from:"Martin WINLOW via EV"

Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 111, Issue 16

2022-01-26 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Re:
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:12:37 -0500
From: "EV List Lackey" mailto:evp...@drmm.net>>
Subject: World's largest lithium company mass producing solid state batteries

"...or https://v.gd/S0Z3FF 

The translation from the Chinese isn't great.  I can grok most of it but 
have no idea what on earth this is supposed to mean: 

"can be ... loaded at any time” "

My take on this:   The word ‘loaded’ is common (if confusing) english 
translation for many European words that mean ‘charged’ (ie ‘loaded with 
electrical energy’).  In this context I believe what they are saying is that 
the battery chemistry in question has few to no practical (especially 
environmental) constraints when it comes to charging eg low or high 
temperatures…  I may be talking twaddle!

As for:
"it should not be mass production in the short term. BYD does not need to 
fight for eyeballs like other car companies, but pursues technologies that 
can be popularized on a large scale at low cost and products that bring 
tangible benefits to consumers.”

I think they may be referring to ‘vision’ as in ‘forward-thinking or visionary’ 
as BYD is the very epitome of this compared to most car-makers.  Again, just a 
guess!

Regards, Martin Winlow
Isle of Colonsay
Scotland

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[EVDL] Hydrogen Isn't Green, After All (Mark Abramowitz)

2021-08-24 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Mark: "In pondering what attraction a FCEV might have over a BEV, I hit upon an
> 
>> extremely minor one.  BEVs do not shed mass as they are driven, while
>> FCEVs do.  So, FCEVs should see a very slight rise in efficiency as they
>> expend their fuel while BEVs do not.  I am NOT claiming that it should
>> be a consideration when making buying decisions.  But, since we are
>> grasping for straws, it is SOMETHING.”

This is only true for ICE vehicles in stop/go (ie urban) driving where you have 
to accelerate the mass of the vehicle up to speed and then lose all that energy 
braking to a stop again, repeatedly.  On the open road and sticking to a 
relatively constant speed, the main force using using energy is aerodynamic 
drag (and tyre/road friction plus that of the mechanicals of the drivetrain).  
In an EV, much of the braking in stop/go energy can be recovered by 
regenerative braking, thus the ’shed mass’ argument is severely undermined.  
The same applies to hilly terrain.

"As far as source of hydrogen for fuel cells, people make a wrong jump in logic 
on this. Some will say that 90% of the hydrogen made is from fossil natural 
gas, and therefore that 90% of the hydrogen used in fuel cells in 
transportation is from fossil natural gas.
*That?s* incorrect.
In California, if you were pumping hydrogen into your fuel car recently, the 
hydrogen you were pumping was 90%+ renewable, and not fossil.”

Please provide evidence of this.

In any event, to my mind it is perfectly ridiculous to waste 70% of renewably 
generated electricity by converting it to H2 and then re-converting it back to 
electricity again when you can get better than 85% efficiency by simply storing 
it in a battery instead.  That is no improvement on the equally insane waste of 
natural resources in using fossil fuelled ICEs (whilst ruining our environment 
at the same time).  At least Scania (a large European truck maker) have 
realised this recently - see newatlas.com/automotive/scania-ditches-hydrogen 
 … although why they 
didn’t realise it was a waste of time from the start given how many other large 
vehicle makers have gone down the same road in the past (Audi, IIRC, did so in 
the 90’s or early ’00’s) will remain a mystery.
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Re: [EVDL] 'All's not well with UK public charging' / Autonomy

2020-12-01 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

David Roden:
'I'm also skeptical about the future of SDVs (self driving vehicles).  I 
think that they'll eventually, maybe soon, take over in closed-circuit uses, 
but probably not on public roads.  I think that they'll be pushed out for 
sale too soon, and the resulting spectacular and highly publicised fatal 
accidents will sour the public on them.  We may also see legislation against 
them.

Limited features such as driver assistance - basic Tesla autopilot 
functionality, lane-holding features, collision avoidance, "smart" speed 
limiters  - yes, absolutely.  But full self driving - I don't think so, not 
on public roads, not in my lifetime.  "

I’m not so sure…  Ultimately it all comes down to money and if, as I suspect is 
quite feasible, autonomous vehicles develop sufficiently to the point where 
they prevent ~90% of road traffic collisions (RTC), generally, then the savings 
in financial terms will, on its own, make autonomous vehicles happen, wether we 
like it or not. The costs I’m talking about are, for example, to insurance 
companies from prevented personal injuries, to national and local government 
and related agencies and authorities in dealing with the aftermath of 
collisions (both immediate and subsequent eg emergency services, court time, 
pathologists etc, etc) not to mention the huge and often completely overlooked 
costs of post-collision traffic congestion… the list goes on.  

Regards, Martin Winlow

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[EVDL] 'All's not well with UK public charging'

2020-11-30 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV



> It's not the government’s responsibility to provide chargers anymore than
> gas stations?

Well, it is (IMO) if they ban us from using the only other practical 
alternative!  I think any reasonable person agrees that we need to move away 
from fossil-fuels but there is little point in insisting that we use EVs with 
no national infrastructure to support them.  We don’t leave the responsibility 
of maintaining our roads (especially national highways/motorways/trunk roads) 
to private companies, do we?  All the things that Lee mentions (rubbish and 
sewage disposal, burning coal, etc) they are all mandated by law to be provided 
by our local authorities and so should EV-charging (for those who can’t charge 
at home or work and for long distance driving).  On a side note, here on the 
privately owned Scottish island on which I live, the old tradition of the 
island estate supporting its employees with a sack of coal a week to provide 
space/water heating is still in place - including my immediate neighbour, much 
to my dismay!).

I think it is true that eventually private industry will figure out that having 
an EV driver (+ family) stuck on your forecourt for 30 minutes or more is a 
golden opportunity to flog them just about anything their little hearts desire. 
 A captive audience, if you will… But it is taking too long for them to figure 
it out!

Interestingly here in the UK the government *has* provided funding for local 
authorities to install rapid (fast) charging but relatively few have taken it 
up and those that have have mostly spent the money badly eg putting a rapid 
charger in a town-centre car park with no-one to supervise it (so it gets 
abused/vandalised/ICEd) and where it is practically useless for long distance 
travel as you have to battle your way through town traffic to use it.

We had the (probably fantastically expensive) TV ads with wee petrol motors 
powering toothbrushes, etc, here too - Honda.  Oh, the irony!  (Have they yet 
made and actually *really* tried to *sell* a practical EV?!)

MW 
Isle of Colonsay





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[EVDL] 'All's not well with UK public charging'

2020-11-29 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

They should *obviously* have bought a Tesla, then!  

The UK government are living in la-la land if they seriously plan to ban the 
sale of fossil-fuelled vehicles in the UK in 9 years time *if* they do not 
*seriously* deal with this very real situation, and very quickly.  

Instavolt have only 7 locations that offer more than 100kW charging in the 
whole of the UK and there are less than 70 of the same type (or better) across 
all providers, nation-wide.  The 50kW situation is much better but these are 
not really fast enough for real long-distance travel and are a very poor second 
to even Tesla’s first gen 125kW Superchargers. However, they are fine for those 
who can’t charge at home (or work) assuming they are located somewhere that 
means the EV driver can combine charging with doing something else eg shopping 
or leisure activities... and most are not.

Gridserve's much-vaunted Braintree ‘electric fuel station’ is not open yet and 
won’t, now, until next month.

And then, as the Gruniad article points out, there is the thorny issue of 
payment.  Nearly all of the *70+* UK EV charging networks have their own 
payment system; an app or an RFID card.  It is a complete farce.

Contrast all this with Tesla’s Supercharger network and you have to ask why HMG 
(Her Majesty’s Government) don’t just pay Tesla do sort it out!

MW
Isle of Colonsay
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[EVDL] (UK) 'Electric Cars To Get Green Number Plates'

2020-06-17 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/104561/electric-cars-get-green-number-plates

That’s handy.  We can use a bit of green tape to hide the once mandatory but 
now now redundant ‘EU’ symbol to the left of every number plate in the country…!


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[EVDL] J1772 (Type 1) Plug/Socket Mating Issues

2020-04-25 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

All,

For what it is worth, the early versions of Duosida (now Dostar) Type 1 (J1772) 
plugs have L, N & E connector ‘pins’ which have a small ‘collar’ around the 
open end, 1/4” or so down from the open end sitting in a groove which retains 
the collar.  The pins themselves are slit along their length into 4 equal 
segments and this allows some degree of adjustment of the inner pin hole 
diameter as it slides on to the mating male pin in the socket. The theory is 
that the collar, made of spring steel, keeps the female pin segments in contact 
with the male pin and stops the female segments from bending too much in use 
and getting damaged.

Unfortunately, early versions used monkey metal for the collars and these tend 
to rust over time.  This then binds them to the pin segments and prevents 
movement thus making it difficult for the female and male portions of the 
connector to engage.

Sometimes a small amount of penetrating fluid applied to the collars will 
loosen them up but often a new plug (or at least pin) is needed.

If the socket seal is binding (obvious when the plug engages happily initially 
but then gets hard to push in for the last 25% or so) the best lubricant to use 
is silicon spray as it does not adversely affect the (usually silicon 
rubber-based) seal in the socket.

Incidentally, spare parts for Duosida/Dostar plugs and sockets can be found at 
www.evbitz.uk  (based in Scotland).

Regards, Martin Winlow.

On 4/15/20 11:12 AM, Willie wrote:
> 
> 
> On 4/15/20 6:32 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:
>> I can attest to this problem. My I-MiEV charger I bought is really 
>> tight and actually more difficult to unplug than plug in. The one that 
>> came with the car is fine but it was 120v 8 amps.

BTW, my 2014 imievs came with 120vac EVSEs that switch between 8 and 12 
amps.

> 
> Glad to hear that!? I have two imievs and both are tight on most of my 
> EVSEs.? To the point that they don't get contact if a newbie doesn't 
> know to listen for the fan which comes on with successful contact.? It 
> hasn't bothered me enough that I have tried lubrication.? Have you?

I wrote the above, I tried lubricating.  Used some WD40 type stuff.  It 
allowed the nozzle to slip in easily.  The first time.  After a few 
days, it refused to go in no matter how much force I applied.

It seems the lubricant had caused swelling in a plastic seal in the EVSE 
nozzle.  I ended up fishing the seal out (and discarding) with a sharp 
hook type tool.  Now, insertion is easy. It could be that a slightly 
swollen seal was the source of the problem.

So, if you wish to try lubrication, I suggest trying something more 
viscus than common spray lubricant.  Grease, petroleum jelly or somesuch.

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Re: [EVDL] Charging-EVr PD-assaulted pushed, handcuffed, punched, pepper-sprayed +

2015-04-27 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Sorry, but I am at a loss to understand why we are even discussing this.  Who 
knows what *really* happened.  Why didn't the driver just show the police his 
ID?  He has complained about the incident and I gather he has been charged and 
will attend court in due course and give his side of the story.  Hopefully some 
enlightened magistrates/judge/fellow peers will decide what happens next and 
that *should* be that... or are we saying that because this driver is 
*allegedly* 'black' he should be dealt with differently by police who it 
appears were obviously investigating an allegation of some sort?  MW


On 27 Apr 2015, at 03:30, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Either something huge is missing from the story or we're seeing incredibly poor 
judgment by police officers.  It seems to me, especially with all the recent 
awareness, that police chiefs would be on heightened alert for retraining their 
officers to abstain from racial profiling.  Then, even if making a mistake, why 
all the aggressive action?  Thanks, Bruce, for bringing this to attention 
(though I suspect this will be all over the headlines).

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 26-Apr-15 5:35:27 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Charging-EVr PD-assaulted pushed, handcuffed, punched, 
pepper-sprayed +

 
 
 % Always show your ID EV-ignorant profiling-police will assault charging
 EVrs %
 
 http://www.santamonicadispatch.com/2015/04/committee-for-racial-justice-calls-emergency-meeting-tonight/
 COMMITTEE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE CALLS EMERGENCY MEETING TONIGHT
 April 26, 2015  by Peggy Clifford
 
 The Committee for Racial Justice has called an emergency meeting tonight to
 discuss an apparent assault Tuesday night on a Black man by Santa Monica PD.
 
 The meeting will be held at The Church in Ocean Park, 235 Hill Street, Santa
 Monica at 7:00 pm. As this is a community problem, the Committee hopes for a
 large community response.a wide-ranging discussion and the development of a
 positive and just course of action.
 
 Here is the NAACP’s account of the incident:
 
 Darrell Goode, in his capacity as SM-Venice NAACP President, has asked me to
 let you know about SMPD activity that took place at an electric car charging
 dock in Virginia Ave Park in Santa Monica on Tuesday night, April 22 that is
 the subject of community concern.
 
 The electrical charge docks are open until 11pm. A 36 year-old Black male
 who was charging his electric vehicle at 10:45pm was approached by several
 police officers, who asked for his ID. He asked “why?” Subsequently, he was
 pushed to the ground, handcuffed, punched, pepper-sprayed and taken into
 custody.
 
 The individual was charged with not following a police order. He was jailed
 and released the next day. He requi-
 red eye treatment due to the pepper spray. He has a court date May 25.
 
 A video of some of the interaction was taken by a female passerby,
 unacquainted with any of the parties.
 
 [video
 https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bwdp1kXhDPb3cmFkM01ObmpteUpnZGIzV1d0V0MzeUNoNGlF
 ]
 
 The video shows apparently egregious behavior by the police. The woman who
 took the video came forward because she believes the police behavior was
 excessive.
 
 The information on the video is incomplete. It does not show all angles, and
 it does not show the entire interaction from start to finish.
 
 On April 23, at First AME Church in Santa Monica, Darrell Goode interviewed
 the man, the passerby/ witness who videotaped part of the interaction and
 several other people.
 
 Based on information we have, there was no warrant for the man’s arrest and
 neither he, his car, nor license number fit any description based on any
 recent criminal activity.
 
 Darrell Goode has informed SMPD Chief Seabrooks, via SMPD Command Staff, of
 his efforts to assemble information and his intention to publicize it. Based
 on what is known so far, he may call a community meeting.
 
 Meantime, Chief Seabrooks has promised a full internal investigation and the
 man intends to file complaints against one or more of the officers involved.
 
 The man has the right to take his case against the officers to the City
 Personnel Board. Therefore, in addition to filing a complaint with the SMPD,
 the man intends to ask for an independent review by the Board.
 
 We are united in our unwavering commitment to non-violent advocacy for
 fairness, transparency and justice for all. .
 [© santamonicadispatch.com]
 ...
 http://www.santamonicadispatch.com/contact/
 Editor: Peggy Clifford – PegClf @aol.com
 ...
 https://sites.google.com/site/churchinoceanpark/
 The Church in Ocean Park 310-399-1631 i...@churchop.org
 https://www.fac ebook.com/churchop
 https://twitter.com/church_op
 ...
 http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/5002
 Virginia Avenue Park
 PlugScore 4.4
 Ports EV Plug (J1772)  Custom Ports Avcon conductive
 Address 2200 Virginia Ave Santa Monica, CA 90404
 Hours NOT 24/7: Chargers are

[EVDL] 'London’s First All Electric Bus Route To Be Operated By Arriva London (w/video)'

2015-04-15 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

This development (no doubt pushed through by Boris Jonson, Mayor of London) 
will do more to raise the profile and potential of a migration form ICEV to EV 
in London and the UK generally than the efforts of all the media advertising 
you could possibly pay for.  Ordinary members of the community in London will 
see first hand the benefits of EVs - assuming they are reliable, of course!

Interesting that it apparently uses a CHAdeMO charger...


http://insideevs.com/londons-first-electric-bus-route-operated-arriva-london-wvideo/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=Feed%3A+InsideEvs+%28Inside+EVs%29
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Re: [EVDL] The Tesla Factor: Elon Musk Will Force Auto Industry To Roll Out Self-Driving Cars Sooner Than You Think - Forbes

2015-04-06 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Just put a stinking comment on the article, actually.  He may be right on the 
autonomous vehicle issue but when he comes out with nonsense like 'the i8 is 
challenging the MS as the eco car of choice' you have to take anything else he 
says with a truck load of salt, let alone a pinch!  MW


On 6 Apr 2015, at 00:16, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Food for thought:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyanwyl/2015/04/02/evidence-of-forces-behind-the-tesla-factor-at-this-weeks-new-york-auto-show/?ss=tech
 

I tend to think he's right.

I also think that the first long-haul trucking company to adopt self-driving 
rigs will thereby become the dominant force in that industry.

Sure feels like we're at the cusp of a phase change, when all sorts of little 
things add up in a big and surprising way.

b

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Re: [EVDL] Seeking Advice: Reusing the battery modules from a Nissan Leaf

2015-03-25 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Quite a lot of use of these on VisforVoltage forum - mostly in Vectrixs 
(electric scooter).  MW


On 24 Mar 2015, at 17:10, Jay Summet via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 I am now the new owner of a totaled Nissan leaf purchased at a salvage yard.
 
 I'd like to hear any first hand accounts or links to tutorials/howto's/photos 
 of anybody who has done this before.
 
 The plan is to drop and disassemble the battery pack, and re-package the 
 modules into sixteen set of 3 modules in parallel. (16S3P) This will replace 
 my 20 X 6v golf cart batteries (120 volt) lead acid battery pack in a few 
 months.
 
 I am seeing advice on:
 1) How to drop the battery pack safely. I don't have a lift, but do have a 
 large concrete pad. My current plan involves multiple floor jacks under the 
 battery pack.  I know about the battery disconnect on the back passenger 
 floor, but was wondering if there was a suggested side of the pack to drop 
 first, how it disconnects, anything special to watch out for, etc..
 
 2) Specialized tools needed. Any tricky bolts/screws I'll need to purchase 
 special tools for?
 
 3) Advice on pack disassembly.
 
 4) Does anybody sell bus-bars that would be appropriate for a 3-5 cell 
 parallel pack? If I make them myself, any suggestions for material type, 
 size/width? The plan is to connect each pack of 3 cells in series using my 
 existing lead acid connection cables. (basically, replacing 20 6 volt 
 batteries with 16 7-8 volt batteries...)
 
 As one Leaf has 48 cells, I'm using 3 cell packs for now, but am considering 
 leaving room to expand each pack into 4 or 5 cells later...(extra holes on 
 one/both ends of the bus-bars that stick out a bit...)
 
 5) I'm leaning strongly towards the MiniBMS boards for leaf cells, one per 
 parallel pack of 3 cells, comments one way or the other?
 
 6) I'm willing to pay $200-$300 for some type of automated battery 
 charger/discharger with logging suitable for using on an individual 2S Nissan 
 leaf module. (To test and possibly bin the modules). Anybody know of an RC 
 type charger/tester that supports the 4.2v cells and can handle 60+Ah 
 discharge? (speed isn't terribly important...)
 
 Thanks,
 Jay

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Re: [EVDL] New Tesla Owner

2015-03-24 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Ooooh... Welcome to the club!  MW


On 24 Mar 2015, at 01:56, Mike Nickerson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 I finally jumped in with both feet and bought a used demonstration Tesla 
 Model S.  It is a 2014 model that was built just before the dual motor and 
 self driving features.  It was replaced as a demo when all the demonstration 
 vehicles were upgraded to P85d models.
 
 So far, I have driven it for one day.  It is an amazing car.  Very 
 sophisticated in an understated way.  Incredible performance.
 
 Best of all, it is bright red; the best color for a car like that.
 
 Mike

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Re: [EVDL] Plug'n Pals iPhone App for EV Owners

2015-03-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Would this work outside of the US?  MW


On 21 Mar 2015, at 19:57, via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 We all know about the apps you use to find charging stations and this is not 
 one.
 
 I've just written an iPhone app to help EV owners communicate with other EV 
 owners at a charging site. With this app, you can discuss sharing the plugs 
 or parking spaces even though you've never met the other people involved.
 
 To use participate at a site, you use your iPhone to scan the big QR code on 
 a sign that is posted at the site. The Plug’n Pals app adds that site to your 
 list and you can see and post messages to other people who are following that 
 site's messages. To create a new site, you tap the + button and give it a 
 name. You can then print out a sign, post it at the site, and get things 
 started.
 
 http://alwaysthinking.com/comingSoonToAppStore.html
 
 All constructive feedback is welcome. If you want to test the Plug’n Pals 
 app, please send me a message off-list and I'll add you to the testers pool.
 
 There is no charge for accounts and no cost during testing. If I charge 
 anything, it will be nominal and probably not even enough to pay for the 
 server. This is not a profit-based undertaking. I'm doing this because I 
 believe electric cars are a fundamental part of making our world a better 
 place.
 
 Bruce Lawton

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Re: [EVDL] postal delivery

2015-03-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Perhaps they should try doing their round in reverse!  MW


On 22 Mar 2015, at 16:31, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Glen Hoag via EV wrote:
 AFAIK, all rural carriers use their own vehicles these days. Around here, 
 some are still using ex-USPS Jeep DJ-5s, though most have been replaced by 
 newer vehicles.
 
 Around here, they all switched from private cars to postal vehicles a good 
 decade ago. There were debates at the time about safety. People using regular 
 cars had to sit on the passenger's side (to reach the mail boxes), and drive 
 with only their left hand on the wheel and left foot to (barely) reach the 
 accelerator and brake. Can't reach the turn signals, so they weren't used. 
 That led to accidents.
 
 Today, I don't know what the Post Office's policy is nationwide. Does anyone 
 have a mail carrier that uses their personal car?
 
 -- 
 We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves.
   -- George Matthew Adams
 --
 Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net

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Re: [EVDL] postal delivery

2015-03-22 Thread Martin Winlow via EV

Do you have an iphone or something else i can do a live video link on ... If
you fancy it?!

On 22 Mar 2015, at 16:57, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

My mail carrier used to use her personal vehicle (a smoke puking thing I
might add). But USPS added on package deliver in recent years as USPS is
doing last mile work for UPS, and I think Amazon. She has been driving a
multi-stop for some years now.

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Glen Hoag via EV wrote:

AFAIK, all rural carriers use their own vehicles these days. Around here,
some are still using ex-USPS Jeep DJ-5s, though most have been replaced by
newer vehicles.

Around here, they all switched from private cars to postal vehicles a good
decade ago. There were debates at the time about safety. People using
regular cars had to sit on the passenger's side (to reach the mail boxes),
and drive with only their left hand on the wheel and left foot to (barely)
reach the accelerator and brake. Can't reach the turn signals, so they
weren't used. That led to accidents.

Today, I don't know what the Post Office's policy is nationwide. Does
anyone have a mail carrier that uses their personal car?

--
We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves.
-- George Matthew Adams
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net
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A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
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Re: [EVDL] postal delivery

2015-03-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Oops! Wrongly addressed! MW

On 22 Mar 2015, at 17:00, Martin Winlow via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Do you have an iphone or something else i can do a live video link on ... If
you fancy it?!

On 22 Mar 2015, at 16:57, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Glen Hoag via EV wrote:

AFAIK, all rural carriers use their own vehicles these days. Around here,
some are still using ex-USPS Jeep DJ-5s, though most have been replaced by
newer vehicles.

Today, I don't know what the Post Office's policy is nationwide. Does
anyone have a mail carrier that uses their personal car?

--
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

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Re: [EVDL] postal delivery

2015-03-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Here in the UK we have what are called 'life-style couriers' - people who use
their own cars to deliver (and collect) parcels on behalf of a courier company
(eg myHermes and CollectPlus). They do this part time, generally, and
therefore are able to fit their courier duties in around other jobs,
housewifery, kids etc. I would think their courier-ing needs would be ideally
met by even a small, modern EV - i-MiEV/LEAF - but better still a Renault
Kangoo EV which can be bought very cheaply these days (used) but don't have the
benefit of the CHAdeMO rapid charge (they have their own but its not as rapid
nor is the infrastructure as advanced as CHAdeMO). I would have thought they
could double their income. They all use family cars anyway so space is not
going to be a problem. I must pin down my local reps and ask them how many
miles they do a day...

As for the USPS seems like the posties who use their own vehicle (if they still
do) could lead the pack but maybe the miles they do just doesn't work for
currently available EVs?

Regards, Martin Winlow
Herts, UK
http://www.evalbum.com/2092
www.winlow.co.uk

On 21 Mar 2015, at 19:11, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

K O via EV wrote:
My postal carrier would sure switch! He always delivers the mail to me when
I am working on my EV so he can see the progress..beats taking the stairs
too!Ian Wright may be better placed to offer a free truck as that is what
his new company is building.. He was an early Tesla designer, built the
Wrightspeed, with a T-zero motor if i recall correctly.
BTW I blew my DC-DC converter of 12 years+, a Zivan, Any endorsements for
current market products out there? Willing to test your product in
development = I will be showing at this year 10th anniversary Makers Faire
in San Mateo,CA seeya,KO

Both my dad and a cousin worked at the Post Office.

My dad was a gear-head... ICEs forever, EVs will never fly, etc. He saw the
EV trials as a waste of time and money. He was even a union steward for a
time in the NALC (National Association of Letter Carriers) union. They had an
adversarial relationship with management; so anything management likes, the
union automatically hates. It was (and maybe still is) just about impossible
to fire anyone. That makes it a tough environment for change.

Now my cousin was much younger. He worked a rural route where he used his own
car, instead of a free postal vehicle. The way the reimbursement schedule was
set up, the cheaper he could drive, the more money he made. He *did* see the
merits of an EV, and even considered using my surplus ComutaVan for his
route. But he was discouraged from this by the other gear-heads in the
service (if I don't drive a manly vehicle, I'll be ridiculed).

Like I said; a tough environment for change. :-(

Excellent idea Lee - I can see it now. Postperson enters Tesla Showroom and
says
'I drive a Tesla Mail Carrier for work, now I want the Model S for play.'

Maybe if the postperson's spouse is an investment banker.

But seriously... someone like Tesla *could* build a delivery vehicle that was
fun and exciting to drive. THAT would get the gear-heads to pay attention.
Wow, Bubba! You got one them 'lectrical thangs! How fast does it go? C'mon,
make it burn rubber agin!

--
We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves.
-- George Matthew Adams
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net

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Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucks be Electric?

2015-03-20 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

If I could have left a comment on the article making that exact point I would 
have... along with the fact that if this guy is that stupid (let alone stupid 
enough to allow such a ignorant comment to go onto the 'world wide web' for all 
to see) he a/ isn't fit to hold his current position and b/ isn't worth 
listening to.  So I deleted the email and moved on!  MW


On 19 Mar 2015, at 16:56, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 On 19 Mar 2015 at 14:37, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
 
 As the interviewee said, they don't travel that many miles in a day
 but they do idle the engine a lot. 
 
 Here's exactly what he said :
 
 ... you have to ask how many miles postal workers travel in a day. Not 
 many, though they travel a long time and they keep the engine idling. They 
 probably travel more in a day than they would be  able to if this was an 
 electric car.
 
 So, not many [miles], but more in a day than they would be able to if 
 this was an electric car.
 
 That's what he said.  This is what I hear: I don't have a clue how many 
 miles a postal route covers, but I've already decided that it's more than an 
 EV can handle.  Oh, no thanks, I don't need any facts; I've already made up 
 my mind.
 
 How sad - for the USPS, and for all of us.
 
 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator
 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-S drivers crying foul, 'Grousing is ludicrous'

2015-03-13 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

None of that works with a $70K+ auto  Well, all the MS owners who have 
already 'up-graded' to a D may disagree!

On 13 Mar 2015, at 01:32, Michael Ross via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Aside from the grousing problem any manufacturer has offering newer
 models...
 
 Part of the trouble for Tesla is their long backlog (a lot of development
 goes on while you wait).  And the other is the high entry cost.
 
 Apple or another tech manufacturer can roll out upgrade after upgrade, but
 there is no wait (or nothing like a Tesla wait anyway), the customer goes
 in the store and walks out with what they want.  They know, given the pace
 of consumer electronics, that the widget will soon enough be a lesser
 model.   You can sell it off or trade it in on a new one for a few hundred
 bucks.
 
 None of that works with a $70K+ auto.  You pay like that, you don't want
 someone else soon having a bigger one to swing.  It is unreasonable to
 expect that your new thing stays new.  Then there is the mine is better
 than your cache that has grown around Tesla vis a vis lesser autos.  You
 think you are going to be a bad ass, but someone who simply waited longer
 has a better car.  Waaah-waah.
 
 I think this is a minor detail for Tesla.  You don't want unhappy customers
 who have the credit to buy, but I don't see a way around this problem.  Can
 you really go back to an ICE after?
 
 On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 5:40 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 If Tesla really did assure these customers that the changes they wanted
 weren't imminent, then I have to agree that they're in the wrong.
 
 That said, IMO, this situation - buyers asking whether an upgrade is
 imminent - requires a very careful response from Tesla (or any tech
 oriented
 manufacturer or dealer, really).  It's easy for a potential buyer to hear
 what he wants to hear at that moment, and re-interpret it later.  At the
 very least, they should have been noncommittal when asked.
 
 Snip
 

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Re: [EVDL] Insurance Woes My Insurance asked if it still has a s in it and I said yes, so if I get in wreck will I be covered

2015-03-11 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

And don't forget that even if the EV body is a write off there is pretty good 
chance the electric drive train (battery pack, inverter, DC/DC converter, 
gearbox/adaptor/motor and instrumentation) ie all the expensive bits - will 
probably be salvageable.  Ask me how I know!  So liability, fire and theft 
('3rd party, fire and theft' as we call it in the UK) would do and that might 
be enough to get a quote compared with 'fully comp(rehensive)'.  MW


On 11 Mar 2015, at 00:08, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Not sure that I completely understand your question -
 Liability insurance is just that - the coverage for damage you do to others.
 That does not cover your own vehicle, obviously. If you are at fault, the 
 loss on your vehicle is your problem
 but since I have been able to buy all my vehicles with cash, I can live with 
 that loss and buy another cash
 if I lose my car, since my cars are typically below $3k and I save 
 significantly by not full coverage insurance
 since I find it ridiculous to pay around $1000 per year for a car that has a 
 value not much above that amount.
 The savings on insurance alone allow me to drive a used Prius for free...
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless
 
 office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
 XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
 www.proxim.com
 
 
 This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
 proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
 message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
 use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
 prohibited.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: sandl...@cox.net [mailto:sandl...@cox.net] 
 Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 4:52 PM
 To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Insurance Woes My Insurance asked if it still has a s in 
 it and I said yes, so if I get in wreck will I be covered
 
 
  Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: 
 I currently drive a conversion EV truck that has liability insurance via 
 Farmers.
 I always tell my agent what it is that I am bringing to him, I do not 
 know if he reports everything to the underwriter besides that it is a 
 1989 Ford Ranger with industry standard VIN and simply omits that it no 
 longer has a 4-banger.
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless
 
 office +1 408 383 7626   Skype: cor_van_de_water
 XoIP   +31 87 784 1130   private: cvandewater.info
 www.proxim.com
 
 
 This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
 proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received 
 this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any 
 unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this 
 message is prohibited.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mike 
 Nickerson via EV
 Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 4:42 PM
 To: Lee Hart; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Insurance Woes
 
 State Farm didn't have any problem with a production EV.  It was the fact 
 that it was a conversion that caused the grief.  I was actually pretty 
 pissed about the way it went down.
 
 Before I bought the conversion, I asked my agent if they could insure it.  I 
 was assured that wasn't a problem.  I buy it, bring it home and they write 
 the policy.  A month later, I get a letter from the underwriter stating that 
 my insurance was cancelled.  I then had to scramble to get insurance 
 elsewhere.  
 
 Mike
 
 
 
 On March 10, 2015 5:18:58 PM MDT, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 Cal Frye via EV wrote:
 There's no rhyme nor reason to it. I switched from Nationwide to
 State
 Farm 'cause only the latter would insure my GEM.
 And yes, I started in the Yellow Pages with AAA and finally stopped
 with
 State Farm...
 
 Oddly enough my EVs are both insured with State Farm. Both a 2013 
 Leaf,
 
 and a 1980 Lectric Leopard (converted Renault LeCar). They've never 
 given me any trouble.
 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BASF sez 1k+mi NiMH EV Pack 700Wh/kg, lighter-weight

2015-03-08 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Nope, I agree with Bob.  Not only do you have the expense of an unnecessarily 
large pack but you are carting around its enormous weight as well.  The effect 
on the average day-to-day efficiency of the EV would be huge especially for a 
vehicle used mostly around town in stop-go traffic.  Most families that can 
afford an EV could probably afford 2 - just like most EV owning families have 
one EV and one ICEV.  Just make the ICEV a PHEV and use that for the long range 
trips... But hey, its a free(ish) country!


On 6 Mar 2015, at 17:56, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Isn't that a bit extreme?  What about the many people who want to own only 
 one car and normally drive 20 miles a day but once a week or so go out of 
 town - to the mountains, to the beach, to the inlaws...  They could rent but 
 might prefer the convenience of having their own vehicle ready to go.
 
 Peri
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Ben Goren b...@trumpetpower.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
 ev@lists.evdl.org; brucedp5 bruce...@operamail.com
 Sent: 06-Mar-15 9:50:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BASF sez 1k+mi NiMH EV Pack 700Wh/kg, 
 lighter-weight
 
 It is ludicrous for someone to be paying for a 200 mile battery when all
 she needs is 80. As with everything else, there needs to be a variety.
 The smart EV shopper buys the -smallest- battery that meets her daily
 need. Paying for a 200 mile battery is like commuting 10 miles a day and
 dropping off the kids in a hummer.
 
 Bob, WB4APR
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
 Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 11:59 AM
 To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BASF sez 1k+mi NiMH EV Pack 700Wh/kg,
 lighter-weight
 
 On Mar 6, 2015, at 2:19 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 [T]he kind of developments being researched by BASF could very well pave
 the way to cars that could travel more than 1,000 miles on a battery pack
 the same size as the ones in today's mid-priced electric cars.
 
 I'm sure we'll never see significant numbers of thousand-mile-range cars
 on the market. That's almost twelve hours at 85 MPH, and over eighteen
 hours at 55 MPH.
 
 What we'd see long before then would be cars with half as much battery.
 Never mind the savings in money; the space and weight could be put to
 better use.
 
 Or, if a battery of that much capacity winds up in a vehicle, the vehicle
 will be something like the Hummer: hugely oversized and inefficient, but
 still with a 500-mile range due to twice the batteries.
 
 It looks like a 200-mile range seems to be the point where Joe Sixpack
 stops having crippling amounts of range anxiety (whether justified or
 not), and we're transitioning to that being not untypical. Tesla's had
 that for a while and all the rumors are about the next vehicles from
 various major manufacturers meeting that spec.
 
 I'd expect most cars to eventually settle on a 250 - 350 mile range, no
 matter what happens to battery capacity. There might be some premium
 models with a 500+ mile range for bragging / non-stop cross-country
 touring (65 MPH * 8 hours = 520 miles), but never a 1000 mile range.
 
 b
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: iMiev remains cheap EV champ nil changes, 2016 model in March

2015-03-04 Thread Martin Winlow via EV

Joe,

Everything you said is exactly mirrored by my own experience with my i-MiEV
here in the UK. It is a very versatile, comfortable, nippy and wonderfully
smooth to drive car whose external appearance very much belies its interior
roominess - in the front and rear seats.

It is a complete mystery to me why Mitsu is not capitalising on its
capabilities and market niche. If its price reflected that of the Outlander
PHEV - proportionately speaking - they would cost $15k *before* subsidies and,
therefore, would sell like proverbial hot cakes. If they can put the entire
i-MiEV drive train in the Outlander *and* add a complete hybrid drive train to
boot, let alone a body etc fully twice the size and sell it for $40k...?!

I can only assume Mitsu is not interested for some utterly baffling reason.

On 4 Mar 2015, at 17:10, JoeS. via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

I'm surprised range is even discussed on this forum, as it's simply a matter
of suitability for an individual's needs. Do the math. Considering that the
average trip distance in the US is under ten miles, 95% of the trips are
under 30 miles, and the daily average is under 40 miles, the i-MiEV's range
is more than sufficient for most commuters and daily drivers in this
country. Ref: http://www.solarjourneyusa.com/EVdistanceAnalysis.php

Opportunity charging allows the i-MiEV to easily achieve daily drives of
well over 150 miles, and that's not even using the now-standard CHAdeMO.
Since most households have more than one vehicle, if the range of the i-MiEV
is unsuitable for a particular trip, then simply arrange to take another
car.

Our family's first i-MiEV is now three years old with 37K completely
trouble-free miles on it (yes, we often put on well over 100 miles/day
despite only having the 3kW onboard charger). It quickly became the family's
primary car, and late last year we bought a second i-MiEV (used, with
CHAdeMO) because of the first one's popularity. For longer distances, the
cover comes off the Gen1 Honda Insight, although the i-MiEVs account for
over 99% of our trips. With the back seats down, the i-MiEV's flat-floor
cargo volume exceeds that of most EVs (yes, more volume than a Leaf) and its
tight turning radius and small exterior dimensions makes it a delight in
congested areas. Having the key attributes of the modern car (Active
Stability Control, six airbags, Vmax80mph, etc.) as well as multiple levels
of regen, I consider the i-MiEV a most under-appreciated modern EV which
admirably fulfills this family's needs.

-
Joe Siudzinski
--
View this message in context:
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Uber CEO sez will replace all of its drivers with Auton-EVs

2015-02-28 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

It might not happen any time soon in the US but it is already happening in 
Europe.  MW


On 28 Feb 2015, at 02:44, Alan Arrison via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 
 The constant stream of news releases regarding self driving cars is pretty 
 annoying.
 I'm sorry, I don't see it happening any time soon.
 It's just the latest tech buzzword and a way to make autos even more 
 complicated and expensive.
 Talk about opening yourself up to huge liabilities
 I can see the all the lawyers licking their chops.
 
 Al
 
 On 2/27/2015 4:05 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
 
 http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenrosenbaum/2015/02/26/the-future-of-tv-is-mobile-and-not-the-way-you-think/
 The Future Of TV Is Mobile, But Not The Way You Think
 2/26/2015  Steven Rosenbaum

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Re: [EVDL] Cold Charging Lithium Experiences

2015-02-21 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Put a mains electric blanket under them (ideally separated by a thin sheet of 
ply or aluminium) and put it on a timer.  Cheap  easy.  If you can work some 
insulation into the mix, so much the better - the foil bubble wrap stuff is 
very space efficient.  MW


On 20 Feb 2015, at 20:25, Danpatgal via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Reviving this thread as we're having another very cold stretch here in the
 Eastern US.
 
 My batteries (SE130 CALBs) are still going, but boy do they sag when it's
 cold like this.  It's annoying.
 
 I've been charging when my BMS sensors (atop each cell) are over 0C, which
 they have generally remained over the past few weeks despite the cold
 (thankfully my garage generally stays above 0C).
 
 But, my follow-up question on all this is if the BMS measurement is good
 enough.  For example, I guess there is resistive heat that gets generated
 upon charge/discharge/shunting that probably make the sensors read higher
 than the cells themselves.  How much, I don't know.  
 
 Does anybody have any thoughts, experience on this?  We've gotten down to
 -20C with a HIGH today of only -10C ... yet I'm charging.  I didn't really
 want to do it, but I was dragging so much on the road with low SOC%, I had
 to, or risk having to really limp home. 
 

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Re: [EVDL] 100 - 200 Ah LiFePO4 Cells in Europe, Where to buy?

2015-02-15 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

http://www.ev-power.eu - very efficient and 'probably' best EU prices

http://hybridautocenter.com (US but they have supplied quite a few buyers in 
the UK to my knowledge and without issue)

http://newelectric.nl - excellent comms and support (the EU side of J Rickard's 
EVTV)

MW


On 14 Feb 2015, at 21:14, Bill Dube via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Eva's dad, Sven, is looking for Li-Fe-PO4 cells for his home-built sports 
 car. He lives in Sweden, of course. Looking 30 to 35 cells, 100 to 200 Ah.
 
 Any recommendations for dealers (in Europe)? Any recommendations as to brand, 
 CALB, Winston, Sinopoly,...?
 Anybody (in Europe) have that many good used cells for sale?
 
 Just checking for my father-in-law. ;-)
 
 Thanks in advance!
 
 Bill D.
 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hanergy.cn Solar-EV by Oct 2015

2015-02-05 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Yes... Reading the piece, I was beginning to think that the Chinese (not 
exactly world-renowned for their sense of humour) have an equivalent of the 
West's April Fool, but not, it appears. MW


On 4 Feb 2015, at 03:52, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 They are only an order of magnitude off.
 Their claim is 6 square meters of thin film solar panel on a car.
 If you look at a typical car, you will see that 4 square meters
 (40 square feet) of panels would be a stretch (pun intended)
 So in practice it will be exceedingly hard to get more than 500W
 From a car's surface in practical use.
 4 hours means no more than 2kWh, which is typically enough for 8-10miles
 Or about 12-16 km. That is a long way from 80-100km as claimed.
 Unless they have a bicycle instead of a car in mind.
 
 Cor van de Water
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Alan Arrison
 via EV
 Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 7:10 AM
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Hanergy.cn Solar-EV by Oct 2015
 
 Good luck with that.
 
 Al
 
 
 On 2/3/2015 1:24 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
 
 http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/905499.shtml
 Renewable giant says will unveil solar vehicles by Oct By Chu Daye  
 2015-2-2
 

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Re: [EVDL] IR cameras - energy tool

2015-01-25 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

If you own an iPhone (or probably other smart phones too) you can get a 'caddy' 
that turns your phone into a TI camera.  Might be a cheaper/more convenient way 
of doing this as the dedicated cameras are, as you say, quite exy!  Have a look 
on eBay etc. MW


On 24 Jan 2015, at 16:12, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 I borrowed an IR camera to look around the house.  Its amazing waht these
 $400 cameras can see.  In my old house, I can see vertical columns in the
 walls where the blown in insulation never reached.
 
 ...

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Re: [EVDL] Coal Ash? (Was:PNAS report cites study that EV's pollute more than gas cars.)

2014-12-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Turn them into insulating building blocks - that's what they do in Europe

http://www.heidelbergcement.com/uk/en/hanson/products/blocks/sustainability/thermalite_sustainability.htm

... but I seee the same thing happens in the US...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_ash

MW


On 22 Dec 2014, at 00:18, Bill Dube via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 What about the nasty coal ash that is typically left over when they burn 
 coal. Great piles/pools of it are stored forever it seems next to coal 
 fired plants.
 
 Bill D.
 
 On 12/21/2014 4:11 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
 Thanks!
 
 It looks like they were going to get their CO2 sequestration equipment from 
 Htcenergy.com.  Found nothing about criteria pollutant emissions. I suspect 
 that the marketing of this project led Roland to believe that it was a zero 
 emission project, when this was not the case.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Turning over a Used Leaf :-)

2014-12-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Hi Bill,

Glad to hear of your recent LEAF purchase.  They are getting quite common on 
the streets of the UK.  For me, buying used is a total no-brainer.  A good 
example here can be bought for much the same price as you have paid (given the 
current exchange rate).  My neighbour (who 'makes' honey) bought one a month 
back and can't keep his wife out of it.  They are total converts.  He can now 
afford to supply lots more local shops with his honey as it costs him so little 
to deliver compared with the diesel vehicle he replaced with the LEAF.   It is 
such a nice combo. A natural product - delivered renewably.

I'm trying to get him to cover the hill behind his house with PV next.  It 
could then run the house, the 'factory' (which is surprisingly energy intensive 
- melting all that beeswax, filling jars etc) and the car off renewable power 
(albeit via the local utility co)!

Regards and season's greetings, 

Martin Winlow
EVBitz.uk


On 22 Dec 2014, at 06:30, Bill Dube via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 It is a 2012 SL model, so yes, it does have the L3 Chademo fast charge 
 port.
 
 Know of any nifty hacks for connecting my existing PFC-50 up to the L3 
 charging port? That would cut my charge time almost in half, if someone has 
 figured out how to do it.
 
 Bill D.
 
 On 12/21/2014 11:11 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
 Does it have the L3 Chademo inlet?
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
 Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
 Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via
 EV
 Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 9:55 PM
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Turning over a Used Leaf :-)
 
 Hi Chris,
 
  It is really nice just the way it is. Plenty of pep. It handles
 quite well. Can't think of a thing I might change.
 
  Perhaps if there is some aftermarket upgrade to make the charger
 bigger, I might consider doing that.
 
  Bill D.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Archaic Salacious Electricians.au cast EVs as bogeyman

2014-12-15 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

I gather (from Plugshare) that most AU Level 2 public EVSEs are either tethered 
J1772 or a Type 2 (Mennekes) socket.  In the former case, a simple J1772 (Type 
1) to Mennekes (Type 2) converter would work fine.  You could make one yourself 
for AU$200 and no degree in rocket science required.  In the latter case an 
equally simple Type 2 to Type 1 cable would be equally fine and still cost 
about $AU 200 (eg www.EVBitz.uk!).

Regards, Martin Winlow.


On 15 Dec 2014, at 11:34, John Lindsay via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 The Australian delivered Teslas have the UK style, 3 phase, Mennekes 
 connector for charging rather than a J1772.
 
 The official word from Tesla Australia is that a J1772 to Mennekes adaptor 
 will not work with the car.
 
 I’m a little skeptical about this.
 
 They are readily available in the UK and claimed to work with a Tesla Model S.
 
 I will get to experiment with this on Simon’s car if and when the Juicebox 
 shows up.
 
 John Lindsay
 
 
 On 15 Dec 2014, at 9:32 pm, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 
 
 'Any j1772 EVSE will work fine, with a suitable adaptor'
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] Charter change?

2014-11-23 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Peri - Your argument gets my vote.  MW


On 23 Nov 2014, at 06:12, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 I think you're right, Ben, but I don't think that plug-in hybrids should be 
 part of the charter.   If someone wants to ask questions or discuss how to 
 add EV capabilities to an existing vehicle (ICE or hybrid or whatever), 
 that's fine.  But I don't want to see discussions on the merits of hybrids 
 and how to fine tune them to best performance.  I don't think that helps 
 advance the principles of EVs.
 
 For example, it's one thing to discuss the latest advancements in battery 
 technology or the functionality of a BMS.   It's another thing to argue over 
 the best balance between ICE performance when augmented with an electric 
 motor.
 
 My feelings orient towards the lofty vision of a pure EV world where high 
 electrical energy storage is practical and the standard vehicle is powered by 
 such storage device and an electric motor.  Hybrids and anything else that 
 relies on a supplementary fuel supply is a distraction and simply an 
 intermediate solution.
 
 So, yes, let's encourage people to buy or build hybrids and other 
 intermediary vehicles but let's not change evdl from focusing on the more 
 distant, abstract goal.
 
 Peri
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Lee Hart leeah...@earthlink.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
 ev@lists.evdl.org
 Sent: 22-Nov-14 10:38:59 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Charter change?
 
 On Nov 22, 2014, at 11:20 AM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 So, how about if the charter restricts it to vehicles powered by electric 
 motors and a fuel source *other than* conventional gasoline, diesel, or 
 other fossil fuels?
 
 In other words, itemize what fuel sources the list is NOT for discussing
 
 Even then, I don't think there should be a one drop purity test. Plugin 
 hybrids are, in many instances, almost exclusively electric vehicles in 
 practice. I don't think the Volt or the new BMW should be verboten, 
 especially considering that few owners of those vehicles will stop at a gas 
 station more than a couple times a year despite driving them daily.
 
 If the vehicle gets a significant portion of its motive energy from an 
 external source of electricity, it should be fair game. How the vehicle 
 stores that energy onboard, and whether or not the vehicle also takes on 
 energy from non-electric sources, shouldn't matter.
 
 The Honda Insight shouldn't be a suitable vehicle for discussion, but, if 
 somebody comes here owning an Insight and wants to replace / expand the 
 battery pack and add a cable to plug it into the wall, we should be excited 
 to help that person do so, even if the gasoline engine stays onboard after 
 the modifications. (And, yes, part of the advice should be to consider 
 ditching the gasoline engine in favor of expanded electric performance, but, 
 though that's often a good idea, it's not always the most suitable option.)
 
 Of course, it's easy to imagine a big auto manufacturer creating a 
 compliance vehicle that's a typical non-plugin hybrid with a tiny battery 
 and the addition of a plug that'll give the vehicle a mile or three of 
 electric range. I think we'd want to know about those sorts of vehicles and 
 how to discourage their use; or, alternately, be open to helping people with 
 modifications to such vehicles to give them meaningful all-electric ranges.
 
 We all here acknowledge that BEVs aren't yet one-size-fits-all solutions, 
 and that there are many real-world scenarios where they're not suitable. 
 What I don't personally understand is why so many encourage the use of a 
 separate pure-gasoline vehicle to fill those gaps and discourage the use of 
 a plugin hybrid. Two cars are better than one...because...why...?
 
 b
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Re: [EVDL] Lit C1 does the slalom and now has a tailgate.

2014-11-04 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Yes, it's amazing what the appearance of a foxy chic does to improve one's 
outlook!  MW

On 4 Nov 2014, at 02:41, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

  There has been a lot of speculation about the C1. Now it's performing and 
 evolving.  My confidence in the vehicle just went up 1000%. Lawrence Rhodes
 
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxTRox3Vt9Efeature=youtu.beutm_source=Lit+Newsletterutm_campaign=187d83b11d-Pre_order_Newsletter_October_201410_17_2014utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_18de925803-187d83b11d-53965821

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Re: [EVDL] Lightobject meter experience

2014-10-13 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

The problem I have with relying on simple pack voltage measurement to control 
the charger is that eventually, as the pack ages, one or more cells are going 
to go out of balance, become the 'weakest link' and cause the capacity of the 
pack as a whole to unnecessarily reduce.  From a safety perspective (safety of 
the pack) I suppose the Light-meter method is as good as any but it is the 
vagueness of its operation that is the issue for me.

Maybe we'll see that cells of certain types simply don't change their behaviour 
relative to the rest in a given pack but it seems unlikely.  If the pack does 
go out of whack then it is going to be a potential pain to balance them 
manually.  But for some the cost saving of not having a BMMS may outweigh the 
agro. MW


On 12 Oct 2014, at 22:11, Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Problem is no one has actually proved that with experimentation. Not in any 
 of my reading. You can believe what ever you like.
 
 I have used ammeter for 2 years now. The voltage always end exactly the same. 
 The next day the pack is the pack is exactly 147 volts.
 
 I have never seen any study done on top balancing lithium batteries. I would 
 love it if someone should come up with one. That a left over procedure from 
 lead acid batteries on which it actually works.
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Oct 12, 2014, at 4:02 PM, Cruisin via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 Using a meter to turn off a charger at a pre-programmed voltage can be very
 risky. A BMS is designed to perform this function, but turns off the charger
 when a single cell reaches the pre-programmed voltage, after permitting all
 cells to achieve the same voltage by shunting. It also protects against over
 dis-discharge. A single meter cannot perform these tasks in anyway shape or
 form. The SOC meter provides all the information concerning usage and is
 VERY accurate and programmable. All American electric production cars use
 very sophisticated BMS systems to achieve longevity due to a mandatory
 8-year 100k mile warranty required in CA. Don't risk a expensive Li-ion
 battery pack by relying on a meter to shutoff the charger at a set voltage.
 Could be used as a backup if desired. If we learn from the big guns on how
 they do it, we will be on the right track and prevent a disaster that too
 many can attest to. My 2-cents worth.
 

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Re: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.

2014-10-12 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Well, I'm not a scammer - just interested. So, where *do* you get them?  MW


On 11 Oct 2014, at 21:01, Cruisin via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Currently have in stock both NEW Leaf and VOLT modules as well as BMS wire
 harness for the Volt, and Mini BMS for both Leaf and Volt modules. Volt
 modules available in 24vdc, 48vdc and 96vdc. Out of stock on Ford Focus
 modules until 10/29/14. Not selling wrecks like others. Scammers don't need
 to ask me where I get them as they are wasting their time.
 
 
 

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[EVDL] Scraped New Israli Renault Fluence Battery Packs Coming onto the Market?

2014-10-12 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

http://www.israellycool.com/2014/08/27/destroying-turkish-made-electric-cars/

Does anyone know if these vehicles still have their battery packs?  If so, what 
are the chances of the packs still being viable and coming onto the market for 
're-purposing' (a la the EVTV ones)?

MW
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[EVDL] Fwd: Need Lithium batteries.

2014-10-12 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Nice!  MW

Begin forwarded message:

 From: allan bullock crui...@live.com
 Subject: RE: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.
 Date: 12 October 2014 13:33:56 BST
 To: 'Martin WINLOW' m...@winlow.co.uk

 You are a scammer. Its not polite to ask a vender for his source. Maybe in
 the UK you think its OK.

 -Original Message-
 From: Martin WINLOW [mailto:m...@winlow.co.uk] 
 Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2014 12:51 AM
 To: Cruisin; EVDL Post Message
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Need Lithium batteries.

 Well, I'm not a scammer - just interested. So, where *do* you get them?  MW

 On 11 Oct 2014, at 21:01, Cruisin via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Currently have in stock both NEW Leaf and VOLT modules as well as BMS 
 wire harness for the Volt, and Mini BMS for both Leaf and Volt 
 modules. Volt modules available in 24vdc, 48vdc and 96vdc. Out of 
 stock on Ford Focus modules until 10/29/14. Not selling wrecks like 
 others. Scammers don't need to ask me where I get them as they are wasting
 their time.

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Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries direct from China

2014-10-01 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Hi,

My motorcycle has 40AH GBS cells of which I use only 2 1/2 C and the cells are 
still doing great 3 1/2 years later.   

To give us some terms of reference, what does your M/C pull in amps at a steady 
50mph and 70mph (if you go that fast!) and on strong acceleration?  And how 
many miles does 3.5 years equate to, please?

Regards, MW.


On 30 Sep 2014, at 20:06, Byron James via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Steve Clunn wrote Didn't know you where testing so many cells , I just put 
 66 60 ah GBS's in a BMW they seem to be doing good. time will tell, they are 
 dishing out 5 c without the cell voltage dropping below 3v .
 
 Yikes - the GBS specs call out max continuous discharge  3C. I would be 
 careful pulling 5C.  A Local GBS distributor destroyed, within a month, GBS 
 cells charging and discharging GBS cells at 3C.  I don't have their test 
 procedure but it made me think twice about pulling 3C from GBS cells.  
 My motorcycle has 40AH GBS cells of which I use only 2 1/2 C and the cells 
 are still doing great 3 1/2 years later. 
 
 On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:40 AM, Steve Clunn via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 Didn't know you where testing so many cells , I just put 66 60 ah GBS
 's in a BMW they seem to be doing good. time will tell, they are
 dishing out 5 c without the cell voltage dropping below 3v .
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Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries direct from China

2014-09-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

RN =...

• Niger (international vehicle registration).[from French République du Niger .]
• (chiefly in North America) Registered Nurse.
• (in the UK) Royal Navy.

?


On 22 Sep 2014, at 11:41, Matthew Parkhouse via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Hello All
 Has anyone had any experience with ordering lithium battery packs from China? 
  If so, how is the transaction at our port cities.  Apparently, these 
 companies only ship to our ports.
 
 Thanks!
 
 
 Matthew Parkhouse, RN
 hobomatt@ aol.com

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: £75k York.uk 1st converted double-decker sightseeing ebus (video)

2014-09-21 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Yes - your maths is better than mine!

We have a very convoluted attitude to units.  We decimalised in the 70's but it 
only really took for money.  Ever since we have painfully slowly been moving 
over to everything else.  So, the weather man mostly talks about Celsius (but 
occasionally throws in a few imperial references to keep the older viewers 
happy).  Distances are still almost 100% in miles (sign posts etc).  Petrol is 
now virtually 100% metric.  Food is mostly metric except for markets who seem 
to be able to switch according to the customer's needs (but the law says it 
must be displayed and weighed metrically - still have people being arrested for 
doing it imperially!)  Cookery has gone over, too (thank goodness - what the 
blazes is a 'cup'?!... except we still use teaspoons and tablespoons liberally, 
though they have an accepted precise decimal equivalent - 5  10ml resp).  
Rather off topic!  MW


On 21 Sep 2014, at 00:21, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 On 20 Sep 2014 at 11:21, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
 
 133kW LiFePO4 pack ... I'm a bit confused as to why it only gets 70
 miles or so range if it does 0.67 miles per kWh... 
 
 
 Let's see, 0.67 * 133 = 89 miles.  70 / 89 = 0.79.  So that 70 miles would 
 be roughly 80% of the theoretical maximum range.  Sounds to me as if - for 
 once - they're quoting the usable range, not the drop-dead maximum.  If so, 
 I say bravo.
 
 PS - UK measures range in miles, not KM?
 
 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator
 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: £75k York.uk 1st converted double-decker sightseeing ebus (video)

2014-09-20 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Wow!  133kW LiFePO4 pack and 150kW motor.  No word on top speed (unless I 
missed it) but a usable range of 70 miles or so.  Quite impressive and ideal 
for tootling around congested York - or any other city for that matter.  The 
converting company, Magtec, have some other interesting products on their site 
including a 120kW in-hub motor 
http://www.magtec.co.uk/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=20Itemid=158lang=en
 ).

I'm a bit confused as to why it only gets 70 miles or so range if it does 0.67 
miles per kWh...

Looks like a company to keep an eye on.

MW



On 19 Sep 2014, at 09:47, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 
 
 http://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/retrofitted-electric-double-decker-premiered/
 Retrofitted electric double-decker premiered
 by David Cole  11th September 2014
 
 

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Re: [EVDL] Electrifying Large Vehicles converting buyers to a higher mpge design

2014-09-19 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Thank you, Peri, for that interesting insight.  I'm sure Mr Musk is thinking 
along these lines already. MW


On 14 Sep 2014, at 16:11, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Well, Martin, I see it a little differently - and no offense :)  I don't know 
 how aware the typical buyer of an SUV or truck is about general cost of 
 petroleum and its effects on terrorist groups and corruption, etc.  Surely 
 some are, some aren't.  I think the real issue, however, is the choice of 
 vehicles.  The auto manufactures simply don't produce a good alternative 
 (yet).  So, if you feel you need or want a large vehicle, you can choose the 
 brand, looks, and features but not so much the fuel economy.
 
 The NHTSA (national highway transpo safety admin) rules make it uneconomical 
 for foreign manufactures to sell vehicles in the US so, with the exception of 
 a few manufactures (i.e. Honda, Toyota) that have decided to produce 
 specifically for the US market (and largely produce *in* the US), the rest of 
 the imports mostly fall into high premium vehicles.  These rules are partly 
 for safety but, I think, have quirks added to on behalf of industry lobbying 
 to protect themselves.
 
 The net result is there isn't any significant foreign competition and the US 
 auto makers can continue to build status quo - which is more profitable for 
 them in the short run.
 
 I think with the relatively recent CAFE (fuel economy) rules adopted by the 
 EPA we will see a gradual change.  I'm hoping that change will accelerate if 
 Tesla and others can produce a 200+ mile range SUV or light truck at a cost 
 (including long term fuel costs) comparable to ICE versions.
 
 Peri
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: brucedp5 bruce...@operamail.com; EVDL Post Message 
 ev@lists.evdl.org
 Sent: 14-Sep-14 4:10:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electrifying Large Vehicles converting buyers to a 
 higher mpge design
 
 (Um, Bruce, I don't want to appear rude, here, but singling out one section 
 of the population on a racial basis for criticism - certainly in this 
 context - is at best rather non-PC and at worst, a bit, well, ... 
 offensive...? I'm trying to be delicate, here! I think I know you well 
 enough to say I am sure you do not mean to be such but I suspect anyone from 
 the Latin American community would be a bit surprised at the reference. 
 Sorry if this is upsetting for you and moving swiftly on...)
 
 The overriding impression that I get as a non-US resident (and one who has 
 not yet visited the USA) is that in very general terms, the average US 
 citizen has virtually no idea of how dire the fuel economy of their vehicle 
 is compared to the rest of the world, particularly those parts of the world 
 where diesel and petrol is considerably more expensive than the USA, and not 
 do they care. (I expect some US-based EVDL readers will find this a bit 
 offensive too. Again... sorry!)
 
 Furthermore s/he has no knowledge nor interest in how significant this fact 
 is on the workings of the rest of the world especially how much oil revenue 
 is responsible for funding of various terrorist groups and the misery they 
 cause, let alone furthering the (generally) evil machinations of Big Oil.
 
 I may be wrong.
 
 I'm not a parent but think if I were I would want to do what I could, when 
 driving, to protect my children from the idiots and drunkards out there - 
 I'm sure this is a problem the world over. To that end I would almost 
 certainly consider a 'bigger' vehicle which does, of course, also make it 
 more practical to haul children as well as all the necessary clobber about 
 the place. The downside is a/ the extra cost of vehicle + fuel and b/ the 
 associated guilt (see paragraph 2).
 
 The plus side is that if car designers really wanted to, they could bring 
 the best of all worlds together and design a car/SUV that is not only fuel 
 efficient but also safe and roomy (in the UK such vehicles are called 
 'people carriers') but will anyone in the US actually buy them? As things 
 stand, the auto-makers can sell the same old same old and that's pretty much 
 all they care about... Then, along came Tesla...
 
 MW

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Re: [EVDL] Electrifying Large Vehicles converting buyers to a higher mpge design

2014-09-14 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

(Um, Bruce, I don't want to appear rude, here, but singling out one section of 
the population on a racial basis for criticism - certainly in this context - is 
at best rather non-PC and at worst, a bit, well, ... offensive...? I'm trying 
to be delicate, here!  I think I know you well enough to say I am sure you do 
not mean to be such but I suspect anyone from the Latin American community 
would be a bit surprised at the reference.  Sorry if this is upsetting for 
you and moving swiftly on...)

The overriding impression that I get as a non-US resident (and one who has not 
yet visited the USA) is that in very general terms, the average US citizen has 
virtually no idea of how dire the fuel economy of their vehicle is compared to 
the rest of the world, particularly those parts of the world where diesel and 
petrol is considerably more expensive than the USA, and not do they care.  (I 
expect some US-based EVDL readers will find this a bit offensive too.  Again... 
sorry!)

Furthermore s/he has no knowledge nor interest in how significant this fact is 
on the workings of the rest of the world especially how much oil revenue is 
responsible for funding of various terrorist groups and the misery they cause, 
let alone furthering the (generally) evil machinations of Big Oil.

I may be wrong.

I'm not a parent but think if I were I would want to do what I could, when 
driving, to protect my children from the idiots and drunkards out there - I'm 
sure this is a problem the world over.  To that end I would almost certainly 
consider a 'bigger' vehicle which does, of course, also make it more practical 
to haul children as well as all the necessary clobber about the place.  The 
downside is a/ the extra cost of vehicle + fuel and b/ the associated guilt 
(see paragraph 2).

The plus side is that if car designers really wanted to, they could bring the 
best of all worlds together and design a car/SUV that is not only fuel 
efficient but also safe and roomy (in the UK such vehicles are called 'people 
carriers') but will anyone in the US actually buy them?  As things stand, the 
auto-makers can sell the same old same old and that's pretty much all they care 
about...  Then, along came Tesla...

MW


On 13 Sep 2014, at 22:27, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 
 
 -OT pih trucks  suvs-
 
 % Following the evdl member voted charter, pih is considered an Off-Topic,
 so lets try to round up pih discussions quicker, ending them sooner than EV
 discussions %
 
 IMO, there are now plenty of sedan EVs on the market, and larger EVs coming
 including the Soul and the env200 van. And there are lots of newswire noise
 of 200mi range EVs.
 
 But when I go to local markets to do my shopping, I see large/huge trucks
 ice that are driven around as their daily vehicle which likely has low mpg.
 Low mpg not only means more pollution but it is emptying out the family's
 income to feed the pump (BO gets the profits).
 
 Not to only profile the Latino populous, but many of the vehicle they drive
 a large puffy fairly new truck or suv ice. He uses them for not only work
 but to bring the whole family to do shopping. And I also see Mom using her
 large suv ice to carry the kids and all the many other items in the back she
 feels is needed (strollers, baby-bags, food, +lots of other junk). 
 
 While Latinos may be the majority of the huge truck and suv ice drivers I
 see locally, they are the only ones. There is a sizable portion of drivers
 that like to make one vehicle have multiple uses (work, family,
 show-their-income-status, +more).
 
 But these are the same vehicles that can drain his business' assets each
 time he fills the tank. After losing my Blazer EV (in the wrong place at the
 wrong time), I had been rarely driving the used sedan ice I got until a I
 find a production EV that fits my needs (God gave me a big body). I have
 been driving it more recently since resolving my heart issues by routinely
 going to the VA hospital (20mi round-trip).
 
 But where I come to the pump, I see the poor soul that has dropped $80+ to
 fill their tank for the day. Whereas, I can get by on 1 gallon a week. That
 is a big ouch, taking a large bite out the families income.
 
 So, what is this large truck or suv ice market (what is the buyer seeking to
 purchase, etc.), and how have automakers approached making and selling pih
 versions. Automakers would have an incentive as the more pih they sell, the
 more ice model profits they can make.
 
 So what is it that large vehicle drivers described want from their purchase.
 The people I am talking to, are going by what they see their friends and
 neighbors driving: large puffy full sized pick-up trucks.
 
 These are not small nor light ice vehicles. All too often I see the driver's
 difficulty in getting out of a parking space because of its width, length,
 and larger turning radius. I liken their desire to have a large vehicle to
 wanting to have one of the biggest stallions around so

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?

2014-08-29 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why 
Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with 
a supercharger option?

I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia and Europe where 
shorter average journeys are the norm - but only with an SC option.

MW


On 28 Aug 2014, at 14:51, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 how much range  is enough...is it better to... decrease price
 without improving range or make electric vehicles go further on a charge?
 
  Why not do both?
 
 Amen.  I like the new Nissan concept of a range of batteries to match the
 individual.
 
 I do not want to spend extra 10's of thousands of dollars for an extra 50
 miles range that I only need 2% of the time.  That makes that 2% travel very
 expensive.  Back when TESLA offered three range batteries, the cost
 difference was something like an extra $50,000 to go from their smallest
 battery to the largest.  That means if one generally uses the Tesla for
 local travel, then those once a month trips over 250 miles are costing an
 extra $50,000.  For that money, one can rent a gas car EVERY weekend for 10
 years including gas, and not have to lug around the extra 500 lbs of battery
 every day commuting.
 
 On the other hand, if one travels 200 miles often, then there is no
 question, the extra $50,000 gives you a great EV to make the trip.
 
 Bob, WB4APR

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?

2014-08-29 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

I can understand all the issues people have raised on this thread.  The simple 
fact is that hardly any of the Renault range is selling.  As a long term EVer, 
I would not be swayed by the battery lease idea unless it was very cheap -  
$10/month or so.  I have sufficient faith in the battery tech of all the 
mainstream production EVs due to the empirical data we now have - bearing in 
mind some early LEAFs and i-Mievs have been going for 4 years now and have many 
10's of thousands of miles on them.  There have been extremely few horror 
stories about failing cells and indeed from Tesla we hear the exact opposite - 
cells degrading much less than anticipated.

For my money, Renault had better start offering the ZEV range including packs 
out-right as an option very soon ... or I'll be selling my shares!

MW


On 28 Aug 2014, at 22:26, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 On 28 Aug 2014 at 13:47, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:
 
 I see this as  the way to make the econobox electric vehicles possible.  The
 Nissan Leaf would sell for the same price as its essential twin the Versa and
 the battery pack would be leased.
 
 This is what Renault (Nissan's French partner) is doing with their Zöe, and 
 I think with their other EVs too.  Personally, I don't like some of the 
 terms of their lease, and probably wouldn't buy a Zöe for that reason, but 
 that's just me.
 
 From what I've read, part of the idea behind their lease - they'll sell you 
 the car, but not the battery - is to keep the car's selling price low.  I 
 think the battery lease costs about what you'd spend on on fuel for a 
 comparable car for a typical monthly driving distance; someone please 
 correct me of that's wrong.
 
 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator
 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2014 Mitsubishi MiEV Bargain basement EV

2014-08-29 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Gosh, that's interesting!  The VW e-up! is out-selling the BMW i3!  MW


On 29 Aug 2014, at 00:41, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Since when has the MiEV sold more units than the Leaf?
 
 Never according to:
 http://evobsession.com/world-electrified-vehicle-sales-2013/
 
 #1 is Leaf,
 #2 is Volt,
 #3 is Prius PIP
 #4 is Tesla
 #5 is Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (must be overseas)
 ...
 #20 (out of 21) is the MiEv
 
 Al

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?

2014-08-29 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Why make an effort to sell lower priced 40kwh cars? - Right now, I agree, but 
... because, as I previously stated, in Europe and much of Asia, long distance 
is not the issue, it's car cost and range anxiety.  If you can sell a car for 
$10k less without the buyer having to worry about range anxiety (because there 
is a good rapid charge infrastructure - SC or something else) then you'll sell 
more cars.  I appreciate that T is concentrating on supplying as many MS as it 
can at the moment... but what about 2 or 3 years time.  I would much rather buy 
an MS with 150 mile range than a Gen3 with the same range even if it cost $10k 
more.  I think lots of others would, too.  We just don't need 300 mile range, 
or 200 for that matter, 95% of the time.  Why cart around all that unnecessary 
weight and why pay for it, too, in the first place?  MW


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:16, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 On 08/29/2014 03:36 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
 Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of 
 why Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't 
 come with a supercharger option?
 
 I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia and Europe where 
 shorter average journeys are the norm - but only with an SC option.
 
 The SuperCharger network is intended primarily to facilitate cross country 
 travel.  To cost effectively implement the network, node spacing needs to be 
 maximized.  That means the network is lowest cost when it is configured for 
 longest range cars.  I am astonished (and EXTREMELY pleased) that Tesla has 
 made such rapid progress in the SuperCharger network.  A network for shorter 
 range cars would necessarily develop much more slowly.
 
 At this time, Tesla is supply constrained; they have little interest in 
 selling lower priced cars; they are selling all the 85kwh cars they can 
 produce.  Why make an effort to sell lower priced 40kwh cars?
 
 In the future, we may well see much more closely spaced SuperChargers.  For 
 now, Tesla is pursuing the right course.  IMHO.
 

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Re: [EVDL] cost of gas form Oil Sands?

2014-08-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

As I have said before, give it another 100 years or so and we'll be digging up 
all those landfill sites to recover the plastic!  MW


On 22 Aug 2014, at 01:09, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

 On Aug 21, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Peakfoto Digital Photo Still n Video via EV 
 ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 http://www.hybridcars.com/the-oil-sands-surprising-new-nemesis-plug-in-vehicles/
 
 Electric cars are Far more cost  n energy effective.
 
 At the $200/bbl range the article so casually mentions, even unimaginably 
 expensive futuristic technologies become economical -- such as using the 
 Fischer-Tropsch process (or something similar) to turn atmospheric CO2 plus 
 photovoltaic electricity into hydrocarbon fuels.
 
 Of course, as is the whole point of the article, powering vehicles directly 
 off of electricity is much, much cheaper than even refining today's tar sands 
 into gasoline...but it's comforting, at least a bit, to know both that 
 there're economic limits to how much fossil fuels we're likely to extract 
 (because alternatives, expensive as they are, will be less expensive) and 
 that we won't (exactly) run out of hydrocarbon fuels for things like combine 
 harvesters and intercontinental aircraft -- or of hydrocarbon feedstocks for 
 plastics.
 
 At the same time...imagine what that doubling of fossil fuel prices and 
 everything that relies on fossil fuels (like food) would be like. It's not 
 going to be a pretty sight. Those with local (e.g., rooftop solar) renewable 
 electricity production and electric vehicles will escape the most obvious of 
 the financial hits, but even food is going to get expensive, and the global 
 economy is going to suffer greatly...
 
 ...but, if we can make it past that without collapsing into chaos, a 
 solar-powered future should be mighty bright indeed.
 
 Cheers,
 

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Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -

2014-08-20 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

8 years or UNLIMITED miles as of last week - retroactive and transferrable, 
too!  MW


On 20 Aug 2014, at 02:50, Dennis Miles via EV wrote:

 Peri,  Watch the video, You Tube title is:  eSamba EP 29  TESLA style
 fuses  The many parallel packs in series  depend upon each pack not having
 multiple failures, one or two in each pack are no problem there are about
 50 cells in each parallel group.  If a catastrophic failure should happen
 and a cascade of the cell fuses blow, the car just stops and you get the
 battery pack replaced under warranty the first 8 years or 100,000 miles.
 (in a TESLA)
 
 Dennis Lee Miles
 
 (*evprofes...@evprofessor.com evprofes...@evprofessor.com)*
 
 * Founder:**EV Tech. Institute Inc.*
 
 *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)*
 
 *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are
 intelligent enough,  **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!*
 
 *  You Tube Video link:  http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss
 http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss *
 
 *NEW You Tube Video link: *http://youtu. be/Pz9-TZtySh8
 http://youtu.%20be/Pz9-TZtySh8
 
 
 On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 
 So, if you want individual fusible cells, then a bus bar on both terminals
 won't work.   One side can be spot welded but the other side needs the fuse
 wire - or something.  Not sure how that could be done in this model.  Does
 Tesla really have each cell fused?
 
 Part of my idea is to make each module easy to connect and swap out, if
 needed.  Also easy to pack into a tray.
 
 
 Peri
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Dennis Miles via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Lee Hart leeah...@earthlink.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion
 List ev@lists.evdl.org
 Sent: 19-Aug-14 5:29:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -
 
 The cells in the TESLA pack are a group in parallel then the parallel
 groups are wired in series for the desired voltage, The key to pack
 survival when a cell fails is a fusible link (Correctly sized short length
 of wire) in series with each and every cell then any malfunctioning cell
 is
 isolated when the link opens. (Reducing pack capacity about 2%.)
 
 Dennis Lee Miles
 
 (*evprofes...@evprofessor.com evprofes...@evprofessor.com)*
 
 * Founder: **EV Tech. Institute Inc.*
 
 *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)*
 
 *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are
 intelligent enough, **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!*
 
 * You Tube Video link: http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss
 http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss *
 
 * NEW You Tube Video link: *http://youtu. be/Pz9-TZtySh8
 http://youtu.%20be/Pz9-TZtySh8
 
 
 On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 
  Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
 
  To take this to a traction pack, I would want to try a similar design
 where strings of cells are spot welded in parallel for the desired
 current load. As I understand it, you can put as many in parallel as
 you
 want and control them with a single BMS unit.
 
 
 Well... There are those that believe this, and it is certainly done.
 
 However, think about failure modes: Sooner or later, a cell will fail.
 What happens if one of the cells in parallel shorts? All the rest will
 dump
 all their stored energy into that one shorted cell. That is very likely
 to
 result in a burst cell or even a fire. And packed like this, once one
 cell
 starts burning, it can set the rest on fire.
 
 When laptop manufacturers connected their cells directly in parallel,
 there were some dramatic failures and fires. Since then, reputable
 manufacturers are using cells with *internal* fuses and safety devices.
 Hobbyists and el-cheapo manufacturers aren't likely to use such cells.
 
 --
 The principal defect in a storage battery is its modesty. It does not
 spark, creak, groan, nor slow down under overload. It does not rotate.
 It works where it is, and will silently work up to the point of
 destruction without making any audible or visible signs of distress.
 -- Electrical Review, 1902
 --
 Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
 
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Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -

2014-08-19 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Cor,  It wasn't the losses I was aghast at it was the thought of having a 
mini-stove going in my battery box!

I was also wondering if the easiest way of measuring the cell terminal 
connection resistance would be to disconnect the pack and just put a large 
resistor across it sufficient to draw half an amp or so but what ever it was, 
very carefully measure the current flow (and keep monitoring it in case it 
changes as the resistor value changes with heat) and then measure your voltage 
drops across each connection.  Much the same as other have suggested, just a 
bit more 'regulated', maybe.  MW


On 19 Aug 2014, at 17:15, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

 Martin,
 Delivering 300A at 120V is 36,000 Watts, so losing 350W in the wiring
 and terminal connections means only 1% loss in the grand scheme of
 things.
 A single traffic light turning red in front of you so you have to stop
 and again accelerate up to speed is likely a bigger difference in the
 efficiency of a trip...
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
 Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
 Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
 Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 9:08 AM
 To: Martin WINLOW; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -
 
 Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
 Depends on your current. Typically I would say in the order of
 magnitude of 0.1 mOhm (milliOhm) because a 300A current will then
 give 30mV drop, which produces 300A x 0.03V = 9 Watt of power loss
 as heat.
 
 Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
 At EVERY connection?  In a 120V lithium pack that 's 38 x 9 =
 nearly 350W of heat!
 
 No; Cor has it right. And, 0.1 milliohms is a *good* connection. You 
 will discover that it is damnably difficult to make a connection that 
 good with aluminum terminals!
 
 -- 
 You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change
 something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.
   -- R. Buckminster Fuller
 --
 Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -

2014-08-17 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

What, as a matter of interest, is an acceptable amount of resistance in a 
battery or cell terminal connection?  MW


On 17 Aug 2014, at 00:48, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

 On 16 Aug 2014 at 14:04, Lee Hart via EV wrote:
 
 The technique has been described many times on the EVDL. It must be in 
 the archives somewhere. Before I type it all in yet again, maybe we can 
 find it?
 
 Here's one method.
 
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4657626|a4657642
 
 Just to be clear, he means you should measure voltage drop across the 
 intercell link cable or strap, NOT across the cell or battery itself!
 
 I usually measure the voltage drop from the center of the battery post to 
 the clamp itself.  That's easy with lead batteries - there's lots of post 
 area for contact.  I don't know whether that's the case with your lithium 
 cells.  But the principle remains - pass a known current through the 
 connection and measure the voltage drop.   Calculate the resistance (if you 
 care) with Ohm's law.  Or just look for connections with exceptionally high 
 voltage drop.
 
 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -

2014-08-17 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

At EVERY connection?  In a 120V lithium pack that 's 38 x 9 = nearly 350W of 
heat!  Sounds a lot and I'm pretty sure my battery box didn't ever get *that* 
hot!  But then, I suppose that would only be under acceleration... my normal 
cruising current was less than half that but that's still 150W.  Still sounds a 
bit high?   MW


On 17 Aug 2014, at 09:07, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

 Depends on your current.
 Typically I would say in the order of magnitude of 0.1 mOhm (milliOhm)
 because a 300A current will then give 30mV drop, which produces
 300A x 0.03V = 9 Watt of power loss as heat.
 
 Cor van de Water
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Martin WINLOW
 
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] CALB bolt terminals getting hot -
 
 What, as a matter of interest, is an acceptable amount of resistance in
 a battery or cell terminal connection?  MW
 
 

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[EVDL] 'We're developing a prototype battery powered train'...

2014-08-15 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2013/aug/We-are-developing-a-prototype-battery-powered-train/
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[EVDL] 'France May Give Diesel Car Owners 10, 000 Euros To Switch To Electric Vehicles'

2014-08-13 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

http://www.ibtimes.com/france-may-give-diesel-car-owners-1-euros-switch-electric-vehicles-1656682
   
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Re: [EVDL] To Noalox, or Not to Noalox

2014-08-08 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

I think REAP's results speak for themselves. Brushing is quite a bit easier
than sanding but just watch you dont short a pair of terminals if you are using
a long steel-wired brush!

But as Michael suggests, in a damp environment, such as a marine application
for example, the Noalox might prevent moisture from penetrating the joint and
increasing its resistance over time. On the other hand, just using some
petroleum grease (or similar) would probably work just as well. MW

On 8 Aug 2014, at 04:38, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

The theory that is being proposed is that the noalox or grease will provide
better results over some time in service - particularly where there are
dissimilar metals in contact. That makes sense to me. I like the idea of
brushing much better than sanding. But, fine grit polishing sounds OK to
me.

I guess you have to buy the idea that the zinc particles in noalox do bind
up free oxygen, providing anodic protection within the joint. If the joint
was dry, and the grease does not deteriorate, then I I think it might be
speculative marketeering, and product differentiation that touts the zinc.

It would be interesting to see this tested somehow.

On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Rick Beebe via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

REAP Systems in England did test that in a lab last year. You can see a
video presentation they did on the EVTV web site. Go to video archives,
August 16, 2013. A direct link is
http://media3.ev-tv.me/news081613-iPhone.m4v. The presentation starts at
23 minutes and the results are around 36 minutes.

Instead of sanding they used a steel bristle brush to remove the tarnish
from the terminals and busbars. They discharged the cells at 300 amps in
60 second bursts 30 times. The BMS was monitoring individual cell
temperatures and if they exceeded 45C it would reduce the current. They
strapped 7 100Ah cells together.

With uncleaned terminals they got one cycle before having to reduce the
current because of temperature. The warmest cell got up to 55C after 10
cycles.

With cleaned terminals there was no reduction in current until after 11
cycles when the warmest cell got up to 45C. The warmest cell eventually
got just above 50C but after those 11 cycles they'd already drawn half
the capacity of the cells.

Interestingly there was virtually no difference when they added the
grease. So if you think the grease will help prevent corrosion that's
fine. But it doesn't seem to do anything to help the connection.

--Rick

On 7/31/2014 12:43 PM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

With aluminum, you just cannot expose bare un-oxidixed metal, it is not
possible to do this, so I am not happy with the sanding idea. The sanding
has to be helpful on some other basis if it is indeed helpful.

Be interesting if someone has compared greased un-sanded to greased and
sanded.

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--
Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
*Dalai Lama *

Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
Mary Oliver, The summer day.

To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 550-2430 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
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[EVDL] 'Diesel car drivers 'betrayed' as EU cracks down on Britain over air pollution'

2014-08-02 Thread Martin Winlow via EV

This won't hurt EU EV uptake...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/11007326/Diesel-car-drivers-betrayed-as-EU-cracks-down-on-Britain-over-air-pollution.html

MW
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[EVDL] Fwd: TD - 2433(1) - CCTV successfully downloaded

2014-08-01 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Begin forwarded message:

From: martin.win...@met.pnn.police.uk
Subject: TD - 2433(1) - CCTV successfully downloaded
Date: 31 July 2014 08:32:00 GMT+01:00
To: m...@winlow.co.uk

From: Dalton Katherine - STC On Behalf Of ST Mailbox - Data Requests
Sent: 30 July 2014 11:57
To: Winlow Martin - STC
Subject: TD - 2433(1) - CCTV successfully downloaded

Dear Martin WINLOW,

The CCTV that you have requested relating to the TDRT number has been
successfully downloaded.
Please collect the CCTV from London General at MARSH LANE, NORTHUMBERLAND
PARK, TOTTENHAM, LONDON, N17 0XB as soon as practicable.
The garage has provided the following contact details. 020 7064 5778 or email
cctv...@goaheadlondon.com

The reference number you gave was 5216191/14 and this was on route 491
The reference number given by the garage (if any) was:

Please have the CCTV collected within 7 days, failure to do so will result in
more emails and your management informed. Garages may dispose of discs if not
collected.

Kind Regards,

TDRT

Total Policing is the Met's commitment to be on the streets and in your
communities to catch offenders, prevent crime and support victims. We are
here for London, working with you to make our capital safer.

Consider our environment - please do not print this email unless absolutely
necessary.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart Fortwo EV's Resiliency Safety (videos)

2014-07-27 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Have you any evidence to suggest there is a problem with rear impact 
performance?  MW


On 26 Jul 2014, at 03:51, Al via EV wrote:

 Notice there is no *rear* crash test.
 
 Al
 
 - Original Message - From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 3:26 AM
 Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart Fortwo EV's Resiliency  Safety (videos)
 
 
 
 
 http://www.benzinsider.com/2014/07/videos-show-the-resiliency-of-the-smart-fortwo/
 Videos Show the Resiliency of the Smart Fortwo
 By Giancarlo Perlas | July 17, 2014
 
 [image
 http://www.benzinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/tridion-safety-cell-of-smart-fortwo.png
 The tridion safety cell of the Smart Fortwo
 
 
 videos
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=v708z67ALww
 smart fortwo vs. S-Class - crash test
 Daimler AG Jul 17, 2014 ...
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=sKSPxQjPOm0
 Mercedes C vs smart fortwo - Crash test compatibilità IIHS, Sicurauto.it
 sicurauto Apr 30, 2009
 http://www.sicurauto.it - Crash test compatibilità IIHS - Mercedes C vs
 smart fortwo - 64 km/h
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=asJThp-OfpE
 smart car Safety -- smart car Commercial on Tridion Safety Cell -- smart USA
 smart USA Sep 19, 2012
 Go behind the scenes on the making of the smart car commercial about the
 strength of the tridion safety cell. Witness how smart's tridion cell can
 easily carry a full-size SUV with absolutely no problem.
 ]
 
 One of the key selling points of the Smart Fortwo is its ultra-durable
 tridion safety cell. Basically, the feature has been patented by Daimler’s
 Smart division to offer maximum protection to the electric vehicle’s
 occupants, which comes in addition to the safety functions provided by the
 car’s seatbelts and airbags.
 
 According to the Smart website, the tridion safety cell is inspired by roll
 cages found in racecars. It is made of high-strength steel, which is
 engineered to evenly distribute the force from a crash.
 
 To demonstrate how the safety frame of the Smart Fortwo can hold up to a
 real-life collision on the road, Daimler recently released several videos
 that involve crashing the small car to much bigger cars like the
 Mercedes-Benz S-Class and C-Class sedan.
 
 Below is a video displaying the result of the Smart Fortwo versus
 Mercedes-Benz S-Class collision test:
 
 In comparison, the Fortwo is barely half the size of the S-Class sedan,
 making the match a David versus Goliath type of contest. However, the
 smaller vehicle surprisingly held up against its Mercedes big brother in a
 50 km/h head-to-head crash. The result was nothing short of impressive
 because the two cars, despite their totally wrecked hoods, were able to
 protect their respective occupants. This is a proof of Daimler’s consistency
 in providing safety to its customers regardless if its buyers have chosen
 its luxury vehicles or its smart cars.
 
 [Watch] another video pitting the Fortwo against the C-Class in a 64 km/h
 collision, which produced the same result:
 
 Lastly, [watch the video of] an old advertisement showing how the roof of
 the Smart Fortwo can hold 7,000 pounds of weight:
 
 Videos Show the Resiliency of the Smart Fortwo
 [© benzinsider.com]

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Renault 16ton Electric Delivery Lorry/Truck

2014-07-24 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

It is in Europe!  MW

On 24 Jul 2014, at 04:01, Al via EV wrote:

 - Original Message - From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:17 AM
 Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: Renault 16ton Electric Delivery Lorry/Truck

 Since when is Renault renowned for its electric cars?

 Al

 Renowned for its electric car range, Renault is now turning its attention to
 electric lorries, with the new two year trial of experimental fully electric
 truck, run in association with Speed Distribution Logistique and the
 prestigious fragrance brand.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-23 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Calling Nikola Tesla! Calling Nikola Tesla! Come back! All is forgiven!

I bet *he'd* have something to say on this subject! MW


On 21 Jul 2014, at 20:24, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

 From: Peri Hartman
 Is it possible to use multiple coils to focus the beam?
 
 Magnetic fields are devilishly difficult to direct or focus.
 
 With electricity, we have great conductors (copper, silver, etc.) and great 
 insulators (air, plastics, etc.) There are *many* orders of magnitude 
 difference in their conductivity, so we can tightly control where the current 
 flows.
 
 With magnetics, we have no good conductors, and no good insulators. It's as 
 if our best electrical conductor was carbon (which we make resistors out of), 
 and our best insulator was water (which conducts pretty well, especially if 
 dirty). Imagine trying to make a circuit work where the conductors are all 
 carbon, and it's submerged in water, which partially shorts everything to 
 everything else!
 
 (Superconductors can give us good magnetic insulators; but they don't work 
 except at cryogenic temperatures).
 
 I don't know wave theory but I believe directional radio transmitters work
 by having two or more antennas. Can something similar be done with inductive 
 coils?
 
 Yes; sort of. Every electric field inevitably has a magnetic field, and vice 
 versa. That's why we call it electromagnetics. However, for these fields to 
 act like waves, which we can focus and direct like light, the frequencies 
 need to be very high. The elements of a directional antenna need to have 
 dimensions on the order of 1/4 wavelength or more.
 
 Wavelength (in meters) = 300 / Frequency (in MHz). At 100 MHz (the frequency 
 of FM radio and the old VHF television), the wavelength is about 3 meters -- 
 so a 1/4 wave antenna is about 0.75 meters or 30 long. It's not too hard to 
 make antennas with multiple elements in parallel to focus and direct these 
 frequencies (like the traditional TV antennas that look like giant metal 
 combs).
 
 At 1 MHz (the AM radio broadcast band) the wavelength is about 300 meters; 
 thus the tremendously high towers needed to effectively transmit it (the 
 whole tower is the antenna). It's hopeless to make receiving antennas this 
 big. We have to use far smaller antennas, that are far less efficient and 
 require substantial amplification to work.
 
 The inductive chargers mentioned here are using 85 KHz. The wavelength is on 
 the order of 3500 meters! It's impossible to direct such frequencies with the 
 techniques used for radio antennas.
 
 Vicor makes switchmode converters that operate just over 1 MHz; about the 
 highest practical frequency for state of the art switchmode converters. They 
 had to go to heroic lengths to get their transformers to operate with 
 reasonable efficiency (90%). Such frequencies are not yet practical for high 
 power converters.
 
 Lower frequency transformers are more efficient. Conventional 60 Hz 
 transformers can be over 99% efficient, if you use enough copper and iron. 
 But to do so, they require *very* tight coupling between the primary and 
 secondary -- minimal gap between them. This is the opposite of the 
 requirement to have some separation between primary and secondary as imposed 
 by the wireless charging proponents.
 
 I think the only way to make a practical wireless charger will be to use 
 more or less ordinary frequencies, and mechanically position the primary and 
 secondary coils as close as possible. This means either moving the car's 
 secondary coil or the charging station's primary coil so they touch.
 
 --
 Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
 --
 Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/controllers.htm now includes the GE EV-1

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Schaeffler sez 2speed-tranny improves EV-range/efficiency

2014-07-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

It does tickle me seeing such a luminary engineering setup like Bosch making
such a silly mistake after Tesla has 'been there, done that'. It may turn out
well for them but it seems a bit arrogant when you consider how much a success
Tesla has had after just 1/10 of the time all the big automakers have been
around for, and yet 'they know better'! Well, it'll be interesting to see if
it lasts or whether they'll go back to having a single speed transmission on
the end.

Of course, it could just be a cunning ploy to build some cash revenue onto
their EVs. After all, it'll need *some* maintenance! MW

On 21 Jul 2014, at 15:55, Bill Dube via EV wrote:

Remember that the early Teslas had a two-speed transmission that proved to be
a disaster. They cured the problems by simply removing the source of the
problem: The transmission.

If you install proper motor cooling and controller cooling, and perhaps
upgrade the motor or controller, then the desire/need for a transmission
naturally goes away.

There is really never a need for a transmission in a well-designed EV. It
adds complexity, cost, and inefficiency.

It is a red flag to investors when a start-up EV company proposes using a
transmission. It shows they have not really done the modeling correctly, or
they have installed a mismatched drive system and are trying to fix it with
a transmission.

Bill D.

On 7/21/2014 7:44 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

Bosch sez Gear changes will soon be part of EVs

http://ecomento.com/2014/07/14/prototype-golf-proves-gears-make-electric-cars-go-further/
Prototype Golf proves gears make electric cars go further
July 14, 2014 – Stephen Edelstein

[image
http://cdn.ecomento.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/step2-electric-golf.jpg
]

Thanks to their instantaneous torque delivery most electric cars get along
with a single forward gear. BMW, Nissan, and Tesla all employ this strategy,
yet German automotive supplier Schaeffler thinks more is better.

The company entered its STEP2 prototype in the fifth Silvretta E-Rally in
Montafon, Austria, to test a new two-speed transmission that it believes can
improve the efficiency of electric cars.

Schaeffler stripped the internal combustion powertrain from a Volkswagen
Golf, adding a complete electric powertrain and the novel transmission,
which features a low gear for traction and a high gear for higher-speed
cruising.

The company says the STEP2 has already achieved an efficiency improvement of
around six percent over a comparable electric car in simulations and tests.
That’s six percent more energy that can go towards increased range.

Internal combustion-engined cars need a spread of gears to match road speed
with engine speed, but since electric cars produce all of their power no
matter what speed the engine is turning, multiple gears have largely been
viewed as unnecessary.

Schaeffler believes an additional gear will allow the motor to work less
hard to propel the car at a given speed, improving efficiency. It’s like a
riding a bicycle: a gear that works well for sustained speeds might require
more effort from the rider when starting out.

That makes for a tired cyclist, but also a less-efficient electric car. The
harder the motor has to work, the more electricity is required to keep the
car moving.

The STEP2 doesn’t exactly put an abundance of power at the driver’s
disposal. Its output is just 50 kilowatts (67hp) in continuous operation, or
70 kW (93.8hp) at peak.

The Silvretta E-Rally is the perfect place to test this setup. Unlike
conventional road rallies, where the object is to complete a set of stages
in the shortest elapsed time, victory in the E-Rally goes to the team that
finishes with the least amount of energy used.
[© ecomento.com]

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2014/7/14/gear-changes-will-soon-be-part-of-evs-says-bosch/52966/
Gear changes will soon be part of EVs, says Bosch
14/07/2014

Transmission technology will soon find its place in electric vehicles (EVs),
just as it has in petrol and diesel vehicles, according to Bosch.

Electric motors have no difficulty in running up to 20,000 revolutions per
minute (rpm) – compared to petrol or diesel engines, which usually only run
up to a maximum speed of around 9,000 rpm – and so can run in a single gear,
without the need for a transmission.

To think of transmission and electrification as opposites is a
misconception. Whether you're talking about an electric drive or a petrol or
diesel engine, the right transmission will make any engine more efficient.

As electric vehicles become more popular, motorists are being introduced to
automatic vehicles that do not use traditional transmission.

Most electric vehicles effectively operate in one gear without any need to
change up or down – with reverse and neutral as the only options.

Bosch believes that changing gears will soon be part of the electric
vehicle.

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-21 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

You might be able to even make it automatically adjust the focus to slightly 
off-centre alignment, thereby making parking easier and the whole she-bang more 
efficient.  And maybe focus vertically as well as laterally/longitudinally?  MW


On 20 Jul 2014, at 19:54, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

 Another thought,  Peter.  Is it possible to use multiple coils to focus the 
 beam?  I don't know wave theory but I believe directional radio 
 transmitters work by having two or more antenae.  Can something similar be 
 done with inductive coils?
 
 If so, then using some sort of directional recognizer, the transmitter could 
 focus the beam exactly to the receiver area.  I'm hoping this would reduce 
 risk of exposure when humans, animals are in the vicinity and also improve 
 efficiency.
 
 Peri
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 To: Martin WINLOW m...@winlow.co.uk; Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
 ev@lists.evdl.org
 Sent: 20-Jul-14 11:37:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive 
 EVSE for i3 EV
 
 From: Martin WINLOW
 Not wanting to shoot your work down but I am reminded of (I think it was) 
 Lee's idea of using
 an auto engaging charger connection which would be much more efficient, 
 much cheaper and only
 marginally less practical.
 
 It was actually Bob Rice's solution (although the idea is no doubt even 
 older). In 1968, Bob had an EV with drive-on charging. It was a bump-stop 
 that you drove up against. A platform between the front wheels would slide 
 sideways to center itself between the front wheels. It had two brush 
 contacts on the top surface, that mated with contacts on the bottom of the 
 car. The contacts were dead until the car was present and electrical contact 
 was established. Simple as dirt!
 
 I know that people are often fascinated by complex solutions. Advertising 
 can often talk them into paying extraordinary prices for trivial 
 conveniences or hypothetical benefits. Companies like them because they can 
 make a lot of money selling them (especially if they can get laws passed to 
 make it a standard). But if you actually expect them to be widely used or 
 survive in the long run, I think we'd all be better served by working on 
 simpler ways of doing it.
 
 GM's Magnecharger comes to mind. A good idea, expensively implemented, 
 legislated as a standard, and now a footnote in history.
 
 On an 85 KHz high power inductive charger: As an EE, I can't see how the 
 charger can detect a 0.1% energy loss to some unexpected device in the area. 
 And yet, that's enough power to easily heat up unintended receivers and 
 fry sensitive electronics that by chance just happen to resonate at 85 KHz. 
 How can you reassure me that this won't happen?
 
 When I was designing safety-critical consumer electronics, we'd have someone 
 on the team whose *job* it was to try to break the system. If the guy was 
 good (and he needed to be) :-) he'd come up with things we never thought of 
 in our wildest dreams! So... with your inductive setup, what if you *tried* 
 to find a way to trick the electronics, and steal 5-10 watts of power from 
 the charger without tripping the safety shutdowns? If you can do it, then 
 Murphy will probably discover some mass-produced gadget that just happens to 
 do it.
 --
 A free whistle given away in millions of boxes of Captain Crunch cereal just 
 happened to be exactly the right frequency to turn off the phone company's 
 long-distance billing equipment, so kids could make free long-distance calls!
 --
 Lee Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/controllers.htm now includes the GE EV-1 
 controller
 
 --
 Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
 doing it. -- Chinese proverb
 --
 Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-21 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

It's not just convenience.  There is the issue of theft/vandalism of/to 
charging cords and the (small) danger to passers by posed by them ie the trip 
hazard.  They'll also wear out in time.  The inductive system removes all these 
problems.  MW


On 21 Jul 2014, at 05:08, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

 Me, too.  However, consumers might not care (unfortunately).  In other words, 
 you might pay 15% more to cover losses but compared to what?  Consumers will 
 be happy to just park and have the charge happen automatically.  Unless 
 energy costs are really high, they will get ignored.
 
 I'm with you, though.   When a simple direct connect is nearly 100% lossless, 
 and so easy to plug in, why would I want to be so wasteful?
 
 Peri
 
 -- Original Message --
 From: Al via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 
 
 My problem with the whole wireless charging dog and pony show is the lost 
 energy and the seemingly impossible efficiency claims.
 For instance, even if the high frequency transformer had NO air gap, there 
 would still be a limit to its efficiency.
 How efficient is a 60hz transformer? Is a higher frequency transformer any 
 more efficient?
 
 Al

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-20 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Peter,

Looks like you last post didn't work...

I'd be interested to know the answer to Lee's question, though in practical 
terms I can see the appeal of the road-based solution.  As far as that goes, is 
there talk of being able to lower the car coil or is it assumed it will be 
fixed?  If objects getting in the way is going to be a problem then I can see 
something will have to be done to prevent it - perhaps a deployable skirt to 
keep things out.  If you're going to do that, you might as well make the coil 
itself lowerable and get the bonus of more efficient and reliable power 
transfer.

Not wanting to shoot your work down but I am reminded of (I think it was) Lee's 
idea of using an auto engaging charger connection which would be much more 
efficient, much cheaper and only marginally less practical.  SOmething like the 
airborne re-fueling system is what I had in mind.  MW


On 20 Jul 2014, at 01:04, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-19 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

So, how much EMF from the transmitter 'escapes' the receiver in normal
operation? It is this, I think, anyone who has concerns about the technology is
effectively talking about. Whether any escaped energy can then cause problems
with other devices is another matter. MW

On 19 Jul 2014, at 16:14, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:

You are correct. We are requiring 2-way communication as well as monitoring
of the power being transmitted. If some metal does come near/into the field,
the transmitter can easily detect this (big change in current) and shut down
the transmission. Likewise if the communication fails, power transfer stops.
If the alignment between pads shifts (we call it alignment check) outside of
nominal values, power transfer stops. If a living object comes near
(basically to the side of the car), power transfer stops.

I've just spent an entire week working with the standard responsible for
this, so all of this is VERY fresh in my mind. :)

Cheers, Peter

On 7/18/14, 4:18 AM, Evan Tuer via EV wrote:
It's more than improbable. There is 2 way communication with any of these
wireless charging protocols, and monitoring of the power on both sides.
Any rogue coil (which would have to be inserted pretty much in between the
car and the charger whilst it is charging, which isn't going to happen
accidentally) would cause a mismatch and transfer would stop immediately.

Transfer won't start in the first place unless there's a correct, properly
aligned and communicating receiver.

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

Hmmm, my instant reaction was 'extremely unlikely' as you would need a
'receiver' circuit with the right resonant frequency to generate any sort
of significant energy. That said, it is, I suppose, quite feasible that
with the mass of coils of one sort or another that there are 'out there'
that some fluke of chance may just throw up a matching resonant situation
and then, who know's what could happen. It's a bit improbable though.
Certainly simple metal objects such as you mentioned will *not* be an issue.

On the other hand, interestingly, the power used by the flux generating
coils in a large, whole body MRI scanner is about the same as that which
this inductive charger will use, ~7kW. As I suspect you know, these MRIs
come with all sorts of dire warnings about keeping metal objects out of the
way lest they turn into lethal projectiles. Fortunately, the MRI coils are
designed to do something completely different to the inductive charger and
so this issue is unlikely to be important. Also, the fixed coils energy
will only be 'live' when a car is charging so, again, it is improbable that
with the car in the way, anything would be able to get into a position
where something unexpected would occur. It will be interesting to see how
this all pans out. MW

On 17 Jul 2014, at 13:30, robert winfield via EV wrote:

Wireless EV Charging on the Horizon, But is It Safe?

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/cables-needed-bmw-daimler-working-wireless-charging-technology-evs/
No cables needed: BMW and Daimler working on wireless
charging technology
for EVs
By Andrew Hard — July 11, 2014

[image
http://icdn2.digitaltrends.com/image/rsz_p90155654.jpg
Wireless Charging Technology
]

With the help of BMW and Daimler, electric vehicles are
taking the next step
toward worry-free ownership.

The German automakers recently announced a joint effort to
develop a
wireless charging system for the i3 electric vehicle and i8
plug-in hybrid.

EVs don’t need oil changes, filter replacements, or
emissions testing, so
they’re already extremely convenient to own. If the
inductive wireless
charging technology is viable, EV owners won’t even need
to worry about
refueling.

BMW and Daimler’s charging tech works in the same way
wireless cell phone
chargers do, just on a larger scale. An alternating magnetic
field transmits
energy between two sets of coils: one mounted onto the
car’s parking area
(usually a garage floor), and a secondary coil on the
vehicle itself.

The array transmits energy at a charging rate of 3.6
kilowatts, which,
according to BMW, is enough to fully charge an i8 in under
two hours. The
German engineers predict they can increase that rate to 7.0
kW in the
future.

The circular design of the coils comes in a compact,
lightweight package
that is equal parts subtle and slick. The floor-mounted
baseplate will
function even when exposed to rain and snow, and the car’s
receiver coil can
be activated with the push of a button.

To keep the neighborhood cats safe and grounded, the current
is
automatically shut off if any foreign bodies are detected.
BMW allows users
to monitor the charging process with the i Wallbox and
accompanying
smartphone app.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE for i3 EV

2014-07-18 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Hmmm, my instant reaction was 'extremely unlikely' as you would need a
'receiver' circuit with the right resonant frequency to generate any sort of
significant energy. That said, it is, I suppose, quite feasible that with the
mass of coils of one sort or another that there are 'out there' that some fluke
of chance may just throw up a matching resonant situation and then, who know's
what could happen. It's a bit improbable though. Certainly simple metal
objects such as you mentioned will *not* be an issue.

On the other hand, interestingly, the power used by the flux generating coils
in a large, whole body MRI scanner is about the same as that which this
inductive charger will use, ~7kW. As I suspect you know, these MRIs come with
all sorts of dire warnings about keeping metal objects out of the way lest they
turn into lethal projectiles. Fortunately, the MRI coils are designed to do
something completely different to the inductive charger and so this issue is
unlikely to be important. Also, the fixed coils energy will only be 'live'
when a car is charging so, again, it is improbable that with the car in the
way, anything would be able to get into a position where something unexpected
would occur. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out. MW

On 17 Jul 2014, at 13:30, robert winfield via EV wrote:

will it induce eddy currents in metallic jewelry or clasps or such in
clothing worn by occupants.
(My car warms me before we leave in the morning...)

On Thu, 7/17/14, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: BMWDaimler developing 3-Hour Wireless Inductive EVSE
for i3 EV
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2014, 4:58 AM

Wireless EV Charging on the Horizon, But is It Safe?

[image
http://icdn2.digitaltrends.com/image/rsz_p90155654.jpg
Wireless Charging Technology
]

With the help of BMW and Daimler, electric vehicles are
taking the next step
toward worry-free ownership.

The German automakers recently announced a joint effort to
develop a
wireless charging system for the i3 electric vehicle and i8
plug-in hybrid.

As always, BMW strives to be an innovator. In May, the
German company
announced a solar-powered carport that would allow i3 and i8
owners to
charge their vehicles easily and conveniently at home.

The i Solar Concept gathers energy from the sun and funnels
it into the
customer’s car. If the vehicle is charged, owners can
siphon excess power
into their residence. The carport is even made from green
materials like
bamboo and carbon fiber, making the energy source as
sustainable as the cars
themselves.
[© digitaltrends.com]

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Re: [EVDL] Controller page updates

2014-07-16 Thread Martin Winlow via EV

Works fine on my iphone 5s (Safari) - even the animations. Interesting write up 
 nice pictures, too. MW

MW

 On 15 Jul 2014, at 22:31, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 Hi gang,
 
 I've been adding content to the Sunrise EV website in an effort to make it 
 more useful. I just added documentation on the Henney Kilowatt rectactor 
 controller (the earliest solid-state controller that I know of).
 
 I'm no web designer, so I stick with simple HTML4 for everything to keep it 
 simple and small. I tried something new here, and am wondering if it works on 
 other people's computers.
 
 If you have a moment, go to http://www.sunrise-ev.com and about halfway down 
 the page under Recent Updates, click the Motor Controllers link. That 
 should take you to the controllers page. Halfway down that page is the Henney 
 schematic. It has a series of clickable links for off, start, slow, medium, 
 fast, etc. Clicking them should change the schematic to show the current 
 paths in red for each speed.
 
 If they work, great! If there's a problem, could you send me an email (off 
 list at leeah...@earthlink.net) so I can figure out what I'm doing wrong and 
 fix it? Thanks!
 -- 
 An engineer can do for a nickel what any damn fool can do for a dollar.
-- Henry Ford
 --
 Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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Re: [EVDL] FCEV's similar to Coal fired cars?

2014-07-12 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Sounds something like this company I've been following for a while...

http://www.sapphireenergy.com

... based in the US.  Their process uses algae to make 'crude oil' which can 
then be refined in the normal way to make diesel, petrol etc.  They have just 
announced a tie-up with the big Chinese oil company Sinopec.  MW



On 12 Jul 2014, at 06:41, Dennis Miles via EV wrote:

 FYI the person I was speaking to from S.Korea said they were producing the
 Methanol from fermentation of algae.
 
 Dennis Lee Miles (EVprofessor)
 
 
 
 
 On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Jan Steinman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 
 Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu wrote:
 
 But, our friends in South Korea use Methanol and not Natural gas  as the
 feedstock for the hydrogen.
 
 Methanol is typically synthesized via steam reformation of natgas. So
 hydrogen from methanol is just an intermediate step from natgas.
 
 It is possible to use biological processes to make methanol, but I don't
 believe it is widely done, as it would be very much more expensive than
 using natgas as a feedstock.
 
 

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Re: [EVDL] Question about amp-hr

2014-07-10 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Larry - You are right.  Amp-hours on its own doesn't really mean much at all.  
Except, of course, that most modern EVs have battery/traction packs in the 
~300V bracket and most batteries used in such vehicles have cell voltages in 
~3-4V range so, depending on the context, an Ah rating gives the casual 
observer some idea of the pack/cell energy content.  But it is not a terribly 
precise number/unit to bandy about!  kWh is best.  MW


On 9 Jul 2014, at 07:17, Larry Gales via EV wrote:

 I know that   watts = amps * volts,  and watt-hours (wh) is a measure of
 energy, but over and over again I hear people talking about EV batteries in
 terms of amp-hours.  What does that mean if you don't know the voltage?
 1000 amp-hr is not impressive if the voltage is, say, 0.1 volts.  Is
 there some sort of standard voltage, e.g., 3.6 volts, that is assumed when
 one talks about LiON batteries?  Does amp-hours tell you something more
 than watt-hours?
 
 Thanks in advance,--
 Larry Gales
 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 500e's well-deserved kudos, best low-co$t EV ever driven ...

2014-07-04 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Well, reading his Wiki entry, he is clearly not stupid.  I can only assume he 
fervently believes that transitioning an ICE-based business to electric will 
ruin the company he has worked so hard to turn around over the last 5 years or 
so.  As well as having a law degree e is also an accountant so it may just be 
that he can't see the profit in it and therefore thinks there's no point in it. 
 The (apparent) fact that he is a chain smoker might help explain his 
mindset...?  It might also mean that someone with a broader frame of mind might 
be is his shoes before too long!

I wonder if he's ever driven one?

MW


On 3 Jul 2014, at 10:02, rustybkts via EV wrote:

 Why is it that Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne seems to go on so much
 about how much he is losing from each 500e when it gets so much praise?
 I remember not so long ago that all new ICE models used to be advertised
 with a statement noting the hundreds of millions spent developing it.
 
 I doubt the 500e needed too much spending to create it and I cannot believe
 that the extra cell pack, motor, gearbox and charger etc would cost too much
 more than the EV sell price and certainly not $14.000 more for each one
 unless he is rolling the development costs into each one.
 
 Try selling them into all the other markets Mr Marchionne and reap the
 benefits of quantity savings that as a manufacturer he knows very well.
 
 Its funny isn't it that some CEO's see the future and others are hooked on
 oil.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Owner Sez ‘Yes’ You Can Tow With a Tesla-S EV! (video)

2014-07-01 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Vehicle mods in Europe are generally very much frowned upon. Trying to convert
an ICE to an EV, for example, is nigh-on impossible if intended for the public
road. In the UK, however, things are a lot more relaxed. My local vehicle
inspection office hardly raised an eyebrow when I took my converted EV van in
there for them to check the VIN (chassis) and engine/motor numbers. Even the
CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) are getting less hung-up having just allowed the
building and use of single seat 'experimental' aircraft in the UK with no
regulation (of the aircraft, at least). MW

On 30 Jun 2014, at 15:41, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

I think that Willie (on this list) has been towing a trailer with his Tesla
Model S for some time. I read his postings on some of the trips. I think it
was late last year.

I find the differences between the U.S. and Europe kind of amusing. I had an
email discussion about my conversion with someone from Europe. He was asking
what approvals I had to get on the design. I explained that in my state, you
could do anything you wanted with your car unless it is specifically illegal.
He was shocked.

Mike

On June 30, 2014 2:20:09 AM MDT, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

'May be illegal if your area doesn't allow towing using your EV'

http://transportevolved.com/2014/06/24/can-tow-tesla-model-s-one-owner-answers-emphatic-yes/
Can You Tow With a Tesla Model S? One Owner Answers With an Emphatic
‘Yes’
June 24, 2014 By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

[images
http://media.transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-24-at-15.11.52.png
Towing with a Tesla Model S? No problem! (Screenshot via YouTube)

http://media.transportevolved.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Screen-Shot-2014-06-24-at-15.14.20.png
The Torklift Central Model S EcoHitch adds a tow hitch to your Model S.

http://img.youtube.com/vi/7QM1o_0nyqQ/maxresdefault.jpg

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Re: [EVDL] $1.7 Trillion reinvested

2014-06-27 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

$5/W sounds hideously expensive.  It's nearer $2.6/W installed here in the UK!

But as far as your analysis goes, you haven't factored in the money that 
hundreds of companies that supply the armed services have made out of the war.  
That means jobs which keeps the politicians in power and everyone's a winner... 
except for all those who are killed, wounded, displaced etc etc.

Of course, you could still have lots of jobs but in the renewable energy sector 
instead but try telling that to your average politician or gargantuan ICE SUV 
driver!

MW


On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:32, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:

 The purported cost of the Iraqi War so far has been $1.7 trillion (1.7 x 
 10^12).Whether this is war was worth it is **not** up for discussion here. 
 This is strictly an exercise in examining what effect those funds would have 
 had if applied differently. I would appreciate your vetting the thoughts and 
 numbers below.
 
 The question is: What if those funds had been used for installing solar 
 panels for recharging a fleet of electric vehicles? What does a “back of the 
 envelope” set of calculations indicate as to whether such an investment would 
 be viable and possibly pursued further?
 
 Assume for discussion purposes:
 
 1)Each panel is rated at 250 watts. (Ref: 
 http://www.suncityenergy.com/solarpanelratings/) This is in a common size 
 (+/- a few watts).The rating assumes a standard irradiance of 1,000 whr /m^2.
 
 2)Each panel costs $1250 installed which is $5/watt for a commercially 
 installed panel. Some will self install and some will have a higher 
 commercially installed array.
 
 3)Each panel receives an average of 2 kwhr/m^2/day.This is doable in almost 
 all parts of the lower 48 States and Hawaii in December, the worse month for 
 solar over all.The Puget Sound - Portland (OR) and Alaska areas are the two 
 exceptions.Most areas referenced below are well above 2 kwhr/m^2/day; some 
 with a factor of 3 or greater.
 
 (Ref: http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas)
 
 4)How far will an electric vehicle go using 1 kwhr of electricity.?
 
 ·Pickups can travel roughly 2 to 3 miles.
 
 ·Sedans can travel roughly 3 to 5 miles.
 
 ·A Tesla Model S with an EPA rated range of 265 miles with a 85 kwhr pack 
 onboard produces a calculated average about 3 miles per kwhr.
 
 ·A range of 3 miles per kwhr was used below as an average
 
 To derive the amount of mileage that can be driven in a day electrically, the 
 above panels and factors were multiplied together like so:
 
 _$1.7 x 10^12 _* _250w panel_ * _1 kw _* 1 hr * _2 kwhr sol m^2/day_ * _3 mi_
 
 $1250 panel10^3w 1 kwhr std m^2/daykwhr
 
 This produces a result of 2.04 billion miles.
 
 How does this equate to miles driven per day using an equivalent gasoline 
 powered sedan?
 
 Assume for discussion purposes:
 
 1)The USA uses 20 million Barrels of Oil Per Day (BOPD).In recent years, this 
 figure has decreased to about 18 million BOPD.
 
 2)Each barrel of oil can be refined to produce 18 gallons of gasoline.This is 
 close to the actual production figure.
 
 To derive the amount of average car miles that can be driven in a day using 
 gasoline, the above factors were multiplied together like so:
 
 20 million BOPD * 18 gallons of gasoline/BOPD * 20 Miles/Gallon = 7.2 billion 
 miles/day
 
 We drive roughly 7.200 billion miles per day.
 
 21 million BOPD over 7.2 billion miles driven per day produces a rough factor 
 of 3 (x10^-3).If we multiply 2.04 billion electric only miles driven times 
 this factor, we would equate this to using about 6 million BOPD.This is 
 roughly the amount of our oil imports.
 
 While a $1.7 trillion dollar investment in solar panels will not be a 
 substitute for all the oil we use, it would likely reduce our energy 
 consumption by 6 million BOPD; enough for us to be ‘energy independent’ with 
 maybe a little conservation added.
 
 How long would it take to pay this investment off?
 
 If electricity, through net metering, is $1.00 per 10 kwhr and gasoline is $4 
 per gallon, and a vehicle can be driven the same amount of miles on either 10 
 kwhr of electricity or 1 gallon of gasoline, the difference is $3.00 which 
 would be allocated to paying off the $1.7 trillion dollar investment.
 
 We use 360 million gallons of gasoline a day, (20 million BOPD * 18 
 gallons/Barrel).$1.7 x 10^12/(0.360 gallons x 10^9 * 3) = 1.574 x 10^3 days 
 or 4.31 years.Not too shabby.
 
 This is a very simplistic scenario where a lot of details and other costs 
 that have to be worked out such as the cost of a pack; electrical storage, 
 production, and transmission issues; (in)efficiency issues; weather related 
 issues (the sun does not always shine); and utility regulatory/business 
 issues.The bottom line is that this looks like it is doable financially with 
 potentially solvable issues.
 
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Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen/EV thoughts (relax)

2014-06-27 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

But in the long run, when all the oil is gone, we will still need the density 
of chemical fuel for the long-haul interstate travel.  And
Hydrogen is one technology worth looking at. I disagree.  The only reason we 
could not power all our transportation needs from electricity is when you are 
operating somewhere that has none and it is not practical to provide it - ie in 
the middle of no-where and on a short timescale (ie no time to install PV or 
whatever).  For that, bio-fuels would work perfectly well and you could use 
ordinary ICE vehicles with it so no need to spend (yet more) countless billions 
developing FCVs and their equally insanely expensive infrastructure.

I'm sure you are saying What about those long distance trucks?.  Well, aside 
from the obvious fact that most of this sort of transport should be on trains 
(preferably electric ones) there is no technical reason why trucks couldn't be 
EVs too and definitely not so if major highways were equipped with inductive 
power transfer technology.  This is simple to install and compared to what they 
are talking about spending on an H2 refuelling infrastructure, cheap as chips 
(fries)!

MW


On 26 Jun 2014, at 15:32, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

 Folks,
 
 EV's and Hydorgen fuel cell cars are NOT in competition.  (except in
 Toyota's fantasy dreams)..  There is no need to get worked up.
 
 EV's are far, far better for local travel and daily commuting (80% of our
 miles).  But in the long run, when all the oil is gone, we will still need
 the density of chemical fuel for the long-haul interstate travel.  And
 Hydrogen is one technology worth looking at.
 
 As everyone points out, Hydrogen makes no sense compared to an EV in *all*
 aspects for what EV's do best.  But we need to continue to explore it for
 when HYDROGEN might become a byproduct of daily peak grid excess renewable
 energy capture (no matter how inefficient).
 
 EVs and FCV's are completely different applications.  And only the media
 and others who think anything with 4 wheels and a GO pedal should do
 everything-for-everyone sees them as both very limited and the same...
 
 Bob
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Martin WINLOW via
 EV
 Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 5:25 AM
 To: Mark Abramowitz; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen/EV thoughts
 
 Mark,
 
 Please stop wittering on and actually address some of the points the anti
 H2 FCV commentators have made here.
 
 Principally, please explain how you believe H2 FCVs will work in terms of
 efficiency Vs (real ie plug-in) EVs?
 
 MW

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Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen/EV thoughts

2014-06-26 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Mark,

Please stop wittering on and actually address some of the points the anti H2 
FCV commentators have made here.

Principally, please explain how you believe H2 FCVs will work in terms of 
efficiency Vs (real ie plug-in) EVs?

MW


On 26 Jun 2014, at 01:52, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

 There are a number of you that think that this is a technology food fight. 
 It's not. Any food fight is one way, and fortunately you're just shouting 
 into your own echo chamber.
 
 That's a good thing, because despite the ignorance being espoused (much like 
 I hear from the climate change deniers), we are in trouble unless fuel cells 
 are successful. It is just not feasible to meet clean air requirements with 
 just battery electrics. Sorry, but it's true. Anyone with any air quality 
 planning competence will tell you that. And even with fuel cells, there still 
 exists a major challenge.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 25, 2014, at 5:26 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org 
 wrote:
 
 Mark,
 Are the laws of Physics different in California?
 It is simply be design and following science that tells us that
 Hydrogen powered cars will never be cost-effective.
 Of course, a state can set up a grande grant-scheme and create
 an artificially unbalanced market that will collapse as soon as
 the money runs out or voters get fed up with the money being
 poured into a fallacy that is not sustainable.
 EVs have proven to be sustainable and efficient, they are 
 subsidized via tax breaks to sweeten the deal and ramp up
 the market faster. But the Physics of a BEV tells us that it is
 efficient and effective. Limited, maybe but good enough for
 about 95% of most people's trips.
 
 The situation is quite different for FCV and that is why even
 organizations that promote Fuel Cell development have pulled out of
 the unsustainable Hydrogen Fuel Cell development. (Except those that
 are more interested in grants than in practical applications and
 progress)
 We will see where Toyota lands, time will tell.
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
 Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
 Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz
 via EV
 Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 5:17 PM
 To: Peter Eckhoff; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen/EV thoughts
 
 Sorry, finger slipped before I was done.
 
 **
 
 Sounds like a very old analysis.
 
 Toyota will be selling their cars in California, which should be your
 first clue. BEV have had (and still do) their own challenges, too. But
 it's just not productive to focus on those as have all the negative
 Nellies for decades. I've heard over 30 years of can't, can't, can't
 about electric drive vehicles of all types. 
 
 In the 80's, the agencies were saying that, too. They also said can't,
 can't, can't about cleaning up the air any further. So they got sued in
 federal court by a private citizen, who, to make a long story short,
 won. 
 
 The air was supposed to get better until the early 90's, and then get
 worse due to growth. Check out the timing of clean air progress since
 the 80's, and also look at when the ZEV mandate was originally adopted.
 
 So, do you want some cheese to go with your w(h)ine?
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 25, 2014, at 3:48 PM, Peter Eckhoff via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:
 
 AC Propulsion had a Power Point slide where they compared the
 efficiency of various fuels.  Their standard was an EV with the
 equivalent of 50 MPG.  A similar vehicle, powered by hydrogen produced
 from reformatted natural gas and fed into a fuel cell, was the
 equivalent of 30 mpg while hydrogen produced by electrolysis was the
 equivalent of 12 mpg.
 
 There a number of technical problems with fuel cells:
 1) A fuel cell life expectancy was about 2,000 hours.  Since my
 average driving speed is 30 mpg, I would have to replace my fuel cell
 every 60K miles.  Therefore, a different fuel cell construction
 technique would have to be used.
 2) A pack of battery or electrolytic capacitors or an ICE was needed
 to aid in acceleration.  Therefore, a faster way of transferring the
 proton through the electrolyte is needed.  Think of a proton as a
 person needed to run through air as opposed through water or molasses.
 3) The storage of hydrogen to go 300 miles in a Toyota Camry needed 3
 specially carbon wound tanks where the internal pressures reached 700
 bar.  A bar is 14.7 pounds per square inch.  This equates to 5 tons per
 square inch in a 2 ton vehicle.  Catastrophic failures would be
 catastrophic.  The hydrogen, therefore, needs to be stored in a
 molecular sponge where the hydrogen freely flows in and out of storage
 without much energy inducements.  One real scheme required 800 degree
 Fahrenheit temperatures to release the hydrogen from storage.
 
 Given

Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen/EV thoughts

2014-06-25 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Surely there is a more efficient way of storing excess electric power than
this?! Even pumping water up into reservoirs and then dropping again through
turbines (like the UK national grid does in wales
http://www.fhc.co.uk/ffestiniog.htm ) must be more efficient? Wont work very
well in the Great Plains but most other places should have some hilly bits. MW

On 25 Jun 2014, at 15:36, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

Generally, Hydrogen for transportation (no infrastructure) makes little
sense compared to EV’s (everyone has an outlet in their garage). The
business model for hydrogen cars is very weak (though it is needed for
trucks and road warriors).

BUT!

There is a future for hydrogen in utility scale applications for the
eventual Bazgigawatts of periodic solar and wind excess into electrolysis
of water to hydrogen. Think of it as energy storage (the holy grail of
renewables).

But then creating a HUGE infrastructure from zero to distribute this
hydrogen source in tiny little buckets to burn everywhere in tiny amounts
in millions of cars makes no sense, when the utilities can far, far more
easily burn it right there at their plants to provide a continuum of
electricity at night and/or low wind.

Another way to look at it is to have the utilities burn the excess hydrogen
to make electricity and use the grid to distribute that electricity to
EV’s. That is a far easier way to distribute “hydrogen stored energy”
since EV’s and the grid distribution already exist everywhere.

Of course, there will always be a market for SOME hydrogen fueled cars and
trucks that must do long trips or continuous road travel. No question.
But that is something like only 10% or our transportation energy… and easy
to implement along the interstates…

P.S. There is another thing I just became aware of. Other countries
versus the US with respect to Energy Storage.. Not everything is equal.
Germany has a different perspective on storage (hydrogen) for many
reasons… they have no natural gas like we do. They cannot use natural
gas plants to make-up solar/wind shortages. Where we view “storage” as a
short-term (max 12 hour overnight) need, they view storage as a long-term
requirement and not just for backup electricity, but for weeks or months…

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2014/06/energy-storage-a-different-view-from-germany?cmpid=SolarNL-Tuesday-June24-2014

Just some thoughts.

Bob, WB4aPR
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chicago quilter plugs-into her new Focus-EV cutie ...

2014-06-13 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Spot on, Robert.  MW


On 12 Jun 2014, at 15:28, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

 My 2 cents.
 
 Anyone who buys an EV with the idea of routine public charging does not
 understand the value promise of an EV.  Why hassle with public charging
 stations when the whole idea of abandoning gas was to avoid public gas
 stations???  She says herself that she does not drive much.  And a full days
 travel is within a single charge.  Yet she wont plug in at home because it
 takes too long ?  Surely she has to sleep.
 
 All this focus on public charging when the typical American car spends 21
 hours a day parked (mostly at home or at work) provides more than 80 miles
 of daily charging opportunity just plugging into a 120v outlet (at home or
 at work)...  Since she visits the same friends, just bring along an
 extension cord to reach her outlet and bring along a cup of coffee or 50
 cents to pay for the electricity.
 
 We have to educate people (not the 1% that drive EV's) but the other 99% who
 have OUTLETS that the average US cost to charge and EV from a 120v outlet is
 about 15 cents an hour (10c/kWh electricity).  Sooner or later everyone will
 have an EV friend that comes to visit and would benefit from a charge.
 
 Bob, WB4aPR
 

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[EVDL] Elon on BBC

2014-06-08 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Elon being interviewed in London at his inimitable best...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27741041

It does look odd seeing a Model S bearing a UK registration plate.  The first 
of many, I hope!
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[EVDL] More UK Media Model S Coverage - This Time From the Gruniad

2014-06-08 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/07/electric-car-tesla-motor-roadster-electric-sports-car
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[EVDL] Even More UK Media Model S Coverage - The Independent

2014-06-08 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/07/electric-car-tesla-motor-roadster-electric-sports-car
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[EVDL] 'Tesla Motors accused of bullying to grab key car charging sites in the UK' (courtesy The Gruniad via EVWorld)

2014-05-31 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/22/tesla-uk-utility-electric-car-charging-stations


Comments now closed, sadly.

Sounds like a load of tosh by Ecotricity and certainly doesn't square with what 
the government have said they plan to have in place by the end of 2014.  MW
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 19, Issue 39 - OTT

2014-05-30 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

So, not content with 100 years of greed-fueled destruction of the earths 
atmosphere through the squandering of a very finite resource, just when 
progress is being made to progress Humanity down a more responsible road to a 
cleaner and more sustainable future for us and and the Earth in general, Big 
Oil comes along and says No!  You don't want to do it like that!  Lets do the 
same thing all over again and cause earthquakes, rising sea levels, 
destruction of ground water systems and an even more poisonous atmosphere.  
Sounds like the plot from '2012'.  

And... I think I just outed myself publicly as an official tree-hugger.  MW


On 28 May 2014, at 20:23, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

 So - NC will experience increasing earthquake activity (other regions
 are living this already) and contamination of groundwater sources
 (people can no longer use the wells that they have been drinking from
 for decades),
 in addition to a rise of fuel prices - that Martin hinted at.
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
 Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
 Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross
 via EV
 Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:51 AM
 To: Martin WINLOW; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 19, Issue 39 - OTT
 
 I live in North Carolina - they are getting ready to frack in very
 uncertain geology here. That is what will happen next.
 
 
 On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:13 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.orgwrote:
 
 A Financial Times article a couple of weeks back was saying that $1T
 of
 recent investment in shale oil and gas extraction will never se a
 profit -
 due to too low oil and gas prices.  Guess what's going to happen next?
 MW
 
 
 On 27 May 2014, at 07:02, Jan Steinman via EV wrote:
 
 From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com]
 
 Can we really disregard the energy cost of all those other items
 making
 up the totla cost?
 
 No! It's a totally essential concept!
 
 I think the Hummer versus Prius example was probably contrived and
 skewed, but the concept of energy cost accounting is something we
 don't do
 enough of these days.
 
 For example, some energy cost analysis indicates that some shale oil
 costs as much as $120/barrel to produce, although the market rate is
 only
 $100/barrel. Some studies even suggest that some shale oil well use
 more
 energy than they will ever produce.
 
 For more info, look into emergy, a concept rigorously developed by
 Howard (HT) Odum.
 
  The more the work is left to nature, the greater the net yield
 but
 the longer the time required... Thus sometimes the most apparently
 productive and high-yielding sources of energy involve a lot of
 activity
 for little return, while long-term investments, especially in
 naturally
 grown forests, provide the greatest value for future generations. --
 David
 Holmgren
  Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 
 
 
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 -- 
 Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
 happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
 *Dalai Lama *
 
 Tell me what it is you plan to do
 With your one wild and precious life?
 Mary Oliver, The summer day.
 
 To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
 Thomas A.
 Edisonhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html
 
 A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
 *Warren Buffet*
 
 Michael E. Ross
 (919) 550-2430 Land
 (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google
 Phone
 (919) 631-1451 Cell
 (919) 513-0418 Desk
 
 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 19, Issue 39 - OTT

2014-05-28 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

A Financial Times article a couple of weeks back was saying that $1T of recent 
investment in shale oil and gas extraction will never se a profit - due to too 
low oil and gas prices.  Guess what's going to happen next?  MW


On 27 May 2014, at 07:02, Jan Steinman via EV wrote:

 From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com]
 
 Can we really disregard the energy cost of all those other items making
 up the totla cost?
 
 No! It's a totally essential concept!
 
 I think the Hummer versus Prius example was probably contrived and skewed, 
 but the concept of energy cost accounting is something we don't do enough of 
 these days.
 
 For example, some energy cost analysis indicates that some shale oil costs as 
 much as $120/barrel to produce, although the market rate is only $100/barrel. 
 Some studies even suggest that some shale oil well use more energy than they 
 will ever produce.
 
 For more info, look into emergy, a concept rigorously developed by Howard 
 (HT) Odum.
 
  The more the work is left to nature, the greater the net yield but the 
 longer the time required... Thus sometimes the most apparently productive and 
 high-yielding sources of energy involve a lot of activity for little return, 
 while long-term investments, especially in naturally grown forests, provide 
 the greatest value for future generations. -- David Holmgren
  Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 
 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Their CEO sez Don't buy the Fiat 500e EV

2014-05-25 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Sure, but what is crazy about this situation is that people *want* to buy the 
blessed thing, the reviews are all very good and the engineering faultless 
(apparently) and here is this chap Sergio Marchionne saying basically that he 
can't be bothered to work out a way to make money selling the 500e because its 
hurting his sales of ICEVs!  It really does sum up everything that has gone 
wrong with the auto industry in the last 20 years.  How the team who put the 
car together must feel about his comments I dread to think - probably all 
looking for a job a Tesla.  What a complete idiot.  MW


On 25 May 2014, at 04:28, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

 My point is, and I am able to evaluate this having had a fairly close
 vantage point, no car can be made profitable without sufficient volume.
 And it is very easy to make a car that has almost no profit associated
 with it - ask GM.
 
 This is a compliance car - that means it is not going to carry its weight.
 You can call that stuff sunk cost, but it has its encumbrance on profits;
 the accounting facts are time shifted is all, it is foolish to discount
 them.
 
 If you want to look at past RD as sunk cost fine - then the 500e has to
 carry the current RD for the next models in the pipeline.  I doubt that it
 will, if they don't make the effort to crank up the volume.  I ask you then
 - where does the money for current RD come from.
 
 I have no interest in enticing you to defend what was probably a throwaway
 comment.  Sorry, I brought up an contrary view.
 
 
 
 
 On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 10:35 PM, Ben Apollonio via EV 
 ev@lists.evdl.orgwrote:
 
 I think you're missing my point.  I understand it's not free.  But if you
 were to apply Fiat's accounting to other situations, nobody should ever
 launch a new product or start a company because it's guaranteed to sell at
 a loss for the first few months/years after it hits production, regardless
 of how good the margins are otherwise.  Now, you may say Fiat will never
 sell enough 500e's to recoup their investment, which may very well be true,
 but grousing by the CEO about how he hopes people won't buy the car isn't
 going to help.
 
 Said another way:  once you've already sunk the RD cost, you don't factor
 that past expense it into whether or not it's profitable to continue making
 and selling the product you've already designed/tooled/etc.
 
 -Ben
 
 On May 24, 2014, at 6:35 PM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 So where does the money for NRE and RD come from?
 

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Re: [EVDL] Solar roadways.

2014-05-25 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

From the video and web page, the surface *is* the solar cell - attached to a 
solid concrete cellular base by 2 or more bolts.  So repair would be very 
simple and very quick - remove damaged, 'cells' bolt in new ones.  The PV and 
electronics might even be salvageable for re-use in a new cell.

This won't affect the issue of damaged or poorly installed hardcore (or 
whatever) bed.  MW


On 25 May 2014, at 11:12, Willie2 via EV wrote:

 On 05/24/2014 09:48 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
 I think the reasoning is silicon is cheaper than petrochemicals.  I 
 particularly like the idea of programmable and sensing roadways.  Reminds me 
 of the world of Minority Report.  Lawrence Rhodes
 
 An idea worthy of study.  I would like to see a few miles built to test.   
 However, there is a LOT more to a road structure than the surface.  The glass 
 surface could replace only a tiny fraction of the petroleum, portland cement, 
 lime, etc that goes into making a road suitable for heavy traffic.  Most road 
 failures begin with failure far below the surface.  Having a very durable 
 surface will not prevent road failure.  As Lee notes, a PV surface would 
 greatly complicate inevitable road repair.
 ___

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Re: [EVDL] How I learned to stop worrying and love autonomous-driving wireless-charging

2014-05-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Folks can rail against autonomous vehicles (AVs) all they want but come 2050
most vehicles on the road will be AVs. This doesn't mean that those of us who
enjoy going for a blast won't be able to but for everyone else who just wants
to get from A to B safely, efficiently (in both time and resources) and be able
to use the traveling time for doing something other than getting tired and
fractious having to concentrate on driving, it'll be a Godsend.

As for H2 FCVs -for anything but a very small section of the market, it is a
totally unworkable and completely insane idea - but Big Oil and their political
allies will still try to force it down our throats. The UK government are
still committed to spending millions on it. Hopefully the advances in and
take-up of EVs will seal FCVs fate before they ever get off the ground. You
can read about HMG's plans for FCVs (and other Ultra Low Emission Vehicles EVs
etc) here...
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/307019/ulev-2015-2020.pdf

On 21 May 2014, at 10:16, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

IMO ...

Since lately I have so much time on my hands (waiting in hospital waiting
rooms to be seen), and the newswires with less EV and more h2 items than in
the past, it makes me think of the strengths and weaknesses of each vehicle,
but boiled down to a non-technical level (what the common person feels who
has not-a-clue of all the technical pros and cons of either).

We have all seen how the automakers are touting the semi-autonomous modes
the new vehicles now have (self parking, sleep alert, etc.), like it is
preview to what I have occasionally posted of the vehicles having full
autonomous abilities:

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Renault-Hints-at-2016-Autonomous-Leaf-EV-tp4668014.html
EVLN: Renault Hints at 2016 Autonomous Leaf EV
Feb 18, 2014

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/the-87-billion-robot-car-industrial-complex/371242/
The $87 Billion Robot-Car Market
Self-driving cars might be almost 10 percent of the automotive market in a
decade and a half.
May 20 2014

Some evdl members have posted their dislike/disdain for an autonomous
driving mode, like it is the end of driving as we know it. However, there
could be a benefit that would help sell plugins.

Lets also look (simplistically) at how energy is put back in either a plugin
or a h2 fcv. Currently both require a human. The fcv needs a human to
connect the high pressure hose that would pump the chemical-energy into the
fcv. And one of the ways to recharge a plugin is to have a human plug-in the
electrical connection to transfer the power back into the pack.

But a plugin can also have the option to use wireless/inductive recharging.
From what I recall, this has developed to a 5kw level for both home and
public use:

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/USU-5kW-90-efficient-10-inch-air-gap-wireless-power-transfer-td354.html
USU 5kW 90% efficient 10-inch air gap wireless power transfer
Jul 13, 2011
...
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=arnumber=6342812url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D6342812

The 5kw level-2 charging would be good enough to recharge 100 mile EVs that
charge during the shorter time window off-peak hours utilities offer a
discount on.

I foresee EVs getting to a point to where the driver could get out, the
plugin would park itself, and do its own wireless recharging at the assigned
time (all automatic, the driver does not have to think).

fcvs do not have this non-human/hands-free option. Thus, this would be a
selling point for higher end plugins (it does it all be itself, I do not
have-to-remember to plug-it-in, etc.).

While a few automakers have thrown against EVs by backing fcvs (with $upport
from Oil companies that would chemical-fuel them), fcvs have no hands-free
refueling solution.

Chock one up for plugins over fcvs ...

{brucedp.150m.com}

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Re: [EVDL] Speaking of General Jack Ripper (and thereby 'How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Bomb')

2014-05-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

I hate to say it but I think this is going to become quite a common issue.  All 
the more reason to buy an EV that has an ICEV sister.  If things get really 
silly (and it would only take another oil price spike to bring out all the 
psychopaths from under their stones) you can just remove the 'EV' signs off 
your car - even replace them with ICEV ones.  Unfortunately, it isn't going to 
stop people damaging your car whilst it is charging - and that has already 
started, too.

Depresssingly yours, Martin Winlow.


On 21 May 2014, at 15:02, Geoff Pullinger via EV wrote:

 Has there been some news story I've missed in the last few weeks?  Perhaps
 something about how EV's are destroying the purity of our bodily fluids?  I
 only ask this because during the last few weeks I've had three instances
 where other motorists have harassed me while I was driving my EV.  One guy
 in a parking lot drove his pickup straight at me while I was getting into
 my car and then turned away missing me by about a foot.  The other two
 incidents involved people driving on my bumper even though I was going five
 mph over the limit. This has never happened to me before.  My car has EV
 plates and a small sign on the back that says 'electric'.
 
 -- 
 Geoff Pullinger

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Toyota Drops RAV4-EV-gen2, shifting to h2

2014-05-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV


On 21 May 2014, at 17:41, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

 See below for a brief reply.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On May 21, 2014, at 3:58 AM, Chris Tromley via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 Without wanting to get into a detailed FCV discussion here, I'm puzzled.
 
 1.  Last I heard a practical FCV was not possible until some Brand New
 Stuff was invented, and no one knew if/how/when that would happen.
 
 What time period was this? If recently, you should consider that the source 
 was ill-informed.

Mark - if you seriously think that practical includes a price of over $100k 
for a family sized saloon with limited range that you can only fill up at half 
a dozen locations in the whole of continental USA, then you do yourself a 
disservice.

 
 
 2.  Last I heard there was no way to create H2 that was anywhere near as
 efficient as just filling a battery with the same energy.
 
 Not sure why you want to compare efficiency of filling a battery to anything.

*Because* (real) EVs are here and available *now* as is 95% of the recharging 
infrastructure (ie people's homes) and as such EVs are the only realistic 
alternative to the ICEV!

 
 
 3.  Last I heard FCV fueling infrastructure was wildly more expensive than
 EV fueling infrastructure.
 
 I don't know the cost of EV fueling infrastructure or how best to compare 
 (cost per car per day of infrastructure?), but H2fueling infrastructure is 
 mostly very expensive. These have been built as one-off stations. The most 
 recent bids to CEC show costs coming down, and people thinking in terms of 
 multiple stations to further bring costs down.
 


Well I do, and even Toyota say that they cost a cool million bucks a pop.  You 
do the maths.  *Or*... we can all just do it home without *any* addition 
infrastructure expense at all (although it would be very helpful if the 
government ponied up for 1/100th of the cost of an H2 infrastructure to pay for 
a proper rapid charge one)!

 
 
 I'm trying to understand the business case for pursuing FCVs instead of the
 seemingly more promising path of furthering advanced lithium chemistries.
 
 There are a number of chemistries being looked at, and IMO you shouldn't 
 think if this as either/or. Batteries development has come a long way, and 
 should continue, even if you think that FCEV will be dominant in the future.  
 Batteries are important in FCEVs, and I would guess that the sizing of 
 batteries v. fuel cells will change over time based on technology, costs and 
 the application. Perhaps it would be better to think of FCEVs as hybrids.
 
 

FC development will always be playing catch up with battery technology.  Its 
been that way for ever and, given the complexity of FC technology and its awful 
comparative efficiency, it probably always will be.


 The only plausible reason to pursue FCVs that I can think of is that it's
 too easy for an upstart manufacturer (like that pesky Tesla) to become an
 EV manufacturer.  The fact that FCVs are inherently more complex and
 require far more in-house RD are barriers to entry for new players.  But
 even that would require winning the hearts and minds of the driving public,
 and I don't see how the user experience is significantly better.  Heck, I
 don't see how you could make an FCV that would gain more market acceptance
 than Toyota's own hybrids.
 
 I don't agree with most of the above.

I'm thinking you are probably pretty much on your own there, then!

 
 
 I'm trying hard to make sense of this.  Where's the return for Toyota?  Is
 there something new in FCV development that I missed?
 
 Only Toyota knows why, but given that most OEMs are moving in this direction 
 either partially or fully seems to point to the need to question your 
 assumptions.
 
 But maybe it's as simple as consumer didn't buy them...end of story. I 
 don't think it's that simple, but it's possible. I was surprised, too, about 
 the RAV4-EV, but it's been clear for awhile that Toyota was going into FCEVs 
 in a big way.
 
 

Toyota and other big auto makers are betting on FCVs to perpetuate the status 
quo ie controlling the vehicle market by tying car owners to a network of 
refuelling stations whose products are ruthlessly price controlled... by the 
car makers themselves (in cahoots with Big Oil, of course... and lets not 
forget the politicians).  Where on Earth is there any money for them with EVs?  
They are virtually maintenance free and don't use any oil!  On the other hand 
you can sell FCVs which, whilst they don't use oil in the conventional sense, 
still use a fossil fuel to power (98% of H2 is made from natural gas).  It 
isn't exactly rocket science!  MW

 
 
 Chris
 
 
 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:44 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 
 
 http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2014/05/toyota-pulling-plug-on-rav4-ev/
 Toyota Pulling Plug on RAV4-EV
 by Paul A. Eisenstein  May 16, 2014
 
 [image

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Toyota Drops RAV4-EV-gen2, shifting to h2

2014-05-22 Thread Martin WINLOW via EV

Roland,

I do hope you are not advocating the use of highly toxic and horribly dangerous 
Potassium hydroxide be carried around in cars as an alternative to (equally as 
dangerous and impractical) H2?  Any collision would make a Tesla fire look like 
cap gun going off in comparison.  Thank God these chemicals are so expensive!

Regards, Martin.
]]
On 21 May 2014, at 16:12, Roland via EV wrote:

 You do not need a H2 tank to hold hydrogen.  You do need a standard tank to 
 hold KOH or other type of chemicals that has H2 to H4 components which is 
 normally for running a standby generator or a fuel cell that can generated up 
 to 50kw. 
 
 The inventor of the alkaline battery also invented this type of fuel cell 
 system.  The military has been using this type of system to instead of a 
 noisy field generator.  
 
 The problem is, the fuel cost is about $15.00 a gallon in a 55 gallon 
 container which I could get locally from a chemical plant.  The cost comes 
 down if you get the fuel in 5000 gallons or is cheaper in the 20,000 gallons 
 tanks.  
 
 H2SO4 which is used in lead acid batteries cost about $15.00 per quart 
 containers which is pure 18 specific gravity. 
 
 Roland 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Ross via EVmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org 
  To: Cor van de Watermailto:cwa...@proxim.com ; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
 Listmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:41 AM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Toyota Drops RAV4-EV-gen2, shifting to h2
 
 
  Toyota is as big a business as there is, along side the oil industry.  I
  think they are just getting in bed with their buds.
 
  It is all about the gas station infrastructure - many see it as too
  ingrained to be avoidable - in that context H2 makes sense as a clean fuel
  if you don't look too close.  There is a lot of money to be made if they
  are right, and Toyota probably thinks they and the oil companies, et al.,
  can make it right.
 
  I think Musk simply questions basic assumptions like this and moves on.
   Then suddenly before the entrenched know what has hit them, there is a
  completely new, potentially viable, very different option that cuts them
  out.
 
  Now is when we really start to see sparks fly.
 
 
  On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Cor van de Water via EV
  ev@lists.evdl.orgwrotemailto:ev@lists.evdl.org%3Ewrote:
 
 H2 is (as we all know) a dead end until significant innovations are made
 and its energy efficiency remains questionable (read: the fuel is likely
 to remain non-competitive) no matter how much the fuel cell gets
 innovated.
 BTW, FCV is still an electric vehicle. It should be called FCEV. Only
 the energy storage is in H2 instead of in batteries, but you need a fuel
 cell to get the power out again so instead of just a controller to tap
 into the battery power, you need the series of H2 tank - fuel cell -
 (often intermediate battery storage for power peaks and for regen
 braking) - controller - electric motor.
 
 So, when (probably not if) the FCV line fails, just rip out the
 clumsy fuel cell setup and H2 tank, pop in a good battery bank and
 off you go in your new EV.
 
 Cor van de Water
 Chief Scientist
 Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.comhttp://www.proxim.com/
 Email: cwa...@proxim.commailto:cwa...@proxim.com Private: 
 http://www.cvandewater.infohttp://www.cvandewater.info/
 Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
 
 -Original Message-
 From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Chris Tromley
 via EV
 Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 3:59 AM
 To: brucedp5; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Toyota Drops RAV4-EV-gen2, shifting to h2
 
 Without wanting to get into a detailed FCV discussion here, I'm puzzled.
 
 1.  Last I heard a practical FCV was not possible until some Brand New
 Stuff was invented, and no one knew if/how/when that would happen.
 2.  Last I heard there was no way to create H2 that was anywhere near as
 efficient as just filling a battery with the same energy.
 3.  Last I heard FCV fueling infrastructure was wildly more expensive
 than
 EV fueling infrastructure.
 
 I'm trying to understand the business case for pursuing FCVs instead of
 the
 seemingly more promising path of furthering advanced lithium
 chemistries.
 The only plausible reason to pursue FCVs that I can think of is that
 it's
 too easy for an upstart manufacturer (like that pesky Tesla) to become
 an
 EV manufacturer.  The fact that FCVs are inherently more complex and
 require far more in-house RD are barriers to entry for new players.
 But
 even that would require winning the hearts and minds of the driving
 public,
 and I don't see how the user experience is significantly better.  Heck,
 I
 don't see how you could make an FCV that would gain more market
 acceptance
 than Toyota's own hybrids.
 
 I'm trying hard to make sense of this.  Where's the return for Toyota?
 Is
 there something new in FCV development that I missed?
 
 Chris

Re: [EVDL] Miles Remaining

2014-05-14 Thread Martin Winlow via EV

See the same item on evtv's website shop - there is a useful setup document you 
can download and they sell it with a suitable shunt.  MW

 On 14 May 2014, at 11:35, Michael K Johnson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 That AH meter at lightobject looks very interesting. It doesn't say
 what shunt or range of shunts it can use that I can see.
 
 I have a buck converter that I can put on my tractor to power the
 meter, but obviously I'd need to use a shunt to measure current. I
 have a 50mV/500A shunt installed; do you have docs to check whether it
 would work?
 
 On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:21 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 On Tue May 13 21:11:33 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
 Thanks, Denis.
 
 It looks like a pretty simple display. I'm sorta hoping for something with 
 more numbers on it. There seem to be a number of units on eBay that only go 
 to 100 V and 30 A:
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/5-in-1-Digital-Combo-Panel-Meter-DC100V30A-Volt-Amp-kWh-Watt-Working-Time-/181403417248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2hash=item2a3c7c7aa0_uhb=1
 
 but I'm hoping for something more like this that will do 196V and up to 500 
 A:
 http://www.accuenergy.com/?discography=acudc-240-series
 
 This unit could display volts, amps, and kWH simultaneously, but I haven't 
 found a supplier nor even a price!
 
 I'm going to try one of these:
 http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx
 
 I have it on my desk, but haven't hooked it up to anything yet.
 
 
 --
 
 Try my Sensible Email package!  
 https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/
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