Re: Realizable quantum states

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 4:54 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 7/31/2018 2:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, July 31, 2018, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 7/31/2018 9:19 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> What I was referring to with the "can only be seen" were the *effects* >> of the int

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/31/2018 2:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tuesday, July 31, 2018, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 7/31/2018 9:19 AM, Jason Resch wrote: What I was referring to with the "can only be seen" were the /effects/ of the interference, be they the final result

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Tuesday, July 31, 2018, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 7/31/2018 9:19 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > What I was referring to with the "can only be seen" were the *effects* of > the interference, be they the final results of the quantum computation or > the light and dark bands in the two slit experi

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/31/2018 9:22 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 1:15 AM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 7/30/2018 9:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 11:21 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jaso

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/31/2018 9:19 AM, Jason Resch wrote: What I was referring to with the "can only be seen" were the /effects/ of the interference, be they the final results of the quantum computation or the light and dark bands in the two slit experiment. So by "effects" you mean classical effects...altho

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 1:15 AM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 7/30/2018 9:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 11:21 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >>> >>> You can

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 12:01 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 11:21 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >>> >>> You can use "itself" only if this "i

Re: Realizable quantum states

> On 31 Jul 2018, at 07:56, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 7/30/2018 9:19 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> You might be referring to my comments. I didn't exactly say that the wf >> isn't real. I was focused on the superposition being wrongly interpreted, >> and IMO this is what Schroedinger showed

Re: Realizable quantum states

> Il 31 luglio 2018 alle 5.06 agrayson2...@gmail.com ha scritto: > > > > On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 12:57:34 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:42 PM Bruce Kellett < > > bhke...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > >

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/30/2018 9:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 11:21 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote:

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/30/2018 9:19 PM, Jason Resch wrote: *You might be referring to my comments. I didn't exactly say that the wf isn't real. I was focused on the superposition being wrongly interpreted, and IMO this is what Schroedinger showed with his cat experiment. I then concluded that su

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 11:21 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote:

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: mailto:agrayson2...@gmail.com>> On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 4:21:53 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: From: *Jason Resch* On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: From: *Jason Resch* You can use "itself" only if this "it" can be in multiple locati

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 4:21:53 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Jason Resch > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch > >> >> >> You can use "itself" only if this "it" can be in multiple locations and >> heading in different directions. >> >> >> Tha

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 11:21 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> >> You can use "itself" only if this "it" can be in multiple locations and >> heading in different directions. >> >> >> That is a pr

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> You can use "itself" only if this "it" can be in multiple locations and heading in different

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 10:06 PM wrote: > > > On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 12:57:34 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:42 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:22 PM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> From: Jason Resch >>>

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 8:33 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:36 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 6:12 PM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:29 AM, B

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 1:33:21 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > From: Jason Resch > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:36 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch > >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 6:12 PM Bruce Kellett > > wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch > >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 1

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 12:57:34 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:42 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch > >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:22 PM Bruce Kellett > > wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch > >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 2:38 PM Brent Meeker >>

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 7:38:38 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 7/30/2018 7:39 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > Does it exist and happen, or does the final result merely materialize >>> magically like the live or dead cat? >>> >> >> *In my view, we don't know how the final result materializes; the

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:36 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 6:12 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote:

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:42 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:22 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 2:38 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 7/30/2018 7:39 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> Does it ex

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:36 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 6:12 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:29 AM, Bruce Kellett < >> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >> >>> From: Jason Resch >>> >>> >>> On

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:22 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 2:38 PM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 6:12 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:29 AM, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote:

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:22 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 2:38 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 7/30/2018 7:39 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> Does it exist and happen, or does the final result merely materialize magically like the live or dead

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 6:12 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:29 AM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> ?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than clas

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 2:38 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 7/30/2018 7:39 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Does it exist and happen, or does the final result merely materialize magically like the

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 2:38 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 7/30/2018 7:39 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > Does it exist and happen, or does the final result merely materialize >>> magically like the live or dead cat? >>> >> >> *In my view, we don't know how the final result materializes; the great >

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:29 AM, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/30/2018 8:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: If one denies the existence of the wave function however, it leaves no room for talking about these intermediate states that are necessary to explain how the final result of the computation ends up in the qubits. And all those qubits exist in the s

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/30/2018 7:39 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Does it exist and happen, or does the final result merely materialize magically like the live or dead cat? *In my view, we don't know how the final result materializes; the great unsolved problem in QM, aka the measurement prob

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/29/2018 10:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: ?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than classical computers.  There are some algorithms that allow a QC to calculate something faster;

Re: Realizable quantum states

> On 30 Jul 2018, at 07:10, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 7/29/2018 8:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 6:44 PM, > > wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:23:49 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >> wr

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 2:11:11 PM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:29 AM, Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch > >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >>> ?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than classical >>> com

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:49 AM, wrote: > > > On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 5:17:16 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> ?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than classical >>> computers. There are some algorithms that al

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:41 AM, wrote: > > > On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 5:08:24 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 10:30 PM, wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 3:11:47 AM UTC, Jason wrote: On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 6:44 PM, wrote: >

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:29 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> ?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than classical >> computers. There are some algorithms that allow a QC to calculate >> something fas

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 5:17:16 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> ?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than classical >> computers. There are some algorithms that allow a QC to calculate >> something faster; but the do

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 5:08:24 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 10:30 PM, > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 3:11:47 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 6:44 PM, wrote: >>> On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:23:49 PM UT

Re: Realizable quantum states

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: ?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than classical computers.  There are some algorithms that allow a QC to calculate something fas

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Brent Meeker wrote: > ?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than classical > computers. There are some algorithms that allow a QC to calculate > something faster; but the domain and range is the same. > > So absent that reason does it follow that t

Re: Realizable quantum states

?? Quantum computers cannot calculate anything more than classical computers.  There are some algorithms that allow a QC to calculate something faster; but the domain and range is the same. So absent that reason does it follow that the wave function is merely a convenient (and very accurate) t

Re: Realizable quantum states

On 7/29/2018 8:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 6:44 PM, > wrote: On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:23:49 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 10:31:05 PM UTC, Jason wrot

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 10:30 PM, wrote: > > > On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 3:11:47 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 6:44 PM, wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:23:49 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 10:31

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 3:11:47 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 6:44 PM, > > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:23:49 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 10:31:05 PM UTC, Jason wrote: Quantum computers re

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 6:44 PM, wrote: > > > On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:23:49 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 10:31:05 PM UTC, Jason wrote: >>> >>> Quantum computers represent a disproof of the conjecture that the wave >>> function is merely a conve

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 11:23:49 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 10:31:05 PM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> Quantum computers represent a disproof of the conjecture that the wave >> function is merely a convenience or tool for estimating probabilities of >> e

Re: Realizable quantum states

On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 10:31:05 PM UTC, Jason wrote: > > Quantum computers represent a disproof of the conjecture that the wave > function is merely a convenience or tool for estimating probabilities of > experimental outcomes, rather than something that is real. The reason: it > does thi

Re: Realizable quantum states

Quantum computers represent a disproof of the conjecture that the wave function is merely a convenience or tool for estimating probabilities of experimental outcomes, rather than something that is real. The reason: it does things we cannot. Jason On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 11:23 PM, wrote: > Up an

Realizable quantum states

Up and Dn are realizable physical states for a spin 1/2 particle. Up - Dn, and Up + Dn are also realizable, that is physical states of a spin 1/2 particle, according to the QM formaliam. We can't measure the latter two states because, presumably, we can't imagine what they are. Not being able t