Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:47:54 PM UTC+1, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 07:48:28AM -0700, ghi...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 14, 2014 2:54:25 AM UTC+1, Russell Standish wrote: > > > > > > Do you have evidence that "conservatives have been pushed and

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 07:48:28AM -0700, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Monday, April 14, 2014 2:54:25 AM UTC+1, Russell Standish wrote: > > > > Do you have evidence that "conservatives have been pushed and kept out > > (of academia)"? > > > > Whilst it is true that people who's views lie outs

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Monday, April 14, 2014 2:54:25 AM UTC+1, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 07:03:31AM -0700, ghi...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:57:39 PM UTC+1, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: > > > A large component of the political spectrum do feel alienated from >

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/13/2014 6:54 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 07:03:31AM -0700, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:57:39 PM UTC+1, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: A large component of the political spectrum do feel alienated from science and that does leave them - and so as

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 07:03:31AM -0700, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:57:39 PM UTC+1, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: > > A large component of the political spectrum do feel alienated from science > > and that does leave them - and so as find with climate Science - vulnerab

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:57:39 PM UTC+1, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Thursday, April 10, 2014 2:24:04 AM UTC+1, Brent wrote: >> >> On 4/9/2014 5:50 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 9 April 2014 13:14, chris peck wrote: >> >>> *>> If in some general discussion of climate change someone says

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Thursday, April 10, 2014 2:24:04 AM UTC+1, Brent wrote: > > On 4/9/2014 5:50 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 9 April 2014 13:14, chris peck >wrote: > >> *>> If in some general discussion of climate change someone says (as a >> convenient shorthand) that "97% of climate scientists agree that AGW is

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

-Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Russell Standish Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 8:23 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing O

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Wed, Apr 09, 2014 at 06:24:04PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: > > If scientists are more likely to believe something that is true in > their field than to believe the contrary (which is false), then it > is a simple application of Bayesian inference to show that > scientists believing X is evidence fo

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/9/2014 5:50 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 April 2014 13:14, chris peck > wrote: /*>> If in some general discussion of climate change someone says (as a convenient shorthand) that "97% of climate scientists agree that AGW is a fact", what is the logical

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 9 April 2014 13:14, chris peck wrote: > *>> If in some general discussion of climate change someone says (as a > convenient shorthand) that "97% of climate scientists agree that AGW is a > fact", what is the logical fallacy they are committing? I'd like to know so > I can avoid it in future my

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

ink climate change is occurring', then it is a fallacy. Things are not true because people believe them right? Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 12:59:53 +1200 Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing From: lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 9 April 2014 12:51, chris peck wrote: > >> >> It would still be a logical fallacy to proclaim something to be true > because of who said it, rather than what was said. > > * >> I think Liz has clarified what is actually being claimed here.* > > Liz is under the misconception that I argue that

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

es because '97% of scientists agree' they commit a fallacy. This latest row was trigger by nothing more controversial than that. > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 10:18:34 +1000 > From: li...@hpcoders.com.au > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: If you can't disprove

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:50:07PM +, chris peck wrote: > >> Absolutely. But people without any form of research training would find it > very difficult indeed. > > All attempts to write about science for general consumption are > worthless are they, Russell? For example, you spent 5 years >

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

cians with that sort of training though. Most politicians have training in Law. A far more subtle and far harder discipline than science. You should give them more credit. > Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 09:24:08 +1000 > From: li...@hpcoders.com.au > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com > Subj

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:06:09PM +, chris peck wrote: > >> To see if various denier criticisms were valid. > > So you accept the claims of climate change advocates as true by default and > only read those papers which have criticisms leveled at them by deniers? That > isn't very even hande

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 8 April 2014 13:19, chris peck wrote: > > *>> Hence, people who claim that scientists agree because of some reason > other than looking at the instruments and using their best theories to > interpret the readings - e.g. people who claim that they agree for some > psychological reason, e.g. bec

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

stently been that the truth of a statement is not to be decided by who has said it, but by what has been said. Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 15:19:06 -0700 From: meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

? Or are you content that 3% disagreeing proves there's no problem? Brent -- Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 10:13:44 -0700 From: meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: If you

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 10:13:44 -0700 From: meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing On 4/8/2014 4:44 AM, chris peck wrote: >> Oh, when it suits yo

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/8/2014 4:44 AM, chris peck wrote: >> Oh, when it suits your prejudice it's OK to just count votes. You suddenly no longer need to read the papers and decide for yourself. Eh? Why the sour face? I thought you'ld be cracking open the champagne. There's no consensus. I give you perhaps the

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

> statistics." > > > I think global warming including AGW is real but there are two arguable outcomes: (1) transition to the next warmer stable climate, or (2) trigger global cooling as exemplified by the Vostok ice core data over the last few ice ages Richard > > ---

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

e of this thread is really ironic. It could as well have been, "if the the science is in fact ambiguous, deflect attention to startling statistics." Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 10:38:07 +0200 Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing From: te...@telmomenez

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:45 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 4/5/2014 4:13 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:01 AM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 4/5/2014 12:40 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 5 April 2014 23:30, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

so you should too. Now on evolution, lots of scientists think we evolved via natural selection, so you should too. Good. that about wraps it up for your science class this week. Lets move on to home economics...' Im actually stunned this is under debate. Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 12:14:29 +1200

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

pompous idiots, which I guess - > dipping my toes into the world of extraordinary psychological insight > myself for a moment - they wanted to avoid). > > > Im sure you know what you're talking about but I haven't got a clue. > > > > > > > ---

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

% of scientists agree!!!' its an empty statement and should be discarded as such. To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing From: spudboy...@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 09:27:00 -0400 Let's agree its a real problem, but

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

s peck To: everything-list Sent: Sun, Apr 6, 2014 7:08 pm Subject: RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing The real story here is that a peer reviewed journal was intimidated into withdrawing a paper that had passed through the proper review channels. That the inte

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 06 Apr 2014, at 20:36, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:47 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 4/5/2014 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:04 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Sure, I also find it quite likely that powerful fossil f

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 06 Apr 2014, at 20:08, meekerdb wrote: On 4/6/2014 12:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Apr 2014, at 06:47, meekerdb wrote: On 4/5/2014 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:04 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Sure, I also find it qui

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/6/2014 7:32 PM, chris peck wrote: >> So does the agreement of physicists at CERN tell you nothing about whether the Higgs boson exists? It tells me absolutely nothing. Im interested in why they agree not that they agree. >> How do you know that - did you take someone's word for it? Was

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

be pompous idiots, which I guess - dipping >> my toes into the world of extraordinary psychological insight myself for a >> moment - they wanted to avoid). Im sure you know what you're talking about but I haven't got a clue. Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:47:42 +1200 Subject:

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 7 April 2014 14:32, chris peck wrote: > >> So does the agreement of physicists at CERN tell you nothing about > whether the Higgs boson exists? > > It tells me absolutely nothing. Im interested in why they agree not that > they agree. > They agree because the equipment they used produced a si

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

died >> and answered. And did they answer those objections by appealing to a consensus? Did they go 'Its not cosmic rays because 76% of scientists believe otherwise'? >>You apparently didn't read about Alfred Russell's experience with John Hampden. No I

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/6/2014 5:35 PM, chris peck wrote: Brent If 100% of scientists were in agreement about climate change, that fact alone, tells me nothing about the truth of the claims they actually make. So does the agreement of physicists at CERN tell you nothing about whether the Higgs boson exists?

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

e more accurate. Those 99% have as much responsibility to show why the 1% are wrong as vica versa. Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 16:51:34 -0700 From: meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/6/2014 4:08 PM, chris peck wrote: The real story here is that a peer reviewed journal was intimidated into withdrawing a paper that had passed through the proper review channels. That the internet is full of conspiracy theory isn't news. And to the extent that climate science denial is co

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

rom: meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing On 4/6/2014 11:36 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/6/2014 11:36 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:47 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 4/5/2014 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:04 AM, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Me

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 6:47 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 4/5/2014 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:04 AM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> Sure, I also find it quite likely that powerful fossil fuel companies are >> lobbying or us

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/6/2014 1:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Prohibition seems to me to have been planned in advance by bandits to get power, with the complicity of some special interest. They failed with alcohol, but succeeded with marijuana. Your reasoning would imply that prohibiting anything is a secret plot

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/6/2014 12:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Apr 2014, at 06:47, meekerdb wrote: On 4/5/2014 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:04 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Sure, I also find it quite like

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 06 Apr 2014, at 13:00, Kim Jones wrote: On 6 Apr 2014, at 5:40 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: So do you classify religion as a conspiracy? Do you think clergy are really all atheists and are just conspiring to fool others? I am pretty sure of this. Do you think that a christian believer

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 05 Apr 2014, at 12:30, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote: That doesn't narrow it down too much. Je m'accuse. I was one of them. My point was that conspiracy theories, in the sense of power elites secretly cooperating to further their own interests again

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 05 Apr 2014, at 16:19, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote: That doesn't narrow it down too much. Je m'accuse. I was one of them. My point was that conspiracy theories, in the sense of p

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 6 Apr 2014, at 5:40 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> So do you classify religion as a conspiracy? Do you think clergy are really >> all atheists and are just conspiring to fool others? > > I am pretty sure of this. > > Do you think that a christian believer of the top would protect the child

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 06 Apr 2014, at 06:47, meekerdb wrote: On 4/5/2014 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:04 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Sure, I also find it quite likely that powerful fossil fuel companies are lobbying or using even dirtier tricks

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/5/2014 4:18 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:04 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Sure, I also find it quite likely that powerful fossil fuel companies are lobbying or using even dirtier tricks to

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/5/2014 4:13 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:01 AM, meekerdb > wrote: On 4/5/2014 12:40 PM, LizR wrote: On 5 April 2014 23:30, Telmo Menezes mailto:te...@telmomenezes.com>> wrote: On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR mailt

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:04 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Sure, I also find it quite likely that powerful fossil fuel companies are > lobbying or using even dirtier tricks to discredit AGW theory. On the other > hand, this says nothing about the truth status

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 1:01 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 4/5/2014 12:40 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 5 April 2014 23:30, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote: >> >>> That doesn't narrow it down too much. >>> >> >> Je m'accuse. I was one of them. >> >> My point was t

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/5/2014 3:54 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Sure, I also find it quite likely that powerful fossil fuel companies are lobbying or using even dirtier tricks to discredit AGW theory. On the other hand, this says nothing about the truth status of AGW theory. Doesn't it? If it weren't true, then di

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4/5/2014 12:40 PM, LizR wrote: On 5 April 2014 23:30, Telmo Menezes > wrote: On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR mailto:lizj...@gmail.com>> wrote: That doesn't narrow it down too much. Je m'accuse. I was one of them. My point was th

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 9:40 PM, LizR wrote: > On 5 April 2014 23:30, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote: >> >>> That doesn't narrow it down too much. >>> >> >> Je m'accuse. I was one of them. >> >> My point was that conspiracy theories, in the sense of power e

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

Telmo and Liz: Conspiracy my foot. It cuts into profits. Moloch is talking. Gullibility (even the negative one) is based on ignorance, when I first heard about the "global warming" threat (~ 30 years ago) I joked: 'my climate-log is incomplete for the past 30 (300?) million years', so I reserve

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 5 April 2014 23:30, Telmo Menezes wrote: > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote: > >> That doesn't narrow it down too much. >> > > Je m'accuse. I was one of them. > > My point was that conspiracy theories, in the sense of power elites > secretly cooperating to further their own interes

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy < multiplecit...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote: >> >>> That doesn't narrow it down too much. >>> >> >> Je m'accuse. I was one of them

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote: > >> That doesn't narrow it down too much. >> > > Je m'accuse. I was one of them. > > My point was that conspiracy theories, in the sense of power elites > secretly cooperating to further th

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 11:47 AM, LizR wrote: > That doesn't narrow it down too much. > Je m'accuse. I was one of them. My point was that conspiracy theories, in the sense of power elites secretly cooperating to further their own interests against the interests of the majority are not, unfortuna

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

That doesn't narrow it down too much. On 5 April 2014 22:31, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > It was in one of the climate threads. > Le 5 avr. 2014 09:11, "LizR" a écrit : > >> On 4 April 2014 19:35, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >>> 2014-04-04 1:29 GMT+02:00 LizR : >>> >>> "Climate Deniers Intimidate J

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

It was in one of the climate threads. Le 5 avr. 2014 09:11, "LizR" a écrit : > On 4 April 2014 19:35, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> 2014-04-04 1:29 GMT+02:00 LizR : >> >> "Climate Deniers Intimidate Journal into Retracting Paper that Finds They >>> Believe Conspiracy Theories" >>> >>> Ironically,

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

On 4 April 2014 19:35, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > 2014-04-04 1:29 GMT+02:00 LizR : > > "Climate Deniers Intimidate Journal into Retracting Paper that Finds They >> Believe Conspiracy Theories" >> >> Ironically, it looks like they are conspiring to silence any mention of >> this fact! >> >> >> http:

RE: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

-Original Message- From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb Fortunately, the University of Western Australia was not so timid; so you can read the original paper here: http://www.psychology.uwa.edu.au/research/cognitive/?a=25

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

2014-04-04 1:29 GMT+02:00 LizR : > "Climate Deniers Intimidate Journal into Retracting Paper that Finds They > Believe Conspiracy Theories" > > Ironically, it looks like they are conspiring to silence any mention of > this fact! > > > http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-deniers-intim

Re: If you can't disprove the science, you can always try suing

Fortunately, the University of Western Australia was not so timid; so you can read the original paper here: http://www.psychology.uwa.edu.au/research/cognitive/?a=2523540 Brent On 4/3/2014 4:29 PM, "Climate Deniers Intimidate Journal into Retracting Paper that Finds They Believe Conspiracy Th