Re: Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

Came in late in the discussion so not sure what is presently in use for Netbeans but figured I’d mention. Looking at the Tomcat BUILDING.txt, the ant build script (see release target for dependencies) it appears to use an open source installer (see https://nsis.sourceforge.io/Main_Page ) as

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

> > > Do the sources of the installers matter, at all? What they are is a > convenience binary, which is outside the scope of what Apache releases in > the same way as a ZIP file. > > For RCP based applications it sure does.

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

Hey all, https://archive.apache.org/dist/tomcat/tomcat-9/v9.0.0.M1/bin/ Tomcat releases installers for Windows, somehow, let's follow however they do that in terms of how to release it. Gj On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 12:33 PM Geertjan Wielenga < geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Yes, how

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

Yes, how do we get this resolved, ask our mentors or open a legal issue or what do you suggest? Gj On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 12:31, Neil C Smith wrote: > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 11:18, Geertjan Wielenga > wrote: > >Surely > > the sources of that installer themselves are not required to be part of

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 11:18, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: >Surely > the sources of that installer themselves are not required to be part of the > release too? That (or a separately voted on source release / third-party dependency) would exactly be my expectation, yes. IMO it should always be

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

The key problem here is that there's nothing comparable in any other Apache projects -- we can't refer to anything else and need to decide amongst ourselves what to do here. The installer exists for no other purpose than to install the binary of the sources that define the Apache release. Surely

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 10:28, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > Do the sources of the installers matter, at all? What they are is a > convenience binary, which is outside the scope of what Apache releases in > the same way as a ZIP file. Not trying to be awkward, but really don't see that parallel. An

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

Do the sources of the installers matter, at all? What they are is a convenience binary, which is outside the scope of what Apache releases in the same way as a ZIP file. Gj On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:57 AM Neil C Smith wrote: > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 08:38, Timon Veenstra wrote: > > I would

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 08:38, Timon Veenstra wrote: > I would say use the code to generate binaries from the voted release > sources. > Merge the PR after the release so the source code of the installer > generation is included in the next release. -1 I don't personally see how that meets the

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

+1 Gj On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 9:38 AM Timon Veenstra wrote: > > > > 1. Is this too late for inclusion in our official release? They haven't > > been tried out as part of the NetCAT process, so should we wait to > include > > these not in the upcoming release, but in the release afterwards? > >

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

> > 1. Is this too late for inclusion in our official release? They haven't > been tried out as part of the NetCAT process, so should we wait to include > these not in the upcoming release, but in the release afterwards? > As the PR has not been merged, this piece of code hasn't been voted on

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 12:36, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > 2. Voting on releases is on source code only -- this would be a binary > release like a ZIP file, would it even need to be voted on? And how would > that vote be done? As you say, voting is on source only. Are all the sources required to

Re: Installers for Apache NetBeans 11

On 3/12/19 5:35 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: Hi all, Reema and others have put together installers for Windows and Linux: https://builds.apache.org/job/netbeans-installer-test/ The questions are: 1. Is this too late for inclusion in our official release? They haven't been tried out as part

Re: Installers

While a .dmg is common, I actually think a .zip is simpler because: - it can easily be made on any platform - Safari will automatically unzip it leaving a simple application bundle in the user’s download folder Scott > On Feb 2, 2019, at 10:13 AM, Michal Konrad Owsiak wrote: > > In my,

Re: Installers

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019, 16:13 Michal Konrad Owsiak In my, personal view, DMG are much simpler for users. > So, you don't agree with that link I posted earlier then? :-) Two questions if we use DMG. Firstly, how much of an issue is what Tim mentioned about users running from the DMG, or are there

Re: Installers

In my, personal view, DMG are much simpler for users. http://www.owsiak.org/netbeans-make-macos-installer-beautiful-again/ All you have to do is to drag and drop app. And you can drop it into your $HOME/Applications if you are not a super user. Michal On 2018/08/20 10:02:04, Carl Mosca

Re: Installers

Excellent, thank you, will take a look. On Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 1:46 AM Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > Here's info about the installer-related code that is being audited for > donation: > > http://wiki.netbeans.org/Launchers_Installers_NBI > > Gj > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Carl Mosca

Re: Installers

Here's info about the installer-related code that is being audited for donation: http://wiki.netbeans.org/Launchers_Installers_NBI Gj On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:43 PM, Carl Mosca wrote: > Got it, thank you. > > Carl > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM Geertjan Wielenga > wrote: > > > Note,

Re: Installers

Got it, thank you. Carl On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:40 PM Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > Note, everything that is part of NetBeans is free and open source. > > What we're discussing here is whether (1) Oracle is able to donate the code > to Apache, which means Oracle needs to make sure the code

Re: Installers

Note, everything that is part of NetBeans is free and open source. What we're discussing here is whether (1) Oracle is able to donate the code to Apache, which means Oracle needs to make sure the code really and truly does belong to Oracle and (2) whether Apache can release the code. In this

Re: Installers

OK thank you. My understanding is that in general if there are IP issues, the original authors cannot write the new/replacement code and those who may write the new code should not look at the old code...but I am not an attorney. :) Carl On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:35 PM Geertjan Wielenga wrote:

Re: Installers

Yes, it slipped through the cracks. Possibly there'll be problems with parts of the code because of IP, but I'll be sure to keep this thread updated as we move along with this now, i.e., it will (as much as possible of it) be part of the 3rd donation. It would really help if those knowledgeable in

Re: Installers

This is good news. Somehow I got the impression that this code was not available due to IP and/or license issues. Thank you Gj. On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:39 AM Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung > wrote: > > > > > That said, looking at the git zip

Re: Installers

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung wrote: > > That said, looking at the git zip download, there's most certainly evidence > of the ability to create the Mac installers, which was kind of my base > puzzle. These existed before, where's the scripts to build it? The actual > build

Re: Installers

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Will Hartung wrote: > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Geertjan Wielenga < > geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > > > > > Excellent. So, where is your DMG solution, please? > > > > Can you stop sending e-mails for the moment and create the solution

Re: Installers

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Geertjan Wielenga < geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > > Excellent. So, where is your DMG solution, please? > > Can you stop sending e-mails for the moment and create the solution that > you're missing? Yes, maybe you don't know how to do that,

Re: Installers

I have modified the creation of the pkg file in the fork I created here: https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans Checkout the package-macos branch, run "ant package-macos" The "NetBeans 9.pkg" file should be in the nbbuild/MacOS directory if the build succeeds. Previously, I was using

Re: Installers

I'm missing something here - there is nothing even difficult about building a.pkg - the format is well documented and all doable with command line tools that can be automated with any build tool. It's not rocket science. Why the assumption that we can't possibly do an installer? Apache having a

Re: Installers

In the spirit of sharing various macOS install methods, I give you my “GetNetBeans” script: https://gist.github.com/swpalmer/1390e7bdb9054f327bdc7d8fb8692c51 Run it on macOS and magically you will have a NetBeans 9.0

Re: Installers

On 14 Aug 2018, at 17:40, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: where is your DMG solution? Hi. As another one watching from the sidelines, I offer a piece of the puzzle (or a bandaid)... https://github.com/dgreen/nb9dmg which will make a DMG if you already have a /Applications/NetBeans/NetBeans

Re: Installers

Hi everyone, first of all, thank you guys for this effort to continue improving Netbeans. I've been following this mail list for a while, because I wish I could contribute to the project, but it's not been easy and I'm still learning, maybe someday... :) I just wanted to express my point of view

Re: Installers

I have gotten pushback on occasion when I ask Java developers who invented Java as an early on interview question. One does not have to know this to be a good developer but I do like to consider the source when I read an opinion.  On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 7:27 PM Brett Ryan wrote: > > > On 15

Re: Installers

On 15 Aug 2018, at 09:21, James Gosling wrote: >> On Aug 14, 2018, at 4:13 PM, Brett Ryan wrote: >> >> That was a little tongue in cheek, but I do get called a dino at work >> from the young ones ‘cos I’m an nb advocate, trying to sway them. > > I get the same reaction at work….

Re: Installers

> On Aug 14, 2018, at 4:13 PM, Brett Ryan wrote: > > That was a little tongue in cheek, but I do get called a dino at work > from the young ones ‘cos I’m an nb advocate, trying to sway them. I get the same reaction at work…. From people who use Vi and Emacs. I have a hard time

Re: Installers

> On 15 Aug 2018, at 06:04, Tim Boudreau wrote: > > If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we >> can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over. >> > 99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing > list here. They'll

Re: Installers

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:23 PM, Will Hartung wrote: > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Tim Boudreau wrote: > > > If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we > > > can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over. > > > > > 99.9% of people who have

Re: Installers

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Will Hartung wrote: > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:14 AM, Geertjan Wielenga < > geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > > > I created two YouTube clips during the past few hours that show the > > ZIP-based and Mac Installer-based approaches to installing

Re: Installers

+1 for having a user-friendly installer for Mac users. Really, one of NB’s strongest points was how easy it is to install/configure/use. > On Aug 14, 2018, at 1:23 PM, Will Hartung wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Tim Boudreau wrote: > >> If anyone shows up on the mailing list

Re: Installers

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Tim Boudreau wrote: > If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we > > can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over. > > > 99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing > list here. They'll

Re: Installers

If anyone shows up on the mailing list complaining about performance, we > can tell them to get rid of the image and copy the bundle over. > 99.9% of people who have that experience will NOT show up onn the mailing list here. They'll simply use something else - perhaps blogging about the

Re: Installers

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 3:14 AM, Geertjan Wielenga < geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > I created two YouTube clips during the past few hours that show the > ZIP-based and Mac Installer-based approaches to installing Apache NetBeans: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-7aa2hYgc

Re: Installers

> On 14 Aug 2018, at 20:14, Geertjan Wielenga > wrote: > > I created two YouTube clips during the past few hours that show the > ZIP-based and Mac Installer-based approaches to installing Apache NetBeans: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-7aa2hYgc > >

Re: Installers

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 22:11, Neil C Smith wrote: > > On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 12:42, Brett Ryan wrote: >>> On 13 Aug 2018, at 19:22, Neil C Smith wrote: >>> I admit to using my mac as little as possible for testing purposes, >>> but I really don't get why a zipped up application bundle is seen

Re: Installers

I created two YouTube clips during the past few hours that show the ZIP-based and Mac Installer-based approaches to installing Apache NetBeans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-7aa2hYgc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gdC7BBtbs Each takes less than 5 minutes, comments welcome. Gj On

Re: Installers

On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 22:03, Will Hartung wrote: > > A DMG file is, effectively, a Mountable ZIP file. The "typical" Mac > Installation process is to open the DMG file, a window appears with the > Application bundle and a link to the Applications directory, and a big > arrow, essentially telling

Re: Installers

A DMG file is, effectively, a Mountable ZIP file. The "typical" Mac Installation process is to open the DMG file, a window appears with the Application bundle and a link to the Applications directory, and a big arrow, essentially telling you to drag the App in to the Applications folder. That's a

Re: Installers

On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 12:42, Brett Ryan wrote: > > On 13 Aug 2018, at 19:22, Neil C Smith wrote: > > I admit to using my mac as little as possible for testing purposes, > > but I really don't get why a zipped up application bundle is seen as > > unfriendly for macOS users? > > Power users

Re: Installers

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 19:22, Neil C Smith wrote: > >> On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 01:59, Tim Boudreau wrote: >> >> That's not a great user experience for Mac OSX users - it kind of >> telegraphs "we don't actually care about Mac OSX users". >> > > I admit to using my mac as little as possible

Re: Installers

On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 at 01:59, Tim Boudreau wrote: > > That's not a great user experience for Mac OSX users - it kind of > telegraphs "we don't actually care about Mac OSX users". > I admit to using my mac as little as possible for testing purposes, but I really don't get why a zipped up

Re: Installers

Just out of curiosity, what about distributing NetBeans via the Apple App Store? That of course is an issue post-installer creation. Most apps I install I get from the App Store - prefer the app store for a variety of reasons. To do this, we would need an Apple Developer account owned by

Re: Installers

Thank you Tim. I have been looking at the MacOS pkgbuild to do the build. I have not looking into making it portable yet but if that can work, it's certainly the way to go. The first (non-pkg) version I did ran OK but I believe there is a permission (ownership) issue with the current version.

Re: Installers

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 4:27 PM Scott Palmer wrote: > Really? Wow. Okay, another option (still preferable to a .pkg IMO) is > to simply distribute the application bundle in zipped form. That has the > advantage that you also don’t need a Mac to create it. In most cases > Safari would

Re: Installers

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 06:32, Scott Palmer wrote: > > Yes, that is true. If there is still a need for that, then a .pkg is > required. Is it still the case though? Given that JEE support is in the next drop and glassfish/tomcat are a part of the bundle then i can only assume so. That's not

Re: Installers

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 06:27, Scott Palmer wrote: > > Really? Wow. Okay, another option (still preferable to a .pkg IMO) is to > simply distribute the application bundle in zipped form. As mentioned the issue with this is it could not be installed by the user globally, think of a

Re: Installers

Yes, that is true. If there is still a need for that, then a .pkg is required. Is it still the case though? Scott > On Aug 12, 2018, at 4:14 PM, Brett Ryan wrote: > > Not quite. Remember the 8.2 installer did install Glassfish and tomcat for > JEE versions and above. When it did this the

Re: Installers

> On 13 Aug 2018, at 05:29, Neil C Smith wrote: > > On Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 16:23 Carl Mosca, wrote:. > >> I have not looked at pack2000, at least not lately. I will check it out. >> > > Hasn't pack200 just been deprecated!? > > Out of interest is there a preference / benefit for mac users

Re: Installers

Really? Wow. Okay, another option (still preferable to a .pkg IMO) is to simply distribute the application bundle in zipped form. That has the advantage that you also don’t need a Mac to create it. In most cases Safari would automatically extract it and leave the application sitting in

Re: Installers

Not quite. Remember the 8.2 installer did install Glassfish and tomcat for JEE versions and above. When it did this the servlet container was customised to match the users preferences. > On 11 Aug 2018, at 15:44, Scott Palmer wrote: > > The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk

Re: Installers

On Sun, 12 Aug 2018, 16:23 Carl Mosca, wrote:. > I have not looked at pack2000, at least not lately. I will check it out. > Hasn't pack200 just been deprecated!? Out of interest is there a preference / benefit for mac users to have the app bundle in a dmg and not just zipped up? That would

Re: Installers

Got it, thank you Tim. I have not looked at pack2000, at least not lately. I will check it out. Regards, Carl On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 11:12 AM Tim Boudreau wrote: > Hey there - I wasn't intending to blast anybody, just act as a little > corner of institutional memory, since there are a lot

Re: Installers

Hey there - I wasn't intending to blast anybody, just act as a little corner of institutional memory, since there are a lot of people who weren't around then and when issues are revisited, it helps to know what was learned the last time around. Sorry if the "uh oh" that went off on my head led me

Re: Installers

Gj, Yes, I agree. I have read the instructions and I don't see anything that's unclear about the pull request. I don't think a YouTube clip is necessary but I know if you did one it would be done well. :) I was mainly thinking about style and project organization. More of if the code is to be

Re: Installers

I can make a YouTube clip to explain how to provide pull requests to Apache NetBeans, however it wouldn’t be different to doing a pull request for any other project via Git. Gj On Sunday, August 12, 2018, Carl Mosca wrote: > Thank you Sebastian. I appreciate the feedback. > > I imagine

Re: Installers

Thank you Kirk. I am sure Tim is a good guy and ultimately meant no offense. I have made code contributions to other projects in the past and I will say that the on-boarding process varies a bit. :) Regards, Carl On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:21 AM Kirk Pepperdine wrote: > Hi Carl, > > I’m sorry

Re: Installers

Hi Carl, I’m sorry that you saw Tim as blasting you. I have worked Tim and know him very well and I know he does not operate that way. I can see the “advice” he was offering as being relevant at the time it was made. It is possible that things have changed and the history that Tim is relaying

Re: Installers

Thank you Gj. I will do so. You're always helpful and polite. Regards, Carl On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 8:29 AM Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Carl Mosca wrote: > > > I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for > > the "great debate of

Re: Installers

Thank you Sebastian. I appreciate the feedback. I imagine someone can provide a few pointers on where I located the Info.plist file, my use (and lack of) use of properties, and the final location of the pkg file. Hopefully I will learn about the pull request process. Carl On Sun, Aug 12, 2018

Re: Installers

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Carl Mosca wrote: > I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for > the "great debate of 2004". > > If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable, why > was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not? >

Re: Installers

I've tried it on my Mac and it works very well, i would appreciate if your work will be merged. Its very useful for further releases :) Sebastian Am 12.08.18 um 12:07 schrieb Carl Mosca: I guess I forgot to include that the location of the pkg file should be nbbuild/MacOS after the build

Re: Installers

I guess I forgot to include that the location of the pkg file should be nbbuild/MacOS after the build completes. Carl On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 3:04 AM Carl Mosca wrote: > If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork: > https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a

Re: Installers

I am not certain I understand Tim's comments because I was not around for the "great debate of 2004". If the process used to compress a dmg image makes jar files unusable, why was NetBeans 8.x pkg compressed that way or was it not? I suspect he was trying to say the pkg installer (which it now

Re: Installers

Really cool. I'm going to try it out, though Tim's comments re Mac installers is something to think about. Gj On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Carl Mosca wrote: > If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork: > https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac. > >

Re: Installers

If you're willing to try the package installer, clone this fork: https://github.com/carljmosca/incubator-netbeans on a Mac. Follow the setup for the build requirements then run "ant package-macos" This should do a build followed by the creation of a Mac package installer. On Fri, Aug 10, 2018

Re: Installers

How did you install NetBeans 8.x? On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:19 AM Tim Boudreau wrote: > This debate was had once about 14 years ago - and the decision to go with > .pkg installers on Mac OSX was made for this reason: There were a lot of > "NetBeans is unusably slow" reports on OSX. > > The

Re: Installers

The macOS “installer” should be nothing more than a disk image with the application bundle. It should not be a .pkg file that might require admin privileges as it would be a drag and drop install. The user should be able to drag the app bundle wherever they want. Scott > On Aug 10, 2018, at

Re: Installers

I work in a place where you need admin rights to install on Windows as well but that's a policy. As far as the MacOS goes, it's based on BSD. Therefore if /Applications is owned by root:wheel (or something similar that's not the current user), you need privileges to "su or sudo" in order to

Re: Installers

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kenneth Fogel wrote: > Yes, an installer is nice but all it should do on the Windows platform is > unzip NetBeans in the folder of choice and add a shortcut. > For some reason that I don't understand, and perhaps someone could explain, the installer for MacOS

RE: Installers

: August 10, 2018 7:33 AM To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Installers Well first off is MacOS dmg because that's where I code mostly. Secondly I like the idea of both an RPM and a deb for those Linux distros but I get the "yum install" "apt-get" thing

Re: Installers

Well first off is MacOS dmg because that's where I code mostly. Secondly I like the idea of both an RPM and a deb for those Linux distros but I get the "yum install" "apt-get" thing to it's just as high a priority for me. And yes, I know Windows has to be addressed a well but that's my order of

Re: Installers

Which kinds of installers, i.e., for which operating systems, do you want to create installers? Indeed, makes sense to me the idea of them being created during the build. Gj On Friday, August 10, 2018, Carl Mosca wrote: > OK but I probably should have been a little more specific about the >

Re: Installers

OK but I probably should have been a little more specific about the coordination part of my question. I am assuming that building the installers would, at some point, be part of the build process. I believe Jenkins and ant are currently used. Is there any history or preference with solutions to

Re: Installers

Yes, if you can create installers, that would be wonderful! I’ve seen about three different Mac OSX installers around so far. Please don’t wait, create installers if you can, and write back here with instructions when you’ve done so. Gj On Wednesday, August 8, 2018, Carl Mosca wrote: > I am