)

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

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Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread Charles Kroeger

> There is no silver bullet that makes your system secure.

I get a login shell with $su --login

I don't have sudo installed

is there something heretical about that, I should know?

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread Tom Browder

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 11:04 Greg Wooledge  wrote:
...

> So... we literally can't tell what you did.

I think that character munging is because of the unwanted, unedititible
html mail from my ipad gmail client.

Still wondering why you can't just use the other solutions you've been
> given.  If it's the Docker thing, tell me now, so I can stop wasting my
> time.

The "sudo -i some-command" seems to satisfy my current needs. (And I am not
a regular docker user yet.)

Thanks for your help, and please don't waste any more time on my account

-Tom

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread Tom Browder

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 10:40 Greg Wooledge  wrote:
...

> So, I've already given you the solution that *I* would use, which is:
>
> ln -s /opt/raku/bin/raku /usr/local/bin/raku

That works fine, but another part of the work flow for nstallation is the
need to access another Raku program which must be run by both root and the
user--linking doesn't work because of some subtleties I don't understand.

So far the use of "sudo -i some-command" works for my current needs.

As I said a bit earlier: I can live with that.

-Tom

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 10:48:44AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> Yes, I actually used that syntax but failed to put it in the message—same
> result:
> 
>  sudo —preserve-env=PATH raku -v
>  sudo: raku: command not found

You might have misspelled --preserve.  It's hard to tell, because
what you've got in your email message is a Unicode character, represented
in UTF-8 by the three bytes 0xe2 0x80 0x94.  According to a Google search,
that's "em dash U+2014".  So, it's not clear whether you actually
typed (or pasted) that em dash character into your shell, or whether
you had -- in your shell, but it somehow got mangled into em dash when
you pasted (or typed?) it into your email.

Somewhat to my surprise, sudo *does not* report an error if you feed it
an em dash in this position:

unicorn:~$ echo "$PATH"
/home/greg/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/home/greg/.dotnet/tools:/sbin:/usr/sbin
unicorn:~$ sudo sh -c 'echo "$PATH"'
[sudo] password for greg: 
/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin
unicorn:~$ sudo --preserve-env=PATH sh -c 'echo "$PATH"'
/home/greg/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games:/home/greg/.dotnet/tools:/sbin:/usr/sbin
unicorn:~$ sudo —preserve-env=PATH sh -c 'echo "$PATH"'
/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin

So... we literally can't tell what you did.

Still wondering why you can't just use the other solutions you've been
given.  If it's the Docker thing, tell me now, so I can stop wasting my
time.

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread Tom Browder

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 09:02  wrote:
…

Socratic -- I fear you over-estimate me badly :-)

You are too modest!

Note that the key --preserve-env takes an arg. That would be
>
>   --preserve-env=PATH
>
> to pass on the PATH environment variable. The arg is a comma separated
> list of environment variable names.

Yes, I actually used that syntax but failed to put it in the message—same
result:

 sudo —preserve-env=PATH raku -v
 sudo: raku: command not found

The only thing that worked was:

  $ sudo -i raku -v

and I can live with that for now.

But, if I try making an entry in a sudoer file (to eliminate needing the
‘-i’ arg), is this the right syntax:

env_keep=PATH

Cheers!

-Tom

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-22 Thread tomas

[reinserted the copy to list: others tend to have better
ideas than me]

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 06:15:57AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 11:28  wrote:
> ...
> 
> > I'm sure the OP is now able to locate that "security policy" config
> > and change it to taste. "--preserve-env=PATH" is quite a mouthful
> > and one doesn't want to type it all the time :-)
> 
> 
> I'm zeroing in on the solution your Socratic method is nudging me toward,
> but, at the CLI, I get results that are confusing, to wit:

Socratic -- I fear you over-estimate me badly :-)

> $ sudo -i raku -v
> Welcome to Rakudo...
> 
> but
> 
> $ sudo -E raku -v
> sudo: raku: command not found
> 
> and also
> 
> $ sudo --preserve-env raku -v
> sudo: raku: command not found

Note that the key --preserve-env takes an arg. That would be

  --preserve-env=PATH

to pass on the PATH environment variable. The arg is a comma separated
list of environment variable names.

Cheers
> 
> -Tom


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Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread tomas

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 06:04:07PM +0200, Linux-Fan wrote:
> Greg Wooledge writes:
> 
> > On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 10:04:01AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> > > I am getting nowhere fast.
> > 
> > OK, let's start at the beginning.
> > 
> > You have raku installed in some directory that is not in a regular PATH.
> > 
> > You won't tell us what this directory is, so let's pretend it's
> > /opt/raku/bin/raku.
> 
> [...]
> 
> > The voices in your head will tell you that you absolutely must use
> > sudo to perform your privilege elevation.
> > 
> > Therefore the third solution for you: configure sudo so that it does
> > what you want.
> > 
> > Next, of course, the voices in your head will tell you that configuring
> > sudo is not permissible.  You have to do this in... gods, I don't know...
> 
> [...]
> 
> There is also `sudo -E` to preserve environment and
> `sudo --preserve-env=PATH` that could be used to probably achieve the
> behaviour of interest.

Exactly. The man page tells us (hint, hint ;-)

-E doesn't preserve PATH on my system, but --preserve-env=PATH does.

This surely has to do with the "security policy" mentioned in the
man page (passing PATH to a root shell is a wonderful opportunity
for a root privilege escalation, after all, so it makes sense to
not establish it as a default).

I'm sure the OP is now able to locate that "security policy" config
and change it to taste. "--preserve-env=PATH" is quite a mouthful
and one doesn't want to type it all the time :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread Linux-Fan


Greg Wooledge writes:


On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 10:04:01AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> I am getting nowhere fast.

OK, let's start at the beginning.

You have raku installed in some directory that is not in a regular PATH.

You won't tell us what this directory is, so let's pretend it's
/opt/raku/bin/raku.


[...]


The voices in your head will tell you that you absolutely must use
sudo to perform your privilege elevation.

Therefore the third solution for you: configure sudo so that it does
what you want.

Next, of course, the voices in your head will tell you that configuring
sudo is not permissible.  You have to do this in... gods, I don't know...


[...]

There is also `sudo -E` to preserve environment and
`sudo --preserve-env=PATH` that could be used to probably achieve the  
behaviour of interest. If this is not permitted by security policy but  
arbitrary commands to run with sudo are, consider creating a startup script  
(or passing it directly at the `sudo` commandline) that sets the necessary  
environment for the raku program.


That being said: On my systems I mostly synchronize the bashrc of root and my  
regular users such that all share the same PATH. I tend to interactively  
become root and hence ensure that the scripts are run all of the time. This  
has mostly survived the mentioned change in `su` behaviour and observable  
variations between `sudo -s` and `su` behaviours are kept at a minimum.


HTH and YMMV
Linux-Fan

öö


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Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 10:04:01AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
> I am getting nowhere fast.

OK, let's start at the beginning.

You have raku installed in some directory that is not in a regular PATH.

You won't tell us what this directory is, so let's pretend it's
/opt/raku/bin/raku.

You have added /opt/raku/bin to your regular account's PATH.  The "raku"
command works as long as you are yourself.

You would like it to work after you use an elevation command to become
root.

So, I've already given you the solution that *I* would use, which is:

ln -s /opt/raku/bin/raku /usr/local/bin/raku

After that, you can remove /opt/raku/bin from your regular account's
PATH, if you wish.  Or keep it.  Either way is fine.

For some reason, however, you don't like this solution.  You won't tell
us why.  Maybe the voices in your head are telling you that symlinks
will corrupt your precious bodily fluids.  Who knows.

So, you would like to perform a privilege elevation command and keep
your regular account's PATH variable.

Well, guess what?  As it turns out, the incredibly stupid behavior of
buster's "su" command does exactly that.

There's your second solution: use "su" (without creating an /etc/default/su
config file) in buster or bullseye or later as your privilege elevation
command.

Next, of course, you will tell us that the voices in your head won't
permit this answer either, because no answer that you are given will
ever be acceptable.

The voices in your head will tell you that you absolutely must use
sudo to perform your privilege elevation.

Therefore the third solution for you: configure sudo so that it does
what you want.

Next, of course, the voices in your head will tell you that configuring
sudo is not permissible.  You have to do this in... gods, I don't know...
a spun-up instance of a Docker system with no customization allowed.
You will require a solution that works in an absolutely vanilla unmodified
Debian-like mini-instance provided by some Docker idiot.  And therefore
every solution offered will be unacceptable.

At that point, sod off.

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread Tom Browder

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 09:02 Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 03:19:09PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > Less typing, more general. Nobody's trying to dissuade you of doing
> > "sudo bash" or "sudo su" or...
>

I am getting nowhere fast. I think all will be okay if (and only if) I can
do these two things:

1. define root's path for a login shell

If I read the bash docs correctly, I can set the path in either
/etc/profile or /root/.profile.

2. define root's path for a non-login shell

If I read the bash docs correctly, I can set the path either in
/etc/bash.bashrc or /root/.bashrc.

If those assumptions are correct, then, with the proper incantation of a
one-shot sudo command, the command should use the expected path for root
and use a raku script to install a compiled C executable and its associated
products (specifically openssl and apache2) to their proper places on the
system, i.e., provide the same result as 'sudo make install'.

At this point I am not concerned with becoming root for multiple commands,
just:

   $ sudo [perhaps with some sudo args] some-user-space-command with
args

So, are my assumptions correct? If do, what are the proper sudo args for
each use, if any?

Thanks.

-Tom

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread Greg Wooledge

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 03:19:09PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> Less typing, more general. Nobody's trying to dissuade you of doing
> "sudo bash" or "sudo su" or...

I'm definitely trying to dissuade people from doing the latter.  It's
one of those horrible memes that has spread maliciously for a decade
or two, to the extent that many people actually think it's correct,
because they've seen it so often.

"sudo bash" isn't bad.  It's the simplest and clearest way to choose
the shell you want to use after the privilege change, just in case
the user account you're switching to has something like /bin/true
listed as its shell, etc.

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread tomas

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 11:12:01AM +, Lee wrote:
> On 5/19/22, Tom Browder  wrote:
> > On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 03:54 Kamil Jońca  wrote:
> >
> >> It is quite misterious for me.
> >> What is the purpose of "sudo su" instead of plain "sudo" or "sudo -i"
> <  .. snip ..>
> >
> > I have for years now not used the many variants of su, just "sudo" alone
> > for one-off use and "sudo su" when I'm doing several things as root.
> 
> Why not "sudo bash" when you want to do several things as root?

Well, that's what sudo -s and sudo -i do; only that they are smarter
than this and choose "your" (for one of several possible values of
"your") favourite shell (be it bash or other).  Straight from the man
page:

  -i, --login
 Run the shell specified by the target user's password database
 entry as a login shell.  This means that login-specific resource
 files such as .profile, .bash_profile or .login will be read
 by the shell [...]

  -s, --shell
 Run the shell specified by the SHELL environment variable if
 it is set or the shell specified by the invoking user's password
 database entry [...]

Kids, read the man page ;-)

Less typing, more general. Nobody's trying to dissuade you of doing
"sudo bash" or "sudo su" or... (hey, let's play Rube Goldberg a bit)
"sudo perl -e 'system(bash)'". But most, most of the time, sudo -i
or sudo -s will do what you want.

Cheers
-- 
t

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Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread Brian

On Sat 21 May 2022 at 12:24:04 +0100, Tixy wrote:

> On Fri, 2022-05-20 at 18:44 +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 19 May 2022 at 20:24:50 -0400, Kenneth Parker wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > Note, Debian (at least in the Expert Installation Mode) lets me set a Root
> > > Password.   Ubuntu doesn't, so one of my early actions after the Install 
> > > is
> > > to enter "sudo su -" and, on the resulting Root Shell, type "passwd root".
> > 
> > Depends on whta you mean by "Ubuntu". Its mini.iso offers settong a root
> > password. I wonder whether the regular ISO can be preseeded?
> > 
> Don't think the mini.iso exists any more. I recently needed to install
> Ubuntu and the only options I could find where the full Gnome GUI or
> the Server install. I went for the latter with the extra crud that
> pulls in because I wanted to start from as minimal install as I could
> before adding the things I needed.

Looks like the situation on jammy (22.04) is as you say. However, not
so for focal (20.04):

http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/focal/main/installer-amd64/current/

I downloaded the mini.iso last year and upgraded to jammy.

-- 
Brian.

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread Tixy

On Fri, 2022-05-20 at 18:44 +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Thu 19 May 2022 at 20:24:50 -0400, Kenneth Parker wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Note, Debian (at least in the Expert Installation Mode) lets me set a Root
> > Password.   Ubuntu doesn't, so one of my early actions after the Install is
> > to enter "sudo su -" and, on the resulting Root Shell, type "passwd root".
> 
> Depends on whta you mean by "Ubuntu". Its mini.iso offers settong a root
> password. I wonder whether the regular ISO can be preseeded?
> 
Don't think the mini.iso exists any more. I recently needed to install
Ubuntu and the only options I could find where the full Gnome GUI or
the Server install. I went for the latter with the extra crud that
pulls in because I wanted to start from as minimal install as I could
before adding the things I needed.

-- 
Tixy

Re: setting path for root after "sudo su" and "sudo" for Debian Bullseye (11)

2022-05-21 Thread Lee

On 5/19/22, Tom Browder  wrote:
> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 03:54 Kamil Jońca  wrote:
>
>> It is quite misterious for me.
>> What is the purpose of "sudo su" instead of plain "sudo" or "sudo -i"
<  .. snip ..>
>
> I have for years now not used the many variants of su, just "sudo" alone
> for one-off use and "sudo su" when I'm doing several things as root.

Why not "sudo bash" when you want to do several things as root?

Lee

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