In addition to the points made by Sarah Frias-Torres, there is this to
consider: Wide swaths of Christian conservatives think the end-times are at
hand. Those who see environmental degradation as a sign of the end-times
are not going to hasten to undo a sign from God. Some progressive
Hi, Rob Hamilton,
It seems like you are saying that water vapor is causing global
warming. If so, why is the climate getting warmer now? Has the amount of
water vapor in the air increased since the industrial revolution? Given
that most of the planet's surface is covered with water
Robert Hamilton,
Your statement implies that we mustn't confuse causes with
effects. Fine, but how do we tell what is really going on in phenomena as
complex as global climate? I don't see how one can justify an opinion
unless actually running a climate model, or subscribing to the
Message-
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin Meiss
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 9:37 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] What Can I DO?? Re: [ECOLOG-L] Message from
Paul
Well, Wayne, wouldn't you consider C4 metabolism to be a form of drought
tolerance that doesn't require restriction of biomass production? C4
plants can open their stomata at night, when water loss will be less than
during the day, absorb C02 and store it in the C4 molecule. When the sun
rises
C4 metabolism (also known as Crassulacean acid metabolism) is accomplished
by special biochemical pathways which have their basis in genetics. Since
these pathways evolved in some plants, it seems theoretically plausible,
however difficult, that various manipulations could cause them to appear in
To Wayne and others:
Sorry about the C4/CAM confusion. It has been many years since I
have thought about them and I forgot some important distinctions (but it
did seem to make the thread come to life).
Wayne, in answer to your question regarding this question I put
forth:
...Is
science should be done before we squander a
lot of grant money on applications of dubious future. It seems that the
application cart is getting ahead of the basic science cart . . .
WT
- Original Message - From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Sent: Wednesday
Hi, Rick,
I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small, private,
liberal arts college from 1970 through 1974 and it cost my father about
$3,000 per year for room, board, and tuition. Now it would cost about
$42,000, about a 14-fold increase. Inflation, which I'm guessing has
Ph.D.
Professor/PCSU Unit Leader/CESU Director
PCSU/CESU/Department of Botany
University of Hawaii Manoa
- Original Message -
From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:10 am
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] UC-Berkeley and other 'public Iv ies'in
(but growing) percentage of students who are
slightly less qualified than needier applicants but have the ability to pay
the full price.
Dawn Stover
On Dec 28, 2011, at 10:05 AM, Martin Meiss wrote:
Hi, Rick,
I don't think the answer is that simple. I went to a small,
private,
liberal
I have not looked at the original model or report, but the summary
statements that were included in the initial posting are troublesome, to
whit:
...Their results showed that animals and plants that can adjust to climate
change will have a
competitive advantage over those that don't...
and
I don't think the point Mr. Czech discusses is quite a trivial truism,
since one can point to cases where technological advances can indeed limit
the consumption of resources, or otherwise lower environmental impact. For
instance, LED lighting uses less engergy than incandescent lighting. Given
Wayne, et al..
Is it possible that institutions are moving away from the term
ecology to avoid the onslaught coming from the right wing against
ecology, which after all is linked at some level with the environmental
movement and there stands in the way of turning the national patrimony
Hi, Kevin,
For organizing thoughts and/or data that are hierarchical in nature I
find Microsoft Word to be quite useful. Yes, you read right: MS-Word, set
in outline mode. In this mode Word brings up a special toolbar with
convenient tools for increasing and decreasing levels of indentation
Even if we agree as to what native means, phrases such as native to
Texas are problematic, and not just because, as Matt Chew points out,
human political constructs vary with time. If a tree is native to one
little corner of Texas, then the statement native to Texas applies, but
what does it
to corral.
Cordially yours,
Tacy Fletcher (uses pseudonym Cayt Fletch on facebook) also
tflet...@pnc.edu
Fletch
From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L
Right-on Chris. I've been thinking about it for a long time and still have
not thought of or head of a definition of species that covers all they
ways we use the word in biology. But then, it may be a faulty expectation
to think we should be able to. Nature is under no obligation to conform to
*There is no precise terminology*, and can never be, for many concepts in
ecology. The problem is that reality presents us with continua, with
gradients without clear boundaries. Physicists who study light, don't, as
far as I know, argue about the definition of red; they accept the nature
of the
Hi, Bill H. and Ecologers:
I accept the scientific evidence that global warming is occurirng,
but I think we should be careful about pointing to various
warmer-than-usual events and saying, Aha, evidence for global warming! I
don't think doing so is statistically valid, and here's an
Greetings, Ecologers,
This year, in turning my compost and digging my garden beds in Syracuse,
NY, I have noticed markedly fewer earthworms than in previous years, and I
am wondering of others of you have observed this also. This could be one
of those natural, mysterious population fluctuations,
-- Forwarded message --
From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com
Date: 2012/4/10
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Where have all the earthworms gone?
To: Susannah Woodruff susan...@wyom.net
Yeah, it's a reply-all vs. repy-to-sender thing, but I'm not sure of the
exact wording because I have my
One problem not addressed here so far is that science is very competitive
for jobs, publication, and grants. Let us imagine two young scientists
with similar intelligence and education beginning their careers:
Case 1. This person has a spouse who assumes most of the responsibility in
the
Hi, Malia,
Depending on the timing of the measurements relative to changes in air
temperature and sunlight exposure, such temperature differences are easy to
imagine without there being any cooling mechanism. If the gall is a
large mass, it will have a much lower surface-to-volume ratio than
Actually, evaporative cooling does not necessarily bring leaf temperature
below ambient temperature. Because the leaf is absorbing light, it may be,
say, 10 degrees warmer than the surrounding air. Depending on the details,
the evaporative cooling may be able to bring this down only to perhaps 5
Hi, Ling Huang and other Ecologers,
Here where I live in central New York, we have a large wetland call
the Montezuma Marsh. It has had nearly half of its over 3,200 acres under
management dominated by purple loosestrife, which crowds out other plants
and eliminates nesting areas and
How about if we consider that invaders have become native when all efforts
to eradicate them are futile?
Martin M. Meiss
2012/4/26 David Duffy ddu...@hawaii.edu
I feel that competition without a doubt is beneficial, perhaps necessary,
for an ecosystem to continue progressing towards a more
Interesting observations, Robert H., perhaps summed up by the
metaphor The best steel goes through the fire. But what does it imply
for implementing social policy, or academic policy? Deliberately harsh or
downright brutal conditions might be appropriate for training Navy Seals,
and tough
While I was doing my thesis research I traveled from Maine to Florida
taking pictures of trees. I was specifically interested in open grown
crowns whose shape had not been modified by pruning, as city street trees
usually are. Not surprisingly, cemeteries were one of my best sources.
For many
But Pedro, how do you go about understanding a system without, either
formally or informally, generating and testing hypotheses? If I observe
that caterpillars are eating daisies and catbirds are eating caterpillars,
my mind automatically thinks, Hmm, maybe the catbird population density
affects
Hi, Matt,
I'm not sure how to interpret this line from your post:
But it's naive to project our values, preferences and capabilities (maybe
even our anatomies and physiologies)
into an unknowable future and seek to impose them on our successors.
Are you saying that because we can't
Hello, ecologgers,
I recently had an idea which is surely not new, but which I have not
heard in the national discussion of US energy policy. Most of us would
agree that it is important to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels, which
means that we must develop alternative, preferably
Nicolas,
Why would you restrict your interest to the flow of energy, and not
include the flow of material, such as a nutrient like fixed nitrogen, or
potassium?
Martin M. Meiss
2012/9/27 Katharine Miller kmill...@alaska.edu
Hi,
I wanted to thank everyone for their responses and
Wayne,
I don't know if this rises to the level of knowledge, but I have
often heard that the cones of certain pines won't open to release their
seeds unless toasted in a fire. It seems that it would take just the right
amount of fire, though, because toasting for too long would surely
Hi, Shelley,
I'm not an epistomologist, philosopher of science, or
theory-of-knowledge guy, but I submit that once a correlation between two
phenomena is identified, the only thing we can demand in determining which
one is causal is that it precede the presumptive effect in time. Of
Hi, Wendee,
Although I have a PhD in evolutionary biology, I've never worked as a
biologist after graduate school. I had some good reasons for a career
change (to software engineering) but I still have some regrets for never
having contributed to the growth of biological knowledge, and in
2012/11/5 Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com
Howdie, Ecologers,
As others have pointed out, based on their knowledge of ecology,
using a single axis (good, fair, poor) to evaluate ecosystems is inherently
flawed. I would extend this to say that it is inherently flawed for
mathematical
Hi, Danielle,
One old-standby aquarium experiment is reproductive rate and competition
among floating plants. You can use various species of duck weed (*Lemna,
Wolfia*) liverwort (*Riccia*) and ferns (*Azolla, Salvinia*) and vary light
levels, temperature, etc.
You could also test the affect of
2013/1/11 Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com
Hi, Jon,
Without regard to permaculture or any other particular field, what
do you mean by stealing an idea? Once research is published, the ideas
belong to everyone. Patenting and copyrighting protect certain uses of
certain types of idea
Hi, Scott,
Depending on the tree's rooting system, specifically whether it has a
tap root, you might be able to do most of the ax work while standing on the
stump, if the sawyers can leave you a nice flat stump about a foot high or
lower.
I have heard that you can accelerate
Hi, Brett,
Unfortunately, I can't help you with sign design, but it would be
neat if you got a couple of seasons of road-kill data before you put the
signs up. That way you could conduct a before-and-after study and see if
the signs actually do any good, or with enough time and data,
I wonder if that landscape shown in the video is former rainforest. I saw
on a nature program recently that Madagascar has lost 80 percent of its
original forest cover. It's not hard to believe that could have something
to do with locust population dynamics.
Martin M. Meiss
2013/3/28 David
Here are what I see as some problems with the idea that homosexuality in
humans is rooted in the genetics of kin selection, as proposed earlier in
this thread.
1. Suppose an individual is born with a mutation that makes him/her
inclined to homosexuality and to avoid reproduction. If this
of an individuals
gender) a heritable trait?
Just a thought.
Patrick Mears
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are what I see as some problems with the idea that homosexuality in
humans is rooted in the genetics of kin selection, as proposed earlier
explanation.
Mitch Cruzan
On 3/28/2013 10:42 AM, Martin Meiss wrote:
Here are what I see as some problems with the idea that homosexuality in
humans is rooted in the genetics of kin selection, as proposed earlier in
this thread.
1. Suppose an individual is born with a mutation that makes him
This may be a little off from where this thread has lead, but it relates to
native vs. non-native plants for landscaping:
*1.* Just because a plant evolved in a certain place or habitat, and is
presumably adapted to that place, does not mean that it won't do BETTER
somewhere else. And I'm not
Hi, Wayne, et al.
On the first point, we reduce the mail load a bit when people
respond directly, and we don't lose much if the initial querier then posts
a summary (although this may at times reduce some valuable give-and-take
that posters' responses elicit from other posters).
I think we're losing sight of an important idea here. In literature,
movies, song lyrics, etc. it is the wording that his protected by copyright,
not the ideas. Only Tammy Wynette can stand by your man without paying
royalties, but anyone can sing about loyalty.
On the other hand, what
I find this exchange very interesting, and it points up a major
problem caused by the burgeoning of scientific knowledge and the limitations
of the individual. As scientists, we believe (have faith) that the
scientific method is the best means of arriving at truth about the natural
world.
Mr. Hamazaki's example, whether it is accurate or not, illustrates
one of my points. Just to get by in our professional lives, scientists must
have faith in the social institutions, such as peer review, that we have
created. And yet we all know that social institutions are inherently
else's work simply because that work made it into a
journal, and that work proves to be in error, you are essentially shooting
yourself in the foot down the road.
--j
Martin Meiss wrote:
I find this exchange very interesting, and it points up a major
problem caused by the burgeoning
or myself.
Martin Meiss' most fundamental (no pun intended) point seemed to be:
. . . we should be looking for something better than Does this have the
stamp of approval of people who think like I do? We should be looking
for
something that is not just an encodement of Does this violate
Hi, Sarah,
The experience you report has greater value than that of
entertainment, because it raises some issues for further discussion.
1. The academic/scientific publishing process does not follow the familiar
rules of a for-profit business. Imaging walking into a bank to make a
technology similar to what was used to fake the dinosaurs in Jurassic
park.
Martin Meiss
2009/8/4 David Inouye ino...@umd.edu
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/opinion/02kristof.html?_r=1scp=1sq=how%20to%20lick%20a%20slugst=cse
How to Lick a Slug
Published: August 1, 2009
MOUNT HOOD
of this
level of subjectivity?
Martin Meiss
2010/12/4 William Silvert cien...@silvert.org
An interesting aspect of this story is that Kepler's decision to accept the
accuracy of Tycho's data was based on his subjective evaluation of the
quality of the data. The idea that we can drive all
I would define an intellectual as one who loves the life of the mind.
This person need not be particularly intelligent, but merely derive pleasure
from pondering issues in theology, art, history, philosophy, science, etc.
If this same person also loves, say, team sports, his/her appreciation
If you want to appeal to a broad spectrum of the U.S. public, any phrase
with diversity in it has been poisoned by wingnuts. It raises the
haunting spectre of being forced to rub shoulders with people of undesirable
race, ethnicity, sexual preference, social standing, state of health, funny
Despite the apparent cynicism of my earlier post on this thread, I
would like to accept Wayne T's optimism that the public can be brought to an
understanding of biodiversity that is more sophisticated than a mere species
list. However, in one sense this is opening a Pandora's box. When
Just in case you missed it, be sure to check out Andrew Yost's post on
a parallel thread addressing this same topic. He gives the history of term
biodiversity and quotes some authors with very interesting insights.
Now for my one-fiftieth of a dollar: I think it is futile and wrong
This thread contains statements of the kind that I think get us in
trouble, if not with the public, then with our scientific rigor. Axel
Ringe's post begins with what looks like an inclusion from a previous post
with this statement ...one metaphor for biodiversity that I remember was
the
Warren, your list of human interventions in nature leaves out one of the
most important: rape. The slaughter of the buffalo, deforestation followed
by abandonment, etc.
Martin
2011/1/18 Warren W. Aney a...@coho.net
The terms conservation and gardening do not cover the full range
I would add that gardening is directed toward different goals than
conservation or restoration. The gardener wants to produce beauty, food, or
some other harvestable product. Also, gardening is almost invariably based
on plant varieties that have been in domestication for a long time,
sometimes
I'm not sure I understand Manuel's distinction between statistical
hypootheses and scientific hypothesis. Is not the former supposed in some
way to mathematically embody/parameterize the latter?
But in any case, it seems to me that it is often hard to rigorously
formulate a null
I am amazed by Pat Swain's statements implying that unless a program of work
includes formal hypothesis testing, it's not even research. (...I think
that pure survey of a property for species (making a list of all the species
of some taxonomic group) encountered isn't research..., ...some of the
near water hazards, we can put wide confidence intervals on our graphs.
Martin
2011/3/8 mcnee...@cox.net
Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com wrote:
I am amazed by Pat Swain's statements implying that unless a program of
work
includes formal hypothesis testing, it's not even
for the researcher who naively makes observations and gathers data without
specifically looking for anything in particular.
Martin Meiss
2011/3/9 Paul Grogan grog...@queensu.ca
Hi,
I am fascinated by the varying use of hypotheses in ecology, and have been
following the recent emails
or sub-field matures, or as society's
needs change, but there's still room for everyone. I think this is
especially true when we consider how new information technology can get more
data before more people, even data that were gathered a hundred years ago.
Martin Meiss
2011/3/9
It seems to me that some contributors to this thread are being
naive about how journalism and news coverage influence public opinion.
There seems to be a consensus that people, in general, make up their minds
about things based on logic, understanding of facts, and reliable sources.
This
Something weird is happening on this thread. The original post
related to how scientists should communicate their research results to the
general public. The implicit assumption behind this question is that
communication with the public is *not the same as* communication among
scientist
It's probably more reasonable to think of the soil-building
properties of leaves (and other things that fall out of trees, like twigs,
fruit, bird poop, etc.) at the level of the forest rather than at the level
of the individual tree. After all, leaves don't fall straight down, and
after
A long time ago, when I was learning about plant ecotypes, I heard of
research on the adaptation of plants to high lead levels found in piles of
mine tailings. If I remember correctly, local races of plants were forming
that were able to adapt to toxic soils. This raises these questions:
not? Is it as simple
as semipermeable membranes, whether or not they are soluble and under what
conditions? Is something going on in the rhizosphere that evades some
analytical procedures?
WT
- Original Message - From: Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Sent
Here's the link to the Joomla website, with links to their documentation:
http://docs.joomla.org/
Hope this helps.
MMM
2011/5/16 V. Tilden ginnypep...@comcast.net
Hi!
I represent the PA chapter of TWS (The Wildlife Society). We recently
switched board members and our new Webmaster
Well, I can't say what the narrator was basing his/her statement upon, but
it can be justified. Roots are, for the most part, programmed to grow
downward (positive geotropism), and in many if not most soil environments,
water is more abundant at lower levels. Thus, growing downward means
growing
While we're on the topic of the public being exposed to junk science,
consider these other common areas of misconception: Most of us were taught
a misleading version of how the greenhouse affect is purported to work, and
most people cannot explain the concept of relative humidity without straying
When you consider the timing of observations of root position relative to
available water, the situation can be even more confusing. When conditions
in the soil are favorable to do so (say, during a rainy season) roots may
grow deep, passing through soil that will later not support the growth of
?
- Original Message -
From: David L. McNeely mcnee...@cox.net
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Plant roots matter Re: [ECOLOG-L] Communication
Science to Public Plant Roots
Martin Meiss mme...@gmail.com wrote:
While we're
Here are two places you could consider:
1. Fire Island National Seashore, which is on a barrier island south of
Long Island, New York. It has a unique habitat call the Sunken Forest.
This forest is composed of a very odd mixture of tree species: Tupelo,
sassafras, holly, and service berry, with
I don't think chip implantation is practical for little animals like poison
dart frogs and many aquarium fish. Also, I'm not sure implantation would
work well in arthropods (many hobbyists keep tarantulas and scorpions).
Martin M. Meiss
2011/7/3 Wayne Tyson landr...@cox.net
All:
This is not
If I may have another go at it:
1. How about the duckweeds, especially *Wolfia*, because it is so small and
featureless (like grains of sand).
2. Bladderworts, because of the neat way they trap arthropods, and because
they have aquatic and terrestrial species.
3. The aquatic floating ferns, like
Hi, Paul, David, et al.,
Paul's informal survey is quite interesting to me, not only because
of the subject of monarchs, and the landscapes from a part of the country I
am not familiar with, but also because of its implications for informal
research. One issue is inferences that may or
? Do they need light so bad they make their own? ;-)
Martin Meiss
2010/2/22 Joshua Villa joshuavi...@gmail.com
As far as I know fungi, like basidiomycetes, show positive phototropism
(growing toward the light source), but don't necessarily need sunlight in
their lifecycle for growth
Any suggestions as to how and why such a complex lifecycle evolved? Could
it have been a series of opportunistic terminal additions that got locked in
somehow?
Martin M. Meiss
2010/3/23 Lien Luong l...@psu.edu
The trematode, Halipegus ovocaudatus, a parasite of amphibians has four
I assume it is a case of viewing an academic degree as the easiest way of
assessing knowledge and status. Of course, there are many flaws with this
system: successful academicians can be nitwits and frauds, and people
without certain diplomas make contributions to society that far outshine
those
An interesting report, but it seems to me that there are some
problems. For instance, this wording at the included link does not reflect
my understanding of insect metamorphosis:
... Over the next couple of weeks, the egg hatches and the larva migrates
to the ant’s head. The ant behaves
Repeated freezing and thawing (i.e., the formation and destruction of ice
crystals in the soil), other burrowing organisms, and the growth and
subsequent rotting in-place of plant roots all help keep soil loose in zones
where the cold excludes earthworms.
Martin Meiss
2010/5/3
I think someone is being to bio-centric with the word species. It
does not apply only to the living world. Chemists can refer to a molecule
as being of a certain chemical species.
It seems to me that if the alien beings are not all identical, they
must be amenable of
that hang
on tight, fly away, or resent having their branch whacked? And while you're
dealing with these issues, who's going to be feeding the perhaps many
thousands of specimens in their individual containers and recording the
their behavior, growth, and mortality?
Martin Meiss
C'mon, Bill S,
It sounds like you're advocating rational policy based on
case-by-case evaluation with regard to consensus values. Where ya gonna get
with that?
Martin Meiss
2010/5/11 William Silvert cien...@silvert.org
Although Jim Crants in a later post raised
So, Mr. Patton, if you could, would you re-introduce smallpox and polio? It
took nature millions of years to get them working properly on the human
population.
Martin Meiss
2010/5/12 Jan Ygberg jygb...@gmail.com
Humans are not part of nature? No wonder the planet is sick
Really, Mr. Roper (the formality is to avoid confusion between the two
Jims)? You would favor removal of such exotics from North America as wheat,
apples, oranges, horses, cattle, goats, pigs, and honeybees? Wouldn't you
settle for trying to keep them from running wild, rather than eliminating
I'd like to address a number of points raised in this interesting thread:
1. People seem to assume that all early humans were religious and/or
superstitious and only much later developed the rational and logical process
that led to science as we know it. Maybe early humans (with their larger
A good question, Patrick. Why not apply it to other realms of endeavor?
For instance, what is the point of serving others as much as possible? Is
this the only way of making the world a better place? Everyone serving
everyone else is like everyone doing everyone else's laundry; wouldn't it be
of the tunnels
open for ventilation.
Hope this helps.
Martin Meiss
2010/7/1 Merran pantscr...@gmail.com
Hi all,
I'm a first-time poster with a need for advice. I am working in the Utah
Rockies this summer doing revegetation and have been placed in charge of a
small greenhouse
to
it, though I don't know from how far away.
Martin Meiss
2010/7/19 Inigo Howlett inigowalkerhowl...@gmail.com
I have been chosen to give a talk to the volunteer friends of a local
wildlife refuge on the subject of Crayfish. They're fairly common here in
tidewater virginia, but so far, I
Howdie, Ecologers,
I'd like some advice on a digital microscope. The company *American
Science and Surplus* (http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm/category/43) is
selling a digital microscope for $230.00. Here is their product picture and
ad copy (with the blue background):
[image: LCD
One of the best ways to beat the heat is shade. Thus, if the discomfort
leads the citizens of the area to plant more shade trees, shade-tree species
will benefit. Oaks and maples work fine, but so do dozens of other species.
Martin Meiss
2010/8/10 Geoffrey Patton gwpatt
instead
of individual leaves).
I think it would be useful if you went out to your favorite northern
boulder with some data-logging sensors and took some long-term readings.
I hope this helps.
Martin Meiss
2010/8/13 Mark Wilson slugecol...@gmail.com
Hi folks,
I
Dear Mr. McCallum,
I can well understand why you would hate to see a nature reserve
despoiled by drilling, but perhaps there is an important scientific
opportunity here to affect decisions about drilling in the whole Marcellus
Shales region and beyond. Has the research conducted at the
If the citation frequency in question is comprised of citations for drunken
driving, then the correlation becomes more understandable. The original
posting was somewhat vague on this point.
Martin Meiss
2010/9/17 William Silvert cien...@silvert.org
An interesting observation
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