I wonder if the mixing of teaching and research is causing a lot of
these problems? In academia the only position for conducting original
research long-term is professor (ostensibly?) but they are also
responsible for teaching too (ostensibly?)... I wonder if the
enterprise has grown too
-Original Message-
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Aaron T. Dossey
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 8:55 PM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School -training grad
students
Dossey, one of the greatest strengths of the teaching component of the higher
education system in the U.S. is that the people doing the teaching are truly
experts in the fields in which they teach. These experts range from full
professors through junior faculty members and down to post
But many people like both and are good at both. I wouldn't want either
a 100% research or a 100% teaching position. I can be flexible about
the mix, maybe doing research in the summers, but not about having the
opportunity to do both.
Jane
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Aaron T. Dossey
in life, love, work, and happiness.
Brandi
M.S. Candidate Avian Sciences
University of California, Davis
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700
From: jane@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6
: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School -Knowledge of Today
Documentary
In my experience, search committees also look for individuals who have
published while in graduate school. This usually requires motivation and
efforts by both the student and the advisor.
I'm very sorry to see
...@hofstra.edu]
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 12:09 PM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School -Knowledge of Today
Documentary
I have served on many faculty search committees for positions at a largely
undergraduate teaching-focused university--the sort
I've been following this thread with great interest. I've found many of the
comments to be on par with my own graduate school experiences. My graduate
school experience has been a mixed bag of positive and negative experiences.
However, I've found that overall the graduate school experience has
Hi All,
I would like to comment on the need for training in teaching mentioned
in earlier posts in this thread, and the comment below that students
often have little opportunity to gain such training or experience.
Things are changing rapidly: many universities now offer programs that
Aaron, you seem to have a whole lot on your mind re this topic!
Clearly, for a spousal hire to take place, one of the spice had to have many of
the properties to which I alluded, and it's really unlikely that the other
would be hired unless he/she also had such abilities and achievements as
My experience isn't the same as yours. Departments are often quite happy to get
rid of someone with delusions of grandeur. At my own institution, the reality
is that state funding isn't going anywhere but south, and so each department
will soon have to pay a financial price or opportunity cost
young
Americans into debt slaves for life.
Best wishes for us all in life, love, work, and happiness.
Brandi
M.S. Candidate Avian Sciences
University of California, Davis
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700
From: jane@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity
Wow. To extrapolate from your bad experiences to say that NO (state)
universities or K-12 schools should receive greater funding than they do now
doesn't seem justified. You haven't proven the magnitude of the supposed
problems you see, or outlined a workable alternative educational and
Sciences
University of California, Davis
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700
From: jane@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey bugoc...@gmail.com
wrote:
When we graduate, we
I agree with the post below. I had fantastic advisors for my PhD and
postdocs. I had a lot of independence and always got
first/corresponding author status for my own work. And the process is
long, but doesn't have to take forever - even in the US you can do a
biology Ph.D. in 5 years.
into debt slaves for life.
Best wishes for us all in life, love, work, and happiness.
Brandi
M.S. Candidate Avian Sciences
University of California, Davis
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700
From: jane@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey bugoc...@gmail.com
wrote:
When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as
everyone else
- a degree. There are many
Sciences
University of California, Davis
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700
From: jane@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey bugoc...@gmail.com
wrote:
When we graduate, we
Mal, I always thought that under-employed meant working in a job that was
below your training, not a comment on full or part-time status, or term or
permanent (although you could argue about that last one I suppose). So
underemployed for a PhD might be working in a job that only required a
Right now the government of Canada has hiring subsidies for under- and
un-employed individuals. According to them, underemployed encompasses 3
categories: employed part-time, employed in a position below your skill
level, OR employed in a contract lasting less than 6 months.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey bugoc...@gmail.com wrote:
When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as everyone
else
- a degree. There are many successful
. Candidate Avian Sciences
University of California, Davis
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700
From: jane@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey bugoc...@gmail.com wrote:
When we
Hi ECOLOG,
As an American currently living and executing a PhD program in Europe, I
feel compelled to write expressing my agreement with Wayne Dawson's
comments. While it is true that many PhD projects for students are
prescribed supervisors, this is not the only way it works. I, for example,
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:29:21 -0700
From: jane@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey bugoc...@gmail.com
wrote:
When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials
I went a slightly alternative route, born and B.S.-ed in the US, but went to
Australia (University of Tasmania) for my PhD in the marine conservation
field, then returned to the US for my post doc. I had an overall great
experience in Australia - like Europe, no class requirements and finished
From: jane@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey bugoc...@gmail.com wrote:
When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as everyone else
- a degree. There are many
The author misses the fact that European Ph.D. programs are 3-4 years
long because the students do, by and large, work as technicians. There
are no classes. There is, in most cases, no opportunity or time to
pick your own question (even within a large project), which is really
the thing that
Hello Ecolog,
Here are my thoughts, written 11 PM from Boulder, CO.
Grad school is indeed audacious, and not a default choice.
As someone who spent 3 years on the 'dark side' (academic
admin) I know that there are *huge* differences among labs.
Some labs are very happy and students move to
Entrepreneurship is the new reality for most who want a career in
original research. The ivory tower has failed the vast majority of
aspiring scientists, especially those of us with Ph.D.'s.
Other options: Start at a company and work your way up. Also, there are
very good research positions
Again, your mileage may vary. When I wrote my first paper in grad
school, I automatically put my advsor's name on it. He thanked me but
said that he hadn't made enough of a contribution to earn that credit.
Only after he made substantial (albeit sometimes exasperating to me)
contributions to the
Hello ECOLOG,
I'm not sure if a European perspective has been expressed yet, but I will do
so anyway. I cannot comment on US PhD positions and the US grad school
system, as I have no experience of them, but I do have experience of doing a
PhD in Europe (in Britain), and of supervising/observing
This s very good advice. I would add to talk all students, postdocs,
both current AND FORMER from the labs you are considering. Do this well
in advance, even before you apply. Consider not ONLY their opinion of
the experience yeah, I had fun will not get you a good career/job.
Ask them
, October 17, 2012 7:41 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
This s very good advice. I would add to talk all students, postdocs, both
current AND FORMER from the labs you are considering. Do this well
in advance, even before you apply. Consider
Just some corrections about the Brazilian system, mentioned by Aaron.
There is no salary component from research grants, but most grad students
don't write their own grants either (postdocs do). The grad fellowships are
pre-allocated by graduate program, based on the overall performance of said
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Aaron T. Dossey bugoc...@gmail.com wrote:
When we graduate, we have more or less the same credentials as everyone else
- a degree. There are many successful scientists without Ph.D.'s but many
more with Ph.D.'s who are unemployed.
Can you make a rough estimate
When I was considering graduate school to pursue a Ph.D. in ecology,
the best advice I received was that I shouldn't go to graduate school
unless I wanted to do it for its own sake - the experience of doing
research in a Ph.D. program - not to seek a qualification for
employment later. Not
Isn't that taken care of by the first author/last author distinction?
NO - see my previous emails today on this topic as well. Here is an
excerpt:
The publication opportunity I was referring to earlier was not for very
young inexperienced scientists with no degree (shortly out of high
There are many overgeneralizations in the points made by Aaron (and in the
article linked above). Graduate school is HARD, no doubt about it, but I
would guess that, in the field of ecology, the vast majority of graduate
students are valued and respected members of communities within their
: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 2:25 PM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
There are many overgeneralizations in the points made by Aaron (and in the
article linked above). Graduate school is HARD, no doubt about it, but I would
guess that, in the field
Society of America: grants, jobs, news
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Aaron T. Dossey
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:41 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] The Audacity of Graduate School
This s very good advice. I would add to talk all students
Part of the problem is that institutions, colleges, departments,
programs, etc. do not do a good job (or do not do at all) of
pre-screening faculty to determine who should and who should NOT be
allowed to serve as mentors (I use the term very broadly here).
The entire onus should not be
Actually, I would strongly recommend AGAINST grad school, or grad school
only as a last resort. There are many ways to achieve a successful and
fruitful career while following your dreams, and many roads that do not
lead through a stint as a temporary under-paid technician/piece of
equipment
As one of many hopeful individuals trying to find an open program in which to
begin an advanced degree, I'd also like to point out the pitiful state of
scientific funding in North America. The current NSERC funding success rate is
below 8%, and the NSF success rate hovers around 20%.
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