Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

2014-07-09 2:36 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > On 7/8/2014 4:26 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Le 9 juil. 2014 01:09, "meekerdb" a écrit : > > > > On 7/8/2014 3:26 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> > >> > >> Le 8 juil. 2014 22:56, "meekerdb" a écrit : > >> > > >> > On 7/8/2014 12:57 PM, Quentin Anciaux

Re: Apologies to Telmo

Oops now I get it there are 2 matches to go. Netherlands vs Argentina and then the winner vs Germany. OK so it's not quite as complicated as nuclear physics. Probably. On 9 July 2014 17:24, LizR wrote: > I've just been trying to work out if someone has now won the Footie World > Cup. I think f

Re: Apologies to Telmo

I've just been trying to work out if someone has now won the Footie World Cup. I think from Wikipedia that Germany has, beating Brazil, which I assume is the point of this post? Or have I got that wrong? I only understand games like darts and snooker myself. -- You received this message because

Apologies to Telmo

Dear Telmo, In light of recent nationalist spikes and troughs on the list, heartfelt German apologies for the aggression of our country towards the Portuguese speaking population of our pale blue dot. As Bruno noted: On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > Patriotism is e

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 9 July 2014 14:58, meekerdb wrote: > On 7/8/2014 7:37 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 9 July 2014 13:51, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 7/8/2014 6:03 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> I still can't see how the computation can know that it's got a real world >> to relate to, rather than a replay of the inputs recorded

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 9 July 2014 14:03, meekerdb wrote: > On 7/8/2014 6:14 PM, LizR wrote: > > So suppose we have a conscious computer frozen in state S1. We start it > running and let it interact with its environment via, say, a body in the > form of a Mars Rover. We record all the inputs it receives from its >

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 7:37 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 July 2014 13:51, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 7/8/2014 6:03 PM, LizR wrote: I still can't see how the computation can know that it's got a real world to relate to, rather than a replay of the inputs recorded previously. Whic

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 9 July 2014 13:51, meekerdb wrote: > On 7/8/2014 6:03 PM, LizR wrote: > > I still can't see how the computation can know that it's got a real world > to relate to, rather than a replay of the inputs recorded previously. Which > as far as I know is all the MGA relies on. > >>I can't see ho

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 6:14 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 July 2014 12:36, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: the proof that mga gives is a reductio assumibg it's the physical instantiation that gives the computation reality. The conscious computation is assumed at the start given the requ

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 6:03 PM, LizR wrote: I still can't see how the computation can know that it's got a real world to relate to, rather than a replay of the inputs recorded previously. Which as far as I know is all the MGA relies on. I can't see how a conscious digital computer programme being st

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 9 July 2014 12:36, meekerdb wrote: > the proof that mga gives is a reductio assumibg it's the physical > instantiation that gives the computation reality. The conscious computation > is assumed at the start given the requirement that we are in a > computationalist settings... > > Yes, it assu

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 9 July 2014 09:10, meekerdb wrote: > On 7/8/2014 1:36 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 9 July 2014 07:23, meekerdb wrote: > >> But would it still be consciousness if there were no world that >> provided referents for the program? >> > > It's hard to imagine how you could do this *without* a world

Re: Age limit...a modest proposal

On 8 July 2014 23:19, spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > We're. we're.nt? Whew! that's a load off my back. > I think the Daleks wiped them out. > Of course ST is based on the assumption that the society is in perpetual > danger from the outer-spa

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 4:26 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le 9 juil. 2014 01:09, "meekerdb" mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> a écrit : > > On 7/8/2014 3:26 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> Le 8 juil. 2014 22:56, "meekerdb" > a écrit : >> > >> > On 7/8/2014 12:57 PM, Quentin An

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:22 PM Subject: Re: American Intelligence Its not about cowardice or courage, now whos doing the manichean tango? Its about taking in information  tgatv

Re: American Intelligence

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Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

Le 9 juil. 2014 01:09, "meekerdb" a écrit : > > On 7/8/2014 3:26 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> Le 8 juil. 2014 22:56, "meekerdb" a écrit : >> > >> > On 7/8/2014 12:57 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2014-07-08 21:23 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : >> >>> >> >>> On 7/8/2014 11:

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 10:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Jul 2014, at 07:27, meekerdb wrote: Yes, that's an interesting aspect of Bruno's theory. He identifies "provable" with "believes". But the the same kind of thing can be done in a physical theory: "believes" = "acts as if it were true". There'

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 3:26 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le 8 juil. 2014 22:56, "meekerdb" mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> a écrit : > > On 7/8/2014 12:57 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> >> 2014-07-08 21:23 GMT+02:00 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>: >>> >>> On 7/8/2014 11:56 AM, Quentin Anciau

Re: American Intelligence

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 11:19 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Hunter never did anything badass except for his request to hunt wild hogs > in Washington State using thompson submachine guys. This guy nobody feared, > but he was a great writer. What I f

Re: American Intelligence

Yeah the Patriot Acts and the FISA courts are illusions intended to trick people into feeling safe, but does zero matetial good except surrender freedoms that matter. Enhanced interogation in basically suffocation torture, and theres no public evidence that it worked. There are alternatives to

Re: American Intelligence

No paymaster, no handlers, just a guy with an opinion different from your own. I believe the jihad threat is factual, and for whatever reason, you dismiss The threat as false. This is your choice, but sorry to tell you, I don't follow the Party line, especially your parties line. It hasn't wor

Re: American Intelligence

No paymaster, no handlers, just a guy with an opinion different from your own. I believe the jihad threat is factual, and for whatever reason, you dismiss The threat as false. This is your choice, but sorry to tell you, I don't follow the Party line, especially your parties line. It hasn't wor

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

Le 8 juil. 2014 22:56, "meekerdb" a écrit : > > On 7/8/2014 12:57 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> >> 2014-07-08 21:23 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : >>> >>> On 7/8/2014 11:56 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-07-08 20:47 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > > On 7/8/2014 10:43 AM, Br

Re: American Intelligence

Its not about cowardice or courage, now whos doing the manichean tango? Its about taking in information tgatvwe havebon the world, and using to to survive and thrive. Its not about 'Merican' pride and flags and eagles and pickup trucks. Its about surviving what surely will be coming. Its about

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List Sure, as long as you view the lives of jihadists as sacrosanct, and Americans or others as disposable, the violence will continue because theres no incentive for them no to. Just brilliant.  It is precisely because o

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:12 PM Subject: Re: American Intelligence You indicated you had a few disputes with Obama. His national security state is obviously not one of these.

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:13 PM Subject: Re: American Intelligence What's delightful about Left turds is their hilarious sense of superiority.  Hiding behind internet anonymity

Re: American Intelligence

Hunter never did anything badass except for his request to hunt wild hogs in Washington State using thompson submachine guys. This guy nobody feared, but he was a great writer. What I find stinks is the ethnicity of Leftists like yourself. Back in the day they used to call goose steppers like y

Re: American Intelligence

What's delightful about Left turds is their hilarious sense of superiority. Oh, it seems clear to me that you would have been one that was just fine with the institution of Slavery. "for the sake of the union". Thanks for clarifying that. -Original Message- From: 'Chris de Morsella

Re: American Intelligence

You indicated you had a few disputes with Obama. His national security state is obviously not one of these. It's merely a matter of Thank Stalin, its not a rightwing security state. And the abuse of power has expanded vastly then under Bushie-but, no matter. A fearless leader is a fearless leade

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 1:36 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 July 2014 07:23, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: But would it still be consciousness if there were no world that provided referents for the program? It's hard to imagine how you could do this /without/ a world to supply referents. Ev

Re: American Intelligence

Sure, as long as you view the lives of jihadists as sacrosanct, and Americans or others as disposable, the violence will continue because theres no incentive for them no to. Just brilliant. And it is a good thing too -- for everyone -- that batshit crazy genocidal maniacs such as you are not i

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 12:57 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-07-08 21:23 GMT+02:00 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>: On 7/8/2014 11:56 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-07-08 20:47 GMT+02:00 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>: On 7/8/2014 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 9 July 2014 07:23, meekerdb wrote: > But would it still be consciousness if there were no world that provided > referents for the program? > It's hard to imagine how you could do this *without* a world to supply referents. Even if the world being simulated in the MGA was some abstract virtua

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 9 July 2014 05:16, meekerdb wrote: > On 7/8/2014 1:17 AM, LizR wrote: > > On 8 July 2014 17:46, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 7/7/2014 7:34 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 8 July 2014 14:19, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> I think comp implies that we won't have created consciousness, but we will have

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

2014-07-08 21:23 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > On 7/8/2014 11:56 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > 2014-07-08 20:47 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > >> On 7/8/2014 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 07 Jul 2014, at 21:13, meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 7/7/2014 8:14 AM, David Nyman wrote: >> >> On 6 July

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 11:56 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-07-08 20:47 GMT+02:00 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>: On 7/8/2014 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Jul 2014, at 21:13, meekerdb wrote: On 7/7/2014 8:14 AM, David Nyman wrote: On 6 July 2014 04:18, meekerdb mail

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 08 Jul 2014, at 19:16, meekerdb wrote: It's not entirely facetious; it's pointing to a general problem with everythingism theories. They hypothesize "everything" in some sense (all arithmetic truth or all orbifolds of strings for example) and consider that our world is thereby explaine

Re: American Intelligence

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:09 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > That statement reminds me of one of Hunter S. Thomson's attorney, from his > epic "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas." > > You are batshit crazy dude! > > > *"We can't stop here, this is bat c

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 05 Jul 2014, at 07:27, meekerdb wrote: Yes, that's an interesting aspect of Bruno's theory. He identifies "provable" with "believes". But the the same kind of thing can be done in a physical theory: "believes" = "acts as if it were true". There's even a whole theory of Bayesian infere

Re: How dangerous is radiation?

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:22 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > You did not read the study I posted did you? > No, and I'm quite certain you didn't either, > The epidemiological evidence linking exposure to Radon to increased risk > of cancer

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 07 Jul 2014, at 21:13, meekerdb wrote: On 7/7/2014 8:14 AM, David Nyman wrote: On 6 July 2014 04:18, meekerdb wrote: >> Yes, but it's a theory of epistemology "after the physical fact". It >> assumes without further justification what it wishes to prove, > > No, it defines a certain

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 10:11 AM Subject: Re: American Intelligence No I tend to agree with the Constitution, not that it didn't sacrifice Black rights for the sake of the Unio

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List I will never be your 'darlin' -- not even after hell freezes over... so don't get your hopes up piss ant.  Well, maybe its simply that He who lives by the state, dies by the state? I have some distrust for all these guys

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List That statement reminds me of one of Hunter S. Thomson's attorney, from his epic "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas."  You are batshit crazy dude! > "We can't stop here, this is bat country!!!" And it is a good thing too --

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 7/8/2014 1:17 AM, LizR wrote: On 8 July 2014 17:46, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 7/7/2014 7:34 PM, LizR wrote: On 8 July 2014 14:19, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: I think comp implies that we won't have created consciousness, but

Re: American Intelligence

I will never be your 'darlin' -- not even after hell freezes over... so don't get your hopes up piss ant. Well, maybe its simply that He who lives by the state, dies by the state? I have some distrust for all these guys you side with-Obama's NSA, Obama's FBI, Obama's IRS. They are your's,

Re: American Intelligence

On 06 Jul 2014, at 19:06, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Sure, even under Bush, Terror won, for the simple fact he was reluctant to even name the enemy. Terrorism is a method, and not a person, and as you point out, and BHO and his party, come from a nuanced, progessivist, view, of

Re: American Intelligence

No I tend to agree with the Constitution, not that it didn't sacrifice Black rights for the sake of the Union. But it was rational unlike your stalin copycats. Yes, I very much agree! You do hate the US Constitution; it stands in the way of your megalomania and genocidal inclination Herr g

Re: American Intelligence

That statement reminds me of one of Hunter S. Thomson's attorney, from his epic "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas." You are batshit crazy dude! "We can't stop here, this is bat country!!!" Your refusal to rationally, reply, is super good with me, because you, and your side, has no reply to g

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:54 AM Subject: Re: American Intelligence Yes, I can see what you are: Genocidal maniac, escaped from neocon insane-asylum. >Chris >>Last I checked,

Re: American Intelligence

From: spudboy100 via Everything List To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:50 AM Subject: Re: American Intelligence Hatred is what drives you… hatred of muslims, hatred of liberals, hatred of [fill in the box]>>Yeah buddy.

Re: American Intelligence

Yes, I can see what you are: Genocidal maniac, escaped from neocon insane-asylum. Chris Last I checked, darlin', sanity has never been a dictum for human history, only the use of raw power. Some suppose that the interest in freedoms, responsibility, and rational government was a sometime th

Re: American Intelligence

Hatred is what drives you… hatred of muslims, hatred of liberals, hatred of [fill in the box] Yeah buddy. Of course there is no rational reason for such a dyspeptic pov is there? Of course not. Hates the Constitution, Check!, Wants the US to succumb, double check! -Original Message-

RE: American Intelligence

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 4:35 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: American Intelligence It sounds reasonable, however as the country tune says. "Ya gotta stand for something or you'll fa

RE: American Intelligence

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 4:53 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: American Intelligence Understood. I would have been tempted back in the days of Tora Bora in 2001. I would want the Musl

RE: American Intelligence

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] You get asked a question and you go nuts. What I suspect is that you simply choke on having to revealing your level of antipathy toward this nation state. Hahaha - of you "suspect". I oppose hateful vio

Re: American Intelligence

Understood. I would have been tempted back in the days of Tora Bora in 2001. I would want the Muslim realm to say to themselves, "These people are pissed, and they may come for us!" You might know that I saw the Bushes and the Clintons and even Barr, are affiliated with the Ruling Classes of Wa

Re: American Intelligence

You get asked a question and you go nuts. What I suspect is that you simply choke on having to revealing your level of antipathy toward this nation state. That's my conclusion, but I demand nothing from you except a logical argument. If its all the same to you. I'll just file it under the deran

Re: American Intelligence

Why bother with expensive carpet bombing. Just nuke them. Unsigned On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 7:34 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > It sounds reasonable, however as the country tune says. "Ya gotta stand > for something or you'll fall for anything." Thi

Re: American Intelligence

Gee, I feel all deconstructed, like Jacque Derrida. Aw! Why, when your question was answered and you don't answer what point you're trying to get across with your posts or this unspecified hypothetical threat scenario? If you're asking for threat response, then I hold you haven't specifi

Re: American Intelligence

It sounds reasonable, however as the country tune says. "Ya gotta stand for something or you'll fall for anything." This lyric also made into a Chinese fortune cookie, I once saw. On the specifics of the Jihad we now seem to face, because of America's weakness by Bush but also by Obama, especi

Re: Age limit...a modest proposal

We're. we're.nt? Whew! that's a load off my back. Of course ST is based on the assumption that the society is in perpetual danger from the outer-space insect hordes, (Maybe if we can modify the brain to remove the "God Spot" - but that might have bad consequences...) Yeah, I was th

Re: What's the answer? What's the question?

On 8 July 2014 17:46, meekerdb wrote: > On 7/7/2014 7:34 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 8 July 2014 14:19, meekerdb wrote: > >> I think comp implies that we won't have created consciousness, but we >>> will have enabled some of the consciousness that exists by hypothesis in >>> arithmetic to manifes