Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 23 Aug 2019, at 03:34, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 8:41:40 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Aug 2019, at 15:47, Lawrence Crowell > > wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 4:42:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 21 Aug 2019, at

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 8:41:40 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Aug 2019, at 15:47, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 4:42:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 21 Aug 2019, at 03:42, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, August 20,

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 21 Aug 2019, at 16:27, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 4:42:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Things are much simpler if we assume mechanism, like Everett. But Everett > stil assumes some universal wave, which, when we assume mechanism, must be > ju

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 21 Aug 2019, at 15:47, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 4:42:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Aug 2019, at 03:42, Lawrence Crowell > > wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 6:12:05 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: >> Bruno, >> >> I think it is clear

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 4:42:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > Things are much simpler if we assume mechanism, like Everett. But Everett > stil assumes some universal wave, which, when we assume mechanism, must be > justify by the mechanist first person indeterminacy in arithmeti

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 4:42:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Aug 2019, at 03:42, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 6:12:05 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: >> >> Bruno, >> >> I think it is clear that you have no coherent local causal many-worlds >> account

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 21 Aug 2019, at 03:42, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 6:12:05 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: > Bruno, > > I think it is clear that you have no coherent local causal many-worlds > account of the EPR correlations. If you did have one, you would have produced > it by

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 21 Aug 2019, at 01:11, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > Bruno, > > I think it is clear that you have no coherent local causal many-worlds > account of the EPR correlations. If you did have one, you would have produced > it by now. Instead you keep changing the subject and propounding irrelevant

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 8:42:58 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 6:12:05 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: >> >> Bruno, >> >> I think it is clear that you have no coherent local causal many-worlds >> account of the EPR correlations. If you did have one, you would

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at 6:12:05 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: > > Bruno, > > I think it is clear that you have no coherent local causal many-worlds > account of the EPR correlations. If you did have one, you would have > produced it by now. Instead you keep changing the subject and propounding >

Re: Local Realism and Bell

Bruno, I think it is clear that you have no coherent local causal many-worlds account of the EPR correlations. If you did have one, you would have produced it by now. Instead you keep changing the subject and propounding irrelevant truisms as if they were great insights. So be it. I must admit th

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On 20 Aug 2019, at 08:24, Bruce Kellett wrote:On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:41 PM Bruno Marchal wrote:On 19 Aug 2019, at 04:02, Bruce Kellett wrote:On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 11:00 PM Bruno Marchal wrote:Brent, Bruce,O

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:41 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 19 Aug 2019, at 04:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 11:00 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> Brent, Bruce, >> >> On 16 Aug 2019, at 22:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 19 Aug 2019, at 13:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:41 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 19 Aug 2019, at 04:02, Bruce Kellett > wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 11:00 PM Bruno Marchal > >

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:41 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 19 Aug 2019, at 04:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 11:00 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> The state is ud - du, for d = down and u = up, with the usual sqrt(2) = 1. >> >> The idea is that when Alice see her photon bei

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 19 Aug 2019, at 04:02, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 11:00 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > Brent, Bruce, > > On 16 Aug 2019, at 22:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: >> On 8/16/2019 4:23 AM

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 18 Aug 2019, at 20:46, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 8/18/2019 2:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 17 Aug 2019, at 21:49, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/17/2019 6:00 AM, Brun

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 11:00 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > Brent, Bruce, > > On 16 Aug 2019, at 22:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > On 8/16/2019 4:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 16 Aug 2019, at 03:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > e

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On 8/18/2019 2:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Aug 2019, at 21:49, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 8/17/2019 6:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The idea is that when Alice see her photon being u, she knows that whatever she will be interact with will be consistent wit her photo

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 15 Aug 2019, at 17:56, Jason Resch wrote: > > From: https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/21/1/87/htm > > > Abstract: We carry out a thought experiment in an imaginary world. Our world > is both local and realistic, yet it violates a Bell inequality

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 17 Aug 2019, at 21:49, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 8/17/2019 6:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> The idea is that when Alice see her photon being u, she knows that whatever >> she will be interact with will be consistent wit her photon being u and with >> bob p

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On 8/17/2019 6:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The idea is that when Alice see her photon being u, she knows that whatever she will be interact with will be consistent wit her photon being u and with bob photon being d, including the bob she could ever manifest herself relatively. And reciprocal

Re: Local Realism and Bell

Brent, Bruce, > On 16 Aug 2019, at 22:26, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 8/16/2019 4:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 16 Aug 2019, at 03:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/15/2

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 12:21 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 16 Aug 2019, at 13:30, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:23 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 16 Aug 2019, at 03:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> On 8/15/2019 5:06

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 3:26:47 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 8/16/2019 4:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 Aug 2019, at 03:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > > > On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 a

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On 8/16/2019 4:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Aug 2019, at 03:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell >

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 16 Aug 2019, at 13:30, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:23 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: > On 16 Aug 2019, at 03:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: >> On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrot

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:23 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 16 Aug 2019, at 03:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell < > goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com

Re: Local Realism and Bell

> On 16 Aug 2019, at 03:27, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell >> mailto:goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com>> >> wrote: >> I started reading this. It looks similar to the PR box arg

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 8:27:23 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > >> I started reading this. It looks similar to the PR box argument. >> > > I have skimmed through it. It seems that Al

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 2:07 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 8:43 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:27 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >> everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Aug

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 8:43 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:27 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell < >> goldenfieldquaterni..

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:27 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell < > goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I started reading this. It looks simila

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On 8/15/2019 5:06 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: I started reading this. It looks similar to the PR box argument. I have skimmed through it. It seems that Alice and Bob both split locally accor

Re: Local Realism and Bell

It postulates there is a change in the global state function which spreads at the speed of light and decoheres superpositions that are measured. Brent On 8/15/2019 4:25 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: I started reading this. It looks similar to the PR box argument. LC On Thursday, August 15, 20

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 7:06:51 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > >> I started reading this. It looks similar to the PR box argument. >> > > I have skimmed through it. It seems that Alice and Bob both split locally > according to the re

Re: Local Realism and Bell

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:25 AM Lawrence Crowell < goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote: > I started reading this. It looks similar to the PR box argument. > I have skimmed through it. It seems that Alice and Bob both split locally according to the results they get, but then rely on magic to p

Re: Local Realism and Bell

I started reading this. It looks similar to the PR box argument. LC On Thursday, August 15, 2019 at 10:56:24 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > > From: https://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/21/1/87/htm > > Abstract: We carry out a thought experiment in an imaginary world. Our > world is both local and realistic,

Re: Local Realism and Bell

*"quantum theory is the science of preparing systems in one state and detecting them in another state; everything that happens in between is philosophy"* - https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/philosophy-of-physics-quantum-theory/ Everyone has their own breed of gremlins that operate "in between". @phil