Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[fsmithred]

On 03/12/2018 06:34 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 05:44:07PM -0400, fsmithred wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
>>
>> Adding it as a dep is a good idea. Once it's installed, it can be found in
>> the menu under "Other" in xfce. I'm not sure where it shows up in other
>> menus. The user can dig through the menu and find it once, then copy the
>> .desktop files to their desktop. They're in /usr/share/applications/
>> LARGER_FONTS.desktop and SMALLER_FONTS.desktop
>>
>> Getting the icons on the desktop in the live iso is easy - I just put a
>> copy in the rootfs_overlay and it gets copied to the target. I'm not sure
>> what the best way would be to do this automatically.
>>
>> OK, this works, too. It copies the .desktop files to the current user's
>> desktop.
>>
>> xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor LARGER_FONTS.desktop
>>
>> xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor SMALLER_FONTS.desktop
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Hi fsmithred,
> 
> I was thinking more to an incantation, in the same style of those made
> by desktop-base ;)
> 
> HND
> 
> KatolaZ
> 

I tried thinking of that, but it made my head hurt. I don't know of a
config file in xfce that says what icons are on the desktop. Somewhere,
there's something for the Home, Trash, Filesystem and Removable drives
that you can select in a settings checkbox, but I suspect that's not a
plain text config file that can be replaced with an edited version.

Put the files in /etc/skel? That would be easy, but it would only work for
new users. Does d-i create the user before or after desktop-base is installed?

fsr



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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 19:16:40 +
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 01:32:01PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > > Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
> > > makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it
> > > and include it among the deps of XFCE.  
> > 
> > If it's not installed by default, you still have the buried shovel:
> > The user who can't read the fonts can't install the package.
> > 
> > What do you all think of also connecting a pair of hotkeys to
> > increase and decrease fonts via fontsnaps?
> > 
> >  
> 
> I understand your former comment, but the latter seems
> inconsequential: if you don't have the package installed by default,
> the keybindingss won't work.
> 
> My suggestion was exactly to have the fontsnaps package included as a
> dep in all the supported "task-*-desktop", so that it gets installed
> automatically if the user install task-whatever-desktop.
> 
> Steve: would you like to help with that? 

Yes.

SteveT
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 05:44:07PM -0400, fsmithred wrote:

[cut]

> 
> Adding it as a dep is a good idea. Once it's installed, it can be found in
> the menu under "Other" in xfce. I'm not sure where it shows up in other
> menus. The user can dig through the menu and find it once, then copy the
> .desktop files to their desktop. They're in /usr/share/applications/
> LARGER_FONTS.desktop and SMALLER_FONTS.desktop
> 
> Getting the icons on the desktop in the live iso is easy - I just put a
> copy in the rootfs_overlay and it gets copied to the target. I'm not sure
> what the best way would be to do this automatically.
> 
> OK, this works, too. It copies the .desktop files to the current user's
> desktop.
> 
> xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor LARGER_FONTS.desktop
> 
> xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor SMALLER_FONTS.desktop
> 
>


Hi fsmithred,

I was thinking more to an incantation, in the same style of those made
by desktop-base ;)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[fsmithred]

On 03/12/2018 03:16 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 01:32:01PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
>>> Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
>>> makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it and
>>> include it among the deps of XFCE.
>>
>> If it's not installed by default, you still have the buried shovel: The
>> user who can't read the fonts can't install the package.
>>
>> What do you all think of also connecting a pair of hotkeys to increase
>> and decrease fonts via fontsnaps?
>>
>>
> 
> I understand your former comment, but the latter seems
> inconsequential: if you don't have the package installed by default,
> the keybindingss won't work.
> 
> My suggestion was exactly to have the fontsnaps package included as a
> dep in all the supported "task-*-desktop", so that it gets installed
> automatically if the user install task-whatever-desktop.
> 
> Steve: would you like to help with that? 
> 

Adding it as a dep is a good idea. Once it's installed, it can be found in
the menu under "Other" in xfce. I'm not sure where it shows up in other
menus. The user can dig through the menu and find it once, then copy the
.desktop files to their desktop. They're in /usr/share/applications/
LARGER_FONTS.desktop and SMALLER_FONTS.desktop

Getting the icons on the desktop in the live iso is easy - I just put a
copy in the rootfs_overlay and it gets copied to the target. I'm not sure
what the best way would be to do this automatically.

OK, this works, too. It copies the .desktop files to the current user's
desktop.

xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor LARGER_FONTS.desktop

xdg-desktop-icon install --novendor SMALLER_FONTS.desktop


fsmithred

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 01:32:01PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:

[cut]

> > Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
> > makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it and
> > include it among the deps of XFCE.
> 
> If it's not installed by default, you still have the buried shovel: The
> user who can't read the fonts can't install the package.
> 
> What do you all think of also connecting a pair of hotkeys to increase
> and decrease fonts via fontsnaps?
> 
>

I understand your former comment, but the latter seems
inconsequential: if you don't have the package installed by default,
the keybindingss won't work.

My suggestion was exactly to have the fontsnaps package included as a
dep in all the supported "task-*-desktop", so that it gets installed
automatically if the user install task-whatever-desktop.

Steve: would you like to help with that? 

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:30:48 +
KatolaZ  wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 06:23:25AM -0400, fsmithred wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > We already have two buttons on the desktop for enlarging and
> > reducing the font and icons, thanks to Joerg Reisenweber, but it's
> > only in the desktop-live, and it's only for xfce. I haven't looked
> > at it in a long time, but I think it's ready to be packaged.
> > https://git.devuan.org/fsmithred/fontsnaps
> > 
> >   
> 
> Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
> makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it and
> include it among the deps of XFCE.

If it's not installed by default, you still have the buried shovel: The
user who can't read the fonts can't install the package.

What do you all think of also connecting a pair of hotkeys to increase
and decrease fonts via fontsnaps?


 SteveT
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-12 03:29, KatolaZ wrote:

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 10:59:34PM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

[cut]

Steve, I appreciate your comments but you are really late to this 
party.
The ASCII slim theme was finished in December and the layout and font 
sizing
are identical to the one in Jessie which is about a year ago. The slim 
panel
has also been posted to this list maybe a dozen times in the last 
year. So
the Jessie and ASCII ship have sailed.  I'll have a look at enlarging 
the
font when I start on Beowulf but there will be no fussy buttons (for 
both

technical and aesthetic reasons).



Sorry for interrupting. I am the least "graphically-sensible" here,
but I guess we should try to make the default Devuan desktop as
accessible as possible to visually-impaired users. I have no clue
about how system fonts are managed in XFCE, but it shouldn't be
impossible to have two icons in the default desktop to set the font to
+4 and +8 points. Something we should definitely plan around for
Beowulf, indeed.

My2Cents

KatolaZ




The login screen has been in that identical configuration for well over 
a year (maybe 2) and there has not been one complaint about readability 
(that has not been addressed). So this is a solution in search of a 
problem.  The slim panel is an image not text so there can be no buttons 
to increase font size. I can however increase the font size on the image 
itself.


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-12 03:13, Edward Bartolo wrote:

On 12/03/2018, goli...@dyne.org  wrote:

On 2018-03-11 14:08, Edward Bartolo wrote:
[snip]

Edward, I'm happy to hear that you've found something that suits you.
But now I'm wondering what you were previously seeing.

This is the Jessie (purpy) default login screen:
https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_jessie.png

And this is the ASCII (darkpurpy) default login screen.
https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_ascii.png



Neither of the two files, slim_jessie.png and slim_ascii.png, are
identical to what I had as background for slim.


I have no way of knowing whether you're on Jessie or ASCII


I am on ASCII which has been installed and functioning for several
months. Excuse me for my leaky memory but I do not remember exactly
when I had it installed or distupgraded. If my wetware serves me
right, my path of installation was, first an installation of Debian,
then a conversion to Devuan. For some reason, both debootstrap and the
Devuan installer did not work, so I had to resort to install Debian
first.

I am attaching a screenshot that I scaled down by 25% to save space on
the servers. It is clear something is not not well understood with my
setup.




That background is the default slim "blood and guts" (as we call it) 
background.  I had nothing to do with it. If you have desktop-base 
installed you will have a uniform darkpurpy theme from grub to slim to 
the desktop in Xfce.  Sorry I was a bit slow to realize you were not 
seeing the Devuan specific theming.


golinux





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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 06:23:25AM -0400, fsmithred wrote:

[cut]

> 
> We already have two buttons on the desktop for enlarging and reducing the
> font and icons, thanks to Joerg Reisenweber, but it's only in the
> desktop-live, and it's only for xfce. I haven't looked at it in a long
> time, but I think it's ready to be packaged.
> https://git.devuan.org/fsmithred/fontsnaps
> 
> 

Great. Let's do it then. It's a tiny change that costs nothing and
makes life a lot easier for many users. We could just package it and
include it among the deps of XFCE.

Anybody willing to add support for KDE, LXQT, LXDE, MATE, etc in the
same package? This is a concrete way to help Devuan.

HND

KatolaZ

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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[fsmithred]

On 03/12/2018 04:29 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 10:59:34PM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
>> Steve, I appreciate your comments but you are really late to this party.
>> The ASCII slim theme was finished in December and the layout and font sizing
>> are identical to the one in Jessie which is about a year ago. The slim panel
>> has also been posted to this list maybe a dozen times in the last year. So
>> the Jessie and ASCII ship have sailed.  I'll have a look at enlarging the
>> font when I start on Beowulf but there will be no fussy buttons (for both
>> technical and aesthetic reasons).
>>
> 
> Sorry for interrupting. I am the least "graphically-sensible" here,
> but I guess we should try to make the default Devuan desktop as
> accessible as possible to visually-impaired users. I have no clue
> about how system fonts are managed in XFCE, but it shouldn't be
> impossible to have two icons in the default desktop to set the font to
> +4 and +8 points. Something we should definitely plan around for
> Beowulf, indeed.
> 

We already have two buttons on the desktop for enlarging and reducing the
font and icons, thanks to Joerg Reisenweber, but it's only in the
desktop-live, and it's only for xfce. I haven't looked at it in a long
time, but I think it's ready to be packaged.
https://git.devuan.org/fsmithred/fontsnaps


fsmithred

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 10:59:34PM -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote:

[cut]

> Steve, I appreciate your comments but you are really late to this party.
> The ASCII slim theme was finished in December and the layout and font sizing
> are identical to the one in Jessie which is about a year ago. The slim panel
> has also been posted to this list maybe a dozen times in the last year. So
> the Jessie and ASCII ship have sailed.  I'll have a look at enlarging the
> font when I start on Beowulf but there will be no fussy buttons (for both
> technical and aesthetic reasons).
> 

Sorry for interrupting. I am the least "graphically-sensible" here,
but I guess we should try to make the default Devuan desktop as
accessible as possible to visually-impaired users. I have no clue
about how system fonts are managed in XFCE, but it shouldn't be
impossible to have two icons in the default desktop to set the font to
+4 and +8 points. Something we should definitely plan around for
Beowulf, indeed.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

-- 
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[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
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[DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Edward Bartolo]

On 12/03/2018, goli...@dyne.org  wrote:
> On 2018-03-11 14:08, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Edward, I'm happy to hear that you've found something that suits you.
> But now I'm wondering what you were previously seeing.
>
> This is the Jessie (purpy) default login screen:
> https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_jessie.png
>
> And this is the ASCII (darkpurpy) default login screen.
> https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_ascii.png
>

Neither of the two files, slim_jessie.png and slim_ascii.png, are
identical to what I had as background for slim.

> I have no way of knowing whether you're on Jessie or ASCII

I am on ASCII which has been installed and functioning for several
months. Excuse me for my leaky memory but I do not remember exactly
when I had it installed or distupgraded. If my wetware serves me
right, my path of installation was, first an installation of Debian,
then a conversion to Devuan. For some reason, both debootstrap and the
Devuan installer did not work, so I had to resort to install Debian
first.

I am attaching a screenshot that I scaled down by 25% to save space on
the servers. It is clear something is not not well understood with my
setup.
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-11 22:03, Steve Litt wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 19:51:05 -0500
goli...@dyne.org wrote:


And this is the ASCII (darkpurpy) default login screen.
https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_ascii.png


The ASCII (darkpurpy) has much better color resolution, so that's good.

I'd recommend making the text about F1 and man slim significantly
bigger and perhaps within the darker color. You have plenty of real
estate there.

Another recommendation I have, although it wouldn't be easy, is to have
buttons labeled 2x font and 4x font. This would blow up the font for
really sight deficient people who need enough readability to set their
font appropriately.

I haven't thought this out completely, but it's purpose is to save
people from the buried shovel where if only they could read the screen,
they could enlarge the font, and if only they could enlarge the font,
they could read the screen.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve, I appreciate your comments but you are really late to this party. 
 The ASCII slim theme was finished in December and the layout and font 
sizing are identical to the one in Jessie which is about a year ago. The 
slim panel has also been posted to this list maybe a dozen times in the 
last year. So the Jessie and ASCII ship have sailed.  I'll have a look 
at enlarging the font when I start on Beowulf but there will be no fussy 
buttons (for both technical and aesthetic reasons).


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 19:51:05 -0500
goli...@dyne.org wrote:

> On 2018-03-11 14:08, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> > Factum est.
> > 
> > Slim now displays another background instead of the default but it
> > is still one of golinux's creations. I find the previous simple
> > backgrounds better suited for a display manager. This one is dark
> > purple with Devuan's logo across the screen. It is
> > /usr/share/images/desktop-base/your-way_purpy-narrow-large.png.
> > 
> > Nice and simple, the way I want it.
> > 
> > Thanks to all.
> >   
> 
> Edward, I'm happy to hear that you've found something that suits you. 
> But now I'm wondering what you were previously seeing.
> 
> This is the Jessie (purpy) default login screen:
> https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_jessie.png
> 
> And this is the ASCII (darkpurpy) default login screen.
> https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_ascii.png

The ASCII (darkpurpy) has much better color resolution, so that's good.

I'd recommend making the text about F1 and man slim significantly
bigger and perhaps within the darker color. You have plenty of real
estate there.

Another recommendation I have, although it wouldn't be easy, is to have
buttons labeled 2x font and 4x font. This would blow up the font for
really sight deficient people who need enough readability to set their
font appropriately.

I haven't thought this out completely, but it's purpose is to save
people from the buried shovel where if only they could read the screen,
they could enlarge the font, and if only they could enlarge the font,
they could read the screen.

Thanks,

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-11 14:08, Edward Bartolo wrote:

Factum est.

Slim now displays another background instead of the default but it is
still one of golinux's creations. I find the previous simple
backgrounds better suited for a display manager. This one is dark
purple with Devuan's logo across the screen. It is
/usr/share/images/desktop-base/your-way_purpy-narrow-large.png.

Nice and simple, the way I want it.

Thanks to all.



Edward, I'm happy to hear that you've found something that suits you. 
But now I'm wondering what you were previously seeing.


This is the Jessie (purpy) default login screen:
https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_jessie.png

And this is the ASCII (darkpurpy) default login screen.
https://dev1galaxy.org/files/slim_ascii.png

I have no way of knowing whether you're on Jessie or ASCII but I do know 
that /usr/share/images/desktop-base/your-way_purpy-narrow-large.png is 
from Jessie and 
/usr/share/images/desktop-base/your-way_darkpurpy-narrow-large.png would 
be from ASCII.  Both correspond to the color palette in the screenshots 
posted above. I am confused why you thought these were not "nice and 
simple".  Please help me to understand.  Thank you.


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-11 14:54, Steve Litt wrote:

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 13:16:25 -0500
goli...@dyne.org wrote:


On 2018-03-11 06:08, Didier Kryn wrote:
> For me, the dark-purpy is just another variation of grey and
> I'm fed up with grey cars, grey clothing, grey everything, and,
> grey life.
>

Sorry to hear you're seeing it as grey.  Darkpurpy is quite subtle.
Either it's a monitor calibration missing or lack of visual acuity.
Men are often "color-challenged".


That being said, a color scheme and fonts should never interfere with
quick visual recognition of clocks, menus, text, icons and the like.



This is true.  I have no idea if it is possible to change the font color 
in the source of the xfce4-datetime-plugin but will investigate.  If it 
is, it would require recompiling so more work for someone else as that 
is so not my thing. Not a high priority on the list . . .




I haven't yet had a visibility problem with Purpy, so I'm just making
this as a generic comment on principle.


SteveT



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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Chillfan]

Seems to me you're using this as an opportunity to rail on someone. This isn't 
helpful or constructive.

Thanks,

chillfan

> still one of golinux's creations.
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 13:16:25 -0500
goli...@dyne.org wrote:

> On 2018-03-11 06:08, Didier Kryn wrote:
> > For me, the dark-purpy is just another variation of grey and
> > I'm fed up with grey cars, grey clothing, grey everything, and,
> > grey life.
> >   
> 
> Sorry to hear you're seeing it as grey.  Darkpurpy is quite subtle.  
> Either it's a monitor calibration missing or lack of visual acuity.
> Men are often "color-challenged".

That being said, a color scheme and fonts should never interfere with
quick visual recognition of clocks, menus, text, icons and the like.

I haven't yet had a visibility problem with Purpy, so I'm just making
this as a generic comment on principle.


SteveT
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[DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Edward Bartolo]

Factum est.

Slim now displays another background instead of the default but it is
still one of golinux's creations. I find the previous simple
backgrounds better suited for a display manager. This one is dark
purple with Devuan's logo across the screen. It is
/usr/share/images/desktop-base/your-way_purpy-narrow-large.png.

Nice and simple, the way I want it.

Thanks to all.
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-11 06:08, Didier Kryn wrote:

For me, the dark-purpy is just another variation of grey and
I'm fed up with grey cars, grey clothing, grey everything, and, grey 
life.




Sorry to hear you're seeing it as grey.  Darkpurpy is quite subtle.  
Either it's a monitor calibration missing or lack of visual acuity. Men 
are often "color-challenged".




    Golinux, please don't take it personnally.



Of course not.  Everyone has different tastes and perceptions. This is 
life.




I value a lot what you
are doing and the way you express yourself in this forum, always
gentle and professional. This is true for all the team.



It is a privilege to be able to contribute to Devuan in a small way and 
to collaborate with such exceptional human beings.


golinux
 
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-11 07:51, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:


If something like I suggested does get in, it may be one more reason to
choose Devuan because it allows you to opt out of its default theme ;-)

As I have said before . . . there is already a way to accomplish that.  
Do a custom install, don't install desktop-base and you will get the 
default look for each application.  Usually we are advising users how to 
get the default look!  LOL!


As to multiple theming . . . there are already enough pitfalls with the 
installer - the mother of all hairballs!  Devuan doesn't need to nanny 
it's users with multiple themes. Besides . . . most everyone changes the 
look immediately after install anyway so what's the point?


This comment on distrowatch from 2-18 tells me that we're on the right 
track with darkpurpy:


"Default Devuan theme appears to have changed slightly to a darker purpy 
color, easy on the eyes and probably not going to change it."


golinux




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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-11 01:35, KatolaZ wrote:


Oh this does not mean that we don't need help with that: quite the
opposite! So any volunteer is really to welcome to help, not just with
WMaker, but also with any of the other window managers around.

My2Cents

KatolaZ




I am always available to help with color selection for theming other DEs 
as I have done in the past. Some of the theming can likely be done 
through desktop-base (which is a bit of a hairball that fsmithred has 
taken on).  Remember, I just play with the crayons.  ;)


golinux
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi Jochen,

J. Fahrner writes:

> Am 2018-03-11 02:09, schrieb Olaf Meeuwissen:
>> The problem is that desktop-base has an explicit Depends: on
>> clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme where alternatives could be provided
>> or a meta-package to pull in a theme so that admins can control the
>> system-wide default more easily.
>
> I do not know a distribution that offers a selection of themes during
> the installation. Why should Devuan put work here? If you do not like
> the theme, you can customize it yourself or choose a different
> distribution.

Hey, I said I like the theme!  Cut me some slack ;-)

I just tried to point out why things happen the way they do and suggest
how that could be improved.  If someone want to do the legwork and feed
that back to Devuan, fine.  If not, you won't hear me complain.

If something like I suggested does get in, it may be one more reason to
choose Devuan because it allows you to opt out of its default theme ;-)

Hope this helps,
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Didier Kryn]

Le 10/03/2018 à 21:07, Edward Bartolo a écrit :

A hint that would not break any package would have been appreciated.
It seems my only route of salvation is to fork desktop-base to get the
wallpapers I want.

Please, do not reply to this thread to add more to the previous polemic.


    Sorry, Edward but I reply.

    Debian has been - and Devuan is - a distro for the DIY people, not 
for the dummy. Therefore don't expect to get everything ready-made to 
their own personnal taste. There is slim.config that you can edit, and 
the default slim theme is available with the distro. Therefore just 
select default instead of dark-purpy. That's what I've done. The default 
is absolutely great to my taste. For me, the dark-purpy is just another 
variation of grey and I'm fed up with grey cars, grey clothing, grey 
everything, and, grey life.


    Golinux, please don't take it personnally. I value a lot what you 
are doing and the way you express yourself in this forum, always gentle 
and professional. This is true for all the team.


    For what regards the theme, it's just a matter of taste and it can 
be changed easily - at least we can choose between two.


    Didier


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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 08:53:11AM +0100, Jaromil wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, KatolaZ wrote:
> 
> > Well, the theme is actually half-there, mainly thanks to msiism. We
> > just have to finish it up and rebuild the package ;)
> 
> true. on ascii we have quite some new entries in the team :^) msiism,
> irrwahn, amesser and others have given great help on desktop issues
> and documentation and general understanding of issues and last not
> least we have understood how to fix the loginkitd mess.
> 
> your call to remember the early dire days of exodus is timely, as the
> hungry gap is approaching we shall fast at least one day by running
> only your devuan minimal-live :^D
> 

Well, since you speak of fasting, I think it's time to post a link to
a page I put together almost one year ago:

  http://kalos.mine.nu/histlinux/

You find there a full-featured qemu image of Debian 0.91beta, the
first available Debian release from 1994, obtained from the original
installation floppy images and ftp archives. Be careful: dpkg is not
exactly what you might expect :P

In comparison, Devuan minimal-live is a Christmas dinner ;)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Jaromil]

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, KatolaZ wrote:

> Well, the theme is actually half-there, mainly thanks to msiism. We
> just have to finish it up and rebuild the package ;)

true. on ascii we have quite some new entries in the team :^) msiism,
irrwahn, amesser and others have given great help on desktop issues
and documentation and general understanding of issues and last not
least we have understood how to fix the loginkitd mess.

your call to remember the early dire days of exodus is timely, as the
hungry gap is approaching we shall fast at least one day by running
only your devuan minimal-live :^D

ciao

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 07:29:01AM +, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 08:25:18AM +0100, Jaromil wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > OT: after so many years I reverted to use wmaker as my wm (and it
> > makes me happy!) noticing it has no Devuan themeing. In this as in
> > other window managers this is a task open for volunteers willing to
> > help. Anyone interested is very welcome!
> > 
> 
> Well, the theme is actually half-there, mainly thanks to msiism. We
> just have to finish it up and rebuild the package ;)
> 

Oh this does not mean that we don't need help with that: quite the
opposite! So any volunteer is really to welcome to help, not just with
WMaker, but also with any of the other window managers around.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 08:25:18AM +0100, Jaromil wrote:

[cut]

> 
> OT: after so many years I reverted to use wmaker as my wm (and it
> makes me happy!) noticing it has no Devuan themeing. In this as in
> other window managers this is a task open for volunteers willing to
> help. Anyone interested is very welcome!
> 

Well, the theme is actually half-there, mainly thanks to msiism. We
just have to finish it up and rebuild the package ;)

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 10:09:05AM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> goli...@dyne.org writes:
> 
> > This is the best answer of all.
> >
> > Yes, just remove desktop-base to eliminate all styling you find
> > objectionable and recreate it as you wish.
> 
> Seems a bit drastic just to get rid of the default theme.  On my system
> this wants to remove 438 packages covering most if not all of Xfce, the
> only desktop I have installed.
> 
> The problem is that desktop-base has an explicit Depends: on
> clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme where alternatives could be provided
> or a meta-package to pull in a theme so that admins can control the
> system-wide default more easily.


When we were starving to death, we craved for bread. We found a dirty
crust of bread, and we started begging for soup. After we got enough
soup, we demanded meat. When we were sated with three kinds of meat,
we asked for a cream tea with jam, scones, and clotted cream. After
having eaten half a scone and not even touched the clotted cream, we
felt an insatiable desire for crabs, caviar and champagneI guess
it's just human nature :P

I can't find appropriate words to describe today the joy and immense
gratitute to Devuan that I felt the first moment the Valentine alpha
became available. I will simply remember that moment forever.

A lot has been done since then, and Devuan has given us bread, soup,
meat, scones, caviar, and what not. It's great to see that we still
have desire for more, but please let us not forget where we came from,
and the hunger we have suffered in getting where we are now. It helps
putting things in perspective ;)

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Jaromil]

dear Olaf,

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:

> > Seems a bit drastic just to get rid of the default theme.  On my
> > system this wants to remove 438 packages covering most if not all
> > of Xfce, the only desktop I have installed.
> 
> Sorry, I have set APT::Get::AutomaticRemove to true, hence the large
> number of packages to be removed.  When set to false, the default,
> it's only three.  desktop-base task-desktop task-xfce-desktop

thanks for double-checking. having so many packages removed after
desktop-base would be a problem to be fixed in Devuan, especially
considering needs of derivative distros.

OT: after so many years I reverted to use wmaker as my wm (and it
makes me happy!) noticing it has no Devuan themeing. In this as in
other window managers this is a task open for volunteers willing to
help. Anyone interested is very welcome!

ciao
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-11 00:29, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:

Hi again,

Olaf Meeuwissen writes:


Hi,

goli...@dyne.org writes:


This is the best answer of all.

Yes, just remove desktop-base to eliminate all styling you find
objectionable and recreate it as you wish.


Seems a bit drastic just to get rid of the default theme.  On my 
system
this wants to remove 438 packages covering most if not all of Xfce, 
the

only desktop I have installed.


Sorry, I have set APT::Get::AutomaticRemove to true, hence the large
number of packages to be removed.  When set to false, the default, it's
only three.

  desktop-base task-desktop task-xfce-desktop



It's not unusual to do a bare-bones custom install of Xfce without the 
meta package and desktop-base.  My enthusiasm for this method of removal 
was a bit tongue-in-cheek (think scorched earth).  ;)




The problem is that desktop-base has an explicit Depends: on
clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme where alternatives could be provided
or a meta-package to pull in a theme so that admins can control the
system-wide default more easily.



Exactly.  The purpose of desktop-base is to integrate the default theme.


That said, I like darkpurpy so have no intent to improve the current
situation.



:D



Apart from getting the clock in the Xfce systemtray to display in a
colour that contrasts with the darkpurpy theme rather than the dark
shade of grey that is used now.



Remove the default clock from the panel and install the Orage clock from 
the repos instead.  It has nice config options that allow for foreground 
and background color choice.  As far as making that the default option . 
. . let me talk to Centurion_Dan about that.  It's not really a priority 
in the grand scheme of things but the suggestion could at least be 
included in some release notes for the final release.


golinux

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi again,

Olaf Meeuwissen writes:

> Hi,
>
> goli...@dyne.org writes:
>
>> This is the best answer of all.
>>
>> Yes, just remove desktop-base to eliminate all styling you find
>> objectionable and recreate it as you wish.
>
> Seems a bit drastic just to get rid of the default theme.  On my system
> this wants to remove 438 packages covering most if not all of Xfce, the
> only desktop I have installed.

Sorry, I have set APT::Get::AutomaticRemove to true, hence the large
number of packages to be removed.  When set to false, the default, it's
only three.

  desktop-base task-desktop task-xfce-desktop

> The problem is that desktop-base has an explicit Depends: on
> clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme where alternatives could be provided
> or a meta-package to pull in a theme so that admins can control the
> system-wide default more easily.
>
> That said, I like darkpurpy so have no intent to improve the current
> situation.

Apart from getting the clock in the Xfce systemtray to display in a
colour that contrasts with the darkpurpy theme rather than the dark
shade of grey that is used now.

>> On 2018-03-10 07:14, Chillfan wrote:
>>> One way to remove it all would be:
>>>
>>> apt-get purge desktop-base
>>>
>>> Or don't install it to begin with.
>>>
>>> Try the xfce gradient wallpaper, which is blue. Or..
>>>
>>> apt-get install gimp
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>>
>>> On March 9, 2018 8:34 AM, Edward Bartolo edb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Dear All,

 I would like to ask the Devuan Distribution to provide a means to
 permanently remove the purple wallpapers (golinux's creation). I would
 like to have either wallpapers that users can individually choose or
 some light blue/green gradient wallpapers.

 Thank you all.
>
> Hope this helps,


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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-03-11 02:09, schrieb Olaf Meeuwissen:

The problem is that desktop-base has an explicit Depends: on
clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme where alternatives could be provided
or a meta-package to pull in a theme so that admins can control the
system-wide default more easily.


I do not know a distribution that offers a selection of themes during 
the installation. Why should Devuan put work here? If you do not like 
the theme, you can customize it yourself or choose a different 
distribution.


Jochen
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi,

goli...@dyne.org writes:

> This is the best answer of all.
>
> Yes, just remove desktop-base to eliminate all styling you find
> objectionable and recreate it as you wish.

Seems a bit drastic just to get rid of the default theme.  On my system
this wants to remove 438 packages covering most if not all of Xfce, the
only desktop I have installed.

The problem is that desktop-base has an explicit Depends: on
clearlooks-phenix-darkpurpy-theme where alternatives could be provided
or a meta-package to pull in a theme so that admins can control the
system-wide default more easily.

That said, I like darkpurpy so have no intent to improve the current
situation.

> On 2018-03-10 07:14, Chillfan wrote:
>> One way to remove it all would be:
>>
>> apt-get purge desktop-base
>>
>> Or don't install it to begin with.
>>
>> Try the xfce gradient wallpaper, which is blue. Or..
>>
>> apt-get install gimp
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>
>> On March 9, 2018 8:34 AM, Edward Bartolo edb...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> I would like to ask the Devuan Distribution to provide a means to
>>> permanently remove the purple wallpapers (golinux's creation). I would
>>> like to have either wallpapers that users can individually choose or
>>> some light blue/green gradient wallpapers.
>>>
>>> Thank you all.

Hope this helps,
--
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 09:07:48PM +0100, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Quote: Troll
> 
> I am not interested in damaging the distribution I am using after
> Debian betrayed me by shackling my freedom with systemd's adoption.
> 
> A hint that would not break any package would have been appreciated.
> It seems my only route of salvation is to fork desktop-base to get the
> wallpapers I want.

...or, as people have suggested you several times in this thread, just
edit slim.conf (either from a text editor or from whatever config tool
they have) and get whatever wallper you like there. They have also
explained how to change your DE's wallpaper. It seems that these
suggestion answer your question :)

HND

KatolaZ

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[DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Edward Bartolo]

Quote: Troll

I am not interested in damaging the distribution I am using after
Debian betrayed me by shackling my freedom with systemd's adoption.

A hint that would not break any package would have been appreciated.
It seems my only route of salvation is to fork desktop-base to get the
wallpapers I want.

Please, do not reply to this thread to add more to the previous polemic.
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-10 13:38, m712 wrote:

I'm pretty much convinced this is a troll but all I've got on this
Saturday evening is time and my wine so.



Baiting the bear?



What you can do now is to make the question more
open ended and asking people if they want change on the default
wallpapers.



Probably a bad idea.  Please let's let this thread die quietly.



Though, I doubt that it will happen since the majority
seems to enjoy the current ones.



They do.  And this is the first negative comment I've seen. Besides the 
whole point of free software  is the ability to "have it your way" so I 
really don't see what all the fuss is about.  If you don't like it, 
change it.  End of story.


golinux




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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

This is the best answer of all.

Yes, just remove desktop-base to eliminate all styling you find 
objectionable and recreate it as you wish.


On 2018-03-10 07:14, Chillfan wrote:

One way to remove it all would be:

apt-get purge desktop-base

Or don't install it to begin with.

Try the xfce gradient wallpaper, which is blue. Or..

apt-get install gimp
​
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On March 9, 2018 8:34 AM, Edward Bartolo edb...@gmail.com wrote:


Dear All,

I would like to ask the Devuan Distribution to provide a means to

permanently remove the purple wallpapers (golinux's creation). I would

like to have either wallpapers that users can individually choose or

some light blue/green gradient wallpapers.

Thank you all.

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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[m712]

I'm pretty much convinced this is a troll but all I've got on this Saturday 
evening is time and my wine so.

On March 10, 2018 10:22:46 PM GMT+03:00, Edward Bartolo  
wrote:
>Quote: "I don't think you have a correct understanding of ad hominem."
>
>Keep what you think to yourself.
You called me out on using an Ad Hominem, and I called you out on using it 
incorrectly. Stop the double standard.
>The tactic is to attack the messenger instead of the message.
You asked artwork to be removed with no reason given, so it's obviously assumed 
to be personal taste. The messenger is attacked because the message depends on 
the messenger.
>I wrote an email to be directed to change the
>default wallpapers for slim and got into a puerile argument with
>people who should know such arguments lead to nowhere but I am was
>wrong in my assuming I was dealing with grown-ups.
Nice ad hominem yourself. Also, the distro should fit you and your personal 
taste? What?
>I will not drink the venom that you posted - keep that to yourself. It
>is always the same puerile attitude: the other party understands
>nothing, knows nothings, remembers nothing, ...
I would say the same about you, to be honest. If you actually read my mail now 
instead of cherry-picking some small thing I wrote and proclaiming "HA! 
Gotcha!", you will know that I'm trying to be constructive here. What you can 
do now is to make the question more open ended and asking people if they want 
change on the default wallpapers. Though, I doubt that it will happen since the 
majority seems to enjoy the current ones.
>Shame on you.
Not even gonna respond to this.
   m712
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[DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Edward Bartolo]

Quote: "I don't think you have a correct understanding of ad hominem."

Keep what you think to yourself. The tactic is to attack the messenger
instead of the message. I wrote an email to be directed to change the
default wallpapers for slim and got into a puerile argument with
people who should know such arguments lead to nowhere but I am was
wrong in my assuming I was dealing with grown-ups.

I will not drink the venom that you posted - keep that to yourself. It
is always the same puerile attitude: the other party understands
nothing, knows nothings, remembers nothing, ...

Shame on you.
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Adam Borowski]

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 04:08:27PM +0100, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> On 10/03/2018, m712  wrote:
> > It's your choice to remove or keep them, and the color of a wallpaper is
> > entirely subjective. I think it's arrogant to request Devuan to remove
> > artwork because you want them removed.
> 
> An 'Ad Hominem'? Bravo! I am a chef and was 'back in the kitchen'
> preparing a broth with too many cooks.

It was not m712 who started this obvious troll thread.  I won't insult your
intelligence by assuming your initial mail was genuine lack of knowledge
rather than malice.


ᛗᛖᛟᚹ!
-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ A dumb species has no way to open a tuna can.
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ A smart species invents a can opener.
⠈⠳⣄ A master species delegates.
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[m712]

On March 10, 2018 6:08:27 PM GMT+03:00, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>On 10/03/2018, m712  wrote:
>> It's your choice to remove or keep them, and the color of a wallpaper
>is
>> entirely subjective. I think it's arrogant to request Devuan to
>remove
>> artwork because you want them removed.
>>
>
>An 'Ad Hominem'? Bravo! I am a chef and was 'back in the kitchen'
>preparing a broth with too many cooks.
I don't think you have a correct understanding of ad hominem. I did not accuse 
you of being arrogant, I stated my opinion that I believe it is arrogant to 
request a distro-wide removal of artwork just because someone doesn't like 
them. Maybe the use of "you want them removed" was incorrect; I should have 
used "someone wants them removed", and for that I apologize. My opinion still 
stands, though.
   m712
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[J. Fahrner]

Am 2018-03-10 16:08, schrieb Edward Bartolo:

I want to remove the themes from the slim display manager


Configure whatever you want in /etc/slim.conf


and I am
concerned updates of slim may overwrite my changes restoring them to
their defaults.


Normally on updates, when there is a config change, you will be asked if 
you want to keep your config or install a new one.


Jochen
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[DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Edward Bartolo]

On 10/03/2018, m712  wrote:
> It's your choice to remove or keep them, and the color of a wallpaper is
> entirely subjective. I think it's arrogant to request Devuan to remove
> artwork because you want them removed.
>

An 'Ad Hominem'? Bravo! I am a chef and was 'back in the kitchen'
preparing a broth with too many cooks.

On 09/03/2018, goli...@dyne.org  wrote:
> [ snip ]
> Right click on your Xfce desktop. Choose desktop settings.  Navigate to
> the wallpaper of your choice.  You can also create gradients there. The
> default images in /usr/share/images/desktop-base/ can be permanently
> deleted.
> Done.  Was that so hard?
>

That is not what I want and this is not MS Windows. Removing parts of
packages by deleting files is strongly discouraged in any Linux
distribution that uses a package manager.

I want to remove the themes from the slim display manager and I am
concerned updates of slim may overwrite my changes restoring them to
their defaults. StartX does not work for some weird reason, so I have
to stick with a display manager.

Thanks.
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Chillfan]

One way to remove it all would be:

apt-get purge desktop-base

Or don't install it to begin with.

Try the xfce gradient wallpaper, which is blue. Or..

apt-get install gimp
​
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On March 9, 2018 8:34 AM, Edward Bartolo edb...@gmail.com wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> I would like to ask the Devuan Distribution to provide a means to
> 
> permanently remove the purple wallpapers (golinux's creation). I would
> 
> like to have either wallpapers that users can individually choose or
> 
> some light blue/green gradient wallpapers.
> 
> Thank you all.
> 
> Dng mailing list
> 
> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> 
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[m712]

It's your choice to remove or keep them, and the color of a wallpaper is 
entirely subjective. I think it's arrogant to request Devuan to remove artwork 
because you want them removed.

On March 9, 2018 11:34:28 AM GMT+03:00, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>I would like to ask the Devuan Distribution to provide a means to
>permanently remove the purple wallpapers (golinux's creation). I would
>like to have either wallpapers that users can individually choose or
>some light blue/green gradient wallpapers.
>
>Thank you all.
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   m712
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Re: [DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[golinux]

On 2018-03-09 02:34, Edward Bartolo wrote:

Dear All,

I would like to ask the Devuan Distribution to provide a means to
permanently remove the purple wallpapers (golinux's creation). I would
like to have either wallpapers that users can individually choose or
some light blue/green gradient wallpapers.

Thank you all.
___



Right click on your Xfce desktop. Choose desktop settings.  Navigate to 
the wallpaper of your choice.  You can also create gradients there. The 
default images in /usr/share/images/desktop-base/ can be permanently 
deleted.

Done.  Was that so hard?

golinux

PS  Note that on distrowatch and elsewhere there has been much love for 
darkpurpy desktop. Here's a screenie for those who have missed it: 
https://dev1galaxy.org/files/ascii_desktop.png   New icons are not yet 
integrated but available here in a version that now has all the needed 
symlinks: https://dev1galaxy.org/files/DarkPurpy-links.tar.gz

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[DNG] Please, provide a means to remove the default wallpapers.

[Edward Bartolo]

Dear All,

I would like to ask the Devuan Distribution to provide a means to
permanently remove the purple wallpapers (golinux's creation). I would
like to have either wallpapers that users can individually choose or
some light blue/green gradient wallpapers.

Thank you all.
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