Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-01-01 Thread meekerdb
On 12/31/2013 7:19 PM, LizR wrote: That sounds a bit like multi-solipsism - and a bit like Kant (?) indicating that we can never know the thing in itself only our interpretation of it. (Actually isn't that also what comp says?) I think that's what science has taught metaphysics. We make up

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-01-01 Thread meekerdb
On 12/31/2013 7:22 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 13:54, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/31/2013 3:24 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 12:05, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Mark A. Rubin

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-01-01 Thread LizR
On 1 January 2014 21:34, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/31/2013 7:22 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 13:54, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Of course in Hilbert space there's no FTL because the system is just one point and when a measurement is performed it projects

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 19:59, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear Bruno, Is a 3p view necessarily an ontological primitive? OF course: no. Only the one we assume at the start. But an ontological primitive is arguably necessarily 3p in the scientific explanation of the 1p, or on anything.

Re: The background to Edgar's book

2014-01-01 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: Hi John, as a former ed-in-chief of a science magazine (Ion Exchange and Membranes) I know the difficulties one can

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
Dear Stephen, On 31 Dec 2013, at 20:19, Stephen Paul King wrote: I really do appreciate the details! On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:04 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 19:33, meekerdb wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at

Re: The Nature of Truth

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 21:09, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: only rules to extract knowledge from assumed beliefs. ? I answered no to your question. Knowledge is not extracted in any way from belief (assumed or not). knowledge *is* belief, when or in the world

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 21:19, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 20:00, meekerdb wrote: On 12/30/2013 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that's essentially everything, since everything is (presumably) quantum. But notice the limitation of quantum

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 21:52, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: A entire parallel universe as big as our own that you can never go to or even see is about as far from being local as you can get. Differentiation/splitting of universes is a local phenomenon. It is not

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:11, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 23:32, meekerdb wrote: On 12/30/2013 2:20 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:45 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/30/2013 1:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote:

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:16, LizR wrote: My 15 year old son asked me Why do people believe in God? Because all correct machine, cognitively rich enough (= believing in numbers and induction, or being Löbian, ...) when they look inward, discover the gap between G and G*, or the gap between

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:27, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 2:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 21:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does fundamental level mean? Does there have to be

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:39, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 2:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: To be sure, the material hypostases are not transitive, so when we observe, we don't observe that we observe, but when we feel or know, it is the case that we feel feeling and we know that we know

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:58, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Brent, It is only vicious if there is no time. For example: Math-Physics-Biology-Evolution-Humans-Culture-Science-Math' - Physics' - ... That spiral too in the UD*, but the Brent's circles also. Without any paradox involved. Note

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Jan 2014, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 9:54 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 12:12 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: There are at least two possible answers to the bell

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Jan 2014, at 01:18, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: But I feel that you must already know this. Are you just being Devil's Advocate, or do you honestly not see the

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Jan 2014, at 09:34, meekerdb wrote: But if you want to get FTL, that's possible if Alice and Bob are near opposite sides of our Hubble sphere when they do their measurements. They are then already moving apart faster than c and will never be able to communicate - with each other,

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2014-01-01 Thread Russell Standish
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 01:20:35AM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Jason, That's a totally off the wall answer. When the two shake hands it's not just photons that are interacting, it's the electrons, protons and neutrons of the matter of their hands which don't travel at the speed of light.

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Bruno, I think that we should start with 1p - the solipsist - as fundamental and then work from there to solve the problem of the other which will give us a 3p. On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:20 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 19:59, Stephen Paul King wrote:

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Bruno, On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Dear Stephen, On 31 Dec 2013, at 20:19, Stephen Paul King wrote: I really do appreciate the details! On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:04 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 19:33,

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
Dear Stephen, On 01 Jan 2014, at 16:35, Stephen Paul King wrote: I think that we should start with 1p - the solipsist - as fundamental and then work from there to solve the problem of the other which will give us a 3p. That's for woman and engineers. The doer. It is only the right

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Jan 2014, at 16:46, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear Bruno, On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Dear Stephen, On 31 Dec 2013, at 20:19, Stephen Paul King wrote: How does it emerge? The UD, alias RA, emulates all machines. I see this

Re: What are wavefunctions?

2014-01-01 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:33 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 January 2014 21:34, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/31/2013 7:22 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 13:54, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Of course in Hilbert space there's no FTL because the system is

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-01-01 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 3:22 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/31/2013 7:19 PM, LizR wrote: That sounds a bit like multi-solipsism - and a bit like Kant (?) indicating that we can never know the thing in itself only our interpretation of it. (Actually isn't that also what comp

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2014-01-01 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.auwrote: On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 01:20:35AM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Jason, That's a totally off the wall answer. When the two shake hands it's not just photons that are interacting, it's the electrons, protons and

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread meekerdb
On 1/1/2014 2:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Then there is the FPI emergence, which is made of all finite union of the finite piece of the UD work. Don't you say that persons and matter are not computable because the number of UD states corresponding to a piece of matter is not finite? Isn't

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2014-01-01 Thread Jason Resch
Edgar, I believe I may understand your point about a universal present, but it is something relativity handles, as far as I can see, without having to postulate anything new. Anything having the same (x, y, z, t) coordinates can interact, where t is coordinate time. It seems like you believe

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread meekerdb
On 1/1/2014 3:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Because all correct machine, cognitively rich enough (= believing in numbers and induction, or being Löbian, ...) when they look inward, discover the gap between G and G*, or the gap between truth about them and proof about them. As an analysis of

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-01-01 Thread meekerdb
On 1/1/2014 3:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:27, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 2:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Dec 2013, at 21:43, Stephen Paul King wrote: Dear LizR and Brent, I will try to go at this from a different direction. What exactly does fundamental

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-01-01 Thread meekerdb
On 1/1/2014 4:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jan 2014, at 01:18, meekerdb wrote: On 12/31/2013 1:58 PM, LizR wrote: On 1 January 2014 10:46, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 31 Dec 2013, at 03:09, LizR wrote: But I feel that you must

RE: Talk by Dr. Timothy Mousseau on the effects of radionuclides on bird, insect, plant and animal populations in the Chernobyl exclusion zone and in the Fukushima exclusion zone

2014-01-01 Thread Chris de Morsella
35 minute talk. Supporting slide-show from Chernobyl/Fukushima research. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rAJnIxQgxU -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

RE: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Chris de Morsella
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:50 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality On 31 Dec 2013, at

Re: Another stab at the universal present moment - a gedanken..

2014-01-01 Thread LizR
On 2 January 2014 09:15, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: Edgar, I believe I may understand your point about a universal present, but it is something relativity handles, as far as I can see, without having to postulate anything new. Anything having the same (x, y, z, t) coordinates

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-01-01 Thread meekerdb
On 1/1/2014 11:46 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 3:22 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/31/2013 7:19 PM, LizR wrote: That sounds a bit like multi-solipsism - and a bit like Kant (?) indicating that we can never

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Jan 2014, at 21:11, meekerdb wrote: On 1/1/2014 2:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Then there is the FPI emergence, which is made of all finite union of the finite piece of the UD work. Don't you say that persons and matter are not computable because the number of UD states

Re: Another shot at how spacetime emerges from computational reality

2014-01-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Jan 2014, at 21:30, meekerdb wrote: On 1/1/2014 3:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Because all correct machine, cognitively rich enough (= believing in numbers and induction, or being Löbian, ...) when they look inward, discover the gap between G and G*, or the gap between truth about