Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012-10-31 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 01:14:47PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 10/28/2012 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: How do you answer the person who get the 1-7 points, and concludes (as he *believes* in a primary material world, and in comp) that this proves that a physical universe, to procede

Re: Re: Computationalism -- Leibniz's new paradigm for science

2012-10-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal Yes, in Leibniz's metaphysics, the only active agent is the supreme monad (the One), who essentially does everything-- but performs actions needed or requested by its submonads. One might think of the supreme monad as creating all actions. As universal mind. The actions

Could universes in a multiverse be solipsistic ? Would this be a problem ?

2012-10-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal 1) Yes, numbers float in a sea of universal mind (the One). 2) Here's a thought. If the universe acts like a gigantic homunculus, with the supreme monad or One as its mind, then could there be a solipsism to our universe such that other multiverse versions of oiur universe

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2012, at 18:29, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/30/2012 12:38 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: No? If they do not have something equivalent to concepts, how can they dream? Yes, the universal numbers can have concept. Dear Bruno, Let's start over. Please plain in detail what is a

Applying Kant's categories to Platonia

2012-10-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King and Bruno, Number would probably be under one of Kant's categories, quantity. 昐ubstance (e.g., man, horse) 昋uantity (e.g., four-foot, five-foot) 昋uality (e.g., white, grammatical) 昍elation (e.g., double, half) 昉lace (e.g., in the Lyceum, in the market-place) 旸ate (e.g.,

Re: Scott Aronson on free will

2012-10-31 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 , meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: John Clark should get a kick out of this: http://www.scottaaronson.com/talks/ In computer science, we deal all the time with processes that are neither deterministic nor random. BULLSHIT! An example is a nondeterministic

Re: Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb I think the = sign allows a concept to be predicated, such as 2 = 1+1 where 1+1 is the predicate. A concept and a predicate form a proposition, and you need a proposition to judge whether something is true or false. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/31/2012 Forever is a

Re: Communicability

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2012, at 18:32, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/30/2012 12:38 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: We need only to agree on the axioms: x + 0 = x x + s(y) = s(x + y) x *0 = 0 x*s(y) = x*y + x together with some axioms on equality. Dear Bruno, How do you explain the communicability of

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2012, at 18:39, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/30/2012 12:51 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Oct 2012, at 17:04, meekerdb wrote: On 10/30/2012 4:30 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: My argument is that concepts of truth and provability of theorems apply only to the concepts of numbers

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2012, at 19:52, meekerdb wrote: On 10/30/2012 10:43 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/10/30 Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net On 10/30/2012 12:51 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Oct 2012, at 17:04, meekerdb wrote: On 10/30/2012 4:30 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: My argument is

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2012, at 19:58, meekerdb wrote: If there were no humans, no human level consciousness, would it still be true that Holmes assistant is Watson? If there are no humans, Conan Doyle would not have created the Holmes and Watson characters, to which the use of the names refer, and the

Re: Code length = probability distribution

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Oct 2012, at 08:21, Russell Standish wrote: On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 01:14:47PM -0700, meekerdb wrote: On 10/28/2012 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: How do you answer the person who get the 1-7 points, and concludes (as he *believes* in a primary material world, and in comp) that this

Re: Computationalism -- Leibniz's new paradigm for science

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:30, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal Yes, in Leibniz's metaphysics, the only active agent is the supreme monad ... This makes sense, with supreme monad = universal number. ... (the One), I prefer to reserve the ONE for the whole arithmetical truth. The

Re: Could universes in a multiverse be solipsistic ? Would this be a problem ?

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:39, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal 1) Yes, numbers float in a sea of universal mind (the One). The ONE is much more than the universal mind, as it is where the universal minds compete, perhaps before eventually recognizing themselves and reuniting, or fusing,

Re: Against Mechanism

2012-10-31 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 30 Oct 2012, at 18:46, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: So you were not answering the question in my post, which can be sum up: are you OK with step 3, and what about step 4? I don't even remember what step 2 was, I found a blunder in your

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/30/2012 7:36 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net wrote: On 10/30/2012 5:39 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 10/30/2012 2:27 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/30/2012 5:15 PM,

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: Dear Cowboy, One question. Was the general outline that I was trying to explain make any sense to you? Without being obvious about it, I am trying to finely parse the difference between the logic of temporal

Re: Could universes in a multiverse be solipsistic ? Would this be a problem ?

2012-10-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/31/2012 9:39 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 1) Yes, numbers float in a sea of universal mind (the One). 2) Here's a thought. If the universe acts like a gigantic homunculus, with the supreme monad or One as its mind, then could there be a solipsism to our universe such that other multiverse

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/31/2012 12:22 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Oct 2012, at 18:29, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/30/2012 12:38 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: No? If they do not have something equivalent to concepts, how can they dream? Yes, the universal numbers can have concept. Dear Bruno, Let's start

Re: Communicability

2012-10-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/31/2012 12:33 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Oct 2012, at 18:32, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/30/2012 12:38 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: We need only to agree on the axioms: x + 0 = x x + s(y) = s(x + y) x *0 = 0 x*s(y) = x*y + x together with some axioms on equality. Dear Bruno,

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/31/2012 12:45 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Oct 2012, at 18:39, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/30/2012 12:51 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Oct 2012, at 17:04, meekerdb wrote: On 10/30/2012 4:30 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: My argument is that concepts of truth and provability of

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/31/2012 6:14 PM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net wrote: Dear Cowboy, One question. Was the general outline that I was trying to explain make any sense to you? Without

Life: origin, purpose, and qualia spectrum

2012-10-31 Thread Hal Ruhl
Hi Everyone: I would like to restart my participation on the list by having a discussion regarding the aspects of what we call “life” in our universe starting in a simple manner as follows: [terms not defined herein have the usual “Laws of Physics” definition] 1) Definition (1): Energy (E)

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread meekerdb
On 10/31/2012 11:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I don't see why denying mathematical realism would entail saying no to the doctor. It implies not saying yes qua computatio. It implies NOT understanding what Church thesis is about, as to show it consistent you need the diagonalization, which use

Re: Scott Aronson on free will

2012-10-31 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 12:25:06PM -0400, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 , meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: John Clark should get a kick out of this: http://www.scottaaronson.com/talks/ In computer science, we deal all the time with processes that are neither

Re: Numbers in the Platonic Realm

2012-10-31 Thread meekerdb
On 10/31/2012 6:58 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: Enumerate the programs computing functions fro N to N, (or the equivalent notion according to your chosen system). let us call those functions: phi_0, phi_1, phi_2, ... (the phi_i) Let B be a fixed bijection from N x N to N. So B(x,y) is a