[Elecraft] PX3 interfering with rig control to KX3?

[Bill Frantz]

I was using my KX3 to operate QRP during the California QSO 
party. I had my logging program (RUMlogNG on a Mac) connected 
through the PX3 to the KX3 using an Elecraft USB <--> RS232 
interface cable.


I noticed the computer was not getting the band and frequency 
information from the KX3. When I unplugged the PX3 from the KX3 
and connected the computer directly to the KX3, the computer got 
the frequency/band information correctly, so the PX3 was 
involved in the problem. I spent the rest of the contest 
swapping the plugs in the KX3. :-(


The computer <--> PX4 <--> KX3 combination has worked in the 
past. Is there something flakey in the PX3, of have I set some 
configuration parameter badly? Or? Does anyone have any ideas?


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| Security is like Government  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | services. The market doesn't | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | want to pay for them.| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 problem

[Jack Brindle]

Marvin;

Assuming that you have the AUX I/O cable connected from the KPA500 to the K3, 
and you have RADIO set to K3 in the KPA500 menu, then I suspect you have dialed 
the power down to 0 on the K3 when the KPA is enabled.

The KPA tells the K3 its state when it switches to STBY or OPER. The K3 uses 
this info to set the power level when you have the K3 set for PER BAND power as 
Don mentions. I don’t know if the per-band setting for power includes mode,
but since this is one of the few things the K3 does when the KPA changes its 
operating mode, it makes sense that the problem is a very low power setting in 
the K3.

If this isn’t the situation, be sure to check the AUX I/O cable to make sure 
that none of the pins are bent. Also make sure that pin 11 of the connector is 
missing. If it is not, then I would suggest that you might want to remove it 
and/or turn off the DIGOUT1 signal.

Other than that, Don is right. This is a mystery.

- Jack, W6FB


> On Oct 9, 2017, at 9:29 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> That is a mystery.
> The KPA500 is simply an amplifier, so it should amplify the K3S PEP power for 
> SSB the same as it does for CW.
> Take a look at the drive power from the K3S.  If you are overdriving the 
> KPA500 in SSB, it may be switching in an attenuator.
> That could result from having too much compression on your SSB setting in the 
> K3S.
> Have you set the PER BAND power in the K3S to limit the power to the KPA500 
> when in operate mode?  See the KPA500 manual pages 9 and 10.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 10/9/2017 11:55 PM, marvwhee...@nwlink.com wrote:
>> After switching from cw to sideband I have no output from either the K3S or
>> the KPA500. Simply putting the KPA500 into standby allows output from the
>> K3S. I think I have a switching problem. Where should I look?
>>  Thanks
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Jim Brown]

On 10/9/2017 2:01 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:


Jim –

Good ideas from you, as always.

The impact of RF on the car’s systems interests me the most, as I 
hadn’t thought of it before. Yours was a Sequoia.  Mine will be – if I 
buy it – a Lexus GX which is effectively the Sequoia’s cousin, if not 
half-brother.  So even if I conquer all the challenges of bonding and 
antenna-making and all the rest, there is still the risk that HF RF 
will affect some processor on the vehicle at the worst possible time 
and place?




Yes. BUT -- that was a brand new 2006 model. Let's hope Toyota/Lexus has 
learned something about these issues in 11 years. :)



How do we deal with that sort of problem? Operate QRP only?



I'd say it's a business problem -- that is, between you and 
Toyota/Lexus. It might be worth checking with ARRL about HF mobile in 
current production of these vehicles. MAYBE things have improved. After 
having the issues with my SUV, I did a lot of poking around online and 
found indications that another brand was far better for RFI. But by then 
I'd made a bunch of trips from W9 to W6 and had 45,000 miles on it. :)


Many years ago (1973) I had a HW-101 in a Fiat Spyder, which in those 
days still had the traditional coil and condenser ignition system.  To 
control noise I installed coax  braid over every spark plug wire from 
the distributor and the line from the coil and whatever else I could 
at.  Then one day the braid shorted something at one end or the other 
– right at the point where the Hollywood Freeway goes through Cahuenga 
Pass and (in those days anyway as I remember it) narrows to three 
lane, and at about 5:30 PM. With a cold dead Fiat I blocked at least 
one of those lanes for at least the hour it took me to rip out all the 
braid while suffering the horns and the hand gestures of about 400,000 
people whom I made late for dinner.


I don’t want to ever do that again.  How vulnerable are today’s cars’ 
systems to HF RF?




That's a good question to poke around the internet in general and ARRL 
in particular.  Also ask the guys who do serious mobile operation during 
state QSO parties. W0BH, W4NZ, KU8E, and K4ZGB are some guys who have 
done a lot of this.  They also know how to put out a good signal from a 
mobile -- I've worked several mobiles from TN and GA on 80 CW, including 
K4ZGB last month in the TNQP.  And they will have also solved any issues 
with noise from computers or computer power supplies.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[K9MA]

Most likely, the AC inverter built into the car does not produce a sine 
wave, and your radio probably won't like it.


You could just connect some heavy wire, with a fuse, directly to the 
battery terminals, and run the radio on that.  However, car batteries 
don't deep cycle well at all, and there's the chance of not being able 
to get the engine started.  You can buy a small, 30 AH deep cycle 
battery, which will run a 100W radio for some hours of normal 
operation.  A voltage booster will step the voltage up to 13.8 V, so the 
transmitter will operate at full power.  One big advantage of the 
separate battery is that you can carry it a ways from the parking lot if 
you have to.


Charging the battery from the vehicle is a bit tricky, though. You can't 
just connect it in parallel with the vehicle battery, as the alternator 
will charge it at much to high a current.  I was unable to find an 
affordable commercial device that could safely charge such a battery 
from the vehicle.  One could build a current limiter, but it would take 
some effort.  For me, the path of least resistance was to buy a 120V 
battery charger, and run it on a 150W sine wave inverter I already had.  
(Using the above connections to the vehicle battery; that's a bit much 
for the cigarette lighter plug.)  Such a charger may or may not work 
with the built in inverter in the vehicle.


73,
Scott K9MA

On 10/8/2017 22:19, Dauer, Edward wrote:

Previous threads provided a great deal of info about arranging automobile 
electrical systems to power HF rigs.  But as I recall, it all focused on using 
the battery / alternator supply for the 13 VDC.  Though I wanted to go mobile 
and still do, for a number of reasons I could not configure my car to do it 
properly.  I am now thinking of buying a new SUV which has 117 VAC outlets in 
its rear cargo space.  That makes me wonder – could I just use an ordinary 117 
VAC to 13 VDC power supply, exactly as I do at home, just plug it in and – 
staying within the car’s rated current draw – operate without worrying about 
where the ground goes vis-à-vis the battery, what-all needs to be bonded with 
what-all-else, how everything needs to be mummified in ferrite, etc?  Or are 
the problems all the same even though different?  My objective is simple.  I 
want to be able to drive to a rare county, set up my buddipole in a parking 
lot, and use either a XX3/KXPA or a K2/100 to knock out some CW QSOs.  I do NOT 
want to take an electric drill or a rivet gun to a new car.

Has anyone gone mobile using a car’s 117 VAC outlets?  Any thoughts to share?  
Any thoughts from anyone who for any reason hasn’t done it?

Ted, KN1CBR  (operating this week as N0A in the NAQCC anniversary event.  Give 
a call if you hear me.  Mostly 20 or 40 CW)

Tnx.

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--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 problem

[Don Wilhelm]

That is a mystery.
The KPA500 is simply an amplifier, so it should amplify the K3S PEP 
power for SSB the same as it does for CW.
Take a look at the drive power from the K3S.  If you are overdriving the 
KPA500 in SSB, it may be switching in an attenuator.
That could result from having too much compression on your SSB setting 
in the K3S.
Have you set the PER BAND power in the K3S to limit the power to the 
KPA500 when in operate mode?  See the KPA500 manual pages 9 and 10.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/9/2017 11:55 PM, marvwhee...@nwlink.com wrote:

After switching from cw to sideband I have no output from either the K3S or
the KPA500. Simply putting the KPA500 into standby allows output from the
K3S. I think I have a switching problem. Where should I look?

  


Thanks

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[Elecraft] KPA500 problem

[marvwheeler]

After switching from cw to sideband I have no output from either the K3S or
the KPA500. Simply putting the KPA500 into standby allows output from the
K3S. I think I have a switching problem. Where should I look?

 

Thanks

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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Those were the days when a mobile operator would make his engine stall by 
pressing the PTT when the engine was idling at a stop light. 

One guy I knew tore out the whole back seat of his sedan and filled it with a 
KW AM rig (bachelor of course). His mobile antenna featured a copper toilet 
tank float on top to avoid corona discharge on transmit. 

Back then RF radiation levels were consider harmless at any level or frequency. 
There is the well-documented story of the Microwave engineer at Raytheon who 
discovered a chocolate bar in his shirt pocket suddenly melted. He figured out 
that he was standing in front of the open port of a magnetron. And the 
"Microwave Oven" (back then a "Radar Range") was born. 

Working at Lockheed Aircraft Service one night on the F-86 flight line I 
thought I was coming down with the flu because I was suddenly sweaty on a cold, 
winter night. Then I noticed that the fire control radar on one of the F-86's 
nearby with the radome off was "looking" right at me. I moved several meters to 
one side and the dish followed me. I was being irradiated by the RF, raising my 
body temperature. I just moved further away. No one thought that was 
remarkable. 

We have become much more sensitive to such things. But it was not always so, 
even for the current generation of Hams. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:34 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

I recall a construction article a long time ago (mid 1960's) in GE Ham News 
where W8DLD constructed a 1KW mobile linear using a pair of Grounded Grid 814 
tubes and developed the HV from a modified alternator to bring the 3 phase AC 
out and run it to 3 transformers.

Of course, in those days, there were no computers in vehicles to be concerned 
about, and there was plenty of room in the vehicle to mount the exciter, 
usually under the center of the dashboard.  Remember that the Collins KM1 and 
KM2 were designed as mobile transceivers, and they were much larger than the K3.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/9/2017 7:14 PM, Bob Nielsen wrote:
> In the late 1980s WB6FDR showed me his mobile station that had a Kenwood 
> rig with a small control head which he had mounted on the dash of his 
> Mercedes.  The rest of the rig plus a KW amp all fit in the trunk.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Eric J]

I ran a similar setup. I built a homebrew version of the HA-14 (HW-12 was a 
xceiver). Same 572B tubes and powered it with Heath's DC power supply for the 
HA-14. Plate voltage was around 2200 volts. Drove it with a National NCX-3 in a 
brand new '65 Dodge R/T. Antenna was also homebrew.

I never had a problem drilling holes in new cars. Do a neat job and it's easily 
repaired when you trade it. I never had a problem at trade-in time.

Simpler cars in those days. Even my bike is computer controlled now.

Eric

KE6US

On 10/9/2017 4:55 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

Back in the late 1960's, I ran a SBE 33 and a HW12 compact kilowatt in a Ford 
Econcom PU, with a Texas bug catcher antenna and NE2s around the Top Hat.  
HP pulled me over and said I could not do that, causing drivers to swerve all 
over the place behind me.. FUN.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Dave Fugleberg 
 To: Fred Jensen ; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:30 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

My friend had a jeep wrangler (2012 model IIRC ) that we used for VHF
roving with no issues. When we tried the same vehicle on HF, some bands
were ok and some caused havoc with the vehicle electronics. Transmit on 15m
at 100 watts triggered the wipers... 40m lit up every indicator on the
dash.
We switched to my 2015 F-150 with almost all the options, and have no such
problems. Same rig, same antenna. However, the truck creates some hash in
the HF receiver. So, there can be a lot of differences between vehicles.
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:48 PM Fred Jensen 
 wrote:



In my previous 2003 Chevy Silverado, I had my TS-850 on a picnic table,
running off the truck battery with jumper cables to the PowerPole
distribution block and the engine idling.  As soon as I sent the first
CW, both front seats moved totally forward and then refused to move
back, steering wheel now blocking entrance.  Antenna was a dipole in the
tree, hanging over the truck.  Disconnecting the battery cable for a
minute or so rebooted the seat computer and it began working. A 40W 440
MHz transmitter affected the cruise control in a 1991 Ford Ranger.
Fortunately, it just disengaged it rather than setting the speed target
at 120 mph.

I got a 2017 Honda Ridgeline last Feb, I'm still working through
understanding the "UI" for it, but given how much automation is
involved, I will not put HF mobile in it.  Automobiles have changed
since Dad let me put the PE-103 powered 10m transmitter in the trunk of
the family Plymouth.  The seat computer in the Chevy [one of seven in
the truck not counting whatever was in the radio] had 320 KB of ROM, 64
KB RAM, and cycled at 100 ns, all just to move the seats back and
forth.  The Apollo Guidance Computer had 32 KB of 16-bit hardwired core
memory, 2 KB of read-write core, and cycled at 10 ms for most
instructions, to go to the moon and back.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/9/2017 2:01 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:


So even if I conquer all the challenges of bonding and antenna-making


and all the rest, there is still the risk that HF RF will affect some
processor on the vehicle at the worst possible time and place?  How do we
deal with that sort of problem?  Operate QRP only?

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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Carl Yaffey1]

A memory:
1955 I was at the Virginia Phone Net picnic at a farm. A guy pulls up in a 
Plymouth coupe with a huge plastic box on the roof with large coils and 
capacitors showing. Sticking out of it was a long vertical antenna.
He stepped out. He had a microphone harness on which had probably been from the 
Navy. He pushed a button on it and a huge whine erupted from the trunk. He then 
pointed a piece of wood near the vertical and drew a tremendous arc to it.
He opened the trunk and we saw several large dynamotors and many batteries. 
Yes, he had a 75M kilowatt AM rig. Pretty amazing.

Carl Yaffey  K8NU
Recording studio.
cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Major Firmware Update

[ke8g.jim]

Make sure to read the release notes, as I know if you are updating a certain
version, you will need to do the calibration again, so a dummy load is
needed.

It's all pretty much guided by the utility, make sure to download the newest
K3 utility first, then do the update.

73 de Jim - KE8G

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Miller
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 8:13 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - Major Firmware Update

My K3 is sn 14xx and has not been upgraded since the K3S and the new
synthesizers came out.  It is running fine but I wonder about updating the
ucode because the new stuff is not in it.  I also have not updated my K3
Utility.  

 

IF I am going to update the firmware, I suppose I should get the newest
Utility and then go ahead and just do it all at once from 4.86 to 5.60 and
all the others too.  They all have new versions.

 

Is this dangerous?  Will I kill my radio?

 

Is there any advantage for me to do so as I have not put any of the K3S
stuff in my radio?

 

Should I do it anyway?

 

Thanks, 73, Jim KG0KP

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Major Firmware Update

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

The K3 Utility sorts all that out.  Upgrade the firmware and keep it 
upgraded periodically.  Save a configuration file before and after this 
upgrade.


Look at the Firmware Release notes between your existing firmware level 
and the current version to see what has changed.
The Firmware Release Notes are an effective "addition to the K3 manual" 
do not skip that information.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/9/2017 8:12 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

My K3 is sn 14xx and has not been upgraded since the K3S and the new
synthesizers came out.  It is running fine but I wonder about updating the
ucode because the new stuff is not in it.  I also have not updated my K3
Utility.

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[Elecraft] (OT) - FOR SALE

[stan levandowski]

Rebuilding my entire station from the ground up -- with Elecraft gear of 
course!


Following extra "stuff" is for sale.  Please contact me off list if 
interested.



1. Elecraft W1 PWR/SWR meter.  Purchased January 2017.  Works perfectly. 
$60.  Includes shipping.



2. Samlex SEC-1235M 13.8VDC 30A Power Supply.  Purchased January 2017.  
Mint Condx.  $75.  Includes shipping.



73, Stan WB2LQF
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Major Firmware Update

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

Update to the latest utility version first.  Then, just put up the LATEST 
firmware version.  You don’t have to do all of the intervening releases.  No, 
it won’t kill your radio.  Make sure you read all of the release notes since 
whatever version you have installed.

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 8:12 PM, Jim Miller  wrote:
> 
> My K3 is sn 14xx and has not been upgraded since the K3S and the new
> synthesizers came out.  It is running fine but I wonder about updating the
> ucode because the new stuff is not in it.  I also have not updated my K3
> Utility.  
> 
> 
> 
> IF I am going to update the firmware, I suppose I should get the newest
> Utility and then go ahead and just do it all at once from 4.86 to 5.60 and
> all the others too.  They all have new versions.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this dangerous?  Will I kill my radio?
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any advantage for me to do so as I have not put any of the K3S
> stuff in my radio?
> 
> 
> 
> Should I do it anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, 73, Jim KG0KP
> 
> __
> 

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342



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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Tox]

I hate to think how much of that kilowatt got absorbed by the operator.

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> I recall a construction article a long time ago (mid 1960's) in GE Ham
> News where W8DLD constructed a 1KW mobile linear using a pair of Grounded
> Grid 814 tubes and developed the HV from a modified alternator to bring the
> 3 phase AC out and run it to 3 transformers.
>
> Of course, in those days, there were no computers in vehicles to be
> concerned about, and there was plenty of room in the vehicle to mount the
> exciter, usually under the center of the dashboard.  Remember that the
> Collins KM1 and KM2 were designed as mobile transceivers, and they were
> much larger than the K3.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 10/9/2017 7:14 PM, Bob Nielsen wrote:
>
>> In the late 1980s WB6FDR showed me his mobile station that had a Kenwood
>> rig with a small control head which he had mounted on the dash of his
>> Mercedes.  The rest of the rig plus a KW amp all fit in the trunk.
>>
>> __
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-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] SPE 1K-FA Amp hookup and ALC Question

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

For the K3S, I suggest reading Fred Cady's book, specifically page 170 
{9.2 Automatic Level Control - ALC} , page 222 {To ALC or Not to ALC}, 
and page 291 {EXT ALC} for particulars.   In summary, Elecraft does not  
advise using ALC from the amp.


Personal opinion, the amp should provide adequate protection for high 
SWR and excessive drive.   It should not rely on other means for 
protection.


73
Bob, K4TAX



On 10/9/2017 6:16 PM, M. George wrote:

I have an SPE 2K-FA I'm using with a K3S... very happy with it.  I made a
verbose YouTube  video early
on after I received the amp which gets into the details of making the
interface cable.  (these days guys can pass the Extra Class exam but they
can't make a simple interface cable to an amplifier... ;) )  All of the
details would apply to the 1K-FA.

As others have stated, don't use ALC on the K3 to control the output of
your SPE amp, however it is viable as a safety measure to let the amp drop
the K3 output if it's software deems necessary. (despite what you will read
in the SPE manual where it says just crank the power output on your exciter
all the way up and let the amp control the output via ALC)  I get into the
details around this in the video several times.  You can fast forward and
find the areas you are interested in related to the cable interface to the
K3.

Here is the link to the video again... I hope you find something helpful...
related to your 1K-FA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku8Gyl0amRY

Max NG7M





On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX 
wrote:


I agree with Jim, K9YC on the ALC points.

With older radios, namely tube types which required the exciter PA to be
loaded correctly to be linear, this power level would overdrive many
amplifiers.   Hence ALC from the amp to the transceiver/transmitter was
required to control the drive power.

Today's radios have much more accurate power control methods. These
methods are far superior to those found in most amps.   Most solid state
amps have adequate protection with regard to overdrive, again ALC from the
amp to the radio is not needed. And as Jim indicated, if one chooses to use
ALC from the amp to the transceiver and it is not properly adjusted, one
can expect signal report issues and unfriendly neighbors on the radio
spectrum.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 10/9/2017 4:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:


On 10/9/2017 12:48 PM, Clay Autery wrote:


I'm being given an SPE 1K-FA for use with my fully current K3s.

I'm being told that the K3s and SPE don't play well together using "ALC".
A conflicting report is telling me that Elecraft addressed the ALC issue.


I owned one of these amps for a few months, having bought it to get more
power on 6M than the KPA500 did.  I didn't like it much. You probably know
that ALC should NEVER be used between a rig and an amp to set the output
power. That's a recipe for creating harmonics, clicks, and splatter. The
right way to do it is to reduce drive power. If you're going to use ALC at
all, set output power by reducing drive and use ALC ONLY to protect the amp
when something goes wrong with an antenna (like the operator connecting the
wrong one). :)

73. Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] K3 - Major Firmware Update

[Jim Miller]

My K3 is sn 14xx and has not been upgraded since the K3S and the new
synthesizers came out.  It is running fine but I wonder about updating the
ucode because the new stuff is not in it.  I also have not updated my K3
Utility.  

 

IF I am going to update the firmware, I suppose I should get the newest
Utility and then go ahead and just do it all at once from 4.86 to 5.60 and
all the others too.  They all have new versions.

 

Is this dangerous?  Will I kill my radio?

 

Is there any advantage for me to do so as I have not put any of the K3S
stuff in my radio?

 

Should I do it anyway?

 

Thanks, 73, Jim KG0KP

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

There's nothing like doing the job correct, and Kent's installations 
seem to indicate such.


I've used my Tentec 599 Eagle in my 2005 GMC Somona with a Hustler array 
on the rear, power cables direct to the battery.  No issues any band 80 
- 6 meters.   Same basic configuration and installation in the travel 
trailer.  It does however slightly "modulate" the interior LED bulbs on CW.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 10/9/2017 4:45 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:
I can offer only my personal mobile experiences over 46 years, for 
what it's worth:


1971 Plymouth Sport Fury
FT-101E mounted over transmission hump
Power cable direct from car's battery to rig
Hustler rear-deck-lid-mounted antenna
Many 140-watt HF CW QSOs
No problems with any function of the car itself

1980 Chrysler Cordoba
FT-101E mounted over transmission hump
Exactly the same set-up and connections
No problems with any function of the car itself

1984 Oldsmobile 98 Brougham
1989 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1992 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1994 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
Raising kids, no rig in any of the above cars

2000 Cadillac DHS
FT-100D under-dash mounted
Many 100-watt mobile CW QSOs, hundreds of VHF/UHF FM QSOs
Power cable direct from car's battery to rig
ATAS-120 mounted on left side of trunk lid for HF
Comet 5/8 wave dual-band mounted on right side of trunk lid (VHF/UHF)
Diamond-K400 trunk mounts for both antennas
One-inch braid between trunk lid and something very metal and 
substantial (can't remember what) inside the trunk
No problems with any accessories, navigation, or display screen at 
either 100 or 50 watt levels


2006 Cadillac DTS
FT-100D under-dash mounted
Same set-up and connections
No problems with any accessories, navigation, or display screen at 
either 100 or 50 watt levels


2010 Mercedes-Benz E550
FT-857D control head in dash, RF deck under seat
Exactly same set-up and connections
No problems with any accessories, navigation, or display screen at 
either 100 or 50 watt levels


2017 Lincoln Continental
FT-857D control head in dash, RF deck under seat
Exactly same set-up and connections
Running only VHF/UHF at 50 watts so far
No problems with any accessories, navigation, or display screen

Not being an E.E. and not knowing any better, I probably did it all 
wrong.


73,

Kent  K9ZTV


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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Back in the late 1960's, I ran a SBE 33 and a HW12 compact kilowatt in a Ford 
Econcom PU, with a Texas bug catcher antenna and NE2s around the Top Hat.  
HP pulled me over and said I could not do that, causing drivers to swerve all 
over the place behind me.. FUN.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Dave Fugleberg 
 To: Fred Jensen ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:30 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC
   
My friend had a jeep wrangler (2012 model IIRC ) that we used for VHF
roving with no issues. When we tried the same vehicle on HF, some bands
were ok and some caused havoc with the vehicle electronics. Transmit on 15m
at 100 watts triggered the wipers... 40m lit up every indicator on the
dash.
We switched to my 2015 F-150 with almost all the options, and have no such
problems. Same rig, same antenna. However, the truck creates some hash in
the HF receiver. So, there can be a lot of differences between vehicles.
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:48 PM Fred Jensen  wrote:

> In my previous 2003 Chevy Silverado, I had my TS-850 on a picnic table,
> running off the truck battery with jumper cables to the PowerPole
> distribution block and the engine idling.  As soon as I sent the first
> CW, both front seats moved totally forward and then refused to move
> back, steering wheel now blocking entrance.  Antenna was a dipole in the
> tree, hanging over the truck.  Disconnecting the battery cable for a
> minute or so rebooted the seat computer and it began working. A 40W 440
> MHz transmitter affected the cruise control in a 1991 Ford Ranger.
> Fortunately, it just disengaged it rather than setting the speed target
> at 120 mph.
>
> I got a 2017 Honda Ridgeline last Feb, I'm still working through
> understanding the "UI" for it, but given how much automation is
> involved, I will not put HF mobile in it.  Automobiles have changed
> since Dad let me put the PE-103 powered 10m transmitter in the trunk of
> the family Plymouth.  The seat computer in the Chevy [one of seven in
> the truck not counting whatever was in the radio] had 320 KB of ROM, 64
> KB RAM, and cycled at 100 ns, all just to move the seats back and
> forth.  The Apollo Guidance Computer had 32 KB of 16-bit hardwired core
> memory, 2 KB of read-write core, and cycled at 10 ms for most
> instructions, to go to the moon and back.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 10/9/2017 2:01 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
> > So even if I conquer all the challenges of bonding and antenna-making
> and all the rest, there is still the risk that HF RF will affect some
> processor on the vehicle at the worst possible time and place?  How do we
> deal with that sort of problem?  Operate QRP only?
>
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Re: [Elecraft] SPE 1K-FA Amp hookup and ALC Question

[Clay Autery]

Yep...  Thanks Jim...  I had remembered reading about this, but not 
having an amp at the time, I glossed over it.


Thanks to re-reading manual and Fred's book, AND to several responses, I 
am fully informed now!



Case closed :-)


73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 10/9/2017 4:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 10/9/2017 12:48 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

I'm being given an SPE 1K-FA for use with my fully current K3s.

I'm being told that the K3s and SPE don't play well together using 
"ALC".
A conflicting report is telling me that Elecraft addressed the ALC 
issue.


I owned one of these amps for a few months, having bought it to get 
more power on 6M than the KPA500 did.  I didn't like it much. You 
probably know that ALC should NEVER be used between a rig and an amp 
to set the output power. That's a recipe for creating harmonics, 
clicks, and splatter. The right way to do it is to reduce drive power. 
If you're going to use ALC at all, set output power by reducing drive 
and use ALC ONLY to protect the amp when something goes wrong with an 
antenna (like the operator connecting the wrong one). :)


73. Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Don Wilhelm]

I recall a construction article a long time ago (mid 1960's) in GE Ham 
News where W8DLD constructed a 1KW mobile linear using a pair of 
Grounded Grid 814 tubes and developed the HV from a modified alternator 
to bring the 3 phase AC out and run it to 3 transformers.


Of course, in those days, there were no computers in vehicles to be 
concerned about, and there was plenty of room in the vehicle to mount 
the exciter, usually under the center of the dashboard.  Remember that 
the Collins KM1 and KM2 were designed as mobile transceivers, and they 
were much larger than the K3.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/9/2017 7:14 PM, Bob Nielsen wrote:
In the late 1980s WB6FDR showed me his mobile station that had a Kenwood 
rig with a small control head which he had mounted on the dash of his 
Mercedes.  The rest of the rig plus a KW amp all fit in the trunk.



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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Yes, the water cooled antenna amplifier was a Dalmo Motor inverter and Jennings 
2w300b tetrode amplifier I had one.  I still have the amp and manuals.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Bob Nielsen 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 4:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?
   
In the late 1980s WB6FDR showed me his mobile station that had a Kenwood 
rig with a small control head which he had mounted on the dash of his 
Mercedes.  The rest of the rig plus a KW amp all fit in the trunk.

I recall that one of the old W6SAI handbooks showed a mobile rig with an 
amp that used water cooling.

Bob, N7XY


On 10/9/17 3:46 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
> Interesting photos of my Elmer's mobile though:
>
> http://www.k0bg.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1039
>
> On 10/9/2017 3:11 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> Yeah, just remember..everything written and printed and found 
>> on the web is not necessarily correct, nor accurate, and not of the 
>> current methodology of doing things.  I find that a lot of info 
>> borders on what someone told their brother in law, that has a 3rd 
>> cousin who was a neighbor of a ham some 20 years ago.  Of course in 
>> that caseonce it is said it must be fact!
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob K4TAX
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Dave Fugleberg]

My friend had a jeep wrangler (2012 model IIRC ) that we used for VHF
roving with no issues. When we tried the same vehicle on HF, some bands
were ok and some caused havoc with the vehicle electronics. Transmit on 15m
at 100 watts triggered the wipers... 40m lit up every indicator on the
dash.
We switched to my 2015 F-150 with almost all the options, and have no such
problems. Same rig, same antenna. However, the truck creates some hash in
the HF receiver. So, there can be a lot of differences between vehicles.
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:48 PM Fred Jensen  wrote:

> In my previous 2003 Chevy Silverado, I had my TS-850 on a picnic table,
> running off the truck battery with jumper cables to the PowerPole
> distribution block and the engine idling.  As soon as I sent the first
> CW, both front seats moved totally forward and then refused to move
> back, steering wheel now blocking entrance.  Antenna was a dipole in the
> tree, hanging over the truck.  Disconnecting the battery cable for a
> minute or so rebooted the seat computer and it began working. A 40W 440
> MHz transmitter affected the cruise control in a 1991 Ford Ranger.
> Fortunately, it just disengaged it rather than setting the speed target
> at 120 mph.
>
> I got a 2017 Honda Ridgeline last Feb, I'm still working through
> understanding the "UI" for it, but given how much automation is
> involved, I will not put HF mobile in it.  Automobiles have changed
> since Dad let me put the PE-103 powered 10m transmitter in the trunk of
> the family Plymouth.  The seat computer in the Chevy [one of seven in
> the truck not counting whatever was in the radio] had 320 KB of ROM, 64
> KB RAM, and cycled at 100 ns, all just to move the seats back and
> forth.  The Apollo Guidance Computer had 32 KB of 16-bit hardwired core
> memory, 2 KB of read-write core, and cycled at 10 ms for most
> instructions, to go to the moon and back.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 10/9/2017 2:01 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
> > So even if I conquer all the challenges of bonding and antenna-making
> and all the rest, there is still the risk that HF RF will affect some
> processor on the vehicle at the worst possible time and place?  How do we
> deal with that sort of problem?  Operate QRP only?
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] SPE 1K-FA Amp hookup and ALC Question

[M. George]

I have an SPE 2K-FA I'm using with a K3S... very happy with it.  I made a
verbose YouTube  video early
on after I received the amp which gets into the details of making the
interface cable.  (these days guys can pass the Extra Class exam but they
can't make a simple interface cable to an amplifier... ;) )  All of the
details would apply to the 1K-FA.

As others have stated, don't use ALC on the K3 to control the output of
your SPE amp, however it is viable as a safety measure to let the amp drop
the K3 output if it's software deems necessary. (despite what you will read
in the SPE manual where it says just crank the power output on your exciter
all the way up and let the amp control the output via ALC)  I get into the
details around this in the video several times.  You can fast forward and
find the areas you are interested in related to the cable interface to the
K3.

Here is the link to the video again... I hope you find something helpful...
related to your 1K-FA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku8Gyl0amRY

Max NG7M





On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX 
wrote:

> I agree with Jim, K9YC on the ALC points.
>
> With older radios, namely tube types which required the exciter PA to be
> loaded correctly to be linear, this power level would overdrive many
> amplifiers.   Hence ALC from the amp to the transceiver/transmitter was
> required to control the drive power.
>
> Today's radios have much more accurate power control methods. These
> methods are far superior to those found in most amps.   Most solid state
> amps have adequate protection with regard to overdrive, again ALC from the
> amp to the radio is not needed. And as Jim indicated, if one chooses to use
> ALC from the amp to the transceiver and it is not properly adjusted, one
> can expect signal report issues and unfriendly neighbors on the radio
> spectrum.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 10/9/2017 4:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
>> On 10/9/2017 12:48 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>>
>>> I'm being given an SPE 1K-FA for use with my fully current K3s.
>>>
>>> I'm being told that the K3s and SPE don't play well together using "ALC".
>>> A conflicting report is telling me that Elecraft addressed the ALC issue.
>>>
>>
>> I owned one of these amps for a few months, having bought it to get more
>> power on 6M than the KPA500 did.  I didn't like it much. You probably know
>> that ALC should NEVER be used between a rig and an amp to set the output
>> power. That's a recipe for creating harmonics, clicks, and splatter. The
>> right way to do it is to reduce drive power. If you're going to use ALC at
>> all, set output power by reducing drive and use ALC ONLY to protect the amp
>> when something goes wrong with an antenna (like the operator connecting the
>> wrong one). :)
>>
>> 73. Jim K9YC
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-- 
M. George
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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Bob Nielsen]

In the late 1980s WB6FDR showed me his mobile station that had a Kenwood 
rig with a small control head which he had mounted on the dash of his 
Mercedes.  The rest of the rig plus a KW amp all fit in the trunk.


I recall that one of the old W6SAI handbooks showed a mobile rig with an 
amp that used water cooling.


Bob, N7XY


On 10/9/17 3:46 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

Interesting photos of my Elmer's mobile though:

http://www.k0bg.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1039

On 10/9/2017 3:11 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Yeah, just remember..everything written and printed and found 
on the web is not necessarily correct, nor accurate, and not of the 
current methodology of doing things.  I find that a lot of info 
borders on what someone told their brother in law, that has a 3rd 
cousin who was a neighbor of a ham some 20 years ago.  Of course in 
that caseonce it is said it must be fact!


73

Bob K4TAX


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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Wes Stewart]

Interesting photos of my Elmer's mobile though:

http://www.k0bg.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1039

On 10/9/2017 3:11 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Yeah, just remember..everything written and printed and found on the 
web is not necessarily correct, nor accurate, and not of the current 
methodology of doing things.  I find that a lot of info borders on what 
someone told their brother in law, that has a 3rd cousin who was a neighbor of 
a ham some 20 years ago.  Of course in that caseonce it is said it 
must be fact!


73

Bob K4TAX


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[Elecraft] NAQCC October Sprint this Tuesday Evening

[Larry W2LJ]

The October NAQCC sprint is this coming Tuesday evening local time (October 
10th,
EDT - 8:30-10:30PM, CDT - 7:30-9:30PM, MDT - 6:30-8:30PM, PDT - 5:30-7:30PM),
which translates as Wednesday, October 11th, 0030 to 0230Z in all cases.

For all the "official" information, please go to:

http://naqcc.info/sprint/sprint201710.html

There you will find all the details as to time, frequencies and other important
information.

Certificates: SWA (simple wire antennas) certificates by call area, VE and DX
for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishers (New!). A Certificate for top score in the
GAIN antenna category.

Prizes: Too many to list!! - check out the prizes page on our website.

This is a monthly event that caters to the CW veteran, the CW newcomer, straight
key and bug fans. All are welcome to participate (this includes QRO); but you
must use QRP power levels to compete for awards.

If you've been hesitant to join in our sprints because you hear other sprints
running at breakneck speeds, have no fear. Our sprints are geared to the
newcomer to CW and/or contesting. Virtually everyone including the many veteran
contesters who regularly enter our sprints will slow down to YOUR speed to help
you make your contacts.

If you are not already a member of NAQCC... membership is FREE! Now is your
chance to join the largest QRP CW Club in the world!! We currently have 9000+
members in: All 50 States - 9 VE Provinces - 100 Countries. Sign up on the
NAQCC website today (http://naqcc.info/) and receive a handsome certificate,
with your membership number on it, which is good for life.

Come join us and have a real good time, and hunt for the NAQCC Anniversary 
stations, too!


72/73 de Larry W2LJ
NAQCC #35

for NAQCC
http://naqcc.info/
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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Yeah, just remember..everything written and printed and found on 
the web is not necessarily correct, nor accurate, and not of the current 
methodology of doing things.  I find that a lot of info borders on what 
someone told their brother in law, that has a 3rd cousin who was a 
neighbor of a ham some 20 years ago.  Of course in that caseonce 
it is said it must be fact!


73

Bob K4TAX


On 10/9/2017 4:59 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 10/9/2017 1:49 PM, Robert 'RC' Conley wrote:

This is a web site you absolutely must read


I looked at this website several years ago, found things that were 
dead wrong from and RFI perspective, and took them up with the author 
who refused to accept my advice. I didn't bother to read further. 
There may be some good stuff there, but I don't recommend the site.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] SPE 1K-FA Amp hookup and ALC Question

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I agree with Jim, K9YC on the ALC points.

With older radios, namely tube types which required the exciter PA to be 
loaded correctly to be linear, this power level would overdrive many 
amplifiers.   Hence ALC from the amp to the transceiver/transmitter was 
required to control the drive power.


Today's radios have much more accurate power control methods. These 
methods are far superior to those found in most amps.   Most solid state 
amps have adequate protection with regard to overdrive, again ALC from 
the amp to the radio is not needed. And as Jim indicated, if one chooses 
to use ALC from the amp to the transceiver and it is not properly 
adjusted, one can expect signal report issues and unfriendly neighbors 
on the radio spectrum.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 10/9/2017 4:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 10/9/2017 12:48 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

I'm being given an SPE 1K-FA for use with my fully current K3s.

I'm being told that the K3s and SPE don't play well together using 
"ALC".
A conflicting report is telling me that Elecraft addressed the ALC 
issue.


I owned one of these amps for a few months, having bought it to get 
more power on 6M than the KPA500 did.  I didn't like it much. You 
probably know that ALC should NEVER be used between a rig and an amp 
to set the output power. That's a recipe for creating harmonics, 
clicks, and splatter. The right way to do it is to reduce drive power. 
If you're going to use ALC at all, set output power by reducing drive 
and use ALC ONLY to protect the amp when something goes wrong with an 
antenna (like the operator connecting the wrong one). :)


73. Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Jim Brown]

On 10/9/2017 1:49 PM, Robert 'RC' Conley wrote:

This is a web site you absolutely must read


I looked at this website several years ago, found things that were dead 
wrong from and RFI perspective, and took them up with the author who 
refused to accept my advice. I didn't bother to read further. There may 
be some good stuff there, but I don't recommend the site.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] SPE 1K-FA Amp hookup and ALC Question

[Jim Brown]

On 10/9/2017 12:48 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

I'm being given an SPE 1K-FA for use with my fully current K3s.

I'm being told that the K3s and SPE don't play well together using "ALC".
A conflicting report is telling me that Elecraft addressed the ALC issue.


I owned one of these amps for a few months, having bought it to get more 
power on 6M than the KPA500 did.  I didn't like it much. You probably 
know that ALC should NEVER be used between a rig and an amp to set the 
output power. That's a recipe for creating harmonics, clicks, and 
splatter. The right way to do it is to reduce drive power. If you're 
going to use ALC at all, set output power by reducing drive and use ALC 
ONLY to protect the amp when something goes wrong with an antenna (like 
the operator connecting the wrong one). :)


73. Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Fred Jensen]

In my previous 2003 Chevy Silverado, I had my TS-850 on a picnic table, 
running off the truck battery with jumper cables to the PowerPole 
distribution block and the engine idling.  As soon as I sent the first 
CW, both front seats moved totally forward and then refused to move 
back, steering wheel now blocking entrance.  Antenna was a dipole in the 
tree, hanging over the truck.  Disconnecting the battery cable for a 
minute or so rebooted the seat computer and it began working. A 40W 440 
MHz transmitter affected the cruise control in a 1991 Ford Ranger. 
Fortunately, it just disengaged it rather than setting the speed target 
at 120 mph.


I got a 2017 Honda Ridgeline last Feb, I'm still working through 
understanding the "UI" for it, but given how much automation is 
involved, I will not put HF mobile in it.  Automobiles have changed 
since Dad let me put the PE-103 powered 10m transmitter in the trunk of 
the family Plymouth.  The seat computer in the Chevy [one of seven in 
the truck not counting whatever was in the radio] had 320 KB of ROM, 64 
KB RAM, and cycled at 100 ns, all just to move the seats back and 
forth.  The Apollo Guidance Computer had 32 KB of 16-bit hardwired core 
memory, 2 KB of read-write core, and cycled at 10 ms for most 
instructions, to go to the moon and back.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/9/2017 2:01 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

So even if I conquer all the challenges of bonding and antenna-making and all 
the rest, there is still the risk that HF RF will affect some processor on the 
vehicle at the worst possible time and place?  How do we deal with that sort of 
problem?  Operate QRP only?


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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[KENT TRIMBLE]

I can offer only my personal mobile experiences over 46 years, for what 
it's worth:


1971 Plymouth Sport Fury
FT-101E mounted over transmission hump
Power cable direct from car's battery to rig
Hustler rear-deck-lid-mounted antenna
Many 140-watt HF CW QSOs
No problems with any function of the car itself

1980 Chrysler Cordoba
FT-101E mounted over transmission hump
Exactly the same set-up and connections
No problems with any function of the car itself

1984 Oldsmobile 98 Brougham
1989 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1992 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1994 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
Raising kids, no rig in any of the above cars

2000 Cadillac DHS
FT-100D under-dash mounted
Many 100-watt mobile CW QSOs, hundreds of VHF/UHF FM QSOs
Power cable direct from car's battery to rig
ATAS-120 mounted on left side of trunk lid for HF
Comet 5/8 wave dual-band mounted on right side of trunk lid (VHF/UHF)
Diamond-K400 trunk mounts for both antennas
One-inch braid between trunk lid and something very metal and 
substantial (can't remember what) inside the trunk
No problems with any accessories, navigation, or display screen at 
either 100 or 50 watt levels


2006 Cadillac DTS
FT-100D under-dash mounted
Same set-up and connections
No problems with any accessories, navigation, or display screen at 
either 100 or 50 watt levels


2010 Mercedes-Benz E550
FT-857D control head in dash, RF deck under seat
Exactly same set-up and connections
No problems with any accessories, navigation, or display screen at 
either 100 or 50 watt levels


2017 Lincoln Continental
FT-857D control head in dash, RF deck under seat
Exactly same set-up and connections
Running only VHF/UHF at 50 watts so far
No problems with any accessories, navigation, or display screen

Not being an E.E. and not knowing any better, I probably did it all wrong.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV


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[Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Dauer, Edward]

Jim -

Good ideas from you, as always.

The impact of RF on the car's systems interests me the most, as I hadn't 
thought of it before.  Yours was a Sequoia.  Mine will be - if I buy it - a 
Lexus GX which is effectively the Sequoia's cousin, if not half-brother.  So 
even if I conquer all the challenges of bonding and antenna-making and all the 
rest, there is still the risk that HF RF will affect some processor on the 
vehicle at the worst possible time and place?  How do we deal with that sort of 
problem?  Operate QRP only?

Many years ago (1973) I had a HW-101 in a Fiat Spyder, which in those days 
still had the traditional coil and condenser ignition system.  To control noise 
I installed coax  braid over every spark plug wire from the distributor and the 
line from the coil and whatever else I could at.  Then one day the braid 
shorted something at one end or the other - right at the point where the 
Hollywood Freeway goes through Cahuenga Pass and (in those days anyway as I 
remember it) narrows to three lane, and at about 5:30 PM.  With a cold dead 
Fiat I blocked at least one of those lanes for at least the hour it took me to 
rip out all the braid while suffering the horns and the hand gestures of about 
400,000 people whom I made late for dinner.

I don't want to ever do that again.  How vulnerable are today's cars' systems 
to HF RF?

Ted, KN1CBR
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[Elecraft] Mobile radio

[k5...@arrl.net]

Bad link for Alan K0BG try
http://www.k0bg.com/wiring.html 

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 CW POWER ISSUE

[Don Wilhelm]

Gerry,

The KX3 can be used at up to 15 watts for all modes below 20 meters. 
Above that band it is reduced to 12 watts.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/9/2017 4:41 PM, Gerry Miller wrote:

  I NOTICED LAST NIGHT THAT WHEN IN CW MODE MY POWER OUTPUT WENT TO THE 
PREVIOUS SSB SETTING OF 14W.  I THOUGHT THE MAX WAS AUTOMATICALLY SET TO MAX OF 
5 W WHEN IN CW MODE

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[Elecraft] Fwd: mobile radio

[Rose]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Rose 
Date: Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:48 PM
Subject: Fwd: [Elecraft] mobile radio
To: k5...@arrl.net


I believe you mean K0BG ... known him for ears.

73!

Ken Kopp - K0PP
elecraftcov...@gmail.com

---
-- Forwarded message --
From: k5...@arrl.net 
Date: Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:38 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] mobile radio
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net


Edward and anyone interested in doing mobile radio
correctly I suggest you read Alan’s website:
http://www.k0ng.com/wiring.html 
Peter
K5hab
Medina Tx
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[Elecraft] Going Mobile?

[Robert 'RC' Conley]

This is a web site you absolutely must read 

-- 
The Morse be with youLive Long and Prosper
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[Elecraft] KX3 CW POWER ISSUE

[Gerry Miller]

 I NOTICED LAST NIGHT THAT WHEN IN CW MODE MY POWER OUTPUT WENT TO THE PREVIOUS 
SSB SETTING OF 14W.  I THOUGHT THE MAX WAS AUTOMATICALLY SET TO MAX OF 5 W WHEN 
IN CW MODE OR DO I HAVE SOME SW ISSUE IN MY RIG? KX3 VERY GENTLY USED SN 499X.  
SW MCU-2.38, DSP1.37.  ANY SUGGESTIONS?GERRY MILLER, AA2ZJ  (aa...@juno.com) 

How To Remove Eye Bags & Lip Lines Fast (Watch)
Fit Mom Daily
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/59dbdf05121585f04394bst03vuc
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[Elecraft] mobile radio

[k5...@arrl.net]

Edward and anyone interested in doing mobile radio correctly I suggest you read 
Alan’s website:
http://www.k0ng.com/wiring.html  
Peter 
K5hab
Medina Tx
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Re: [Elecraft] SPE 1K-FA Amp hookup and ALC Question

[Don Wilhelm]

Clay,

You must have been reading some very old information.  The first K3s had 
positive going ALC, but it changed to negative going early on.  If your 
K3 was shipped prior to Dec 10, 2008 (before approximate SN 2362) it may 
still have positive ALC.  If you have the REMIOUPGD or the Rev B KIO3 
board, it is ready to o with negative ALC.  If not obtain REMIOUPGD mod 
and install it.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/9/2017 3:48 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

I'm being given an SPE 1K-FA for use with my fully current K3s.

I'm being told that the K3s and SPE don't play well together using "ALC".
A conflicting report is telling me that Elecraft addressed the ALC issue.

Is this a resolved issue or not? 

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Edward R Cole]

Ted, KN1CBR

It seems to me simpler to set up a source of 13.6 vdc to power your 
SUV "portable" station.  Running dc leads from the vehicle battery is 
simplest but you need to guard against discharging it so much that 
the vehicle will not start.  With engine running you will get about 
14.2vdc at the battery which will only help (but your gas mileage will suffer).


But using dedicated 12v deep-cycle battery for the radio will insure 
against starting issues.  Not sure if you plan to install radio in 
SUV or just have it to set up on say a picnic table or folding 
table.  If the latter, the battery can be situated close the radio 
and use the standard dc power leads of the radio equipment.  You can 
recharge the radio battery when driving or just running engine in CG 
by use of some No. 12ga wire from vehicle battery to the radio 
battery (good for up to 10A charging current if under 20-foot 
length).  Use a isolation diode if you don't want the radio battery 
involved in starting (which draws probably 200A from the vehicle 
battery).  Probably a 10A diode would suffice for charging the radio 
battery.  Wire up the system and measure current using multimeter to 
be sure before getting a diode.


This will not keep the radio battery from discharging when operating 
100w on HF because the radio is probably drawing 15A on peaks.  If 
recharging only when driving it will likely take close to an hour for 
full recharging (depends on the volt-amp rating of the radio 
battery).  I used a system like this when living in a remote cabin 
without power.  It look about 45 minutes running the truck to 
recharge the cabin battery (which was placed in the truck with wiring 
for this purpose).  I had a 100AH Marine Diehard (Sears) battery.


Diode will not keep from discharging the vehicle battery so have a 
way to disconnect the radio battery when operating (unless you plan 
to keep engine running).  Marine electronic shops stock things like 
dc disconnect switches and isolation diode units if you do not want 
to make your own.  Also several ham suppliers handle such items.


Last year I bought a new 4x4 pickup and installed ham radio equipment 
(KX3 + KXPA100, etc.):

http://www.kl7uw.com/Mobile.htm
Truck has two batteries (diesel) so I did nothing but run off one of 
the batteries (but I used No. 8awg).


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Jim Brown]

On 10/9/2017 1:02 PM, kg9hfr...@gmail.com wrote:

I have a Toyota Prius that has a beat signal “right on 0.780MHz, WBBM - 
Chicago”.
Have not had any issues related to my transmitter getting into anything though.


Any discussion of mobile operation ought to include the bands in use. 
VHF/UHF is VERY different from HF with respect to RFI. My earlier posts 
in this chain have been with respect to HF. It's been a LONG time since 
I've encountered vehicle-related noise issues on VHF or UHF FM. I HAVE 
encountered noise from noise sources plugged into lighter plugs. :)


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[kg9hfr...@gmail.com]

I have a Toyota Prius that has a beat signal “right on 0.780MHz, WBBM - 
Chicago”.
Have not had any issues related to my transmitter getting into anything though.

Frank KG9H

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 2:57 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> "This
> mechanism is a likely cause (or 
> contributing cause) to my 20M RF
> locking up the computer in my Toyota."
> 
> I'm sort of amazed, I remember when the 
> Camry came out in the 80's there was a lot 
> said about how 20W from a 2M radio would 
> kill the computer and Toyota wouldn't 
> warranty that. It was mentioned in QST and 
> Toyota lost a lot of sales (Including any 
> to me) and back then, said they would 
> resolve the issue. Haven't bought a Toyota 
> since then but it appears they still don't 
> care.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Gary Smith]

"This
mechanism is a likely cause (or 
contributing cause) to my 20M RF
locking up the computer in my Toyota."

I'm sort of amazed, I remember when the 
Camry came out in the 80's there was a lot 
said about how 20W from a 2M radio would 
kill the computer and Toyota wouldn't 
warranty that. It was mentioned in QST and 
Toyota lost a lot of sales (Including any 
to me) and back then, said they would 
resolve the issue. Haven't bought a Toyota 
since then but it appears they still don't 
care.

73,

Gary
KA1J
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Frank:   Are you referring to AC ground {green wire} or AC neutral 
{white wire}?


In my installation the battery negative is connected via a green wire to 
the trailer frame.  The battery negative is also connected to the DC 
distribution panel via a #4 black wire.    From the DC to AC inverter, 
the AC ground terminal is connected to the trailer frame and the AC 
neutral goes to the AC power distribution panel neutral buss bar just as 
a residential home.  In effect the AC neutral is not connected to the 
trailer frame.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 10/9/2017 12:37 PM, kg9hfr...@gmail.com wrote:

I’m curious for the bonding guys..
Are you connecting the “ground” of the AC mains to the ground of the 12VDC as 
well as the ground on the inverter?
Frank


On Oct 9, 2017, at 12:34 PM, Rick WA6NHC  wrote:

It's both.  ;-)

Rick nhc


On 10/9/2017 10:07 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 10/9/2017 9:56 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:

Mobile HF is an art.

No, it is SCIENCE.

73, Jim K9YC

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[Elecraft] SPE 1K-FA Amp hookup and ALC Question

[Clay Autery]

I'm being given an SPE 1K-FA for use with my fully current K3s.

I'm being told that the K3s and SPE don't play well together using "ALC".
A conflicting report is telling me that Elecraft addressed the ALC issue.

Is this a resolved issue or not?  Can anyone provide any info on this?

I am going back into the K3s manual for 3rd party amp connection and 
pinout info to produce the cabling required to accommodate the amp/P3, 
etc...


Thanks in advance!

73,

--
__
Clay Autery, KY5G

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 SSB ALC Mic Gain - a new problem

[Bill Cotter]

John,

I sent my Elecraft MH3 microphone off to Bob Nagy, AB5N, to have 
the microphone upgraded with a high-fidelity electret element. The 
price was very reasonable and the turnaround was days. The audio 
reports I have gotten are great.


Here is his contact info:

"Robert Nagy, AB5N" <7000...@gmail.com>

https://www.7000mic.com/elecraft

73 Bill N4LG 


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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Jim Brown]

It IS critical that all conductive parts of the vehicle be bonded 
together. It is critical for two reasons. First, because those parts 
carry antenna current on both TX and RX, and to be effective as a 
counterpoise, they must have good electrical contact. You're absolutely 
right about paint. It's a HUGE issue.


Second, good EMC design calls for cables supporting signals for 
sensitive circuits to be run in close proximity to a "ground" plane. 
Noise current is coupled far better to the much larger ground plane than 
to the cables. But this falls apart if there is a break in the "ground" 
plane, greatly increasing coupling to/from those cables. This mechanism 
is a likely cause (or contributing cause) to my 20M RF locking up the 
computer in my Toyota.


And, of course, it has long been good practice to bond the tail pipe to 
minimize old fashioned automotive noise. :)


73, Jim K9YC

On 10/9/2017 10:33 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
My rule:  Bond EVERYTHING to the chassis, including chassis elements 
to each other (paint is a pretty good insulator).  While that does 
have a *small* effect on noise (the every wire IS an antenna 
consideration); mostly bonding is to keep the RF (more correctly RFI) 
out of systems where it doesn't belong , including induction and 
radiation along the power cabling; to radiate from the antenna (while 
power sources are also another good place to provide some twist in the 
cable).  More bonding means more energy to the (intended) antenna and 
higher efficiencies. 



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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Charlie T]

Try holding the ALT key while typing 253 to get the exponent as in "IR²"
Similarly, ALT 0185, then 0186 for "XX¹º".

I'm not sure this works with all systems, or, if it even translates correctly, 
but in my DELL running Outlook, I have access to a whole bunch of handy items 
by holding down the ALT key while typing a 3 or 4 digit number. 
For example:  λ, ¢, £, ¥,  π, Σ, Ω, ü,¼, ½, Ø,Δ, ÷, √. 

73, Charlie k3ICH



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick WA6NHC
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 12:00 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

Overall, not a great plan.

Using an inverter, you will introduce RF noise, generate heat and poor 
regulation, unless you get a quality inverter (not cheap).  It's inefficient 
too and space wasteful.

If you use a power port (no longer called cigarette plugs), you will again 
introduce noise for your radio because they seldom have decent chassis bonding. 
 They are also low amperage capable and you can exceed that (check the owner 
manual or the fuse block), even if momentarily. Often they are also part of the 
vehicle systems array, so you'll get noises and generate issues to/from the 
vehicle electronics, some of which are rather spendy to repair.

In the long run, it's best (and least expense) to simply run the (fused at both 
ends, both wires) power cable to a known, chassis bonded source.  Power is NOT 
a place to cheap out.  If you're QRP, it's simple, the wires aren't huge, check 
your IR^2 losses over the run (make sure there is no voltage drop AT the radio).

Hint:  Make sure EVERYTHING, power at the source, power at the radio, the radio 
itself AND the antenna are properly RF bonded (not DC) to the vehicle and 
you'll have less issues, which translates into more fun.

Rick NHC



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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[kg9hfr...@gmail.com]

I’m curious for the bonding guys..
Are you connecting the “ground” of the AC mains to the ground of the 12VDC as 
well as the ground on the inverter?
Frank

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 12:34 PM, Rick WA6NHC  wrote:
> 
> It's both.  ;-)
> 
> Rick nhc
> 
> 
> On 10/9/2017 10:07 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 10/9/2017 9:56 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>>> Mobile HF is an art. 
>> 
>> No, it is SCIENCE.
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Dave Fugleberg]

If your intent is to operate portable (buddipole in a parking lot) as
opposed to mobile, then none of the issues you described about bonding,
ferrites, vehicle electrical systems, etc come into play anyhow. Just use
the 12v from the vehicle battery (fused of course).
You can operate quite awhile that way even with the vehicle turned off to
eliminate electrical noise from the vehicle.
All built in inverters that I've seen in vehicles require the vehicle to be
running. Most are relatively limited in power handling as well. If you do
decide to plug a power supply into that vehicle inverter, make sure the
inverter can handle the load. I don't see that it makes much sense to go
that route, though.

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 12:10 PM Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 10/9/2017 9:56 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
> > Mobile HF is an art.
>
> No, it is SCIENCE.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Rick WA6NHC]

It's both.  ;-)

Rick nhc


On 10/9/2017 10:07 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 10/9/2017 9:56 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
Mobile HF is an art. 


No, it is SCIENCE.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Rick WA6NHC]

My RV has a 3 KW inverter; I've not noted noises from it on any band but 
it was NOT cheap and it has it's own battery supply (not the house 
battery) and the radio has it's own battery supply.  There is no 
physical contact, only proximity.


We're not in disagreement here but we're approaching it from different 
angles (you have the formal training, we both have some experiences).


My rule:  Bond EVERYTHING to the chassis, including chassis elements to 
each other (paint is a pretty good insulator).  While that does have a 
*small* effect on noise (the every wire IS an antenna consideration); 
mostly bonding is to keep the RF (more correctly RFI) out of systems 
where it doesn't belong , including induction and radiation along the 
power cabling; to radiate from the antenna (while power sources are also 
another good place to provide some twist in the cable).  More bonding 
means more energy to the (intended) antenna and higher efficiencies.


When running >QRP the radio bonding can greatly reduce the effects in 
the radio from RFI.  Simply bonding the 200W RF deck in my truck to the 
chassis removed >90% of the RFI (except 40 meters sometimes turns off 
the cruise control).  The control cable and the mic cable each have 
ferrites in place; they weren't enough.  So we will disagree on your 
last point; my experience in that install provides that. It's all within 
7' of the antenna, hard to keep that any cleaner with that level of 
exposure.


The good news is that the newer vehicles have less cabling since wiring 
is replaced with fiber optics.  The bad news is that there is more 
'stuff' in a newer vehicle to generate and be sensitive to RFI.  I'd 
score that as a wash.


73,
Rick nhc


On 10/9/2017 10:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 10/9/2017 9:00 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:

Overall, not a great plan.

Using an inverter, you will introduce RF noise, generate heat and 
poor regulation,


I've used "good" ones (Samlex "pure sine wave" with FCC Part 15 Class 
B certification) and they ARE NOISY.  Using a lot of ferrite cores got 
their smallest one (100W) quiet enough on 40-6M to run the logging 
computer for a CW QSO party mobile operation.




If you use a power port (no longer called cigarette plugs), you will 
again introduce noise for your radio because they seldom have decent 
chassis bonding. 


Chassis bonding is NOT a solution to noise in a vehicle. Noise does 
not come in on the power wiring, it comes in on the ANTENNA. Indeed, 
there is no good reason to bond a radio to the chassis of a vehicle.


They are also low amperage capable and you can exceed that (check the 
owner manual or the fuse block), even if momentarily.  Often they are 
also part of the vehicle systems array, so you'll get noises and 
generate issues to/from the vehicle electronics, some of which are 
rather spendy to repair.


Many of the systems in a vehicle can generate noise, and some can be 
quite sensitive to RF. One of the on-board computers in my Toyota 
Sequoia (big SUV, same as their pickup) went into "limp home" mode 
when I called CQ on 20M with 100W into a Ham Stick mounted to rear 
side rail on the roof.  Top speed became 15 mph. I learned this while 
driving I-80 through the Nevada desert between Salt Lake City and 
Reno. Not a great place to break down. I got running again by pulling 
the positive lead off the battery and reconnecting it, which rebooted 
the victim computer.


But this is an RF problem, NOT a power problem.  When we run mobile, 
the only chassis bond that matters is the bond of the coax braid to 
conductive parts of the vehicle at the antenna. This provides the 
antenna with a counterpoise -- that is, the vehicle becomes a very 
necessary part of the antenna. This causes RF current to flow on those 
conductive parts of the vehicle chassis and body -- IF those body 
parts are connected together. And that's a BIG IF, because most body 
parts are insulated from each other by PAINT!


In the long run, it's best (and least expense) to simply run the 
(fused at both ends, both wires) power cable to a known, chassis 
bonded source.  Power is NOT a place to cheap out.  If you're QRP, 
it's simple, the wires aren't huge, check your IR^2 losses over the 
run (make sure there is no voltage drop AT the radio).


I agree that I wouldn't power anything bigger than a talkie or 
receiver from a lighter plug.  FAR better to run a beefy copper pair 
directly to the battery. NEVER, NEVER use the vehicle chassis as a 
return for DC. Doing so causes the positive lead to form a large 
magnetic loop with the chassis return, AND causing it to act as an 
antenna.


Hint:  Make sure EVERYTHING, power at the source, power at the radio, 
the radio itself AND the antenna are properly RF bonded (not DC) to 
the vehicle and you'll have less issues


Again, the radio is NOT the sensitive element here, it's the ANTENNA, 
which includes the chassis and other conductive parts. It IS important 
that -12V be bonded at the battery, but it 

Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Jim Brown]

On 10/9/2017 9:56 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
Mobile HF is an art. 


No, it is SCIENCE.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Jim Brown]

On 10/9/2017 9:00 AM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:

Overall, not a great plan.

Using an inverter, you will introduce RF noise, generate heat and poor 
regulation,


I've used "good" ones (Samlex "pure sine wave" with FCC Part 15 Class B 
certification) and they ARE NOISY.  Using a lot of ferrite cores got 
their smallest one (100W) quiet enough on 40-6M to run the logging 
computer for a CW QSO party mobile operation.




If you use a power port (no longer called cigarette plugs), you will 
again introduce noise for your radio because they seldom have decent 
chassis bonding. 


Chassis bonding is NOT a solution to noise in a vehicle. Noise does not 
come in on the power wiring, it comes in on the ANTENNA. Indeed, there 
is no good reason to bond a radio to the chassis of a vehicle.


They are also low amperage capable and you can exceed that (check the 
owner manual or the fuse block), even if momentarily.  Often they are 
also part of the vehicle systems array, so you'll get noises and 
generate issues to/from the vehicle electronics, some of which are 
rather spendy to repair.


Many of the systems in a vehicle can generate noise, and some can be 
quite sensitive to RF. One of the on-board computers in my Toyota 
Sequoia (big SUV, same as their pickup) went into "limp home" mode when 
I called CQ on 20M with 100W into a Ham Stick mounted to rear side rail 
on the roof.  Top speed became 15 mph. I learned this while driving I-80 
through the Nevada desert between Salt Lake City and Reno. Not a great 
place to break down. I got running again by pulling the positive lead 
off the battery and reconnecting it, which rebooted the victim computer.


But this is an RF problem, NOT a power problem.  When we run mobile, the 
only chassis bond that matters is the bond of the coax braid to 
conductive parts of the vehicle at the antenna. This provides the 
antenna with a counterpoise -- that is, the vehicle becomes a very 
necessary part of the antenna. This causes RF current to flow on those 
conductive parts of the vehicle chassis and body -- IF those body parts 
are connected together. And that's a BIG IF, because most body parts are 
insulated from each other by PAINT!


In the long run, it's best (and least expense) to simply run the 
(fused at both ends, both wires) power cable to a known, chassis 
bonded source.  Power is NOT a place to cheap out.  If you're QRP, 
it's simple, the wires aren't huge, check your IR^2 losses over the 
run (make sure there is no voltage drop AT the radio).


I agree that I wouldn't power anything bigger than a talkie or receiver 
from a lighter plug.  FAR better to run a beefy copper pair directly to 
the battery. NEVER, NEVER use the vehicle chassis as a return for DC. 
Doing so causes the positive lead to form a large magnetic loop with the 
chassis return, AND causing it to act as an antenna.


Hint:  Make sure EVERYTHING, power at the source, power at the radio, 
the radio itself AND the antenna are properly RF bonded (not DC) to 
the vehicle and you'll have less issues


Again, the radio is NOT the sensitive element here, it's the ANTENNA, 
which includes the chassis and other conductive parts. It IS important 
that -12V be bonded at the battery, but it is NOT useful to bond the radio.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Rick WA6NHC]

Only if you have another counterpoise prepared other than the vehicle; 
otherwise it all needs to be bonded to the vehicle to raise the (already 
meager) antenna efficiency.  Short HF vehicular antennas only run in the 
lower single digit efficiencies, Buddipole or not.  You have to do all 
you can to make it at all.


Just because it loads and shows a good SWR doesn't mean it's working 
well, even a dummy load has a good match.  Mobile HF is an art.


Rick nhc


On 10/9/2017 9:48 AM, Eric J wrote:

No ignition noise or bonding to worry about.


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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

For a 100 watt PEP HF radio or like VHF/UHF radio, the correct solution 
is a 3 wire system.  Positive - connected and fused at the battery and 
radio ends, Negative - connected and fused at the battery and radio 
ends, AND a 3rd wire connected to the firewall/frame {not battery 
negative} of the vehicle and connected to the ground terminal on the 
radio.  Usually there is a rubber boot or grommet in the firewall just 
to the left or right where the steering column passes through the 
firewall.  It is easy to push the needed wiring through this grommet.  
Thus installation complete and no holes drilled, and one has a proper 
and safe electrical source for the radio.


73

Bob, K4TAX



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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Eric J]

It doesn't sound like you are operating mobile at all if your antenna is a 
Buddipole in a parking lot.  Leave the vehicle turned off. No ignition noise or 
bonding to worry about. If that limits your operating time, carry another 
battery to power the rig (maybe a gel cell for safety) when you are parked. You 
can rig up a connection to the vehicle charging system to recharge the extra 
battery on the way to the next county. Your SUV either has a hitch or wiring 
for one where you can pick up a connection to the alternator. That's how a 
trailer battery is recharged.

Eric

KE6US


On 10/8/2017 8:19 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

Previous threads provided a great deal of info about arranging automobile 
electrical systems to power HF rigs.  But as I recall, it all focused on using 
the battery / alternator supply for the 13 VDC.  Though I wanted to go mobile 
and still do, for a number of reasons I could not configure my car to do it 
properly.  I am now thinking of buying a new SUV which has 117 VAC outlets in 
its rear cargo space.  That makes me wonder – could I just use an ordinary 117 
VAC to 13 VDC power supply, exactly as I do at home, just plug it in and – 
staying within the car’s rated current draw – operate without worrying about 
where the ground goes vis-à-vis the battery, what-all needs to be bonded with 
what-all-else, how everything needs to be mummified in ferrite, etc?  Or are 
the problems all the same even though different?  My objective is simple.  I 
want to be able to drive to a rare county, set up my buddipole in a parking 
lot, and use either a XX3/KXPA or a K2/100 to knock out some CW QSOs.  I do NOT 
want to take an electric drill or a rivet gun to a new car.

Has anyone gone mobile using a car’s 117 VAC outlets?  Any thoughts to share?  
Any thoughts from anyone who for any reason hasn’t done it?

Ted, KN1CBR  (operating this week as N0A in the NAQCC anniversary event.  Give 
a call if you hear me.  Mostly 20 or 40 CW)

Tnx.

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Rick WA6NHC]

Overall, not a great plan.

Using an inverter, you will introduce RF noise, generate heat and poor 
regulation, unless you get a quality inverter (not cheap).  It's 
inefficient too and space wasteful.


If you use a power port (no longer called cigarette plugs), you will 
again introduce noise for your radio because they seldom have decent 
chassis bonding.  They are also low amperage capable and you can exceed 
that (check the owner manual or the fuse block), even if momentarily.  
Often they are also part of the vehicle systems array, so you'll get 
noises and generate issues to/from the vehicle electronics, some of 
which are rather spendy to repair.


In the long run, it's best (and least expense) to simply run the (fused 
at both ends, both wires) power cable to a known, chassis bonded 
source.  Power is NOT a place to cheap out.  If you're QRP, it's simple, 
the wires aren't huge, check your IR^2 losses over the run (make sure 
there is no voltage drop AT the radio).


Hint:  Make sure EVERYTHING, power at the source, power at the radio, 
the radio itself AND the antenna are properly RF bonded (not DC) to the 
vehicle and you'll have less issues, which translates into more fun.


Rick NHC


On 10/9/2017 8:46 AM, Ignacy wrote:

This is entirely unnecessary.  Use the cigarette lighter and MFJ power
conditioner. While you radio requires 20A peak, the power conditioner
reduces it to about 8 A average, which the cigarette lighter will do easily.
Ignacy, NO9E




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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Rick Robinson]

I used a Swan 14A converter way back when. Never noticed any bad hash. Just
the whine when I keyed down.

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Ignacy]

This is entirely unnecessary.  Use the cigarette lighter and MFJ power
conditioner. While you radio requires 20A peak, the power conditioner
reduces it to about 8 A average, which the cigarette lighter will do easily.  
Ignacy, NO9E



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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Wireless Headphone

[bill steffey]

get one of those cheap FM bdcst band wireless sets ...

THEY ARE ANALOG...  REMEMBER THAT STUFF ,.
NO DSP  NO LATENCY

HARBOR FREIGHT FOR 10$ us

IF YOU DON'T LIKEIT , GUT IT AND USE THE RADIO ON A SENNHEISER.

I previously used a second receiver & BLU TOOTH to simul monitor the 
local fm repeater for an 'elmer' net   when it was my turn to 
talk, I thought I was in Wrigley field...and I LOST THE ABILITY TO 
SPEAK  COHERENTLY.

(  like I ever could )

bill

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Although when using our travel trailer, I operate the radio from the 12V 
battery system,  I do have installed a 12 volt to 120 volt pure sine 
wave inverter.  This takes care of things such as computer, microwave, 
TV's and of course the all required "hair dryer" and etc.    The unit is 
rated at 2KW.   I've located it very near the battery using #4AWG copper 
for battery connections.    I've made provisions to switch the entire 
trailer over between "external" power and "internal" power.    We often 
camp where there is no electric service and may not be able to run the 
generator due to "quiet hours".  Overall the unit works well, seems to 
be about 85% efficient based on load,  and is reasonably RF noise 
free.   As to 120 VAC provided in vehiclesI don't have any 
history or knowledge.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 10/9/2017 12:48 AM, Erik Basilier wrote:

The 117V  AC may be produced by the vehicle using an inverter similar to those 
sold as separate devices. Years ago I was using one of those and found out that 
they would not allow the ground pin on the AC outlet to be connected to the 12V 
minus connection. If that is the case, you would have to be careful hooking 
things up.

73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dauer, Edward
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2017 8:19 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

Previous threads provided a great deal of info about arranging automobile 
electrical systems to power HF rigs.  But as I recall, it all focused on using 
the battery / alternator supply for the 13 VDC.  Though I wanted to go mobile 
and still do, for a number of reasons I could not configure my car to do it 
properly.  I am now thinking of buying a new SUV which has 117 VAC outlets in 
its rear cargo space.  That makes me wonder – could I just use an ordinary 117 
VAC to 13 VDC power supply, exactly as I do at home, just plug it in and – 
staying within the car’s rated current draw – operate without worrying about 
where the ground goes vis-à-vis the battery, what-all needs to be bonded with 
what-all-else, how everything needs to be mummified in ferrite, etc?  Or are 
the problems all the same even though different?  My objective is simple.  I 
want to be able to drive to a rare county, set up my buddipole in a parking 
lot, and use either a XX3/KXPA or a K2/100 to knock out some CW QSOs.  I do NOT 
want to take an electric drill or a rivet gun to a new car.

Has anyone gone mobile using a car’s 117 VAC outlets?  Any thoughts to share?  
Any thoughts from anyone who for any reason hasn’t done it?

Ted, KN1CBR  (operating this week as N0A in the NAQCC anniversary event.  Give 
a call if you hear me.  Mostly 20 or 40 CW)

Tnx.





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[Elecraft] KPA1500 Shipping

[James Wilson]

*On Mon Oct 9, **Randy Boates* rboates at incentre.net

 wrote:

> Not yet... I am curious when this will start

According to the Elecraft website, KPA1500 shipping is
expected to begin late October or early November.

Let's be patient.

Jim - W4RKS
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: Wireless Headphone

[Bob N3MNT]

I have tried several.  I have not found any that work for me on CW.  Rcv is
not an issue, but sending is very difficult. 



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[Elecraft] Kpa1500 shipping

[Randy Boates]

Not yet... I am curious when this will start

Randy
VE6RMB 
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[Elecraft] K3S Speaker buz

[Chris via Elecraft]

Hi my speaker on my K3S is buzzing it stops when I turn the AF down

is there anything that I can try to stop it

thanks Chris GM4YLN

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Re: [Elecraft] Mobile from 117 VAC

[Al Scanandoah]

DC to AC inverters are notoriously noisy EMI/RFI-wise, even the so-called pure 
sine wave units. There's a good chance you'll have spurs right where you're 
trying to listen.
There *are* good units out there, but they're not cheap, and you'll still have 
to go through the exercise of proper cabling & bonding in order to realize a 
quality installation.
Al, K2ZN


Sent via mobile
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Re: [Elecraft] K3s rear mic connector and shure SM58.

[Jim Brown]

On 10/6/2017 4:27 PM, Richard Day wrote:

Why did you turn the mic bias off?  Have you tried turning it on to see if
it gives you the sound you need?


Bias for mics does not "improve the sound" of a mic. Rather, bias makes 
electret mics work (you'll get no sound from them without bias), and can 
cause problems with dynamic mics. At the very least, bias can cause 
distortion with dynamic mics, and at worst might damage them. This is 
NOT a topic for experimentation. If you want to know more, I suggest 
that you study how mics work.


73, Jim K9YC

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