Re: CMS Migration for Flex

[Dave Fisher]

The Migration from CMS to ASF-Pelican is completed!

https://flex.apache.org/ is ready.

https://github.com/apache/flex-site/

For information about ASF-Pelican: https://infra.apache.org/asf-pelican.html

Enjoy!
Dave

> On Jun 14, 2021, at 11:08 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> The migrated website may be viewed at https://flex.staged.apache.org/
> 
> The code is in https://github.com/apache/flex-site/tree/main
> 
> See the README there for links to details about the migration and ASF pelican.
> 
> The FlexUnit tutorials required the most work.
> 
> Note the old cms git mirror (which is broken (that’s good)) of the CMS was 
> used.
> 
> Please review, I would like to make this production in the next week.
> 
> All The Best,
> Dave
> 
>> On Jun 9, 2021, at 11:30 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> As you may recall the Apache CMS has been deprecated for over five years now 
>> and will be decommissioned
>> by July 31, 2021.
>> 
>> I’ve been tasked with moving OpenWebBeans's website away from the Apache CMS.
>> I will migrate your website to a Pelican build with GitHub Flavored Markdown 
>> (GFM).
>> For your reference the already migrated www-site is here 
>> https://github.com/apache/www-site/
>> 
>> The following will occur.
>> - flex-site git repository is already a mirror of the CMS content. We’ll 
>> create a main branch.
>> - CMS mdtext and Cmspage files are converted to md and stored in the content 
>> tree.
>> - Page templates will be converted essentially as is with some minor 
>> improvements.
>> - HTML files (apidocs) built separately are copied into the content tree. 
>> 
>> The Apache CMS had a cumbersome process of individual checkouts -> staging 
>> -> publishing.
>> The new branching strategy is as follows:
>> - main will have the site content sources and any additional docs (like api 
>> docs).
>> - asf-site will have the production website which is automatically deployed 
>> to flex.apache.org.
>> During the migration we will deploy to flex.staged.apache.org
>> - preview/release will have the website prepared for the next release. You 
>> will add release specific docs to this branch
>> - preview/release-staging will have the built preview website which is 
>> automatically deployed to flex-release.staged.apache.org
>> 
>> This new plan allows for a redesign of your site without danger of premature 
>> deployment.
>> If you decide that GFM is not for flex then you can switch to a different 
>> process within a preview branch.
>> 
>> Release steps for the website could be:
>> - Branch main as preview/release
>> - Make your updates to preview/release
>> - Confirm your changes on flex-release.staged.apache.org
>> - Pull your changes from preview/release to main. flex.apache.org is 
>> automatically updated.
>> 
>> All The Best,
>> Dave Fisher
> 

Re: CMS Migration for Flex

[Dave Fisher]

The migrated website may be viewed at https://flex.staged.apache.org/

The code is in https://github.com/apache/flex-site/tree/main

See the README there for links to details about the migration and ASF pelican.

The FlexUnit tutorials required the most work.

Note the old cms git mirror (which is broken (that’s good)) of the CMS was used.

Please review, I would like to make this production in the next week.

All The Best,
Dave

> On Jun 9, 2021, at 11:30 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> As you may recall the Apache CMS has been deprecated for over five years now 
> and will be decommissioned
> by July 31, 2021.
> 
> I’ve been tasked with moving OpenWebBeans's website away from the Apache CMS.
> I will migrate your website to a Pelican build with GitHub Flavored Markdown 
> (GFM).
> For your reference the already migrated www-site is here 
> https://github.com/apache/www-site/
> 
> The following will occur.
> - flex-site git repository is already a mirror of the CMS content. We’ll 
> create a main branch.
> - CMS mdtext and Cmspage files are converted to md and stored in the content 
> tree.
> - Page templates will be converted essentially as is with some minor 
> improvements.
> - HTML files (apidocs) built separately are copied into the content tree. 
> 
> The Apache CMS had a cumbersome process of individual checkouts -> staging -> 
> publishing.
> The new branching strategy is as follows:
> - main will have the site content sources and any additional docs (like api 
> docs).
> - asf-site will have the production website which is automatically deployed 
> to flex.apache.org.
> During the migration we will deploy to flex.staged.apache.org
> - preview/release will have the website prepared for the next release. You 
> will add release specific docs to this branch
> - preview/release-staging will have the built preview website which is 
> automatically deployed to flex-release.staged.apache.org
> 
> This new plan allows for a redesign of your site without danger of premature 
> deployment.
> If you decide that GFM is not for flex then you can switch to a different 
> process within a preview branch.
> 
> Release steps for the website could be:
> - Branch main as preview/release
> - Make your updates to preview/release
> - Confirm your changes on flex-release.staged.apache.org
> - Pull your changes from preview/release to main. flex.apache.org is 
> automatically updated.
> 
> All The Best,
> Dave Fisher

CMS Migration for Flex

[Dave Fisher]

As you may recall the Apache CMS has been deprecated for over five years now 
and will be decommissioned
by July 31, 2021.

I’ve been tasked with moving OpenWebBeans's website away from the Apache CMS.
I will migrate your website to a Pelican build with GitHub Flavored Markdown 
(GFM).
For your reference the already migrated www-site is here 
https://github.com/apache/www-site/

The following will occur.
- flex-site git repository is already a mirror of the CMS content. We’ll create 
a main branch.
- CMS mdtext and Cmspage files are converted to md and stored in the content 
tree.
- Page templates will be converted essentially as is with some minor 
improvements.
- HTML files (apidocs) built separately are copied into the content tree. 

The Apache CMS had a cumbersome process of individual checkouts -> staging -> 
publishing.
The new branching strategy is as follows:
- main will have the site content sources and any additional docs (like api 
docs).
- asf-site will have the production website which is automatically deployed to 
flex.apache.org.
During the migration we will deploy to flex.staged.apache.org
- preview/release will have the website prepared for the next release. You will 
add release specific docs to this branch
- preview/release-staging will have the built preview website which is 
automatically deployed to flex-release.staged.apache.org

This new plan allows for a redesign of your site without danger of premature 
deployment.
If you decide that GFM is not for flex then you can switch to a different 
process within a preview branch.

Release steps for the website could be:
- Branch main as preview/release
- Make your updates to preview/release
- Confirm your changes on flex-release.staged.apache.org
- Pull your changes from preview/release to main. flex.apache.org is 
automatically updated.

All The Best,
Dave Fisher

Re: Board report time !

[Dave Fisher]

(1) Board reports are still being submitted.
(2) It is good to discuss the report on the mailing list. Dev@ is fine, but 
private@ should always be used if there is a private message to the board.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2018, at 9:01 AM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> Sounds reasonable, but I'm pretty sure the deadline was yesterday.  The 
> meeting is a week from now and we're supposed to have the report filed a week 
> in front.
> 
> HTH,
> -Alex
> 
> On 6/14/18, 1:34 AM, "Tom Chiverton"  wrote:
> 
>On the deadline ( a week from now ) I copy and paste from the Wiki to 
>the Apache reporting tools.
>Apache also remind me to do this, so it's difficult to miss.
> 
>I don't see a need to copy this to the mailing lists, because it's 
>available on the public wiki anyway.
>If we did want to communicate the final version, why would this need to 
>be sent to private@ rather than dev@ or user@ ?
> 
>Tom
> 
> 
>>On 13/06/18 17:20, Piotr Zarzycki wrote:
>> Hi Tom,
>> 
>> Are you sending directly to the board that report?
>> 
>> Could you include also private list? I don't follow board list in general
>> and would love to know that report was sent.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Piotr
>> 
>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 8:07 AM Piotr Zarzycki 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Tom,
>>> 
>>> I did update dates of release latest installer.
>>> 
>>> In the Activity section I propose to write that we are active around bug
>>> fixing, especially in the installer. We would like to continue to provide
>>> smooth download experience in case of Flex. We are providing constant help
>>> to the users on the list.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Piotr
>>> 
>>> 
>>> wt., 29 maj 2018 o 20:58 Tom Chiverton  napisał(a):
>>> 
 Iin the next few weeks we have to give one of our periodic updates to the
 Apache board on what we've been up to.
 
 Please take a look at
 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcwiki.apache.org%2Fconfluence%2Fdisplay%2FFLEX%2FJune=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3b690f7b5ae8484260a908d5d1d1a248%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636645620669918695=eNwhc1GLu6WUCEHVYBgIOCJka0az%2BDiL5mfBJabOshI%3D=0
 
 And (start !) adding things that have changed since last quarter - I've
 put
 some basic sub titles in already.
 --
 Tom
 Apache Flex
 
 
 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>> 
>>> Patreon: 
>>> *https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3b690f7b5ae8484260a908d5d1d1a248%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636645620669918695=kWp%2Bf12weT6qHP%2BqxCeTM0jntyJikM1OWAPWhEL%2BiCo%3D=0
>>> *
>>> 
>> __
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>> For more information please visit 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.symanteccloud.com=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3b690f7b5ae8484260a908d5d1d1a248%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C636645620669918695=he9fQgpRn0SIkBdhVPLU8CwdhdxoPi3OEgv9X7DC%2B4I%3D=0
>> __
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Discuss] Apache Flex SDK Installer 3.3.1 RC2*

[Dave Fisher]

Great. It no way was I saying that we should have delayed anything while 
ironing out these details.

Regards,
Dave

> On Apr 20, 2018, at 11:57 AM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> FWIW, I confirmed with the author that this code is Adobe-owned.  Consider it 
> "donated".
> 
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> 
> On 4/20/18, 8:36 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki"  wrote:
> 
>   When I will be next time RM in Flex or Royale project and license issue
>   occur I'm not going to wait for answer, but immediately raise Legal jira.
>   Right now it is a waste of our time to make an attention to something which
>   seems to do not going to bring us any problems with law.
> 
>   Does that make sense ?
> 
>   2018-04-20 17:20 GMT+02:00 Alex Harui :
> 
>> You are going to make up copyright law by having an "or" in the copyright
>> statement and somehow think that makes things better?
>> 
>> The release has the ASF header for this file.  I believe Adobe owns this
>> code.   I believe have the right to donate this code on behalf of Adobe.
>> The release is therefore correct.  Does anybody else disagree?  I don't
>> think your changes of adding an "or" are conformant to copyright law
>> anywhere.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 4/20/18, 12:00 AM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:
>> 
>>   Hi,
>> 
>>> IMO, we'd be better off having these files donated to Apache so the
>> header
>>> does not need to change.  There is no need to keep it as third-party
>> since
>>> the original author hasn't touched it in years.  I'm pretty sure it
>> is ok
>>> for me to just say it is owned by Adobe and thus donated.   We've
>> done
>>> this in the past without a whole SGA.  It is just a couple of files.
>> 
>>   I’ve changed the headers IMO it better to comply with ASF legal policy
>> than not to. If you want retroactively get them donated I believe you would
>> need to confirm that Adobe does own the copyright and check on legal
>> discuss if that’s OK. I’ll change the headers back to ASF ones for you if
>> they need to be.
>> 
>>   I put the copyright as "Copyright 2011 Piotr Walczyszyn or Adobe” as
>> although he was working for Adobe at the time this was his personal blog
>> and I don’t know the what the terms of his contact with Adobe was or how
>> employee/employer copyright ownership works under Polish copyright law. (He
>> was based in Poland according to his blog.)
>> 
>>   Re "There is no need to keep it as third-party since the original
>> author hasn't touched it in years.” I think you find that copyright lasts a
>> little longer than that :-) I’ve no idea what it is in Poland but here (and
>> the US) it’s life of the author + 70 years.
>> 
>>   Thanks,
>>   Justin
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>   --
> 
>   Piotr Zarzycki
> 
>   Patreon: 
> *https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C8addf80cbb874dad350008d5a6d476b5%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636598353810889864=xtr3InvAhOKjB9cz3HJWjey54eEWJFxtGX15oNv2pnI%3D=0
>   
> *
> 
> 



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Re: [Discuss] Apache Flex SDK Installer 3.3.1 RC2*

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

Please update the header for these files.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 19, 2018, at 8:40 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You don’t need to assert copyright it exists the moment something is created. 
> In this case copyright is with someone (the author or perhaps Adobe) not us 
> but that’s OK as it Apache licensed.
> 
> If a file is developed at the ASF it has the standard ASF header [1] but if 
> it’s a 3rd party work it clearly states “3. Do not add the standard Apache 
> License header to the top of third-party source files.” [2] Which is exactly 
> what has happened here. Is everyone OK that we are not following ASF legal 
> policy? Especially considering it's easy to fix?
> 
> The ASF header states "Licensed to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) under 
> one or more contributor license agreements.” Is this true for those files?
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#headers
> 2. https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#3party
> 

Re: [Discuss] Apache Flex SDK Installer 3.3.1 RC2*

[Dave Fisher]

Yup,

Given that it has been this way for nearly 6 years … and it is only a few 
source files … and we can argue it is AL2 … then the only consideration would 
be the author asserting his copyright … which it looks like he never put on his 
code even though it is implicit.

If Justin wants to contact him directly then he is free to do so …

Regards,
Dave


> On Apr 19, 2018, at 11:46 AM, OmPrakash Muppirala  
> wrote:
> 
> Alex, Justin,
> 
> Before you go any further into this discussion, please remember that
> technically we don't even need to release the source for this.  No one is
> going to download the source artifacts for the Installer.
> 
> The Installer is a convenience application we provide to our users so that
> they can easily download and assemble the SDK.
> 
> Please keep the big picture in the mind before starting another licensing
> discussion.  This list is very big and we don't want to waste the time with
> inconsequential discussions.
> 
> Thanks,
> Om
> 
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 10:49 AM, Alex Harui 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Justin,
>> 
>> I've asked Adobe Legal similar questions in the past.  Adobe Legal will
>> say it is fine because it is related to Flex and was already out there
>> with a open source license, and even better, an Apache license.  It would
>> be bit trickier if it wasn't already ALv2, and much harder/impossible if
>> it didn't already have an OS license.  I suppose I could go bug some
>> higher up to nod in agreement, but they have every time so far.  Maybe if
>> someone files a suit against Apache I'll go do that.
>> 
>> Adobe is happy to share code.  I'm happy to share code.  I'm sorry you are
>> not happy and feel you must attack me for pointing out an error in your
>> assessment of the situation.  I just want our users to be able to safely
>> use our code and install Flex with fewer problems.
>> 
>> -Alex
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/19/18, 2:47 AM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> So Alex as an Adobe employee you're happy that someone took Adobe
>>> licensed code (assuming that is the case) that wasn’t part of a grant to
>>> the ASF and added it to the code base with ASF headers? What do you think
>>> Adobe legal might say about this? No need to ask them I just asking you
>>> think what they might say. I’m guessing they may have a small issue with
>>> that.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Justin
>> 
>> 



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Re: [Discuss] Apache Flex SDK Installer 3.3.1 RC2*

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Alex,

The license is AL2 on Google Code.
https://code.google.com/archive/p/nativeapplicationupdater/ 


On Github - no licenses and no headers:
https://github.com/google-code-export/nativeapplicationupdater 

https://github.com/search?q=NativeApplicationUpdater+=Repositories 


Original programmer has not touched this in 7 years.

Om?

Regards,
Dave

> On Apr 19, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> Hi Justin,
> 
> I've asked Adobe Legal similar questions in the past.  Adobe Legal will
> say it is fine because it is related to Flex and was already out there
> with a open source license, and even better, an Apache license.  It would
> be bit trickier if it wasn't already ALv2, and much harder/impossible if
> it didn't already have an OS license.  I suppose I could go bug some
> higher up to nod in agreement, but they have every time so far.  Maybe if
> someone files a suit against Apache I'll go do that.
> 
> Adobe is happy to share code.  I'm happy to share code.  I'm sorry you are
> not happy and feel you must attack me for pointing out an error in your
> assessment of the situation.  I just want our users to be able to safely
> use our code and install Flex with fewer problems.
> 
> -Alex
> 
> 
> On 4/19/18, 2:47 AM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> So Alex as an Adobe employee you're happy that someone took Adobe
>> licensed code (assuming that is the case) that wasn’t part of a grant to
>> the ASF and added it to the code base with ASF headers? What do you think
>> Adobe legal might say about this? No need to ask them I just asking you
>> think what they might say. I’m guessing they may have a small issue with
>> that.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
> 



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Re: [FLEXJS] New Royale Repos available

[Dave Fisher]

The Royale PMC members ought to subscribe to Private right away. I'm not babble 
dependent and will subscribe to all shortly.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> The mailing lists appear to be set up, but we may want to get Nabble
> hooked up to them before moving lots of conversations over there.
> 
> -Alex
> 
>> On 9/27/17, 9:28 AM, "Erik de Bruin"  wrote:
>> 
>> How about the mailing lists?
>> 
>> EdB
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Alex Harui 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Folks,
>>> 
>>> Looks like the new Royale repos have been created, so I think we need to
>>> switch over to those repos and not make more commits to flex-asjs,
>>> flex-typedefs, and flex-falcon.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Alex
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ix Multimedia Software
>> 
>> Jan Luykenstraat 27
>> 3521 VB Utrecht
>> 
>> T. 06-51952295
>> I. 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.ixsoftware.nl=
>> 02%7C01%7C%7Cabfb660f084b45a4923d08d505c4dbf1%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178
>> decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636421265414260902=0tgOy8fgAKrVdHJTpsLvPKFFYBLP%2Br
>> 0Ts7OMlLKtfW4%3D=0
> 

Re: Royale Logo

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

It is not a requirement. I was curious. Having it might help the brand. 
Certainly the website design will need Apache branding. (Not all project are 
fully in compliance with brand policy, but we try.)

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 8:02 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> Is having "Apache" in the logo a requirement?  I'm not convinced every
> other Apache project is doing that (or incorporating the feather either).
> 
> We do need the "TM" in the logo though.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> 
>> On 9/24/17, 2:35 PM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> It's pretty cool. I like the path overlays - it made me think of the
>> Olympic logo. 
>> 
>> Since the project is Apache Royale how would the word Apache be
>> incorporated as a logotype?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 24, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Carlos Rovira <carlosrov...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I've been working this week end on a logo for Royale and want to share
>>> my
>>> work in progress. Please try the following link:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Froyale.co
>>> deoscopic.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2Froyale_logo.png=0
>>> 2%7C01%7C%7C9cebac683de74cee43df08d503947ede%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178
>>> decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636418858678387243=HjM%2B%2BE%2FzW7rRhf7FQ%2Fa%2Bx
>>> kgVs9ds8iHLrlbMAGEc%2Fug%3D=0
>>> 
>>> The concept is a modern icon logo build with simplicity in mind and with
>>> lines and circles that could have multiple uses (black over white, white
>>> over black, colored, outlined, special finish...). The example only
>>> shows
>>> some work at the current state. In need more work to be finished.
>>> 
>>> The logo has various meanings. It's a crown to give the user the main
>>> concept of Royale, something magnificent, superb, best in its
>>> class...but
>>> as well tries to give you some key points of the main composition
>>> architecture in Royale, the Strand-Beads concept with a base line (the
>>> strand) that conects circles (beads). So my intention is give the
>>> possibility of various meanings in one logo while try to keep it simple.
>>> 
>>> The fonts used are "Aclonica" google fonts.
>>> 
>>> The last example is not finished (gradients are not perfectly done yet
>>> and
>>> other things needs more polish) and is only a possible finish but it's
>>> really to show how could it be, but I'm sure I'll be redoing it from
>>> scratch, but I must left it for today.
>>> 
>>> Although it's still a work in progress I think is worth i

Re: Royale Logo

[Dave Fisher]

It's pretty cool. I like the path overlays - it made me think of the Olympic 
logo. 

Since the project is Apache Royale how would the word Apache be incorporated as 
a logotype?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Carlos Rovira  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've been working this week end on a logo for Royale and want to share my
> work in progress. Please try the following link:
> 
> http://royale.codeoscopic.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/royale_logo.png
> 
> The concept is a modern icon logo build with simplicity in mind and with
> lines and circles that could have multiple uses (black over white, white
> over black, colored, outlined, special finish...). The example only shows
> some work at the current state. In need more work to be finished.
> 
> The logo has various meanings. It's a crown to give the user the main
> concept of Royale, something magnificent, superb, best in its class...but
> as well tries to give you some key points of the main composition
> architecture in Royale, the Strand-Beads concept with a base line (the
> strand) that conects circles (beads). So my intention is give the
> possibility of various meanings in one logo while try to keep it simple.
> 
> The fonts used are "Aclonica" google fonts.
> 
> The last example is not finished (gradients are not perfectly done yet and
> other things needs more polish) and is only a possible finish but it's
> really to show how could it be, but I'm sure I'll be redoing it from
> scratch, but I must left it for today.
> 
> Although it's still a work in progress I think is worth it to share it with
> the community and see reactions and if you think if it will be a good logo
> or try another concept.
> 
> So please share your thoughts!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira

Re: Royale website and domain registration

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

It would be more likely to work if the Domain were purchased and then donated 
to the ASF with sufficient funds to renew it for N years.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 7:51 PM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> Initial response from trademarks was not encouraging.  Is it possible for
> Erik to "own" the domain and redirect it to Carlos's server?  That might
> satisfy Trademarks that we could rescind Carlos's use of that domain if
> Carlos stopped conforming to trademark policy.  Apparently there have been
> problems like that for other projects.
> 
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
> 
>> On 9/22/17, 3:04 PM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
>> 
>> I will verify with Trademarks@.  At the worst it will have to redirect to
>> royale.apache.org, so I don't think you have to wait.  It would be nice to
>> have that domain no matter what.
>> 
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 9/22/17, 2:57 PM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sep 22, 2017 2:22 PM, "Erik de Bruin"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> How about I grab 'royalesdk.org' and we take it from there?
>>> 
>>> EdB
>>> 
>>> 
>>> +1
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Alex Harui 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Carlos,
 
 I agree that is a game we should not play.  Even if we can get the
 domain
 for $200, I still don't like putting money in the hands of the
 squatters.
 It would not surprise me if they then went out and registered a bunch
 of
 similar domains and tried to hit us up for those as well.
 
 I doubt Apache Trademarks would allow a third party to use
 apacheroyale..  We might want to grab that domain, but it would
 probably have to point directly to royale.a.o.
 
 I don't think royale.as is taken, the registration fee is just higher.
 And again, we can grab more than one domain.  I would like us to settle
 on
 at least one so we can make sure Apache Trademarks will ok having a
 third-party use that domain.  It is going to be an exception to the
 rule.
 
 IMO, we should not use .com.  We might want to grab it and point to
 something else, but our main pages should reflect that we are
 non-profit.
 
 My 2 cents,
 -Alex
 
 On 9/22/17, 10:23 AM, "carlos.rov...@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos
 Rovira"
 
 wrote:
 
> I think Om's offer is very generous, but for what Alex said, we could
 end
> paying 3 or 4 times 100$ plus the real parking. For me that seems a
 game
> we
> should not play...
> 
> I think the more easy and best option right now is "royale.web" or
 ".app"
> (if .as is taken, that is what it seems right?).
> 
> We should exhaust the "royale." options before enter composed
> options.
> For composed names, I think people would end trying first
> "apacheroyale.com"
> (or.org, or .io, or whatever) that are all available before
 considering
> adding "sdk" or "framework" for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 2017-09-22 19:10 GMT+02:00 Andrew Wetmore :
> 
>> Check for RoyaleSDK, with the "e"
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Kessler CTR Mark J <
>> mark.kessler@usmc.mil> wrote:
>> 
>>> RoyalSDK sounds good.  [1] can even get a .Com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [1]
 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdomai
>> n
>> s
 .
>> google.com%2Fregistrar%3Fs%3Droyalsdk%26hl%3Den=02%
 7C01%7C%7C0702061
>> 75b3e4fda913f08d501dec329%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
 cee1%7C0%7C0%7C63
>> 6416978626290869=ZQF2DIgIJyrixp4i2u5k%
 2F3ynhGB1JQHd753Wwa0Hy8s%3D
>> eserved=0
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aha...@adobe.com.INVALID]
>>> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:36 AM
>>> To: dev@flex.apache.org
>>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Royale website and domain
 registration
>>> 
>>> AIUI, royale.io is owned by a squatter and the price STARTS at
 $199.
>> I
>>> haven't tried to buy a domain from a squatter, but I wouldn't be
>> surprised
>>> if the price suddenly goes up.  And then beyond that, I think you
 may
>> have
>>> to still pay some other place to register the domain.
>>> 
>>> Yes, royale.as can be associated with "royal pain in the ass" but
 the
>> "as"
>>> was good enough for spoon.as back in the day.
>>> 
>>> Royale.web would be fine with me.  And we could grab other TLDs
 too,
>> we
>>> don't have to choose one.
>>> 
>>> My question is, is it worth it?  Is royale.io going to pay off in
 some
>> way
>>> $100 better than royale.as which 

Re: Royale is now an Apache Project

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I am mentoring the Pulsar podling which is using Gitbox and a git wiki. They 
came to Apache with an existing github project. They gave Infra admin rights 
and then they simply moved over.

For Git we will need to associate our Apache ids to our Github ids at 
id.apache.org.

We need to request Git box from Infra as it is in a limited case by case basis 
since it is still new.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> OK, I have asked for
>   royale-asjs
>   royale-tourjs
>   royale-typedefs
>   royale-compiler
> 
> I will request Git website instead of SVN.
> 
> I will not request a wiki at this time.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/21/17, 9:26 AM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>  wrote:
> 
>> Github has a wiki feature.  Although I haven't seen any other Apache
>> project use it.
>> 
>> I hope we can use it as part of the Gitbox workflow.
>> 
>> The good thing is that this would make it easier for anyone to add stuff
>> onto the wiki without having deal with confluence, karma etc.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2017 9:10 AM, "Peter Ent"  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 1) royale-asjs just so we can expand later if needed. I like
>>> royale-compiler.
>>> 2) Let's get off of SVN!
>>> ‹peter
>>> 
 On 9/21/17, 11:42 AM, "Alex Harui"  wrote:
 
 We have to decide a few more things for setup:
 
 1) our current repos are named flex-asjs, flex-typedefs, etc.  I
>>> assume we
 want them renamed to royale-asjs, royale-typedefs, royale-tourjs,
 royale-falcon?
 
 Or do we want to change the "last names" as well?
 
 royale-framework, royale-typedefs, royale-tourjs, royale-compiler
 
 2) The flex.apache.org website is still on SVN.  Do we want to use Git
>>> for
 Royale?  I think yes.
 
 3) Do we want a Confluence Wiki or are there wiki-equivalents in
>>> GitHub?
 
 -Alex
 
 On 9/21/17, 2:27 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki" 
>>> wrote:
 
> Let's wait for their response.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017, 11:17 Alex Harui 
>>> wrote:
> 
>> In the sub task I asked if we "must" use JIRA or can use GH Issues.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 9/21/17, 2:14 AM, "Erik de Bruin"  wrote:
>> 
 
 Maybe we should have discussion whether we need Jira for new
>> project?
 Maybe we should use Github only?
 
>>> 
>>> That sound like a plan. KISS [1] all the way ;-)
>>> 
>>> EdB
>>> 
>>> 1:
>>> 
>> 
>> https://

Re: [DISCUSS] Building the brand for Royale

[Dave Fisher]

Hi,

One thing we could do with an external Wordpress is have tooling which captures 
posts and checks these into git.

We can probably do it with a WP addin. I've used a variation of this approach 
to provide content to an iOS app.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> Wordpress on apache infrastructure would require following every Wordpress 
> release which can be more frequently than monthly. The PMC would need to 
> provide the manpower to do this. We would also need to be careful about 
> plugins which can also have security issues.
> 
> I say if we can eat our Royale then that would be best. If we go with Git it 
> can be there and then we can refer to it from the official ask site and/or 
> merge the two under standard ASF CMS.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Sep 20, 2017, at 1:36 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala <bigosma...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I would stay away from WordPress just because of all the security issues
>> and maintenance required.
>> 
>> Github pages should be a better place.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>> 
>>> On Sep 20, 2017 10:26 AM, "Alex Harui" <aha...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hmm.
>>> 
>>> I think if we grab a domain and donate it to the ASF, that it can't be
>>> hosted on non-ASF hardware.  That would need to be verified.
>>> Maybe it would be better for the Royale PMC to approve Royale.xx as a
>>> third-party domain under Carlos's control.  I think that's allowed.  The
>>> policy [1] says that "in general" it is NOT allowed, but "in general"
>>> implies it isn't a hard and fast rule.
>>> 
>>> IMO, things under the PMC's control have certain obligations.  It has to
>>> be sustainable by "anyone".  How many folks know how to edit WordPress
>>> themes?  I don't.  I always choose one of their default themes.  It might
>>> have to be hosted or host-able by Apache Infra, and I don't know if they
>>> are ok with WordPress.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I want to be able to stick FlexJS apps in our web presence.
>>> Honestly, I'd actually like to see our entire web presence be built in
>>> FlexJS.  It would truly be "eating our own dog food".  Yes, I know that
>>> mostly static pages aren't a great match for FlexJS/Royale, but in the
>>> end, shouldn't all of our web presence be dynamic?
>>> 
>>> My 2 cents,
>>> -Alex
>>> 
>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/domains.html
>>> 
>>> On 9/20/17, 10:02 AM, "carlos.rov...@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos Rovira"
>>> <carlos.rov...@gmail.com on behalf of carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>> 
>>>> that's my bet. To make a good website I proposed to make it in Wordpress
>>>> since is what I have some expertise in that field (If I'm the person in
>>>> charge to make it happen). All the team can as well have an account in the
>>>> WP dash board to be able to post and share content in a easy way.
>>>> 
>>>> WP will gave as the landing and some pages that would be useful for
>>>> convenience. But I think, as well, to link directly to the resources in
>>>> the
>>>> apache infrastructure in the main menu of the site just as we do now
>>>> (code,
>>>> GitHub, wiki, links to our mailing lists, releases, binaries, and so on)
>>>> 
>>>> For domain registration I'd prefer .io since is very popular today, but
>>>> .as
>>>> seems ok for me as well.
>>>> I think Erik proposed to register the domain for us, so I think is ok for
>>>> me that he makes the registration. Maybe we could do it as soon as the
>>>> board approve the new TLP and name.
>>>> 
>>>> I can host the site in CO servers with the rest of our websites, to
>>>> support
>>>> as well this change and initiative. Again I'll be waiting for board
>>>> approval to start working. I'm assuming here that you guys trust me to
>>>> make
>>>> this website and branding work, of course.
>>>> 
>>>> So maybe we could make a thread to select from Royale.io and Royale.as,
>>>> and
>>>> of course if price for .io is very high we could go with .as if it's more
>>>> low.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>

Re: [RESULT][VOTE] What should be the new Project Name for Proposed fork of FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I cannot find it either. We need to remove his vote. That does not change the 
winner and only swaps the 3r and 4th place.

Regards,
Dave


> On Sep 20, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Dave for posting the summary.
> 
> I cannot find record of Tom's vote in my email or on lists.a.o.  It is 
> bugging me because that means I wasn't sending out the right totals 
> yesterday.  And we should record here where to find his vote in the archives. 
>  What day did he send it?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> 
> From: Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net<mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net>>
> Reply-To: "dev@flex.apache.org<mailto:dev@flex.apache.org>" 
> <dev@flex.apache.org<mailto:dev@flex.apache.org>>
> Date: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 8:45 AM
> To: "dev@flex.apache.org<mailto:dev@flex.apache.org>" 
> <dev@flex.apache.org<mailto:dev@flex.apache.org>>
> Subject: Re: [RESULT][VOTE] What should be the new Project Name for Proposed 
> fork of FlexJS?
> 
> Here is my summary from the google doc with additional Excel analysis:
> 
> NAME:   Piotr   ErikCarlos  Chris   Harbs   Yishay  Peter   DaveOm
>   OlafMarkJeffry  AlexJustin  Tom Sum Count
> Royale  1   3   2   3   1 
>   2   3   1   16  8
> Bead (Beads)2   2 
>   1   3   2   3   2   15  7
> Braid   2   1   2   3 
>   1   2   3   14  7
> Limber (Limbr)  3   3   3 
>   2   1   1   13  6
> Arise   3   1   2 
>   3   9   4
> Boja2   1 
>   3   2   8   4
> Bend3 
>   3   1
> Crown   2 
>   2   1
> Strand
>   1   1   1
> Action  1 
>   1   1
> Total   6   6   5   6   6   6   5   6   0 
>   6   6   6   6   6   6   82  15
> Not voted   0   0   1   0   0   0   1   0 
>   6   0   0   0   0   0   0   8
> 
> 
> On Sep 20, 2017, at 9:18 AM, piotrz 
> <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com<mailto:piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> As for you question. I'm not sure who was missed, but as you can see in the
> spreadsheet I did mistake, cause Royale has less votes.
> 
> If you will see anything more let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Piotr
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Apache Flex PMC
> piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com<mailto:piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-development.247.n4.nabble.com/
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Building the brand for Royale

[Dave Fisher]

nd thus GitHub will be
>>>> our
>>>> hub of activity.  And I think we should use GitHub pages and build a
>>>> solid
>>>> web presence there, again within Apache's rules.
>>>> 
>>>> Royale.io is for sale.  We could ask what the price is.
>>>> Royale.as appears to be unregistered.
>>>> 
>>>> My 2 cents,
>>>> -Alex
>>>> 
>>>> On 9/20/17, 8:31 AM, "carlos.rov...@gmail.com on behalf of Carlos
>>>> Rovira"
>>>> <carlos.rov...@gmail.com on behalf of carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> as Alex and Dave said, we should wait for board approval.
>>>>> 
>>>>> @Harbs, I was using "xxx" to refer to "whatever domain extension out
>>>> there
>>>>> that would fit for us" ;)
>>>>> 
>>>>> @Dave, I understand that we should use the apache domain for the
>>>> service
>>>>> apache provide (i.e: store code, mailing list, releases...), but as
>>>> many
>>>>> other projects out there, I suppose we should as well have an external
>>>>> tools or domains that serve our purpose. In the same way we have  some
>>>>> external servers or tools actually.
>>>>> For example, we could have a cool name domain that points to a website
>>>> and
>>>>> there refer to the apache resources. If that option should go against
>>>>> apache rules, that would be strange for me, and would certainly be
>>>>> hopeless
>>>>> to work in and organization with such limitations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2017-09-20 16:44 GMT+02:00 Tomislav Pokrajcic <tomis...@svemir.net>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Guys, congrats for selecting the new project name.
>>>>>> Still not sure how Royale resonates with me, but like it much more
>>>> than
>>>>>> the 1st runner up.
>>>>>> Non English speakers would pretty often confuse beads with beds and
>>>> job
>>>>>> ads might sound strange.
>>>>>> Just imagine:
>>>>>> "Looking for an amazing Beads expert to join our team."
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 20.9.2017. 15:45, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As an Apache project the domain would be:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Royale.apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can write a long discussion about policy later but there are
>>>> reasons,
>>>>>>> requirements, approvals around use of other domains.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I know everyone is enthusiastic but let's get approved by the board
>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 20, 2017, at 6:33 AM, Erik de Bruin <e...@ixsoftware.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> * Domain: We must find a good and simple domain for Royale. I think
>>>> if
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> can find something short like "royale.XXX" would be great over
>>>>>>>>> "apacheroyale.XXX".
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> .com, .org, .net, .io etc. all seem to be either in use or
>>>> squatted
>>>>>>>> upon.
>>>>>>>> Am I forgetting memorable TLP extensions? I assume we don't want
>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>> like 'royale.foundation' or any fancy extensions like that, right?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Are we considering extended names, like 'royaleframework' as well?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I can register anything we decide and sponsor until a foundation
>>>> takes
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> and then transfer the domain.
>

Re: [RESULT][VOTE] What should be the new Project Name for Proposed fork of FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Here is my summary from the google doc with additional Excel analysis:

NAME:   Piotr   ErikCarlos  Chris   Harbs   Yishay  Peter   DaveOm  
OlafMarkJeffry  AlexJustin  Tom Sum Count
Royale  1   3   2   3   1   
2   3   1   16  8
Bead (Beads)2   2   
1   3   2   3   2   15  7
Braid   2   1   2   3   
1   2   3   14  7
Limber (Limbr)  3   3   3   
2   1   1   13  6
Arise   3   1   2   
3   9   4
Boja2   1   
3   2   8   4
Bend3   
3   1
Crown   2   
2   1
Strand  
1   1   1
Action  1   
1   1
Total   6   6   5   6   6   6   5   6   0   
6   6   6   6   6   6   82  15
Not voted   0   0   1   0   0   0   1   0   
6   0   0   0   0   0   0   8


> On Sep 20, 2017, at 9:18 AM, piotrz  wrote:
> 
> As for you question. I'm not sure who was missed, but as you can see in the
> spreadsheet I did mistake, cause Royale has less votes.
> 
> If you will see anything more let me know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Piotr
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Apache Flex PMC
> piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-development.247.n4.nabble.com/



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Re: [RESULT][VOTE] What should be the new Project Name for Proposed fork of FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

Vote now looks proper to me from the tallies.

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 8:22 AM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> Spreadsheet with VOTES. Royale has a two points less, but still this is our 
>> choose [1].
>> 
>> [1]
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kOvPBUgkxcdIksEWOgKhzipy5EPR0eDz8JrlB2aDTCo/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> 
> So looks like there's 14 voters their not 13? Was Tom missed in the first 
> count?
> 
> The total votes (14*6 == 84) still doesn’t tally with the total votes in that 
> spreadsheet i.e. 82 with 3 people only placing 2 votes it still seems off by 
> one? Given the top 4 choices are separated by 1 vote in that spreadsheet that 
> may be important and change the result.

Om abstained which means 6 points missed from the total of 90 possible with 15 
ballots.
Adding the two who did not have a third pace gives 8 missing points and 
therefore 82 points is the correct overall total.

Royale it is in a squeaker.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thanks,
> Justin



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Re: [DISCUSS] Building the brand for Royale

[Dave Fisher]

As an Apache project the domain would be:

Royale.apache.org

I can write a long discussion about policy later but there are reasons, 
requirements, approvals around use of other domains.

I know everyone is enthusiastic but let's get approved by the board first.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2017, at 6:33 AM, Erik de Bruin  wrote:

>> 
>> * Domain: We must find a good and simple domain for Royale. I think if we
>> can find something short like "royale.XXX" would be great over
>> "apacheroyale.XXX".
>> 
> 
> .com, .org, .net, .io etc. all seem to be either in use or squatted upon.
> Am I forgetting memorable TLP extensions? I assume we don't want anything
> like 'royale.foundation' or any fancy extensions like that, right?
> 
> Are we considering extended names, like 'royaleframework' as well?
> 
> I can register anything we decide and sponsor until a foundation takes over
> and then transfer the domain.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> EdB
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ix Multimedia Software
> 
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
> 
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl

Re: [DISCUSS] What should be the new Project Name for Proposed fork of FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

I’m in Apple Mail on both iOS and MacOS

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 2:13 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala <bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> Erik,
>> 
>> You should do this on the VOTE thread.
>> 
> 
> This is the VOTE thread.  At least that is what my gmail thinks it is...
> 
> Thanks,
> Om
> 
> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Erik de Bruin <e...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm changing my vote to:
>>> 
>>> 1) Limb(e)r
>>> 2) Bead(s)
>>> 3) Braid
>>> 
>>> Sorry for any confusion.
>>> 
>>> EdB
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> What a dilemma!
>>>> 
>>>> I've seen 10 votes and 2 abstentions.  I haven't voted yet.  I wanted to
>>>> see what the trend was first.
>>>> 
>>>> If you assign 3 points to first place, 2 to second, and 1 to third,
>> Royale
>>>> has the lead at 12 points, but barely:  Bead, Boja and Limber have 10.
>>>> Boja has been mentioned more than any other name (6 times), but 3 of
>> those
>>>> are third place votes.  Royale and Limber have been mentioned 5 times,
>>>> Beads 4 times.  Beads has the most first place votes (3).  Royale,
>> Limber
>>>> have 2 first place votes each.
>>>> 
>>>> In short, I don't think there is a clear winner.  It will depend on how
>>>> you count the votes.  And we can't default back to FlexJS either given
>> the
>>>> other vote.
>>>> 
>>>> I know some folks mentioned that Royale is associated with low-quality
>>>> foods, but does anybody think choosing Royale will be a major hindrance?
>>>> There is a possible conflict because some other Github project is
>> already
>>>> using Royale [1] for a JS framework.  Does anybody see that as a show
>>>> stopper?  I think I will write to trademarks@ and try to get their
>>>> opinion.
>>>> 
>>>> Carlos, will you help with a new website regardless of which name is
>>>> chosen or only if it is Royale (or Crown)?
>>>> 
>>>> Is anybody adamantly against Beads, Boja or Limber?  After reading this
>>>> mornings posts, I'm leaning away from limber.  The spell checker
>> redirect
>>>> issue is worrisome.
>>>> 
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> -Alex
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://github.com/ian-culleton/royale
>>>> 
>>>> On 9/18/17, 10:48 AM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash
>> Muppirala"
>>>> <omup...@gmail.com on behalf of bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Abstain (binding)
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 18, 2017 10:47 AM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am abstaining for now.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 17, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
>>>>>> <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In this thread I've gathered list of names proposition for fork of
>>>>>> FlexJS
>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> LIST:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Royale
>>>>>>> Boja
>>>>>>> Strand
>>>>>>> Bead
>>>>>>> Limber
>>>>>>> Boinga
>>>>>>> Braid
>>>>>>> Arise
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> HOW DO WE VOTE:
>>>>>>> 1) Pick up 3 names from the list and order them from the most
>> favorite
>>>>>>> 2) We will give points for each items in the list which you have
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>>> 3) In your list you can propose your own name - others can follow it
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> their lists
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> EXAMPLE:
>>>>>>> 1) Name1 - 3 points
>>>>>>> 2) Name2 - 2 points
>>>>>>> 3) Name3 - 1 point
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> WINNER:
>>>>>>> We will pickup winner based on gathered points by one of the name.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The vote will be open until Tuesday September 19, 23:00 UTC
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Piotr
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Ix Multimedia Software
>>> 
>>> Jan Luykenstraat 27
>>> 3521 VB Utrecht
>>> 
>>> T. 06-51952295
>>> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I don’t see that as being in the same space. I don’t think people will be 
confused.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 2:43 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I checked Braid on github and found [1]. It was quite popular - can we just
> grab that name - I still do not understand fully those trademarks
> implications.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/cristibalan/braid
> 
> 2017-09-19 20:38 GMT+02:00 Kessler CTR Mark J <mark.kessler@usmc.mil>:
> 
>> Apache Bob...
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.li...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 2:20 PM
>> To: dev@flex.apache.org
>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>> 
>> Ick…
>> 
>> Why do these things have to be so complicated? ;-)
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> There are any number of meanings for boja in many languages with and
>> without diacritics.
>>> 
>>> https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/boja
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Andrew Wetmore <cottag...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I can think of three ways* to pronounce "bo-ja" without even resorting
>> to a
>>>> South African "click" language. This makes it a challenge to refer to
>> the
>>>> product to anyone who does not already use it.
>>>> 
>>>> *bodja, booya, boha.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <
>> piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Om,
>>>>> 
>>>>> No offend :) That is why it is so hard to choose ;) I think "bo-ja" is
>> the
>>>>> closes to how I pronounce it. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Piotr
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2017-09-19 19:31 GMT+02:00 OmPrakash Muppirala <bigosma...@gmail.com>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Boja is one name I really dislike.  Sorry Piotr
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Also I dont know how to pronounce it. Is it Bo-ha, or boo-ha or bo-ja,
>>>>> etc?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2017 10:09 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Reading Alex in VOTE thread and how many times we are mentioning Boja
>>>>> - I
>>>>>>> will change my VOTE. Limbr is a bit dangerous having Dave's finding.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Piotr
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2017-09-19 18:41 GMT+02:00 Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> FWIW, I think Limbr is another good spelling.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 7:34 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We don't have time for another vote thread.  We need to close down
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> vote tonight or early tomorrow morning.  So, if you are ok with
>>>>>> Limber
>>>>>>>>> (still not clear it will win, please state objections to using
>>>>> Limbyr
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> the spelling.  It is true a unique spelling stand out from search
>>>>>>>> results,
>>>>>>>>> but first, you have to remember how to spell it, and my spell
>>>>> checker
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> constantly changing.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -Alex
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 9/19/17, 5:05 AM, "Kessler CTR Mark J" <
>>>>> mark.kessler@usmc.mil
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If limber wins, a simple discussion thread should resolve letter
>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>> to the name.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -Mark K
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>>> From: Piotr Zarzycki [mailto:piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:52 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@flex.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> It has advantage of having the name which do not exist on github.
>>>>>> Let
>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>> that Limber with win in the voting - We probably have to open
>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> VOTE
>>>>>>>>>> to have "Limbyr" - Which I like personally.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Is it enough that PMCs agreed here with changing Limber to Limbyr
>>>>>>> here ?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Piotr
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
>>>>>>> skype: zarzycki10
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>>>>>>> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>>>> 
>>>>> mobile: +48 880 859 557
>>>>> skype: zarzycki10
>>>>> 
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>>>>> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Wetmore
>>>> 
>>>> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Piotr Zarzycki
> 
> mobile: +48 880 859 557
> skype: zarzycki10
> 
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Looks like a conflict to me.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 3:48 PM, Harbs  wrote:
> 
> Helix is nice.
> 
> Possible conflict:
> http://www.helixsdk.org/ 
> 
>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 10:40 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> "Braid" also brings to mind "Helix". I haven't looked to see if there
 are
>> any projects that use "Helix" which I'm sure there are. And if so,
 maybe
>> "Felix" to give a nod back to Flex along with the helix.
>> 
>> —peter
 
>>> 
>> I love Helix.  It actually describes the shape:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix
>> 
>> DNA is in the shape of a double Helix, guess what DNA is made of?  Strands!
>> 
>> The name has a good ring to it as well.
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Note that OpenOffice.org was an Open Source project for ten years before it was 
donated to Apache.

So that is grandfathered use. FYI - I did the bulk of the migration of that 
site (9GB to ASF infra.)

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 2:32 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> Did folks like the name Flex when it came out?
> 
> I just looked and flex.com and flex.io are already taken for things
> unrelated to our Flex.  So having limber.com already taken isn't
> unprecedented, it is unfortunate that it goes to an adult site.
> 
> I know that we have to use .apache.org, but it would be nice
> to be able grab the .org and redirect it to
> .apache.org sort of like how openoffice.org does it.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
> 
> 
> On 9/19/17, 11:20 AM, "Harbs" <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ick…
>> 
>> Why do these things have to be so complicated? ;-)
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> There are any number of meanings for boja in many languages with and
>>> without diacritics.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.m.wik
>>> tionary.org%2Fwiki%2Fboja=02%7C01%7C%7C018cc89bdd734cf700c508d4ff8b1
>>> 95c%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636414420324190363
>>> =oUNQHDoRfKm2HDXd4SkncJ2E5yrO5GcODc4jX7hGAuM%3D=0
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Andrew Wetmore <cottag...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I can think of three ways* to pronounce "bo-ja" without even resorting
>>>> to a
>>>> South African "click" language. This makes it a challenge to refer to
>>>> the
>>>> product to anyone who does not already use it.
>>>> 
>>>> *bodja, booya, boha.
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
>>>> <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Om,
>>>>> 
>>>>> No offend :) That is why it is so hard to choose ;) I think "bo-ja"
>>>>> is the
>>>>> closes to how I pronounce it. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Piotr
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2017-09-19 19:31 GMT+02:00 OmPrakash Muppirala <bigosma...@gmail.com>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Boja is one name I really dislike.  Sorry Piotr
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Also I dont know how to pronounce it. Is it Bo-ha, or boo-ha or
>>>>>> bo-ja,
>>>>> etc?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2017 10:09 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki"
>>>>>> <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Reading Alex in VOTE thread and how many times we are mentioning
>>>>>>> Boja
>>>>> - I
>>>>>>> will change my VOTE. Limbr is a bit dangerous having Dave's finding.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Piotr
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2017-09-19 18:41 GMT+02:00 Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> FWIW, I think Limbr is another good spelling.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 7:34 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We don't have time for another vote thread.  We need to close down
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> vote tonight or early tomorrow morning.  So, if you are ok with
>>>>>> Limber
>>>>>>>>> (still not clear it will win, please state objections to using
>>>>> Limbyr
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> the spelling.  It is true a unique spelling stand out from search
>>>>>>>> results,
>>>>>>>>> but first, you have to remember how to spell it, and my spell
>>>>> checker
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> constantly changing.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -Alex
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 9/19/17, 5:05 AM, "Kessler CTR Mark J" <
>>>>> mark.kessle

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Apache Felix is an existing project. It is an OSGI container project.\

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Andrew Wetmore <cottag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Felix is the happiest name so far.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Braid is fine with me too.
>> 
>> If FlexJS doesn’t work, we can just play the game… B-)
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_(video_game) <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_(video_game)>
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 10:12 PM, Peter Ent <p...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm inclined to favor "Braid" over Limber (however you want to spell it)
>>> because I can think of too many puns associated with Limber and the first
>>> thing that comes to mind, for me, is cheese that smells.
>>> 
>>> I don't remember how to pronounce "Borja" and while English always seems
>>> to dominate, English-speaks will most likely pronounce it Boar-JA and a
>>> few will go with Boar-YA or Boar-HA. So there will probably always be a
>>> need for correction.
>>> 
>>> While "Apache Royale" has a nice ring to it for me, I think "Braid" has
>>> the right feel. You get things intertwined for a purpose, things in a
>>> pattern, strands woven together, that sort of thing.
>>> 
>>> "Braid" also brings to mind "Helix". I haven't looked to see if there are
>>> any projects that use "Helix" which I'm sure there are. And if so, maybe
>>> "Felix" to give a nod back to Flex along with the helix.
>>> 
>>> —peter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 9/19/17, 2:59 PM, "Alex Harui" <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I am not an expert, but AIUI, trademarks are intended to avoid confusion
>>>> in a marketplace.  There are lots of products named Flex, such as cars,
>>>> diabetes testing kits, and more.  There are even other software products
>>>> called Flex and we need to consider whether it confuses potential
>>>> customers about what Flex is being talked about.
>>>> 
>>>> Mostly, we will use the term "Apache " instead of just
>>>>  when publishing things, but later in those documents we'll
>>>> probably just refer to it as .
>>>> 
>>>> So, IMO, having other projects on GitHub called Braids isn't a deal
>> killer
>>>> and your link [1] probably won't cause confusion.  I was more concerned
>>>> about the Braids project related to Tensor-flow as Tensor-flow might
>>>> become the new hot thing in software in general and if that Braids took
>>>> off lots of mentions of Braids would be about that.  There is also a
>>>> Braids "static staging compiler" for TypeScript.
>>>> 
>>>> That's why I'm concerned about Royale when there is a GitHub project
>>>> called Royale that is a "A React-esque framework for Javascript".  Think
>>>> of it this way.  If you did a search on GitHub for our project name and
>>>> didn't realize we were associated with Apache, would you click on one of
>>>> these other project instead, and how long would it take you to realize
>> it
>>>> wasn't the right one?  If you go try to sell writing an app in Royale
>> and
>>>> a competitor has proposed writing it in React with the other GitHub
>>>> Royale, will that be confusing to your client?
>>>> 
>>>> I wrote to trademarks@ to see if they are similarly concerned.  They
>> don't
>>>> always respond right away.  If they are not concerned, I will probably
>>>> vote for Royale just so we have a name for tomorrow.
>>>> 
>>>> HTH,
>>>> -Alex
>>>> 
>>>> On 9/19/17, 11:43 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I checked Braid on github and found [1]. It was quite popular - can we
>>>>> just
>>>>> grab that name - I still do not understand fully those trademarks
>>>>> implications.
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>> https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.c
>>>>> o
>>>>> m%2Fcristibalan%2Fbraid=02%7C01%7C%7C5ebf232812004352ad0108d4ff8e
>> 4f1
>>>>> 7
>>>>> %7Cfa7b1b

Re: [VOTE] What should be the new Project Name for Proposed fork of FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Here is my vote:

1. Braid
2. Beads
3. Royale

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I am abstaining for now.
> 
>> On Sep 17, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> In this thread I've gathered list of names proposition for fork of FlexJS
>> project.
>> 
>> LIST:
>> 
>> Royale
>> Boja
>> Strand
>> Bead
>> Limber
>> Boinga
>> Braid
>> Arise
>> 
>> HOW DO WE VOTE:
>> 1) Pick up 3 names from the list and order them from the most favorite
>> 2) We will give points for each items in the list which you have choose
>> 3) In your list you can propose your own name - others can follow it in
>> their lists
>> 
>> EXAMPLE:
>> 1) Name1 - 3 points
>> 2) Name2 - 2 points
>> 3) Name3 - 1 point
>> 
>> WINNER:
>> We will pickup winner based on gathered points by one of the name.
>> 
>> The vote will be open until Tuesday September 19, 23:00 UTC
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Piotr
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] What should be the new Project Name for Proposed fork of FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Erik, 

You should do this on the VOTE thread.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Erik de Bruin <e...@ixsoftware.nl> wrote:
> 
> I'm changing my vote to:
> 
> 1) Limb(e)r
> 2) Bead(s)
> 3) Braid
> 
> Sorry for any confusion.
> 
> EdB
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> What a dilemma!
>> 
>> I've seen 10 votes and 2 abstentions.  I haven't voted yet.  I wanted to
>> see what the trend was first.
>> 
>> If you assign 3 points to first place, 2 to second, and 1 to third, Royale
>> has the lead at 12 points, but barely:  Bead, Boja and Limber have 10.
>> Boja has been mentioned more than any other name (6 times), but 3 of those
>> are third place votes.  Royale and Limber have been mentioned 5 times,
>> Beads 4 times.  Beads has the most first place votes (3).  Royale, Limber
>> have 2 first place votes each.
>> 
>> In short, I don't think there is a clear winner.  It will depend on how
>> you count the votes.  And we can't default back to FlexJS either given the
>> other vote.
>> 
>> I know some folks mentioned that Royale is associated with low-quality
>> foods, but does anybody think choosing Royale will be a major hindrance?
>> There is a possible conflict because some other Github project is already
>> using Royale [1] for a JS framework.  Does anybody see that as a show
>> stopper?  I think I will write to trademarks@ and try to get their
>> opinion.
>> 
>> Carlos, will you help with a new website regardless of which name is
>> chosen or only if it is Royale (or Crown)?
>> 
>> Is anybody adamantly against Beads, Boja or Limber?  After reading this
>> mornings posts, I'm leaning away from limber.  The spell checker redirect
>> issue is worrisome.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> -Alex
>> 
>> 
>> [1] https://github.com/ian-culleton/royale
>> 
>> On 9/18/17, 10:48 AM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>> <omup...@gmail.com on behalf of bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Abstain (binding)
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 18, 2017 10:47 AM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I am abstaining for now.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 17, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
>>>> <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> In this thread I've gathered list of names proposition for fork of
>>>> FlexJS
>>>>> project.
>>>>> 
>>>>> LIST:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Royale
>>>>> Boja
>>>>> Strand
>>>>> Bead
>>>>> Limber
>>>>> Boinga
>>>>> Braid
>>>>> Arise
>>>>> 
>>>>> HOW DO WE VOTE:
>>>>> 1) Pick up 3 names from the list and order them from the most favorite
>>>>> 2) We will give points for each items in the list which you have
>>>> choose
>>>>> 3) In your list you can propose your own name - others can follow it
>>>> in
>>>>> their lists
>>>>> 
>>>>> EXAMPLE:
>>>>> 1) Name1 - 3 points
>>>>> 2) Name2 - 2 points
>>>>> 3) Name3 - 1 point
>>>>> 
>>>>> WINNER:
>>>>> We will pickup winner based on gathered points by one of the name.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The vote will be open until Tuesday September 19, 23:00 UTC
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Piotr
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ix Multimedia Software
> 
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
> 
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

There are any number of meanings for boja in many languages with and without 
diacritics.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/boja

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Andrew Wetmore  wrote:
> 
> I can think of three ways* to pronounce "bo-ja" without even resorting to a
> South African "click" language. This makes it a challenge to refer to the
> product to anyone who does not already use it.
> 
> *bodja, booya, boha.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
> wrote:
> 
>> Om,
>> 
>> No offend :) That is why it is so hard to choose ;) I think "bo-ja" is the
>> closes to how I pronounce it. :)
>> 
>> Piotr
>> 
>> 2017-09-19 19:31 GMT+02:00 OmPrakash Muppirala :
>> 
>>> Boja is one name I really dislike.  Sorry Piotr
>>> 
>>> Also I dont know how to pronounce it. Is it Bo-ha, or boo-ha or bo-ja,
>> etc?
>>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2017 10:09 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki" 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Reading Alex in VOTE thread and how many times we are mentioning Boja
>> - I
 will change my VOTE. Limbr is a bit dangerous having Dave's finding.
 
 Piotr
 
 2017-09-19 18:41 GMT+02:00 Harbs :
 
> FWIW, I think Limbr is another good spelling.
> 
>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 7:34 PM, Alex Harui 
> wrote:
>> 
>> We don't have time for another vote thread.  We need to close down
>>> the
>> vote tonight or early tomorrow morning.  So, if you are ok with
>>> Limber
>> (still not clear it will win, please state objections to using
>> Limbyr
 as
>> the spelling.  It is true a unique spelling stand out from search
> results,
>> but first, you have to remember how to spell it, and my spell
>> checker
 is
>> constantly changing.
>> 
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 9/19/17, 5:05 AM, "Kessler CTR Mark J" <
>> mark.kessler@usmc.mil
 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> If limber wins, a simple discussion thread should resolve letter
 changes
>>> to the name.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Mark K
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Piotr Zarzycki [mailto:piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:52 AM
>>> To: dev@flex.apache.org
>>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> It has advantage of having the name which do not exist on github.
>>> Let
> say
>>> that Limber with win in the voting - We probably have to open
>>> another
> VOTE
>>> to have "Limbyr" - Which I like personally.
>>> 
>>> Is it enough that PMCs agreed here with changing Limber to Limbyr
 here ?
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Piotr
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
 
 
 --
 
 Piotr Zarzycki
 
 mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
 skype: zarzycki10
 
 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
 
 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>> 
>> mobile: +48 880 859 557
>> skype: zarzycki10
>> 
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Wetmore
> 
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Keep in mind -

(1) As an Apache project the URL is limbyr.apache.org (Apple mail auto-correct 
me to limber)

(2) If independent people may hear about limbyr and type in or be 
auto-corrected to limber.com . We really don’t want anyone 
in a corporation going to an adult site.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:52 AM, Piotr Zarzycki  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It has advantage of having the name which do not exist on github. Let say
> that Limber with win in the voting - We probably have to open another VOTE
> to have "Limbyr" - Which I like personally.
> 
> Is it enough that PMCs agreed here with changing Limber to Limbyr here ?
> 
> Thanks, Piotr
> 
> 
> 2017-09-19 10:44 GMT+02:00 Harbs :
> 
>> Finding names which have not yet been “taken” is tough… ;-)
>> 
>> Unusual spellings also have an advantage in search.
>> 
>> I like Limbyr.
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Alex Harui 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was looking into various spellings of Limber because just about every
>>> name we came up with is already on GitHub:
>>> limber.com  is an adult site
>>> limber.org  is an observatory
>>> limber.io is about marketing
>>> royale.com  is about ticket sales
>>> royale.org  is about dogs
>>> royale.io is owned by somebody.
>>> 
>>> Lymber is a fitness app and a software company.
>>> 
>>> limbr.org , limbr.com , limbr.io
>> are already taken
>>> 
>>> LIMBYR is interesting.  A couple of sites say it is an acronym [1][2].  I
>>> didn't read the linked pages in detail, but it seemed to have positive
>>> connotations like Royale.
>>> 
>>> limbyr.io, limbyr.org , limbyr.com <
>> http://limbyr.com/> don't seem to be in use, and limbyr has
>>> no matches Github.  Unusual spellings still have drawbacks in that folks
>>> may have a hard time remembering how to spell it and may end up at
>>> limber.*.
>>> 
>>> Can someone own an acronym like LIMBYR?  Otherwise, that is my new
>>> favorite.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?
>>> -Alex
>>> 
>>> [1]
>>> http://acronymsmeanings.com/full-meaning-of/limbyr/limbyr-
>> stands-for-limbyr > full-meaning-of/limbyr/limbyr-stands-for-limbyr>
>>> -means
>>> [2] http://www.whatmeanings.com/5/meaning-of/limbyr <
>> http://www.whatmeanings.com/5/meaning-of/limbyr>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 9/18/17, 4:30 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki" > > wrote:
>>> 
 Carlos,
 
 You are right, I'm sorry if my tone was to harsh! Too much storm lately
 around all of this. I hope soon we will have better weather. :)
 
 Best Piotr!
 
 2017-09-18 13:26 GMT+02:00 Carlos Rovira >> :
 
> Hi Piotr,
> 
> I think people could pick "Beads" as one of his options. We're all free
> to
> choose whatever we want.
> But I think this DISCUSS thread is very useful as well to express why
> this
> or that option should be considered for people voting
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 2017-09-18 11:54 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki :
> 
>> That's why we have VOTE thread, anyone can express their needs by
> picking
>> up some options.
>> 
>> Encourage everyone for voting! Let's have it done!
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Piotr
>> 
>> 
>> 2017-09-18 11:48 GMT+02:00 Carlos Rovira :
>> 
>>> I agree with Om, that naming a project with one of the features is
> not
> a
>>> good strategy in marketing terms.
>>> 
>>> Beads-Strand is a good feature that said a lot about the compositing
>> nature
>>> behind it, and something very relevant in FlexJS, but not should be
> its
>>> identifier. There's much more in our technology to focus naming in
> one
> of
>>> its benefits.
>>> 
>>> I always go to our competitors: Think about "Angular"...is just a
> cool
>> name
>>> and with no implications about the internals in that framework.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Carlos
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2017-09-18 7:30 GMT+02:00 OmPrakash Muppirala
> :
>>> 
 One point of clarification.
 
 The Beads concept comes into play only in the FlexJS SDK and not
> in
> the
 Flex Falcon or FalconJX compiler.  Some day it could be
>> FalconWebAssemby
>>> or
 FalconIOS.
 
 Naming the Apache project as Beads means that we are highlighting
> only
>>> the
 SDK and not the cross-compilers.  Are we okay with that?
 
 Thanks,
 Om
 
 
 On Sep 17, 2017 4:00 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:
 
> 

Re: [VOTE] What should be the new Project Name for Proposed fork of FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

I am abstaining for now.

> On Sep 17, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Piotr Zarzycki  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> In this thread I've gathered list of names proposition for fork of FlexJS
> project.
> 
> LIST:
> 
> Royale
> Boja
> Strand
> Bead
> Limber
> Boinga
> Braid
> Arise
> 
> HOW DO WE VOTE:
> 1) Pick up 3 names from the list and order them from the most favorite
> 2) We will give points for each items in the list which you have choose
> 3) In your list you can propose your own name - others can follow it in
> their lists
> 
> EXAMPLE:
> 1) Name1 - 3 points
> 2) Name2 - 2 points
> 3) Name3 - 1 point
> 
> WINNER:
> We will pickup winner based on gathered points by one of the name.
> 
> The vote will be open until Tuesday September 19, 23:00 UTC
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Piotr



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Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Alex -you have not voted. Please vote folks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 2:56 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Is this a No Binging VOTE?
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>> 
>> Can we stop this vote thread and start a new one for a new name?  I don't
>> want to wait until Sunday to start voting on the new name.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Alex
>> 
>>> On 9/14/17, 10:33 AM, "Peter Ent" <p...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No (binding)
>>> 
>>>> On 9/14/17, 11:37 AM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?
>>>> 
>>>> [ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
>>>> [ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be
>>>> discussed.
>>>> [ ] Abstain - Don¹t care what the forked project is called.
>>>> 
>>>> The vote will be open for 72 hours until Sunday September 17, 16:00 UT.
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Your community view is important. I encourage you to VOTE!

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 1:07 PM, Justin M. Hill  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am not someone with an official vote, but I wanted to express my concern
> about ditching the FlexJS name.
> 
> The largest possible market for adoption of a new "javascript" solution is
> to go after those who have stuck with Flex.   There are FAR too many
> javascript solutions on the market right now.
> 
> If the vote is to change the name, this will:
> 
> -- confuse the people who have been patiently waiting for FlexJS to get to
> 1.0 so they can dive in.
> 
> -- get lost in the noise of all of the other far more well popularized
> javascript frameworks like Angular, React, etc.
> 
> -- lose the feeling, however small it may be, that those who came from the
> Flex background can expect to have some of their knowledge recycled.
> 
> 
> These are 3 critical aspects in terms of raising awareness and having a
> potentially devoted following of one technology (Flex) star to transition
> and champion to a new one (FlexJS).
> 
> If we lose that, then we effectively have to target against ALL javascript
> frameworks, most notably ones that are heavily entrenched already and
> supported by giant company resources like Google and Facebook.
> 
> 
> I am strongly opposed to a name change.  I think this would be a huge
> mistake.
> 
> On top of that, picking a new name and gaining awareness of it is HARD.
> 
> It should be reason enough for the Apache powers-that-be to approve a
> project change to avoid being stuck with a huge legacy Flex bugbase that
> Adobe donated, and instead start fresh with our 1.0 name.
> 
> If that cannot be achieved, then at a bare minimum we should seek to keep
> the name FlexJS.
> 
> 
> Regarding targeting something other than Javascript -- like SWF or AIR -- I
> realize the debug aspect benefits are important, but all this is going to
> do is confuse people.
> 
> I have read about HaXe a dozen times, and I never understand what it does
> because apparently it does too much.   A swiss army knife is a lot more
> confusing to use then a fixed head screwdriver.
> 
> Please, we have spent SO much time trying to get to 1.0 -- lets get FOCUSED
> on delivering what everyone outside of the community of active participants
> here has been waiting on, which is a future direction for their Flex
> efforts.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Justin Hill
> http://Prominic.NET | Skype: JustinProminic
> 
> My Apache Flex community contribution is working on the open
> source Moonshine-IDE.com for FlexJS.

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Thank you and I agree so long as FlexJS is not on the second ballot.

I recommend a preference list.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 12:21 PM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes. I am willing to go along with changing the name and start a vote asap on 
> what it should be.
> 
> As far as I’m concerned this vote can remain open and the second vote can 
> proceed in parallel. If the first vote concludes with “yes”, then the second 
> vote will be void. I don’t see that waiting to start a second vote until the 
> first vote finishes is beneficial.
> 
> I’d REALLY like to have this wrapped up before the board meeting next week.
> 
> To be official:
> No (binding)
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2017, at 9:55 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Is this a “No” Binding vote?
>> 
>>> On Sep 14, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> +1 from me.
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 14, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Can we stop this vote thread and start a new one for a new name?  I don't
>>>> want to wait until Sunday to start voting on the new name.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> -Alex
>>>> 
>>>>> On 9/14/17, 10:33 AM, "Peter Ent" <p...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> No (binding)
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 9/14/17, 11:37 AM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
>>>>>> [ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be
>>>>>> discussed.
>>>>>> [ ] Abstain - Don¹t care what the forked project is called.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The vote will be open for 72 hours until Sunday September 17, 16:00 UT.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Is this a No Binding VOTE?

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I see the consensus already,I'm sorry for the noise and insist for the VOTE
> guys. We may start VOTE on, a new name. Some folks were for YES to the old
> one, but I see that they are also open for the new name.
> 
> Piotr
> 
> 2017-09-14 20:28 GMT+02:00 Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.invalid>:
> 
>> Can we stop this vote thread and start a new one for a new name?  I don't
>> want to wait until Sunday to start voting on the new name.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 9/14/17, 10:33 AM, "Peter Ent" <p...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>> 
>>> No (binding)
>>> 
>>> On 9/14/17, 11:37 AM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?
>>>> 
>>>> [ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
>>>> [ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be
>>>> discussed.
>>>> [ ] Abstain - Don¹t care what the forked project is called.
>>>> 
>>>> The vote will be open for 72 hours until Sunday September 17, 16:00 UT.
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Piotr Zarzycki
> 
> mobile: +48 880 859 557
> skype: zarzycki10
> 
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>



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Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Is this a No Binging VOTE?

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> Can we stop this vote thread and start a new one for a new name?  I don't
> want to wait until Sunday to start voting on the new name.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/14/17, 10:33 AM, "Peter Ent" <p...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
>> No (binding)
>> 
>> On 9/14/17, 11:37 AM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?
>>> 
>>> [ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
>>> [ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be
>>> discussed.
>>> [ ] Abstain - Don¹t care what the forked project is called.
>>> 
>>> The vote will be open for 72 hours until Sunday September 17, 16:00 UT.
>>> 
>> 
> 



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Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Is this a “No” Binding vote?

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> +1 from me.
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>> 
>> Can we stop this vote thread and start a new one for a new name?  I don't
>> want to wait until Sunday to start voting on the new name.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 9/14/17, 10:33 AM, "Peter Ent" <p...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
>> 
>>> No (binding)
>>> 
>>> On 9/14/17, 11:37 AM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?
>>>> 
>>>> [ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
>>>> [ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be
>>>> discussed.
>>>> [ ] Abstain - Don¹t care what the forked project is called.
>>>> 
>>>> The vote will be open for 72 hours until Sunday September 17, 16:00 UT.
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 



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Re: [VOTE][DISCUSS] Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I am not available for anything until Saturday. I’m done.

I proposed the process as far as I can tell there is not even a consensus on 
what other names to vote on other than Royale. I consider this move to squash 
the vote to be steamrolling. I explained it yesterday to proceed in parallel.

There is no reason not to proceed with the VOTE. I am not rescinding it. Plenty 
of time was given to discuss this I gave a ballot and warned people what it 
would be.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> Can we stop this vote thread and start a new one for a new name?  I don't
> want to wait until Sunday to start voting on the new name.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/14/17, 10:33 AM, "Peter Ent" <p...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
>> No (binding)
>> 
>> On 9/14/17, 11:37 AM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?
>>> 
>>> [ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
>>> [ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be
>>> discussed.
>>> [ ] Abstain - Don¹t care what the forked project is called.
>>> 
>>> The vote will be open for 72 hours until Sunday September 17, 16:00 UT.
>>> 
>> 
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Like these two names - Roy-Al

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 4:15 AM, Yishay Weiss  wrote:
> 
> How is Royale pronounced? Can Americans pronounce it and stay alive? I would 
> go with a max 2 syllable word. If it’s Roh-yah-lay, then sorry Carlos, I’d 
> send you back to the drawing board.
> 
> From: Harbs
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 12:55 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
> 
> I agree that for a new name it should just be something unique with a good 
> “ring” to it.
> 
> Harbs
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2017, at 12:49 PM, Olaf Krueger  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> I just would like to mention that it seems to me that there's an inner urge
>> inside most of us to leave the beaten paths and to build a new identity for
>> FlexJS which is more appropriate to this awesome technology in any respects.
>> 
>> Moreover, it seems to me more and more that such a new shiny identity
>> provides a fair chance to get more people involved.
>> 
>> I just fear the effort.
>> So thank you, Carlos, for your offer to help out with this!!!
>> 
>> I like "bøje" which is the Danish translation for "bend"
>> (I think this was already suggested by Harbs anywhere).
>> 
>> I also like anagrams and words as names that don't exist yet, e.g.:
>> Flex -> elfX
>> 
>> However and whatever name, you got me!
>> 
>> Olaf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://apache-flex-development.247.n4.nabble.com/
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

 On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki
>>> <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change
>>>> the
>>>> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
>>>> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed
>>>> name...
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
>>>> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least
>>>> one
>>>> day more before VOTE.
>>>> 
>>>> Piotr
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>:
>>>> 
>>>>> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build
>>>> new
>>>>> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>>>> state
>>>>> from where we have come and what was our story.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as
>>>> the
>>>>> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it
>>>> since
>>>>> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Piotr
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it,
>>>> that’s
>>>>>> value I can recognize.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be
>>>> involved
>>>>>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the
>>>> name.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>>>> about
>>>>>> mine.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want
>>>> to
>>>>>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name
>>>> can
>>>> we
>>>>>> try and pick one quickly?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result
>>>> then
>>>>>> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Harbs
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>>>>>> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really
>>>> important
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>>>>>> important in
>>>>>>>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we
>>>> don't
>>>>>> get a
>>>>>>>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>>>>>> explain
>>>>>>>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our
>>>> time,
>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects,
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
&g

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I did a quick suitable name search.

Royale might be taken by this individual’s project 
https://github.com/ian-culleton/royale <https://github.com/ian-culleton/royale>

Otherwise Royale in a TESS search is liquor and beauty products mostly.
There is a lot of “Clash Royale"

And there is also “Royale with Cheese” - a reference in Pulp Fiction to what a 
Macdonald’s Quarter Pounder is called in Paris.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> We have one alternative name - Royale
> 
> Are there others that people would like to propose?
> 
> If not then we can have a simple VOTE between FlexJS and Royale.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Om,
>> 
>> I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. If we 
>> want to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more complicated 
>> VOTE counting.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala <bigosma...@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
>>> 
>>> 1.  Royale
>>> 2.  XXX
>>> 3.  YYY
>>> 4.  FlexJS
>>> 
>>> One vote should answer both questions.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Om
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
>>>> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
>>>> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
>>>> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
>>>> day more before VOTE.
>>>> 
>>>> Piotr
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>:
>>>> 
>>>>> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
>>>>> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>>>> state
>>>>> from where we have come and what was our story.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
>>>>> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
>>>>> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Piotr
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>>>>>> value I can recognize.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>>>>>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>>>> about
>>>>>> mine.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>>>>>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>>>> we
>>>>>> try and pick one quickly?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
>>>>>> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

We have one alternative name - Royale

Are there others that people would like to propose?

If not then we can have a simple VOTE between FlexJS and Royale.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Om,
> 
> I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. If we 
> want to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more complicated 
> VOTE counting.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala <bigosma...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
>> 
>> 1.  Royale
>> 2.  XXX
>> 3.  YYY
>> 4.  FlexJS
>> 
>> One vote should answer both questions.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
>>> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
>>> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
>>> 
>>> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
>>> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
>>> day more before VOTE.
>>> 
>>> Piotr
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>:
>>> 
>>>> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
>>>> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>>> state
>>>> from where we have come and what was our story.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
>>>> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
>>>> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Piotr
>>>> 
>>>> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi -
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>>>>> value I can recognize.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>>>>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>>> about
>>>>> mine.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>>>>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>>> we
>>>>> try and pick one quickly?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
>>>>> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Harbs
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>>>>> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>>>>> important in
>>>>>>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
>>>>> get a
>>>>>>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>>>>> explain
>>>>>>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>>>>> since
>>>>>>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>>>>>>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
>>> than
>>>>> JS!!
>>>>>>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>>> 
>>>> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
>>>> skype: zarzycki10
>>>> 
>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>>>> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>> 
>>> mobile: +48 880 859 557
>>> skype: zarzycki10
>>> 
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>>> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
>>> 
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Om,

I think that dilutes the votes and biases the result towards FlexJS. If we want 
to go that way then we need a preference ranking and more complicated VOTE 
counting.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala <bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We could always structure the VOTE like this:
> 
> 1.  Royale
> 2.  XXX
> 3.  YYY
> 4.  FlexJS
> 
> One vote should answer both questions.
> 
> Thanks,
> Om
> 
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On the other hand, we have rather majority of voices for do not change the
>> name and Alex is right. - I'm seeing more people asking for help with
>> porting. - We may disappear in the sea of frameworks with changed name...
>> 
>> Maybe better have solid framework and invest in current name still with
>> nice branding. I'm puzzled, so definitely I will give myself at least one
>> day more before VOTE.
>> 
>> Piotr
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2017-09-13 23:31 GMT+02:00 Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>:
>> 
>>> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
>>> 
>>> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
>>> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always
>> state
>>> from where we have come and what was our story.
>>> 
>>> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
>>> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
>>> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Piotr
>>> 
>>> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
>>> 
>>>> Hi -
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>>>> value I can recognize.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>>>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do
>> about
>>>> mine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>>>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>> we
>>>> try and pick one quickly?
>>>> 
>>>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>>>> 
>>>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
>>>> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Harbs
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>>>> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
>>>> for
>>>>>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>>>> important in
>>>>>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
>>>> get a
>>>>>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>>>> explain
>>>>>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>>>> since
>>>>>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>>>>>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other
>> than
>>>> JS!!
>>>>>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>> 
>>> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
>>> skype: zarzycki10
>>> 
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>>> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>> 
>> mobile: +48 880 859 557
>> skype: zarzycki10
>> 
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
>> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
>> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

When we start the VOTE I suggest the following ballot:

VOTE Should the Project Name of the Proposed Fork be FlexJS?

[ ] Yes - The forked project should be Apache FlexJS.
[ ] No - The forked project should have another name which will be discussed.
[ ] Abstain - Don’t care what the forked project is called.

Discuss?

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> +1 for Dave's proposition on starting the VOTE for name change.
> 
> I would like to also add that Carlos's proposition for help to build new
> brand triggers me. Peter helped also do understand that we can always state
> from where we have come and what was our story.
> 
> I'm going to change my mind on name changing and pickup "Royale" as the
> most powerful for the new one. - The main question is can we use it since
> it was code name of Macromedia Framework ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Piotr
> 
> 2017-09-13 22:59 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>> 
>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>> value I can recognize.
>>> 
>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>> 
>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about
>> mine.
>>> 
>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can we
>> try and pick one quickly?
>> 
>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>> 
>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then we
>> can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Harbs
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira <
>> carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important for
>>>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>>>> 
>>>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is important
>> in
>>>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't get
>> a
>>>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>> explain
>>>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>> since
>>>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>>>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than
>> JS!!
>>>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>>>> 
>>>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Piotr Zarzycki
> 
> mobile: +48 880 859 557
> skype: zarzycki10
> 
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
> <https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Alex,

Let’s slow the roll and see what the people say when the sun is shining on 
their part of the globe.

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I prefer not to rush a vote for FlexJS because I feel like Carlos and Om
> are starting to change some minds.  AFAICT, everyone who was in favor of
> FlexJS as the name was mainly concerned about how migrating Flex customers
> will find that we have something that can help them.  And the answer to
> that is going to affect my decision, so maybe we need to focus on that
> quickly.
> 
> It could be that it doesn’t matter whether FlexJS is the product name
> because migrating customers just want to know that it is a next generation
> of Flex and can help them with migration and don't care what it is called.
> 
> 
> Also, we have a transition problem anyway.  If the fork is approved, we're
> going to want to put in redirects on parts of flex.a.o that mention FlexJS
> referring to the fork.  Maybe those redirects could go anywhere unless
> folks will somehow be more assured by landing on a FlexJS page instead of
> a Foo page?   IOW, maybe FlexJS is out there enough that redirects will be
> how people find us regardless of name.
> 
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/13/17, 1:59 PM, "Dave Fisher" <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
>>> 
>>> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s
>>> value I can recognize.
>>> 
>>> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved
>>> in the project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
>>> 
>>> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about
>>> mine.
>>> 
>>> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to
>>> delay the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can
>>> we try and pick one quickly?
>> 
>> Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.
>> 
>> In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then
>> we can immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Harbs
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira
>>>> <carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important
>>>> for
>>>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>>>> 
>>>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is
>>>> important in
>>>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't
>>>> get a
>>>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we
>>>> explain
>>>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time,
>>>> since
>>>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>>>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than
>>>> JS!!
>>>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>>>> 
>>>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for
>> 
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Harbs  wrote:
> 
> Carlos’ argument carries weight to me.
> 
> If a new name will help motivate him in terms of marketing it, that’s value I 
> can recognize.
> 
> The name is not as important to me as motivating people to be involved in the 
> project. We can build whatever messages we want around the name.
> 
> Carlos clearly feels more passionate about his position than I do about mine.
> 
> A hesitation I have about picking a new name is that I don’t want to delay 
> the board’s decision on the new PMC. If we go for a new name can we try and 
> pick one quickly?

Let's start the FlexJS yes or no vote tonight or tomorrow morning.

In parallel we can discuss other names if a new name is the result then we can 
immediately start the next vote. We have just enough time.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> Harbs
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Carlos Rovira  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm putting some efforts here since I think this is really important for
>> all of us and for our beloved FlexJS project.
>> 
>> Name, website and all the visuals behind it mattersand is important in
>> a way many of us in this community maybe can't imagine. If we don't get a
>> fresh and compelling name and a clean and beautiful site where we explain
>> all the great things our technology can do, we are losing our time, since
>> this project will end with the bulk of the others xxxJS projects, and
>> that's even horrible when our tech could be used for things other than JS!!
>> (If we want in future years to make it possible).
>> 
>> @Alex: I Think we can't have a PROJECT name != of PRODUCT name for

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Alex,

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> I believe those who say that trying to sell Flex or FlexJS to a client is
> difficult.
> 
> I don't have hard data to back this, but I've always felt that there are
> two kinds of Flex customers.  One set builds their own applications and
> thus can choose their own development technologies.  Another set builds
> applications for other people and have to complete against other
> candidates wanting to build those same applications.

I think you are drawing an arbitrary line here. For success the project needs 
to be able to have a product that independent contractors and corporate 
developers can use and trust to be there for them while meeting inner source 
standards.

I truly believe that there is only time for one more project reset.

I’m inclined to think that if you want to stick with FlexJS then just create a 
new mailing list called flexjs-us...@flex.apache.org. Then build FlexJS until 
you reach the magical place of wanting to extend to a non-JS framework.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> I believe the first set have Flex apps that need to migrate to something
> else by 2020.  I'm surprised there isn't more noise on our lists, but I
> think I'm seeing an increase in interest on our lists.  IMO, these are the
> customers it will be easier for us to win over since they have an existing
> code base in ActionScript and already buy into the fundamentals of Flex.
> I think there will be enough of these customers to keep us busy polishing
> the components.
> 
> Gaining traction in the second set is harder.  I am hopeful that success
> and lessons learned serving the first set will get us to the point where
> we are truly ready to compare our code against the other frameworks out
> there.  And we might need a different brand name.  You don't have to wait,
> you can try to promote our code in that arena now, but I am concerned that
> we have too many rough edges right now.  Our doc isn't up to date and
> doesn't look great.  And we need more doc.  I'll be trying to get the doc
> build working today, and we need to get this working better for both sets
> of customers and more volunteers are welcome to help.
> 
> But I think the only question we want answered before the board meeting is
> whether the project name FlexJS is going to make it hard to build a brand
> with a different name to considered against the other JS frameworks.  I
> think it won't.  Carlos and Om, I feel like you haven't answered the
> question about PROJECT name.  I don't think there is anybody saying we
> shouldn't build a different brand on a different PRODUCT name later.  Do
> you feel like the PROJECT name of FlexJS is going to be a hindrance, and
> why?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/13/17, 10:57 AM, "omup...@gmail.com on behalf of OmPrakash Muppirala"
>  wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017 9:39 AM, "Yishay Weiss"  wrote:
>> 
>> My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products
>> without the JS suffix that’s fine with me.
>> 
>> On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name
>> change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.
>> 
>> 
>> I agree with Carlos.  Bringing in the word Flex-something into a
>> conversation with peers is proving to be hard.
>> 
>> If anything, a new name would bring a fresh perspective on this wonderful
>> technology.
>> 
>> I volunteer to help out with the branding as much as I can.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Om
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Alex Harui
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
>> To: dev@flex.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>> 
>> Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
>> important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
>> to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
>> with names that do not match the PROJECT name.
>> 
>> So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
>> think we can target a different group of customers with a different
>> PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
>> stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
>> called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
>> eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
>> PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
>> Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?
>> 
>> I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
>> manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
>> manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
>> (Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
>> company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos 

Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Yishay Weiss  wrote:
> 
> My main concern was with the JS suffix. If we can create new products without 
> the JS suffix that’s fine with me.
> 
> On the other hand, if Carlos or someone else feels passionate about a name 
> change and volunteers to deal with the overhead I wouldn’t go against it.

Well we have to deal with a new logo and website and various overhead 
regardless of whether the new project is FlexJS or Fubar.

> 
> From: Alex Harui
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:33 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
> 
> Actually, my question was whether the PROJECT name is more or less
> important than the PRODUCT name.  Mostly, the board/infra doesn't want us
> to change the PROJECT name.  Infra replied that we can create PRODUCTs
> with names that do not match the PROJECT name.
> 
> So, could we live with the PROJECT being called FlexJS forever?  If we
> think we can target a different group of customers with a different
> PRODUCT name we can discuss what that name is later.  Now AIUI, if we do
> stick with FlexJS as the PROJECT, and later decide to create a PRODUCT
> called Foo, I think somewhere on web pages for Foo it will link back
> eventually to our source repositories and other pages that have the
> PROJECT name "FlexJS" on it and people might go "Huh, I didn't know that
> Foo was based on FlexJS".  But will they run away?

Most Projects == Product initially

> 
> I buy lots of foods with brand names that I have no idea who the actual
> manufacturer is.  In the US, a fancy brand of cookies (Pepperidge Farm) is
> manufactured by the same company that makes cheap condensed soup
> (Campbells).  A popular salad dressing is made by a well-known bleach
> company (Clorox).  So, I agree with Carlos that it might be worth building
> a whole new brand without the word Flex in it, but I think the only
> question we need to answer right now is whether the PROJECT name "FlexJS"
> will be a hindrance to building that brand.

This analogy is more along the lines of Apache as Campbells/Clorox and 
Pepperidge Farm as Apache Flex and Campbells Soups as Apache HTTPD. Apache 
FlexJS could be gluten free diabetic bread by say Healthy Pepperidge Farm. 
Would Pepperidge Farm consumers be confused by the Brand change and wonder why?

If we are trying to separate cleanly from Flex that argues for a new project 
name with Flex transferring the FlexJS product to the new project.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/13/17, 4:07 AM, "Harbs"  wrote:
> 
>> Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a
>> concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into
>> something else in the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to
>> be concerned about right now.
>> 
>> I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Piotr Zarzycki 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
>>> board.
>> 
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Carlos.

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 5:39 AM, Carlos Rovira <carlos.rov...@codeoscopic.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, just see this now, but I responded in the other thread. copying
> response:
> 
> Regarding name, I would prefer a name change since the suffix "JS" is not
> reflecting the real potential of this project. If we want to output JS
> exclusively, I think it would be ok.
> 
> In the other hand, "Flex" name has very bad press in IT and companies. If
> you put the word "Flex", you can have many problems with your work and
> credibility with the people you talk.

Do you have examples of Apache Flex or FlexJS getting bad press? It would make 
your argument more persuasive.

> 
> In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React, Vue,
> Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play well
> our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology

You mean like Beads, Bend or Strands?

> 
> In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
> want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get considered
> in the mainstream.
> 
> Just my 2

More than that ;-)

Regards,
Dave

> 
> thanks
> 
> Carlos
> 
> 
> 
> 2017-09-12 10:58 GMT+02:00 Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com>:
> 
>> I personally do not see a need for a new name.
>> 
>> To me it’s more about branding the name. If FlexJS has its own identity
>> and Flash is barely mentioned I don’t think it’s dragging along the Flash
>> associations. For those familiar with Flex and wanting to migrate to JS,
>> the FlexJS name is a positive thing.
>> 
>> Harbs
>> 
>>> On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi -
>>> 
>>> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted on
>> a few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
>> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
>>> 
>>> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
>>> 
>>> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection
>> to Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
>>> 
>>> Please provide arguments in any direction.
>>> 
>>> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
>> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses of
>> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should vote.
>>> 
>>> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion
>> about keeping FlexJS.
>>> 
>>> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
>> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> <http://www.codeoscopic.com>
> 
> Carlos Rovira
> 
> Director General
> 
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> 
> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> 
> http://www.avant2.es
> 
> 
> Conocenos en 1 minuto! <https://youtu.be/P2IEAYDG5HU>
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I specifically asked Shane about when a trademark becomes an Apache mark. The 
answer can be summarized as once it is used. For a project that is when it 
approved and the website goes up. For a product it is when it is released. The 
TM ought be used to make it clear, but it can be implicit. It is important to 
do the Suitable Name Search to make sure that it looks like use of a name would 
not infringe on someone else’s mark.

> On Sep 11, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> I would like some thoughts on a related question, but first some context:
> 
> IMO, it would help to continue to develop and ship a product called Apache
> FlexJS right now to draw in migrating Flex folks.  And maybe some day,
> we'll ship a product that is more targeted to folks writing new JS apps
> and maybe even target runtimes other than JS, and that might have a name
> that doesn't have Flex in it.  So, the _project_ could be called something
> else, but it seems odd for there to be an Apache Flex project and an
> Apache XX project that ships an Apache FlexJS product.

Assuming Flex will allow XX to do so yes.

> 
> So my question is: How impactful the project name is compared to the
> product name?  I'm not sure I can recite the project/manufacturer names
> behind many products but most are the same at Apache.

Around Lucene which came out of Nutch:
Apache Lucene is a project and product. Apache Solr is a product of Apache 
Lucene.
Apache Lucene.Net is a project and product.
Apache Lucy is a project and product.

> 
> So, if someone thinks of a great project name that can encompass these
> possibilities in our future and Apache authorities won't object to using
> FlexJS for a product in a project with a different name, I would be in
> favor of the new name, but if project names aren't as impactful as product
> names, I'd just lean towards sticking with FlexJS as the project name for
> now just so we can get the proposal decided on in the September 20 board
> meeting and not have to wait more.

If we think a new name is appropriate then now is the time that’s why we should 
move ahead.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
> 
> On 9/11/17, 9:35 PM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Dave,
>> 
>> I believe that FlexJS is the right name. We have gained some recognition
>> and visibility among people and companies. I don't believe that we are
>> really at the beginning anymore.
>> 
>> Our main first customers are companies who would like to rewrite their
>> apps
>> from Flex, so this connection is something really good.
>> If majority which response to this thread would like to change the name I
>> will not fight. Keep in mind that we really would like to have the project
>> split - I believe that is the most important to us.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Piotr
>> 
>> 2017-09-12 3:01 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
>> 
>>> Hi -
>>> 
>>> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted
>>> on a
>>> few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
>>> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
>>> 
>>> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
>>> 
>>> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection
>>> to
>>> Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
>>> 
>>> Please provide arguments in any direction.
>>> 
>>> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
>>> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses
>>> of
>>> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should
>>> vote.
>>> 
>>> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion
>>> about
>>> keeping FlexJS.
>>> 
>>> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
>>> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>> 
>> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
>> skype: zarzycki10
>> 
>> LinkedIn:
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linked
>> in.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki=02%7C01%7C%7C9e4bacb6b08a4923de8108d4f997b9a7%
>> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636407877434499520=Nhht
>> Kaf9RlzE9cCdJ3WErVGfHVFXsdQX%2BK48hw0Der8%3D=0
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpl.linke
>> din.com%2Fin%2Fpiotr-zarzycki-92a53552=02%7C01%7C%7C9e4bacb6b08a4923d
>> e8108d4f997b9a7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C6364078774344
>> 99520=el1sClOn82J2rnnm4N01Te8Z5bPylMriHy%2Fdp0%2Budd0%3D=0>
> 



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[DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted on a few 
weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to discuss if a 
new name should be attached to the forked project.

There are one or two propositions to discuss.

(1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection to 
Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?

Please provide arguments in any direction.

(2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate 
reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses of 
these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should vote.

A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion about 
keeping FlexJS.

This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open process in 
advance of the next ASF Board meeting.

Regards,
Dave


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Re: [DISCUSS} Fork FlexJS from Apache Flex

[Dave Fisher]

That's a conflict. We would want a nonconflicting name that will not confuse 
our users.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 2:25 PM, Harbs  wrote:
> 
> Well, Phoenix is already a thing:
> http://phoenixframework.org/ 
> 
> Not sure about trademark issues…
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 11:55 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I want to throw in the name FenixJS for the fork.
>> Its a play on the words Flex + Phoenix.  You know what that means :-)
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Om
> 

Re: git commit: [flex-falcon] [refs/heads/develop] - compiler-jx: Added -js-default-initializers option to force uninitialized variables to default to the same values in JS as they do in SWF.

[Dave Fisher]

I hate this Macbook’s touch top bar which puts a send button directly above the 
delete key.

> On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:50 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> A peanut gallery look at NaN which is really a bit encoding for various kinds 
> of floating point number errors like underflow, overflow, divided by 0, etc. 
> In my Fortran past life we used XMISS as a special valu

Value. Essentially undefined.

IEEE had very particular definitions and Apple published a book about SANE.

At any rate what you guys are observing is by design: NaN always results in 
false in any comparison. And it is a number. But it is not a number in floating 
point so much as it is an error condition.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1565164/what-is-the-rationale-for-all-comparisons-returning-false-for-ieee754-nan-values

https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~wkahan/ieee754status/IEEE754.PDF

My father complained about when the IBM 360 came out in the early 1960’s he had 
to go to doubles because the IBM architecture went from 6 - 6 bit words for a 
single to 4 - 8 bit words. The practical result was twice as much magnetic tape 
both length and number of reals.

Regards,
Dave

> 
>> On Aug 1, 2017, at 3:21 PM, Greg Dove <greg.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes it does. NaN is an 'instance' of the Number type (even though it is
>> 'Not a Number' ;)  )
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Interesting.
>>> 
>>> I’m not sure that I realized that NaN passes that test. Does it?
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 2, 2017, at 1:12 AM, Greg Dove <greg.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I agree undefined works the same as NaN for many things for example, but
>>> it
>>>> fails on very basic things like if (x is Number)
>>> 
>>> 
> 



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Re: git commit: [flex-falcon] [refs/heads/develop] - compiler-jx: Added -js-default-initializers option to force uninitialized variables to default to the same values in JS as they do in SWF.

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Folks,

A peanut gallery look at NaN which is really a bit encoding for various kinds 
of floating point number errors like underflow, overflow, divided by 0, etc. In 
my Fortran past life we used XMISS as a special valu

> On Aug 1, 2017, at 3:21 PM, Greg Dove  wrote:
> 
> Yes it does. NaN is an 'instance' of the Number type (even though it is
> 'Not a Number' ;)  )
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Harbs  wrote:
> 
>> Interesting.
>> 
>> I’m not sure that I realized that NaN passes that test. Does it?
>> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2017, at 1:12 AM, Greg Dove  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree undefined works the same as NaN for many things for example, but
>> it
>>> fails on very basic things like if (x is Number)
>> 
>> 



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Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

Justin -

You seem to pick the part of the conversation that you are interested in and 
edit out the rest of the context. It makes it difficult to have a conversation 
about the best way to move forward in this project.

Harbs:
>>> Feel free to do what you want to SonarQube now, but don’t make any changes 
>>> based on the reports.
>> 

Justin:
>> You are free to review any commits and I make and veto any them on their 
>> technical merits. You are not free to revert any changes without discussion 
>> or a veto. Everyone is free to scratch their own itch here and the tools you 
>> use to find any issues should be irrelevant.

Dave:
> Here we have the catch. Apache projects also operate by consensus and as 
> volunteers. If one individual works against consensus and also takes peoples 
> time away then problems arise with the community dynamic. RTC has been 
> suggested precisely because it is one way to solve this issue. There are 
> other ways.
> 
> Consensus is very important please work on that aspect of this discussion.

My whole statement worked together and I would appreciate it if you would think 
about this in its whole. Think about other times when you and Harbs have had 
this dynamic.

Think about “other ways”. The project does not appear interested in following 
RTC.

Ahh there went 10 minutes to try to explain it again. (Sigh)

Regards,
Dave


> 
> Thank you,
> Dave
> 



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Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

The exercise with the Wiki was essentially for you to present a proposed set of 
Sonar rules. You did this, thank you.

It was not intended by me as [LAZY CONSENSUS]. Clearly there is healthy 
disagreement and consensus is not yet achieved.

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 11:22 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:



> 
> Would you not agree that some (if not all) of these need fixing?
> 
>> A lot of the rules fly in the face to current convention in the SDK.
> 
> Which ones in particular?

You can see that a lot ion Flex Developers do not agree. Which ones is a good 
question, but keep in mind this will take time, and should not be forced. I 
think that the burden should be a discussion of a specific case.

> 
>> Some (such as returning from a constructor) are actually enforced by the 
>> compiler so the rule is not needed.
> 
> If that the case there no harm in having them on as there should be no 
> violations right?

The harm can come as seen bellow.

> 
>> Feel free to do what you want to SonarQube now, but don’t make any changes 
>> based on the reports.
> 
> You are free to review any commits and I make and veto any them on their 
> technical merits. You are not free to revert any changes without discussion 
> or a veto. Everyone is free to scratch their own itch here and the tools you 
> use to find any issues should be irrelevant.


Here we have the catch. Apache projects also operate by consensus and as 
volunteers. If one individual works against consensus and also takes peoples 
time away then problems arise with the community dynamic. RTC has been 
suggested precisely because it is one way to solve this issue. There are other 
ways.

Consensus is very important please work on that aspect of this discussion.

Thank you,
Dave



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Re: FYI: React appears to be a no-no

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

The RocksDB community is changing their license and React is being asked to as 
well: https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/10191

Let's see how this plays out.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 6:19 AM, Harbs  wrote:
> 
> The incompatibility of React’s license is potentially significant for 
> FlexJS.[1]
> 
> [1]https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-319 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Multipart

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Harbs,

If the package naming is kept is there any risk of a user having a classname 
collision if they use the original GitHub project?

Regards,
Dave

> On Jul 14, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Harbs  wrote:
> 
> I contacted the other contributors.
> 
> I already got permission from the one who did the critical fix. (forwarded to 
> the dev list) That only leaves one more who did convenience code changes. We 
> can remove that code if necessary.
> 
> The document changes were not in the class file. It was to the readme in the 
> repo.
> 
> Question: I assume that we keep the same package naming if we include it on 
> the repo unless it’s specifically donated to Apache. Correct?
> 
> What about a modified class that I changed to work with FlexJS? Would that 
> get an apache package path or not?
> 
>> On Jul 14, 2017, at 6:18 PM, Alex Harui  wrote:
>> 
>> AIUI, we are supposed to try to contact all contributors, no matter how
>> small.  If you don't hear from all of them, the PMC has to make a risk
>> assessment.  If we take un-permitted lines of code and someone later
>> objects, could we quickly remove those lines of code and replace it?  Or,
>> should our initial check-in not include un-permitted lines of code and the
>> first commits replace them?
>> 
>> Of course, I could be wrong...
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 7/13/17, 2:40 PM, "Harbs"  wrote:
>> 
>>> One of them was documentation edits.
>>> 
>>> Another was a workaround for a Flash permissions issue. It was a sometime
>>> yes, sometimes no problem. I finally found where the problem lay that
>>> required that code. You can see the comments in old issues on that repo.
>>> That piece of code is very necessary for Flash. There’s really only one
>>> way to solve that particular issue. Not sure if he can own that solution.
>>> 
>>> The third was some convenience methods. Not a major contribution.
>>> 
 On Jul 14, 2017, at 12:07 AM, Alex Harui 
 wrote:
 
 Made two comments in the GH issue.  Looks like there were other
 contributors so we may need to get their permission to make the license
 ALv2.
 
 Of course, I could be wrong,...
 -Alex
 
 On 7/12/17, 9:14 PM, "Harbs"  wrote:
 
> I don’t think he has plans on modifying it.
> 
> Do you mind making the suggestion about the header to the Github issue?
> 
>> On Jul 13, 2017, at 7:10 AM, Alex Harui 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> IMO, if the original author will be helping make changes to this file,
>> we
>> want an ICLA.  If he has no plans to work on it, then attaching it to
>> a
>> JIRA would be sufficient documentation of his intent to donate it.
>> 
>> Either way, it would help if he put the 3rd-party ALv2 header in the
>> file.
>> 
>> -Alex
>> 
>> On 7/12/17, 8:59 PM, "Harbs"  wrote:
>> 
>>> In our repo with my modifications for FlexJS.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jul 13, 2017, at 1:22 AM, Alex Harui 
 wrote:
 
 What do you mean by "adopt".  That the new home for further
 improvements
 is in our repo or that we're using it as a third-party dependency?
 
 -Alex
 
 On 7/12/17, 12:45 PM, "Harbs"  wrote:
 
> There’s a great class for uploading multi-part HTTP requests. I’ve
> been
> using it for years, and I’ve ported it for use with FlexJS. It
> works
> great in that context too.
> 
> I just asked the author if he minds if we adopt it and he’s very
> happy
> for us to do so.[1]
> 
> It’s one class. Do we need to go through an ICLA, or can we just
> bring
> it
> in with no fuss?
> 
> Thanks,
> Harbs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [1]https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> gi
> th
> ub
> 
> 
> 
> .com%2Fjimojon%2FMultipart.as%2Fissues%2F9=02%7C01%7C%7C61a62bf
> 56
> 17
> 14
> 
> 
> 
> 5e9929708d4c95e9650%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636
> 35
> 48
> 55
> 
> 
> 
> 465043104=2SKnAIfWKXwDacqORK3Td9AyYffkEXBYr%2BTPdtm6efo%3D
> er
> ve
> d=
> 0
> 
> 
> 
>  th
> ub
> .c
> 
> 
> 
> om%2Fjimojon%2FMultipart.as%2Fissues%2F9=02%7C01%7C%7C61a62bf56
> 17
> 14
> 5e
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

OK got it.

Before you accuse anyone (even if you expressed doubt) do you have a way to 
determine who made the change to the Sonar Cube configuration? Does 
Infrastructure?

Did anyone on the Flex project make any changes?

Regards,
Dave

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> My discussion was around procedures related to technical debt.
> 
> And you would agree the Sonar Cube configuration relates to that?
> 
>> Keep in mind that this is all my opinion as part of the PMC. If others don't 
>> agree then there is not yet consensus.
> 
> Which is why as suggested I’m trying to document [1] and get consensus on 
> what we can do before changing the configuration.
> 
>> I'm not sure about the profile. Please take a look at the commits and you 
>> should question and discuss that change separately on TECHNICAL merits.
> 
> There are no commits (it's not under version control) but just options in the 
> Sonar web interface, there's was no discussion and no email to the list about 
> these changes.
> 
> Note that the changes effect ALL Apache projects using Sonar Cube (using that 
> default profile) not just the Flex project so that should be reason enough to 
> reset it back to the way it was. I did suggest to creating a new profile.
> 
> For a technical point of view there are a number of useful rules that have 
> been disabled i.e. rules that pick up issues like this: for (var i:int =0; i 
> < someArray.length; i++) where someArray.length should be defined outside the 
> loop for performance reasons.
> 
> So consider this a -1 (veto) with valid reason as stated above and unless 
> someone has a good technical reason why those all those rules were disabled 
> for all projects I suggest they be reverted.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Sonar+Cube+Flex+Rules 
> 



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Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

My discussion was around procedures related to technical debt. Keep in mind 
that this is all my opinion as part of the PMC. If others don't agree then 
there is not yet consensus.

I'm not sure about the profile. Please take a look at the commits and you 
should question and discuss that change separately on TECHNICAL merits.

Otherwise you going to start yet another heated thread.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:39 PM, jus...@classsoftware.com wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Harbs I see you have gone ahead (or rather I assume it was you so apologies 
> if it wasn't) and modified the default Flex profile. As discussed in this 
> thread that was not the right way to do this and there needs to some 
> documentation and discussion around this before we make changes. As Dave 
> suggested I will document the changes to the rules in a wiki so we can 
> discuss (if needed) and implement.
> 
> Can you please revert the changes the to rules you have made. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 5:22 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> If you make a change to fix technical debt then you should also assure that 
>> both existing tests pass and if no tests exist then tests are added and 
>> proper.
> 
> I’m all for more tests. However should this apply to any changes anyone makes 
> for any reason OR only changes I make?

It applies to making other than the most minimal changes due to a sonar report. 
Obviously trivial changes like the ; but not the === require discussion.

Think of it like this if someone makes a commit you would not revert without 
giving them an opportunity to do it first.

So the suggestion from me is get approval for anything complex. It is the 
social thing to do.

> 
> I asking because taken literally this could possible end up being a situation 
> were any changes I make are vetoed due to low test coverage but other people 
> can make changes and ignore test coverage.

I see you asked directly about a standard else thread.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 4:22 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> - Do we care about code being commented out? I think not.
> 
> If we know why it was commented out sure. There’s always the concern is this 
> code possibly needed or not?

That is the concern, but it may be that the developer was making a speculative 
change. If I were cleaning then I would do one of two actions.

(a) Review the history of that change and see if the associated comments 
provide a reason.
(b) Ask the developer who made the change.

> 
>> - Does a semicolon matter?
> 
> It marked as a minor issue but it can cause issues when JS code is optimised 
> and/or minified. It’s easy and safe to fix.

While very likely safe I think that a question needs to be asked.

> 
>> - Is “:Object” really a critical issue?
> 
> Critical no (and it's not marked as such) and in some cases it’s quite 
> useful. Like all rules there are exceptions. Using a class with named 
> properties gives you type safety and performance benefits.

Well Object is always THE base class. It may not be known what the actual base 
class should be and it is certainly not flexible to always create a base class 
just to have a one to satisfy the rule. I think again it is a question that I 
think was already answered by Alex. IIRC he did not think these warranted a 
different approach.


Justin - If you have clear performance results then please document them in the 
wiki.

> 
>> - Is refactoring “complexity” really a huge problem
> 
> If we want easy to test/easy to maintain code then it can be yes.

This is a question of long term maintenance. My experience in an Agile 
environment is that these changes must be planned otherwise they become break 
fixes. Refactoring must be very carefully done. The author may have this 
complexity there for an unmentioned reason.

> 
>> - This one: Replace == with === : has been discussed and I think your making 
>> the change suggested broke things.
> 
> It didn’t break things in any major way, the tests passed, examples worked 
> and the application I’m working on worked. I believe there was one instance 
> that caused an issue for Harbs.

OK. Well I recall that and I also recall several people doubting that the 
change was needed or necessary. Perhaps both sides could be put on a wiki page.

> 
> There are some other useful rules in there I’ll document them.

Thanks. Do you know how to deactivate useless rules?

> 
>> Probably the best approach would be to collect these into a wiki page and 
>> then determine what conventions developers consider important. Once that is 
>> done change the sonar configuration and show true technical debt. I think 
>> that this is much less risky to the project and much less distraction to the 
>> team.
> 
> Sure I’ll go with that approach.

Wonderful.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thanks,
> Justin



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Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>>> IMO, even more important than technical debt is a test system and tests to 
>>> make sure any changes don't break anything.
>> 
>> That would include any changes to fix “technical debt”.
> 
> Or if fact any changes right?

If you make a change to fix technical debt then you should also assure that 
both existing tests pass and if no tests exist then tests are added and proper.

As Alex mentions various integration and automation (Selenium) tests also pass. 
In addition there is a.bonus if both Flex and FlexJS are covered.

Regards,
Dave


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Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Alex,

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> IMO, even more important than technical debt is a test system and tests to 
> make sure any changes don't break anything.

That would include any changes to fix “technical debt”.

> 
> I could be wrong, but I think our customers would rather have us spend our 
> time and energy on missing features like AMF right now.

I think that users or consumers is a better term than customers.

Missing features is always great.

If Justin’s itch is technical debt then I think he should at least follow a 
wiki approach and also address Harbs comment else thread. If he has people from 
his company do it then that is great too.

Didn’t the blind change from “==“ to “===“ already cause tests to break?

Best Regards,
Dave

> 
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
> 
> From: Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net<mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net>>
> Reply-To: "dev@flex.apache.org<mailto:dev@flex.apache.org>" 
> <dev@flex.apache.org<mailto:dev@flex.apache.org>>
> Date: Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 9:24 AM
> To: "dev@flex.apache.org<mailto:dev@flex.apache.org>" 
> <dev@flex.apache.org<mailto:dev@flex.apache.org>>
> Subject: Re: [FlexJS] technical debt
> 
> Hi Justin,
> 
> (I missed your double reply until I reviewed the thread before sending. This 
> caused me to remove part of this email.)
> 
> I looked at some of the major and minor Code Smells. I think that rather than 
> accepting the ActionScript conventions that Sonar provides that most of these 
> can be eliminated by resetting the rules to match this project’s ideas about 
> how Flex smells.
> 
> - Do we care about code being commented out? I think not.
> - Does a semicolon matter?
> - Is “:Object” really a critical issue?
> - Is refactoring “complexity” really a huge problem - Function has a 
> complexity of 14 which is greater than 10 authorized.
> - This one: Replace == with === : has been discussed and I think your making 
> the change suggested broke things.
> 
> Probably the best approach would be to collect these into a wiki page and 
> then determine what conventions developers consider important. Once that is 
> done change the sonar configuration and show true technical debt. I think 
> that this is much less risky to the project and much less distraction to the 
> team.
> 
> Only once Sonar rules are properly tuned is it a powerful tool for assuring 
> code quality. Until then it can be a nearly useless sink for scarce developer 
> time and a chance for “hair on fire” concern over “technical debt”.
> 
> I agree that like it is it could be a measure of usefulness for new 
> developers in a commercial situation.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> On Jul 5, 2017, at 11:53 PM, Justin Mclean 
> <jus...@classsoftware.com<mailto:jus...@classsoftware.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Dave I assume the case statement issue you referring to is is the last one in 
> this list [1]. It not a bug but style wise it’s a little odd and probably 
> should still be fixed.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. 
> https://builds.apache.org/analysis/component_issues/index?id=org.apache.flex.flexjs.framework%3Aflexjs-framework-parent#types=CODE_SMELL|severities=CRITICAL
> 



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Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

(I missed your double reply until I reviewed the thread before sending. This 
caused me to remove part of this email.)

I looked at some of the major and minor Code Smells. I think that rather than 
accepting the ActionScript conventions that Sonar provides that most of these 
can be eliminated by resetting the rules to match this project’s ideas about 
how Flex smells.

- Do we care about code being commented out? I think not.
- Does a semicolon matter?
- Is “:Object” really a critical issue?
- Is refactoring “complexity” really a huge problem - Function has a complexity 
of 14 which is greater than 10 authorized.
- This one: Replace == with === : has been discussed and I think your making 
the change suggested broke things.

Probably the best approach would be to collect these into a wiki page and then 
determine what conventions developers consider important. Once that is done 
change the sonar configuration and show true technical debt. I think that this 
is much less risky to the project and much less distraction to the team.

Only once Sonar rules are properly tuned is it a powerful tool for assuring 
code quality. Until then it can be a nearly useless sink for scarce developer 
time and a chance for “hair on fire” concern over “technical debt”.

I agree that like it is it could be a measure of usefulness for new developers 
in a commercial situation.

Regards,
Dave

> On Jul 5, 2017, at 11:53 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Dave I assume the case statement issue you referring to is is the last one in 
> this list [1]. It not a bug but style wise it’s a little odd and probably 
> should still be fixed.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. 
> https://builds.apache.org/analysis/component_issues/index?id=org.apache.flex.flexjs.framework%3Aflexjs-framework-parent#types=CODE_SMELL|severities=CRITICAL



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Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

You cut my previous reply which means I need to repeat.

You called out changes since 0.8. And I only looked at the change since in 
Sonar. I took about 5 minutes, a very superficial check.

Lots of TD should be explored carefully hopefully by the original developer.

I agree with the notion that these changes should be at the beginning of a 
cycle.

My point in general was the the recent changes do look pretty clean.

Let's see what the developers think.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 5, 2017, at 6:19 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> In the differential all 30 of the bugs are of the form:
>> 
>> Make this class “Event" override "Event.clone()” function
> 
> Which some are false positives as there’s a cloneEvent method. Note you can 
> mark them as such in the interface. I had already fixed a couple of these a 
> few weeks back.
> 
>> The singular code smell (Sonar says that flex smells very good indeed.)
> 
> Not sure where you seeing just 1 as I can see 13,100 and their are a 
> varieties of issues. Again some worth looking into and others not.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: [FlexJS] technical debt

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

In the differential all 30 of the bugs are of the form:

Make this class “Event" override "Event.clone()” function

All of the 133 vulnerabilities are of these forms:

Make this "public static" field const
Remove this use of the "trace" function.

The singular code smell (Sonar says that flex smells very good indeed.)

Last statement in this switch-clause should be an unconditional break

This looks like recent work. I’d say it looks pretty good and would be easy to 
address.

I agree with Justin that it is something that all devs should look at from time 
to time.

Regards,
Dave

> On Jul 5, 2017, at 4:24 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> If you take a look at this [1] you see that technical debt increased a bit 
> between the 0.8 and 0.9 releases. It would be good if we could reduce this.
> 
> While Sonar cube isn’t perfect, probably needs some tuning, and there are a 
> number of false positives in there it is trying to tell us something.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. https://builds.apache.org/analysis/overview?id=20942



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Re: [DISCUSS] Discuss Release Apache FlexJS 0.8.0 RC1

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 12:41 PM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> I'm confused.  Can I get a summary?
> 
> Are there some files that are being caught by RAT?  If so, what are they?
> 
> Are we sure the process should be that the RM should switch away from
> SNAPSHOT before the vote?  If a major problem is found in that RC,
> wouldn't we have deployed bad artifacts under the final version number and
> have to pull them back?  Or abandon that release version and use the next
> version number?

The Tomcat project will user version numbers. If a version fails then they 
advance to the next. They still produce changelings for the version that is not 
released. You can see the gory details for version 7 here: 
http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-7.0-doc/changelog.html

Regards,
Dave

> 
> IMO, the main thing folks want from Maven are the JARs which aren't an
> official ASF release anyway.  Seems like we should vote on a source
> package, then set any version numbers and have Maven build the final jars
> from there.  The differences in the source should only be in POMs and
> other configs right?
> 
> What am I missing?
> -Alex
> 
> On 6/12/17, 3:53 AM, "Christofer Dutz"  wrote:
> 
>> It should be between the Last call and opening the vote. It is equal to
>> “cutting the release candidate”.
>> 
>> So, the LAST CALL thread is finished and the RM writes that he’s going to
>> cut a release … AFTER THAT he does these steps and THEN he opens the vote
>> thread. I never said anything else than that.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> Am 12.06.17, 12:30 schrieb "piotrz" :
>> 
>>   Chris,
>> 
>>   I'm a bit confused. You have said that I shouldn't do this as part of
>>   VOTING, LAST CALL:
>> 
>>   "No,
>> 
>>   The removing the SNAPSHOT, tagging and setting the new version should
>> be,
>>   more or less, one step.
>>   "
>> 
>>   Now you are saying just opposite. So again when I should do this
>> (Last Call,
>>   Voting) step ?
>> 
>>   "1) In order to have a proper Maven release, the versions of the
>> maven build
>>   should be changed to “0.8.0” (omit the SNAPSHOT). "
>> 
>>   Piotr
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   -
>>   Apache Flex PMC
>>   piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com
>>   --
>>   View this message in context:
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapache-fle
>> x-development.247.n4.nabble.com%2FDISCUSS-Discuss-Release-Apache-FlexJ
>> S-0-8-0-RC1-tp62274p62341.html=02%7C01%7C%7C764b156340ed4161762808d4b
>> 1813b7a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636328616008847001
>> ata=pnXSK31V8HvCRI9NlEVlGD0SgCczOCQYlw0PyoVZnfQ%3D=0
>>   Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>> 
>> 
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS] Discuss Release Apache FlexJS 0.8.0 RC1

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

> On Jun 12, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> Are there some files that are being caught by RAT?  If so, what are they?
> 
> I mentioned them in my vote email. [1] 3 patch files don’t have ASF headers.

We may need to revisit the project’s preferred way of doing this. From what I 
recall of the legal-discuss along with hallway discussions at Apachecon there 
is more than one way.

Justin - you did state that you consider this acceptable for this release and 
that we can clean it up for the next. I suggest that we take care of this 
immediately after the release.

> 
>> IMO, the main thing folks want from Maven are the JARs which aren't an
>> official ASF release anyway.  Seems like we should vote on a source
>> package, then set any version numbers and have Maven build the final jars
>> from there.  The differences in the source should only be in POMs and
>> other configs right?
> 
> Which is IMO not permitted by ASF release policy as the binary connivance 
> releases need to be made from the tagged source release. [2] (and elsewhere)

AFAIK this is correct. Renaming the artifact is ok but the convenience binaries 
should always be made from the tagged release. Note that different versions of 
JAVA on different OS may produce slightly differing Jars from the same source 
code. We will need to trust the release manager who signs with their personal 
key that this is correctly done.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 
> 1. 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/47ad4369d92791280f8cdfb0d1e208cafb7d58860f0f743b54a76599@%3Cdev.flex.apache.org%3E
>  
> 
> 2. http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#compiled-packages 
> 
> 



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Re: [FlexJS] odd license headers on some files

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Folks,

I had a great time meeting most of you last week. Alex I met some 3 years ago.

Justin can you please provide a precise diff explaining what is off with these 
headers? Also how many files.

Alex - are we really close to cutting a release?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 24, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Alex Harui  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5/24/17, 10:35 AM, "Josh Tynjala"  wrote:
>> 
>> Alex,
>> 
>> If Justin were proposing these changes to an RC, I would strongly agree
>> with you that it should wait. However, I thought we all agreed that Last
>> Call was the better time to get things in that we want to get in. It feels
>> to me like you're moving the goal posts to now say that it should wait
>> until after the release. I was frustrated by Justin proposing changes in
>> the RC before, but as we're still in Last Call, I'm going to defend him.
> 
> Last call was sent out on 4/21.  It is now 5/24.  So sure, it is true that
> the window is still open to find issues, but the idea was to find
> important issues and deal with other issues later.  How does fixing these
> headers help the community?  I would discourage all non-critical commits
> at this time.  Now that we know that RAT won't find this kind of error,
> each of us will now have to take time to make sure we have the right
> header before committing new files.  And we will have to at least think
> about it when we review new commits from others.  That seems very wasteful
> to me.  Maybe we'd be past "Last Call" and into RC if we spent our time on
> getting the examples to work instead of this other stuff.
> 
>> 
>> I understand that you think licensing details aren't as important as other
>> things, so it's cool if you don't want to focus on that part as we get
>> close to a release. However, that's the itch Justin seems to want to
>> scratch, and I don't think it's fair of you to tell him what he should
>> think is important. It should take little more than a glance for the PMC
>> to
>> review his changes. You often bring up how we should trust the intent of a
>> contributor, and you could trust that he knows what to change for
>> licensing
>> since that's something he knows well. Looking at all 220 headers
>> individually seems unnecessary.
> 
> Justin is great at finding what isn't expected.  But his track record for
> correctly deciding what action to take is not very good.  Just review
> legal-discuss archives.  I'd list them all out, but don't want to spend
> more time on it.  In this case, there is no debate about what to do, just
> when.  There are so many more things that we can do now to make the
> community better.  Burning out committers and release managers is not
> helpful to the community.
> 
>> 
>>> Instead, we are discussing headers, trace statements, inlining
>> constants and empty constructors.
>> 
>> I don't see why we can't start thinking about things for the next release
>> as we're finishing up the current release. Plus, ApacheCon just happened,
>> and we're all buzzing with ideas after meeting together, so the mailing
>> list activity is up. Let's not discourage the extra enthusiasm from our
>> contributors right now. This enthusiasm is something good for potential
>> new
>> contributors to see.
> 
> Absolutely want to see more discussion about the 9 or 13 points from
> ApacheCon.  I don't agree that discussing trace statements, inlining
> constants, and empty constructors will bring in more contributors.
> Getting quality releases out encourages more contributors.  Getting some
> production apps out there will bring in more contributors.  These big
> things help me make a case to keep working on FlexJS.  I'll be really sad
> if I have to stop working full-time on FlexJS because we spent all of this
> time on other things.
> 
> -Alex
> 
> 
>> 
>> - Josh
>> 
>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Alex Harui 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Technically, I am not blocking.  I am saying that there is a better time
>>> to do this change and we need to focus on the big picture and spend
>>> energy
>>> on things that matter.  This topic could have been as simple as an email
>>> from Justin that said "hey, I just noticed we have inconsistent headers.
>>> I would like to clean that up after the release and branch merges."
>>> 
>>> Instead, the email thread was several posts long already by the time I
>>> had
>>> to read through it.  Harbs put down his work to at least wonder why one
>>> of
>>> his files was named.  Then there will be the time for Justin to actually
>>> make these changes.  Who is volunteering to review the change?  As PMC
>>> members we are all supposed to be watching the commits.
>>> 
>>> And you get more of what you encourage.  I am trying to encourage folks
>>> to
>>> take stuff that isn't that important and find it early by watching the
>>> commits, or put it off to the next release.  That has been the advice of
>>> several experienced Apache 

Re: [LAST CALL] Release FlexJS/FalconJX 0.8.0

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

If the VOTE is in progress then announce that. It will be a great way to show 
how the process works. Be open.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 14, 2017, at 8:16 AM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> But we do have options.  One is to announce the release on Thursday but
>> tell folks to wait another N hours before installing.  Another is to
>> shorten the 72 hours to something less.  And another is not to announce at
>> all.
> 
> +1 for not announcing it or rather saying we are working on it and it will be 
> out soon. IMO There is no need to rush here.
> 
> Given that some of PMC are busy at ApacheCon it may take more than 72 hours 
> to get 3 +1 votes anyway.
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: [LAST CALL] Release FlexJS/FalconJX 0.8.0

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

I’ve followed this issue mostly on legal-discuss. Let’s not let the perfect be 
the enemy of the good.

If you will be at Apachecon in Miami next week I would like to discuss this 
licensing disagreement with you face to face with or without adult beverages. I 
arrive Monday evening and leave Friday morning.

Regards,
Dave

> On May 11, 2017, at 1:05 AM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> This stuff is so non-important.
> 
> I disagree. This stuff is important. ASF takes licensing seriously. People 
> use our software because of that.
> 
> If this is so unimportant why are you not letting make changes and have gone 
> as far as to say you will veto changes?
> 
>> Why must we keep spending time on this?
> 
> Because unresolved issues in previous releases and licensing issue need be 
> addressed by the PMC as per ASF policy.
> 
> There is a really easy fix that make this at worse a documentation issue 
> rather than a licensing one why are you so reluctant to fix this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Justin

Re: AW: [FLEXJS] FlexJS Event in San Francisco

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Alex,

I would drive down from Sonoma County for this.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 5, 2016, at 9:49 AM, Jason Guild  wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex:
> 
> I would be interested in attending.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jason
> 
>> So far, nobody has said they are interested in attending, although I did
>> send this after west coast business hours. ;)
> 

Re: TLF Editor / Docx compatible / PDF Export

[Dave Fisher]

There are some APache projects to consider.

Apache PDFBox - pdfbox.apache.org
APache POI - poi.apache.org for docx.

You could also take a look an the newly incubating 
corinthia.incubator.apache.org

Regards,
Dave

On Feb 15, 2015, at 3:55 AM, Leonardo Sapucaia wrote:

 HI,
 
 A couple years ago I started to develop a TLF text editor with many
 features found in MS Word, as header, footer, footnotes, and that could
 export PDF files.
 
 Despite finding few examples and open source projects, necessary for me to
 be an area that had very little experience, I could code a reasonable
 editor allowing pagination, headers and footers.
 
 In the meantime I had to devote myself to other projects and I could not
 quite finish the editor. Features such as footnotes and the generation of
 PDFs were left unfinished.
 
 Now I have to resume the project and since a long time passed, I wonder if
 there is already some example or project that anyone here could show me.
 Some reference so that I can use.
 
 Need to generate PDF files from the TLF code (and may need to generate docx
 too). Must also create a reference (marker) in text positions within the
 TLF code (maybe a custom element?) which are linked to topics within the
 footnotes block.
 
 Could someone enlighten me?
 
 Cheers,
 
 Leonardo Sapucaia

Re: The Player, a case for an independent Flash Player

[Dave Fisher]

I have an historical note about Apple and Adobe.

Adobe would not exist without Apple and the generous $1,000 Postscript license 
fee for every LaserWriter that Apple paid Adobe in the mid-1980s.

Adobe was originally a Mac shop. 

Adobe switched to a Windows shop in the early 1990s. I think we can trace the 
break to that era.

I've heard that Bill Gates didn't like Adobe either and you could never give 
him a PDF

Of course it is ancient history now ... it is so 20th century.

On Feb 11, 2015, at 7:43 AM, f...@dfguy.us wrote:

 Good stuff, yes all of us who actually knew flex and action script knew all 
 the claims in the thoughts letter weren't actually true at the time. Lies! :) 
 I did not know however that iPhone use the QuickTime plugin! Ha! Also, more 
 security risks in Firefox, chrome and IE, and OSX than Flash, that's 
 surprising.
 
 David
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Fréderic Cox coxfrede...@gmail.com
 To: dev@flex.apache.org
 Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 9:10 AM
 Subject: Re: The Player, a case for an independent Flash Player
 
 That is a great document Jude
 
 On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:54 AM, jude flexcapaci...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I came across some more misinformation and decided to keep a document of
 rebuttals and other info to refer back to when attempting to educate
 people. I've posted it here,
 
 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UYbS1t6FInwqC1luYceYLzXDnQJe3L0DSQFi7KlIa5g/edit?usp=docslist_api
 
 I'm trying to keep it unbiased. I need to add a pro's and con's section to
 it.
 
 Feel free to use it and add to it (contact me for edit permissions).
 
 
 On Tuesday, January 20, 2015, Stephane Beladaci 
 adobeflexengin...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 
 This is not an official Adobe answer as I am not and have never been on
 the player team, plus Adobe has a policy of not releasing staffing
 numbers.
 
 
 Noted, and agreed... that is why I am getting those number using other
 methods :)
 
 
 Nick may have been right at one point in time when there was no
 Adobe AIR and the Player only had to work on Mac and Windows without
 GPUs,
 but OTOH, I am pretty sure that re-creating the Adobe runtimes from
 scratch today would be a significant effort as the number of devices,
 operating system versions, GPUs and other platform differences would
 make
 hardware abstraction a huge task.
 
 
 At this point I am not trying to define whether it is going to be easy
 task
 or not, the harder I am told it will be, the more motivated I am to find
 a
 way :) At this point what I am trying to define is
 
 1/ how much we can reuse from what has been made open source over the
 years
 2/ what are the vital IP we will need to get from third parties and who
 are
 those parties
 3/ how much will need to be engineered on top of 1 and 2 to get a viable
 player running AS3 modern RIA on desktop browsers and mobile browsers.
 
 
 
 
 IMO, that was a goal of the Open Screen
 Project: to get the hardware and os vendors to take on the abstraction
 load.  And I believe there are still terms-of-use issues around
 interpreting byte code on some of these platforms.
 
 
 Funny you mention OSP, Adobe has abandoned the trademarks and I acquired
 the. ThePlayer will be supported by the Open Screen Project as part of
 the
 Open Screen Foundation. The domain name will be openscreen.org. I am
 also
 in the process of reaching out to every companies involved in the Adobe
 effort, starting with all CEO featured in this video:
 
 Top CEOs Advocate for Adobe Flash
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CwI227m-hs
 
 

Re: AW: JAR in TLF svn/git mirror

[Dave Fisher]

For Apache Flex you are the Apache Legal department. The ASF counts on projects 
to do due diligence.

On Jan 24, 2015, at 1:21 AM, Christofer Dutz wrote:

 Well I think it wasn't completely skipped.
 When I made the BlazeDS testsuite run again. I a lot of files were missing. 
 When looking into the old Adobe repos I could see these were all files with 
 license headers of individual contributors (This code is property of XYZ 
 Telecom) and similarly license related stuff. I had to re-write some of that 
 missing code and remove a hand full of tests (Can't test if the ressources 
 the tests use are gone).
 
 So checking has been done. And it seems to have been good enough for the 
 Apache legal department ...
 
 Chris
 
 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: Justin Mclean [mailto:jus...@classsoftware.com] 
 Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Januar 2015 07:55
 An: dev@flex.apache.org
 Betreff: Re: JAR in TLF svn/git mirror
 
 Hi,
 
 I took care of the stuff Justin found. Thanks for finding it.  Justin 
 if you find more, you can probably just delete it yourself.
 
 That was from a five minute look.We really need a full IP check on both Blaze 
 DS and TLF repos as it's seems this important step may of been skipped. I 
 would have concerns of release anything that contains anything form TLF and 
 Blaze DS because of this.  I doubt rat even been run over the full repos 
 given there's binary fines in there.
 
 Justin

Re: JAR in TLF svn/git mirror

[Dave Fisher]

If it is any Category A including Public Domain at 
http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html you may put it in an Apache 
repository.

But - I mean dude!

http://www.metrolyrics.com/go-ask-alice-lyrics-jefferson-airplane.html

On Jan 23, 2015, at 4:53 PM, Justin Mclean wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Also swfs here:
 https://github.com/apache/flex-tlf/tree/develop/libs
 
 And while we're at it. This is got good IP wise:
 https://github.com/apache/flex-tlf/blob/develop/sdk/samples/flex/Logo.jpg
 
 And this:
 https://github.com/apache/flex-tlf/blob/develop/test/testFiles/assets/ARIAL_FONT.swf
 
 In fact several things under here:
 https://github.com/apache/flex-tlf/tree/develop/test/testFiles/assets
 
 For instance we probably don't have permission to redistribute:
 https://github.com/apache/flex-tlf/blob/develop/test/testFiles/assets/image1.jpg
  
 
 And last I cheaked Alice in wonder land wasn't under an Apache license :-)
 https://github.com/apache/flex-tlf/blob/develop/test/testFiles/markup/tlf/alice.xml
 
 Looks like the TLF code in SVN needs a thorough IP review.
 
 Thanks,
 Justin

Re: [DISCUSS] Release Apache Flex 4.14.0

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Guys - please. If there is a legitimate question about a given file's 
provenance then please do make that query in private or in public. Find the 
commit in the log, watch commit emails and call for it at the time.

If there is a singular file here or there that is problematic then it is a 
judgement call, but it should not automatically hold a release. This is 
particularly so if a prior release contained that same artifact. The PMC shows 
it's diligence in how it treats these questions, but it is only a blocker if 
there is a large IP issue. Think of the process like cups and saucers. A little 
spill in the saucer is ok.

You guys have tuned up the RAT report? You know what's in and not? Again follow 
the commits ML.

Sticklers like Justin should be watching the commits ML. That is the most 
appropriate time to exercise IP due diligence. Release time is the worst time. 
Diligence should be done up front.

Regards,
Dave

On Jan 24, 2015, at 12:07 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:

 HI,
 
 Donation procedures were followed correctly.  Could some file have incorrect 
 provenance?  Sure.
 
 I think it a little more than some files. If a casual glance in 5 minutes can 
 pick up some issues it's quite likely there's more issues there.
 
 This is a formal request to have the PMC review those repos, I really can't 
 see why that the PMC  would not be willing to do that given it takes little 
 effect, the Apache policy around this and once done it will give more 
 confidence in the IP provenance of those files. This stuff is sort of 
 important :-)
 
 Folks have complained to me off-list that the tone and volume of emails that 
 result
 from these quests tend to discourage their participation
 
 There should be no need for off list communication, but if someone has a 
 legitimate issue they email the private list or me personally if they want.
 
 Justin
 

Re: git commit: [flex-sdk] [refs/heads/develop] - FLEX-34222 fix selection reverting to previous typed values when second value (not in list) is entered

[Dave Fisher]

Nicely done gentlemen!

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 13, 2014, at 3:37 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala bigosma...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Done reverting.
 
 Also re-opened https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX-34222
 
 Thanks,
 Om
 
 
 On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:15 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala bigosma...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com
 wrote:
 
 Anyone wants to revert go for it
 
 I will take care of it in a few hours.
 
 Thanks,
 Om
 

Re: [VOTE] Accept Adobe Donation

[Dave Fisher]

+1 binding. Awesome sauce!

Alex is this coming in as a software grant?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

 On Apr 17, 2014, at 3:32 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
 
 Please vote to accept the donation of the following Flex-related code and
 documentation from Adobe Systems, Inc.
 
 The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
 
 Thanks,
 -Alex
 
 In the donation is:
 
 
 1. Several Flex articles from the ADC web-site.
 2. An updated version of the FDB debugger that contains support for
 ActionScript Workers
 3. The FlexPMD source code
 4. The Mobile Trader demo application
 5. The specification for the MXML language
 6. An XML merging utility source code from the Flex QA team.
 7. The Squiggly spell-checker source code
 8. The Tour De Flex application source code
 9. The source code for a prototype of a code coverage utility that I wrote.
 
 
 Here are links to the ADC articles:
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/videotraining.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/testdrive.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/testdrivemobile.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/mobile-development-flex-flashbuil
 der.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flex3and4_differences.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/itemrenderers_pt1.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/employee-directory-android-flex.h
 tml
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/mobile-skinning-part1.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flex-mobile-performance-checklist
 .html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flashbuilder_blazeds.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/spark_layouts.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flex-mobile-development-tips-tric
 ks-pt4.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flex4_skinning.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flex4_viewport_scrolling.html
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/flex4_effects_pt1.html
 
 FlexPMD is currently on Open@Adobe here:
 
 http://sourceforge.net/adobe/flexpmd/home/Home/
 
 The Mobile Trader demo application is described here:
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/samples/mobile-trader-application.html
 
 And here: http://coenraets.org/blog/2011/03/flex-on-the-ipad/
 
 The XML merge utility is a small set of files that should have been in the
 BlazeDS donation
 
 Squiggly is described here:
 
 http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/squiggly/
 
 Tour De Flex is described here:
 
 http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/tourdeflex.html
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: Draft email to committers

[Dave Fisher]

I think the note should be a call to action without comments on people's time 
commitment or how hard it is to find time, etc. it is to be expected that 
Committers will fade away and new ones replace old.

There is a reason that merit does not expire. We always welcome people back and 
gladly.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 16, 2014, at 8:54 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
 
 Hmm.  I still don't like the first line.  The it's been hardŠ assumes
 that folks think it has been hard. Also, please propose a subject as well.
 Maybe Apache Flex Progress Report?
 
 How about for the first two lines:
 A lot has been going on in Apache Flex in recent months.  In case you
 haven't been following on the dev list,  Here's a brief overview of the
 current state of the project and milestones since becoming a top level
 project.
 
 
 And I would add to the list of areas where we are looking for help:
 -We need folks to help develop and test the FlexJS and Falcon code bases.
 
 Thanks,
 -Alex
 
 On 3/16/14 6:28 PM, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Here's my second draft. It's now intended to be sent directly to all
 committers.
 
 --- start draft ---
 Hi Apache Flex Committer,
 
 and it¹s been hard to keep up to date with all of the news.
 
 Here's a brief overview of the current state of the project and
 milestones since becoming a top level project.
 - We're released 5 versions of the Flex SDK under Apache.
 - Work have progressed on FlexJS to a point we are nearing an alpha
 release
 - We're attracted more committers and PMC members to the project
 - There's been 30,000 installs of the Flex SDK over the last 7 months
 - 4.12 had 1,500 install in the first week after it's release
 - 4.11 had 15,000 installs
 - 4.10 had 11,000 installs
 - The SDK has had significant speed and memory performance improvements
 since the 4.8 release
 - 450 JIRA  bugs have been resolved since the 4.8 release
 - The flex.apage.org website has had over 1,000,000 page views and
 450,000 visitors
 - Serval PMC members will be giving talks at Apache Con in Denver
 - The 360|Flex conference is back on this year
 - There will be a new release of FlexUnit in the near future
 
 We know you are busy and may not have the time to help out the project
 and that's fine.
 But if you do have a little spare time on your hands and want to become a
 little more involved in
 contributing to Apache Flex there¹s several areas where we are looking
 for help.
 - More issues are being submitted by users in JIRA and need attention
 - We still have outstanding bugs from when Adobe donated the SDK
 - We need to update support for modern mobile OS versions, work is
 underway on this
 - We need more examples for the community showcase
 - We need people to help localise the installer and SDK into other locales
 
 If you can help out with any of these tasks or in any other way it would
 be much appreciated.
 
 Thanks,
 Apache Flex PMC Team
 -- end draft --
 
 The intention is to inform people who may be out of the loop and
 encourage them (if they have the free time and the inclination) to help
 out.
 
 Jeffry if you're still against this and there's no word changes that make
 it acceptable to you I'll give up and move onto something else.
 
 Thanks,
 Justin
 

Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Flex chair

[Dave Fisher]

Exactly it is a time for friends and family  here in the US.

I also think that self-nomination may be an issue as well. I'm not sure how I 
want to respond to thAt part.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2013, at 3:45 AM, Jeffry Houser jef...@dot-com-it.com wrote:

 
 I don't care myself.  My impression is that many of the folks on this list 
 are US based; and you started the conversation at the start of a major US 
 Holiday [Thanksgiving].  That may have contributed to the lack of a response. 
  I, myself, have been running non-stop for 6 days [and I have two more before 
 I can look up].
 
 You may consider waiting until mid-week and giving the thread another poke.
 
 On 12/1/2013 1:04 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Not exactly a huge response of this so I'd assume most people don't care one 
 way or another. Anyone else have something to say?
 
 Justin
 
 
 -- 
 Jeffry Houser
 Technical Entrepreneur
 http://www.jeffryhouser.com
 203-379-0773
 

Re: [MENTORS] Video Chat and the Apache Way

[Dave Fisher]

On Oct 3, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Alex Harui wrote:

 Hi Mentors,
 
 There's a thread on the dev list where a group is proposing to meet and have 
 video chats to discuss user interaction topics.  They will post recordings of 
 these chats on the list.  I expressed concern that this may not be the Apache 
 Way given that a scheduled chat can leave out folks in certain time zones and 
 that video is hard to quickly summarize or skim.
 
 Your thoughts?

As long as plans and action items are brought to the dev list - this is ok. 

Hackathons and Apachecons are live events where people talk and these are fine.

Regards,
Dave

 
 Thanks,
 -Alex

Re: Flex Mobile DataGrid donation submission

[Dave Fisher]

A Software Grant is all that is needed from Systar. If this donation is 
substantial the incubator has a form: http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/

The ICLA is needed for Maurice to work within the project. It protects the ASF.

The CCLA is for Maurice's protection, it acknowledges that they know he is 
working on Apache Flex on hours. It is evidence that he really has the rights 
to the work he may contribute to the foundation.

Regards,
Dave

On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:23 PM, Frédéric THOMAS wrote:

 From what I understand, he developed that component at and for Systar which
 agreed him to donate the code to Apache Flex, so, I guess, the Grant
 Software is need as this code is owned by Systar and the ICLA from Maurice
 too because it does the donation process (preparing the code, ...).
 
 -Fred
 
 -Message d'origine-
 De : Justin Mclean [mailto:jus...@classsoftware.com] 
 Envoyé : mercredi 25 septembre 2013 00:19
 À : dev@flex.apache.org
 Objet : Re: Flex Mobile DataGrid donation submission 
 
 Hi,
 
 Finally, a Software Grant will have to be executed.
 
 Wouldn't an ICLA and/or CLA be enough?
 
 Thanks,
 Justin

Re: [DRAFT] Apache Flex September 2013 Report

[Dave Fisher]

On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:40 PM, Justin Mclean wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Mailing list traffic is so high that folks have stopped reading emails.
 Traffic has actually decreasing for the last 7 months month on month so not 
 sure that's correct [1]. I think it's just that some people prefer forums.
 
 Currently we've had about 10 people sign up to the dev list and 20 people 
 sign up to the user list. I expected more but perhaps people don't know about 
 it.
 
 Since the 4.10 release we've seen:
 - Significant web visits increase (especially for the week after the release 
 up 100% or more)
 - More JIRA activity (more bugs raised than resolved however)
 - More activity on the users mailing list (flex-users markmail archive is 
 broken so I can't see exact numbers)

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/flex-users/ - looks to be up.
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/flex-dev/ - looks like vacations in 
August and September picking up.

 
 Might also mention:
 - showcase idea and user submissions
 - CI improvements
 - 4.10 release candidate vote issue
 - 4.10 linux support
 - decreasing number of active committers [2]

Do you think the number of committers is a threat to the project?

Regards,
Dave


 
 Thanks,
 Justin
 
 1.http://markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.flex-dev
 2. http://www.ohloh.net/p/ApacheFlex/contributors/summary

Re: [DRAFT] Apache Flex September 2013 Report

[Dave Fisher]

On Sep 9, 2013, at 5:03 PM, Justin Mclean wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Do you think the number of committers is a threat to the project?
 
 I think it's a concern and may make further releases harder.  It's something 
 that needs to be watched and users/people on dev list encouraged more to take 
 part and become committers.

+1. We can take this up on private immediately ;-)

 
 Thanks,
 Justin

Re: [DRAFT] Apache Flex September 2013 Report

[Dave Fisher]

Let' not read too much into the fact that committers take vacations during 
their summer - and that summer is a different time of year in the southern 
hemisphere.

On Sep 9, 2013, at 6:53 PM, Dasa Paddock wrote:

 GitHub has some good tools for this too. For example, this shows that there 
 were six committers to the flex-sdk repo in July and August:
 https://github.com/apache/flex-sdk/graphs/contributors?from=2013-06-30to=2013-08-31type=c
 
 --Dasa
 
 On Sep 9, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 It's looking at both the git and svn repos but is missing a few git repos eg 
 falcon. 
 
 I don't think the numbers are 100% correct but do give a fair indication, 
 and I think it fair to say there are less active committers for the Flex SDK 
 project than there were 6 months ago.
 
 Justin
 

Re: Request change to Flex Notification scheme

[Dave Fisher]

Alex,

Infra requested another JIRA ticket. A different person handles email from JIRA.

Regards,
Dave

On Jun 18, 2013, at 3:37 PM, Alex Harui wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Infra has created a new mailing list called issues@flex.a.o for JIRA email 
 notifications for the Apache Flex project.  Can you update our notification 
 scheme accordingly?  Is it possible to have replies go to dev@flex.a.o?
 
 Thanks,
 -Alex

Re: [PROPOSAL] Moving JIRA emails to a new list

[Dave Fisher]

A standard action would be to create commits@ and issues@ MLs and move both git 
commits and JIRA issues off of the dev list.

Some of the PMC will need to subscribe to these and pay attention to the 
changing codebase.

Regards,
Dave

On May 28, 2013, at 11:32 AM, OmPrakash Muppirala wrote:

 Okay, moving to a new thread.
 
 Do we need a vote for this or is there sufficient consensus in the
 community?
 
 We dont want to lose people because of all the spam that gets generated by
 the JIRA emails.  That should be a big priority for us.
 
 The proposal is:
 
 1.  Create a list: j...@flex.apache.org.
 2.  All JIRA emails generated by
 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLEX will
 go to j...@flex.apache.org
 3.  No JIRA emails will be sent to dev@flex.apache.org
 4.  We add all committers and PMC members to the j...@flex.apache.org list
 5.  When a new committer/PMC member is inducted, we add them to the
 j...@flex.apache.org as one of the setup activities.
 
 Any comments/suggestions?
 
 Thanks,
 Om
 
 On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Erik de Bruin e...@ixsoftware.nl wrote:
 
 +1 on the JIRA on another list, do we need a vote on that, or can we
 just ask INFRA for it?
 
 Maybe this discussion should be in a separate thread, however...
 
 EdB
 
 
 
 On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski nicho...@spoon.as
 wrote:
 I would prefer JIRA activity to be on another list.  I've heard from
 quite
 a few people in my User Group that they dropped off dev@ people of the
 noise of JIRA.   I think those of us who want to know what is committed
 will subscribe to those (plus, it makes filtering those messages into a
 separate folder easier ;P  )
 
 -Nick
 
 
 On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
 
 
 
 On 5/28/13 10:25 AM, Greg Reddin gred...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
 
 
 Greg, do you think donations like these need to have a goal of being
 integrated with Apache Flex or becoming its own project?  Personally,
 I'd
 be ok with Apache Flex being a warehouse of all kinds of Flex-related
 code
 even if there is no active development for it.
 
 
 There's a couple of things to consider here:
 
 1) The board does not favor umbrella projects. Jakarta was an
 umbrella
 project and it contained (at one time) Struts, Tomcat, Commons, JMeter,
 and
 a whole bunch of Java-related projects. It became clear that the
 Jakarta
 community was too fragmented to get consensus so it spun off all those
 projects into TLPs. That could easily start to happen here.
 That would make sense for Jakarta, especially if there was active
 development on all of those pieces.  I'm not sure that will be the case
 here.  I think there's a good chance that these application frameworks
 may
 not have much activity.
 
 For me, incubation was so much work that it seems easier to take these
 code donations and see if a community forms around it and then spin it
 off
 than going through the whole
 proposal/initial-committers/mentors/infra-setup/graduation process.
 
 
 2) This mailing list is already too high-traffic to follow.
 Practically,
 we
 could probably already split up the Flex project into multiple
 projects.
 It
 seems to me that folks are starting to gel around different efforts,
 like
 getting new releases of the SDK, vs. compilers, etc. It could be that
 we
 need to form new PMCs or it could be that we just need to enact
 sub-projects. But we have to be careful with sub-projects to avoid
 point 1
 above.
 What are your thoughts on just having more mailing lists?  We toyed with
 the notion of having all JIRA activity on a different list.  I haven't
 looked at the stats, but Erik and I haven't done much
 Falcon/FalconJX/FlexJS work over the last two weeks and I'm not sure
 there's been less activity on the dev list.
 
 -Alex
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Ix Multimedia Software
 
 Jan Luykenstraat 27
 3521 VB Utrecht
 
 T. 06-51952295
 I. www.ixsoftware.nl
 

Re: [DISCUSS}[VOTE] Use GitHub based Whiteboard

[Dave Fisher]

Hi,

A nit - shouldn't The list moderator for comm...@apache.org actually be A 
list moderator for comm...@flex.apache.org

Regards,
Dave

On May 21, 2013, at 12:57 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala wrote:

 Hi,
 
 Here is the proposal [1]
 
 Here is [DISCUSS] thread [2]
 
 Please vote as follows:
 
 +1 (Approve)
 -1 (Don't approve) with a reason
 0 (Don't care)
 
 Also denote binding if you are a PMC member.
 
 Thanks in advance,
 Om
 
 [1]
 https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Proposal+-+Github+based+Whiteboard
 [2] http://markmail.org/thread/vxmvhzgnonxg2hxa

Re: CS Extensions

[Dave Fisher]

If this would be indesign to html5. That would be very cool.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 15, 2013, at 2:45 PM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote:

 I just asked Olav Kvern who's done a bunch of path work for InDesign and 
 Illustrator and he's okay with donating his work to this project. That should 
 help jump-start things very nicely!
 
 
 On Apr 15, 2013, at 9:17 PM, OmPrakash Muppirala wrote:
 
 Drawscript looks good, except that it writes to actionscript/javascript
 directly.  I dont think that it is a good idea necessarily.
 In the case of JS, it is geared towards drawing on the Canvas element.
 Problem is that anything drawn on the canvas immediately loses hitTest,
 accessibility,etc.
 
 Thanks,
 Om
 
 On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 DrawScript looks cool. I would not hold my breath on getting the source
 donated, but if someone wants to try, that would be cool.
 
 On Apr 15, 2013, at 8:37 PM, jude wrote:
 
 I'm all for this! I think we should at least attempt to get the source to
 the current FXG export extensions or have they been donated already?
 Also,
 check out DrawScript http://drawscri.pt.
 
 
 On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Harbs harbs.li...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I'd like to start that project to export FXG from creative suite apps.
 
 Some questions:
 1) Should I start this on a personal github account, or have we settled
 on
 something else?
 2) CS Extensions have dependencies on a number of Adobe swcs. How do we
 handle the project vis a vis Apache's policies and binaries? I don't
 think
 those dependencies can be included…
 

Re: [DISCUSS] How do we want to handle Whiteboard?

[Dave Fisher]

On Apr 8, 2013, at 10:17 PM, Om wrote:

 On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Dave Fisher w...@apache.org wrote:
 
 This discussion seems familiar. Justin has the ASF viewpoint for the most
 part. Talk to infra and David Nalley about the issues in expanding out to
 github.
 
 Regards,
 Dave
 
 
 Before I bother Infra about this, do you think you can point me to some
 past discussion about this?

The discussion was many months ago on the infra lists. I don't recall if it was 
public or private.

The gist is that this PMC is responsible for keeping the IP in shape and doing 
the work in the open.

The support of GIT has come a long way by Infra. You should ask because there 
may or may not yet be a document that discusses how far to go.

If github is broken then please go to Infra to ask how the project can help.

Regards,
Dave


 
 Thanks,
 Om
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:35 PM, Om bigosma...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Think we may be missing the point here there's nothing to stop a
 committer
 from using github for their own experiments now, but if that code is
 eventually donated into the Flex project it would need to:
 
 1) Any contributors who have a made a large contribution have signed a
 ICLA and agree to this code being donated. Just having an ICLA signed
 may
 not be enough as it may not been clear that the intent was to move the
 code
 to Apache Flex. So in git hub are all contributors easily identified and
 contactable?
 Notifying the contributer when they send a pull request to a
 committer's
 whiteboard project should serve exactly this purpose.
 
 
 2) Development should be in the open and all current committers notified
 of progress. At the very least discussion about the code need to take
 place
 on the development list (and not elsewhere ie in github) and all
 changes/diffs to the code need to mailed to commit mailing list.
 
 We will experiment with the organization settings to see if all this is
 doable.
 
 Thanks,
 Om
 
 
 
 Having the whiteboards in git hub would be no different.
 
 Thanks,
 Justin
 

Re: [DISCUSS] How do we want to handle Whiteboard?

[Dave Fisher]

This discussion seems familiar. Justin has the ASF viewpoint for the most part. 
Talk to infra and David Nalley about the issues in expanding out to github.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:35 PM, Om bigosma...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.comwrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Think we may be missing the point here there's nothing to stop a committer
 from using github for their own experiments now, but if that code is
 eventually donated into the Flex project it would need to:
 
 1) Any contributors who have a made a large contribution have signed a
 ICLA and agree to this code being donated. Just having an ICLA signed may
 not be enough as it may not been clear that the intent was to move the code
 to Apache Flex. So in git hub are all contributors easily identified and
 contactable?
 Notifying the contributer when they send a pull request to a committer's
 whiteboard project should serve exactly this purpose.
 
 
 2) Development should be in the open and all current committers notified
 of progress. At the very least discussion about the code need to take place
 on the development list (and not elsewhere ie in github) and all
 changes/diffs to the code need to mailed to commit mailing list.
 
 We will experiment with the organization settings to see if all this is
 doable.
 
 Thanks,
 Om
 
 
 
 Having the whiteboards in git hub would be no different.
 
 Thanks,
 Justin

Re: [VOTE] Accept Falcon into the Apache Incubator (was originally named Ivory)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi,

Does the Apache Flex project intend to have a product called Apache Falcon?

If so then someone ought to say so on gene...@i.ao

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2013, at 12:18 PM, Vinod Kumar Vavilapalli vino...@hortonworks.com 
wrote:

 +1 (non-binding)
 
 Thanks,
 +Vinod Kumar Vavilapalli
 
 On Mar 20, 2013, at 9:54 PM, Srikanth Sundarrajan wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Thanks for participating in the proposal discussion on Falcon
 (formerly Ivory). I'd like to call a VOTE for acceptance of Apache
 Falcon into the Incubator. I'll let the vote run till (Tue 3/26 6pm IST).
 
 [ ]  +1 Accept Apache Falcon into the Incubator
 [ ]  +0 Don't care.
 [ ]  -1 Don't accept Apache Falcon into the Incubator because...
 
 Full proposal is pasted at the bottom of this email, and the
 corresponding wiki is http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/FalconProposal.
 
 
 Only VOTEs from Incubator PMC members are binding, but all are welcome
 to express their thoughts.
 
 Thanks,
 Srikanth Sundarrajan
 = Falcon Proposal =
 
 == Abstract ==
 Falcon is a data processing and management solution for Hadoop
 designed for data motion, coordination of data pipelines, lifecycle
 management, and data discovery. Falcon enables end consumers to
 quickly onboard their data and its associated processing and
 management tasks on Hadoop clusters.
 
 == Proposal ==
 Falcon will enable easy data management via declarative mechanism for
 Hadoop. Users of Falcon platform simply define infrastructure
 endpoints, data sets and processing rules declaratively. These
 declarative configurations are expressed in such a way that the
 dependencies between these configured entities are explicitly
 described. This information about inter-dependencies between various
 entities allows Falcon to orchestrate and manage various data
 management functions.
 
 The key use cases that Falcon addresses are:
 * Data Motion
 * Process orchestration and scheduling
 * Policy-based Lifecycle Management
 * Data Discovery
 * Operability/Usability
 
 With these features it is possible for users to onboard their data
 sets with a comprehensive and holistic understanding of how, when and
 where their data is managed across its lifecycle. Complex functions
 such as retrying failures, identifying possible SLA breaches or
 automated handling of input data changes are now simple directives.
 All the administrative functions and user level functions are
 available via RESTful APIs. CLI is simply a wrapper over the RESTful
 APIs.
 
 == Background ==
 Hadoop and its ecosystem of products have made storing and processing
 massive amounts of data commonplace. This has enabled numerous
 organizations to gain valuable insights that they never could have
 achieved in the past. While it is easy to leverage Hadoop for
 crunching large volumes of data, organizing data, managing life cycle
 of data and processing data is fairly involved. This is solved
 adequately well in a classic data platform involving data warehouses
 and standard ETL (extract-transform-load) tools, but remains largely
 unsolved today. In addition to data processing complexities, Hadoop
 presents new sets of challenges and opportunities relating to
 management of data.
 
 Data Management on Hadoop encompasses data motion, process
 orchestration, lifecycle management, data discovery, etc. among other
 concerns that are beyond ETL. Falcon is a new data processing and
 management platform for Hadoop that solves this problem and creates
 additional opportunities by building on existing components within the
 Hadoop ecosystem (ex. Apache Oozie, Apache Hadoop DistCp etc.) without
 reinventing the wheel. Falcon has been in production at InMobi, going
 on its second year and has been managing hundreds of feeds and
 processes.
 
 Falcon is being developed by engineers employed with InMobi and
 Hortonworks. This platform addition will increase the adoption of
 Apache Hadoop by driving data management tractable for end users. We
 are therefore proposing to make Falcon an Apache open source project.
 
 == Rationale ==
 The Falcon project aims to improve the usability of Apache Hadoop. As
 a result Apache Hadoop will grow its community of users by increasing
 the places Hadoop can be utilized and the use cases it will solve. By
 developing Falcon in Apache we hope to gather a diverse community of
 contributors, helping to ensure that Falcon is deployable for a broad
 range of scenarios. Members of the Hadoop development community will
 be able to influence Falcon’s roadmap, and contribute to it. We
 believe having Falcon as part of the Apache Hadoop ecosystem will be a
 great benefit to all of Hadoop's users.
 
 == Current Status ==
 Falcon is widely deployed in production within InMobi and moving on to
 its second year. A version with a valuable set of features is
 developed by the list of initial committers and is hosted on github.
 
 === Meritocracy ===
 Our intent with this incubator proposal is to start building a diverse
 

Re: [MENTORS] Jenkins access

[Dave Fisher]

Your PMC Chair - Alex can do this.

Or Greg.

Regards,
Dave

On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:48 PM, Cyrill Zadra wrote:

 Hi mentors,
 
 Could you please give me access to Jenkins?
 My username is: czadra
 
 thx,
 cyrill

Re: Latest on FlexJS

[Dave Fisher]

You should certainly be able to share wiki page on the list with the project - 
with files from your people.a.o account.

What infra does not want is to serve official releases and anything that gets 
lots of traffic from people.a.o.

Since you are at Apachecon, find an Infrastructure person, they are usually 
sitting together as a big group in the break room, buy them a beer and ask all 
your questions.

I wish I was there to meet people, but work is too busy.

Regards,
Dave


On Feb 25, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Alex Harui wrote:

 Before I do that, can one of our former mentors approve or disapprove doing
 so?   I'm unclear how much advertising we can do about a set of binaries
 on my people.a.o folder.  I believe there are rules about advertising
 release candidates, for example, so they are not misconstrued as a release.
 That's why I've been talking about the binaries in email: that's how we talk
 about release candidates.
 
 I suppose the wiki can discuss how to put all of the source together.  I
 will try to see if I can better organize that information.
 
 And while the mentors are thinking about this topic, I have a related
 question:  I want to make these binaries available to select folks within
 Adobe.  There's no way these folks will work from the source so I need to
 give them binaries to play with in order to try to ensure my continued
 involvement in this prototype.
 
 On 2/25/13 4:29 PM, Om bigosma...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Thanks for this Alex.  I am trying to keep up as much as possible.  Do you
 mind putting these instructions up on the wiki as well?
 
 Thanks,
 Om
 
 On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:
 
 OK, time for another update before I get lost in ApacheCon:
 
 I’ve added the FalconJS stuff to the FlexJSOverlay.zip.  You can now use
 Flash Builder to create non-Flash apps.
 
 We have prototypes of a List, Button, Label, TextArea, and TextInput
 We have a prototype of a HTTPService and a LazyCollection
 The FlexJSSDKTest example is updated so you can choose a stock symbol from
 the List, hit a Button and see the stock price in the Label
 
 If you want to play with the this stuff and are too lazy to build from the
 sources, I have hacked together a way for you to try it in Flash Builder.
 
 Setup instructions are:
 
 1) Get Apache Flex 4.9 working in FB.  (I tried it with FB 4.7, but not FB
 4.6)
 2) Shut down FB
 3) Make a copy of your Apache Flex 4.9 folder.  The zip file contains a
 shell script that will neuter the Flex aspects of this folder and replace
 it
 with FlexJS stuff.
 4) Unzip FlexJSOverlay into a some other folder.
 5) Change to that folder and run deploy.sh or deploy.bat path to copy of
 Apache Flex 4.9 folder
 6) Run Flash Builder
 7) In the Flash Builder Preferences menu add this new folder as a Flex SDK.
 8) Choose from the File menu, Import, Run/Debug, Launch Configurations
 9) Choose the ide/flashbuilder folder from this copy of Apache Flex 4.9 we
 are mucking with.
 10) There should now be four new configs in the Run menu under External
 Tools
 11) Go to External Tools Configuration
 12) Select one of the configs
 13) Hit the variables button
 14) Hit the Edit Variables button
 15) Change FLEX_HOME to point to the modified Apache Flex SDK.
 16) Install Google Closure library
 17) For each of the two FalconJS configs, edit the launch configurations
 environment variables to set FLEXJS_HOME to the js/src of your overlaid SDK
 18) For each of the two FalconJS configs, edit the launch configurations
 environment variables to set GOOG_HOME to the goog folder of your
 GoogleClosure install.
 19) For each of the four launch configurations, ensure that the location
 field points to the Java runtime.
 
 Now for each project:
 
 1) Create a new Flex Project
 2) Choose this modified Apache Flex SDK
 3) Do not change the output folder from bin-debug
 4) Flash Builder will generate a totally messed up Application tag so
 replace it with this template:
 
 ?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8?
 basic:Application xmlns:fx=http://ns.adobe.com/mxml/2009;
   xmlns:basic=library://ns.apache.org/flexjs/basic
 
 /basic:Application
 
 Source Code
 
 Right now, Application doesn’t contain any UI, it takes another MXML file
 as
 the initialView property and a model and a controller.  You can reference
 the example in FlexJSSDKTest.
 
 Building and Running/Debugging
 
 As you edit the code, the regular Flex compiler is compiling and reporting
 errors, but it only knows how to build Flex SWFs so the output SWF probably
 won’t run.  So, before you debug, choose from the Run menu the new External
 Tool: “FlexJS (Debug Build)”.  This will run the Falcon compiler with the
 right options to generate a SWF in the bin-debug folder that overwrites the
 one that is there.  Then you should be able to set breakpoints and debug.
 
 Once you have your app working as a SWF, try one of the FalconJS tools.  It
 will output by default to the binjs-debug or 

Re: Perhaps we need a download.html page?

[Dave Fisher]

On Feb 1, 2013, at 11:49 AM, Om wrote:

 On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Justin Mclean 
 jus...@classsoftware.comwrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Also the 3rd google hit is missing:
 http://flex.apache.org/news.html
 
 I know google will eventually get it right but perhaps we need a stand
 alone news page?
 
 Thanks,
 Justin
 
 
 I think we should have a catch all directive that redirects pages to the
 home page.  I dont see a .htaccess on our site.  Would it be a problem if
 we had one at flex.apache.org level?

No problem. Good idea.

Regards,
Dave

 
 Thanks,
 Om

Apache Batik 1.7 vs. Private Fork?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi,

Any thoughts about upgrading to the latest Batik and breaking a project 
specific fork?

Regards,
Dave

Re: Apache Batik 1.7 vs. Private Fork?

[Dave Fisher]

Interesting! Similar issues may exist in Apache PDFBox as well.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 1, 2013, at 8:39 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:

 
 
 
 On 2/1/13 6:54 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Any thoughts about upgrading to the latest Batik and breaking a project
 specific fork?
 Funny you should ask today.  I spent some time today looking at our
 dependency on the Adobe font libraries.  Until I did that, my answer would
 have been that Falcon doesn't use Batik so eventually we'd be done with
 Batik as a dependency.
 
 However, Falcon doesn't yet have embedded font support, and we need to code
 up TTF-to-CFF Font handling somehow.  In my snooping around it appears that
 Batik doesn't handle CFF either but there are a few requests for it.  It
 looks like Batik does read TTF files so maybe the right thing to do is add
 CFF support to Batik and use that part of Batik.
 
 Flex uses Batik for CSS as well, and our fork adds non-standard extensions
 to CSS.  I think we won't need that part of CSS so we won't have to worry
 about that part of Batik.
 
 The TTF-to-CFF conversion looks painful and not-very-fun from my
 perspective.  Unless someone jumps in to do it, I guess I'll start trudging
 through it maybe one day a week or something like that.
 
 I guess whoever does that should plug into the Batik lists to see if anyone
 in that community has CFF under way.
 
 -- 
 Alex Harui
 Flex SDK Team
 Adobe Systems, Inc.
 http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
 

Fwd: IntelliJ IDEA as an alternative to Adobe Flash Builder

[Dave Fisher]

Scott,

Spam in the LinkedIn Group.

Regards,
Dave

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