Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: you must not neglect the question asked ​What question? I saw words and question marks but I saw no question.​ ​> ​ > which concerns the first person experience expected. ​Which THE the first person experience is

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: ​> ​ > In this situation, does the copy that opens his eyes in Barcelona only see > Barcelona? > ​Obviously.​ > ​> ​ > And the copy that opens his eyes in Paris only see Paris? > ​Obviously. And equally obvious

Re: Andrei Linde on consciousness

Interesting interview (I wonder where it was...CERN?).  Linde makes leap though from the Hamiltonian of the universe is zero to we need consciosness to explain change.  He considers having an instrument record events, but then he says he must become conscious of the recording.  That doesn't

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:04 PM, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Terren Suydam > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> In this situation, does the copy that opens his eyes in Barcelona only >> see Barcelona? >> > > ​Obviously.​ > > > >> ​> ​

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: ​> ​ > So the expectation of anyone who enters a duplicator would be ​The expectations of what will happen will change from person to person, but the reality of what actually did happen will not. > ​> t​ > o open

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > ​> >> ​>​ >> ​ >> nobody can feel to be in two places at once with computationalism >> > ​ > ​> ​ > That is not a sacred axiom of computationalism! > > ​> ​ > It is simple consequence. > ​Show me how! Explain to me why

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

I am less worried about conscious machines, but instead focus on intuitive machinery, that grabs science knowledge from wide apart fields and builds new inventions from these. Think more on the lines of, a rocket ship with a life-support interior that protects and feeds the travelers inside.

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 4:30 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Terren Suydam > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> So the expectation of anyone who enters a duplicator would be > > > ​The expectations of what will happen will change from

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 at 4:44 pm, John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:48 AM, Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > > > ​> ​ >> Asking about your expectations is an attempt to show what your implicit >> beliefs about your future are. >> > > OK, If you

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: ​> ​ > It seems that you would want your assets distributed to the copies, > ideally both of them, if not both then one, randomly chosen (“it doesn’t > matter which one”). ​Yes. I want somebody tomorrow who

Hoffman on Consciousness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY I've encountered Hoffman's ideas before. What he has to say may strike you as somewhat obvious in the context of this list, but it's quite well articulated and his metaphors and analogies are quite memorable. Towards the end he says "Perhaps reality is

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 at 1:48 am, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Stathis Papaioannou > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> It seems that you would want your assets distributed to the copies, >> ideally both of them, if not both then one, randomly

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: ​ >> ​>> ​ >> The expectations of what will happen will change from person to person, >> but the reality of what actually did happen will not. >> > > ​> ​ > The reality of what actually does happen is not available to

Re: Hoffman on Consciousness

It's a dishonest obfuscation.  Of course you are constructing a model of reality.  So what?  Because the model building mechanism was evolved and can be fooled doesn't mean it's not a model OF reality.  When he looks at a tomato and thinks, "That's a tomato." it's a true thought, unlike say,

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 10:14 AM, John Clark wrote: > ​> ​ >> But before we continue, I need to be sure we agree that from your >> first-person perspective, when it comes to making decisions based on some >> future state, you only have the contents of your mind to work

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at spudboy100 via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: ​> ​ > You folks want Profundity-If this is fact, it is, Profundity itself. A > Japanese team came up with a super-duper quantum computing architecture, > that looks to be able to eat the Protein

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On 25 September 2017 at 22:34, Terren Suydam wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 1:51 PM, John Clark wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Terren Suydam >> wrote: >> >> ​> ​ >>> Then we agree that expectations are

Re: Infinities

On 9/25/2017 6:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Sep 2017, at 21:02, smitra wrote: On 23-09-2017 10:34, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Sep 2017, at 13:47, David Nyman wrote: https://www.quantamagazine.org/mathematicians-measure-infinities-find-theyre-equal-20170912/ [1] A rare progress on

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > ​> ​ > It is the specific city that I will feel be in that I cannot predict. > ​Because when talking about the future AFTER going through a *"I" *duplicating ​ ​machine the personal pronoun* "I​" *becomes ambiguous.

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On 25 Sep 2017, at 19:51, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Terren Suydam wrote: ​> ​Then we agree that expectations are important, since the wrong ones can kill us. ​Forget important, expectations are not even meaningful in thought

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On 25 Sep 2017, at 21:37, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​>> ​The only​ ​identity criteria​ ​I remember agreeing to is​ "​the Moscow man" means the man who saw Moscow​.​ ​> ​You have agreed that the Moscow Man (like the

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 5:34 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: ​ >> ​>> ​ >> Forget important, expectations are not even meaningful in thought >> experiments involving people duplicating machines if >> ​ ​ >> it is not clearly stated what is being expected. >> > > ​> ​ > You're

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 7:48 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: ​> ​ > Asking about your expectations is an attempt to show what your implicit > beliefs about your future are. > OK, If you say "What one and only one city do you expect to ​see​ ​ after you walk into the ​ ​ that

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On 26 Sep 2017, at 07:30, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: You folks want Profundity-If this is fact, it is, Profundity itself. A Japanese team came up with a super-duper quantum computing architecture, that looks to be able to eat the Protein Folding Problem, with pepper and salt.

Re: A profound lack of profundity (and soon "the starting point")

On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 at 7:51 pm, John Clark wrote: > On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Terren Suydam > wrote: > > ​> ​ >> Then we agree that expectations are important, since the wrong ones can >> kill us. >> > > ​ > Forget important, expectations