Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Bruno, Why don't you make a course for dummies about this? (For example in Second Life) Evgenii On 11.07.2011 16:01 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 11 Jul 2011, at 14:33, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 10.07.2011 17:32 Bruno Marchal said the following: On 10 Jul 2011, at 15:20, Craig

Re: COMP refutation paper - finally out

2011-07-12 Thread Russell Standish
On Sat, Jul 09, 2011 at 02:26:19PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: David Deutsch has an interesting discussion about this in his Beginning of Infinity. He actually introduces several notions of universality, one of which is universality of the numbering system. Our numbering system is universal,

Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
Hi Stephen, I have to do a Part I now and get into Part II later on. How does this causality flows in both directions work? I have a model of something that has that kind of feature, but I am curious about yours. Subjectively we feel, (and see, hear, remember, understand) that we can

Re: COMP refutation GAME OVER

2011-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2011, at 20:08, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2011/7/11 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 7/10/2011 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You confuse perhaps with Schmidhuber's position, or some digital physicist (DP). But as I have explained many times here that this position does not work.

Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Jul 2011, at 04:17, Craig Weinberg wrote: You assumptions are not enough clear so I never know if you talk of what is or of what seems to be. I'm trying for 'what seems to be what is', OK. But what is your assumption? since what is isn't knowable In which theory. I think that a

Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
Part II What is your source of that information? About human tetrachromats? http://www.klab.caltech.edu/cns186/papers/Jameson01.pdf Everything else is just my hypothesis. To suspect that ... is to bet that ... is true. How different is that from what Bruno is talking about with the Yes,

RE: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Jesse Mazer
Craig, I wonder what you'd think of Chalmers' Absent Qualia, Fading Qualia, Dancing Qualia argument at http://consc.net/papers/qualia.html which to me makes a strong argument for organizational invariance, which says physical systems organized the same way should produce the same qualia, so

Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jul 2011, at 23:57, Craig Weinberg wrote: I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying. Computer chips don't behave in the same way though. That is just a question of choice of level of description. Unless you believe in substantial infinite souls. Not sure what you mean in

Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Not sure what the cogito has to do with the presumption of the necessity of color. Omnipotence solves all problems by definition, doesn't it? I'm just using it as an example to show that it's ridiculous to think that

Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
Thanks, I always seem to like Chalmers perspectives. In this case I think that the hypothesis of physics I'm working from changes how I see this argument compared to how I would have a couple years ago. My thought now is that although organizational invariance is valid, molecular structure is part

RE: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Jesse Mazer
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 15:50:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Bruno's blasphemy. From: whatsons...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Thanks, I always seem to like Chalmers perspectives. In this case I think that the hypothesis of physics I'm working from changes how I see this

Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 6:10 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: ** On 7/12/2011 2:30 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Not sure what the cogito has to do with the presumption of the necessity of color. Omnipotence

Re: Bruno's blasphemy.

2011-07-12 Thread Craig Weinberg
Oh, yeah I would agree with you if you are talking real world live healthy human bodies then they are going to have a human experience. In a hypothetical, you could not know whether a person was a zombie or not for sure, just because subjectivity is airtight, but mechanically there is no way to