[EVDL] Tesla isn’t really a car manufacturer at all.
They are an information company with a high-end computer that has a surprisingly large number of car features. With just 17 moving parts, the Tesla Model S is almost constantly connected to the mother ship manufacturer, and its internal software is updated every week. Read the full story: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/gm-vs-tesla-real-story-don-peppers -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150114/cfd31fb6/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
If you don't want to make anything off the scrapping you will have no trouble finding someone with a truck to haul it off. A craigslist add with the word free car ought to take care of it. It has been years, but I had a couple scratch and dents that I called a local guy who would trade a 50 dollar bill for any car in any condition. On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, The summer day. To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150114/63ae6b61/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
Hello Bill, The first thing you do is go to the DMV and have the title delete or some times call a junk title. Contact a savage yard and they normally will pick it up for free. Back in 73, I bought a car just to get the transaxle out of it for $450.00. These type of transaxles are use in min-engine race cars and now cost $9000.00 for just the transaxle. There is some value in a lot of cars, that people think they are just junk. A friend of mine sold a Corvair air cool engine that is use in a lot of single engine aircrafts. Roland - Original Message - From: Bill Dennis via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org To: 'Steve Clunn'mailto:gasblast...@gmail.com ; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 6:04 PM Subject: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usubhttp://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.orghttp://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRAhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150114/fb1c1656/attachment.html ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
I would just start calling the wrecking yards. You might find one who will haul it away for free - I'm guessing that's the best you could hope for. Also check Craigslist. I've seen ads for people looking for scrap cars. My dad just got rid of a collision damaged but complete car and an auto wrecker came and got it and paid him $200. What you have will be of much less interest unless it is a unique or rare model. Peter Flipsen Jr On Jan 14, 2015 12:42 AM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150114/16b361c3/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
Donate the car to the charity of your choice. I have donated several cars over the years to Car Talk on National Public Radio. Instructions on this link: http://www.cartalkvdp.com/orgs?id=MPBN It's simple. You find the title, give them a call and pick a time, and someone meets you and tows away the car. They will pick up _anything_ that you could remotely call a vehicle. You get at least a $500 tax deduction (not a rebate or anything, just a deduction like giving money to a charity,) perhaps more if they sell it for more. Bill D. On 1/13/2015 6:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
They generally tow cars away for free if the scrap metal is worth at least the cost of the tow. You may be able to work a charitable contribution for taxes if you call the correct place. If you live far from any wrecking/scrap yard, there may be a towing fee. Tom Keenan On Jan 13, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
Hi Bill and All, Depending on it's weight they will come pick it up and pay you $100-300 or so for the glider. Call a few and get quotes will give you an idea what it is worth where you are. Scrap prices are down. They were getting 2x's that last yr. Anyone wanting to buy copper wire in a month will be really cheap as the new lower cost inventory comes in. Jerry Dycus From: Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: 'Steve Clunn' gasblast...@gmail.com; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 8:04 PM Subject: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150115/ce99a3e0/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
If you have a title it is pretty much a slam dunk, after you get the parts you want pulled Google on the online car salvage buyers. In my area there is a network working under the name (IIRC) Sellusyourcaronline.com or similar. I sold them 4 or 5 cars last year and frankly they gave me what I consider all the money I could have hoped for. They will ask if its drivable or what is missing, just tell them it doesn't have an engine or trans. I called them up, they gave me a firm price on the phone and made an appointment to get the car. The flat bed driver called to confirm, showed up with cash in hand took the title and loaded the car. Couldn't have been easier or more pleasant for me. If there isn't someone buying junk cars online in your area I would recommend putting it on Craigslist for a small amount of money, say 100 bucks. You will probably be surprised at how many people are out there looking for scrap to recycle or cars they can get cheap and part out or scrap. They might want to haggle but the bottom line is that they will take the car away and give you something. For instance, 2 weeks ago I had a perfectly good but low end dining table that my SO wanted me to take to the dump as Goodwill and SVDP wouldn't pick it up. Rather than load it by myself in the truck, spend $5 on fuel and pay a $20 dump fee I put it on Craigslist for $30 bucks. I had 3 calls in 2 days and a newly divorced dad came by loaded it up, handed me $30 and thanked me profusely for it. You could also consider donating it to your favorite charity. They usually have someone ready to pick up junk cars and you could get a tax coupon for the donation. Dach. On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 4:10 AM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150114/2ff90c9e/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
A lot of charities and even public radio stations accept old cars as donations. Shop around to see if your car might be of value to one of them. -Ben On Jan 13, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
Around here, there a quite a few metal recyclers who will come with a trailer or flatbed and take the car -- most of them take them to metal recycling, but some might take them to a junkyard if they can get more money for them there. Usually it's either free, or they might pay you $50 or so to take it away. If it's a one highly sought after by a junkyard they might come and get it, but I've always dealt with a middle man scrap metal guy. Z On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150115/9f2a35eb/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)
Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Lee, you're always so spot on but this time I'm going to disagree - a little. Efficiency of PV does matter. You have to buy the units, so the more efficient they are the less space they will take to generate the same amount of watts. Most people don't have unlimited space, so space does make a difference. It could also make a difference in purchase cost. Fewer panels mean less mounting hardware and less electrical work. Also fewer units could mean less overall cost for the PV units, themselves. Oh, I agree! I just think that if you're buying based on price, then look at *price* (not efficiency). Of course, this should be the installed price, and not just that of the panels alone. Or, you may want to buy based on other factors. Maybe they have to fit within a certain maximum size, or you need to generate a certain amount of power. Then efficiency becomes more important. When people make a big purchase, they need to be very clear about their goals. It's all too easy to kid ourselves, or rationalize, or oversimplify. (I *say* I bought this car to save gas, but I really bought it because I always wanted a red sports car). -- You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. -- R. Buckminster Fuller -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
I just picked 3 junk car dealers from a search, called each to see what they would pay when, checked the reviews on each one, then chose based on that. They picked it up the next day, left a check for $300. It was a complete older (1997) CE car with a blown motor, so I can't say what value the glider would have, but I can't imagine they wouldn't offer something. Michael B On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150115/c76b9eec/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)
On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:13 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Most people only have so much roof available for solar energy. And it is not enough for our total energy needs. On the contrary. To within back-of-the-envelope precision, the residential rooftop surface area in the US alone receives enough solar energy, at today's off-the-shelf hardware store efficiencies, to provide all the energy needs for the entire planet. Electricity and transportation and manufacturing and everything else included for the whole population, just from residential US rooftops. Of course, it's not hard to find examples of homes that fall far short. An apartment in a skyscraper in the middle of Manhattan, for example, or somebody at the bottom of a canyon in the middle of a forest in Alaska. But the general rule is for people to have at least a few times as much surface area as they need for themselves, with lots and lots having several times as much as they need. Here's a good article on the subject, including a map that shows half a dozen hypothetical 8% efficiency PV installations, each of which by itself is enough for the entire planet: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/12/wind-fights-solar/ So, though there will certainly be edge cases where photovoltaic efficiency is the biggest concern -- with NASA leading the charge -- in the overwhelming majority of situations, it's the financial return on investment that's going to decide how best to make use of this particular abundant resource. Solar thermal makes sense if you want heat. It's really GOOD at making heat! Which I dont need 7 months of the year. Your tap water is 120°F for seven months of the year? And which I do need in the winter when it is producing HALF the heat for its size. Even if your solar thermal unit is only able to raise the temperature in the tank to 80°F, it takes much, much less electricity to heat 80°F water to 120°F than it does to heat 40°F water to 120°F. Again, the efficiency of new generations of heat pump water heaters may well change the financial equation, but, even if it does, it's not for the reasons you're giving. Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150115/053a15a7/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
Around here (in New Jersey) there are plenty of places that advertise We buy junk cars. I just had a junk pickup, that had very few useful parts left, taken away on a flatbed for free. Al - Original Message - From: Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Bill Dennis e...@q.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV In the case where there are plenty of usable parts they'll often pay you some nominal amount for the car. Otherwise they'll either just take it or you'll have to pay them (something around $50 in my experience). Since yours is just a rolling chassis I'm going to bet on one of the latter two. The best bet it to call the auto salvage yards and ask. --Rick On 01/13/2015 08:04 PM, Bill Dennis via EV wrote: I didn't have any takers on my Starter EV, Just Add Batteries offer. So I'm just going to take out all the EV components and scrap the car. What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Do you have to pay them to pick up the car, or do they just come and take it off your hands for whatever remaining parts it may have? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)
On 01/14/2015 11:39 AM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: I hadn't heard of heat pump water heaters before this discussion. Something like that could, indeed, tip the balance. What happens to the cold side of the heat pump? Can that be used to reduce air conditioning load in summer? Certainly, depending on where it's located. Mine is in the basement where, unfortunately now, it's keeping it quite chilly. It was 56 down there yesterday. But in the summer it helps keep it cool and helps dehumidify it. I have a dehumidifier that runs almost constantly all summer. The water heater generates about 5 gallons of water every 2 weeks so that's got to be helping. As of a few years ago, the return on investment, the payback time, for solar hot water was better than that of PV -- and that included maintenance every few years, electricity to heat the water on cloudy days (though much less electricity since you still get a substantial amount of warming), and so on. But it's obviously a rapidly-evolving field. If heat pumps really are coming to water heaters, that's huge not just for PV adopters but energy efficiency across the spectrum. Absolutely. My GE GeoSpring has a 2.4 energy factor. (You can also buy stand-alone heat pumps that you plumb inline with a standard resistance water heater.) I think, as others have said, that the plummeting price of PV has really tipped the scale and when you add in the improving efficiency of heat pumps it really falls over. --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)
I agree that the improvements in air source heat pumps over the last couple decades, with operation down to as low as -25 F (albeit at low COP) has been a game changer. For one thing, I think they have made ground source heat pumps non-competitive due to their much higher cost. But I am not so sure they are always the best solution. I've looked at this for my house, and this specific case illustrates some of the variables. I can build a solar thermal system, collectors, pumps, insulated storage tank and plumbing, with 200 ft^2, collector area for less than $3k. This system will provide about 33kWh, 112,600 BTU, of heat to the storage tank per day (50% efficiency, measured), and about 30kWh into the house assuming a small amount of loss in the plumbing to the liquid-air heat exchangers. Using a cost of around $2.00 per Watt owner-installed, including racks, inverter, wiring, etc), this $3k would purchase about a 1.5kW PV system (example prices: http://www.wholesalesolar.com/gridtie.html#SolarSkySolarWorld). In my area that would supply about 7kWh electric per day yearly average, based on 6 years of data on my 5.6kW system. Heat pumps have to be purchased to turn this into heat into the house. An 8kW (27,000 BTU) heat pump is around $3k (for example: https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujitsu-Air-Conditioners/AOU24RLXFZ-ASU9RLF-ASU9RLF-ASU9RLF-27000-BTU-18-SEER-Ductless-HeatPump/14513.ac?gclid=CLb7ifC5lsMCFdgHgQod_7UAIg). With COP of 3 this would deliver about 21kWh of heat using the 7kWh of electric per day, about 30% less than the solar thermal. But as someone said, I may use that power year around, but not the heat from the solar thermal. In our area we need to heat about 7 months of the year. The 200 ft^2 collector would only supply part of the energy required to heat the house over most of the winter, so I would use the full output over at least 5 of the 7 months. So for 5 months of the year I get 30kWh from solar thermal, and about 20kWh from PV. For the other 7 months I get nothing from solar thermal (not quite, some used for about 2 months) and 7kWh per day, or about $0.84 per day ($.12/kWh) from solar PV, or about $175.00 per year. I had to pay an additional $3k for the solar PV and heat pump system, which would be paid back in about 17 years at current utility rates. After that the PV/heat pump system would save me $175 per year in electric costs at current rates if I use its full output year round, or the utility pays me retail rate for surplus electric I supply. But I am not going to use that full output over the rest of the year unless I run AC enough during the 7 months to use the same energy I used from the system for heating during the 5 months of winter. I don’t. I just open the windows at night. In addition, we have net metering in my state, balanced over a year. So any surplus I have supplied at the end of the year is tossed out, I get no payment for it, so I wouldn’t gain $175 per year to pay back the $3k high cost of the PV/heat pump system and bank after that. In this case I pay twice as much for the solar PV/heat pump system and get less roi from it over a year since I won’t get paid for most of the surplus electric. In my specific case the solar thermal looks like a better roi. It also can be set up to run the pumps off of batteries which are charged by solar, so independent of the grid. A consideration where I live since the power goes out around a half dozen times per year. With grid tied PV and heat pump I would not have heat at these times unless I purchase a backup generator, or a different inverter and battery backup, further increasing cost. I think this is a complex calculation with many dependencies, such as available solar insolation, type of dwelling, type of metering by the utility, use of AC, installation costs (diy or not), etc, which can vary greatly with user and location. It is impossible to give a simple answer that is accurate for most users in most areas. Each case needs to be examined in detail. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EV-Demand-Response-solar-thermal-NOT-tp4673447p4673482.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-X to be the 1st production electric tow car
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2015/large-4x4/tesla/model-x-to-be-first-electric-tow-car-48643 Model X to be first electric tow car Marton Pettendy 17 January 2015 [images http://liveimages.motoring.com.au/motoring/general/editorial/ge4664551595994299985.jpg (front) http://liveimages.motoring.com.au/motoring/general/editorial/ge4940347915352793424.jpg (rear) ] Tesla's first SUV to feature seven seats, three battery options, twin motors, two gullwing doors, AWD and towing capacity Tesla Motors has announced its first SUV, the Model X, will come standard with seven seats, Dual Motor all-wheel drive, 'Falcon Wing' doors, Autopilot semi-autonomous technology and three battery power options, making it as quick as a sports car and the first electric car able to tow. The bad news is that, after a two-year production delay as Tesla struggled to meet demand for the Model S, the Model X is sold out for 2015 in the US, and Australian deliveries are unlikely to take place until later next year. We've already sold all the Model X we can make this year, said Tesla chief Elon Musk in Detroit this week. If you want to order a Model X, you'll unfortunately have to wait until 2016. Due in production by mid-year, the Model X will be available with 60kWh, 85kWh and 85kWh Performance battery options – the same as the car on which it's based, the Model S sedan. In the large sedan, the P85D twin-motor all-wheel-drive system is capable of producing 515kW of power and 930Nm of torque, while the base 60kWh drivetrain offers 285kW and the non-performance 85kWh powertrain delivers the same 285kW but offers a longer driving range. In the Model S, the 60kWh system offers a 390km range, while the 85kWh offers 502km. The latter also makes the full-size SUV quick, with Tesla claiming a 0-60mph acceleration time of less than five seconds, allowing it to outperform the fastest SUVs and many sports cars. It has the centre of gravity of a sports car, says Musk. Its low centre of mass is because the battery pack is so low. Perhaps most interestingly, Tesla says the Model X will offer genuine towing capacity, making it the first EV to do so, thanks to a range of load-carrying options. Full specifications – and the production version of the vehicle itself – are yet to be revealed. The Model X will be the first electric vehicle with towing capability, said the California EV maker. The optional tow hitch will support accessories and racks to transport skis and bikes with the minimum effect on aerodynamics. We're also working with the best rack and accessory companies in the world to have elegant carrying solutions. Musk has previously indicated the Model X will be priced close to the closely related Model S, which went on sale in Australia late last year from $96,208 plus on-road costs. Model X is designed from the ground up to combine the space and functionality of a sport utility vehicle with seating for seven adults and the uncompromised performance of an electric car. It is an automobile above category. The Model X will include Autopilot and the Dual Motor, announced late last year for the Model S, and will be central to the Model X. Every Model X comes with brilliantly functional Falcon Wing doors. These doors fold up and out of the way, allowing easy access to the third-row seat, even from the narrowest of parking spaces. [© motoring.com.au] http://news.boldride.com/2015/01/tesla-model-x-gets-all-wheel-drive-only/67212/ Tesla Model X Gets All-Wheel-Drive Only 16 January 2015 by Zach Doell [images http://news.boldride.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/tesla-model-x-concept-1.jpg http://news.boldride.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/tesla-model-x-concept-2.jpg ] ... Tesla Motors was tweaking the recipe for one of its long-awaited four-wheeled entrants – the Model X. The EV firm’s website now reveals a few key details about the upcoming electric crossover, and a setback for those of you that have plopped down a $5,000 deposit on the car. First, the bad. Tesla has quietly pushed the Model X back to early 2016. The CUV was initially intended to hit the market in 2013, then 2014, and – until recently – the second half of 2015. A focus on Model S development and the Model X’s complex “Falcon Wing” doors, which fold up and not out, are thought to play a large part in the delays. Next, the good. Like the Model S, Tesla will offer the X with three different battery options: 60 kWh, 85 kWh, and 85 kWh Performance battery packs. However in the case of the Model X, power is driven to the ground exclusively through Tesla’s dual-motor all-wheel-drive system, as a rear-drive option is not available. The lack of a single motor rear-drive Model X likely won’t help buyers with their bottom line, more motors equal more dollars, though the dual-motor Model X ought to have adequate performance to offset the potential higher cost. The dual-motor Model S P85D nabs an EPA estimated 253 mile range, boasts 691 horsepower, and completes
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
Or look in your local paper for somebody that will come out to your place to pick up the car, he'll pay you a fair value of the scrap value that he'll get at the local yard. I had a '74 Audi Quattro that I got $125 for. It helps if you unhook the battery, drain the fluids. Or check out Craig's list. Rush Tucson AZ -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Alan Brinkman via EV Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:17 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV Bill, In my area you call up the largest metal recycler/car recycler and they set up an appointment. They prefer for you to have the title to the car. Several years back I received $125 when the flat-bed truck came to get my very old very tired car. Without a motor they may or may not pay less (less metal to recycle and less parts to sell used if they are in that business). If the recycler is too far away or not interested, a local ad may produce a buyer who needs a fender and a hood and will take it all. Good luck, Alan Snip What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Snip Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: polaris.com Acquires Brammo eMotorcycles
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2015/01/brammo_sells_electric_motorcyc.html Brammo sells electric motorcycle division to Polaris Molly Young | January 15, 2015 [images http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width768/img/oregonian/photo/2014/02/-4c8a749e7c21cea9.JPG A preview of the 2014 Portland International Auto Show at the Oregon Convention Center. The Brammo Enertia Plus electric motorcycle. Mike Zacchino/The Oregonian http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width768/img/oregonian/photo/2014/02/-f943f413e04295ac.JPG http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width768/img/oregonian/photo/2014/02/-6d326c1c2d13b190.JPG http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width768/img/oregonian/photo/2014/02/-a2c260d3dc75ae96.JPG ] Talent-based electric vehicle maker Brammo has sold its motorcycle business to Polaris Industries Inc., an early backer of its technology. Brammo will shift its focus to building lithium-ion batteries and drivetrains at its Southern Oregon hub, said Adrian Stewart, the company's marketing director. It's unclear how many employees will remain in Jackson County, although Stewart said the company had no short-term plans to cut jobs. Polaris, a Minnesota-based maker of road vehicles with $3.8 billion in annual sales, has backed Brammo since 2011. Brammo's Empulse and Enertia electric motorcycles captured the attention of policymakers and investors and attracted millions of dollars in venture capital backing. In 2009, the state pitched in $100,000 from the Governor's Strategic Reserve Fund to help Brammo expand its plant in Ashland. It eventually outgrew the location and moved to its current facilities in Talent a year ago, more than tripling its space to nearly 100,000 square feet. But in recent months, there were signs of trouble. Brammo delayed production of its next model and laid off dozens of people on the assembly line. Polaris invested $9.5 million in Brammo, according to its most recent quarterly financial report. It described Brammo as an early-stage designer and developer of electric vehicles. As such, a risk exists that Brammo may not be able to secure sufficient financing to reach viability through cash flow from operations, the report said. Polaris will begin making electric motorcycles at its Spirit Lake, Iowa, factory by the second half of 2015, the company said in a written statement. A spokesperson could not be reached for comment. Polaris announced the acquisition after markets closed Thursday. Shares closed at $137.55 in trading on the New York Stock Exchange, giving Polaris a market value of $9.3 billion. [© oregonlive.com] http://blog.motorcycle.com/2015/01/15/motorcycle-news/polaris-acquires-electric-motorcycle-business-brammo/ Polaris Acquires Electric Motorcycle Business From Brammo By Troy Siahaan January 15, 2015 [images http://blog.motorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/H0B6770-XL1.jpg http://blog.motorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/RP-2014_Empulse-Left-3Q-Red.jpg ] Big news coming from the electric motorcycle camp today, as Polaris has announced it has acquired the electric motorcycle business of Brammo Inc. In addition, Polaris is acting as a leading investor in a recapitalization of Brammo that enables the company to focus exclusively on the design, development and integration of electric vehicle powertrains. Going forward, the two companies will leverage Polaris’ leading position in the global powersports industry to market a variety of electric vehicles utilizing Brammo’s lithium-ion electric drivetrain technology. Meanwhile, this will free Brammo to continue developing its electric vehicle powertrains. Brammo supplies these products, including the Brammo Power battery pack and Brammo Power vehicle management systems, globally to a wide range of OEMs. As part of this transaction, Polaris will utilize the assets acquired to begin manufacturing electric motorcycles in the second half of 2015 at its Spirit Lake, IA facility. “We have enjoyed our involvement with Brammo Motorcycles over the past three years, and our excitement about their industry-leading lithium-ion electric drivetrain technology has increased commensurate with their improvements in cost and performance. Polaris and Brammo share a goal of adding the most advanced and highest capability electric solutions to Polaris’ portfolio of leading powersports products,” said Scott Wine, Polaris Chairman and CEO. The agreement allows both companies to be more agile during the development cycle with clear accountability toward selling products that exemplify Polaris’ standard for delivering world class vehicles. Polaris has been a strategic investor and partner with Brammo since 2011. During that time, the companies have collaborated on a number of projects in motorcycles, off-road and on-road vehicles. “Today’s announcement strengthens not only Polaris’ commitment to bringing our consumers lithium-ion electric solutions, but also this
[EVDL] EVsOnTVs: Demetri Martin as House of Lies' EV-mogul Hightower (v)
http://www.tvmuse.com/news/tv-recap-house-of-lies-at-the-end-of-the-day-reality-wins_3473.html
TV Recap: House of Lies - At the end of the day, Reality wins
by Ana Banu January 15, 2015
[images
http://www.tvmuse.com/media/img/2015/01/HouseofLies_401_1397.jpg
tv-recap-house-of-lies-at-the-end-of-the-day-reality-wins
http://www.tvmuse.com/media/img/2015/01/lies5.jpg
http://www.tvmuse.com/media/img/2015/01/House-of-Lies-4x01-01.jpg
http://www.tvmuse.com/media/img/2015/01/House-of-Lies-Season-3-Episode-2-Powerless-5.jpg
Episode 302
video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCBaOsebbws
House of Lies | 'Don't Hold A Grudge' Tease | Season 4
Showtime Dec 19, 2014
Don't miss the new season of House of Lies beginning Sunday, January 11th at
10PM ET/PT. Starring Don Cheadle, Kristen Bell, Ben Schwartz and Josh
Lawson.
]
House of Lies is back, and soon enough, so will House of Cards. The show
stars Don Cheadle, Kristen Bell, Josh Lawson, Ben Schwartz, Donis Leonard
Jr., Dawn Olivieri, and Glynn Turman.
At the end of last season, Cheadle's character, the mighty Marty Kaan, was
thrown in jail because of a deal Jeannie (Bell) made with the Department of
Justice. So, the whole enlightment thing wasn't for me. Some people believe
in the dharma of non-attachment, some people believe in the dharma of love
and kindness... but I've come to realize that I believe in the dharma of
search and destroy. I believe in the dharma of taking prisoners, I BELIEVE
in the dharma of kicking ass. Yet... at the end of the day, REALITY wins,
is Kaan's opening monologue, words that give us an idea of what's to come.
For that, it's important to state that Jennie was off the hook and managed
to take Marty's place while he was shipped to jail. This season leaves all
that behind and offers a glimpse into Kaan's life post-prison. Kaan and
Associates (Marty's management consulting firm) isn't doing that well (some
of their office space is rented to young kids with big ideas) and his son is
going through a rough patch and doesn't get a chance to communicate to his
father, because well, he's probably still angry for having been deprived of
a father for so long. Sidenote, Marty's father is still going steady with
his very young girlfriend.
Jeannie, by the way, is pregnant (very close to giving birth) and I'm not
totally sure it isn't Marty's, though we find out - through a flashback -
that she's dating a guy who's happy about being a father. Through another
flashback we find out that Jeannie went to Marty's apartment one night
before the prison episode and she almost begged him to have sex with her. Of
course, she was drunk and of course, all she wanted to say is i love you,
Marty Kaan. There's a moment when it feels like Marty was ok with the
situation, possibly even willing to forgive her, but he gets his will power
together and tells her to leave his apartment.
This episode is about the characters reestablishing their roles and power
dynamics. Clyde and Doug are, as usual, the minions, one more interesting
(or boring) than the other, while Jeannie and Marty are the queen and king
of the castle. They might have gotten close to combining their forces, but
now they're once again as far as possible from each other - romantically -
as possible. New guest star? None other than comedian Dimitri Martin as
electric car mogul, Ellis Hightower. Marty goes to a funeral just to woo
him, since winning over Ellis means they get his electric car as well. Marty
and Hightower already have something in common (flashback tells us Marty and
Hightower met in jail).
But that's not the worst thing in Marty's life. Roscoe seems to be spending
money that he doesn't have, or so Marty thinks. The boy has been keeping
busy while his father was in jail and is now selling fake purses to his
friends. Also, he seems more male than female now. Talk about a change of
pace in the boy's life. I guess that's what teenagers do when they're in
need of attention, right?
House of Lies episode 2 (season four) will air on Sunday, Jan. 18 at 10 p.m.
on Showtime.
[© tvmuse.com]
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetri_Martin
...
http://www.sho.com/sho/house-of-lies/home
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVsOnTVs-House-of-Lies-Marty-vs-electric-car-mogul-A-Musk-proxy-td4673349.html
EVsOnTVs: House of Lies' Marty vs electric car mogul (?A Musk proxy?)
Jan 02, 2015
[dated]
http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-seen-tv-shows
... MarioA | February 13, 2014 ...
A Tesla was also seen in the most recent episode of House of Lies on
Showimte ...
[image
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee125/brian4591/houseofliess03e05720phdtvx264-2hdmkv_snapshot_2347_20140213_210422.jpg
]
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp%3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3DEVLN%2Bbrucedp2%26days%3D0%26sort%3Ddate
{brucedp.150m.com}
--
View this message in context:
Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)
Not that it would make a huge difference, but I question the value of a heat pump H/W heater in winter. If it's taking heat from your garage or basement, that is ultimately taking some heat from your heated spaces, which means you're simply using more energy elsewhere. If you could somehow duct the air intake from outside during winter, then it would be doing the best job it could. In summer, no doubt a true benefit. Before you argue that I'm wroing, consider this. If the air outside your garage is colder than inside and the H/W tank is cooling the garage air in exchange for heating the water, either the garage temp will drop to less than the outside or warm air will be drawn from the home's heated spaces. If you are truly insulated, then the former will happen and you will have the equivalent of ducting intake from outside. I doubt that the normal case. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 15-Jan-15 9:04:35 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT) I have one of the heat pump water heaters. It basically looks like a normal water heater with a small heat pump on top. They blow the cooler air out the top of the heat pump, so they can indeed be used to help with cooling in the summer. You need airflow around the area of the water heater to take advantage of the cooler air coming from the heat pump. Mike On January 14, 2015 9:39:18 AM MST, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jan 12, 2015, at 8:35 PM, Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu wrote: Compare the 60% efficiency of the PV/Heatpump water heater to the 50% losses half the year of the 70% thermal panels and higher cost and the PV panels with heatpump water heating win hands down. I hadn't heard of heat pump water heaters before this discussion. Something like that could, indeed, tip the balance. What happens to the cold side of the heat pump? Can that be used to reduce air conditioning load in summer? As of a few years ago, the return on investment, the payback time, for solar hot water was better than that of PV -- and that included maintenance every few years, electricity to heat the water on cloudy days (though much less electricity since you still get a substantial amount of warming), and so on. But it's obviously a rapidly-evolving field. If heat pumps really are coming to water heaters, that's huge not just for PV adopters but energy efficiency across the spectrum. If my own system lasts a few more years -- and there's no reason it shouldn't last a few times a few more years -- then it'll have paid for itself. Be nice to make a sizable profit off of it by getting it to last that few times a few more years, but, if it dies prematurely, I suppose an all-electric replacement will have to be on the short list as well as a drop-in equivalent replacement. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV
Peter, In my area of the world, scrap is scrap and if someone has a couple hundred lbs, scrap haulers will give him something for the scrap. In any case it is just a suggestion, he and you may be surprised… Rush Tucson AZ From: SLPinfo.org [mailto:slpinfop...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 6:18 PM To: Rush Dougherty; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV Rush, Bill's trying to get rid of a glider after removing all the EV parts. It is essentially just a chassis and body (not a complete car). No fluids to drain and a limited number of usable parts. I'd be surprised if he gets anything more than a free haul away. Peter Flipsen Jr On Jan 16, 2015 4:56 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Or look in your local paper for somebody that will come out to your place to pick up the car, he'll pay you a fair value of the scrap value that he'll get at the local yard. I had a '74 Audi Quattro that I got $125 for. It helps if you unhook the battery, drain the fluids. Or check out Craig's list. Rush Tucson AZ -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Alan Brinkman via EV Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:17 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scrapping an EV Bill, In my area you call up the largest metal recycler/car recycler and they set up an appointment. They prefer for you to have the title to the car. Several years back I received $125 when the flat-bed truck came to get my very old very tired car. Without a motor they may or may not pay less (less metal to recycle and less parts to sell used if they are in that business). If the recycler is too far away or not interested, a local ad may produce a buyer who needs a fender and a hood and will take it all. Good luck, Alan Snip What's the procedure for getting a motor-less car to a junk yard? Snip Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150116/6268e2cc/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)
Mine has a button that can switch it to simple resistive heat. I usually push that in the winter. Mike On January 16, 2015 5:47:20 PM MST, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Not that it would make a huge difference, but I question the value of a heat pump H/W heater in winter. If it's taking heat from your garage or basement, that is ultimately taking some heat from your heated spaces, which means you're simply using more energy elsewhere. If you could somehow duct the air intake from outside during winter, then it would be doing the best job it could. In summer, no doubt a true benefit. Before you argue that I'm wroing, consider this. If the air outside your garage is colder than inside and the H/W tank is cooling the garage air in exchange for heating the water, either the garage temp will drop to less than the outside or warm air will be drawn from the home's heated spaces. If you are truly insulated, then the former will happen and you will have the equivalent of ducting intake from outside. I doubt that the normal case. Peri -- Original Message -- From: Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 15-Jan-15 9:04:35 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT) I have one of the heat pump water heaters. It basically looks like a normal water heater with a small heat pump on top. They blow the cooler air out the top of the heat pump, so they can indeed be used to help with cooling in the summer. You need airflow around the area of the water heater to take advantage of the cooler air coming from the heat pump. Mike On January 14, 2015 9:39:18 AM MST, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Jan 12, 2015, at 8:35 PM, Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu wrote: Compare the 60% efficiency of the PV/Heatpump water heater to the 50% losses half the year of the 70% thermal panels and higher cost and the PV panels with heatpump water heating win hands down. I hadn't heard of heat pump water heaters before this discussion. Something like that could, indeed, tip the balance. What happens to the cold side of the heat pump? Can that be used to reduce air conditioning load in summer? As of a few years ago, the return on investment, the payback time, for solar hot water was better than that of PV -- and that included maintenance every few years, electricity to heat the water on cloudy days (though much less electricity since you still get a substantial amount of warming), and so on. But it's obviously a rapidly-evolving field. If heat pumps really are coming to water heaters, that's huge not just for PV adopters but energy efficiency across the spectrum. If my own system lasts a few more years -- and there's no reason it shouldn't last a few times a few more years -- then it'll have paid for itself. Be nice to make a sizable profit off of it by getting it to last that few times a few more years, but, if it dies prematurely, I suppose an all-electric replacement will have to be on the short list as well as a drop-in equivalent replacement. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5152 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150116/dfb08db1/attachment.bin ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT)
On Jan 16, 2015, at 8:20 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: If the amount of energy as hot water that you pull out of the garage is larger than the energy going into the garage as electric power, then the garage is cooled by the heat pump WH. Seems like the proper answer is ducting to the outside with a reversible fan. When you want to cool your indoors, draw air from outside and vent it inside. When you want to heat your indoors, draw air from inside and vent it outside. Or, if it's excessively cold outside, draw air from inside and also vent it inside and / or switch to resistive heating. Having never even heard of heatpump water heaters until a day or three ago, I wouldn't begin to speculate on how suited off-the-self models are to such a configuration. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150116/ab2d1d29/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
