Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Richard, sorry I haven't replied. I've been out of town today. A friend and I went to see Saving Mr. Banks. Tom Hanks and Emma Thompson were wonderful. On Friday, January 3, 2014 1:18 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 1/3/2014 10:25 AM, Share Long wrote: > Nor did she see Jesus ascend into heaven 40 days later. > You are really bringing up some important issues, Share. We don't have a Bible in the house so I'm depending Judy, and on my local Monsignor - he can read Greek - and Dad, who is in his third year reading the Bible from start to finish at his Bible Class every Sunday. Apparently Mary wasn't invited over to the house in Bethany that day, or maybe she was locked out by the men. The other guys probably didn't want a woman around the house so she didn't even try to get in. According to what I've read, Mary went back to Magdala. > It sounds like she saw him standing around looking like a > gardner. Go figure! > He just appeared to be a gardener - the key word here is *appeared*. Gnostics believe that the human body and the whole world is just an appearance, like a phantom or an apparition. Jesus even BEFORE the crucifixion, was able to walk on water, so I'm sure he also knew a thing or two about a garden. Someone that has been dead and miraculously comes back to life, and can walk through walls of solid rock, could certainly make himself look like a gardener - or anything else. So, Jesus could have presented himself as a gardener, but in order to prove that he was not a mere ghost, Jesus spoke to Mary from his human body and voice and then he flew up in the air to sit with his Father. I'm am quite certain that Mary saw Jesus disappear in the clouds. When Jesus returned to earth to meet the apostles he came flying back down as the Christ. It's not complicated. "Mary sees two angels and then Jesus, whom she does not recognize. Jesus tells her to tell the disciples that he is ascending to the Father, and Mary tells the disciples she has seen the Lord." Acts 1:3: "And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight." Resurrection of Jesus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/3/2014 1:01 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: > However she never said anything about seeing him > floating away, > Mary told the other apostles exactly what Jesus instructed her to tell them. The only thing that was important at that moment was for Mary to tell the other guys that Jesus had risen from the dead and that he would meet them in Galilee. The other guys probably would not have believed Mary if she told them Jesus had disappeared up in the clouds. That's the way Jesus goes up to heaven, just like when he was talking to Mary at the tomb garden when he vanished int the clouds up in the sky. > why would he have to fly up to heaven, couldn't he just > disappear and reappear in Heaven? > Jesus didn't actually "fly" up to heaven on his own - he was "taken up"there by his Father. But, Jesus could have flown up there - angles fly around all the time - it brings a bubbling-bliss. Acts 1:3: "And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/3/2014 10:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > Back in Santa Fe I had a gardener named Jesus, and I saw > him standing around quite often. > What else would a gardener in Santa Fe be doing, since there's hardly any gardening to be don in the high desert. Go figure. > Does that make me a New Testament prophet? > You've been standing around for years all over France, does that make you a Cathar or Gnostic expert?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/3/2014 10:25 AM, Share Long wrote: > Nor did she see Jesus ascend into heaven 40 days later. > You are really bringing up some important issues, Share. We don't have a Bible in the house so I'm depending Judy, and on my local Monsignor - he can read Greek - and Dad, who is in his third year reading the Bible from start to finish at his Bible Class every Sunday. Apparently Mary wasn't invited over to the house in Bethany that day, or maybe she was locked out by the men. The other guys probably didn't want a woman around the house so she didn't even try to get in. According to what I've read, Mary went back to Magdala. > It sounds like she saw him standing around looking like a > gardner. Go figure! > He just appeared to be a gardener - the key word here is *appeared*. Gnostics believe that the human body and the whole world is just an appearance, like a phantom or an apparition. Jesus even BEFORE the crucifixion, was able to walk on water, so I'm sure he also knew a thing or two about a garden. Someone that has been dead and miraculously comes back to life, and can walk through walls of solid rock, could certainly make himself look like a gardener - or anything else. So, Jesus could have presented himself as a gardener, but in order to prove that he was not a mere ghost, Jesus spoke to Mary from his human body and voice and then he flew up in the air to sit with his Father. I'm am quite certain that Mary saw Jesus disappear in the clouds. When Jesus returned to earth to meet the apostles he came flying back down as the Christ. It's not complicated. "Mary sees two angels and then Jesus, whom she does not recognize. Jesus tells her to tell the disciples that he is ascending to the Father, and Mary tells the disciples she has seen the Lord." Acts 1:3: "And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight." Resurrection of Jesus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
A lot of people still haven't caught on to what he was doing. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see. From: "anartax...@yahoo.com" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 3, 2014 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row For me, the question of Jesus' resurrection is rather like the resurrection of Sherlock Holmes. But if in fact he did exists as a person, I would say he experienced enlightenment, taught others, and then died, perhaps not so nicely. Some of his followers caught on to what he was doing, but most of them didn't.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Now you are assuming. If Mary M were a good little disciple,she would have run immediately and done what Jesus told her to do, and she did. However she never said anything about seeing him floating away, BTW, why would he have to fly up to heaven, couldn't he just disappear and reappear in Heaven? Flying all that way sounds like a bummer. Besides the whole of Jerusalem could have seen him flying up. He could have dropped water balloons on Caiaphas' house or even on Pilot. From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 3, 2014 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row On 1/3/2014 10:25 AM, Share Long wrote: > Mary M did not see the actual moment that Jesus returned to life, > the resurrection. > There actually two parts to the resurrection of Jesus. The first part is rising the physical body from the dead. Probably only some angels saw that who were inside the tomb. But, the second phase of the resurrection is the spiritual resurrection, when Jesus flew up to sit with his Father in heaven. I'm pretty sure Mary saw him fly up and disappear - it would be hard to miss something supernatural like that, right in the middle of a conversation with the risen Lord. John 20:17: "Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to My God and your God."
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
For me, the question of Jesus' resurrection is rather like the resurrection of Sherlock Holmes. But if in fact he did exists as a person, I would say he experienced enlightenment, taught others, and then died, perhaps not so nicely. Some of his followers caught on to what he was doing, but most of them didn't.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/3/2014 10:25 AM, Share Long wrote: > Mary M did not see the actual moment that Jesus returned to life, > the resurrection. > There actually two parts to the resurrection of Jesus. The first part is rising the physical body from the dead. Probably only some angels saw that who were inside the tomb. But, the second phase of the resurrection is the spiritual resurrection, when Jesus flew up to sit with his Father in heaven. I'm pretty sure Mary saw him fly up and disappear - it would be hard to miss something supernatural like that, right in the middle of a conversation with the risen Lord. John 20:17: "Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to My God and your God."
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Good one! From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 3, 2014 8:50 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > This was pretty funny, Richard but I still think Mary M did not see the > actual moment that Jesus returned to life, the resurrection. Nor did she see > Jesus ascend into heaven 40 days later. It sounds like she saw him standing > around looking like a gardner. Go figure! Back in Santa Fe I had a gardener named Jesus, and I saw him standing around quite often. Does that make me a New Testament prophet? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > This was pretty funny, Richard but I still think Mary M did not see the actual moment that Jesus returned to life, the resurrection. Nor did she see Jesus ascend into heaven 40 days later. It sounds like she saw him standing around looking like a gardner. Go figure! Back in Santa Fe I had a gardener named Jesus, and I saw him standing around quite often. Does that make me a New Testament prophet? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
This was pretty funny, Richard but I still think Mary M did not see the actual moment that Jesus returned to life, the resurrection. Nor did she see Jesus ascend into heaven 40 days later. It sounds like she saw him standing around looking like a gardner. Go figure! On Thursday, January 2, 2014 7:24 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 1/2/2014 6:41 AM, Share Long wrote: > But now thinking about it, maybe Jesus rose body and soul THROUGH > the stone on top of his crypt. > So, let's review what we know: They killed Jesus. Mary put him in Joseph's tomb. Some guys put a big heavy stone blocking the entrance to the crypt. Later, after a few days, they rolled away the stone and somebody inside was missing. So, how did Jesus get out of the tomb when it was blocked by the big heavy rock? He rose from the dead and he flew up out there into the sky - he was the Christ. Then Jesus camedown to talk to Mary. Are we agreed so far? > And that's why he was nekkid. The cloth couldn't make it through the stone! > Not only that, but if Jesus had risen all wrapped in tape, people would have thought he was a zombie - the walking dead. So, Jesus flew off to get some clothes on - a nice robe and some sandals to wear. He probably washed up a little bit too. Then he flew back down to see his girlfriend, Mary, in front of the tomb over by the garden. At first Mary didn't recognize Jesus because he looked like the gardener. But, then Jesus called her out name and she realized that Jesus was the Christ. After telling her what to do he flew up into the sky to get out of there as fast as he could - who want's to hang around a killing place? > ...if he was already in a bullock cart, why was he still hitchhiking > across the desert?! Was he hoping for a better ride? Maybe a camel > or a Roman chariot? > It's much more efficient to fly around instead of walking or hitching a ride in a cart. When you have to use public transportation you often have to bow and scrape. . As for saving the world, maybe at that point after resurrection, > he thought he'd make a career change. I mean, what with the > crucifixion and all! > Yeah, wouldn't you want to fly out of there as soon as you could - who wants to wait around on the corner for a bus?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/3/2014 8:41 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: > Forgive them Father for they know not what they do. > Only a poseur or a caviler would deny the scriptures right in front of their face, and no child who is old enough to think for himself or herself thinks that God Almighty lives in a local heaven down on the earth where people bow and scrape. Even a child knows that Christ and the angels can fly. Only a hypocrite would then proclaim a "heaven on earth" and "yogic flying" while at the same time, making fun of another faith. This is just outrageous!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
OY VEY! Forgive them Father for they know not what they do. From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 3, 2014 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row On 1/3/2014 12:11 AM, Duveyoung wrote: > Okay, I'm corrected on the second point. Thanks. > So, let's review what we know: Mary dated Jesus for a number of years. They killed Jesus and hung him on a tree. Mary buried Jesus in Joe's tomb. Jesus was raised from the dead; he ascended up in the sky to his Father; Mary saw the risen Christ, she spoke with him first - she was the one who told everyone else about the Ascended Master. Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, up in the sky in a blinding light. Jesus appeared to many of his followers and he hovered supernaturally up above a whole crowd of 500 people. Then Jesus Christ ascended back up to his Father's place up in the sky, to sit down at His right hand in heaven.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/3/2014 12:11 AM, Duveyoung wrote: > Okay, I'm corrected on the second point. Thanks. > So, let's review what we know: Mary dated Jesus for a number of years. They killed Jesus and hung him on a tree. Mary buried Jesus in Joe's tomb. Jesus was raised from the dead; he ascended up in the sky to his Father; Mary saw the risen Christ, she spoke with him first - she was the one who told everyone else about the Ascended Master. Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus, up in the sky in a blinding light. Jesus appeared to many of his followers and he hovered supernaturally up above a whole crowd of 500 people. Then Jesus Christ ascended back up to his Father's place up in the sky, to sit down at His right hand in heaven.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
In Autobiography of a Yogi Paramahansa Yogananda reported that he witnessed the resurrection of the PHYSICAL body of Swami Yukteswar, his Master. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: On 1/2/2014 3:46 PM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. > Mary Magdalene saw the actual resurrection. It says so in the Bible. Mary saw Jesus dead and she saw Jesus come back to life. She was the first to see the resurrection. In the Bible. "Resurrection is the concept of a living being coming back to life after death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Okay, I'm corrected on the second point. Thanks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 5:35 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual > resurrection, as you know. > Mary Magdalene saw the Resurrection - she saw Jesus ascend to the Father. She saw it, according to the Bible. "Mary sees two angels and then Jesus, whom she does not recognize. Jesus tells her to tell the disciples that he is ascending to the Father, and Mary tells the disciples she has seen the Lord." Resurrection of Jesus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> But did Mary watch the dead body of Jesus for three > days solid and then become enlivened before her living > eyes? Nope. Did she see the stone from the door being > removed? Nope. > According to the Bible, Jesus' body was raised from the dead but his soul did not get raised until he was outside the tomb. So, Mary goes to the tomb and she sees that it is empty, but only later does she see Jesus ascending to the Father - she sees the Resurrection. But, I'll have to concede this one point- you seem to know more than any pastor, theologian, or historian - in fact you probably know more about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ than anyone on the entire planet! Go figure. [image: Inline image 1] Rafael - ressureicaocristo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rafael_-_ressureicaocristo01.jpg "Mary sees two angels and then Jesus, whom she does not recognize. Jesus tells her to tell the disciples that he is ascending to the Father, and Mary tells the disciples she has seen the Lord." Resurrection of Jesus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Duveyoung wrote: > > > But did Mary watch the dead body of Jesus for three days solid and > then become enlivened before her living eyes? Nope. Did she see the stone > from the door being removed? Nope. > > Stinks of a magic trick, eh? > > >
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Re "But did Mary watch the dead body of Jesus for three days solid and then become enlivened before her living eyes? Nope. Did she see the stone from the door being removed? Nope.": YES! Matthew 28:1-6 (NIV) After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay."
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Jesus could have been using a very powerful flashlight to get his attention. Kind of like a cop dose at night. Hey you! Freeze! From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row On 1/2/2014 3:47 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: > He didn't actually see Jesus but a brilliant light that blinded him for days. > Jesus Christ appeared to be a brilliant light up in the sky - Paul saw it and he spoke to the Christ. Where else do you think light comes from, if not up in the sky? From a fire fly?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
But did Mary watch the dead body of Jesus for three days solid and then become enlivened before her living eyes? Nope. Did she see the stone from the door being removed? Nope. Stinks of a magic trick, eh?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you > know. Mary Magdalene saw the actual resurrection. It says so in the Bible. Mary saw Jesus dead and she saw Jesus come back to life. She was the first to see the resurrection. In the Bible. "Resurrection is the concept of a living being coming back to life after death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 3:47 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: > He didn't actually see Jesus but a brilliant light that blinded him for days. > Jesus Christ appeared to be a brilliant light up in the sky - Paul saw it and he spoke to the Christ. Where else do you think light comes from, if not up in the sky? From a fire fly?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 3:46 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. > Mary Magdalene saw the actual resurrection. It says so in the Bible. Mary saw Jesus dead and she saw Jesus come back to life. She was the first to see the resurrection. In the Bible. "Resurrection is the concept of a living being coming back to life after death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
I tend to have more sweat under my feet... but then I am a water sign. From: Richard Williams To: Richard J. Williams Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row > Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small > space of air beneath his feat*? > Have you ever tried to walk around in the hot desert in your bare feet? A little cushion could go a long way. But there is always a small amount of air under anyone's feet, although it may be a tiny layer of air. There is air in everything. But, in fact Christ kept a small layer of air under his feet as a springboard, so he take off without having to hop on a mattress of foam. It's obvious.You're not even making any sense, Mike. > Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but > actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can > create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, > you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. > Now why on earth would the Christ want to bow and scrape on the ground? Are you thinking that when the Christ wants to take off and fly, that he would run and skip with his feet on the ground and flap his arms like an albatross? Go figure. On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: >Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air >beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to >walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can >create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, you could >at least walk with your feet on the ground. > > > >From: Richard J. Williams To: >FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 6:14 AM >Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row > >On 1/1/2014 5:44 PM, Mike Dixon wrote:> One account of some of the first >people to see Christ after> resurrection said that they were walking towards >Galilee and> someone joined them on their walk and it turned out to be> Jesus. >So, I guess He did do some walking.>Sure, the Christ could appear to be >walking if he wanted to. According to early Gnostic writings, Jesus could >appear to be doing lots of things. The key word here is "appeared" to be >walking. Every Gnostic knows that Jesus' body was an apparition body. So, it >might have appeared that Jesus was walking, even moon-walking, but there must >have been a small space of air beneath his feet. This small space of air under >his feet is like a foam mattress in the Yogic Flying program - it's like a >spring board for launching.Were you thinking that Jesus had to grunt, and bow >and scrape to get off the ground?> I guess she was on his level, the ground, >not in the air> because she was instructed not to cling to him. unless of> course she was hovering as well when she first saw Him.>Of course Jesus was on Mary's level - would you hover ABOVE your girlfriend when you flew in to see her? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
ROFLMAO! From: Richard Williams To: Richard J. Williams Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row > Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small > space of air beneath his feat*? > Have you ever tried to walk around in the hot desert in your bare feet? A little cushion could go a long way. But there is always a small amount of air under anyone's feet, although it may be a tiny layer of air. There is air in everything. But, in fact Christ kept a small layer of air under his feet as a springboard, so he take off without having to hop on a mattress of foam. It's obvious.You're not even making any sense, Mike. > Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but > actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can > create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, > you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. > Now why on earth would the Christ want to bow and scrape on the ground? Are you thinking that when the Christ wants to take off and fly, that he would run and skip with his feet on the ground and flap his arms like an albatross? Go figure. On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: >Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air >beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to >walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can >create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, you could >at least walk with your feet on the ground. > > > >From: Richard J. Williams To: >FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 6:14 AM >Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row > >On 1/1/2014 5:44 PM, Mike Dixon wrote:> One account of some of the first >people to see Christ after> resurrection said that they were walking towards >Galilee and> someone joined them on their walk and it turned out to be> Jesus. >So, I guess He did do some walking.>Sure, the Christ could appear to be >walking if he wanted to. According to early Gnostic writings, Jesus could >appear to be doing lots of things. The key word here is "appeared" to be >walking. Every Gnostic knows that Jesus' body was an apparition body. So, it >might have appeared that Jesus was walking, even moon-walking, but there must >have been a small space of air beneath his feet. This small space of air under >his feet is like a foam mattress in the Yogic Flying program - it's like a >spring board for launching.Were you thinking that Jesus had to grunt, and bow >and scrape to get off the ground?> I guess she was on his level, the ground, >not in the air> because she was instructed not to cling to him. unless of> course she was hovering as well when she first saw Him.>Of course Jesus was on Mary's level - would you hover ABOVE your girlfriend when you flew in to see her? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
My Corinthians doesn't say anything about Jesus appearing to the five hundred in the air, just that five hundred followers saw him at once (New Living Translation). But that shouldn't be too difficult since he spoke to five thousand on the side of a mountain when he fed them all with two fish and five loaves of bread at the sermon on the mount.< As for Saul's conversion.Acts9:3 tells us that while on the road to Damascus a brilliant light from heaven suddenly beamed down on him blinding him and Saul heard a voice asking "why are you persecuting me?" Saul asked "who are you sir?" The voice replied "I am Jesus..." Saul later became known as Paul. He didn't actually see Jesus but a brilliant light that blinded him for days. From: Richard Williams To: Richard J. Williams Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row > Paul doesn't say anything about Christ "hovering up in the > air" above the 500 eyewitnesses, as you know. He just says > Christ appeared to them. > Where do you think the 500 people saw the risen Lord - under ground? Of course the risen Christ was up in the sky - how else do you think 500 people would have been able seen him all at one time? You're not even making any sense. Apparently you haven't received the Good News, or even Something Good is Happening. Go figure. According to Paul, after the resurrection the risen Christ was seen above five hundred brethren all at once, floating in the sky. Paul himself on the road to Damascus saw the risen Lord up in the sky - in the clouds above. La conversion de Saint Paul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La_conversion_de_Saint_Paul_Giordano_Nancy_3018.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle "After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles." (Corinthians 1:6 - King James Version). "Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days. I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie." - (Galatians 1:18-20 - King James Version). "This account meets all the demands of historical reliability that could possibly be made of such a text," whilst A. M. Hunter said, "The passage therefore preserves uniquely early and verifiable testimony. It meets every reasonable demand of historical reliability." 1 Corinthians 15: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Corinthians_15 On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:32 AM, wrote: >> Next time you're talking about what the Bible says, Richard, >>> when you add something you made up out of your own head that >>> isn't in the Bible at all, it would be good if you'd say so. >>> >><< Let's get this on record, Ms Stein -it was YOU that cited the Bible in >>defense of your outrageous and false claims about the Resurrection and the >>Ascension. >> > > >Which "outrageous and false claims" were these? Please be specific. > > ><< You need to get your ducks in a row. And maybe take a Sunday Bible Class at >a church somewhere. Did you ever consider taking a history course at a >community college? Apparently you don't even have a pastor! Go figure. >>>Actually, as you know, it's not necessary to take Bible classes or history >courses or to have a pastor to know what's in the Bible. ><< According to Paul, the Christ hovered up in the air above 500 >eye-witnesses. Haven't you even read Pauls letter to the Corinthians? >> > > >Paul doesn't say anything about Christ "hovering up in the air" above the 500 >eyewitnesses, as you know. He just says Christ appeared to them. > > > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you > know. You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene saw the actual resurrection. She saw Jesus die and then she saw him rise from the dead. She was the first one to see the resurrection. She was there, she saw it, she was the one chosen by Jesus to witness the resurrection. Mary. The first one. I know she saw it - she said so in the Bible. "As Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" were running from the empty tomb to inform the disciples that he is alive, Jesus tells the women to instruct the disciples to go to Galilee ahead of him to greet him" (Matthew 28:10). "Resurrection is the concept of a living being coming back to life after death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 3:16 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. > You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene saw the actual resurrection. She saw Jesus die and then she saw him rise from the dead. She was the first one to see the resurrection. She was there, she saw it, she was the one chosen by Jesus to witness the resurrection. Mary. The first one. I know she saw it - she said so in the Bible. "As Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" were running from the empty tomb to inform the disciples that he is alive, Jesus tells the women to instruct the disciples to go to Galilee ahead of him to greet him" (Matthew 28:10). "Resurrection is the concept of a living being coming back to life after death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 3:13 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Ordinary human beings speak to 500 or many more people > all the time without being up in the sky. > So, you're thinking that Jesus appeared to the 500 behind a podium, bowing and scrapping like an ordinary human being? In that case, why do you have so many Bibles around your house? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 3:00 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Paul doesn't say anything about the risen Christ "floating > in the sky" when he appeared to the 500 brethren. > So, where do you think the Christ appeared to the 500, under a rock? In order for 500 people to see Christ all at the same time, he would have to be up in the air. You are not even making any sense anymore. Don't you know anything about flying?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene saw the actual resurrection. She was the first. It say so in the Bible - Mary Magdalene was the first to witness the resurrection of Christ. Can't you read? No, as you know, nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection. Resurrection of Christ by Noel Coypel, 1700, using a hovering depiction of Jesus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Noel-coypel-the-resurrection-of-christ-1700.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Noel-coypel-the-resurrection-of-christ-1700.jpg "The Resurrection of Jesus is the Christian belief that Jesus Christ miraculously returned to life on the Sunday following the Friday on which he was executed by crucifixion." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus "Resurrection is the concept of a living being coming back to life after death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:33 AM, mailto:authfriend@...> wrote: Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, > as you know.You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene was a witness to the > resurrection - she was the first to realize that Jesus had risen from the tomb and that Jesus was the Christ. Mary was there, the first, she saw it with her own eyes, she experienced it in her heart, and then she told the apostles what had happened to Jesus - that he was raised from the dead and that he had flown out of the tomb up into the air and then he flew off to appear before the others. That's what I think. Most Christian agree with me - nobody agrees with your outrageous and false claims. NOBODY. Everyone on this list thinks you are lying about the Bible. EVERYONE. You can't even read any Greek!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> Paul doesn't say anything about Christ "hovering up in the air" above the 500 > eyewitnesses, as you know. He just says Christ appeared to them. Where do you think the 500 people saw the risen Lord - under ground? Of course the risen Christ was up in the sky - how else do you think 500 people would have been able seen him all at one time? You'll have to ask Paul about that, I'm afraid. Certainly big crowds saw him all at one time before the Resurrection. Ordinary human beings speak to 500 or many more people all the time without being up in the sky. You're not even making any sense. Apparently you haven't received the Good News, or even Something Good is Happening. Go figure. I'm not a believer, that's correct. One doesn't have to be a believer to know what the Bible says. According to Paul, after the resurrection the risen Christ was seen above five hundred brethren all at once, floating in the sky. Paul himself on the road to Damascus saw the risen Lord up in the sky - in the clouds above. No, as you know, Paul doesn't say Christ was floating in the sky when he appeared to the 500 brethren; nor does Paul say he saw the risen Lord up in the sky in the clouds above at Damascus. It's fine to imagine such things as long as you know that's what you're doing and don't claim they're in the Bible. La conversion de Saint Paul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La_conversion_de_Saint_Paul_Giordano_Nancy_3018.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La_conversion_de_Saint_Paul_Giordano_Nancy_3018.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle "After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles." (Corinthians 1:6 - King James Version). "Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days. I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie." - (Galatians 1:18-20 - King James Version). "This account meets all the demands of historical reliability that could possibly be made of such a text," whilst A. M. Hunter said, "The passage therefore preserves uniquely early and verifiable testimony. It meets every reasonable demand of historical reliability." 1 Corinthians 15: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Corinthians_15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Corinthians_15 On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:32 AM, mailto:authfriend@...> wrote: > Next time you're talking about what the Bible says, Richard, > when you add something you made up out of your own head that > isn't in the Bible at all, it would be good if you'd say so. > << Let's get this on record, Ms Stein -it was YOU that cited the Bible in defense of your outrageous and false claims about the Resurrection and the Ascension. >> Which "outrageous and false claims" were these? Please be specific. << You need to get your ducks in a row. And maybe take a Sunday Bible Class at a church somewhere. Did you ever consider taking a history course at a community college? Apparently you don't even have a pastor! Go figure. >> Actually, as you know, it's not necessary to take Bible classes or history courses or to have a pastor to know what's in the Bible. << According to Paul, the Christ hovered up in the air above 500 eye-witnesses. Haven't you even read Pauls letter to the Corinthians? >> Paul doesn't say anything about Christ "hovering up in the air" above the 500 eyewitnesses, as you know. He just says Christ appeared to them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re. Get your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 9:04 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: > I think we should all take bets on who gets the last word in on this one! > How much would you be willing to wager? Judy and Bob have their "macros", but even then, I think I could beat them, even with one hand tied behind my back. I have been known to be persistent with certain phrases. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 8:56 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: > > Were you thinking that Jesus had to grunt, and bow and scrape > > to get off the ground? > > > You mean like the "Yogic Flyers"? > Well yeah, I had Judy in mind - bow and scrape to bun-hop.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small > space of air beneath his feat*? > Have you ever tried to walk around in the hot desert in your bare feet? A little cushion could go a long way. But there is always a small amount of air under anyone's feet, although it may be a tiny layer of air. There is air in everything. But, in fact Christ kept a small layer of air under his feet as a springboard, so he take off without having to hop on a mattress of foam. It's obvious.You're not even making any sense, Mike. > Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but > actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can > create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, > you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. > Now why on earth would the Christ want to bow and scrape on the ground? Are you thinking that when the Christ wants to take off and fly, that he would run and skip with his feet on the ground and flap his arms like an albatross? Go figure. On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: > > > Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air > beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to > walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you > can create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, > you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. > > *From:* Richard J. Williams > *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > *Sent:* Thursday, January 2, 2014 6:14 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row > > On 1/1/2014 5:44 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: > > > One account of some of the first people to see Christ after > > resurrection said that they were walking towards Galilee and > > someone joined them on their walk and it turned out to be > > Jesus. So, I guess He did do some walking. > > > Sure, the Christ could appear to be walking if he wanted to. According > to early Gnostic writings, Jesus could appear to be doing lots of > things. The key word here is "appeared" to be walking. Every Gnostic > knows that Jesus' body was an apparition body. So, it might have > appeared that Jesus was walking, even moon-walking, but there must have > been a small space of air beneath his feet. This small space of air > under his feet is like a foam mattress in the Yogic Flying program - > it's like a spring board for launching. > > Were you thinking that Jesus had to grunt, and bow and scrape to get off > the ground? > > > I guess she was on his level, the ground, not in the air > > because she was instructed not to cling to him. unless of > > course she was hovering as well when she first saw Him. > > > Of course Jesus was on Mary's level - would you hover ABOVE your > girlfriend when you flew in to see her? Go figure. > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
I have several Bibles in my house, including one on my Kindle. None of them says anything about Jesus being "up in the air" after his resurrection (until the Ascension 40 days later). > the Bible doesn't say anything about Jesus being "up in the air" > after his resurrection (until the Ascension 40 days later). << Do you even have a Bible in your house? Everyone knows about Christ being in the clouds in hundreds of depictions in religious art. >> That would be religious art, not the Bible. Some depict the Ascension as taking place immediately after the Resurrection, with Jesus floating in the sky above the open, empty tomb; others do not. That's called "artistic license." Obviously the Resurrection appears much more dramatic the first way, but it's not biblical. << According to Paul, after the resurrection the risen Christ was seen above five hundred brethren all at once, floating in the sky. >> No, as you know, Paul doesn't say anything about the risen Christ "floating in the sky" when he appeared to the 500 brethren. And as far as Paul's conversion is concerned, that clearly took place after the Ascension, so Christ could well have been "floating in the air" when he spoke to Paul. "The Conversion of Paul the Apostle, was, according to the New Testament, an event that took place in the life of Paul the Apostle which led him to cease persecuting early Christians and to become a follower of Jesus. It is normally dated by researchers to AD 33–36. "As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice..." - Acts 9:3–9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, > as you know. > You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene saw the actual resurrection. She was the first. It say so in the Bible - Mary Magdalene was the first to witness the resurrection of Christ. Can't you read? [image: Inline image 1] Resurrection of Christ by Noel Coypel, 1700, using a hovering depiction of Jesus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Noel-coypel-the-resurrection-of-christ-1700.jpg "The Resurrection of Jesus is the Christian belief that Jesus Christ miraculously returned to life on the Sunday following the Friday on which he was executed by crucifixion." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus "Resurrection is the concept of a living being coming back to life after death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:33 AM, wrote: > > > *Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you > know.* > > > > *> Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, > as > you know.You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene was a witness to the resurrection > - she * > > was the first to realize that Jesus had risen from the tomb and that > Jesus was the Christ. Mary was there, the first, she saw it with her own > eyes, she experienced it in her heart, and then she told the apostles > what had happened to Jesus - that he was raised from the dead and that > he had flown out of the tomb up into the air and then he flew off to > appear before the others. That's what I think. Most Christian agree with > me - nobody agrees with your outrageous and false claims. NOBODY. > Everyone on this list thinks you are lying about the Bible. EVERYONE. > You can't even read any Greek! > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> Paul doesn't say anything about Christ "hovering up in the > air" above the 500 eyewitnesses, as you know. He just says > Christ appeared to them. > Where do you think the 500 people saw the risen Lord - under ground? Of course the risen Christ was up in the sky - how else do you think 500 people would have been able seen him all at one time? You're not even making any sense. Apparently you haven't received the Good News, or even Something Good is Happening. Go figure. According to Paul, after the resurrection the risen Christ was seen above five hundred brethren all at once, floating in the sky. Paul himself on the road to Damascus saw the risen Lord up in the sky - in the clouds above. [image: Inline image 1] La conversion de Saint Paul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:La_conversion_de_Saint_Paul_Giordano_Nancy_3018.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle "After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles." (Corinthians 1:6 - King James Version). "Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days. I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie." - (Galatians 1:18-20 - King James Version). "This account meets all the demands of historical reliability that could possibly be made of such a text," whilst A. M. Hunter said, "The passage therefore preserves uniquely early and verifiable testimony. It meets every reasonable demand of historical reliability." 1 Corinthians 15: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Corinthians_15 On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:32 AM, wrote: > > > > Next time you're talking about what the Bible says, Richard, > > when you add something you made up out of your own head that > > isn't in the Bible at all, it would be good if you'd say so. > > > > << Let's get this on record, Ms Stein -it was YOU that cited the Bible in > defense of your outrageous and false claims about the Resurrection and > the Ascension. >> > > Which "outrageous and false claims" were these? Please be specific. > > << You need to get your ducks in a row. And maybe take a > Sunday Bible Class at a church somewhere. Did you ever consider taking a > history course at a community college? Apparently you don't even have a > pastor! Go figure. >> > > Actually, as you know, it's not necessary to take Bible classes or history > courses or to have a pastor to know what's in the Bible. > > > << According to Paul, the Christ hovered up in the air above 500 > eye-witnesses. Haven't you even read Pauls letter to the Corinthians? >> > > Paul doesn't say anything about Christ "hovering up in the air" above the > 500 eyewitnesses, as you know. He just says Christ appeared to them. > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 8:21 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > the Bible doesn't say anything about Jesus being "up in the air" > after his resurrection (until the Ascension 40 days later). > Do you even have a Bible in your house? Everyone knows about Christ being in the clouds in hundreds of depictions in religious art. According to Paul, after the resurrection the risen Christ was seen above five hundred brethren all at once, floating in the sky. "The Conversion of Paul the Apostle, was, according to the New Testament, an event that took place in the life of Paul the Apostle which led him to cease persecuting early Christians and to become a follower of Jesus. It is normally dated by researchers to AD 33–36. "As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice..." - Acts 9:3–9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Actually, I think we're all pushing each others buttons and my sides are aching right now LOL! From: "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 10:09 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: << Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. >> >> >> >>Mike, you're makin' me laugh. I love your posts, keep 'em comin'. And Happy >>New Year. >> >> >> >>Trouble is, he's making sense, so he isn't going to get anywhere with Richard. >> >> >>Thanks Auth, that made me laugh too. BTW, you have a good friend in that bOb >>fellow. He certainly appears to be able to more than hold his own with the >>riffle raffle around here and to keep his head above the flotsam and jetsam >>currently streaming. I think he might be a keeper. My vote: he can stay part >>of the Club for 2014, maybe if Honorary but we'll have to bring that up with >>the board.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: << Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. Mike, you're makin' me laugh. I love your posts, keep 'em comin'. And Happy New Year. >> Trouble is, he's making sense, so he isn't going to get anywhere with Richard. Thanks Auth, that made me laugh too. BTW, you have a good friend in that bOb fellow. He certainly appears to be able to more than hold his own with the riffle raffle around here and to keep his head above the flotsam and jetsam currently streaming. I think he might be a keeper. My vote: he can stay part of the Club for 2014, maybe if Honorary but we'll have to bring that up with the board.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
<< Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. Mike, you're makin' me laugh. I love your posts, keep 'em comin'. And Happy New Year. >> Trouble is, he's making sense, so he isn't going to get anywhere with Richard.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. Mike, you're makin' me laugh. I love your posts, keep 'em comin'. And Happy New Year. From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row On 1/1/2014 5:44 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: > One account of some of the first people to see Christ after > resurrection said that they were walking towards Galilee and > someone joined them on their walk and it turned out to be > Jesus. So, I guess He did do some walking. > Sure, the Christ could appear to be walking if he wanted to. According to early Gnostic writings, Jesus could appear to be doing lots of things. The key word here is "appeared" to be walking. Every Gnostic knows that Jesus' body was an apparition body. So, it might have appeared that Jesus was walking, even moon-walking, but there must have been a small space of air beneath his feet. This small space of air under his feet is like a foam mattress in the Yogic Flying program - it's like a spring board for launching. Were you thinking that Jesus had to grunt, and bow and scrape to get off the ground? > I guess she was on his level, the ground, not in the air > because she was instructed not to cling to him. unless of > course she was hovering as well when she first saw Him. > Of course Jesus was on Mary's level - would you hover ABOVE your girlfriend when you flew in to see her? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: On 1/1/2014 4:52 PM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, > as you know. > You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene was a witness to the resurrection - she was the first to realize that Jesus had risen from the tomb and that Jesus was the Christ. Mary was there, the first, she saw it with her own eyes, she experienced it in her heart, and then she told the apostles what had happened to Jesus - that he was raised from the dead and that he had flown out of the tomb up into the air and then he flew off to appear before the others. That's what I think. Most Christian agree with me - nobody agrees with your outrageous and false claims. NOBODY. Everyone on this list thinks you are lying about the Bible. EVERYONE. You can't even read any Greek! Important Message to the other readers at FFL: Richard is desperately needing some approval here. He won't stop until Barry and Share and Steve and whoever else feels he's a war hero (falling on his grenade and all that. Can't have been a live grenade seeing as there is sound still issuing from his mouth) give him more accolades, applause and another medal. So please, gather 'round and praise this man so we can all go home and get a good night's sleep and go onto something more interesting like what product you all use to de-flea your cats.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
I agree, Judy, it is an imaginative composition. What I especially like is that the artist seems to be playing with perspective. BUT from the point of view of the human body, rather than a line of columns or some other architectural structure. Also, I like that by costume he places the three guards in another era. Thanks for suggesting I look more closely. On Thursday, January 2, 2014 10:15 AM, "authfri...@yahoo.com" wrote: Look more closely. The painting shows him in the process of emerging from the tomb right through the stone lid fully clothed (or draped), while the guards are snoring away. This is my favorite painting of the Resurrection, both because Christ looks kind of beat up and even a little diffident--more "Hi, Dad, it's me" than triumphant; and because the artist is having us on a bit: it all seems rather mundane and unexciting until you notice where Christ's left leg is, with the lid still firmly on the tomb. Also, it's a wonderfully executed, very imaginative composition. << Ok, Richard and Judy, based on this painting, I wonder if Jesus rose THROUGH the stone, but nekkid. Three beings were there on the outside. They helped him move the stone so he could retrieve his garments. Then the three men fell asleep, they were so tired from moving that rock! What do you all think? >> On Thursday, January 2, 2014 7:46 AM, "authfriend@..." wrote: << Richard, I haven't really thought about it much til now! But now thinking about it, maybe Jesus rose body and soul THROUGH the stone on top of his crypt. And that's why he was nekkid. The cloth couldn't make it through the stone! >> Hans Multscher, 1437
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Look more closely. The painting shows him in the process of emerging from the tomb right through the stone lid fully clothed (or draped), while the guards are snoring away. This is my favorite painting of the Resurrection, both because Christ looks kind of beat up and even a little diffident--more "Hi, Dad, it's me" than triumphant; and because the artist is having us on a bit: it all seems rather mundane and unexciting until you notice where Christ's left leg is, with the lid still firmly on the tomb. Also, it's a wonderfully executed, very imaginative composition. << Ok, Richard and Judy, based on this painting, I wonder if Jesus rose THROUGH the stone, but nekkid. Three beings were there on the outside. They helped him move the stone so he could retrieve his garments. Then the three men fell asleep, they were so tired from moving that rock! What do you all think? >> On Thursday, January 2, 2014 7:46 AM, "authfriend@..." wrote: << Richard, I haven't really thought about it much til now! But now thinking about it, maybe Jesus rose body and soul THROUGH the stone on top of his crypt. And that's why he was nekkid. The cloth couldn't make it through the stone! >> Hans Multscher, 1437
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re. Get your Ducks in a Row
dear Mike, Happy New Year to you and your critters! Now could you please define *last word?!* On Thursday, January 2, 2014 9:04 AM, Mike Dixon wrote: I think we should all take bets on who gets the last word in on this one! LOL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Ok, Richard and Judy, based on this painting, I wonder if Jesus rose THROUGH the stone, but nekkid. Three beings were there on the outside. They helped him move the stone so he could retrieve his garments. Then the three men fell asleep, they were so tired from moving that rock! What do you all think? On Thursday, January 2, 2014 7:46 AM, "authfri...@yahoo.com" wrote: << Richard, I haven't really thought about it much til now! But now thinking about it, maybe Jesus rose body and soul THROUGH the stone on top of his crypt. And that's why he was nekkid. The cloth couldn't make it through the stone! >> Hans Multscher, 1437
[FairfieldLife] Re. Get your Ducks in a Row
I think we should all take bets on who gets the last word in on this one! LOL!
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row On 1/1/2014 5:44 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: > One account of some of the first people to see Christ after > resurrection said that they were walking towards Galilee and > someone joined them on their walk and it turned out to be > Jesus. So, I guess He did do some walking. > Sure, the Christ could appear to be walking if he wanted to. According to early Gnostic writings, Jesus could appear to be doing lots of things. The key word here is "appeared" to be walking. Every Gnostic knows that Jesus' body was an apparition body. So, it might have appeared that Jesus was walking, even moon-walking, but there must have been a small space of air beneath his feet. This small space of air under his feet is like a foam mattress in the Yogic Flying program - it's like a spring board for launching. Were you thinking that Jesus had to grunt, and bow and scrape to get off the ground? You mean like the "Yogic Flyers"? > I guess she was on his level, the ground, not in the air > because she was instructed not to cling to him. unless of > course she was hovering as well when she first saw Him. > Of course Jesus was on Mary's level - would you hover ABOVE your girlfriend when you flew in to see her? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Is there some reason why there would have to be some *small space of air beneath his feat*? Would it not be possible for Him to walk, not appear to walk but actually make contact with the earth? I would think that if you can create the world, including being able to raise yourself from death, you could at least walk with your feet on the ground. From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 2, 2014 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row On 1/1/2014 5:44 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: > One account of some of the first people to see Christ after > resurrection said that they were walking towards Galilee and > someone joined them on their walk and it turned out to be > Jesus. So, I guess He did do some walking. > Sure, the Christ could appear to be walking if he wanted to. According to early Gnostic writings, Jesus could appear to be doing lots of things. The key word here is "appeared" to be walking. Every Gnostic knows that Jesus' body was an apparition body. So, it might have appeared that Jesus was walking, even moon-walking, but there must have been a small space of air beneath his feet. This small space of air under his feet is like a foam mattress in the Yogic Flying program - it's like a spring board for launching. Were you thinking that Jesus had to grunt, and bow and scrape to get off the ground? > I guess she was on his level, the ground, not in the air > because she was instructed not to cling to him. unless of > course she was hovering as well when she first saw Him. > Of course Jesus was on Mary's level - would you hover ABOVE your girlfriend when you flew in to see her? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, > as you know.You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene was a witness to the > resurrection - she was the first to realize that Jesus had risen from the tomb and that Jesus was the Christ. Mary was there, the first, she saw it with her own eyes, she experienced it in her heart, and then she told the apostles what had happened to Jesus - that he was raised from the dead and that he had flown out of the tomb up into the air and then he flew off to appear before the others. That's what I think. Most Christian agree with me - nobody agrees with your outrageous and false claims. NOBODY. Everyone on this list thinks you are lying about the Bible. EVERYONE. You can't even read any Greek!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> Next time you're talking about what the Bible says, Richard, > when you add something you made up out of your own head that > isn't in the Bible at all, it would be good if you'd say so. > << Let's get this on record, Ms Stein -it was YOU that cited the Bible in defense of your outrageous and false claims about the Resurrection and the Ascension. >> Which "outrageous and false claims" were these? Please be specific. << You need to get your ducks in a row. And maybe take a Sunday Bible Class at a church somewhere. Did you ever consider taking a history course at a community college? Apparently you don't even have a pastor! Go figure. >> Actually, as you know, it's not necessary to take Bible classes or history courses or to have a pastor to know what's in the Bible. << According to Paul, the Christ hovered up in the air above 500 eye-witnesses. Haven't you even read Pauls letter to the Corinthians? >> Paul doesn't say anything about Christ "hovering up in the air" above the 500 eyewitnesses, as you know. He just says Christ appeared to them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 4:52 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, > as you know. > You are mistaken. Mary Magdalene was a witness to the resurrection - she was the first to realize that Jesus had risen from the tomb and that Jesus was the Christ. Mary was there, the first, she saw it with her own eyes, she experienced it in her heart, and then she told the apostles what had happened to Jesus - that he was raised from the dead and that he had flown out of the tomb up into the air and then he flew off to appear before the others. That's what I think. Most Christian agree with me - nobody agrees with your outrageous and false claims. NOBODY. Everyone on this list thinks you are lying about the Bible. EVERYONE. You can't even read any Greek!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 4:38 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Next time you're talking about what the Bible says, Richard, > when you add something you made up out of your own head that > isn't in the Bible at all, it would be good if you'd say so. > Let's get this on record, Ms Stein -it was YOU that cited the Bible in defense of your outrageous and false claims about the Resurrection and the Ascension. You need to get your ducks in a row. And maybe take a Sunday Bible Class at a church somewhere. Did you ever consider taking a history course at a community college? Apparently you don't even have a pastor! Go figure. According to Paul, the Christ hovered up in the air above 500 eye-witnesses. Haven't you even read Pauls letter to the Corinthians?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Never a "fundie" in terms of anything but Maharishi's teaching on the nature and mechanics of consciousness. And I don't believe I ever said anything about "flying around the room with arms flailing." That would have been odd indeed since I repeatedly pointed out that nothing except hopping had been demonstrated. Finally, for folks who haven't been reading my exchange with Richard, I've never said "Christian saints or angels" couldn't fly; all I've said is that the Bible doesn't say anything about Jesus being "up in the air" after his resurrection (until the Ascension 40 days later). Richard knows all this; he's trolling and lying. << Judy is what used to be called a TMer "fundie" on Google Groups. For years over there she defended MMY's Yogic Flying program. I can cite hundreds of messages posted by Judy discussing the foam slab, the grunting, the hopping, lift off, hovering, and the flying around the room with arms flailing. But when it comes to discussing Christian saints or angels flying, she is in complete denial. Go figure. >>
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 5:44 PM, Mike Dixon wrote: > One account of some of the first people to see Christ after > resurrection said that they were walking towards Galilee and > someone joined them on their walk and it turned out to be > Jesus. So, I guess He did do some walking. > Sure, the Christ could appear to be walking if he wanted to. According to early Gnostic writings, Jesus could appear to be doing lots of things. The key word here is "appeared" to be walking. Every Gnostic knows that Jesus' body was an apparition body. So, it might have appeared that Jesus was walking, even moon-walking, but there must have been a small space of air beneath his feet. This small space of air under his feet is like a foam mattress in the Yogic Flying program - it's like a spring board for launching. Were you thinking that Jesus had to grunt, and bow and scrape to get off the ground? > I guess she was on his level, the ground, not in the air > because she was instructed not to cling to him. unless of > course she was hovering as well when she first saw Him. > Of course Jesus was on Mary's level - would you hover ABOVE your girlfriend when you flew in to see her? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 6:10 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: > ...you continually show an extreme amount of intolerance, judgementalness, > (if that's a word), and narrow mindedness. > Judy is what used to be called a TMer "fundie" on Google Groups. For years over there she defended MMY's Yogic Flying program. I can cite hundreds of messages posted by Judy discussing the foam slab, the grunting, the hopping, lift off, hovering, and the flying around the room with arms flailing. But when it comes to discussing Christian saints or angels flying, she is in complete denial. Go figure. > But in your mind, it's called "The Truth", so, no worries. > Judy doesn't believe the Bible scriptures; Judy doesn't believe in the Yoga scriptures. Judy believes in Judy - whatever she says is the truth; not some first person accounts written by conservative Christians or conservative Hindus. And, certainly she does not believe a guy from Texas. I mean, what would a guy from Texas named Williams know about the Bible or the resurrection?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 7:32 PM, Share Long wrote: > Richard kept saying that the spirit of Jesus rose from > his body but the scripture says the tomb was empty. No body. > For Christians, Jesus rose up from the dead in body AND soul. That's why there was an empty tomb. According to Mary, "I saw the Lord in a vision and I said to him, ‘Lord, I saw you today in a vision.’" He answered and said to me: “Blessed are you, that you did not waver at the sight of me. For where the mind is, there is the treasure." I said to him, "So now, Lord, does a person who sees a vision see it the soul through the spirit?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
<< Richard, I haven't really thought about it much til now! But now thinking about it, maybe Jesus rose body and soul THROUGH the stone on top of his crypt. And that's why he was nekkid. The cloth couldn't make it through the stone! >> Hans Multscher, 1437
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 8:18 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: > I just noticed that Judy is anxious, as always, to stretch > some tiny point into a prolonged disagreement. > So, let's sum up what we know, Steve: Judy does not believe the Bible as history. She does not believe that angels, spirits, and Jesus could fly or hover. But, Judy does believe that she herself could someday levitate. Apparently she has already reached the hopping stage and is well one her way to hovering and then on to flying. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 9:43 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: > As Paul's letters are generally considered to have been > written before the Gospels, he was likely referring to > various prophesies in the Jewish scriptures that 'foretell' > the Messiah > Paul's fifteenth chapter of the First Epistle to the Corinthians is based on events that were told to Paul by way of the apostles in Jerusalem. Paul talked to James and Peter and they told him about the resurrection. Later, Jesus told Paul all about the resurrection himself. The first eleven verses are the earliest account of the Resurrection appearances of Jesus in the New Testament. In Christianity believers in the resurrection will themselves be resurrected from the dead and will rise up into spiritual bodies at the Last Judgement. Paul - 1 Corinthians: 15: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Corinthians_15
[FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote: > > The first phase of lying is to be able to hover. Clearly, Judy doesn't believe that any of the people she's accused of lying over the decades really ARE lying, because she's never claimed that any of them are able to hover. Go figure. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/2/2014 6:41 AM, Share Long wrote: > But now thinking about it, maybe Jesus rose body and soul THROUGH > the stone on top of his crypt. > So, let's review what we know: They killed Jesus. Mary put him in Joseph's tomb. Some guys put a big heavy stone blocking the entrance to the crypt. Later, after a few days, they rolled away the stone and somebody inside was missing. So, how did Jesus get out of the tomb when it was blocked by the big heavy rock? He rose from the dead and he flew up out there into the sky - he was the Christ. Then Jesus camedown to talk to Mary. Are we agreed so far? > And that's why he was nekkid. The cloth couldn't make it through the stone! > Not only that, but if Jesus had risen all wrapped in tape, people would have thought he was a zombie - the walking dead. So, Jesus flew off to get some clothes on - a nice robe and some sandals to wear. He probably washed up a little bit too. Then he flew back down to see his girlfriend, Mary, in front of the tomb over by the garden. At first Mary didn't recognize Jesus because he looked like the gardener. But, then Jesus called her out name and she realized that Jesus was the Christ. After telling her what to do he flew up into the sky to get out of there as fast as he could - who want's to hang around a killing place? > ...if he was already in a bullock cart, why was he still hitchhiking > across the desert?! Was he hoping for a better ride? Maybe a camel > or a Roman chariot? > It's much more efficient to fly around instead of walking or hitching a ride in a cart. When you have to use public transportation you often have to bow and scrape. . As for saving the world, maybe at that point after resurrection, > he thought he'd make a career change. I mean, what with the > crucifixion and all! > Yeah, wouldn't you want to fly out of there as soon as you could - who wants to wait around on the corner for a bus?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> No surprise, Share. You simply aren't big enough or > brave enough to admit your pal has been dishonest, > despite all the evidence. > Everyone knows that you don't believe in the Bible as history. So, I don't know what your problem is - everyone knows that Jesus as the Christ could fly up into the air. Paul said that Jesus appeared to hover in the sky above 500 people. Jesus Christ could walk on water! You don't seem to have learned anything in the past thirty years. The first phase of lying is to be able to hover. Even some magicians can fly - Simon Magus flew up into the air - it says so in the Bible. So, we know of at least one fellow before Jesus could levitate. Birds fly; angels can fly; MMY said even you could fly. But first, you're going to have to leave behind all your preconceived notions about being a Siddha. Apparently you've got a long way to go before lift off. Go figure. So, maybe you're mistaken - there could be other witnesses to the resurrection that you don't even know about. For example, TMer angels could have been inside the tomb, who have flew into the tomb, unseen by the likes of you. If you're relying on the Biblical and scriptural testimony of others, who may have been in error in the themselves in the past, then your present sources of information could also be in error. You could be wrong. Heaven forbid! You are not even making any sense. You are acting just like a poser. You have added NOTHING to this conversation except to try and prove that Luke didn't mention Mary Magdalene by name. It has already been established by the other apostles that Mary was the first to see the risen Christ. So, obviously Luke was mistaken. Are you calling Luke, the author of a Christian Gospel, a liar? What exactly is your point?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Richard, I haven't really thought about it much til now! But now thinking about it, maybe Jesus rose body and soul THROUGH the stone on top of his crypt. And that's why he was nekkid. The cloth couldn't make it through the stone! but but but...if he was already in a bullock cart, why was he still hitchhiking across the desert?! Was he hoping for a better ride? Maybe a camel or a Roman chariot? As for saving the world, maybe at that point after resurrection, he thought he'd make a career change. I mean, what with the crucifixion and all! On Thursday, January 2, 2014 6:33 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 1/1/2014 4:29 PM, Share Long wrote: > Richard, I always thought that Jesus rose from the > dead body and spirit. > According to what I've read, Jesus was raised from the dead - the key word here is "risen" - he rose up from the dead inside the tomb - in body AND spirit - he left the tomb by flying out and then he hovered in front of Mary Magdalene so she could see him. Then, he flew up into the sky to go meet the apostles in Galilee. That's what I think. > I mean, wasn't the tomb empty?! > The tomb was found to be empty because Jesus had flown out of there through the solid rock. Were you thinking that Jesus rolled back the stone and walked out naked and and then he hitch hiked a ride across the desert in a bullock cart? Does that sound like something a risen Christ would do in order to save the world - walk around naked and bow and scrape in front of all the people in the fish market?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 4:29 PM, Share Long wrote: > Richard, I always thought that Jesus rose from the > dead body and spirit. > According to what I've read, Jesus was raised from the dead - the key word here is "risen" - he rose up from the dead inside the tomb - in body AND spirit - he left the tomb by flying out and then he hovered in front of Mary Magdalene so she could see him. Then, he flew up into the sky to go meet the apostles in Galilee. That's what I think. > I mean, wasn't the tomb empty?! > The tomb was found to be empty because Jesus had flown out of there through the solid rock. Were you thinking that Jesus rolled back the stone and walked out naked and and then he hitch hiked a ride across the desert in a bullock cart? Does that sound like something a risen Christ would do in order to save the world - walk around naked and bow and scrape in front of all the people in the fish market?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
I'm really sorry about that Judy. You'll just have to forgive me, por favor
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
As Paul's letters are generally considered to have been written before the Gospels, he was likely referring to various prophesies in the Jewish scriptures that 'foretell' the Messiah. http://jewishroots.net/library/anti_missionary_objections/on_the_third_day.html http://jewishroots.net/library/anti_missionary_objections/on_the_third_day.html However these references provide evidence the idea was in place before Jesus, and perhaps then adopted by the early Christians as part of their spiel. We really do not have that much detail about what happened in the first century. The large number of contradictions between the various Gospels and Epistles show we are not dealing with a completely coherent account, and it is certainly plausible quite a lot got tacked onto the story that never happened in the attempt to make it more impressive. If we take the earliest account that is Christian writing (Mark), the tomb was empty and that is all, Paul's references being to earlier writings, not the actual event reported in the Gospels, which do not match up in many ways. Jewish claims at the time were that the disciples stole the body out of the tomb. Grave robbing was a problem at that time as well. A stone acquired by a French collector from Nazareth which is thought to date from the first half of the first century (based on the style lettering) reads (in translation from the Greek): EDICT OF CAESAR It is my decision [concerning] graves and tombs—whoever has made them for the religious observances of parents, or children, or household members—that these remain undisturbed forever. But if anyone legally charges that another person has destroyed, or has in any manner extracted those who have been buried, or has moved with wicked intent those who have been buried to other places, committing a crime against them, or has moved sepulcher-sealing stones, against such a person, I order that a judicial tribunal be created, just as [is done] concerning the gods in human religious observances, even more so will it be obligatory to treat with honor those who have been entombed. You are absolutely not to allow anyone to move [those who have been entombed]. But if [someone does], I wish that [violator] to suffer capital punishment under the title of tomb-breaker. The stone is not thought to be connected with the death of Jesus, just a general edict covering a continuing problem in the area. The whole problem with the story is we have a book with the story of Jesus in several versions, but no concrete way to discern if any of the versions of the story are based in fact. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Paul: 1 Corinthians 15:3-5 (NIV) For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. "raised on the third day" only makes sense in reference to a physical event doesn't it?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Stevie, do you have any idea how often you get it wrong when you try to mind-read? Hi Share, Second attempt at this message. I did not follow the conversation with Richard and may have missed some nuances. But when someone is condescending, you don't usually miss that. That's what I was commenting on of course. I just noticed that Judy is anxious, as always, to stretch some tiny point into a prolonged disagreement. Her legacy, I suppose. Recorded for posterity.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
I said: "raised on the third day" (Paul's phrase) only makes sense in reference to a physical event doesn't it?": Richard, playing silly buggers, says: "Raised from the dead means raised to a spirit . . . in which case, Jesus would have been hovering naked in front of Mary Magdalene": She would hardly have mistaken a naked man for a gardener, as recounted in the Gospel. The point is that the specificity of the *third* day implies the tomb being found empty on that day (Sunday) when the women visited the tomb. Which implies an absent physical body. What happened to it?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Hi Share, Second attempt at this message. I did not follow the conversation with Richard and may have missed some nuances. But when someone is condescending, you don't usually miss that. That's what I was commenting on of course. I just noticed that Judy is anxious, as always, to stretch some tiny point into a prolonged disagreement. Her legacy, I suppose. Recorded for posterity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
And yet more awesome from Share. No matter how low you set your expectations of her, she always outdoes them. << Hi Steve and thanks for clarifying. Richard kept saying that the spirit of Jesus rose from his body but the scripture says the tomb was empty. No body. That's what I was pointing out to Richard, rhetorically. How Judy twisted that into something to criticize is HER brand of awesome imho. >>
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Hi Steve and thanks for clarifying. Richard kept saying that the spirit of Jesus rose from his body but the scripture says the tomb was empty. No body. That's what I was pointing out to Richard, rhetorically. How Judy twisted that into something to criticize is HER brand of awesome imho. On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 5:27 PM, "steve.sun...@yahoo.com" wrote: Somehow, not all my comment made it. I had added, that some of us communicate in a more gentle way, and others in a more direct, even harsh manner. It may depend on which part of our personality is more developed. Not necessarily making a judgment here, just saying that by giving people a leeway in how we interpret their comments, might make for a more friendly dialog.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Says our Judy boring us in her usual fashion. Says our Stevie, intolerantly, judgmentally, and narrow-mindedly. (What was it you thought I was calling "The Truth" in my mind, again?) Oh, and I didn't know I was that liberal. But perhaps you don't read my political posts. Judy, you spin whatever, however, anyway it suits you. Whether or not it makes sense, is another matter. But it looks like this is your career, so at least you are good at it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: On 1/1/2014 4:10 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: > "raised on the third day" only makes sense in reference > to a physical event doesn't it? > Raised from the dead means raised to a spirit - a spiritual resurrection. But, many Christians believe that the body of Jesus was restored AND his soul was returned to life, in which case, Jesus would have risen from the dead and would have been hovering naked in front of Mary Magdalene, who was the first to realize that Jesus had risen. So, that's why he told her not to touch him, because it would be improper for a woman to touch a naked man in public. Then Jesus flew away into the sky, because he was naked, in order to get some clothing and to meet the apostles in Galilee. Spirits are able to fly any where they want to and are able to hover in mid-air as long as they want to. See Barry, no one is serious here except you about how serious they all are.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Says our Stevie, intolerantly, judgmentally, and narrow-mindedly. (What was it you thought I was calling "The Truth" in my mind, again?) Oh, and I didn't know I was that liberal. But perhaps you don't read my political posts. Bingo! For a liberal, (on the most liberal end of the liberal scale), you continually show an extreme amount of intolerance, judgementalness, (if that's a word), and narrow mindedness. But in your mind, it's called "The Truth", so, no worries.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Bingo! For a liberal, (on the most liberal end of the liberal scale), you continually show an extreme amount of intolerance, judgementalness, (if that's a word), and narrow mindedness. But in your mind, it's called "The Truth", so, no worries.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
> Does anyone involved in this current discussion consider the Bible to be > history? << You mean history as opposed to your opinion? >> No. <<< Apparently Judy has been doing most of the Bible referencing in this thread. As far as I can tell, Judy cites no historians to back up any of her claims. Go figure. >> Maybe I would if I considered the Bible to be history.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Stevie, in this case I'm seeing nuances that you aren't. Share uses a kind of faux-tentativeness that she apparently thinks makes her more likable. There are some circumstances in which it's appropriate to be less than 100 percent definitive for diplomatic reasons, but she uses tentativeness indiscriminately, even for the most ridiculously obvious things. What I find "awesome" about Share is her lack of authenticity. And Judy, this might be a perfect example of what I mean by you missing nuance, and choosing to interpret something in the worst possible way. Share's comment sounds like a rhetorical statement, as in "of course the tomb was empty", or maybe, like, "Richard, you know the tomb was empty, right?" That is how I would interpret that comment. See, we all have ways of communicating, don't we?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
One account of some of the first people to see Christ after resurrection said that they were walking towards Galilee and someone joined them on their walk and it turned out to be Jesus. So, I guess He did do some walking. There's also teleportation! But to throw cold water on this whole discussion, it was John, Peter and James that first saw Jesus hover in the air over a mountain with Moses and Elijah at His side during the Transfiguration which was pre-crucifixion. One account in the Gospel of John says that when Mary M. first saw Jesus at the tomb, after resurrection, she didn't recognize him at first, thought he was a gardener, then Jesus spoke to her "Mary!" She turned to him and exclaimed "Teacher!" "Don't cling to me." Jesus said. "for I haven't yet ascended to the Father but go find my brothers and tell them... I guess she was on his level, the ground, not in the air because she was instructed not to cling to him. unless of course she was hovering as well when she first saw Him. From: Richard J. Williams To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2014 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row On 1/1/2014 2:28 PM, Share Long wrote: > Having read the gospel excerpts, I even wonder if > Mary M was the first to see the risen Christ. > "She stayed with him at the cross after the male disciples (except John the Beloved) had fled. She was at his burial, and she is the only person that all four Gospels say was first to realize that Jesus had risen and to testify to that central teaching of faith." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene > Anyway, I think you are right that risen in terms > of the resurrection does not mean hovering. > Jesus, after the resurrection, hovered in the air and then he flew off to meet the apostles in Galilee. The first stage of flying is to hover, then fly. That way, if you are the Christ spirit you don't have to walk with the crowd and bow and scrape. It's a long walk up to Galilee. If you were to rise from the dead as the Christ, would you walk a mile just to meet a bunch of guys that deserted you in your hour of need?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 4:15 PM, Share Long wrote:> Judy I did NOT confirm that the hovering was something > Richard made up! > According to Paul, after the resurrection the risen Christ was seen above five hundred brethren all at once, floating in the sky. Spirits and angels can fly and hover, so it makes sense that the Christ could fly and hover. The first phase of flying is to hover. How do you think that Christ rose up to heaven - in a hot-air baloon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 4:10 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: > "raised on the third day" only makes sense in reference > to a physical event doesn't it? > Raised from the dead means raised to a spirit - a spiritual resurrection. But, many Christians believe that the body of Jesus was restored AND his soul was returned to life, in which case, Jesus would have risen from the dead and would have been hovering naked in front of Mary Magdalene, who was the first to realize that Jesus had risen. So, that's why he told her not to touch him, because it would be improper for a woman to touch a naked man in public. Then Jesus flew away into the sky, because he was naked, in order to get some clothing and to meet the apostles in Galilee. Spirits are able to fly any where they want to and are able to hover in mid-air as long as they want to.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Somehow, not all my comment made it. I had added, that some of us communicate in a more gentle way, and others in a more direct, even harsh manner. It may depend on which part of our personality is more developed. Not necessarily making a judgment here, just saying that by giving people a leeway in how we interpret their comments, might make for a more friendly dialog.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 3:35 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Does anyone involved in this current discussion > consider the Bible to be history? > You mean history as opposed to your opinion? Apparently Judy has been doing most of the Bible referencing in this thread. As far as I can tell, Judy cites no historians to back up any of her claims. Go figure. "The Gospel of Mary was written sometime during the time of Christ. "Scholars do not always agree which of the Marys in the New Testament is the central character of the Gospel of Mary. Arguments in favor of Mary Magdalene are based on her status as a known follower of Jesus, the tradition of being the first witness of his resurrection, and her appearance in other early Christian writings. She is mentioned as accompanying Jesus on his journeys (Luke 8:2) and is listed in the Gospel of Matthew as being present at his crucifixion (Matthew 27:56). In the Gospel of John, she is recorded as the first witness of Jesus' resurrection (John 20:14–16); (Mark 16:9 later manuscripts)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
And Judy, this might be a perfect example of what I mean by you missing nuance, and choosing to interpret something in the worst possible way. Share's comment sounds like a rhetorical statement, as in "of course the tomb was empty", or maybe, like, "Richard, you know the tomb was empty, right?" That is how I would interpret that comment. See, we all have ways of communicating, don't we?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 3:23 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: > Historians and Biblical scholars seem mostly in > agreement that Mark is the earliest of the Gospels > (though some of the letters of Paul are earlier). > According to Paul, in Acts 9:3–9, after the resurrection the risen Christ was seen above five hundred brethren all at once, floating in the sky. "As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice..." "The Conversion of Paul the Apostle, was, according to the New Testament, an event that took place in the life of Paul the Apostle which led him to cease persecuting early Christians and to become a follower of Jesus. It is normally dated by researchers to AD 33–36." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 2:40 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > So Richard was wrong about Luke (until he changed "see" > to "realize" and pretended that's what he'd been saying > all along). > "She was at his burial, and she is the only person that all four Gospels say was first to realize that Jesus had risen and to testify to that central teaching of faith." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 2:28 PM, Share Long wrote: > Having read the gospel excerpts, I even wonder if > Mary M was the first to see the risen Christ. > "She stayed with him at the cross after the male disciples (except John the Beloved) had fled. She was at his burial, and she is the only person that all four Gospels say was first to realize that Jesus had risen and to testify to that central teaching of faith." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene > Anyway, I think you are right that risen in terms > of the resurrection does not mean hovering. > Jesus, after the resurrection, hovered in the air and then he flew off to meet the apostles in Galilee. The first stage of flying is to hover, then fly. That way, if you are the Christ spirit you don't have to walk with the crowd and bow and scrape. It's a long walk up to Galilee. If you were to rise from the dead as the Christ, would you walk a mile just to meet a bunch of guys that deserted you in your hour of need?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Steve, this post from Share is an example of why I think she's "awesome." Who else do you know who would ask "Wasn't the tomb empty?!" unless they had almost no acquaintance with Christianity and had never read the Bible? << Richard, I always thought that Jesus rose from the dead body and spirit. I mean, wasn't the tomb empty?! >> On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 4:19 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, authfriend@... wrote: > It was "established" a very long time ago. > So, Mary Magdalene was the first person to see the risen Christ after the resurrection. And, I think Jesus rose from the dead and flew into the air so Mary could see him first. Later, Jesus as the risen Christ flew up to Galillee to meet the apostles; and then after that he flew down to the road to Damascus. Then forty days later the risen Christ ascended into heaven. Spirits can fly anywhere they want to any time. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 1:51 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > Sorry, but that isn't a quote from that Wikipedia > page, as you know > "She stayed with him at the cross after the male disciples (except John the Beloved) had fled. She was at his burial, and she is the only person that all four Gospels say was first to realize that Jesus had risen and to testify to that central teaching of faith." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Nobody is said in the Bible to have seen the actual resurrection, as you know. > As you know, she was a witness to the risen Christ, > not to the resurrection itself. Nobody saw that. > Mary Magdalene was at the Jesus' crucifixion, a witness to his ministry, and she was at the resurrection. She saw them all with her own eyes. Then she told the others. She was the first to see it - the resurrection. First. That's what I think. Mary heard the risen Jesus call out her name and she knew it was the Christ. After telling her what to do, he flew up into the sky and went to meet the apostles. How do you think he got to Galilee - on a bullock cart? For Christians, the belief that Jesus miraculously returned to life after the crucifixion is the central tenet of the faith - the Nicene Creed. Work cited: 'The Nicene Creed' First Council of Constantinople, 381 AD New Short History of the Catholic Church by Norman Tanner Burns & Oates, 2011 p. 33
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 1:20 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > As you know, she was a witness to the risen Christ, > not to the resurrection itself. Nobody saw that. > Mary Magdalene was at the Jesus' crucifixion, a witness to his ministry, and she was at the resurrection. She saw them all with her own eyes. Then she told the others. She was the first to see it - the resurrection. First. That's what I think. Mary heard the risen Jesus call out her name and she knew it was the Christ. After telling her what to do, he flew up into the sky and went to meet the apostles. How do you think he got to Galilee - on a bullock cart? For Christians, the belief that Jesus miraculously returned to life after the crucifixion is the central tenet of the faith - the Nicene Creed. Work cited: 'The Nicene Creed' First Council of Constantinople, 381 AD New Short History of the Catholic Church by Norman Tanner Burns & Oates, 2011 p. 33
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Next time you're talking about what the Bible says, Richard, when you add something you made up out of your own head that isn't in the Bible at all, it would be good if you'd say so. Actually, the descriptions in the Gospel accounts don't say anything about the risen Christ being "up in the air" when human beings saw him. In John, for example, he's standing in the garden next to the tomb, where Mary sees him and mistakes him for the gardener. She probably wouldn't have made that mistake if he'd been "up in the air." > It was "established" a very long time ago. > So, Mary Magdalene was the first person to see the risen Christ after the resurrection. And, I think Jesus rose from the dead and flew into the air so Mary could see him first. Later, Jesus as the risen Christ flew up to Galillee to meet the apostles; and then after that he flew down to the road to Damascus. Then forty days later the risen Christ ascended into heaven. Spirits can fly anywhere they want to any time. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
<< Judy I did NOT confirm that the hovering was something Richard made up! For all I know, he really thought that. Or maybe he just misspoke. I don't think he lied or trolled. >> No surprise, Share. You simply aren't big enough or brave enough to admit your pal has been dishonest, despite all the evidence. << All in all, I definitely think that this exchange has been the creation of several people, not just Richard. >> You mean, there was more than one person leaving all those posts!? Really!? On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:40 PM, "authfriend@..." wrote: Yes, maybe the angels watched, but we were really talking about human beings. And I've never disputed that Mary Magdalene was the first human to see the risen Christ according to Matthew, Mark, and John--but not Luke. So Richard was wrong about Luke (until he changed "see" to "realize" and pretended that's what he'd been saying all along). And again, there was never a disagreement about Mary M. having been first to see the risen Christ according to the other three Gospels, so Richard wasn't "right" about that if you're implying that means I was wrong. I guess it's too much to expect that you would acknowledge that this whole fuss has been a matter of Richard's trolling and lying. But thanks at least for confirming that the risen Christ "hovering" was something Richard made up. << Having read the gospel excerpts, I even wonder if Mary M was the first to see the risen Christ. Maybe the angel at His tomb was the first to see Him. Anyway, I think you are right that risen in terms of the resurrection does not mean hovering. And I think Richard is right in that Mary M was the first human to see the risen Christ. >> On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 1:20 PM, "authfriend@..." wrote: As you know, she was a witness to the risen Christ, not to the resurrection itself. Nobody saw that. << what you should have put in red was that Luke wasn't at the resurrection >> > Neither was anybody else. > In the Gospel of John, Mary Magdalene "...is recorded as the first witness of Jesus' resurrection (John 20:14–16); (Mark 16:9 later manuscripts)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Richard, I always thought that Jesus rose from the dead body and spirit. I mean, wasn't the tomb empty?! On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 4:19 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > It was "established" a very long time ago. > So, Mary Magdalene was the first person to see the risen Christ after the resurrection. And, I think Jesus rose from the dead and flew into the air so Mary could see him first. Later, Jesus as the risen Christ flew up to Galillee to meet the apostles; and then after that he flew down to the road to Damascus. Then forty days later the risen Christ ascended into heaven. Spirits can fly anywhere they want to any time. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
On 1/1/2014 1:19 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: > It was "established" a very long time ago. > So, Mary Magdalene was the first person to see the risen Christ after the resurrection. And, I think Jesus rose from the dead and flew into the air so Mary could see him first. Later, Jesus as the risen Christ flew up to Galillee to meet the apostles; and then after that he flew down to the road to Damascus. Then forty days later the risen Christ ascended into heaven. Spirits can fly anywhere they want to any time. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Judy I did NOT confirm that the hovering was something Richard made up! For all I know, he really thought that. Or maybe he just misspoke. I don't think he lied or trolled. All in all, I definitely think that this exchange has been the creation of several people, not just Richard. On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 2:40 PM, "authfri...@yahoo.com" wrote: Yes, maybe the angels watched, but we were really talking about human beings. And I've never disputed that Mary Magdalene was the first human to see the risen Christ according to Matthew, Mark, and John--but not Luke. So Richard was wrong about Luke (until he changed "see" to "realize" and pretended that's what he'd been saying all along). And again, there was never a disagreement about Mary M. having been first to see the risen Christ according to the other three Gospels, so Richard wasn't "right" about that if you're implying that means I was wrong. I guess it's too much to expect that you would acknowledge that this whole fuss has been a matter of Richard's trolling and lying. But thanks at least for confirming that the risen Christ "hovering" was something Richard made up. << Having read the gospel excerpts, I even wonder if Mary M was the first to see the risen Christ. Maybe the angel at His tomb was the first to see Him. Anyway, I think you are right that risen in terms of the resurrection does not mean hovering. And I think Richard is right in that Mary M was the first human to see the risen Christ. >> On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 1:20 PM, "authfriend@..." wrote: As you know, she was a witness to the risen Christ, not to the resurrection itself. Nobody saw that. << what you should have put in red was that Luke wasn't at the >>resurrection >> > > >> Neither was anybody else. >>> >>In the Gospel of John, Mary Magdalene "...is recorded as the first >witness of Jesus' resurrection (John 20:14–16); (Mark 16:9 later >manuscripts)." > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
[FairfieldLife] RE: Get Your Ducks in a Row
Re Paul: 1 Corinthians 15:3-5 (NIV) For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. "raised on the third day" only makes sense in reference to a physical event doesn't it?
