[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---My experience differs from the contributor below. I've been initiated into many mantra meditation techniques, but my TM mantra is the only one with significant Power in it. Perhaps your initiation was invalid. (performed by a poor transmitter of Shakti). That makes sense. After all, Jerry Jarvis (my initiator) was sort of a wimp, shakti-wise. :-) And actually, the techniques that have been most effective at producing long, extended periods of transcendence for me use no mantra at all. As a result, I'm not a big my mantra is more powerful than your mantra kinda guy. If other techniques are more powerful than TM, what are they? Thanks. In my case, various traditional Tibetan and Indian techniques, taught in a big room to hundreds of people at a time, without initiation. Go figure. I must respectfully disagree with you there. I personally tried a few different technicques before learning TM But when did you learn TM? Was this a long time ago? There wasn't much available besides TM in the 1960s and 1970s. The landscape has changed - dramatically - in the past decade. I have had personal experience with an assortment of techniques in the last decade that are much more powerful than TM, and much more powerful than the entire TM sidhis program. What TurquoiseB says is entirely correct, negative side effects included. --- jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip The bottom line is that TM is just a brand name for a made-up technique of meditation that is (in my opinion as a former TM teacher) no better than any other tech- nique of meditation, less effective than many, and more likely to produce negative side effects than most. I must respectfully disagree with you there. I personally tried a few different technicques before learning TM, which is the only one which enabled me to unequivocally transcend, easily and on a regular basis. As to the side effects, I think you'd find that for any technique where transcendence is as regular as with TM. The theory espoused about the practice, that it unwinds stresses in the body, rings true for me during the time I've done the technique. For some I would guess, those stresses are deep enough that they don't release very easily. Probably a pretty common event for anyone doing spiritual practice for enough years. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 15 kinds of inauspicious deaths
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (from a website on the Great Compassion Mantra). Even Enlightened people can experience inauspicious deaths. A higher form of biological evolution would be the attainment of a Rainbow Light Body. (even before physical death). The bad deaths are: 1. They will not die of starvation or privation 2. They will not die from having been yoked, imprisoned, caned or otherwise beaten 3. They will not die at the hands of hostile enemies 4. They will not be killed in military battle 5. They will not be killed by tigers, wolves, or other evil beasts 6. They will not die from the venom of poisonous snakes, black serpents, or scorpions 7. They will not drown or be burned to death 8. They will not be poisoned to death 9. They will not die as a result of sorcery 10. They will not die of madness or insanity 11. They will not be killed by landslides or falling trees 12. They will not die of nightmares sent by evil people 13. They will not be killed by deviant spirits or evil ghosts 14. They will not die of evil illnesses which bind the body 15. They will not commit suicide For some reason, this text's fascination with bad ways to die reminds me of the following Monty Python skit, especially the hymn at the end: [Headmaster Humphrey Williams addresses the bored looking assembly] Humphrey: And spotteth twice, they, the camels before the third hour. And so the Midianites went forth to Ram Gilead in Kadesh Bilgemath, by Shor Ethra Regalion, to the house of Gash-Bil-Bethuel- Bazda: he who brought the butter dish to Balshazar and the tent peg to the house of Rashomon. And there slew they the goats, yea, and placed they the bits in little pots. Here endeth the lesson. Chaplain: Let us praise God. [The congregation rises.] Chaplain: O Lord Congregation: O Lord Chaplain: ooh, You are so big Congregation: ooh, You are so big Chaplain: so absolutely huge. Congregation: so absolutely huge. Chaplain: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You. Congregation: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You. Chaplain: Forgive us, O Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying, and Congregation: and barefaced flattery. Chaplain: But You're so strong and, well, just so super. Congregation: Fantastic! Chaplain: Amen. Congregation: Amen. [The congregation sits again.] Humphrey: Now, two boys have been found rubbing linseed oil into the school cormorant. Now, some of you may feel that the cormorant does not play an important part in the life of the school, but I would remind you that it was presented to us by the Corporation of the town of Sudbury to commemorate Empire Day, when we try to remember the names of all those from the Sudbury area who so gallantly gave their lives to keep China British. So, from now on, the cormorant is strictly out of bounds! Oh, and Jenkins, apparently your mother died this morning. Chaplain? [The Chaplain leads the congregation in a hymn.] Chaplain, Congregation: [singing] Oh, Lord, please don't burn us, Don't grill or toast your flock. Don't put us on the barbecue, Or simmer us in stock. Don't braise or bake or boil us, Or stir-fry us in a wok. Oh please don't lightly poach us, Or baste us with hot fat, Don't fricassee or roast us, Or boil us in a vat, And please don't stick thy servants Lord, In a Rotissomat... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. Thanks for posting that. I was in Fiuggi, too, and certainly don't remember signing or being presented with any kind of document. But I've run into people from those courses in Fiuggi who claimed otherwise, so I've always wondered whether the document signing thang they talk about happened only in their minds or whether it really happened on some day when I didn't attend a meeting. Your account makes me tend to lean towards the former interpretation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had an anatomy professor 30+ years ago (pre-med program) who could tell where in the world your ancestry was from by the shape of your skull. I don't know if it was pure luck or not, but he knew exactly where in Eastern Europe my family descended from and he seemed to be able to do this as if it was magic. I have a similar skill that, in my youth, I endeavored to demonstrate often. I can tell where a woman's ancestors were from simply by examining her breasts and judging the size, shape and feel of them. Unfortunately, I was not able to find enough willing subjects to come up with any scientific statistics as to my technique's accuracy, but I can assure you that in the few instances in which the line worked, it was magic every time. :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. Thanks for posting that. I was in Fiuggi, too, and certainly don't remember signing or being presented with any kind of document. But I've run into people from those courses in Fiuggi who claimed otherwise, so I've always wondered whether the document signing thang they talk about happened only in their minds or whether it really happened on some day when I didn't attend a meeting. Your account makes me tend to lean towards the former interpretation. That's not the point. The point is that TM is a trademarked name owned by the TMO/Maharishi. Scozarri doesn't have the right to use it any more. He's not teaching TM the way Maharishi wants it taught now. If he wants to teach, he should do so without using the TM name, just advertise that he teaches meditation. His background as a 30+ year TM teacher, trained by Maharishi is a powerful and impressive qualification. Publicizing his background training, while explaining that he can no longer use the TM name is a simple and honest solution, and frankly I think he'd have far greater enrollment doing that than he does by using the TM name. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. Thanks for posting that. I was in Fiuggi, too, and certainly don't remember signing or being presented with any kind of document. But I've run into people from those courses in Fiuggi who claimed otherwise, so I've always wondered whether the document signing thang they talk about happened only in their minds or whether it really happened on some day when I didn't attend a meeting. Your account makes me tend to lean towards the former interpretation. That's not the point. The point is that TM is a trademarked name owned by the TMO/Maharishi. Scozarri doesn't have the right to use it any more. He's not teaching TM the way Maharishi wants it taught now. It seems obvious that your definition of legal revolves around how Maharishi wants things, but I somehow doubt that the legal system's definition of legal is defined quite the same way. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's not the point. The point is... The point seems to me to be that *all* of this garbage is an attempt, before Maharishi dies, to clean up the TM movement's shoddy record-keeping and business practices and establish clear legal ownership of the TM technique and their ability to sell it in perpetuity. The whole recert thang was pretty obviously an attempt to get signed legal documents from teachers, and to declare anyone who did *not* sign new legal documents (and pay several thousand dollars and agree to quit their jobs and work full time for the TMO in the process) persona non grata, no longer part of or representatives of the TM movement. This lawsuit is an extension of the same thing. It's an attempt to forestall the inevitable factionalization of a spiritual movement that happens when its leader dies. IMO none of it has anything to do with teaching TM or the organization's professed spiritual goals; it's purely about estab- lishing legal control over the corporation's assets, so as to prevent any group of former TM teachers from either making a claim against them, or going off and teaching on their own, without paying obeisance (and, of course, money) to the official parent org. How you feel about it probably has a lot to do with how you feel about *why* one teaches meditation in the first place. If part of you still remembers why most of us signed up as teachers in the first place -- to help people -- you're probably shocked and saddened by the spectacle of the TM movement being turned into a corporation that sues the people who built it and seems only interested in money and control over its employees. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Point, take two (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff no_reply@ wrote: That's not the point. The point is... Another interesting way of viewing the legal machinations of the TM movement in the last year or so (the recert thang, the suing of Mike Scozzari, etc.) is, from my warped point of view, in terms of Shakespeare. Shakespeare was an interesting dude. He managed to pick plotlines for his plays that allowed him to ruminate on the qualities of human beings, both base and noble. So is there one of his plays that anyone feels is a parallel to what's going on with Maharishi and the TM movement right now? Might I suggest King Lear? Think about it. Lear is *old*. He's dying, and he knows it. So what does he obsess about, and *do* about this inevitability? In his folly and fear of death, he establishes a kind of contest, and tries to get his three daughters to prove how much they love him. Two of them -- the toady twins Goneril and Regan, fall all over themselves to show him how much they love him. After all, they don't want to be cut out of the will and lose their positions of power in the court. The third daughter, who actually *does* love old Lear, and is saddened by seeing him brought low by his own insecurities, refuses to participate in the prove thy love contest. As a result, she not only gets diddley- squat in the will, she is banished. Her toady boyfriend, realizing that he ain't gonna inherit anything, dumps Cordelia and joins Lear in dissing her. So do most of the other courtiers. It becomes a real suck-up-to-the- crazy-old-man fest and, of course, a tragedy in the end. Maharishi as Lear, the movie: Goneril and Regan and the Earl of Kent and the rest of the courtly suck-ups played by the Rajas and the recerts, Cordelia played by the independents. Somewhere in there is a great part for a Fool, if anyone wants to audition... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Point, take two (the TM movement as Shakespeare)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff no_reply@ wrote: That's not the point. The point is... Another interesting way of viewing the legal machinations of the TM movement in the last year or so (the recert thang, the suing of Mike Scozzari, etc.) is, from my warped point of view, in terms of Shakespeare. Shakespeare was an interesting dude. He managed to pick plotlines for his plays that allowed him to ruminate on the qualities of human beings, both base and noble. So is there one of his plays that anyone feels is a parallel to what's going on with Maharishi and the TM movement right now? Might I suggest King Lear? Think about it. Lear is *old*. He's dying, and he knows it. So what does he obsess about, and *do* about this inevitability? In his folly and fear of death, he establishes a kind of contest, and tries to get his three daughters to prove how much they love him. Two of them -- the toady twins Goneril and Regan, fall all over themselves to show him how much they love him. After all, they don't want to be cut out of the will and lose their positions of power in the court. The third daughter, who actually *does* love old Lear, and is saddened by seeing him brought low by his own insecurities, refuses to participate in the prove thy love contest. As a result, she not only gets diddley- squat in the will, she is banished. Her toady boyfriend, the Duke of Burgundy, realiz- ing that he ain't gonna inherit anything, dumps Cordelia and joins Lear in dissing her. So do most of the other courtiers. It becomes a real suck-up- to-the-crazy-old-man fest and, of course, a tragedy in the end. Maharishi as Lear, the movie: Goneril and Regan and the Duke of Burgundy and the rest of the courtly suck-ups played by the Rajas and the recerts, Cordelia played by the independents. Somewhere in there is a great part for a Fool, if anyone wants to audition... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Interesting Sanskrit words: sat asat (introduction)
The present tense indicative(?) conjugation of the verb as (to be): Singular: asmi I am asi you are asti he/she/it is Dual: svaH we (two) are sthaH you (two) are staH they (two) are Plural: smaH we are stha youse are santi they are Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting Sanskrit words: sat asat (introduction)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: stha youse are That's the variant of Sanskrit spoken in Brooklyn, right? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Year of Good Darshan
--- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/5/06 3:21 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://amma.org/ No, she won't be here until June. I don't know exact dates, except for Fairfield (July 8-9), but the tour schedule is as follows: Seattle, San Ramon, Los Angeles, Santa Fe, Dallas, Chicago, Fairfield, New York, Washington, Boston, Toronto Tell me, every time you go and see her, do you get a hug? Yes, once a day. Most stops on the tour are 2-3 days - some longer if there's a retreat. San Ramon is longest, but tends to be very crowded. I simply don't get it. What's the point? Deeply realized beings impact you outside of the mind's capacity to understand. There is no point. That's just the mind trying to get something to gratify a desire. Realization is outside of gratification. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
Always keep a light-saber handy. --- It is no surprise that Westerners mainly find false gurus. When you have cheated your own guru in the past why should you not be cheated on now? You get what you pay for; that is the Law of Karma. So why is this? Why do most of the people in the West want knowledge from the wrong motive, and get only cheats as gurus? Why? Because most Westerners are asuras at heart. All the celestials, including the asuras, have to go somewhere when they fall down to earth. Many of the asuras--who are very fond of indulging themselves with meat, alcohol and sex, remember--have been born in the West, where they continue to indulge themselves. Occasionally one of them wakes up, a little; but because asuras are egotistical they conclude, as soon as they learn a little, that they know everything. Almost as soon as they learn how to meditate they start calling themselves gurus. But what do they really know of Indian wisdom? Nothing! They are still just probing our spirituality now. They will be learning spiritual things from us for the next 500 years. Even the dog of one of our Rishis could teach them for one hundred years and still have more to teach. Westerners are so far behind us in spirituality that to shine out among them is nothing. It is child's play for our so-called swamis to go abroad and try to impress all the monkeys over there with their so-called knowledge. I can tell you one thing: A real guru will come to the Westerners only when they decide that they are ready for real knowledge, and they invite Shukracharya [rishi and guru of the demons]... ...They won't need to search for him; when they are sincerely ready he will appear. They are his disciples, he is responsible for them. It is a great blessing to be guru or king to a bunch of asuras, because you are in a position to improve them. Unfortunately they tend to fall back into their old habits very easily, since their innate natures cannot change. Even Shukracharya tires of them now and again. I call people asuras when even though they have the desire for sadhana they cannot seem to follow the basic rules of discipline. I am willing to try to help such people out, but most of them are by no means ready for spirituality yet and I grow tired, of them too. from Karma by Robert Svoboda detailing a conversation between the Aghori Vimalananda And Robert Svoboda Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Remember Shakti: Saturday Night in Bombay DVD
If you can find a copy of this DVD anywhere, grab it--fantastic! I can post a video clip if anyone is interested. The blip below says it all.Remember Shakti: Saturday Night in Bombay [LIVE] Guitarist McLaughlin and tabla drummer Zakir Hussain first joined together as Shakti in 1975 to fuse together the rhythmic and improvisational energies of jazz and the classical music of northern India. Regrouping in the late '90s, the two have since raised the level of the synthesis significantly in a quartet with the extraordinary young mandolin player U. Shrinivas and percussionist V. Selvaganesh. These recordings come from December 2000, when Remember Shakti was playing concerts in Bombay at the end of a world tour. It's clearly the occasion for celebration, with the group expanding to include several guests, but it's distinguished by the same quality that has graced their live performances and the previous CD, The Believer: a hypnotic luminosity that enfolds flights of extraordinary virtuosity and sustained dialogue into a tranquil whole. That mood is further enhanced here by the setting, the layered polyrhythms of multiple drummers, and the singing of Shankar Mahadevan. The wedding of East and West is most apparent in McLaughlin's sprightly "Luki," with the guitarist's harmonies specifically invoking jazz. "Shringar," nearly 27 minutes long, is played by a quartet, with its composer Shiv Kumar Sharma on santur, a Persian zither. Beginning in a sustained meditative stillness, it eventually builds to one of McLaughlin's most brilliant solos. As they have in the past, McLaughlin and Hussain again give new meaning and possibilities to the idea of "world music." --Stuart Broomer To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd marwincornyarmand@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: What conditions were attached? For one, teaching under the auspices of the particular TMO name that is cited in the written contract that most teachers that were ever made teachers by MMY signed, and to not deviate from those teachings... Are you a teacher of TM? If so, when you were made a teacher, do you not remember signing a document? I do... I was not given a copy of this document. Is it still a valid contract? JohnY I always thought that a signed contract is only valid when both parties receive a copy of it. That's what I thought too, and it's the reason I'm asking. IANAL :-) JohnY It seems ig is valid even if you don't get a copy. Ingegerd As a matter of fact, I can't remember if we signed anything in `76, we were very rushed at the end. JohnY I was in Arosa in 1975 - signing the Agreement Form with Notary Public - . it would be very strange if the same did not happen in 1976. Ingegerd Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:32 AM, Ingegerd wrote:I was in Arosa in 1975 - signing the Agreement Form with Notary Public - . it would be very strange if the same did not happen in 1976. Ingegerd There was a copy of this document on the web for a while. IIRC it was on a German anti-TM site. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] good posts, Turquoise
You're well oiled today Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always keep a light-saber handy. --- It is no surprise that Westerners mainly find false gurus. When you have cheated your own guru in the past why should you not be cheated on now? You get what you pay for; that is the Law of Karma. So why is this? Why do most of the people in the West want knowledge from the wrong motive, and get only cheats as gurus? Why? Because most Westerners are asuras at heart. All the celestials, including the asuras, have to go somewhere when they fall down to earth. Many of the asuras--who are very fond of indulging themselves with meat, alcohol and sex, remember--have been born in the West, where they continue to indulge themselves. Occasionally one of them wakes up, a little; but because asuras are egotistical they conclude, as soon as they learn a little, that they know everything. Almost as soon as they learn how to meditate they start calling themselves gurus. But what do they really know of Indian wisdom? Nothing! They are still just probing our spirituality now. They will be learning spiritual things from us for the next 500 years. Even the dog of one of our Rishis could teach them for one hundred years and still have more to teach. Westerners are so far behind us in spirituality that to shine out among them is nothing. It is child's play for our so-called swamis to go abroad and try to impress all the monkeys over there with their so-called knowledge. I can tell you one thing: A real guru will come to the Westerners only when they decide that they are ready for real knowledge, and they invite Shukracharya [rishi and guru of the demons]... ...They won't need to search for him; when they are sincerely ready he will appear. They are his disciples, he is responsible for them. It is a great blessing to be guru or king to a bunch of asuras, because you are in a position to improve them. Unfortunately they tend to fall back into their old habits very easily, since their innate natures cannot change. Even Shukracharya tires of them now and again. I call people asuras when even though they have the desire for sadhana they cannot seem to follow the basic rules of discipline. I am willing to try to help such people out, but most of them are by no means ready for spirituality yet and I grow tired, of them too. from Karma by Robert Svoboda detailing a conversation between the Aghori Vimalananda And Robert Svoboda +++ I grow tired of the sages that have a problem with the west. They should be greatfull the west is here otherwise I would be incarnated there and eating the sacred cows and disagreeing with them in general and telling them to get a job. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. Thanks for posting that. I was in Fiuggi, too, and certainly don't remember signing or being presented with any kind of document. But I've run into people from those courses in Fiuggi who claimed otherwise, so I've always wondered whether the document signing thang they talk about happened only in their minds or whether it really happened on some day when I didn't attend a meeting. Your account makes me tend to lean towards the former interpretation. That's not the point. The point is that TM is a trademarked name owned by the TMO/Maharishi. Scozarri doesn't have the right to use it any more. He's not teaching TM the way Maharishi wants it taught now. It seems obvious that your definition of legal revolves around how Maharishi wants things, but I somehow doubt that the legal system's definition of legal is defined quite the same way. :-) Well, that's completely true, and I also have no idea of the actual legal definition. Big shame all around, isn't it, though? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always keep a light-saber handy. --- It is no surprise that Westerners mainly find false gurus. When you have cheated your own guru in the past why should you not be cheated on now? You get what you pay for; that is the Law of Karma. So why is this? Why do most of the people in the West want knowledge from the wrong motive, and get only cheats as gurus? Why? Because most Westerners are asuras at heart. All the celestials, including the asuras, have to go somewhere when they fall down to earth. Many of the asuras--who are very fond of indulging themselves with meat, alcohol and sex, remember--have been born in the West, where they continue to indulge themselves. Occasionally one of them wakes up, a little; but because asuras are egotistical they conclude, as soon as they learn a little, that they know everything. Almost as soon as they learn how to meditate they start calling themselves gurus. But what do they really know of Indian wisdom? Nothing! They are still just probing our spirituality now. They will be learning spiritual things from us for the next 500 years. Even the dog of one of our Rishis could teach them for one hundred years and still have more to teach. Westerners are so far behind us in spirituality that to shine out among them is nothing. It is child's play for our so-called swamis to go abroad and try to impress all the monkeys over there with their so-called knowledge. I can tell you one thing: A real guru will come to the Westerners only when they decide that they are ready for real knowledge, and they invite Shukracharya [rishi and guru of the demons]... ...They won't need to search for him; when they are sincerely ready he will appear. They are his disciples, he is responsible for them. It is a great blessing to be guru or king to a bunch of asuras, because you are in a position to improve them. Unfortunately they tend to fall back into their old habits very easily, since their innate natures cannot change. Even Shukracharya tires of them now and again. I call people asuras when even though they have the desire for sadhana they cannot seem to follow the basic rules of discipline. I am willing to try to help such people out, but most of them are by no means ready for spirituality yet and I grow tired, of them too. from Karma by Robert Svoboda detailing a conversation between the Aghori Vimalananda And Robert Svoboda That comes across to me as spiritually elitist ego chow, but I suppose it could also just be the paradox of Brahman. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That comes across to me as spiritually elitist ego chow, but I suppose it could also just be the paradox of Brahman. I was going to make a similar comment, but couldn't come up with anything nearly as good as spiritually elitist ego chow, so I passed. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- flanegin wrote: What are the techniques that you found are stronger than TM?- and I ask purely out of curiousity, not challenge...Thanks Yeah, I wondered about this, too. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
On Mar 6, 2006, at 9:56 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always keep a light-saber handy. --- "It is no surprise that Westerners mainly find false gurus. When you have cheated your own guru in the past why should you not be cheated on now? You get what you pay for; that is the Law of Karma." "So why is this? Why do most of the people in the West want knowledge from the wrong motive, and get only cheats as gurus?" "Why? Because most Westerners are asuras at heart. All the celestials, including the asuras, have to go somewhere when they fall down to earth. Many of the asuras--who are very fond of indulging themselves with meat, alcohol and sex, remember--have been born in the West, where they continue to indulge themselves. Occasionally one of them wakes up, a little; but because asuras are egotistical they conclude, as soon as they learn a little, that they know everything. Almost as soon as they learn how to meditate they start calling themselves gurus. But what do they really know of Indian wisdom? Nothing! They are still just probing our spirituality now. They will be learning spiritual things from us for the next 500 years. Even the dog of one of our Rishis could teach them for one hundred years and still have more to teach. Westerners are so far behind us in spirituality that to shine out among them is nothing. It is child's play for our so-called swamis to go abroad and try to impress all the monkeys over there with their so-called knowledge. I can tell you one thing: A real guru will come to the Westerners only when they decide that they are ready for real knowledge, and they invite Shukracharya [rishi and guru of the demons]... ...They won't need to search for him; when they are sincerely ready he will appear. They are his disciples, he is responsible for them. It is a great blessing to be guru or king to a bunch of asuras, because you are in a position to improve them. Unfortunately they tend to fall back into their old habits very easily, since their innate natures cannot change. Even Shukracharya tires of them now and again. I call people asuras when even though they have the desire for sadhana they cannot seem to follow the basic rules of discipline. I am willing to try to help such people out, but most of them are by no means ready for spirituality yet and I grow tired, of them too." from "Karma" by Robert Svoboda detailing a conversation between the Aghori Vimalananda And Robert Svoboda That comes across to me as spiritually elitist ego chow, but I suppose it could also just be the paradox of Brahman. If you're not familiar with "Vimalananda" and his approach via Svoboda's rendering of his teachings, it might just seem bizarre. My guess is for most orthodox TMers / students of meditation, reading "Aghora" (the first work he wrote) will be a total mind-f*ck as it destroys some cherished illusions. It's one of the few books I've ever had to put down because I was laughing so hard. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
In a message dated 3/5/06 9:30:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah , but did he look bored when namasting back?Or was it just a half or quarter Namaste? You know, kinda like Hitler giving back the "heil" when underlings Heil Hitlered him...underlings would give it the full-on straight-arm 45 degree salute from the soldier but Hitler would just kinda raise his arm half-way, bent at the wrist... ROFLMAO! Shemp I was thinking exactly of that,the half hearted Sieg Heil Hitler used to do in return. The limp wrist sieg! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: That comes across to me as spiritually elitist ego chow, but I suppose it could also just be the paradox of Brahman. I was going to make a similar comment, but couldn't come up with anything nearly as good as spiritually elitist ego chow, so I passed. :-) My completely transcended ego passes along its thanks and appreciation for your compliment. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
I distinctly remember Jerry addressing the assembly in the Fuiggi Fonte theatre in '1972' asking us to 'swear' loyalty to TM and MMY. As I recall it was an oral agreement given and received en mass amongst us all as a group! BillyG. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. Thanks for posting that. I was in Fiuggi, too, and certainly don't remember signing or being presented with any kind of document. But I've run into people from those courses in Fiuggi who claimed otherwise, so I've always wondered whether the document signing thang they talk about happened only in their minds or whether it really happened on some day when I didn't attend a meeting. Your account makes me tend to lean towards the former interpretation. That's not the point. The point is that TM is a trademarked name owned by the TMO/Maharishi. Scozarri doesn't have the right to use it any more. He's not teaching TM the way Maharishi wants it taught now. It seems obvious that your definition of legal revolves around how Maharishi wants things, but I somehow doubt that the legal system's definition of legal is defined quite the same way. :-) Well, that's completely true, and I also have no idea of the actual legal definition. Big shame all around, isn't it, though? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
**Another take below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always keep a light-saber handy. --- It is no surprise that Westerners mainly find false gurus. When you have cheated your own guru in the past why should you not be cheated on now? You get what you pay for; that is the Law of Karma. So why is this? Why do most of the people in the West want knowledge from the wrong motive, and get only cheats as gurus? Why? Because most Westerners are asuras at heart. All the celestials, including the asuras, have to go somewhere when they fall down to earth. Many of the asuras--who are very fond of indulging themselves with meat, alcohol and sex, remember--have been born in the West, where they continue to indulge themselves. Occasionally one of them wakes up, a little; but because asuras are egotistical they conclude, as soon as they learn a little, that they know everything. Almost as soon as they learn how to meditate they start calling themselves gurus. But what do they really know of Indian wisdom? Nothing! They are still just probing our spirituality now. They will be learning spiritual things from us for the next 500 years. Even the dog of one of our Rishis could teach them for one hundred years and still have more to teach. Westerners are so far behind us in spirituality that to shine out among them is nothing. It is child's play for our so-called swamis to go abroad and try to impress all the monkeys over there with their so-called knowledge. I can tell you one thing: A real guru will come to the Westerners only when they decide that they are ready for real knowledge, and they invite Shukracharya [rishi and guru of the demons]... ...They won't need to search for him; when they are sincerely ready he will appear. They are his disciples, he is responsible for them. It is a great blessing to be guru or king to a bunch of asuras, because you are in a position to improve them. Unfortunately they tend to fall back into their old habits very easily, since their innate natures cannot change. Even Shukracharya tires of them now and again. I call people asuras when even though they have the desire for sadhana they cannot seem to follow the basic rules of discipline. I am willing to try to help such people out, but most of them are by no means ready for spirituality yet and I grow tired, of them too. from Karma by Robert Svoboda detailing a conversation between the Aghori Vimalananda And Robert Svoboda **END** Another take on Westerners seeking Indian wisdom was expressed more than once by Nisargadatta in the following way. He said that the Westerners had been soldiers in Lord Rama's monkey army; and that as their reward in assisting Rama in rescuing Sita they were reincarnated in the West where they could easily indulge their monkey desires -- lots of food, sex, and fighting. He said, however, that when the monkeys begin to tire of their reward, they come back to India in search of Rama. Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred to speak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westerners were more sincere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] RxR On When Life BEGINS.......
The Catholic Priest will say that Life begins at the moment of Conception.The Presbytarian will say that Life Begins at the moment of live Birth.The RABBI says that Life Begins the moment all thekids have left home andthe dog dies.I say Life never had a beginning.that we are all a part of tremendous force that is eternal.Like bulbs in a string of Christmas Tree Lights..we are just PART OF THE FLOWof life that we choose to call God.http://soundclick.com/mrroboto http://soundclick.com/rxrRickReed Home Away From Home http://murphylakes.com http://soundclick.com/rxr http://soundclick.com/mrroboto http://murphylakes.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybillshepherd4secretaryofstud http://soundclick.com/mrroboto http://soundclick.com/rxr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stonertimes-rxr Rick Reed Home Away From Home: http://murphylakes.com Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Death Would Be Too Kind Too Brief
President of the United STUDS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Death Would Be Too Kind /BriefYesterday is like a cancelled Check.TomoRRow NEVER comes.It is all right Now !!!Live today as though it were your last .You never know...a house might fall on you TOO !!!Rick REEDRxRhttp://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/downonthebrick/detail?.dir=/c2eb.dnm=6192re2.jpg.src="">RxR Home Away From Home http://murphylakes.com RxR Vacation Home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/myrtle_beach_4_rick_reed_r http://soundclick.com/mrroboto http://soundclick.com/rxr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stonertimes-rxr Rick Reed Home Away From Home: http://murphylakes.com Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] ***President Rick REED's Womens Rights Bill 2005
Our future President of the UnitedStates of America, Rick REED, is a Womanizer INDEED!!! His greatest and most heartfelt issue in the growth of America dealsspecifically with Women's Rights as it should be. Somebody's GOT to do it! It is a continueing struggle dateing back tothe days when Women first burned their bras so that on a certain day, on acertain DATE on man's calendar, they would beallowed to vote. Women of America, in this Nation, still have abattle ahead in continueing towards Fullfillment ofUltimate Rights for Women in this nation. And Rick REED will be the Best Voice in this arena, especially beinga Womanizer and knowing the NEED from the heart heart heart !!! In this great day and age, in this New Millenium, Women's Rightsgoes Way Beyond Success as far as being a certain AGE, acertain DATE on man's calendar, for the Most Important Things thathappen to us inour lives, do NOT occur on man's calendar, but onGOD's Calander.That day when the EGG is determined to BE a Woman. A Woman's Rights begins then!!! SHE has the right to live, to grow up,and maybe BE a little Bit Weird as Hell. like Rick and uponreaching a certain age, a certain date on man's calendar, BEable to follow in President Rick REED's footsteps, and run for office as President of The United Statesof America!!Vote Rick REED !!! Vote Women's Rights!!!Vote ALL Women's Rights!! VOTE PRO LIFE!!!H!You see where your ONE vote got you in the Presidential election between Gore and Bush...FLORIDA???!!All that debate and indecision in FLorida...for a month?The world's shortest knock-knock joke:"Knock, Knock!"..."Who's There?"..."President!"..."President Who???"!!!__Thoughts are things, so have good thoughts aseverything that ever happened all began as a simple yetsmart thought.Forward this invitation to everyone youknow if youbeleive that our forefathers died for something...for ourcontinuedfreedom , particularly our freedom to expressourselves,especially in this new day and age of global internet wherethat freedom isgreatly aborted daily.INTOLERANCE IS JUST IGNORANCE TO SUCH A GREAT MEASURE THAT IT AMOUNTS TO INNOCENCE.-Get your free @Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com!http://www.elvis.comWHEN GOD gifted you with the ability to dream, HE also gifted you with the POWER to make any dream come true, so NEVER give up; I WON'T..Rick REED -IF AT FIRST you don't succeed..so much for SKYDIVING.Rick REED, RxR Ihttp://soundclick.com/bands/7/rxr.htm http://soundclick.com/bands/mrroboto.htmhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/stonertimes-rxrRick REED's Home away from Home http://murphylakes.com Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less http://soundclick.com/rxr http://soundclick.com/mrroboto http://murphylakes.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybillshepherd4secretaryofstud http://soundclick.com/mrroboto http://soundclick.com/rxr http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stonertimes-rxr Rick Reed Home Away From Home: http://murphylakes.com Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reincarnation of Elvis???
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: http://www.idolonfox.com/contestants/katharine_mcphee/ Not possible. Everyone who's seen Bubba Ho-Tep knows that Elvis is alive and well, living in an old folks' home in Texas, and fighting evil mummies there along with JFK, who lives in the same rest home. Er, Elvis and JFK died in the end... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock jedi_spock@ wrote: The Facts are slightly different. Over 90% of the indian population were illiterate back then. All the VedaShalas, the traditional Vedic Schools were open only to Brahmins and other elite classes. I'm not terribly interested in Jason's latest India- bash, but since he's brought up the category of Strange and interesting facts about literacy, what country on the planet, in 1990, had the *highest* percentage of literacy among its population on the planet? Hint: the same country, today, has one of the lowest percentages of literacy. You guessed it...Iraq. From the most literate nation on the planet under Saddam Hussein pre-GWI to one of the least literate, under US rule, post-GWII. Fascinating, eh? Amazing what a decade or two of war and its aftermath under a power- mad psychopath will do to a place. Iraq, under Hussein, steadily deteriorated almost from the start of his reign. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reincarnation of Elvis???
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: http://www.idolonfox.com/contestants/katharine_mcphee/ Not possible. Everyone who's seen Bubba Ho-Tep knows that Elvis is alive and well, living in an old folks' home in Texas, and fighting evil mummies there along with JFK, who lives in the same rest home. Er, Elvis and JFK died in the end... Yeah, right...that's what they said about them both before, too... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
On Mar 6, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Marek Reavis wrote:Another take on Westerners seeking Indian wisdom was expressed more than once by Nisargadatta in the following way. He said that the Westerners had been soldiers in Lord Rama's monkey army; and that as their reward in assisting Rama in rescuing Sita they were reincarnated in the West where they could easily indulge their monkey desires -- lots of food, sex, and fighting. He said, however, that when the monkeys begin to tire of their reward, they come back to India in search of Rama. Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred to speak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westerners were more sincere. Vimalananda said they thing he liked best about America was the rollercoasters. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
on 3/5/06 11:38 PM, Marek Reavis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. I was made a teacher in Estes Park, December, 1970, and we signed one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's it in a nutshell. There was an agreement that a TM teacher was one for life and could teach TM, no conditions attached. What people should really consider doing is *everyone* who can start teaching again, and letting the TMO know. They can't go after everybody. Sal Didn't the TM teacher also pledge loyalty to MMY and teh organization he set up to teach TM? On Mar 5, 2006, at 7:22 AM, tmforlife108 wrote: If someone gets a masters in education, pays for their education themselves, the university has no right to try and take the degree back 30 years later! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff no_reply@ wrote: That's not the point. The point is... The point seems to me to be that *all* of this garbage is an attempt, before Maharishi dies, to clean up the TM movement's shoddy record-keeping and business practices and establish clear legal ownership of the TM technique and their ability to sell it in perpetuity. The whole recert thang was pretty obviously an attempt to get signed legal documents from teachers, and to declare anyone who did *not* sign new legal documents (and pay several thousand dollars and agree to quit their jobs and work full time for the TMO in the process) persona non grata, no longer part of or representatives of the TM movement. This lawsuit is an extension of the same thing. It's an attempt to forestall the inevitable factionalization of a spiritual movement that happens when its leader dies. IMO none of it has anything to do with teaching TM or the organization's professed spiritual goals; it's purely about estab- lishing legal control over the corporation's assets, so as to prevent any group of former TM teachers from either making a claim against them, or going off and teaching on their own, without paying obeisance (and, of course, money) to the official parent org. I have trouble imagining any kind of claim former TM teachers could make against the TMO's assets, but other than that, I think this analysis is rather obviously accurate. However, it's incomplete. Shemp keeps posting the missing piece: Maharishi: What I have taught, because it has its eternal authenticity in the vedic literature and you should know that, how many? 30 - 40 thousand teachers of TM I have trained and many of them have gone on their own and they may not call it Maharishi's TM but they are teaching it in some different name here and there. So there's a lot of these, artificial things are going on, doesn't matter, as long as the man is getting something useful to make his life better, we are satisfied. How you feel about it probably has a lot to do with how you feel about *why* one teaches meditation in the first place. If part of you still remembers why most of us signed up as teachers in the first place -- to help people -- you're probably shocked and saddened by the spectacle of the TM movement being turned into a corporation that sues the people who built it and seems only interested in money and control over its employees. Or, you could take seriously what I just quoted above and realize that MMY is giving his blessing to those who want to teach independently of the organization. He wants to keep control over the TMO's employees, as any CEO would, but you don't have to be an employee to teach TM as long as you don't pretend you *are* an employee--which means, in this case, picking a different name for what you're teaching. As someone pointed out, there doesn't seem to be any legal reason why you can't say you were trained to teach meditation by MMY, and you're teaching what he taught you to teach, except that because you aren't working for the TMO, you can't use the TM trademark. If you value the TM technique and think it helps people, you're free to continue doing what you signed up to do in the first place. It seems to me the only reason you'd have for being shocked and saddened is that you don't get to promote, and your students don't get to take advantage of, a lot of the other stuff the TMO offers. But that would mean you'd have to value that other stuff equally with the TM technique. If you don't, what's the problem? You don't get to have the legitimacy of the TMO behind you, but most who are teaching independently are doing so because they don't think the TMO any longer *has* legitimacy. You can't have it both ways. You *do* have to figure out a way to promote what you're teaching so it's attractive to prospective students without the TM name. You need to exercise some ingenuity, perhaps get together with some other independent teachers and establish your own brand. In a way, it's like proprietary vs. generic drugs. Seems to me MMY is saying, in essence, that the TM patent claim has expired (or whatever the legal term is). Drug companies that developed a drug and trademarked it can still sell that drug under the proprietary name once the patent has expired, but others are free to produce and market it under other names; they just can't take advantage of the original drug company's marketing, they have to develop their own. I suspect that one of the major goals, if not *the* goal, of this lawsuit is to make all this explicit. So far, everybody has been focusing on what it will mean independent teachers *cannot* do, but it should also help establish what they *can* do. And the restrictions don't appear to be such that they'll prevent TM from being taught outside the TMO. You can
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm not terribly interested in Jason's latest India- bash, but since he's brought up the category of Strange and interesting facts about literacy, what country on the planet, in 1990, had the *highest* percentage of literacy among its population on the planet? Hint: the same country, today, has one of the lowest percentages of literacy. You guessed it...Iraq. From the most literate nation on the planet under Saddam Hussein pre-GWI Just curious. So the literacy rate went from the high 90s to maybe low 40's or 50's in 15 or so years? Normal death rates are less than 1% a year in literate countries -- so if ALL formal and informal education stopped immediately (a hard assertion to swallow), one might reasonably estimate the literacy rate fell to low 80's. So, what happened to all those other 30-40% reading and writin' Iraquis? Did the US invaders shoot them all? Or did they hook the readers up to a giant brain vacuum and suck the literacy skills right out of them? Has Art Bell or the National Inquirer got their hands on this scoop yet? I'm not sure exactly how a literacy rate is arrived at on a practical basis, especially in a country as unsettled as Iraq is now, but UNESCO and other official figures do show a significant drop. If the high figures came from Saddam's government, it's possible they were exaggerated. However, almost 50 percent of Iraq's population is under 15 years old. That means half its people were educated under the sanctions regime, which really did cripple its educational system (among others). Plus which, there has been a huge exodus from Iraq of educated families in recent years. Barry likes to, er, simplify things to make his putdowns, and he's never been too careful about his facts, but the basic point, that Iraq has lost ground with regard to literacy after having made considerable progress under Saddam, is valid. Well,I'm not sure how much was due to Saddam, anyway. He took power in the late 70's and attempted to invade Iran in 1980, and the country was at war or suffering the aftermath of a war, ever since. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/5/06 11:08:32 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Yeah, but it's so much more fun to create Rajas. I mean, don't you have fantasies of dressing up in a robe and crown and going out in public? :) Sal Actually,I did have those fantasies..when I was about 4 years old. Hehehehe, Is it true that recerts have to bow before the Rajas? What if you refused to bow before them? I think I might be more inclined to bend over and moon them myself. Is it true that Free Mason inductees are expected to give each other secret handshakes? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
In a message dated 3/6/06 10:06:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on 3/5/06 11:38 PM, Marek Reavis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document.I was made a teacher in Estes Park, December, 1970, and we signed one. I was made an initiator also in June 1972 in Fiuggi and we never signed anything. We were read a long "vow", so to speak, by Jerry, to agree to teach TM only within the confines of the TM movement as I recall. I don't remember if the vow was too Maharishi or to the laws of Nature or just what. I had been rounding for 9 months and didn't have an attorney to explain to me what I was verbally agreeing to and never saw it in writing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sanskrit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I'm not terribly interested in Jason's latest India- bash, but since he's brought up the category of Strange and interesting facts about literacy, what country on the planet, in 1990, had the *highest* percentage of literacy among its population on the planet? Hint: the same country, today, has one of the lowest percentages of literacy. You guessed it...Iraq. From the most literate nation on the planet under Saddam Hussein pre-GWI Just curious. So the literacy rate went from the high 90s to maybe low 40's or 50's in 15 or so years? Normal death rates are less than 1% a year in literate countries -- so if ALL formal and informal education stopped immediately (a hard assertion to swallow), one might reasonably estimate the literacy rate fell to low 80's. So, what happened to all those other 30-40% reading and writin' Iraquis? Did the US invaders shoot them all? Or did they hook the readers up to a giant brain vacuum and suck the literacy skills right out of them? Has Art Bell or the National Inquirer got their hands on this scoop yet? I'm not sure exactly how a literacy rate is arrived at on a practical basis, especially in a country as unsettled as Iraq is now, but UNESCO and other official figures do show a significant drop. If the high figures came from Saddam's government, it's possible they were exaggerated. However, almost 50 percent of Iraq's population is under 15 years old. That means half its people were educated under the sanctions regime, which really did cripple its educational system (among others). Plus which, there has been a huge exodus from Iraq of educated families in recent years. Barry likes to, er, simplify things to make his putdowns, and he's never been too careful about his facts, but the basic point, that Iraq has lost ground with regard to literacy after having made considerable progress under Saddam, is valid. Well,I'm not sure how much was due to Saddam, anyway. He took power in the late 70's and attempted to invade Iran in 1980, and the country was at war or suffering the aftermath of a war, ever since. True, but under Saddam women had the right to get an education. A lot of the literacy gain occurred among women. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
Sounds like Aghori Vimalananda had a bit of an ego too. on 3/6/06 7:02 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always keep a light-saber handy. --- It is no surprise that Westerners mainly find false gurus. When you have cheated your own guru in the past why should you not be cheated on now? You get what you pay for; that is the Law of Karma. So why is this? Why do most of the people in the West want knowledge from the wrong motive, and get only cheats as gurus? Why? Because most Westerners are asuras at heart. All the celestials, including the asuras, have to go somewhere when they fall down to earth. Many of the asuras--who are very fond of indulging themselves with meat, alcohol and sex, remember--have been born in the West, where they continue to indulge themselves. Occasionally one of them wakes up, a little; but because asuras are egotistical they conclude, as soon as they learn a little, that they know everything. Almost as soon as they learn how to meditate they start calling themselves gurus. But what do they really know of Indian wisdom? Nothing! They are still just probing our spirituality now. They will be learning spiritual things from us for the next 500 years. Even the dog of one of our Rishis could teach them for one hundred years and still have more to teach. Westerners are so far behind us in spirituality that to shine out among them is nothing. It is child's play for our so-called swamis to go abroad and try to impress all the monkeys over there with their so-called knowledge. I can tell you one thing: A real guru will come to the Westerners only when they decide that they are ready for real knowledge, and they invite Shukracharya [rishi and guru of the demons]... ...They won't need to search for him; when they are sincerely ready he will appear. They are his disciples, he is responsible for them. It is a great blessing to be guru or king to a bunch of asuras, because you are in a position to improve them. Unfortunately they tend to fall back into their old habits very easily, since their innate natures cannot change. Even Shukracharya tires of them now and again. I call people asuras when even though they have the desire for sadhana they cannot seem to follow the basic rules of discipline. I am willing to try to help such people out, but most of them are by no means ready for spirituality yet and I grow tired, of them too. from Karma by Robert Svoboda detailing a conversation between the Aghori Vimalananda And Robert Svoboda To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a myth. They are all about equal difficulty as far as learning goes, or else kids born in the languages that are supposed to be easier would start speaking at earlier ages, which of course they don't. (Of course, the elitist response to that would be that they just have dumber kids in those countries.) Sal LInguists DO make distinctions for adults, however. On Mar 5, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Nelson wrote: You should be proud of yourself as even growing up with English, I would say it must be one of the more difficult ones to learn. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: What conditions were attached? Sal On Mar 5, 2006, at 12:49 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: With the exception of maybe the first 40 or 50 TM teachers taught in the early '60s, I've never, EVER heard of a TM teacher that was told when MMY made him a teacher that he could teach TM no conditions attached. I got some written rules in my hand when I became a TM-Teacher, how to behave and one of the rules where - that we should not turn people away if they did not have the money. We should teach everybody who wanted to learn TM even if they could not pay. Ingegerd When and where was this? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: That's a myth. They are all about equal difficulty as far as learning goes, or else kids born in the languages that are supposed to be easier would start speaking at earlier ages, which of course they don't. (Of course, the elitist response to that would be that they just have dumber kids in those countries.) I don't think it's a matter of dumb and dumber; some languages really are harder for a non-native speaker to learn because they are less internally consistent in terms of grammar and syntax and usage. According to many people I've met who, late in life, became multilingual in many languages, English was one of the toughest to master. Japanese and English are considered hard by everyone else, and Most hard by each other, respectively, or so I have heard. On Mar 5, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Nelson wrote: You should be proud of yourself as even growing up with English, I would say it must be one of the more difficult ones to learn. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Remember Shakti: Saturday Night in Bombay DVD
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Remember Shakti: Saturday Night in Bombay DVD Would love to see the clip. Netflix doesnt have the DVD. Where did you get it? on 3/6/06 7:29 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you can find a copy of this DVD anywhere, grab it--fantastic! I can post a video clip if anyone is interested. The blip below says it all. Remember Shakti: Saturday Night in Bombay [LIVE] Guitarist McLaughlin and tabla drummer Zakir Hussain first joined together as Shakti in 1975 to fuse together the rhythmic and improvisational energies of jazz and the classical music of northern India. Regrouping in the late '90s, the two have since raised the level of the synthesis significantly in a quartet with the extraordinary young mandolin player U. Shrinivas and percussionist V. Selvaganesh. These recordings come from December 2000, when Remember Shakti was playing concerts in Bombay at the end of a world tour. It's clearly the occasion for celebration, with the group expanding to include several guests, but it's distinguished by the same quality that has graced their live performances and the previous CD, The Believer http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B4XQ96/$%7B0%7D : a hypnotic luminosity that enfolds flights of extraordinary virtuosity and sustained dialogue into a tranquil whole. That mood is further enhanced here by the setting, the layered polyrhythms of multiple drummers, and the singing of Shankar Mahadevan. The wedding of East and West is most apparent in McLaughlin's sprightly Luki, with the guitarist's harmonies specifically invoking jazz. Shringar, nearly 27 minutes long, is played by a quartet, with its composer Shiv Kumar Sharma on santur, a Persian zither. Beginning in a sustained meditative stillness, it eventually builds to one of McLaughlin's most brilliant solos. As they have in the past, McLaughlin and Hussain again give new meaning and possibilities to the idea of world music. --Stuart Broomer To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
He's a good read, esp. if you're tired of the mamby-pamby new age schlock that passes as eastern wisdom these days. There's probably something in Vimalananda to upset just abut anyone. But Aghori tantrics aren't for everyone. On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Rick Archer wrote: Sounds like Aghori Vimalananda had a bit of an ego too. on 3/6/06 7:02 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Always keep a light-saber handy. --- It is no surprise that Westerners mainly find false gurus. When you have cheated your own guru in the past why should you not be cheated on now? You get what you pay for; that is the Law of Karma. So why is this? Why do most of the people in the West want knowledge from the wrong motive, and get only cheats as gurus? Why? Because most Westerners are asuras at heart. All the celestials, including the asuras, have to go somewhere when they fall down to earth. Many of the asuras--who are very fond of indulging themselves with meat, alcohol and sex, remember--have been born in the West, where they continue to indulge themselves. Occasionally one of them wakes up, a little; but because asuras are egotistical they conclude, as soon as they learn a little, that they know everything. Almost as soon as they learn how to meditate they start calling themselves gurus. But what do they really know of Indian wisdom? Nothing! They are still just probing our spirituality now. They will be learning spiritual things from us for the next 500 years. Even the dog of one of our Rishis could teach them for one hundred years and still have more to teach. Westerners are so far behind us in spirituality that to shine out among them is nothing. It is child's play for our so-called swamis to go abroad and try to impress all the monkeys over there with their so-called knowledge. I can tell you one thing: A real guru will come to the Westerners only when they decide that they are ready for real knowledge, and they invite Shukracharya [rishi and guru of the demons]... ...They won't need to search for him; when they are sincerely ready he will appear. They are his disciples, he is responsible for them. It is a great blessing to be guru or king to a bunch of asuras, because you are in a position to improve them. Unfortunately they tend to fall back into their old habits very easily, since their innate natures cannot change. Even Shukracharya tires of them now and again. I call people asuras when even though they have the desire for sadhana they cannot seem to follow the basic rules of discipline. I am willing to try to help such people out, but most of them are by no means ready for spirituality yet and I grow tired, of them too. from Karma by Robert Svoboda detailing a conversation between the Aghori Vimalananda And Robert Svoboda To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson
nelsonriddle2001@
wrote:
Wouldn't learning a second language as an adult be more
difficult
with already having one to trip over?
I never noticed English being difficult but I would think
that
looking at it from the outside, it would be a challenge.
I would not like to have to learn Russian or Chineese for
example. N.
Based on my experience, Russian is probably a far
easier language to learn than English. Talk about
consistent...once you've learned the alphabet
(which is just Greek with a few extra letters)
and the basic verb endings and inflected noun
endings, it's pretty much a snap. Or was. It
was a long time ago that I studied Russian.
+++ Would you think that one learning Russian could eventually
pronounce it well enough to pass as a native?
One person that I met (Polish native) said there were some words
in their language that would seperate non natives from natives. N.
That's true with anylanguage, to some extent. However, some people
learn to pronounce things betterthan others, and there are special
computerized training systems that may well be able to train at least
some people to sound exactly like a native.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like Aghori Vimalananda had a bit of an ego too. Unless, as Vaj suggests, all of this was tongue in cheek, a joke. I'm unconvinced that's the case, but I dunno. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like Aghori Vimalananda had a bit of an ego too. Unless, as Vaj suggests, all of this was tongue in cheek, a joke. I'm unconvinced that's the case, but I dunno. My take is he was serious about Asuras incarnating in the west and only part of it is tongue in cheek--of course they are incarnating everywhere. And the part about people have a certain karma that draws them to phony gurus? I've not only seen that happen many times, I've seen people go like steel to the magnet of a phony guru--go through a nasty breakup with that guru, and then go right on to another! Even Svoboda apparently had a hard time sometimes knowing what was symbolic and what was not in Vimalananda's teaching. Sometimes ambiguous or moving or no reference points makes for a good teaching device--and certainly Vimalananda pulled the rug out from under many an ego.Did you ever hear the story about how Vasant Lad met him? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
In a message dated 3/6/06 10:16:08 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Or, you could take seriously what I just quoted aboveand realize that MMY is giving his blessing to thosewho want to teach independently of the organization.He wants to keep control over the TMO's employees, asany CEO would, but you don't have to be an employeeto teach TM as long as you don't pretend you *are*an employee--which means, in this case, picking adifferent name for what you're teaching. I have to agree with this assessment. The former national leader of Pakistan for the TMOlives in Houston and teaches TM how he was taught to teach in Pakistan. The TMO legal department tried to make him stop but they both agreed it was ok as long as he didn't call it TM. So he just calls it Natures meditation. He also teaches the Sidhis since he was a Sidhi's Administrator in Pakistan. I don't think the TMO has given him any more grief since they came to that agreement not to use the words TM. And of Course Sri Sri Ravi Shankar teaches TM under the name Sahaja Samadhi. I haven't heard of any big law suites to stop him. As I understand it Ravi wanted to teach his Sudarshana Kriya within the TM movement and M said "no" but encouraged him to teach it on his own. I don't know if there was any agreement about teaching TM in Ravi's movement but since he calls it Sahaja samadhi and doesn't use the trade mark name, it sounds like the same deal was cut as above. I really don't think M cares one way or the other if you teach TM on your own as long as you don't infringe upon his movement and trade mark. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
In a message dated 3/6/06 10:27:11 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I got some written rules in my hand when I became a TM-Teacher, how to behave and one of the rules where - that we should not turn people away if they did not have the money. We should teach everybody who wanted to learn TM even if they could not pay. Ingegerd I was not given this rule in writing but Jerry did say we never turn somebody away because they lack the funds to start. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's a good read, esp. if you're tired of the mamby-pamby new age schlock that passes as eastern wisdom these days. There's probably something in Vimalananda to upset just abut anyone. But Aghori tantrics aren't for everyone. Yeah, he comes across as a jerk to me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:56 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's a good read, esp. if you're tired of the mamby-pamby new age schlock that passes as "eastern wisdom" these days. There's probably something in Vimalananda to upset just abut anyone. But Aghori tantrics aren't for everyone. Yeah, he comes across as a jerk to me. I don't know how valuable it is to judge a person based on a couple of paragraphs.Suffice to say, if you had a certain way you pre-conceived how a "good" guru should be, my guess is, he would shatter that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
**Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: **SNIP** Maharishi: What I have taught, because it has its eternal authenticity in the vedic literature and you should know that, how many? 30 - 40 thousand teachers of TM I have trained and many of them have gone on their own and they may not call it Maharishi's TM but they are teaching it in some different name here and there. So there's a lot of these, artificial things are going on, doesn't matter, as long as the man is getting something useful to make his life better, we are satisfied. **SNIP** Or, you could take seriously what I just quoted above and realize that MMY is giving his blessing to those who want to teach independently of the organization. He wants to keep control over the TMO's employees, as any CEO would, but you don't have to be an employee to teach TM as long as you don't pretend you *are* an employee--which means, in this case, picking a different name for what you're teaching. As someone pointed out, there doesn't seem to be any legal reason why you can't say you were trained to teach meditation by MMY, and you're teaching what he taught you to teach, except that because you aren't working for the TMO, you can't use the TM trademark. If you value the TM technique and think it helps people, you're free to continue doing what you signed up to do in the first place. It seems to me the only reason you'd have for being shocked and saddened is that you don't get to promote, and your students don't get to take advantage of, a lot of the other stuff the TMO offers. But that would mean you'd have to value that other stuff equally with the TM technique. If you don't, what's the problem? You don't get to have the legitimacy of the TMO behind you, but most who are teaching independently are doing so because they don't think the TMO any longer *has* legitimacy. You can't have it both ways. You *do* have to figure out a way to promote what you're teaching so it's attractive to prospective students without the TM name. You need to exercise some ingenuity, perhaps get together with some other independent teachers and establish your own brand. In a way, it's like proprietary vs. generic drugs. Seems to me MMY is saying, in essence, that the TM patent claim has expired (or whatever the legal term is). Drug companies that developed a drug and trademarked it can still sell that drug under the proprietary name once the patent has expired, but others are free to produce and market it under other names; they just can't take advantage of the original drug company's marketing, they have to develop their own. I suspect that one of the major goals, if not *the* goal, of this lawsuit is to make all this explicit. So far, everybody has been focusing on what it will mean independent teachers *cannot* do, but it should also help establish what they *can* do. And the restrictions don't appear to be such that they'll prevent TM from being taught outside the TMO. You can look at all this as something being taken away from you, or you can look at it as something being *given* to you. Whatever obligations you may have had to MMY and the TMO have been canceled, and you get to take this precious knowledge--if you consider it as such--and spread it as far and wide as you can. **END** Excellent point (and analysis). If a teacher has something about them that confirms to the potential student that she or he really is an authority of some sort on meditation then they (the potential student) will want to learn from them. If the independent teacher cannot promote his/her teaching as being authorized by Maharishi or the TMO then that means the independent teacher really has to personally radiate more consciousness, more personal authority, than was perhaps necessary in the past. If the teacher doesn't have that real authority then even if they have the ability to successfully pass on the technique at initiation they still won't have that many takers. This actually seems to be a good thing for a truly independent teacher, as Judy points out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: I had an anatomy professor 30+ years ago (pre-med program) who could tell where in the world your ancestry was from by the shape of your skull. I don't know if it was pure luck or not, but he knew exactly where in Eastern Europe my family descended from and he seemed to be able to do this as if it was magic. I have a similar skill that, in my youth, I endeavored to demonstrate often. I can tell where a woman's ancestors were from simply by examining her breasts and judging the size, shape and feel of them. Unfortunately, I was not able to find enough willing subjects to come up with any scientific statistics as to my technique's accuracy, but I can assure you that in the few instances in which the line worked, it was magic every time. :-) :-) :-) A worthy siddhi indeed (somehow I knew that was comming)! Is it protected by trademark, that's the question? :) JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Remember Shakti: Saturday Night in Bombay DVD
I got it used. You can get it here, used or new:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B5RSB1/ref=pd_bbs_null_2/102-4451241-3127353?s=dvdv=glancen=130On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Rick Archer wrote:Would love to see the clip. Netflix doesn’t have the DVD. Where did you get it?on 3/6/06 7:29 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:If you can find a copy of this DVD anywhere, grab it--fantastic! I can post a video clip if anyone is interested. The blip below says it all.Remember Shakti: Saturday Night in Bombay [LIVE] Guitarist McLaughlin and tabla drummer Zakir Hussain first joined together as Shakti in 1975 to fuse together the rhythmic and improvisational energies of jazz and the classical music of northern India. Regrouping in the late '90s, the two have since raised the level of the synthesis significantly in a quartet with the extraordinary young mandolin player U. Shrinivas and percussionist V. Selvaganesh. These recordings come from December 2000, when Remember Shakti was playing concerts in Bombay at the end of a world tour. It's clearly the occasion for celebration, with the group expanding to include several guests, but it's distinguished by the same quality that has graced their live performances and the previous CD, The Believer http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B4XQ96/$%7B0%7D : a hypnotic luminosity that enfolds flights of extraordinary virtuosity and sustained dialogue into a tranquil whole. That mood is further enhanced here by the setting, the layered polyrhythms of multiple drummers, and the singing of Shankar Mahadevan. The wedding of East and West is most apparent in McLaughlin's sprightly "Luki," with the guitarist's harmonies specifically invoking jazz. "Shringar," nearly 27 minutes long, is played by a quartet, with its composer Shiv Kumar Sharma on santur, a Persian zither. Beginning in a sustained meditative stillness, it eventually builds to one of McLaughlin's most brilliant solos. As they have in the past, McLaughlin and Hussain again give new meaning and possibilities to the idea of "world music." --Stuart Broomer To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/6/06 10:16:08 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Or, you could take seriously what I just quoted above and realize that MMY is giving his blessing to those who want to teach independently of the organization. He wants to keep control over the TMO's employees, as any CEO would, but you don't have to be an employee to teach TM as long as you don't pretend you *are* an employee--which means, in this case, picking a different name for what you're teaching. I have to agree with this assessment. The former national leader of Pakistan for the TMO lives in Houston and teaches TM how he was taught to teach in Pakistan. The TMO legal department tried to make him stop but they both agreed it was ok as long as he didn't call it TM. So he just calls it Natures meditation. He also teaches the Sidhis since he was a Sidhi's Administrator in Pakistan. I don't think the TMO has given him any more grief since they came to that agreement not to use the words TM. And of Course Sri Sri Ravi Shankar teaches TM under the name Sahaja Samadhi. I haven't heard of any big law suites to stop him. As I understand it Ravi wanted to teach his Sudarshana Kriya within the TM movement and M said no but encouraged him to teach it on his own. I don't know if there was any agreement about teaching TM in Ravi's movement but since he calls it Sahaja samadhi and doesn't use the trade mark name, it sounds like the same deal was cut as above. I really don't think M cares one way or the other if you teach TM on your own as long as you don't infringe upon his movement and trade mark. As I suggested, the folks who are carping so loudly about this really do seem to want to have it both ways: they think TM teachers should have all the *rights and benefits* of teaching under the auspices of the TMO without any of the *responsibilities* established by the founder of the TMO. They don't seem to take into account that being cut loose from the rights and benefits, such as they may be, also means being relieved of those responsibilities. Not only that, they themselves tend to *disparage* not only the responsibilities but also most of the rights and benefits and agree that the greatest right and benefit by far is the ability to teach the TM technique--which nobody can take away from them, ever. They've got everything they most want, free and clear, released from all the obligations they objected to, and the one thing they *don't* have--certification by the TMO--is the one they value least. On what basis are they complaining?? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list, and then to my amazement it got forwarded/networked all over the world - to meditators' e-mail lists, to other TM-related discussion groups - and even translated into many languages. It generated more encouraging and appreciative e-mail responses to me than any other essay I've written. So here's another go-round (slightly edited to bring it up-to-date). I hope that this essay is of some use to you. It is offered in a spi- rit of love and compassion and humility to the tradition. Respectful comments or questions from readers are very welcome via e-mail, either privately or on this list. Namaste, Michael - TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement By Michael Dean Goodman The issue of the higher ($2500) TM course fee has stirred up a lot of controversy over the years. Something that someone wrote about that finally prodded me into action and I wrote the following re- sponse. I hope it gives you some food for thought: When I started TM in 1970, as an adult I paid $75 to learn (and by a few years later it was $125). It is estimated that prices for many things have almost doubled every decade. In 1970, gasoline cost .29/gallon; today it costs 2.39/gallon - 824% of the original cost. In 1970, a new mid-sized Ford with a big engine cost $2500; today it costs almost $20,000, 800% of the original cost. Applying that same percentage factor, my $75 TM would cost $618 today, simply based on adjustment for inflation. Actually, today TM costs $2500, about 4 times that $618 inflation-adjusted figure. Like [deleted] wrote, I feel that I would have paid a huge amount had I known how effectively the TM program would have brought me back home to my goal. Please be careful in your assumptions here: I'm not talking based on some true belief or some faith in what the future might bring; I'm talking based on my own simple direct personal experience over these years. The time/money/energy that I invested in the TM program was far and away the best investment I've ever made. It's made this life worthwhile. I appreciate that some of you don't feel that way - some feel disappointed, tricked, abused, misled - and I'm sincerely and deeply sorry that you've found yourself on a different road. Even knowing as little as I did before I started, I came up with $75 - which is equivalent to $618 today. Today the TM movement is charging 4 times that, or $2500. Back then, when I learned, would I have come up with 4 times the $75 that I paid (or $300)? After really letting myself get back into the feelings that I had back then, I say yes - I would have. Certainly, because of the greater amount of money involved, I would have slowed down, thought more deeply about my decision, weighed it as more than the cheap lark that I saw it as, but as drawn as I was to have that inner stability and peace that I saw in the TM lecturer, I would have paid the $300. That $300 was 3.75% of an average year's income in 1970 - a little under 2-weeks' wages. It was also 13% of the cost of a new car back then. In my life since then, a lot of income and a lot of cars have come and gone - and a lot of money has been foolishly spent on things that have disappeared or were a mistake to begin with - but what the TM program delivered me to, the Self, goes on forever. In fact, think- ing back over those days when I was initiated and my behaviors and attitude toward TM back then, I feel that I would actually have taken the whole thing a lot more seriously - especially the 3-days of in- struction after initiation, and the regular practice of TM thereafter - if I hadn't thought that it was such a cheap bargain at $75. Today, based on what TM brought me, $2500 is a steal. But I am realis- tic, and I understand through direct personal experiences with friends and counseling clients over these past years that many people don't see that value at first, and that $2500 is a very significant, often daunt- ing, obstacle in some peoples' minds. It is daunting for me to tell people $2500, especially when I assume that they're not serious spir- itual seekers - but merely looking for some relative benefit (like re- ducing their stress level or improving their relationship or making school easier) - and therefore might not see the deeper value that I now see in hindsight. So why does TM cost 4 times more today than it did back in 1970 (af- ter adjusting for inflation)? And, as a corollary: is Maharishi, as some people assert, either a bumbling idiot about practical financial matters, or just overly greedy - or is he a brilliant seer of the fu- ture? Let's investigate. I've thought back over many things I've heard from Maharishi over
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
The more words it takes someone to defend something, the more likely it is that what they're defending is indefensible. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re- post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list, and then to my amazement it got forwarded/networked all over the world - to meditators' e-mail lists, to other TM-related discussion groups - and even translated into many languages. It generated more encouraging and appreciative e-mail responses to me than any other essay I've written. So here's another go-round (slightly edited to bring it up-to- date). I hope that this essay is of some use to you. It is offered in a spi- rit of love and compassion and humility to the tradition. Respectful comments or questions from readers are very welcome via e-mail, either privately or on this list. Namaste, Michael --- -- TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement By Michael Dean Goodman The issue of the higher ($2500) TM course fee has stirred up a lot of controversy over the years. Something that someone wrote about that finally prodded me into action and I wrote the following re- sponse. I hope it gives you some food for thought: When I started TM in 1970, as an adult I paid $75 to learn (and by a few years later it was $125). It is estimated that prices for many things have almost doubled every decade. In 1970, gasoline cost .29/gallon; today it costs 2.39/gallon - 824% of the original cost. In 1970, a new mid-sized Ford with a big engine cost $2500; today it costs almost $20,000, 800% of the original cost. Applying that same percentage factor, my $75 TM would cost $618 today, simply based on adjustment for inflation. Actually, today TM costs $2500, about 4 times that $618 inflation-adjusted figure. Like [deleted] wrote, I feel that I would have paid a huge amount had I known how effectively the TM program would have brought me back home to my goal. Please be careful in your assumptions here: I'm not talking based on some true belief or some faith in what the future might bring; I'm talking based on my own simple direct personal experience over these years. The time/money/energy that I invested in the TM program was far and away the best investment I've ever made. It's made this life worthwhile. I appreciate that some of you don't feel that way - some feel disappointed, tricked, abused, misled - and I'm sincerely and deeply sorry that you've found yourself on a different road. Even knowing as little as I did before I started, I came up with $75 - which is equivalent to $618 today. Today the TM movement is charging 4 times that, or $2500. Back then, when I learned, would I have come up with 4 times the $75 that I paid (or $300)? After really letting myself get back into the feelings that I had back then, I say yes - I would have. Certainly, because of the greater amount of money involved, I would have slowed down, thought more deeply about my decision, weighed it as more than the cheap lark that I saw it as, but as drawn as I was to have that inner stability and peace that I saw in the TM lecturer, I would have paid the $300. That $300 was 3.75% of an average year's income in 1970 - a little under 2-weeks' wages. It was also 13% of the cost of a new car back then. In my life since then, a lot of income and a lot of cars have come and gone - and a lot of money has been foolishly spent on things that have disappeared or were a mistake to begin with - but what the TM program delivered me to, the Self, goes on forever. In fact, think- ing back over those days when I was initiated and my behaviors and attitude toward TM back then, I feel that I would actually have taken the whole thing a lot more seriously - especially the 3-days of in- struction after initiation, and the regular practice of TM thereafter - if I hadn't thought that it was such a cheap bargain at $75. Today, based on what TM brought me, $2500 is a steal. But I am realis- tic, and I understand through direct personal experiences with friends and counseling clients over these past years that many people don't see that value at first, and that $2500 is a very significant, often daunt- ing, obstacle in some peoples' minds. It is daunting for me to tell people $2500, especially when I assume that they're not serious spir- itual seekers - but merely looking for some relative benefit (like re- ducing their stress level or improving their relationship or making school easier) - and therefore might not see the deeper value that I now see in hindsight. So why does TM cost 4 times more today
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more words it takes someone to defend something, the more likely it is that what they're defending is indefensible. Especially to those who find simplistic, black-and- white arguments and shallow, empty aphorisms more appealing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list... Since reposts are in vogue, here's a repost of one of mine, somewhat shorter than Michael's: I entered learn to meditate into Google and checked what it costs to learn, from the first page of sites found that listed prices: 1. $0 -- the techniques are provided on the website. 2. $1.65 to $10.85 -- it's a book, sold through Amazon. 3. $59.90 -- a home study course (Yogananda tradition). 4. $0 -- instruction provided online, MP3s of talks provided for free, week-long in-residence retreats that include room and board for $295. 5. $0 -- instruction provided online. 6. $69 to $169 per day -- in-residence instruction that includes room and board from Shambhala Mountain Center. 7. $11.95 -- book. 8. $0 -- instruction provided online. 9. $4.95 -- book. 10. $10.95 -- book. 11. $0 -- Vipassana tradition, free classes. 12. $0 -- instruction provided online. 13. $2500 -- the first TM-related site, http://www.tm.safire.com/ 14. $0 -- instruction provided online (Australian). 15. $240 -- six-hour course in Stamford, CT. 16. $88 to $122 -- London Buddhist Center (4-week course). Does one stand out from the rest? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
Speaking of free meditation techniques, here is a list of the places Amma's IAM meditation is being taught. This page is updated constantly as new courses are organized. There is sometimes a small fee to cover meals or the instructors travel: http://www.amma.org/events/iam.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of free meditation techniques, here is a list of the places Amma's IAM meditation is being taught. This page is updated constantly as new courses are organized. There is sometimes a small fee to cover meals or the instructors travel: http://www.amma.org/events/iam.html From the Vipassana Meditation Website (http://www.dhamma.org/): The technique of Vipassana Meditation is taught at ten-day residential courses during which participants learn the basics of the method, and practice sufficiently to experience its beneficial results. There are no charges for the courses - not even to cover the cost of food and accommodation. All expenses are met by donations from people who, having completed a course and experienced the benefits of Vipassana, wish to give others the opportunity to also benefit. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff no_reply@ wrote: That's not the point. The point is... The point seems to me to be that *all* of this garbage is an attempt, before Maharishi dies, to clean up the TM movement's shoddy record-keeping and business practices and establish clear legal ownership of the TM technique and their ability to sell it in perpetuity. The whole recert thang was pretty obviously an attempt to get signed legal documents from teachers, and to declare anyone who did *not* sign new legal documents (and pay several thousand dollars and agree to quit their jobs and work full time for the TMO in the process) persona non grata, no longer part of or representatives of the TM movement. This lawsuit is an extension of the same thing. It's an attempt to forestall the inevitable factionalization of a spiritual movement that happens when its leader dies. IMO none of it has anything to do with teaching TM or the organization's professed spiritual goals; it's purely about estab- lishing legal control over the corporation's assets, so as to prevent any group of former TM teachers from either making a claim against them, or going off and teaching on their own, without paying obeisance (and, of course, money) to the official parent org. I have trouble imagining any kind of claim former TM teachers could make against the TMO's assets, but other than that, I think this analysis is rather obviously accurate. However, it's incomplete. Shemp keeps posting the missing piece: Maharishi: What I have taught, because it has its eternal authenticity in the vedic literature and you should know that, how many? 30 - 40 thousand teachers of TM I have trained and many of them have gone on their own and they may not call it Maharishi's TM but they are teaching it in some different name here and there. So there's a lot of these, artificial things are going on, doesn't matter, as long as the man is getting something useful to make his life better, we are satisfied. How you feel about it probably has a lot to do with how you feel about *why* one teaches meditation in the first place. If part of you still remembers why most of us signed up as teachers in the first place -- to help people -- you're probably shocked and saddened by the spectacle of the TM movement being turned into a corporation that sues the people who built it and seems only interested in money and control over its employees. Or, you could take seriously what I just quoted above and realize that MMY is giving his blessing to those who want to teach independently of the organization. He wants to keep control over the TMO's employees, as any CEO would, but you don't have to be an employee to teach TM as long as you don't pretend you *are* an employee--which means, in this case, picking a different name for what you're teaching. As someone pointed out, there doesn't seem to be any legal reason why you can't say you were trained to teach meditation by MMY, and you're teaching what he taught you to teach, except that because you aren't working for the TMO, you can't use the TM trademark. If you value the TM technique and think it helps people, you're free to continue doing what you signed up to do in the first place. It seems to me the only reason you'd have for being shocked and saddened is that you don't get to promote, and your students don't get to take advantage of, a lot of the other stuff the TMO offers. But that would mean you'd have to value that other stuff equally with the TM technique. If you don't, what's the problem? You don't get to have the legitimacy of the TMO behind you, but most who are teaching independently are doing so because they don't think the TMO any longer *has* legitimacy. You can't have it both ways. You *do* have to figure out a way to promote what you're teaching so it's attractive to prospective students without the TM name. You need to exercise some ingenuity, perhaps get together with some other independent teachers and establish your own brand. In a way, it's like proprietary vs. generic drugs. Seems to me MMY is saying, in essence, that the TM patent claim has expired (or whatever the legal term is). Drug companies that developed a drug and trademarked it can still sell that drug under the proprietary name once the patent has expired, but others are free to produce and market it under other names; they just can't take advantage of the original drug company's marketing, they have to develop their own. I suspect that one of the major goals, if not *the* goal, of this lawsuit is to make all this explicit. So far, everybody has been focusing on what it will mean independent
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
on 3/6/06 12:59 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of free meditation techniques, here is a list of the places Amma's IAM meditation is being taught. This page is updated constantly as new courses are organized. There is sometimes a small fee to cover meals or the instructors travel: http://www.amma.org/events/iam.html From the Vipassana Meditation Website (http://www.dhamma.org/): The technique of Vipassana Meditation is taught at ten-day residential courses during which participants learn the basics of the method, and practice sufficiently to experience its beneficial results. There are no charges for the courses - not even to cover the cost of food and accommodation. All expenses are met by donations from people who, having completed a course and experienced the benefits of Vipassana, wish to give others the opportunity to also benefit. Cool. I don't know how the Vipassana people feel about it, but Amma is adamant that money should not be charged for meditation instruction - even in a corporate setting. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
Think I'll wait for the Readers Digest condensed version. :-) On Mar 6, 2006, at 1:19 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: The more words it takes someone to defend something, the more likely it is that what they're defending is indefensible. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re- post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list, and then to my amazement it got forwarded/networked all over the world - to meditators' e-mail lists, to other TM-related discussion groups - and even translated into many languages. It generated more encouraging and appreciative e-mail responses to me than any other essay I've written. So here's another go-round (slightly edited to bring it up-to- date). I hope that this essay is of some use to you. It is offered in a spi- rit of love and compassion and humility to the tradition. Respectful comments or questions from readers are very welcome via e-mail, either privately or on this list. Namaste, Michael --- -- TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement By Michael Dean Goodman The issue of the higher ($2500) TM course fee has stirred up a lot of controversy over the years. Something that someone wrote about that finally prodded me into action and I wrote the following re- sponse. I hope it gives you some food for thought: When I started TM in 1970, as an adult I paid $75 to learn (and by a few years later it was $125). It is estimated that prices for many things have almost doubled every decade. In 1970, gasoline cost .29/gallon; today it costs 2.39/gallon - 824% of the original cost. In 1970, a new mid-sized Ford with a big engine cost $2500; today it costs almost $20,000, 800% of the original cost. Applying that same percentage factor, my $75 TM would cost $618 today, simply based on adjustment for inflation. Actually, today TM costs $2500, about 4 times that $618 inflation-adjusted figure. Like [deleted] wrote, I feel that I would have paid a huge amount had I known how effectively the TM program would have brought me back home to my goal. Please be careful in your assumptions here: I'm not talking based on some true belief or some faith in what the future might bring; I'm talking based on my own simple direct personal experience over these years. The time/money/energy that I invested in the TM program was far and away the best investment I've ever made. It's made this life worthwhile. I appreciate that some of you don't feel that way - some feel disappointed, tricked, abused, misled - and I'm sincerely and deeply sorry that you've found yourself on a different road. Even knowing as little as I did before I started, I came up with $75 - which is equivalent to $618 today. Today the TM movement is charging 4 times that, or $2500. Back then, when I learned, would I have come up with 4 times the $75 that I paid (or $300)? After really letting myself get back into the feelings that I had back then, I say yes - I would have. Certainly, because of the greater amount of money involved, I would have slowed down, thought more deeply about my decision, weighed it as more than the cheap lark that I saw it as, but as drawn as I was to have that inner stability and peace that I saw in the TM lecturer, I would have paid the $300. That $300 was 3.75% of an average year's income in 1970 - a little under 2-weeks' wages. It was also 13% of the cost of a new car back then. In my life since then, a lot of income and a lot of cars have come and gone - and a lot of money has been foolishly spent on things that have disappeared or were a mistake to begin with - but what the TM program delivered me to, the Self, goes on forever. In fact, think- ing back over those days when I was initiated and my behaviors and attitude toward TM back then, I feel that I would actually have taken the whole thing a lot more seriously - especially the 3-days of in- struction after initiation, and the regular practice of TM thereafter - if I hadn't thought that it was such a cheap bargain at $75. Today, based on what TM brought me, $2500 is a steal. But I am realis- tic, and I understand through direct personal experiences with friends and counseling clients over these past years that many people don't see that value at first, and that $2500 is a very significant, often daunt- ing, obstacle in some peoples' minds. It is daunting for me to tell people $2500, especially when I assume that they're not serious spir- itual seekers - but merely looking for some relative benefit (like re- ducing their stress level or improving their
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/6/06 10:06:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on 3/5/06 11:38 PM, Marek Reavis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. I was made a teacher in Estes Park, December, 1970, and we signed one. I was made an initiator also in June 1972 in Fiuggi and we never signed anything. We were read a long vow, so to speak, by Jerry, to agree to teach TM only within the confines of the TM movement as I recall. I don't remember if the vow was too Maharishi or to the laws of Nature or just what. I had been rounding for 9 months and didn't have an attorney to explain to me what I was verbally agreeing to and never saw it in writing. In other words, you didn't have the opportunity to consider the content of the vow in the light of common sense before you made it... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: I had an anatomy professor 30+ years ago (pre-med program) who could tell where in the world your ancestry was from by the shape of your skull. I don't know if it was pure luck or not, but he knew exactly where in Eastern Europe my family descended from and he seemed to be able to do this as if it was magic. I have a similar skill that, in my youth, I endeavored to demonstrate often. I can tell where a woman's ancestors were from simply by examining her breasts and judging the size, shape and feel of them. Unfortunately, I was not able to find enough willing subjects to come up with any scientific statistics as to my technique's accuracy, but I can assure you that in the few instances in which the line worked, it was magic every time. :-) :-) :-) A worthy siddhi indeed (somehow I knew that was comming)! Is it protected by trademark, that's the question? It certainly is. I call it the Tantric Analysis Technique, or T.A.T. It can be very useful at resolving questions about one's heredity. But its effectiveness is limited because it only works for women -- you have to give tit for T.A.T. :-) Do you throw in a free breast examination as well? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more words it takes someone to defend something, the more likely it is that what they're defending is indefensible. The oral equivalent to that is: weak point, speak louder! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman Tantra@ wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re- post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list, and then to my amazement it got forwarded/networked all over the world - to meditators' e-mail lists, to other TM-related discussion groups - and even translated into many languages. It generated more encouraging and appreciative e-mail responses to me than any other essay I've written. So here's another go-round (slightly edited to bring it up-to- date). I hope that this essay is of some use to you. It is offered in a spi- rit of love and compassion and humility to the tradition. Respectful comments or questions from readers are very welcome via e-mail, either privately or on this list. Namaste, Michael - -- -- TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement By Michael Dean Goodman The issue of the higher ($2500) TM course fee has stirred up a lot of controversy over the years. Something that someone wrote about that finally prodded me into action and I wrote the following re- sponse. I hope it gives you some food for thought: When I started TM in 1970, as an adult I paid $75 to learn (and by a few years later it was $125). It is estimated that prices for many things have almost doubled every decade. In 1970, gasoline cost .29/gallon; today it costs 2.39/gallon - 824% of the original cost. In 1970, a new mid-sized Ford with a big engine cost $2500; today it costs almost $20,000, 800% of the original cost. Applying that same percentage factor, my $75 TM would cost $618 today, simply based on adjustment for inflation. Actually, today TM costs $2500, about 4 times that $618 inflation-adjusted figure. Like [deleted] wrote, I feel that I would have paid a huge amount had I known how effectively the TM program would have brought me back home to my goal. Please be careful in your assumptions here: I'm not talking based on some true belief or some faith in what the future might bring; I'm talking based on my own simple direct personal experience over these years. The time/money/energy that I invested in the TM program was far and away the best investment I've ever made. It's made this life worthwhile. I appreciate that some of you don't feel that way - some feel disappointed, tricked, abused, misled - and I'm sincerely and deeply sorry that you've found yourself on a different road. Even knowing as little as I did before I started, I came up with $75 - which is equivalent to $618 today. Today the TM movement is charging 4 times that, or $2500. Back then, when I learned, would I have come up with 4 times the $75 that I paid (or $300)? After really letting myself get back into the feelings that I had back then, I say yes - I would have. Certainly, because of the greater amount of money involved, I would have slowed down, thought more deeply about my decision, weighed it as more than the cheap lark that I saw it as, but as drawn as I was to have that inner stability and peace that I saw in the TM lecturer, I would have paid the $300. That $300 was 3.75% of an average year's income in 1970 - a little under 2-weeks' wages. It was also 13% of the cost of a new car back then. In my life since then, a lot of income and a lot of cars have come and gone - and a lot of money has been foolishly spent on things that have disappeared or were a mistake to begin with - but what the TM program delivered me to, the Self, goes on forever. In fact, think- ing back over those days when I was initiated and my behaviors and attitude toward TM back then, I feel that I would actually have taken the whole thing a lot more seriously - especially the 3-days of in- struction after initiation, and the regular practice of TM thereafter - if I hadn't thought that it was such a cheap bargain at $75. Today, based on what TM brought me, $2500 is a steal. But I am realis- tic, and I understand through direct personal experiences with friends and counseling clients over these past years that many people don't see that value at first, and that $2500 is a very significant, often daunt- ing, obstacle in some peoples' minds. It is daunting for me to tell people $2500, especially when I assume that they're not serious spir- itual
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman Tantra@ wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list... Since reposts are in vogue, here's a repost of one of mine, somewhat shorter than Michael's: I entered learn to meditate into Google and checked what it costs to learn, from the first page of sites found that listed prices: 1. $0 -- the techniques are provided on the website. 2. $1.65 to $10.85 -- it's a book, sold through Amazon. 3. $59.90 -- a home study course (Yogananda tradition). 4. $0 -- instruction provided online, MP3s of talks provided for free, week-long in-residence retreats that include room and board for $295. 5. $0 -- instruction provided online. 6. $69 to $169 per day -- in-residence instruction that includes room and board from Shambhala Mountain Center. 7. $11.95 -- book. 8. $0 -- instruction provided online. 9. $4.95 -- book. 10. $10.95 -- book. 11. $0 -- Vipassana tradition, free classes. 12. $0 -- instruction provided online. 13. $2500 -- the first TM-related site, http://www.tm.safire.com/ 14. $0 -- instruction provided online (Australian). 15. $240 -- six-hour course in Stamford, CT. 16. $88 to $122 -- London Buddhist Center (4-week course). Does one stand out from the rest? Yeah, the one that I've tried and know that it works...AND has over 30 years and hundreds of research to back it up. As far as I'm concerned the whole issue of cost is irrelevant. For goodness sake's, if each of us were to earn minimum wage for each hour that we spend on this forum, we'd have had enough to buy four TM initiations... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Think I'll wait for the Readers Digest condensed version. :-) That's just because you're a sucker for simplistic, black-and-white arguments and shallow, empty aphorisms, Vaj. If you were truly evolved like some people, you'd need 883 lines and 7,921 words to say, I think it's just *fine* that other people have to pay 33.33 times what I had to pay to learn TM. I got in early; they didn't...fuck 'em. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/6/06 10:27:11 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I got some written rules in my hand when I became a TM-Teacher, how to behave and one of the rules where - that we should not turn people away if they did not have the money. We should teach everybody who wanted to learn TM even if they could not pay. Ingegerd I was not given this rule in writing but Jerry did say we never turn somebody away because they lack the funds to start. I did send these rules to FFL some times ago. Ingegerd Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman Tantra@ wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list... Since reposts are in vogue, here's a repost of one of mine, somewhat shorter than Michael's: I entered learn to meditate into Google and checked what it costs to learn, from the first page of sites found that listed prices: 1. $0 -- the techniques are provided on the website. 2. $1.65 to $10.85 -- it's a book, sold through Amazon. 3. $59.90 -- a home study course (Yogananda tradition). 4. $0 -- instruction provided online, MP3s of talks provided for free, week-long in-residence retreats that include room and board for $295. 5. $0 -- instruction provided online. 6. $69 to $169 per day -- in-residence instruction that includes room and board from Shambhala Mountain Center. 7. $11.95 -- book. 8. $0 -- instruction provided online. 9. $4.95 -- book. 10. $10.95 -- book. 11. $0 -- Vipassana tradition, free classes. 12. $0 -- instruction provided online. 13. $2500 -- the first TM-related site, http://www.tm.safire.com/ 14. $0 -- instruction provided online (Australian). 15. $240 -- six-hour course in Stamford, CT. 16. $88 to $122 -- London Buddhist Center (4-week course). Does one stand out from the rest? An insight that may be useful in this discussion is what economists refer to as consumer surplus. It is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay for a good or service, and the actual market price. For example, I may be willing to pay up to $300 / month for broadband internet access -- it has at least $300 of value to me, but I am more than happy to pay just $40 /month to one of several providers who offer it for that price. The $260 difference is consumer surplus -- one of the great windfalls of modern economies. We generally pay a lot less for things than the value they supply to us. Thus, if the argument is that we should be willing to pay up to the full value of TM has some merit if there are no substitutes. But if there are equivalent services available, the market cost of substitues is much lower than value (willingness to pay). Rational consumers don't often pay full value -- they pay market price and enjoy the -- often large -- consumer surplus. Some might argue that TM has no equivalents -- that it is a highly differentiated product and thus a price equal to or near full value is rational. That of course requires that the case for product uniqueness can be effectively made -- a growing challenge given the evidence provided in prior posts. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Think I'll wait for the Readers Digest condensed version. :-) That's just because you're a sucker for simplistic, black-and-white arguments and shallow, empty aphorisms, Vaj. If you were truly evolved like some people, you'd need 883 lines and 7,921 words to say, I think it's just *fine* that other people have to pay 33.33 times what I had to pay to learn TM. I got in early; they didn't...fuck 'em. Translation: Barry read only the first two paragraphs of what he's labeled as defending the indefensible. But then he counted the words and lines, so he had no need to read the rest of it; the length alone validates his label. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Think I'll wait for the Readers Digest condensed version. :-) That's just because you're a sucker for simplistic, black-and-white arguments and shallow, empty aphorisms, Vaj. If you were truly evolved like some people, you'd need 883 lines and 7,921 words to say, I think it's just *fine* that other people have to pay 33.33 times what I had to pay to learn TM. I got in early; they didn't...fuck 'em. Translation: Barry read only the first two paragraphs of what he's labeled as defending the indefensible. But then he counted the words and lines, so he had no need to read the rest of it; the length alone validates his label. It must be a trend. That was 5 lines and 41 words just to say Barry's bad. Again. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman Tantra@ wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list... Since reposts are in vogue, here's a repost of one of mine, somewhat shorter than Michael's: I entered learn to meditate into Google and checked what it costs to learn, from the first page of sites found that listed prices: 1. $0 -- the techniques are provided on the website. 2. $1.65 to $10.85 -- it's a book, sold through Amazon. 3. $59.90 -- a home study course (Yogananda tradition). 4. $0 -- instruction provided online, MP3s of talks provided for free, week-long in-residence retreats that include room and board for $295. 5. $0 -- instruction provided online. 6. $69 to $169 per day -- in-residence instruction that includes room and board from Shambhala Mountain Center. 7. $11.95 -- book. 8. $0 -- instruction provided online. 9. $4.95 -- book. 10. $10.95 -- book. 11. $0 -- Vipassana tradition, free classes. 12. $0 -- instruction provided online. 13. $2500 -- the first TM-related site, http://www.tm.safire.com/ 14. $0 -- instruction provided online (Australian). 15. $240 -- six-hour course in Stamford, CT. 16. $88 to $122 -- London Buddhist Center (4-week course). Does one stand out from the rest? An insight that may be useful in this discussion is what economists refer to as consumer surplus. It is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay for a good or service, and the actual market price. For example, I may be willing to pay up to $300 / month for broadband internet access -- it has at least $300 of value to me, but I am more than happy to pay just $40 /month to one of several providers who offer it for that price. The $260 difference is consumer surplus -- one of the great windfalls of modern economies. We generally pay a lot less for things than the value they supply to us. Thus, if the argument is that we should be willing to pay up to the full value of TM has some merit if there are no substitutes. But if there are equivalent services available, the market cost of substitues is much lower than value (willingness to pay). Rational consumers don't often pay full value -- they pay market price and enjoy the -- often large -- consumer surplus. Some might argue that TM has no equivalents -- that it is a highly differentiated product and thus a price equal to or near full value is rational. That of course requires that the case for product uniqueness can be effectively made -- a growing challenge given the evidence provided in prior posts. However, you can get precisely the same product for much less from teachers no longer affiliated with the organization. It's no longer the case that the only place you can get the product is from the company that developed it. You no longer have to pay a steep price just for the proprietary name. The whole The TMO charges too much because MMY is greedy argument is no longer relevant. It's gone, obsolete. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:20 PM, anon_astute_ff wrote:An insight that may be useful in this discussion is what economists refer to as "consumer surplus". It is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay for a good or service, and the actual market price. For example, I may be willing to pay up to $300 / month for broadband internet access -- it has at least $300 of value to me, but I am more than happy to pay just $40 /month to one of several providers who offer it for that price. The $260 difference is consumer surplus -- one of the great windfalls of modern economies. We generally pay a lot less for things than the value they supply to us. Thus, if the argument is that we should be willing to pay up to the full value of TM has some merit if there are no "substitutes". But if there are equivalent services available, the market cost of substitues is much lower than value (willingness to pay). Rational consumers don't often pay full value -- they pay market price and enjoy the -- often large -- consumer surplus. Some might argue that TM has no equivalents -- that it is a highly "differentiated" product and thus a price equal to or near full value is rational. That of course requires that the case for product uniqueness can be effectively made -- a growing challenge given the evidence provided in prior posts. In that case, the best bet would be SSRS's Sahaja meditation--and you get a nice pranayama technique to boot. More sadhana for my dollar! If you prefer mother figures or have ever done XTC, Amma's the ticket.And you DON'T get the rajas and other weirdness--just an org geared towards world-service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:22 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Think I'll wait for the Readers Digest condensed version. :-) That's just because you're a sucker for simplistic, black-and-white arguments and shallow, empty aphorisms, Vaj. If you were truly evolved like some people, you'd need 883 lines and 7,921 words to say, I think it's just *fine* that other people have to pay 33.33 times what I had to pay to learn TM. I got in early; they didn't...fuck 'em. Translation: Barry read only the first two paragraphs of what he's labeled as defending the indefensible. But then he counted the words and lines, so he had no need to read the rest of it; the length alone validates his label. Rather than trying to start a new argument, why don't you just tell us what you thing about Michael's article? I think it's a solid argument for why MMY is doing what he's doing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rather than trying to start a new argument, why don't you just tell us what you thing about Michael's article? Are you out of your friggin' MIND, Vaj? When Judy decides to tell us what she thinks about a post, it tends to be a minimum of twice as long as the original post. Do you have the patience to wade through 1766 lines and 15,482 words of Judy-ese? Maybe she'd be less wordy if she hired an editor... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 3/6/06 10:06:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, fairfieldlife@ writes: on 3/5/06 11:38 PM, Marek Reavis at reavismarek@ wrote: I was made a teacher in Fiuggi in June of 1972. I'm pretty sure I remember Jerry talking to us at some point about our obligations to the teaching and Maharishi in a somewhat legal-sounding way but I know that we never signed any document. I was made a teacher in Estes Park, December, 1970, and we signed one. I was made an initiator also in June 1972 in Fiuggi and we never signed anything. We were read a long vow, so to speak, by Jerry, to agree to teach TM only within the confines of the TM movement as I recall. I don't remember if the vow was too Maharishi or to the laws of Nature or just what. I had been rounding for 9 months and didn't have an attorney to explain to me what I was verbally agreeing to and never saw it in writing. Now, I think we were victims. After rounding, we were brainwashed. I did not know what I was signing - I just signed - because we had to sign before the final instructions. And then I forgot the whole thing - because I trusted MMY. Well - I do not know whom he failed most - the TM-Teachers or the Knowledge or His Master. I think everybody. Ingegerd In other words, you didn't have the opportunity to consider the content of the vow in the light of common sense before you made it... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman Tantra@ wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list... Since reposts are in vogue, here's a repost of one of mine, somewhat shorter than Michael's: I entered learn to meditate into Google and checked what it costs to learn, from the first page of sites found that listed prices: 1. $0 -- the techniques are provided on the website. 2. $1.65 to $10.85 -- it's a book, sold through Amazon. 3. $59.90 -- a home study course (Yogananda tradition). 4. $0 -- instruction provided online, MP3s of talks provided for free, week-long in-residence retreats that include room and board for $295. 5. $0 -- instruction provided online. 6. $69 to $169 per day -- in-residence instruction that includes room and board from Shambhala Mountain Center. 7. $11.95 -- book. 8. $0 -- instruction provided online. 9. $4.95 -- book. 10. $10.95 -- book. 11. $0 -- Vipassana tradition, free classes. 12. $0 -- instruction provided online. 13. $2500 -- the first TM-related site, http://www.tm.safire.com/ 14. $0 -- instruction provided online (Australian). 15. $240 -- six-hour course in Stamford, CT. 16. $88 to $122 -- London Buddhist Center (4-week course). Does one stand out from the rest? An insight that may be useful in this discussion is what economists refer to as consumer surplus. It is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay for a good or service, and the actual market price. For example, I may be willing to pay up to $300 / month for broadband internet access -- it has at least $300 of value to me, but I am more than happy to pay just $40 /month to one of several providers who offer it for that price. The $260 difference is consumer surplus -- one of the great windfalls of modern economies. We generally pay a lot less for things than the value they supply to us. Thus, if the argument is that we should be willing to pay up to the full value of TM has some merit if there are no substitutes. But if there are equivalent services available, the market cost of substitues is much lower than value (willingness to pay). Rational consumers don't often pay full value -- they pay market price and enjoy the -- often large -- consumer surplus. Some might argue that TM has no equivalents -- that it is a highly differentiated product and thus a price equal to or near full value is rational. That of course requires that the case for product uniqueness can be effectively made -- a growing challenge given the evidence provided in prior posts. However, you can get precisely the same product for much less from teachers no longer affiliated with the organization. It's no longer the case that the only place you can get the product is from the company that developed it. You no longer have to pay a steep price just for the proprietary name. That was my point. Was it expressed that unclearly? Or simply too diplomatically -- allowing for the view of some that there is no substitute for TM. The whole The TMO charges too much because MMY is greedy argument is no longer relevant. It's gone, obsolete. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:20 PM, anon_astute_ff wrote: An insight that may be useful in this discussion is what economists refer to as consumer surplus. It is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay for a good or service, and the actual market price. For example, I may be willing to pay up to $300 / month for broadband internet access -- it has at least $300 of value to me, but I am more than happy to pay just $40 /month to one of several providers who offer it for that price. The $260 difference is consumer surplus -- one of the great windfalls of modern economies. We generally pay a lot less for things than the value they supply to us. Thus, if the argument is that we should be willing to pay up to the full value of TM has some merit if there are no substitutes. But if there are equivalent services available, the market cost of substitues is much lower than value (willingness to pay). Rational consumers don't often pay full value -- they pay market price and enjoy the -- often large -- consumer surplus. Some might argue that TM has no equivalents -- that it is a highly differentiated product and thus a price equal to or near full value is rational. That of course requires that the case for product uniqueness can be effectively made -- a growing challenge given the evidence provided in prior posts. In that case, the best bet would be SSRS's Sahaja meditation--and you get a nice pranayama technique to boot. More sadhana for my dollar! If you prefer mother figures or have ever done XTC, Amma's the ticket. And you DON'T get the rajas and other weirdness--just an org geared towards world-service. Yes, that is the point -- $2500 + of value for $200, yielding $2300+ of consumer sruplus. IF you percieve SSRS's Sahaja meditation as eqivalent to TM. btw I think the AOL course where the breathing is taught, is a seperate course from the Sahaja meditation. Separate fee. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a very thoughtful essay, which I think I saw the first time round. For a long time I too mistakenly thought that a priority goal was to make TM available widely, in order to generate support for its teachers and programmes in society. There are plenty of examples of Movements with humble beginning gathering momentum and resources and respectability. But when the Natural Law Parties came into being the voters had already been turned off. The course fee issue had a moral dimension to it - fine, charge what you like, but make special concessions for pensioners, students unemployed. Not doing so was, and remains, uncharitable and offensive. Then there was the paradox of Nature Support - hardly any was coming Maharishi's way. Unlike the IRA, the PLO and countless other terrorist organizations who attracted huge donations like a magnet, to finance their operations, Maharishi had to resort to increasingly distasteful practices that made the TMO look like the money-grabbing organization it has become. Then there was the issue of how this money was being used. Instead of oozing in creativity and efficiency (like its scientific charts had promised) the TMO turned out to be a commercial disaster area. So many projects started, hardly any realised. Even its incredible products like TM and Amrit Kallash failed to make any commercial impact. Countless bad investments and dishonourable misappropriations of donations have ensured that even the mass of TM practitioners now distance themselves from the TMO. But the worst disaster was its inability to use its global resources to set up even ONE permanent group of 8,000 anywhere, in all these years since it became apparent that this alone could transform everything, way back in the 1990s - the more so in the light of patent mistrust and disinterest from governments. We come finally to the latest master plan - the adoption of 24 countries. Why not stick with 8,000 groups in India, with the $1 billion fund-raising for that; or better still, with financing that from its own global resources (many times over this figure anyway)? But it is typical of MMY to announce a new initiative - Peace Palaces in hundreds of cities (instead of starting one real one somewhere important) - then soon after shifting the focus on an even more unrealistic goal - eg the reconstruction of Geneva and all major cities or government buildings, ampounting to hundreds of TRILLIONS of dollars. So now supposedly the focus is on 24 countries - when it should have remained India, with perhaps the addition of the real open wounds of the world - the Middle East and the horn of Africa. I write this in the same spirit as Michael Dean's - as my personal opinion of the facts. An opinion moreover which has increasingly become less relevant in my life, as indeed MMY and even TM now have. I hope, for the sake of humanity, that your optimism about MMY's legacy will prove right. But right now I can't even see a single ray of hope anywhere I look in the TMO. Because you have had good experiences with TM you are willing to give MMY all the benefit of the doubt. It's a familiar stance - I had it too once, and I can see how fundamentalists everywhere end up doing the same, as the goal ends up justifying the means. But looking at it dispassionately, it never does. The means need to ring true as well. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman Tantra@ wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list... Since reposts are in vogue, here's a repost of one of mine, somewhat shorter than Michael's: I entered learn to meditate into Google and checked what it costs to learn, from the first page of sites found that listed prices: 1. $0 -- the techniques are provided on the website. 2. $1.65 to $10.85 -- it's a book, sold through Amazon. 3. $59.90 -- a home study course (Yogananda tradition). 4. $0 -- instruction provided online, MP3s of talks provided for free, week-long in-residence retreats that include room and board for $295. 5. $0 -- instruction provided online. 6. $69 to $169 per day -- in-residence instruction that includes room and board from Shambhala Mountain Center. 7. $11.95 -- book. 8. $0 -- instruction provided online. 9. $4.95 -- book. 10. $10.95 -- book. 11. $0 -- Vipassana tradition, free classes. 12. $0 -- instruction provided online. 13. $2500 -- the first TM-related site, http://www.tm.safire.com/ 14. $0 -- instruction provided online (Australian). 15. $240 -- six-hour course in Stamford, CT. 16. $88 to $122 -- London Buddhist Center (4-week course). Does one stand out from the rest? An insight that may be useful in this discussion is what economists refer to as consumer surplus. It is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay for a good or service, and the actual market price. For example, I may be willing to pay up to $300 / month for broadband internet access -- it has at least $300 of value to me, but I am more than happy to pay just $40 /month to one of several providers who offer it for that price. The $260 difference is consumer surplus -- one of the great windfalls of modern economies. We generally pay a lot less for things than the value they supply to us. Thus, if the argument is that we should be willing to pay up to the full value of TM has some merit if there are no substitutes. But if there are equivalent services available, the market cost of substitues is much lower than value (willingness to pay). Rational consumers don't often pay full value -- they pay market price and enjoy the -- often large -- consumer surplus. Some might argue that TM has no equivalents -- that it is a highly differentiated product and thus a price equal to or near full value is rational. That of course requires that the case for product uniqueness can be effectively made -- a growing challenge given the evidence provided in prior posts. However, you can get precisely the same product for much less from teachers no longer affiliated with the organization. It's no longer the case that the only place you can get the product is from the company that developed it. You no longer have to pay a steep price just for the proprietary name. That was my point. Was it expressed that unclearly? Or simply too diplomatically -- allowing for the view of some that there is no substitute for TM. Another way of stating my points are: 1) Some argue that TM has huge value and people should be willing to pay up to that value. (Which may or may not be MDG's position, but has been expressed by others.) 2) We often do not pay full value for many things -- because the market price is less -- often substantially less -- than the value of the product to us. 3) Determinants of market price include the price and availablity of substitutes -- if low priced substitutes are available -- those will usually be chosen. 4) For many, there are a number of lower priced equivalents / substitutes for TM thus creating an opportunity for substantial consumer surplus -- we may be willing to pay $2500 which is the value of TM to us, but will be happy to pay $200 if an equivalent substitute is abvailable. 5) For some, TM is highly differntiated aka special and in that view -- there are no substitutes. Thus they will pay up to $2500 for TM. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:40 PM, anon_astute_ff wrote:Yes, that is the point -- $2500 + of value for $200, yielding $2300+ of consumer sruplus. IF you percieve SSRS's Sahaja meditation as eqivalent to TM. btw I think the AOL course where the breathing is taught, is a seperate course from the Sahaja meditation. Separate fee. That's my understanding as well--but I did think it was a prerequisite for his meditation method.Most of the people I know who used to do TM and still give suggestions to people recommend SSRS, always with good feedback (so far). He IS the new TM, complete with giggling guru; without the overtones of greed, corruption and pseudo-science. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:56 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: He's a good read, esp. if you're tired of the mamby-pamby new age schlock that passes as eastern wisdom these days. There's probably something in Vimalananda to upset just abut anyone. But Aghori tantrics aren't for everyone. Yeah, he comes across as a jerk to me. I don't know how valuable it is to judge a person based on a couple of paragraphs. depends on the couple of paragraphs. You apparently thought those that you excerpted were representative of this fellow. Suffice to say, if you had a certain way you pre-conceived how a good guru should be, my guess is, he would shatter that. I'm not thinking of him as a guru. To my way of thinking, whether a person bags groceries or is a guru makes little difference how I see them. As a person, and from the quotation, he seems like a jerk. Just not my style, that's all. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:40 PM, anon_astute_ff wrote: Yes, that is the point -- $2500 + of value for $200, yielding $2300+ of consumer sruplus. IF you percieve SSRS's Sahaja meditation as eqivalent to TM. btw I think the AOL course where the breathing is taught, is a seperate course from the Sahaja meditation. Separate fee. That's my understanding as well--but I did think it was a prerequisite for his meditation method. Most of the people I know who used to do TM and still give suggestions to people recommend SSRS, always with good feedback (so far). He IS the new TM, complete with giggling guru; without the overtones of greed, corruption and pseudo-science. But it has some new age and hindu baggage -- a plus for some, a big minus for others. For example one is encouraged, expected, and/or subtly pressured to attend weekly meetings where everyone sings bajans (songs praising hindu gods). At such, and as part of the initial course, one is expected to engage in AOLisms -- hugging everyone in the room and saying I belong to you, and other things along those lines. So there are no pure substitutes. Always some differentiation between products. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: That comes across to me as spiritually elitist ego chow, but I suppose it could also just be the paradox of Brahman. I was going to make a similar comment, but couldn't come up with anything nearly as good as spiritually elitist ego chow, so I passed. :-) I was just going to say dittos, but I thought that might produce a strokes. :-) JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. snip Michael, with so many words in the world today, relatively few are worth keeping. This is. Brilliantly thought out, Brilliantly expressed, Brillaintly written! I couldn't put it down- Really Great! Thank You! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: Speaking of free meditation techniques, here is a list of the places Amma's IAM meditation is being taught. This page is updated constantly as new courses are organized. There is sometimes a small fee to cover meals or the instructors travel: http://www.amma.org/events/iam.html From the Vipassana Meditation Website (http://www.dhamma.org/): Wow, it is worth going to that site and finding your way to the structure of one of these 10 day courses. That is a lot more severe than any course I've even been on and that includes Minister Training in Thailand which was the most austere course I was ever on. The technique of Vipassana Meditation is taught at ten-day residential courses during which participants learn the basics of the method, and practice sufficiently to experience its beneficial results. There are no charges for the courses - not even to cover the cost of food and accommodation. All expenses are met by donations from people who, having completed a course and experienced the benefits of Vipassana, wish to give others the opportunity to also benefit. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can look at all this as something being taken away from you, or you can look at it as something being *given* to you. Whatever obligations you may have had to MMY and the TMO have been canceled, and you get to take this precious knowledge--if you consider it as such--and spread it as far and wide as you can. Nice, Judy! Although I don't think that the aftermath of the lawsuits will look as neat. I wonder how Farrok's (sp?) Enlightened Sentencing Project lawyers and judges sees it? JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
Um, are you sure you're being sufficiently respectful? :) If not, the price for you to be a re-certified TB just went up to $5000--cash only. Sal On Mar 6, 2006, at 1:16 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Think I'll wait for the Readers Digest condensed version. :-) That's just because you're a sucker for simplistic, black-and-white arguments and shallow, empty aphorisms, Vaj. If you were truly evolved like some people, you'd need 883 lines and 7,921 words to say, I think it's just *fine* that other people have to pay 33.33 times what I had to pay to learn TM. I got in early; they didn't...fuck 'em. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS ▪ Visit your group FairfieldLife on the web. ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman Tantra@ wrote: Dear Fairfield Lifers, In response to the recent discussions on this list about the TM course fee [Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?], I'll re-post my controversial essay from a few years ago. I first posted it on this list... Since reposts are in vogue, here's a repost of one of mine, somewhat shorter than Michael's: I entered learn to meditate into Google and checked what it costs to learn, from the first page of sites found that listed prices: 1. $0 -- the techniques are provided on the website. 2. $1.65 to $10.85 -- it's a book, sold through Amazon. 3. $59.90 -- a home study course (Yogananda tradition). 4. $0 -- instruction provided online, MP3s of talks provided for free, week-long in-residence retreats that include room and board for $295. 5. $0 -- instruction provided online. 6. $69 to $169 per day -- in-residence instruction that includes room and board from Shambhala Mountain Center. 7. $11.95 -- book. 8. $0 -- instruction provided online. 9. $4.95 -- book. 10. $10.95 -- book. 11. $0 -- Vipassana tradition, free classes. 12. $0 -- instruction provided online. 13. $2500 -- the first TM-related site, http://www.tm.safire.com/ 14. $0 -- instruction provided online (Australian). 15. $240 -- six-hour course in Stamford, CT. 16. $88 to $122 -- London Buddhist Center (4-week course). Does one stand out from the rest? An insight that may be useful in this discussion is what economists refer to as consumer surplus. It is the difference between what a consumer is willing to pay for a good or service, and the actual market price. For example, I may be willing to pay up to $300 / month for broadband internet access -- it has at least $300 of value to me, but I am more than happy to pay just $40 /month to one of several providers who offer it for that price. The $260 difference is consumer surplus -- one of the great windfalls of modern economies. We generally pay a lot less for things than the value they supply to us. Thus, if the argument is that we should be willing to pay up to the full value of TM has some merit if there are no substitutes. But if there are equivalent services available, the market cost of substitues is much lower than value (willingness to pay). Rational consumers don't often pay full value -- they pay market price and enjoy the -- often large -- consumer surplus. Some might argue that TM has no equivalents -- that it is a highly differentiated product and thus a price equal to or near full value is rational. That of course requires that the case for product uniqueness can be effectively made -- a growing challenge given the evidence provided in prior posts. However, you can get precisely the same product for much less from teachers no longer affiliated with the organization. It's no longer the case that the only place you can get the product is from the company that developed it. You no longer have to pay a steep price just for the proprietary name. That was my point. Was it expressed that unclearly? Or simply too diplomatically -- allowing for the view of some that there is no substitute for TM. Um, was *my* point expressed unclearly? You were talking about *substitutes* for TM; I was talking about TM itself, just cheaper. The whole The TMO charges too much because MMY is greedy argument is no longer relevant. It's gone, obsolete. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
This is it. If Michael really wanted to sock it to us, it would have been twice as long. Even the title on this one takes up about 5 KBs. Sal On Mar 6, 2006, at 12:35 PM, Vaj wrote: Think I'll wait for the Readers Digest condensed version. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
Actually, one wouldn't even need to do that. All one would need to do would be to look at the size (57 or so KBs, about half of which is the title) yawn, and move on to the next post, knowing they've most likely read it about 20 times before. Michael is nothing if not consistent. Sal On Mar 6, 2006, at 1:22 PM, authfriend wrote: Translation: Barry read only the first two paragraphs of what he's labeled as defending the indefensible. But then he counted the words and lines, so he had no need to read the rest of it; the length alone validates his label.
[FairfieldLife] The Point (was Re: Mike Scozarri being sued)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: You can look at all this as something being taken away from you, or you can look at it as something being *given* to you. Whatever obligations you may have had to MMY and the TMO have been canceled, and you get to take this precious knowledge--if you consider it as such--and spread it as far and wide as you can. Nice, Judy! Although I don't think that the aftermath of the lawsuits will look as neat. There will most likely be a lot to be hashed out. But it'll be much smoother if neither side looks on it as a big hostile fight. I wonder how Farrok's (sp?) Enlightened Sentencing Project lawyers and judges sees it? All part of the same thing, I would guess. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- Rick Archer wrote: Amma is adamant that money should not be charged for meditation instruction - even in a corporate setting. Do you know the rationale, Rick? An aside about the attitude toward paying for education: In the wider Waldorf world, the ideal is that teachers give from a soul impulse to teach, and that parents donate what they can to support the teachers. Both sides give their gifts *as* gifts. But while some pioneer schools have actually implemented such idealistic visions, most work under a fee-for-service model, despite the difficulties such an arrangement invokes. (Teachers need to earn more, and parents need to pay less. Instead of an atmosphere of mutual giving, the stage is set for friction.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, one wouldn't even need to do that. All one would need to do would be to look at the size (57 or so KBs, about half of which is the title) yawn, and move on to the next post, knowing they've most likely read it about 20 times before. Michael is nothing if not consistent. Excellent excuse for avoiding any argument that might challenge your perspective. Sal On Mar 6, 2006, at 1:22 PM, authfriend wrote: Translation: Barry read only the first two paragraphs of what he's labeled as defending the indefensible. But then he counted the words and lines, so he had no need to read the rest of it; the length alone validates his label. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM Course Fees and The Real Goals of the Movement
--- TurquoiseB wrote: From the Vipassana Meditation Website (http://www.dhamma.org/): The technique of Vipassana Meditation is taught at ten-day residential courses during which participants learn the basics of the method, and practice sufficiently to experience its beneficial results. I will venture this criticism of vipassana meditation, based on an admittedly tiny sample of practitioners -- one person: I have a friend who does it to great effect, but he says he can't really do it when his family is around. Too much noise. If very many people learn vipassana but don't practice it because they can't do it in a noisy market, it doesn't matter how cheap it is. It's worthless if one doesn't practice. As a man named Renee Querido said, the best meditation practice is the one you do! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
