[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Doc, are you saying that most of these True blue Believers just parrot TM Jargon and buzzwords without really understanding it's meaning and it's mechanics. I too got that impression when I interacted with people in the MMY-Yahoogroup. --- On Thu, 4/23/09, Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 4:19 AM This clip always blows my mind. At least David does his sincere best to recover the situation. Raga E is the shocking aspect. Here is a man so intellectually bankrupt that he can't even explain the concepts he's talking about beyond slogans and buzzwords. It appears that he isn't even aware of how he comes across as a total fool. How far gone do you have to be not to be aware of your impact on others? *
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html This isn't the only recent case of the TMO getting heavy with people. My guess is that Bevan is the driving force behind the new heavy handed attitude to detractors since he's basically a bully and enjoys that sort of thing. Comments? Archival paste: Notice from the David Lynch Foundation to YouTube: Dear Ms. Gillette: I am General Counsel for the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness Based Education and World Peace (Foundation) which hosted a private conference in Germany. The Foundation holds the exclusive rights in the United States and globally to all reproduction and exploitation of video of the conference : As provided under Section 512(c)(3) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (17 USC §512(c)(3), I place you on notice that: (1) The Foundation is the exclusive owner of the copyrights in and to the Conference and all reproductions thereof (the Copyrighted Work); and (2) The following (the Infringing Material) contain unauthorized copies or derivative works of the Copyrighted Works which infringe the exclusive rights of the Owner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj4C_kRpKOg http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safarirls=enq=raja%20germany%20lynchoe=UTF-8um=1ie=UTF-8sa=Nhl=entab=wv# http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safarirls=enq=raja%20germany%20lynchoe=UTF-8um=1ie=UTF-8sa=Nhl=entab=wv#q=raja+emmanuel+germany+lynchhl=enemb=0client=safari http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_5VPd93Ytkfeature=related Please remove or disable all access to the Infringing Material and any other subsequent copies or derivative works of the copyrighted material presented on Youtube. I have a good faith belief that the use of the Infringing Material is not authorized by the Owner, its agents or the law. The information in this notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, I am authorized to act on behalf of the Owner. Should you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact me. Very truly, William Goldstein General Counsel David Lynch Foundation for
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Yeah, YouTube is infringing on their rights because the TMO is going to show this film at so many TM residence courses and the DLF is going to show it at so many schools. They are that someone might have the ending of the movie spoiled for them. :-) Spoiler Hint: The fat Nazi did it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html This isn't the only recent case of the TMO getting heavy with people. My guess is that Bevan is the driving force behind the new heavy handed attitude to detractors since he's basically a bully and enjoys that sort of thing. Comments? Archival paste: Notice from the David Lynch Foundation to YouTube: Dear Ms. Gillette: I am General Counsel for the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness Based Education and World Peace (Foundation) which hosted a private conference in Germany. The Foundation holds the exclusive rights in the United States and globally to all reproduction and exploitation of video of the conference : As provided under Section 512(c)(3) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (17 USC §512(c)(3), I place you on notice that: (1) The Foundation is the exclusive owner of the copyrights in and to the Conference and all reproductions thereof (the Copyrighted Work); and (2) The following (the Infringing Material) contain unauthorized copies or derivative works of the Copyrighted Works which infringe the exclusive rights of the Owner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj4C_kRpKOg http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safarirls=enq=raja%20germany%20lynchoe=UTF-8um=1ie=UTF-8sa=Nhl=entab=wv# http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safarirls=enq=raja%20germany%20lynchoe=UTF-8um=1ie=UTF-8sa=Nhl=entab=wv#q=raja+emmanuel+germany+lynchhl=enemb=0client=safari http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_5VPd93Ytkfeature=related Please remove or disable all access to the Infringing Material and any other subsequent copies or derivative works of the copyrighted material presented on Youtube. I have a good faith belief that the use of the Infringing Material is not authorized by the Owner, its agents or the law. The information in this notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, I am authorized to act on behalf of the Owner. Should you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact me. Very truly, William Goldstein General Counsel David Lynch Foundation for
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. (snip) I am wondering how this crazy German dude, got approved to be on that course...? Anyone have any ideas about that...? R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. (snip) I am wondering how this crazy German dude, got approved to be on that course...? Anyone have any ideas about that...? R.G. He had a million bucks.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Robert babajii...@yahoo.com wrote: I am wondering how this crazy German dude, got approved to be on that course...? Anyone have any ideas about that...? R.G. He's as free to be in that position as anyone else. You start with 5 MM Euros.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Robert babajii...@... wrote: I am wondering how this crazy German dude, got approved to be on that course...? Anyone have any ideas about that...? R.G. He's as free to be in that position as anyone else. You start with 5 MM Euros. Reminds me of an old saying: Money doesn't only talk, it screams!' R.g.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
In other words, the Golden Dome at Fairfield, (not to be confused with the Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge at Radience, Texas, home of the Superadiance program), is a sort of hollow tope, surmounted by a kalasa, supported by the amalaka in which the akasha, symbolizing dimensionless space, is supported by the linga, surmounting the eight-angled cintamani vajra, an 8-sided prototypic harmika with a rail surrounding the hypaethral pavilion constituting a veritible chaitya-garbha pradakshina with a nice fence around it! http://www.rwilliams.us/inside/ Sal Sunshine wrote: In any other group this insane gibberish would earn whoever had written it a one-way trip to the nearest asylum. It's obviously way above your head, Sal. LOL! But, have you ever thought about taking a course in Art History 101 at a local community college, Sal? Have you ever been outside Jefferson County? Titles of interest: 'Buddhist Stupas in Asia' by Bill Wassman, Joe Cummings, Robert A. F. Thurman Lonely Planet Books, November 2001
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'. Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. please tell us more about it. where is it located and who showed it to you. when? in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about the list. Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have access to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or worked in the course office approving applications. Most of the folks doing that have always been women. When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'. Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. please tell us more about it. where is it located and who showed it to you. when? in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about the list. Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have access to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or worked in the course office approving applications. Most of the folks doing that have always been women. When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago. You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like vedic atom were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid announcing that they were now part of a vedic atom?) The Council of Supreme Intelligence. So 50's SciFi! So what years were you there? Is that facility still there?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
In another post, Raunchy opined: I understand your concern. I agree that unfounded beliefs can be harmful. However, in all the years I have meditated, I cannot think of one thing about it that has caused me harm. If someone feels TM has caused him or her harm, that is his or her experience, not mine. Let's compare and contrast to what she said in this post: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. So Raunchydog, in all that time that you were processing applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's, did you ever turn anyone down? If so, that probably does not fall into the category of causing you harm. But is is pos- sible that you caused *others* harm by just believing an unidentified male voice on the other end of the phone? Is it possible that you turned down someone's application because the unidentified voice on the other end of the phone said to out of spite, or because he thought that they might have once seen another spiritual teacher or done some- thing Off The Program? If so, and someone was discriminated against and kept away from a course that even YOU would have to believe would be beneficial for them, does this present a case for YOUR unfounded beliefs being a tad harmful to someone else? Or is their experience of YOU turning them down all their experience, not yours? I'm SURE you can make a case for I was just doing my job, and following orders. But you don't even know WHOSE orders you were follow- ing. Do you not see something vaguely remin- iscent of Germany during WWII about this, where good Germans sent Jews somewhere (they didn't care where) because some unidentified male voice told them to? Do you get my point? Thanks for posting, Anything is possible, by the way. That's another evasion, and not the same as actually saying, There is a possibility that the TM critics are right and I am wrong, but it's the closest any of the people I addressed my question to have come to actually answering it. So that makes you the least pussy-like of any of them. Your certificate is in the mail. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'. Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. please tell us more about it. where is it located and who showed it to you. when? in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about the list. Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have access to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or worked in the course office approving applications. Most of the folks doing that have always been women. When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago. You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like vedic atom were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid announcing that they were now part of a vedic atom?) The Council of Supreme Intelligence. So 50's SciFi! So what years were you there? Is that facility still there? The Vedic Atom went to PAC Pal from Fairfield in late summer of 1980. We were there just about 2 months until Maharishi invited us to join him in India. We arrived in India in November just in time for Diwali. The Atom returned to PAC Pal the following March. We were there another two months, then we shipped out to Palo Alto. I made a commitment to stay with the Atom and stay I did, until the Fall of 1981. A whole year. It was the most ego bruising experience of my life. It was a combination of being in the military and being married to ten people at the same time. The dictum was, Agree on everything. I gave it my all and it wasn't easy. Everything I felt or experienced with my senses as reality everything I thought was urgently important, turned out to be not important at all. The Atom ground my ego into toasty-o's. I had nothing left of me to hang on to. Resistance was futile. I had to go with the flow, surrender my small self and shred every remnant of ego or risk a battle with other egos equally attached to their reality. In a word, it was a lesson in detachment. It was challenging but I don't regret it. It just gives me some insight about how fiercely people are willing to defend their self-importance and hopefully I've gained some wisdom about picking my battles as well.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'. Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. please tell us more about it. where is it located and who showed it to you. when? in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about the list. Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have access to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or worked in the course office approving applications. Most of the folks doing that have always been women. When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago. You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like vedic atom were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid announcing that they were now part of a vedic atom?) The Council of Supreme Intelligence. So 50's SciFi! So what years were you there? Is that facility still there? Last I heard Yogananda's group bought it. As you know they were right next door to PAC Pal. It was a beautiful place. There was a view of a windmill next to a small lake. I took a picture of it and when I got home I managed to create a fairly nice looking painting of it. My Mom still has the painting hanging in one of her bedrooms.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html This isn't the only recent case of the TMO getting heavy with people. My guess is that Bevan is the driving force behind the new heavy handed attitude to detractors since he's basically a bully and enjoys that sort of thing. Comments? The Schiffgens clip was an absolutely cringe inducing performance worthy the Gong Show. Lynch was heroic. He did his best to treat Schiffgens with respect and well as keep an angry mob from storming the stage. Bless his heart. The TM critics have always had plenty of ammo available to dissuade people from starting TM. This clip is just one more bomb in the arsenal. They will persist and may dissuade a few here and there, but they will not prevail. People who want to start TM will start regardless of any amount of dirty laundry the TM critics unload. It might even make some folks curious enough to start TM just to see what all the fuss was. It's much more exhilarating for TM critics to say, Hey, look at that idiot, Schiffgens, if you do TM you might end up like HIM, than say, Lynch has the patience of a saint, if you do TM you might end up like HIM. In either case, it is a mistake to judge the value of TM by the actions of an idiot or a saint. There is no measure of idiocy or sainthood before, during or after TM. Whether we witness the actions of Schiffgens the buffoon, Lynch the angel of mercy or Bevan the fascist bully, TM will prevail as wholly separate from them. The point really is that these rajas are the top men in the TMO and if you're selling a technique you claim to be the ultimate in personal development and it turns out that the people that have been doing it for donkeys' years are a bunch of insane weirdos what are you going to think? At least that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's all very well just TMing and keeping your distance from the movement but would you have learned in the first place if you knew it was going to end up with this global monarchy of dubious bullshit? I've have two compartments in my head. One for TM and one for the TMO. Being unable to fit the TMO square peg into the TM round hole, does not detract from either the peg or the hole. It's only a bother when you try to do the impossible. Relax. Like it or not the TMO will always be the standard-bearer for TM. It's what we've got. Get used to it, or feel miserable about it. Your choice. Oh, I don't feel miserable. I think it's funny that a group can be so out of touch with reality. What annoys me is I used to want to create the same reality they did, but it changed out of all recognition while I watched. I don't think the ME works and looking back I can see the TMO's delusion and lies, unwitting or not, for what they are. If I could have my life again I would still join up and work with the TMO as it was a valuable lesson in how group-think can influence people to think and behave in ways they wouldn't normally do. Not many have the chance to see a real bonafide cult close up. It was a priviledge to be there at the end when Marshy's every mad rant was broadcast daily. And to have been on the inside during scorpionland! Seeing a bunch of hopelessly devoted friends treated like shit sure sobered me up. I think TM may prevail *in spite* of the TMO but only if they continue to hide what they're really like from the world. But having read your other posts about the TMO I think you have a somewhat rose-tinted view of it. Or maybe you weren't looking out for bad stuff like I was. It always fascinated me that people would excuse all sorts of outrageous, even illegal behaviour. Partly they were scared of rocking the boat but mainly because they thought Marshy could do no wrong and that reality was sometimes out of step with the movement. Someone said that to me once, seriously. Funny eh?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: The Vedic Atom went to PAC Pal from Fairfield in late summer of 1980. We were there just about 2 months until Maharishi invited us to join him in India. We arrived in India in November just in time for Diwali. The Atom returned to PAC Pal the following March. We were there another two months, then we shipped out to Palo Alto. I made a commitment to stay with the Atom and stay I did, until the Fall of 1981. A whole year. It was the most ego bruising experience of my life. It was a combination of being in the military and being married to ten people at the same time. The dictum was, Agree on everything. I gave it my all and it wasn't easy. Everything I felt or experienced with my senses as reality everything I thought was urgently important, turned out to be not important at all. The Atom ground my ego into toasty-o's. I had nothing left of me to hang on to. Resistance was futile. Raunchy, on this note from the Borg :-), and hopefully more in the spirit of I don't know- ness than cynicism, I have to ask you a question: Where did this dictum you speak of *come from*? I'm curious because in the past few days you have made some seemingly contradictory state- ments about your TMO experience. This is just the latest of them, so I was hoping you could clear up which of them is true and which is maybe not quite so true. The first such quote was on Saturday morning my time, probably still Friday night your time. You said: Maharishi is a product of his culture and he was true to it. We could not have expected anything otherwise. He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. That seems fairly definitive -- He never asked anyone to fit into his [culture or way of doing things]. And yet just a few hours later, you said: Yep. We were on the program, every minute of every day. That is what I signed on for. I wasn't drafted into the military. I joined. We were loyal soldiers on a mission of peace. No one held a gun to my head and told me to march. No one fired a shot. This confuses me. If no one held a gun to your head, what was this dictum you now speak about? You go on to say: I didn't surrender to Maharishi's control. I willingly embraced the experience of being with him. No one forced me to do anything. I was there because I loved him and felt I was doing what little I could for a noble purpose, world peace. Again, this language does not seem to jibe with your word dictum. Who or what dictated this dictum of Agree on everything to you? You speak of how it wasn't easy to *follow* this dictum. You speak of how it ground your ego into toasty-o's. While colorful in a break- fast cereal sort of way, I'm left wondering WHERE this dictum that rendered you a cereal product CAME FROM. You go on to say that Resistance was futile. Resistance against WHAT? Resistance against WHOM? A dictum is defined in Mr. Dictionary as a) a formal pronouncement of a principle, proposition, or opinion or b) an observation intended or regarded as authoritative. WHO or WHAT was the authority in question here? Where did this dictum of Agree on everything COME FROM? And if in fact it came from Maharishi, how does that jibe with your statement that He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his? It seems to me that asking a group of women to Agree on everything as a lifestyle is very MUCH asking someone to fit into a culture in which an authority (one's spiritual teacher) tells them what to do, and they just mindlessly do it, as if...uh...resistance is futile. Perhaps you have a different way of explaining why you agreed to such an artificial lifestyle if you were NOT following orders and trying to fit into Maharishi's culture. As you said earlier, I report, you decide. Please report on this seeming contradiction.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 26, 2009, at 12:19 AM, I am the eternal wrote: On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 10:46 PM, geezerfreak geezerfr...@yahoo.com wrote: See, I am the eternal (man, why didn't you just go all the way and call yourself GOD) the thing is, WillyTex really IS nuts. This is not just my opinion, by the way. Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health? Judy, like most of the ladies here except Sal show some class. But are you and Judy licensed mental health professionals? If so, can you diagnose someone from afar? It takes someone in the same state of consciousness to recognize another Eternal.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: snip See, I am the eternal (man, why didn't you just go all the way and call yourself GOD) the thing is, WillyTex really IS nuts. This is not just my opinion, by the way. Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health? He's pretty strange, but I don't think his penchnt for entertaining himself by trolling and putting people on qualifies him as mentally ill. It's quite clear to those of us who've observed his behavior for many years that he doesn't actually believe his own nonsense; he just gets off on freaking folks out who take him seriously. He rationalizes this by thinking of himself as a kind of crazy wisdom trickster, i.e., one who appears crazy but is actually conveying a higher wisdom by challenging people's attachment to mundane reality. Whether he's successful at this or is just indulging his own ego is another question entirely. Me, I suspect he's subconsciously afraid he'll be rejected as a serious person if he puts himself out there as such, so he deliberately sabotages that possibility. Which is actually a shame, because he *does* have a lot of genuine knowledge and understanding to contribute. Every once in a while you'll see a bit of it in his posts.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 26, 2009, at 2:07 AM, geezerfreak wrote: You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like vedic atom were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid announcing that they were now part of a vedic atom?) The Council of Supreme Intelligence. So 50's SciFi! No kidding--you almost expect Green Lantern and Red Flash to jump out and start fighting Lex Luther or something when you hear those silly terms used. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 26, 2009, at 2:51 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Is it possible that you turned down someone's application because the unidentified voice on the other end of the phone said to out of spite, or because he thought that they might have once seen another spiritual teacher or done some- thing Off The Program? If so, and someone was discriminated against and kept away from a course that even YOU would have to believe would be beneficial for them, does this present a case for YOUR unfounded beliefs being a tad harmful to someone else? Or is their experience of YOU turning them down all their experience, not yours? I'm looking forward to this answer too, as this happened fairly often, from what I recall. It was especially evil when one spouse would be accepted, but not the other. That's basically breaking up families, forcing people to choose, triangulating them. And it's interesting, isn't it, that that kind of behavior was not only tolerated, it was usually exalted as keeping the knowledge pure or whatever other BS phrase they used, while attempting to save marriages or relationships by seeking counseling was condemned, as far as I know, always--no exceptions. Quite a system of ethics there, eh? So I too am wondering about Raunch's answer, and whether or not the dismay/ anxiety of others being turned away for reasons the TMO never even had the decency to own up to (undoubtedly because they didn't actually *have* any reasons, or they were too lame for anyone to own up to) had any effect on her other than, Well, it's not *my* problem, why should I worry? Good question, Barry. I'm not holding my breath waiting for the answer, though. I'm SURE you can make a case for I was just doing my job, and following orders. But you don't even know WHOSE orders you were follow- ing. Do you not see something vaguely remin- iscent of Germany during WWII about this, where good Germans sent Jews somewhere (they didn't care where) because some unidentified male voice told them to? I believe even the Nazis identified themselves. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 26, 2009, at 4:28 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Perhaps you have a different way of explaining why you agreed to such an artificial lifestyle if you were NOT following orders and trying to fit into Maharishi's culture. As you said earlier, I report, you decide. Please report on this seeming contradiction. The Vedic Atom in the town I was living in at the time lived right at the TM Center, slept on the floors, etc. Barry, your questions are great, and very thought-provoking. Mine are much more prosaic...I was wondering then, and I still wonder...where TF did they take showers?? And how do 10 or so people get washed up in one or two tiny sinks. Rick, where did you and the guys take showers? Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Apr 26, 2009, at 2:51 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Is it possible that you turned down someone's application because the unidentified voice on the other end of the phone said to out of spite, or because he thought that they might have once seen another spiritual teacher or done some- thing Off The Program? If so, and someone was discriminated against and kept away from a course that even YOU would have to believe would be beneficial for them, does this present a case for YOUR unfounded beliefs being a tad harmful to someone else? Or is their experience of YOU turning them down all their experience, not yours? I'm looking forward to this answer too, as this happened fairly often, from what I recall. It was especially evil when one spouse would be accepted, but not the other. That's basically breaking up families, forcing people to choose, triangulating them. And it's interesting, isn't it, that that kind of behavior was not only tolerated, it was usually exalted as keeping the knowledge pure or whatever other BS phrase they used, while attempting to save marriages or relationships by seeking counseling was condemned, as far as I know, always--no exceptions. Quite a system of ethics there, eh? So I too am wondering about Raunch's answer, and whether or not the dismay/ anxiety of others being turned away for reasons the TMO never even had the decency to own up to (undoubtedly because they didn't actually *have* any reasons, or they were too lame for anyone to own up to) had any effect on her other than, Well, it's not *my* problem, why should I worry? Good question, Barry. I'm not holding my breath waiting for the answer, though. I'm SURE you can make a case for I was just doing my job, and following orders. But you don't even know WHOSE orders you were follow- ing. Do you not see something vaguely remin- iscent of Germany during WWII about this, where good Germans sent Jews somewhere (they didn't care where) because some unidentified male voice told them to? I believe even the Nazis identified themselves. Sal Reminds me of a dark song, my step-son wrote, some years back, when he was going through some kind of rebellious period. 'Why We Did It, 'cause Charlie said' Why we done it?... 'cause Charlie said, Why we did it?... 'cause Charlie said... Charlie said, Charlie said, Charlie said... (repeat) more loudly, then scream loudly while playing hard-core hard heavy metal, with no harmony whatsoever. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Your name is not on the list of TM teachers in good standing. There is no geezerfreak on the list. What else do you want to know? geezer wrote: Not a thing Willy boy. Boo, in case it's not obvious this fella is nuttier than a fruitcake. You paid good money for a nonsense gibberish sound; you paid good money to sit around for six months doing nothing on a TTC; you paid good money for numerous CCPs; you paid good money to learn how to fly; you shilled for the Marshy for twenty-five years, selling water down by the river, but I'm the fruitcake? Trying to dialog with him is useless. Now you're totally discredited; you've been banned from the MUM campus; your name is mud all over Fairfield, IA; you spend most of your time monitoring a anti- TM internet news group; your name isn't even on the TMO mailing list. I'll to have to ask Ned Wynn about it since I believe he knew Willy at one point back there Your only friend is a guy named boo and another old geezer named Ned, but I'm the damaged one? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: [...] It always fascinated me that people would excuse all sorts of outrageous, even illegal behaviour. Partly they were scared of rocking the boat but mainly because they thought Marshy could do no wrong and that reality was sometimes out of step with the movement. Someone said that to me once, seriously. Funny eh? That last is a perfectly valid perspective if you think that the current reality has some flaws that the TMO could somehow correct. Surely you agree that the current reality doesn't always seem perfect? So obviously its the other sie of the argument that you object to. Of course in a Type I or above multiverse, ALL realities exist anyway... This just happens to be the one that we can perceive. Lawson L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Raunchy, Your post showed such a tolerance for my different view, respect for me a person who holds such different views, and without a shred of making me wrong for holding them, I am moved. Love and respect back at ya. I have no doubt that given some almond chocolate biscottis and something warm to dip them in, we would enjoy an fascinating conversation on where we are drawing are different lines on this funnhouse mirror we call reality. You have written for me an excellent reputation to live up to, I will do my best! Curtis labeled himself as a cynic. I labeled myself as an idealist. In between, we live in shades of gray. The cynic who insists the world is black or white, does indeed live to crush idealism. There isn't any wiggle room in their life for beauty, magic and surrender of the heart. It makes them feel ill. If someone says they believe in unicorns, the cynic's blood boils with excitement at the thought of packing the unicorn believer into a box and sending them off to the trash compactor. Curtis is not a cynic who lives in a black and white world. He is an idealistic cynic, a purist, a magnanimous spirit, confident enough in himself to treat the unicorn believer with respect. When it comes to Maharishi and I wear my heart on my sleeve, I am well aware that I have made myself a target for derision from cynics living in the world of black and white. Curtis trusts his instincts, has a genuine interest in truthful self-inquiry and courageous go-it-alone attitude about his spiritual path. I respect his choice. I choose differently. Maharishi never failed or mislead me. I have always felt confident in his direction. There is no right or wrong in any of this. Curtis loves his spiritual path and I love mine. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil. I wanna be like you when I grow up. No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy. She expresses the kind of heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts. Plus without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine! And I love's my cynical bastard routine! Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! Right, whether we choose cynicism or idealism, it is still a choice. It's interesting that cynicism is just as invested in crushing idealism as the idealist is in ignoring the hysteria underlying the cautions of the cynic. Ha Ha if you believe THAT, then you must think pigs can fly. Sister, you are in serious need of cult deprogramming. So certain, the cynic of his beliefs, so superior in his wisdom of caution, he never stops to think he might be to one in need of deprogramming. spot on- the cynics are not above the naivete of the idealist, just 180 degrees opposed. they have exactly same emotional attachment in being rock solid in their assumptions, and desire to fix the outcome of the object in question- in this case the practice of TM. the cynic and the idealist (or 'TB' and 'anti-TB') are both attempting to do the same thing, predict the future by eliminating ambiguity, and resist change. 2 people each with over 30 yrs experience practicing tm and working within the tmo or living in ffld have a discussion here about their disappointments and dislikes regarding their experiences with the tmo and immediately another person feels the fervent need to come into that discussion and label them cynics trying to crush all good and idealism in the world. sorry, that is not a distinction between cynics and idealists, but just a fundamentalist getting pissed off that someone left their sect. someone who pooh poohs tm because they think MMY laughs funny or because all meditation is flaky is a cynic, not someone sincerely discussing their 30 yrs experience. and
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Trying to dialog with him is useless... L.Shaddai wrote: Why don't we just add to the homepage of FFL that the main purpose of the group is to sling nastygrams at each other? Is this your nastygrams contribution? That anyone who joins has nothing better to do with his/her time (and karma) than to call others nasty names and characterize them in the worse possible way? You fukin' idiot - I didn't give them the name geezerfreak and boo! I guess they are too embarrassed to reveal their real names - I don't blame them - I'd hide too. But I'm sure the TMO knows who they are, since their names aren't on the list. I guess they don't have a dome badge anymore - I wouldn't be surprised if they were banned from the MUM campus. From what I've heard, these two informants don't even get TMO mailouts anymore. When I asked about them at the TM Center, they said they never even heard of them. Does anyone here have a concept of this thing called karma? Now I am characterized as being a hateful, deranged individual, yet I try whenever possible to avoid conflict unless really pushed. But all of these people here who are holier than I am somehow don't get Matt. 7:1. Yet they tell each other how much more evolved they are than the others here. In typical FFL fashion, a person who posted here that he wasn't happy with me couldn't take my reply that that's life and my feelings weren't hurt as an end of our exchange. He had to use a private email to tear me a new asshole and tell me that I'd have to suffer living in my hate for the rest of my life. Gosh. I wasn't even told such things at Our Lady of The Inquisition Catholic School when I was growing up. I replied back that I'm not suffering. Life's a ball and it's getting better day by day. I pointed out that the motive behind his email was *to vent his hate towards me*. I'm sure he didn't get it, as he can only see people one way: fitting into his expectations or not. Yeah, that shows how far along on the path he is. I forgave him. That's how hateful I was toward him. Would there actually be anything to post here if the main purpose of posting wasn't to engage in the Eric Berne game Now I've Got You, You Son of a Bitch? Very impressive, Mr. Shaddai!
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: Nicely said Raunchy. Curtis comes off to me as a skeptic, rather than as a cynic, but not closed minded. There is a difference between skepticism and closedmindetudiness (to use a Curtis type word). Thanks for an uplifting post and as I said to Rauncy, I will try to live up to it. I used the term cynical bastard which had more of a Muppet quality for me. When I use the term cynic I mean it in the modern reduced version from its Greek philosophical origins. It assumes that people act according to their own self interest. It provides the physiological counterpoint to follow the money in cutting through the hype of organizations. It leads me to assume that a person with as much absolute power as Maharishi had, probably used it, i.e. got rich, lived well, banged a few adoring... But going back to the Greek philosophers, it gets way more interesting. Here is a Wiki summary of their principles: 1. The goal of life is happiness which is to live in agreement with Nature. 2. Happiness depends on being self-sufficient, and a master of mental attitude. 3. Self-sufficiency is achieved by living a life of Virtue. 4. The road to virtue is to free oneself from any influence such as wealth, fame, or power, which have no value in Nature. 5. Suffering is caused by false judgments of value, which cause negative emotions and a vicious character. It could be a manual for Purusha! It also sounds remarkably idealistic doesn't it? Those clever Greeks with their delicious sheep milk Feta cheese, their Kalamata olives and olive oil, their Metaxa brandy and their Asperger's syndrome-like fixation on philosophy in maddening detail...I love that culture. Some day I'm gunna rent one of the totally white, tiled open villas nestled in the rocks of a Greek island surrounded by that blue blue water we see in all those Greek Island tourist posters, and sit with a bottle of Metaxa and Plato's dialogues and let Socrates blow my mind, again. (I will, however, lock my door on the old queen so I can sleep without being initiated into ALL of the Greek mysteries!) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Curtis is not a cynic who lives in a black and white world. He is an idealistic cynic, a purist, a magnanimous spirit, confident enough in himself to treat the unicorn believer with respect. When it comes to Maharishi and I wear my heart on my sleeve, I am well aware that I have made myself a target for derision from cynics living in the world of black and white. Curtis trusts his instincts, has a genuine interest in truthful self-inquiry and courageous go-it-alone attitude about his spiritual path. I respect his choice. I choose differently. Maharishi never failed or mislead me. I have always felt confident in his direction. There is no right or wrong in any of this. Curtis loves his spiritual path and I love mine. Nicely said Raunchy. Curtis comes off to me as a skeptic, rather than as a cynic, but not closed minded. There is a difference between skepticism and closedmindetudiness (to use a Curtis type word). Well actually I used the term cynical bastard which had more of a Muppet quality for me. When I use the term cynic I mean it in the modern reduced version from its Greek philosophical origins. It assumes that people act according to their own self interest. It provides the physcoligical counterpoint to
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Now I've Got You, You Son of a Bitch? geezerfreak wrote: See, I am the eternal (man, why didn't you just go all the way and call yourself GOD) the thing is, WillyTex really IS nuts. You're still living in a trailer house in Fairfield, IA; trying to get into the women's dome; posting incessantly on the internet to an anti-TM news group, to a guy named boo and another named God, but I'm nuts? This is not just my opinion, by the way. But, why isn't your name on the TMO mailing list? You seem to be really interested in the TMers and their comings and goings. Just askin'. Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health? Run to Mommy, run - see a geezer run.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health? Judy wrote: He's pretty strange, You've been posting on the internet for what, fifteen years or more, and I'm the strange one? Maybe so - some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to, I guess. For the record, I am still on the TMO list - I get things in the mail all the time. I'm living about a mile from the Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge at Radiance, Texas - I am a TMer and a Citizen Sidha in good standing. Still on the program after all these years - TMer number 214 in the U.S.A., according to Beaulah Smith. That's me, the one with the silly grin on his face: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/images/mmy64.jpg but I don't think his penchnt for entertaining himself by trolling and putting people on qualifies him as mentally ill. It's quite clear to those of us who've observed his behavior for many years that he doesn't actually believe his own nonsense; he just gets off on freaking folks out who take him seriously. He rationalizes this by thinking of himself as a kind of crazy wisdom trickster, i.e., one who appears crazy but is actually conveying a higher wisdom by challenging people's attachment to mundane reality. Whether he's successful at this or is just indulging his own ego is another question entirely. Me, I suspect he's subconsciously afraid he'll be rejected as a serious person if he puts himself out there as such, so he deliberately sabotages that possibility. Which is actually a shame, because he *does* have a lot of genuine knowledge and understanding to contribute. Every once in a while you'll see a bit of it in his posts. So, it's all about willytex? What I Did Last Summer: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
When I agreed on to be on the Vedic Atom I freely, and willingly made a pledge, a commitment to Maharishi to take direction from him. The mission of the Atom was to establish a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment in cities assigned to the Atom. The process of forming an Atom took several days. It was like a sorority rush of everyone jockeying for which team of ten women they wanted to join. Right from the get-go, I felt the rumblings of my ego, Pick me. Don't pick her. She is my friend. She is not my friend. I like her. I don't like her. I don't know her. I want to be with her. I don't want to be with her. It was a nutty process but looking back on it, I see it as the beginning of the grandest life lesson in detachment I have ever experienced. I'll put it on a par with raising children or experiencing a challenging relationship. You learn to observe the needs of your ego over the needs of other egos and you either pick your battles or let it go. The Vedic Atom was my mirror. Whatever I said or did, thought or felt was a reflection me looking at myself and owning whatever I saw. Who was that pretty girl in that mirror, there? Who could that attractive girl be? Just little ol' me clinging to my ego's small self, believing my reality was the more important than anyone else's was in the whole wide world. Every time I emerged from the mirror, I felt another layer of ego had been stripped away. After the snake sheds his skin, he is all shiny-new and feeling a little raw. As I've said, it wasn't easy. I ended up on a team of perhaps the most experienced and brilliant TM teachers I have ever had the privileged to know. Maharishi knew most of them personally from previous courses and wanted our team to have the most sought after TM center in the country, PAC Pal. After we formed our teams, about 10 or 12, we had a big send-off celebration in the dome where we actually made a pledge. Part of the pledge was to agree on everything. I took this impossible task to heart and decided to give it my all. Simply put, it was a prescription for surrendering your ego or drive yourself crazy resisting the process. By the time we completed the formation of the Vedic I knew exactly the nature of my commitment. I could have backed out at anytime. But I didn't. I chose to follow my heart into to the mystery of I don't know and what an amazing journey it was.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health? Judy wrote: He's pretty strange, You've been posting on the internet for what, fifteen years or more, and I'm the strange one? Maybe so - some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to, I guess. For the record, I am still on the TMO list - I get things in the mail all the time. I'm living about a mile from the Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge at Radiance, Texas - I am a TMer and a Citizen Sidha in good standing. Still on the program after all these years - TMer number 214 in the U.S.A., according to Beaulah Smith. That's me, the one with the silly grin on his face: What, holding the flower? http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/images/mmy64.jpg but I don't think his penchnt for entertaining himself by trolling and putting people on qualifies him as mentally ill. It's quite clear to those of us who've observed his behavior for many years that he doesn't actually believe his own nonsense; he just gets off on freaking folks out who take him seriously. He rationalizes this by thinking of himself as a kind of crazy wisdom trickster, i.e., one who appears crazy but is actually conveying a higher wisdom by challenging people's attachment to mundane reality. Whether he's successful at this or is just indulging his own ego is another question entirely. Me, I suspect he's subconsciously afraid he'll be rejected as a serious person if he puts himself out there as such, so he deliberately sabotages that possibility. Which is actually a shame, because he *does* have a lot of genuine knowledge and understanding to contribute. Every once in a while you'll see a bit of it in his posts. So, it's all about willytex? What I Did Last Summer: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 10:39 AM, raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com wrote: When I agreed on to be on the Vedic Atom I freely, and willingly made a pledge, a commitment to Maharishi to take direction from him. The mission of the Atom was to establish a Capital of the Age of Enlightenment in cities assigned to the Atom. I've only known two sets of /male/ Vedic atoms. Both of them acted like God's gift to National Socialism. The set in Florida taught us Age of Enlightenment Technique #1 (out of 12 so far). The psychiatrist who was part of our group, Dr. Balend (sp?) said that they reminded him of new preachers (he was from North Carolina, I believe). Dr. Balend was flying the plane, incidentally, that was giving a free ride to people representing Maharishi in their quest for a place to put a capital in North Carolina. When the plane crashed, Maharishi changed his mind about NC. The group I met in Austin didn't mix with us citizen sidhas. They did an amazingly long program. I remember that I had received an Ayurvedic consult and taught to yodel certain ways before program to balance certain doshas. I as usual raced down to the Austin Capital, got on my flying clothes,. sat in the dark and seeing no one about, commenced my yodeling. Out behind a curtain came a member of the Vedic Atom, very upset that I had interrupted the divine program. It appears that it took 10 women to do what 3 men did, because I had only ever heard mention of 3 men in a Vedic Atom.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'. Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. please tell us more about it. where is it located and who showed it to you. when? in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about the list. Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have access to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or worked in the course office approving applications. Most of the folks doing that have always been women. When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago. You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like vedic atom were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid announcing that they were now part of a vedic atom?) The Council of Supreme Intelligence. So 50's SciFi! So what years were you there? Is that facility still there? The Vedic Atom went to PAC Pal from Fairfield in late summer of 1980. We were there just about 2 months until Maharishi invited us to join him in India. We arrived in India in November just in time for Diwali. The Atom returned to PAC Pal the following March. We were there another two months, then we shipped out to Palo Alto. I made a commitment to stay with the Atom and stay I did, until the Fall of 1981. A whole year. It was the most ego bruising experience of my life. It was a combination of being in the military and being married to ten people at the same time. The dictum was, Agree on everything. I gave it my all and it wasn't easy. Everything I felt or experienced with my senses as reality everything I thought was urgently important, turned out to be not important at all. The Atom ground my ego into toasty-o's. I had nothing left of me to hang on to. Resistance was futile. I had to go with the flow, surrender my small self and shred every remnant of ego or risk a battle with other egos equally attached to their reality. In a word, it was a lesson in detachment. It was challenging but I don't regret it. It just gives me some insight about how fiercely people are willing to defend their self-importance and hopefully I've gained some wisdom about picking my battles as well. I'm sure others have responded by now (I'm just logging on today) but I have to say this strikes more as an exercise in classic cult behavior (the dictum was agree on everything) than a lesson in detachment.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'. Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. please tell us more about it. where is it located and who showed it to you. when? in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about the list. Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have access to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or worked in the course office approving applications. Most of the folks doing that have always been women. When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago. You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like vedic atom were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid announcing that they were now part of a vedic atom?) The Council of Supreme Intelligence. So 50's SciFi! So what years were you there? Is that facility still there? Last I heard Yogananda's group bought it. As you know they were right next door to PAC Pal. It was a beautiful place. There was a view of a windmill next to a small lake. I took a picture of it and when I got home I managed to create a fairly nice looking painting of it. My Mom still has the painting hanging in one of her bedrooms. Indeed it was beautiful. I used to walk over there on Sundays to hear Dennis Weaver speak. (I of course had to keep this very quiet.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Raunchy: When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. Turq: So Raunchydog, in all that time that you were processing applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's, did you ever turn anyone down? If so, that probably does not fall into the category of causing you harm. But is is pos- sible that you caused *others* harm by just believing an unidentified male voice on the other end of the phone? Is it possible that you turned down someone's application because the unidentified voice on the other end of the phone said to out of spite, or because he thought that they might have once seen another spiritual teacher or done some- thing Off The Program? This line of reasoning seems far fetched and out of line. It is pure speculaton. We've heard from Raunchy that she acted in good faith. And now you're asking her if she thinks the course office was acting in good faith? Sort of like Isn't it possible Raunchy, isn't it entirely possible that the this UNIDENFIED, ANONYMOUS, -DO YOU HEAR ME ANONYMOUS voice on the other end of the line, might NOT have been acting in good faith. And isn't it true Raunchy, that an negative experience that the this unidentified voice may have had with a person named Todd sometime in his past, may have predudiced him against any applicant named Todd. Please Raunchy, tell the court, isn't this possible? Indeed, isn't it even likely this unidentied was voice was applying arbitrary standands for acceptance to a course., based on previous life experiences that affected his outlook, most likely in negative way that could have a profound effect on the individual applying including, but not limited to loss of self esteem, or divorce. Isn't this a possiblity Raunchy. Tell the court, yes, or no. And then Sal, chimes in that if Rauncy doesn't take this bait, then the point is proved. Or even more likely, if the answer isn't to Sal's satisfaction then the point is proved as well. I believe this is what is called baiting. And a little cheap IMO. If so, and someone was discriminated against and kept away from a course that even YOU would have to believe would be beneficial for them, does this present a case for YOUR unfounded beliefs being a tad harmful to someone else? Or is their experience of YOU turning them down all their experience, not yours? I'm SURE you can make a case for I was just doing my job, and following orders. But you don't even know WHOSE orders you were follow- ing. Do you not see something vaguely remin- iscent of Germany during WWII about this, where good Germans sent Jews somewhere (they didn't care where) because some unidentified male voice told them to? Do you get my point? Thanks for posting, Anything is possible, by the way. That's another evasion, and not the same as actually saying, There is a possibility that the TM critics are right and I am wrong, but it's the closest any of the people I addressed my question to have come to actually answering it. So that makes you the least pussy-like of any of them. Your certificate is in the mail. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: Now I've Got You, You Son of a Bitch? geezerfreak wrote: See, I am the eternal (man, why didn't you just go all the way and call yourself GOD) the thing is, WillyTex really IS nuts. You're still living in a trailer house in Fairfield, IA; trying to get into the women's dome; posting incessantly on the internet to an anti-TM news group, to a guy named boo and another named God, but I'm nuts? This is not just my opinion, by the way. But, why isn't your name on the TMO mailing list? You seem to be really interested in the TMers and their comings and goings. Just askin'. Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health? Run to Mommy, run - see a geezer run. OK, I give up Tex. Ya got me. I'm not a TM teacher, Governor, Siddha or any of it. I don't even do TM. I'm an operative for the CIA, hired 35 years ago to infiltrate the TMO and report back to the Supreme Council of Intelligence on its activities around the world. It was all going so well until you had to come along and blow my cover!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 26, 2009, at 12:24 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: This line of reasoning seems far fetched and out of line. It is pure speculaton. We've heard from Raunchy that she acted in good faith. And now you're asking her if she thinks the course office was acting in good faith? Sort of like Isn't it possible Raunchy, isn't it entirely possible that the this UNIDENFIED, ANONYMOUS, -DO YOU HEAR ME ANONYMOUS voice on the other end of the line, might NOT have been acting in good faith. And isn't it true Raunchy, that an negative experience that the this unidentified voice may have had with a person named Todd sometime in his past, may have predudiced him against any applicant named Todd. Please Raunchy, tell the court, isn't this possible? Indeed, isn't it even likely this unidentied was voice was applying arbitrary standands for acceptance to a course., based on previous life experiences that affected his outlook, most likely in negative way that could have a profound effect on the individual applying including, but not limited to loss of self esteem, or divorce. Isn't this a possiblity Raunchy. Tell the court, yes, or no. And then Sal, chimes in that if Rauncy doesn't take this bait, then the point is proved. Or even more likely, if the answer isn't to Sal's satisfaction then the point is proved as well. I believe this is what is called baiting. And a little cheap IMO. But fun nonetheless. :) Alright, lurk, here's a true experience of mine, just to show (at least IMO) what brainwashed groupies were in the TMO even years back (of which I consider myself to have been one, BTW, although thankfully not so far gone as I might have been): I was asked by someone who didn't have enough$$ to go on a course if I would help sponsor her, along with a few others. I was applying to the same course, so I said sure. Come to find out a week or two later, she then reported me, after getting the $$, for some minor OTP (gasp!) infringement, can't remember now what it even was. We both got on the course, BTW, but as geeze put it so well, it was just another dent in the armor that many of us wore in order to maintain the fiction that we were actually dealing with normal, well-intentioned people. We weren't. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
raunchy wrote: Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. Did you see a 'geezerfreak or a boo_lives on the list? They apparently thought I was nuts for even mentioning the list. Why did they want to keep the list a secret? Maybe it's because their names aren't on the list? Or, is it just in the nature of the TMOers to be secretive? Maybe the two informants have never even been to Fairfield. It sure looks to me like they've never tried to get in one of the Golden Domes. Anybody would know that the TMO has a list of TMers that are allowed inside the domes. I don't have access to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or worked in the course office approving applications. Most of the folks doing that have always been women. We have a very extensive list at the TM Ideal Village at Radiance, Texas, home of the Superradiance Program. I've seen the list many times - the Patanjali Dome list is shared with the Maharishi Dome at Radiance - there are many TMers in good standing who visit the two domes. All the domes, as far as I can tell, share the list, including the domes at Skelmersdale and at Siddhadorp. When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston Manor) from the Council of Supreme Intelligence had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. I am on the list of TMers who got initiated by Jerry Jarvis at SIMS in 1964 - I'm on the SIMS list. In order to get on the TM-Sidhi program I had to call Jerry to prove I was a TMer. Now I'm on the TM-Sidhi Program list. I've been on the Maharishi Dome list since 1976. When I visited the Patanjali Dome in Fairfield, I showed them my dome badge and I was allowed inside. Inside the Golden Dome: http://www.rwilliams.us/inside/ Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago. No, it was proabbly Lon P. Stacks. From what I've read, Stacks was the keeper of the list at Livingston Manor. He was one of the administrators at MIU Press.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Run to Mommy, run - see a geezer run. ...I'm an operative for the CIA, hired 35 years ago to infiltrate the TMO and report back to the Supreme Council of Intelligence on its activities around the world. So, you are on the CIA list.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Lurk: I believe this is what is called baiting. And a little cheap IMO. Sal: But fun nonetheless. :) Alright, lurk, here's a true experience of mine, just to show (at least IMO) what brainwashed groupies were in the TMO even years back (of which I consider myself to have been one, BTW, although thankfully not so far gone as I might have been): I was asked by someone who didn't have enough$$ to go on a course if I would help sponsor her, along with a few others. I was applying to the same course, so I said sure. Come to find out a week or two later, she then reported me, after getting the $$, for some minor OTP (gasp!) infringement, can't remember now what it even was. We both got on the course, BTW, but as geeze put it so well, it was just another dent in the armor that many of us wore in order to maintain the fiction that we were actually dealing with normal, well-intentioned people. We weren't. I understand. I got rejected from a course (or going to Zambia back in 77?) based on a very subjective termination by Reed Martin. I was in Livingson Manor at the time, and when it happened, a voice inside me said go home, go home. That may have been when the bonds to TMO started to weaken some.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health? Judy wrote: He's pretty strange, You've been posting on the internet for what, fifteen years or more, and I'm the strange one? Maybe so - some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to, I guess. For the record, I am still on the TMO list - I get things in the mail all the time. I'm living about a mile from the Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge at Radiance, Texas - I am a TMer and a Citizen Sidha in good standing. Still on the program after all these years - TMer number 214 in the U.S.A., according to Beaulah Smith. That's me, the one with the silly grin on his face: And a fine representative of the benefits of 40 years of TM/TMO you are! Perhaps you can speak for the DLF in its quest to get TM into schools. Kids, wanna be like me? Sign here.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 26, 2009, at 12:52 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: Lurk: I believe this is what is called baiting. And a little cheap IMO. Sal: But fun nonetheless. :) Alright, lurk, here's a true experience of mine, just to show (at least IMO) what brainwashed groupies were in the TMO even years back (of which I consider myself to have been one, BTW, although thankfully not so far gone as I might have been): I was asked by someone who didn't have enough$$ to go on a course if I would help sponsor her, along with a few others. I was applying to the same course, so I said sure. Come to find out a week or two later, she then reported me, after getting the $$, for some minor OTP (gasp!) infringement, can't remember now what it even was. We both got on the course, BTW, but as geeze put it so well, it was just another dent in the armor that many of us wore in order to maintain the fiction that we were actually dealing with normal, well-intentioned people. We weren't. I understand. I got rejected from a course (or going to Zambia back in 77?) based on a very subjective termination by Reed Martin. I was in Livingson Manor at the time, and when it happened, a voice inside me said go home, go home. That may have been when the bonds to TMO started to weaken some. Yeah, you mentioned that you might have described some experience a little too enthusiastically or something, and then they put you on some hit-list. This was one Lisa A who ratted on me, for what I've forgotten. But I'm pretty sure I started hearing the same voice. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 26, 2009, at 4:43 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: Inside the Golden Dome: http://www.rwilliams.us/inside/ Thanks for the great link. Yeah, thanks is right. Here's a terrific example of the pearls of wisdom to be found in today's TMO: In other words, the Golden Dome at Fairfield, (not to be confused with the Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge at Radience, Texas, home of the Superadiance program), is a sort of hollow tope, surmounted by a kalasa, supported by the amalaka in which the akasha, symbolizing dimensionless space, is supported by the linga, surmounting the eight-angled cintamani vajra, an 8-sided prototypic harmika with a rail surrounding the hypaethral pavilion constituting a veritible chaitya-garbha pradakshina with a nice fence around it! In any other group this insane gibberish would earn whoever had written it a one-way trip to the nearest asylum. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: Inside the Golden Dome: http://www.rwilliams.us/inside/ Thanks for the great link. The parasol, atop the Buddhist stupa, as at Sanci, at Sarnath and at Taxila, (circa 200 B.C.) the earliest evidence of edifice architecture in India, is the canopy of heaven, its pole being the cosmic axis mundi and the dome's surface is the earth. As a cosmic egg image it is preeminent among the aniconic images of the Buddha. When Maharishi came to inaugurate the dome, they tied an upside-down pine tree to the center beam atop the wooden framing of the dome. There were no walls, no ceiling, no floor, just beams and joints. We we had a clear view of the tree. Apparently, it had some symbolic significance...a parasol, perhaps? Cool. This is pure Buddhist vastu, except that inside the Golden Dome, at both Fairfield and at Radiance, is found hollowness, so that the yogic flyers can have room to enjoy, unobstructed. This, you have got to admit, is ingenious - a hollow stupa! A hollow stupa! Very cool. Maybe it was Willytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago. Answer: Chocolate chip. No, it was proabbly Lon P. Stacks. From what I've read, Stacks was the keeper of the list at Livingston Manor. He was one of the administrators at MIU Press. Darn Willytex, I was hoping it had been your disembodied voice I heard on the phone...star-crossed and all that, ya know...
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Apr 26, 2009, at 4:43 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: Inside the Golden Dome: http://www.rwilliams.us/inside/ Thanks for the great link. Yeah, thanks is right. Here's a terrific example of the pearls of wisdom to be found in today's TMO: In other words, the Golden Dome at Fairfield, (not to be confused with the Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge at Radience, Texas, home of the Superadiance program), is a sort of hollow tope, surmounted by a kalasa, supported by the amalaka in which the akasha, symbolizing dimensionless space, is supported by the linga, surmounting the eight-angled cintamani vajra, an 8-sided prototypic harmika with a rail surrounding the hypaethral pavilion constituting a veritible chaitya-garbha pradakshina with a nice fence around it! In any other group this insane gibberish would earn whoever had written it a one-way trip to the nearest asylum. Sal Thanks for checking in Sal. It's good to know the TMO bug has crawled so far up your ass, it completely dims the bulb in your clown chakra. One good insult deserves another.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Not true. I wore saris because I was in India. I never heard that Maharishi told anyone they HAD to wear a sari. The fact is, my western clothes were totally out of place. Compared to saris they were ugly as hell. I gladly traded my dark, monochromatic suit jackets, skits, blouses and heels for the amazing Technicolor designs of silk saris. I felt quite feminine in them, despite occasionally getting tangle foot. I thought it was really cool that a neat little stack of six saris, an entire wardrobe, took up only one small corner of my suitcase while my very bulky western clothes dominated the rest of the space. Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. Yep. We were on the program, every minute of every day. That is what I signed on for. I wasn't drafted into the military. I joined. We were loyal soldiers on a mission of peace. No one held a gun to my head and told me to march. No one fired a shot. No one slogged through mud and blood and we ate quite well, Indian food of course. We were in India at a very crucial time in history. Fifty Americans held captive in Iran. The era of détente ended. Soviet troops had invaded Afghanistan; their military forces were within 300 miles of the Indian Ocean, close to the Straits of Hormuz, a waterway for most of the world's oil. When Carter made his state of the Union address, January 23, 1980 he said: The Soviet Union is now attempting to consolidate a strategic position, therefore, that poses a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil We've increased and strengthened our naval presence in the Indian ocean, and we are now making arrangements for key naval and air facilities to be used by our forces in the region of northeast Africa and the Persian Gulf. The Carter Doctrine: http://www.answers.com/topic/carter-doctrine As you may recall, Maharishi was extremely concerned about the news of American ships blockading the Soviets in the Indian Ocean. Then one day, for no apparent reason, he never said exactly why, Maharishi had us reforming teams, make plans for travel visas, look at maps of India and plan how our teams would travel around the Indian coastline, teaching TM, I guess. So for a few days everyone went into hyper drive thinking about how they were going to get their travel arrangements organized on such short notice. Then nothing. Maharishi just dropped it. I felt like someone had just dumped me out of bed in the middle of a nice nap, just for the hell of it. A few days later, we got news the American ships had withdrawn the blockade. No one ever made a direct statement that we might had had anything to do with it. But I believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the Americans and the Soviets. For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read. I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. I didn't surrender to Maharishi's control. I willingly embraced the experience of being with him. No one forced me to do anything. I was there because I loved him and felt I was doing what little I could for a noble purpose, world peace. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below. Thanks. You are probably the only one arising from the rabble of FFLife who thinks so. But I'll take the compliment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Not true. I wore saris because I was in India. I never heard that Maharishi told anyone they HAD to wear a sari. The fact is, my western clothes were totally out of place. Compared to saris they were ugly as hell. I gladly traded my dark, monochromatic suit jackets, skits, blouses and heels for the amazing Technicolor designs of silk saris. I felt quite feminine in them, despite occasionally getting tangle foot. I thought it was really cool that a neat little stack of six saris, an entire wardrobe, took up only one small corner of my suitcase while my very bulky western clothes dominated the rest of the space. Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. Yep. We were on the program, every minute of every day. That is what I signed on for. I wasn't drafted into the military. I joined. We were loyal soldiers on a mission of peace. No one held a gun to my head and told me to march. No one fired a shot. No one slogged through mud and blood and we ate quite well, Indian food of course. We were in India at a very crucial time in history. Fifty Americans held captive in Iran. The era of détente ended. Soviet troops had invaded Afghanistan; their military forces were within 300 miles of the Indian Ocean, close to the Straits of Hormuz, a waterway for most of the world's oil. When Carter made his state of the Union address, January 23, 1980 he said: The Soviet Union is now attempting to consolidate a strategic position, therefore, that poses a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil We've increased and strengthened our naval presence in the Indian ocean, and we are now making arrangements for key naval and air facilities to be used by our forces in the region of northeast Africa and the Persian Gulf. The Carter Doctrine: http://www.answers.com/topic/carter-doctrine As you may recall, Maharishi was extremely concerned about the news of American ships blockading the Soviets in the Indian Ocean. Then one day, for no apparent reason, he never said exactly why, Maharishi had us reforming teams, make plans for travel visas, look at maps of India and plan how our teams would travel around the Indian coastline, teaching TM, I guess. So for a few days everyone went into hyper drive thinking about how they were going to get their travel arrangements organized on such short notice. Then nothing. Maharishi just dropped it. I felt like someone had just dumped me out of bed in the middle of a nice nap, just for the hell of it. A few days later, we got news the American ships had withdrawn the blockade. No one ever made a direct statement that we might had had anything to do with it. But I believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the Americans and the Soviets. For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read. I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. I didn't surrender to Maharishi's control. I willingly embraced the experience of being with him. No one forced me to do anything. I was there because I loved him and felt I was doing what little I could for a noble purpose, world peace. Uh-huh. You have the unmitigated hubris to believe that your attention to maps of India and thoughts of India's coastline caused American military ships to withdraw at the time. The Maharishi Effect' in action right Raunch? See Curtis, this is why I don't attempt much in the way of dialog with folks like this. I may as well be talking to my pet gold fish. At the same time, I do feel genuine compassion. You know whenever something rolls on the tube showing Christian evangelicals speaking in tongues or going nuts in various ways... I watch, but I
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Not true. I wore saris because I was in India. I never heard that Maharishi told anyone they HAD to wear a sari. The fact is, my western clothes were totally out of place. Compared to saris they were ugly as hell. I gladly traded my dark, monochromatic suit jackets, skits, blouses and heels for the amazing Technicolor designs of silk saris. I felt quite feminine in them, despite occasionally getting tangle foot. I thought it was really cool that a neat little stack of six saris, an entire wardrobe, took up only one small corner of my suitcase while my very bulky western clothes dominated the rest of the space. Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. Yep. We were on the program, every minute of every day. That is what I signed on for. I wasn't drafted into the military. I joined. We were loyal soldiers on a mission of peace. No one held a gun to my head and told me to march. No one fired a shot. No one slogged through mud and blood and we ate quite well, Indian food of course. We were in India at a very crucial time in history. Fifty Americans held captive in Iran. The era of détente ended. Soviet troops had invaded Afghanistan; their military forces were within 300 miles of the Indian Ocean, close to the Straits of Hormuz, a waterway for most of the world's oil. When Carter made his state of the Union address, January 23, 1980 he said: The Soviet Union is now attempting to consolidate a strategic position, therefore, that poses a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil We've increased and strengthened our naval presence in the Indian ocean, and we are now making arrangements for key naval and air facilities to be used by our forces in the region of northeast Africa and the Persian Gulf. The Carter Doctrine: http://www.answers.com/topic/carter-doctrine As you may recall, Maharishi was extremely concerned about the news of American ships blockading the Soviets in the Indian Ocean. Then one day, for no apparent reason, he never said exactly why, Maharishi had us reforming teams, make plans for travel visas, look at maps of India and plan how our teams would travel around the Indian coastline, teaching TM, I guess. So for a few days everyone went into hyper drive thinking about how they were going to get their travel arrangements organized on such short notice. Then nothing. Maharishi just dropped it. I felt like someone had just dumped me out of bed in the middle of a nice nap, just for the hell of it. A few days later, we got news the American ships had withdrawn the blockade. No one ever made a direct statement that we might had had anything to do with it. But I believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the Americans and the Soviets. For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read. I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. I didn't surrender to Maharishi's control. I willingly embraced the experience of being with him. No one forced me to do anything. I was there because I loved him and felt I was doing what little I could for a noble purpose, world peace. Uh-huh. You have the unmitigated hubris to believe that your attention to maps of India and thoughts of India's coastline caused American military ships to withdraw at the time. I report. You decide. The Maharishi Effect' in action right Raunch? See Curtis, this is why I don't attempt much in the way of dialog with folks like this. I may as well be talking to my pet gold
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO... LOL. I hereby vote geezerfreak the author of the best buzzword ever to be coined by a member of Fairfield Life -- cultwhipped. Says it all, in one word.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Not true. I wore saris because I was in India. I never heard that Maharishi told anyone they HAD to wear a sari. The fact is, my western clothes were totally out of place. Compared to saris they were ugly as hell. I gladly traded my dark, monochromatic suit jackets, skits, blouses and heels for the amazing Technicolor designs of silk saris. I felt quite feminine in them, despite occasionally getting tangle foot. I thought it was really cool that a neat little stack of six saris, an entire wardrobe, took up only one small corner of my suitcase while my very bulky western clothes dominated the rest of the space. Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. Yep. We were on the program, every minute of every day. That is what I signed on for. I wasn't drafted into the military. I joined. We were loyal soldiers on a mission of peace. No one held a gun to my head and told me to march. No one fired a shot. No one slogged through mud and blood and we ate quite well, Indian food of course. We were in India at a very crucial time in history. Fifty Americans held captive in Iran. The era of détente ended. Soviet troops had invaded Afghanistan; their military forces were within 300 miles of the Indian Ocean, close to the Straits of Hormuz, a waterway for most of the world's oil. When Carter made his state of the Union address, January 23, 1980 he said: The Soviet Union is now attempting to consolidate a strategic position, therefore, that poses a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil We've increased and strengthened our naval presence in the Indian ocean, and we are now making arrangements for key naval and air facilities to be used by our forces in the region of northeast Africa and the Persian Gulf. The Carter Doctrine: http://www.answers.com/topic/carter-doctrine As you may recall, Maharishi was extremely concerned about the news of American ships blockading the Soviets in the Indian Ocean. Then one day, for no apparent reason, he never said exactly why, Maharishi had us reforming teams, make plans for travel visas, look at maps of India and plan how our teams would travel around the Indian coastline, teaching TM, I guess. So for a few days everyone went into hyper drive thinking about how they were going to get their travel arrangements organized on such short notice. Then nothing. Maharishi just dropped it. I felt like someone had just dumped me out of bed in the middle of a nice nap, just for the hell of it. A few days later, we got news the American ships had withdrawn the blockade. No one ever made a direct statement that we might had had anything to do with it. But I believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the Americans and the Soviets. For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read. I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. I didn't surrender to Maharishi's control. I willingly embraced the experience of being with him. No one forced me to do anything. I was there because I loved him and felt I was doing what little I could for a noble purpose, world peace. Uh-huh. You have the unmitigated hubris to believe that your attention to maps of India and thoughts of India's coastline caused American military ships to withdraw at the time. The Maharishi Effect' in action right Raunch? See Curtis, this is why I don't attempt much in the way of dialog with folks like this. I may as well be talking to my pet gold fish. At the same time, I
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
(snip) But I believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the Americans and the Soviets. (snip) This is an interesting view of what putting your attention on something, when you are in a clear and peaceful state of consciousness... Something happens, a shift of energy The mystery of shifting the energy, from chaos to some kind of order. I would suggest now, that we can do the same thing, in a more self-directed way, since we know how to do it. There is danger in Pakastan, now, for India and for America, for the world. So, even a bit of attention on that area again, would be helpful, as we are gaining the ability to understand the way Maharishi worked, much of it by just innocently putting our nurturing and loving attention on an area, where there is a vacumn of nurturing and loving Energy. Just the intention to shift the energy. In a tiniest quantum way, the wind blows, the clouds form, the lightning comes, and the disturbing influences are cleared... It's part of the magical mystery tour, we are spinning on, called: Life on Planet Earth, circa 2009. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Not true. I wore saris because I was in India. I never heard that Maharishi told anyone they HAD to wear a sari. The fact is, my western clothes were totally out of place. Compared to saris they were ugly as hell. I gladly traded my dark, monochromatic suit jackets, skits, blouses and heels for the amazing Technicolor designs of silk saris. I felt quite feminine in them, despite occasionally getting tangle foot. I thought it was really cool that a neat little stack of six saris, an entire wardrobe, took up only one small corner of my suitcase while my very bulky western clothes dominated the rest of the space. Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. Yep. We were on the program, every minute of every day. That is what I signed on for. I wasn't drafted into the military. I joined. We were loyal soldiers on a mission of peace. No one held a gun to my head and told me to march. No one fired a shot. No one slogged through mud and blood and we ate quite well, Indian food of course. We were in India at a very crucial time in history. Fifty Americans held captive in Iran. The era of détente ended. Soviet troops had invaded Afghanistan; their military forces were within 300 miles of the Indian Ocean, close to the Straits of Hormuz, a waterway for most of the world's oil. When Carter made his state of the Union address, January 23, 1980 he said: The Soviet Union is now attempting to consolidate a strategic position, therefore, that poses a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil We've increased and strengthened our naval presence in the Indian ocean, and we are now making arrangements for key naval and air facilities to be used by our forces in the region of northeast Africa and the Persian Gulf. The Carter Doctrine: http://www.answers.com/topic/carter-doctrine As you may recall, Maharishi was extremely concerned about the news of American ships blockading the Soviets in the Indian Ocean. Then one day, for no apparent reason, he never said exactly why, Maharishi had us reforming teams, make plans for travel visas, look at maps of India and plan how our teams would travel around the Indian coastline, teaching TM, I guess. So for a few days everyone went into hyper drive thinking about how they were going to get their travel arrangements organized on such short notice. Then nothing. Maharishi just dropped it. I felt like someone had just dumped me out of bed in the middle of a nice nap, just for the hell of it. A few days later, we got news the American ships had withdrawn the blockade. No one ever made a direct statement that we might had had anything to do with it. But I believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the Americans and the Soviets. For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read. I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. I didn't surrender to Maharishi's control. I willingly embraced the experience of being with him. No one forced me to do anything. I was there because I loved him and felt I was doing what little I could for a noble purpose, world peace. Uh-huh. You have the unmitigated hubris to believe that your attention to maps of India and thoughts of India's coastline caused American military ships to withdraw at the time. The Maharishi Effect' in action right Raunch? See Curtis, this is why I don't attempt much in the way of dialog with folks like this. I may as well be talking to my pet gold fish. At the same time, I do
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 24, 2009, at 11:43 PM, raunchydog wrote: Rather, it is a product of Maharishi's good sense and planning, interleaved and inseparable from his unique culture. OK. Now I can completely stop taking you seriously.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 25, 2009, at 12:23 AM, raunchydog wrote: Not by me. Nothing wrong with wanting to save the world. Agreed. Somebody has to do it. Maharishi's World Peace Plan inspired me to become a teacher. It still inspires me. How could anyone not be inspired by the hope of a better day, a kinder world, and a more fulfilling life for everyone? Cynics laugh at idealism. I don't. No cynics laugh at people who make such claims while laughing all the way to the bank, while students doing the techniques have very serious nervous breakdowns, episodes of dangerous and bizarre behavior, suicidal and homicidal ideation, threats and attempts, psychotic episodes, crime, depression and manic behavior, tax fraud and money laundering goes on, people got horrible diseases and maladies on the India courses from living in terrible insanitary conditions, he has sex with his students--just to mention a few of the types of things Mr. World Peace was really doing. Yeah, he did SUCH a great job. I'd say you need deprogrammed REAL bad is what I'd say.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Just the intention to shift the energy. In a tiniest quantum way, the wind blows, the clouds form, the lightning comes, and the disturbing influences are cleared... You've been listening to too much John Hagelin who has a similar effect on people's thought processes to ingesting too much LSD. Just by saying the word quantum everyone's critical abilities are zapped and they start experiencing wild cognitive hallucinations. Any nonsense idea can be made to appear plausible just by using the word quantum somewhere in the explanation. At least with LSD it wears off in a few hours. Your statement expresses completely incorrect thinking and it doesn't become correct by being dressed up in quasi-sciency sounding words. What's the mechanism? Can each step in the mechanism be demonstrated? How exactly does in the tiniest quantum way alter the weather? Can anyone demonstrate any ability to alter quantum probabilities by power of thought? If the probabilities are altered then how much effect can that have on billions of tons of air and water moving about? None of these things are explained, it's just feelgood happy mush suitable for the cognitively challenged.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Remember what Maharishi said about how to 'Destroy your Enemy?' 'Make Him/Her your friend'. 'Unity is Invincibility'...Separateness is always vulnerable... That's the theory, but we can see that the practice is different. In theory the TMO should be making friends with its detractors, but in practice it comes after them with lawsuits to stop them revealing things which are embarrassing but true. Ignore what people say, watch carefully what they do.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 24, 2009, at 11:16 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. Did he ever express any other desires to the women on that course? :) He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. This is so obvious to anyone who's had anything to do with the TMO in the last 30 years it seems incredible to even have to say it! One wonders in what dim-ension raunchy has been operating in if she somehow missed that. Where exactly does the whole idea of saris come from? For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read. I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 25, 2009, at 7:58 AM, guyfawkes91 wrote: Just the intention to shift the energy. In a tiniest quantum way, the wind blows, the clouds form, the lightning comes, and the disturbing influences are cleared... You've been listening to too much John Hagelin who has a similar effect on people's thought processes to ingesting too much LSD. Just by saying the word quantum everyone's critical abilities are zapped and they start experiencing wild cognitive hallucinations. My thought processes must not have gotten the memo-- all I experience is boredom, intense boredom. Any nonsense idea can be made to appear plausible just by using the word quantum somewhere in the explanation. At least with LSD it wears off in a few hours. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Curtis wrote: I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. Have you ever wondered why you're so easy to control, Curtis? I've never heard of anyone being under the absolute control of another. I wonder how much control you have over your life now - maybe you're still under the Marshy's control - that would really be strange. I've discovered that people seldom really change, so I'm just wondering how you made the change from being totally controlled to be totally in control of your life. You still can't seem to resist responding to the Marshy-talk. Why haven't you moved on after all these years? Just askin'.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Sal Sunshine wrote: This is so obvious to anyone who's had anything to do with the TMO in the last 30 years... So, Sal, how much have you had to do with the TMO in the last 30 years? Are you still living in the trailer-house in Fairfield? Have you ever been out of Jefferson County? Just askin'.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Rather, it is a product of Maharishi's good sense and planning, interleaved and inseparable from his unique culture. OK. Now I can completely stop taking you seriously. Well, certainly the Marshy can't compare to all your great accomplishments in life, Vaj. So, seriously, what have you ever done to make the world a better place? I know you've been pushing sects and various religions for years, but what, exactly, have you been able to accomplish with all your years of cult activity? Just askin'.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Not true. I wore saris because I was in India. I never heard that Maharishi told anyone they HAD to wear a sari. I said expressed a desire which is all it took from him. I was just objecting to the idea that he wasn't behind the whole woman's sari business. He actually started it with women on World Government years before. It was the outfit of movement royalty for years and when the rest of the teacher got a chance to wear them in India they jumped at the chance. I left a month before the guys were allowed to wear dhotis but the guys ended up in Indian garb as well. IMO the sari only looks good on Western women who can walk like an Asian woman. When Western women put their heads down and charge ahead like they are late for a board meeting they look ridiculous in any version of Asian clothes. As an example of the difference, when I dated a woman from Russia I could pick her out in a crowd at the mall by how she walked. Like Indian women she short of shimmered like Jeeves in the Woodhouse novels. And I was not making a criticism of how cool it was to wear a sari. Of course it was. What a great chance to experiment with another culture, which was one of my favorite things about my past movement experience. But anything any of us wore there was directed by Maharishi. (Guys arrived in dusty hot Delhi in suits and ties for God's sake!) And not because we HAD to. But because every word out of the guy's mouth was passed on as the best idea in the world and we jumped at a chance to do what the MASTER DESIRED. snip Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. Yep. We were on the program, every minute of every day. That is what I signed on for. I wasn't drafted into the military. I joined. We were loyal soldiers on a mission of peace. No one held a gun to my head and told me to march. No one fired a shot. Again, I was not making a point about coercion. I loved my movement involvement too. No one slogged through mud and blood and we ate quite well, Indian food of course. Actually...I ended up in NOIDA so I did slog though the mud and we were not eating quite well, we were drinking water that had been put through water filters washed in the Indian Express toilets (eye witness) the toilets of NOIDA were built ABOVE the water pump so we bathed is sewage, the tanks for heating up our water never boiled they only increased the microbe content by making it warmer and I was not the only one to get as sick as a dog. The course was a disaster from a public health standpoint and our wellfare was dealt with in a slipshod manor. And I loved being there. It is one of my most cherished life experiences. (I do wish I had seem more of the country.) Snip But I believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the Americans and the Soviets. This represents the magical claims section. And I don't need to dog you out for holding them. But I find it interesting that this belief that our attention solving world problems is sort of an unofficial movement teaching that goes contrary to the Maharishi effect claims. The claim is based not on some arbitrarily chosen number (The square root of 1%!) but on a smaller number of people putting your attention on a map. If it were true, then all the movement is totally slacking in their role as powerful attention givers. The domes should be lined with maps and your rest period should be spent not on imagining what color pashmina shawl you want to buy (this what the dudes do during rest) but staring at maps and making the world a better place. But this technique is not used. As a student of belief systems I find this unofficial belief,which was very common in the movement, curious. Remember the story of how Maharishi walked between India and China during their problems that Jerry or Charlie used to tell? It was another version of this claim that his walking prevented more trouble and I believe it was linked to his beard going gray. In your version we all got to be super heroes who could use
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil. I wanna be like you when I grow up. No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy. She expresses the kind of heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts. Plus without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine! And I love's my cynical bastard routine! Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read. I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below. Thanks. You are probably the only one arising from the rabble of FFLife who thinks so. But I'll take the compliment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some watered down version that loses its effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is secure enough to endure leadership foibles and growing pains just as it always has. It will always have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off the reservation who will teach, who knows what. Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity or at least for a very long time. snip The argument can certainly be made that the TMO shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization, but that's how its founder saw it from the very beginning, and there isn't really anything that can be done about it now; it isn't going to change in that regard. I don't believe Maharishi thought of the TMO as a crusading, messianic organization. Certainly, these are loaded words meant to malign. But, no. In the early days, it was more like, he had a bunch of unkempt hippies on TTC who needed direction, structure, discipline and routine, if he hoped to hone their ability to teach with any requisite precision. Undoubtedly, discipline and routine will evoke rigidity and extremism in extremist personalities, (usually Fascists or Communists) but so what. Organizations must remain organized or disband. Did you ever spend a lot of time around Maharishi, Raunch? I'm not asking whether you were in the audience at TTC (come to think of it, were you ever trained as a teacher?) or an SCI course or something.but did you ever work closely with MMY? I was always amused when I would get back in the states and hear meditators complaining about TMO weirdness. It was always if Maharishi only
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil. I wanna be like you when I grow up. No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy. She expresses the kind of heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts. Plus without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine! And I love's my cynical bastard routine! Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! Right, whether we choose cynicism or idealism, it is still a choice. It's interesting that cynicism is just as invested in crushing idealism as the idealist is in ignoring the hysteria underlying the cautions of the cynic. Ha Ha if you believe THAT, then you must think pigs can fly. Sister, you are in serious need of cult deprogramming. So certain, the cynic of his beliefs, so superior in his wisdom of caution, he never stops to think he might be to one in need of deprogramming. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: I bought a bunch of saris and that is all I wore, and still I felt out of place. Snip He did not fit into our culture and he never asked anyone to fit into his. The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies on that course. He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to immediately. Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it. Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India. For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read. I am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the world know what absolute control he had over our lives. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below. Thanks. You are probably the only one arising from the rabble of FFLife who thinks so. But I'll take the compliment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some watered down version that loses its effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is secure enough to endure leadership foibles and growing pains just as it always has. It will always have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off the reservation who will teach, who knows what. Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity or at least for a very long time. snip The argument can certainly be made that the TMO shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization, but that's how its founder saw it from the very beginning, and there isn't really anything that can be done about it now; it isn't going to change in that regard. I don't believe Maharishi thought of the TMO as a crusading, messianic organization. Certainly, these are loaded words meant to malign. But, no. In the early days, it was more like, he had a bunch of unkempt hippies on TTC who needed direction, structure, discipline and routine, if he hoped to hone their
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil. I wanna be like you when I grow up. No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy. She expresses the kind of heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts. Plus without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine! And I love's my cynical bastard routine! Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! Right, whether we choose cynicism or idealism, it is still a choice. It's interesting that cynicism is just as invested in crushing idealism as the idealist is in ignoring the hysteria underlying the cautions of the cynic. Ha Ha if you believe THAT, then you must think pigs can fly. Sister, you are in serious need of cult deprogramming. So certain, the cynic of his beliefs, so superior in his wisdom of caution, he never stops to think he might be to one in need of deprogramming. spot on- the cynics are not above the naivete of the idealist, just 180 degrees opposed. they have exactly same emotional attachment in being rock solid in their assumptions, and desire to fix the outcome of the object in question- in this case the practice of TM. the cynic and the idealist (or 'TB' and 'anti-TB') are both attempting to do the same thing, predict the future by eliminating ambiguity, and resist change.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'. Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. please tell us more about it. where is it located and who showed it to you. when? in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil. I wanna be like you when I grow up. No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy. She expresses the kind of heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts. Plus without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine! And I love's my cynical bastard routine! Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! Right, whether we choose cynicism or idealism, it is still a choice. It's interesting that cynicism is just as invested in crushing idealism as the idealist is in ignoring the hysteria underlying the cautions of the cynic. Ha Ha if you believe THAT, then you must think pigs can fly. Sister, you are in serious need of cult deprogramming. So certain, the cynic of his beliefs, so superior in his wisdom of caution, he never stops to think he might be to one in need of deprogramming. spot on- the cynics are not above the naivete of the idealist, just 180 degrees opposed. they have exactly same emotional attachment in being rock solid in their assumptions, and desire to fix the outcome of the object in question- in this case the practice of TM. the cynic and the idealist (or 'TB' and 'anti-TB') are both attempting to do the same thing, predict the future by eliminating ambiguity, and resist change. 2 people each with over 30 yrs experience practicing tm and working within the tmo or living in ffld have a discussion here about their disappointments and dislikes regarding their experiences with the tmo and immediately another person feels the fervent need to come into that discussion and label them cynics trying to crush all good and idealism in the world. sorry, that is not a distinction between cynics and idealists, but just a fundamentalist getting pissed off that someone left their sect. someone who pooh poohs tm because they think MMY laughs funny or because all meditation is flaky is a cynic, not someone sincerely discussing their 30 yrs experience. and someone who gets tired of fake idealistic talk and groupthink in favor of a more real path is still an idealist.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil. I wanna be like you when I grow up. No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy. She expresses the kind of heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts. Plus without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine! And I love's my cynical bastard routine! Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! There is a fascination that I think we all have (those who are now outside lookin' in that is) with folks who, after all these years and all of the clear evidence in front of them, still buy the basic party line. And I don't mean this in a petri dish way. As I said before I am acutely aware of the fact that I held same beliefs for many years. And, the fact isshe could be right about all of this and I could be dead wrong. But I long ago made a decision to use my own noggin' to determine my course of action and my belief system. The incredible freedom I felt from removing the cloak of the MMY/TMO belief structure was.dare I say it.enlightening! At Rick's suggestion I'm reading the book just out by an ex insider of Sri Chinmoy, Cartwheels In A Sari. Highly recommended! You'll quickly see the many parallels with MMY and the TMO. Back to Raunch. I don't dislike her, but I can't say I like her either. I'd have to hang with her to form more of an opinion. However, I can say that I'm glad that she's here. (Unlike Nabby who I honestly don't miss at all. His utter mean spiritedness was wearing.) Raunch was offended by the way I expressed myself but hey, she's plays rough too at times. If we hung out, we'd probably have a grand old time. Have fun in Florence. Man...the food, the women, the whole nine yards of it! You're going to have a blast!
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: raunchy wrote: I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... geezerfreak wrote: That's rich Raunch... So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. Just askin'. Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. please tell us more about it. where is it located and who showed it to you. when? in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about the list.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: snip There is a fascination that I think we all have (those who are now outside lookin' in that is) with folks who, after all these years and all of the clear evidence in front of them, still buy the basic party line. And I don't mean this in a petri dish way. As I said before I am acutely aware of the fact that I held same beliefs for many years. And, the fact isshe could be right about all of this and I could be dead wrong. But I long ago made a decision to use my own noggin' to determine my course of action and my belief system. And you don't think she does too?? On what basis do you suggest that the only decision that shows one is using one's own noggin is the decision to *reject* TM? We all make our best guess on the basis of our intellect and experience. We may have somewhat similar experiences of the externals, but we may interpret those experiences differently. Maybe we're right, maybe we're wrong. But to suggest only *one* interpretation is a function of using one's noggin makes no sense. You don't have any more of a lock on The Truth than the TMers do. I don't believe much of anything; that's why I refer to my support of TM and its teachings as working hypotheses. As far as the Maharishi Effect and flying go, I won't go any further than that I can't rule them out. Somehow I don't think you'd be willing to say even that much.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: snip There is a fascination that I think we all have (those who are now outside lookin' in that is) with folks who, after all these years and all of the clear evidence in front of them, still buy the basic party line. And I don't mean this in a petri dish way. As I said before I am acutely aware of the fact that I held same beliefs for many years. And, the fact isshe could be right about all of this and I could be dead wrong. But I long ago made a decision to use my own noggin' to determine my course of action and my belief system. And you don't think she does too?? On what basis do you suggest that the only decision that shows one is using one's own noggin is the decision to *reject* TM? We all make our best guess on the basis of our intellect and experience. We may have somewhat similar experiences of the externals, but we may interpret those experiences differently. Maybe we're right, maybe we're wrong. But to suggest only *one* interpretation is a function of using one's noggin makes no sense. You don't have any more of a lock on The Truth than the TMers do. I don't believe much of anything; that's why I refer to my support of TM and its teachings as working hypotheses. As far as the Maharishi Effect and flying go, I won't go any further than that I can't rule them out. Somehow I don't think you'd be willing to say even that much. Judy, Judydid I say that MY decision to reject the TMO (btw, I don't reject TM, I still do it) was the only correct way for everyone? No. I said that this was my own decision about my own course of action. I then went on to say that Raunch could be completely right and I could be utterly wrong. But you know that already and still you chose to LIE. (Wait a minute...am I writing this or you? I get so confused.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil. I wanna be like you when I grow up. No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy. She expresses the kind of heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts. Plus without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine! And I love's my cynical bastard routine! Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! Right, whether we choose cynicism or idealism, it is still a choice. It's interesting that cynicism is just as invested in crushing idealism as the idealist is in ignoring the hysteria underlying the cautions of the cynic. Ha Ha if you believe THAT, then you must think pigs can fly. Sister, you are in serious need of cult deprogramming. So certain, the cynic of his beliefs, so superior in his wisdom of caution, he never stops to think he might be to one in need of deprogramming. spot on- the cynics are not above the naivete of the idealist, just 180 degrees opposed. they have exactly same emotional attachment in being rock solid in their assumptions, and desire to fix the outcome of the object in question- in this case the practice of TM. the cynic and the idealist (or 'TB' and 'anti-TB') are both attempting to do the same thing, predict the future by eliminating ambiguity, and resist change. 2 people each with over 30 yrs experience practicing tm and working within the tmo or living in ffld have a discussion here about their disappointments and dislikes regarding their experiences with the tmo and immediately another person feels the fervent need to come into that discussion and label them cynics trying to crush all good and idealism in the world. sorry, that is not a distinction between cynics and idealists, but just a fundamentalist getting pissed off that someone left their sect. someone who pooh poohs tm because they think MMY laughs funny or because all meditation is flaky is a cynic, not someone sincerely discussing their 30 yrs experience. and someone who gets tired of fake idealistic talk and groupthink in favor of a more real path is still an idealist. Curtis labeled himself as a cynic. I labeled myself as an idealist. In between, we live in shades of gray. The cynic who insists the world is black or white, does indeed live to crush idealism. There isn't any wiggle room in their life for beauty, magic and surrender of the heart. It makes them feel ill. If someone says they believe in unicorns, the cynic's blood boils with excitement at the thought of packing the unicorn believer into a box and sending them off to the trash compactor. Curtis is not a cynic who lives in a black and white world. He is an idealistic cynic, a purist, a magnanimous spirit, confident enough in himself to treat the unicorn believer with respect. When it comes to Maharishi and I wear my heart on my sleeve, I am well aware that I have made myself a target for derision from cynics living in the world of black and white. Curtis trusts his instincts, has a genuine interest in truthful self-inquiry and courageous go-it-alone attitude about his spiritual path. I respect his choice. I choose differently. Maharishi never failed or mislead me. I have always felt confident in his direction. There is no right or wrong in any of this. Curtis loves his spiritual path and I love mine.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: snip There is a fascination that I think we all have (those who are now outside lookin' in that is) with folks who, after all these years and all of the clear evidence in front of them, still buy the basic party line. And I don't mean this in a petri dish way. As I said before I am acutely aware of the fact that I held same beliefs for many years. And, the fact isshe could be right about all of this and I could be dead wrong. But I long ago made a decision to use my own noggin' to determine my course of action and my belief system. And you don't think she does too?? On what basis do you suggest that the only decision that shows one is using one's own noggin is the decision to *reject* TM? We all make our best guess on the basis of our intellect and experience. We may have somewhat similar experiences of the externals, but we may interpret those experiences differently. Maybe we're right, maybe we're wrong. But to suggest only *one* interpretation is a function of using one's noggin makes no sense. You don't have any more of a lock on The Truth than the TMers do. I don't believe much of anything; that's why I refer to my support of TM and its teachings as working hypotheses. As far as the Maharishi Effect and flying go, I won't go any further than that I can't rule them out. Somehow I don't think you'd be willing to say even that much. Judy, Judydid I say that MY decision to reject the TMO (btw, I don't reject TM, I still do it) was the only correct way for everyone? No. I said that this was my own decision about my own course of action. I then went on to say that Raunch could be completely right and I could be utterly wrong. It looked as though you were saying that *you* used your noggin and she didn't, which kind of spoiled the effect of your saying she could be right and you wrong. If that isn't what you meant, I take it back. It wouldn't have been the first time a TM(O) critic had made such a suggestion, though.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: Curtis is not a cynic who lives in a black and white world. He is an idealistic cynic, a purist, a magnanimous spirit, confident enough in himself to treat the unicorn believer with respect. When it comes to Maharishi and I wear my heart on my sleeve, I am well aware that I have made myself a target for derision from cynics living in the world of black and white. Curtis trusts his instincts, has a genuine interest in truthful self-inquiry and courageous go-it-alone attitude about his spiritual path. I respect his choice. I choose differently. Maharishi never failed or mislead me. I have always felt confident in his direction. There is no right or wrong in any of this. Curtis loves his spiritual path and I love mine. Nicely said Raunchy. Curtis comes off to me as a skeptic, rather than as a cynic, but not closed minded. There is a difference between skepticism and closedmindetudiness (to use a Curtis type word).
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental check mark of cultwhipped in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil. I wanna be like you when I grow up. No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy. She expresses the kind of heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts. Plus without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine! And I love's my cynical bastard routine! Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! Right, whether we choose cynicism or idealism, it is still a choice. It's interesting that cynicism is just as invested in crushing idealism as the idealist is in ignoring the hysteria underlying the cautions of the cynic. Ha Ha if you believe THAT, then you must think pigs can fly. Sister, you are in serious need of cult deprogramming. So certain, the cynic of his beliefs, so superior in his wisdom of caution, he never stops to think he might be to one in need of deprogramming. spot on- the cynics are not above the naivete of the idealist, just 180 degrees opposed. they have exactly same emotional attachment in being rock solid in their assumptions, and desire to fix the outcome of the object in question- in this case the practice of TM. the cynic and the idealist (or 'TB' and 'anti-TB') are both attempting to do the same thing, predict the future by eliminating ambiguity, and resist change. 2 people each with over 30 yrs experience practicing tm and working within the tmo or living in ffld have a discussion here about their disappointments and dislikes regarding their experiences with the tmo and immediately another person feels the fervent need to come into that discussion and label them cynics trying to crush all good and idealism in the world. sorry, that is not a distinction between cynics and idealists, but just a fundamentalist getting pissed off that someone left their sect. someone who pooh poohs tm because they think MMY laughs funny or because all meditation is flaky is a cynic, not someone sincerely discussing their 30 yrs experience. and someone who gets tired of fake idealistic talk and groupthink in favor of a more real path is still an idealist. Curtis labeled himself as a cynic. I labeled myself as an idealist. In between, we live in shades of gray. The cynic who insists the world is black or white, does indeed live to crush idealism. There isn't any wiggle room in their life for beauty, magic and surrender of the heart. It makes them feel ill. If someone says they believe in unicorns, the cynic's blood boils with excitement at the thought of packing the unicorn believer into a box and sending them off to the trash compactor. Curtis is not a cynic who lives in a black and white world. He is an idealistic cynic, a purist, a magnanimous spirit, confident enough in himself to treat the unicorn believer with respect. When it comes to Maharishi and I wear my heart on my sleeve, I am well aware that I have made myself a target for derision from cynics living in the world of black and white. Curtis trusts his instincts, has a genuine interest in truthful self-inquiry and courageous go-it-alone attitude about his spiritual path. I respect his choice. I choose differently. Maharishi never failed or mislead me. I have always felt confident in his direction. There is no right or wrong in any of this. Curtis loves his spiritual path and I love mine. I have no problem with that at all.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: snip As you may recall, Maharishi was extremely concerned about the news of American ships blockading the Soviets in the Indian Ocean. Then one day, for no apparent reason, he never said exactly why, Maharishi had us reforming teams, make plans for travel visas, look at maps of India and plan how our teams would travel around the Indian coastline, teaching TM, I guess. So for a few days everyone went into hyper drive thinking about how they were going to get their travel arrangements organized on such short notice. Then nothing. Maharishi just dropped it. I felt like someone had just dumped me out of bed in the middle of a nice nap, just for the hell of it. A few days later, we got news the American ships had withdrawn the blockade. No one ever made a direct statement that we might had had anything to do with it. But I believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the Americans and the Soviets. snip I am impressed that you are tough enough to post this knowing the predictable responses. Curtis's was the most interesting as he has the history that I don't. I know you know that you are not presenting a proof, but a belief. You don't force your belief on others which I respect. My problem with this kind of belief is that for some people, (not you, Raunchy), it turns into a disrespect for those who do not share the belief, to the extent that others are viewed as somehow defective. Listen to Nabby sometimes talk about how defective we non-believers are. Now coming from Nabby is one thing, but when it comes from people you personally know it is another. For example, I have been told that my system is not subtle enough to feel the effects of various things like east facing homes, gemstones, and various supplements. It isn't subtle because I do not meditate regularly. As a result I can only appreciate things on a gross level. So, my opinion as to the value of any of these things is totally irrelevant. I have been told that outside scientists opinions on the state of the research is irrelevant as they cannot appreciate the subtleties that the TMO researchers appreciate. A couple of people have told me that they can, by directing their intention, influence others, even influence the outcome of a card game of all things. And why not? After all, if you believe meditating in a group lowered crime, why wouldn't your own attention give you an Ace in a game of cards? They make cognitive errors concerning winning streaks, not understanding the nature of random distributions include winning streaks. Their losing streaks are explained away. So, the problem for me is that I want to respect your belief. After all, it cannot be disproved. But I have trouble respecting these kinds of beliefs. Unsupported beliefs have caused all sorts of trouble in the world. Animals, from bears to rhinos are killed and driven to near extinction because of magical beliefs in the properties of a body part. Women are subjected to a subservient role in many religions. Criminals are convicted on eyewitness testimony in the face of contrary evidence because of the belief that what you see can't be wrong. Some people would rather take an unproven supplement than take a blood pressure pill that has been used for years, studied extensively, and shown both safe and effective. Separate and apart from your beliefs, I respect you Raunchy. You have tried to take the high road more and more often here, as you have in this thread. But I worry about this stuff.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Apr 25, 2009, at 11:27 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Thanks for the CD plug brother. I heading over to Florence for two weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more churches than Italian jails! A little Delta by the Duomo! What you just read Bruneschelli's Dome and you had to check it out? Really Florence has to be one of the most fascinating places in the west--the birthplace of the Renaissance. I'm a big Francesco Giorgi and Neoplatonism fan, so it's always a place I wanted to visit. When the Jew's were kicked out of Spain in 1492 (on the day Columbus left), many went to Sicily and Italy, thus the Kabbalah first is found in Europe in Firenzia. The first Jewish ghetto was in Venice, and there's a museum there I've always wanted to visit. Hopefully you're taking a camera! Any chance of blogging the visit?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: It was a public lecture. People aren't allowed to videotape it? I've often wondered whether they'd find some angle to have FFL taken down, or certain material removed from it. Is it possible to backup the archives and files of FFL? Outside of Yahoo. The members list would be the most valuable. Archives can be found on the net and I would wager the files could be replaced readily. A members list provides a swift way to populate a new venue when one disappears due to technical issues or malevolence. I noticed sometime back that the MEMBERS link on the FFL disappeared. I presume this was a Moderator's decision.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. boo wrote: Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing in ffld willy. I didn't see your name on the list when I last visited the Fairfield TM Center. They said they never heard of a boo_lives. Are you some kind of an impostor or just a plain old informant? Just askin'. please tell us more about it. Why are so curious about the list? Do you plan on trying to get back on it? Or, are you wanting to get your name OFF the 'black list'? Do you think I can help you get on the list? I haven't seen any evidence that you're a TM Teacher or that you ever even tried TM. Are you still living in that trailer house in Fairfield? Can you post here a picture of yourself with the Marshy? Or, even a photo of yourself inside the Patanjali Dome? Or even a photo of yourself outside the Patanjali Dome? Do you have a dome badge you could post or even a receipt showing you paid for your own initiation? where is it located and who showed it to you? when? So, you don't know about the list or where it's kept. I thought so. in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital operates there. You haven't been inside a Marshy Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge in years? wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know nothing about Well, I know more about TM than you do, that's pretty obvious, isn't it? I mean, have you ever posted anything here that could be interpreted as knowledgeable? I may have missed it, but I don't think so.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. geezerfreak wrote: please tell us more about it. So, geezer, were you not on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom. You've never been to India. Your name is not on the list of TM teachers in good standing. There is no geezerfreak on the list. What else do you want to know?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I didn't see your name on the list of TMO Teachers the last time I was in Fairfield. geezerfreak wrote: please tell us more about it. So, geezer, were you not on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom. You've never been to India. Your name is not on the list of TM teachers in good standing. There is no geezerfreak on the list. What else do you want to know? Not a thing Willy boy. Boo, in case it's not obvious this fella is nuttier than a fruitcake. Trying to dialog with him is useless. I do wonder thoughwas he always this way or was he damaged in um, some other way. I'll to have to ask Ned Wynn about it since I believe he knew Willy at one point back there
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:51 PM, geezerfreak geezerfr...@yahoo.com wrote: Boo, in case it's not obvious this fella is nuttier than a fruitcake. Trying to dialog with him is useless. I do wonder thoughwas he always this way or was he damaged in um, some other way. I'll to have to ask Ned Wynn about it since I believe he knew Willy at one point back there Why don't we just add to the homepage of FFL that the main purpose of the group is to sling nastygrams at each other? That anyone who joins has nothing better to do with his/her time (and karma) than to call others nasty names and characterize them in the worse possible way? Does anyone here have a concept of this thing called karma? Now I am characterized as being a hateful, deranged individual, yet I try whenever possible to avoid conflict unless really pushed. But all of these people here who are holier than I am somehow don't get Matt. 7:1. Yet they tell each other how much more evolved they are than the others here. In typical FFL fashion, a person who posted here that he wasn't happy with me couldn't take my reply that that's life and my feelings weren't hurt as an end of our exchange. He had to use a private email to tear me a new asshole and tell me that I'd have to suffer living in my hate for the rest of my life. Gosh. I wasn't even told such things at Our Lady of The Inquisition Catholic School when I was growing up. I replied back that I'm not suffering. Life's a ball and it's getting better day by day. I pointed out that the motive behind his email was *to vent his hate towards me*. I'm sure he didn't get it, as he can only see people one way: fitting into his expectations or not. Yeah, that shows how far along on the path he is. I forgave him. That's how hateful I was toward him. Would there actually be anything to post here if the main purpose of posting wasn't to engage in the Eric Berne game Now I've Got You, You Son of a Bitch?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:51 PM, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: Boo, in case it's not obvious this fella is nuttier than a fruitcake. Trying to dialog with him is useless. I do wonder thoughwas he always this way or was he damaged in um, some other way. I'll to have to ask Ned Wynn about it since I believe he knew Willy at one point back there Why don't we just add to the homepage of FFL that the main purpose of the group is to sling nastygrams at each other? That anyone who joins has nothing better to do with his/her time (and karma) than to call others nasty names and characterize them in the worse possible way? Does anyone here have a concept of this thing called karma? Now I am characterized as being a hateful, deranged individual, yet I try whenever possible to avoid conflict unless really pushed. But all of these people here who are holier than I am somehow don't get Matt. 7:1. Yet they tell each other how much more evolved they are than the others here. In typical FFL fashion, a person who posted here that he wasn't happy with me couldn't take my reply that that's life and my feelings weren't hurt as an end of our exchange. He had to use a private email to tear me a new asshole and tell me that I'd have to suffer living in my hate for the rest of my life. Gosh. I wasn't even told such things at Our Lady of The Inquisition Catholic School when I was growing up. I replied back that I'm not suffering. Life's a ball and it's getting better day by day. I pointed out that the motive behind his email was *to vent his hate towards me*. I'm sure he didn't get it, as he can only see people one way: fitting into his expectations or not. Yeah, that shows how far along on the path he is. I forgave him. That's how hateful I was toward him. Would there actually be anything to post here if the main purpose of posting wasn't to engage in the Eric Berne game Now I've Got You, You Son of a Bitch? See, I am the eternal (man, why didn't you just go all the way and call yourself GOD) the thing is, WillyTex really IS nuts. This is not just my opinion, by the way. Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 10:46 PM, geezerfreak geezerfr...@yahoo.com wrote: See, I am the eternal (man, why didn't you just go all the way and call yourself GOD) the thing is, WillyTex really IS nuts. This is not just my opinion, by the way. Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental health? Judy, like most of the ladies here except Sal show some class. But are you and Judy licensed mental health professionals? If so, can you diagnose someone from afar?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
(snip) Emmanuel did very well. The fools in the audiance that reacted to his words belongs to the generation of germans born after WWII, brainwashed by the americans to believe that the german people are trash and altogether a very dangerous people. These hillbillies took over all schools, threw out all books and made new ones fitting for the americans and their ridicelous capitalism (we see where that idea is going now) and even banned their National Anthem ! Now the same ubermensh, the utterly foolish americans, the white trash of the West here on FFL try to humilate a true german ! (snip) Why feel humilated; The German history isn't all your fault... Those German bastards, thinking they were superior, started two world wars, and lost both of them! Ever hear of Karma? R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html This isn't the only recent case of the TMO getting heavy with people. My guess is that Bevan is the driving force behind the new heavy handed attitude to detractors since he's basically a bully and enjoys that sort of thing. Comments? The Schiffgens clip was an absolutely cringe inducing performance worthy the Gong Show. Lynch was heroic. He did his best to treat Schiffgens with respect and well as keep an angry mob from storming the stage. Bless his heart. The TM critics have always had plenty of ammo available to dissuade people from starting TM. This clip is just one more bomb in the arsenal. They will persist and may dissuade a few here and there, but they will not prevail. People who want to start TM will start regardless of any amount of dirty laundry the TM critics unload. It might even make some folks curious enough to start TM just to see what all the fuss was. It's much more exhilarating for TM critics to say, Hey, look at that idiot, Schiffgens, if you do TM you might end up like HIM, than say, Lynch has the patience of a saint, if you do TM you might end up like HIM. In either case, it is a mistake to judge the value of TM by the actions of an idiot or a saint. There is no measure of idiocy or sainthood before, during or after TM. Whether we witness the actions of Schiffgens the buffoon, Lynch the angel of mercy or Bevan the fascist bully, TM will prevail as wholly separate from them. The point really is that these rajas are the top men in the TMO and if you're selling a technique you claim to be the ultimate in personal development and it turns out that the people that have been doing it for donkeys' years are a bunch of insane weirdos what are you going to think? At least that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's all very well just TMing and keeping your distance from the movement but would you have learned in the first place if you knew it was going to end up with this global monarchy of dubious bullshit?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some watered down version that loses its effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is secure enough to endure leadership foibles and growing pains just as it always has. It will always have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off the reservation who will teach, who knows what. Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity or at least for a very long time. I am the eternal, thinks the TMO kitsch and crowns are funny and since the TM works as advertised, he is content to let sleeping dogs lie. So don't bother telling him about other meditations. I agree with Eternal. I give TMO goofiness a pass because TM works as advertised However, TM critics, each from unique perspectives, routinely argue, TM does not work. Let's start with the usual suspects. Curtis: TM doesn't work for me and besides, most people stop TM. Obviously, it doesn't work for them either. So, you arrogant bunch of SOB's, don't presume you have the keys to a kingdom that does not exist or mislead children into practicing a religion, which will eventually disappoint them as I have been. Barry, master of non-sequitur: TM doesn't work? Well, neither does Purusha for that matter. Edg: Apart from his disappointment with himself and the TMO, I really don't know what Edg thinks about TM and whether or not it works. Vaj: Uhm..Buddhist meditation good, TM bad. TM not work. (Bonk!) Take that, TM vermin! Vaj exclaims as he projectile vomits longwinded Google posts about the minutia of superior Buddhist meditation. Fie! TM'er scum will reincarnate as dogs and cats! says he. The most interesting and personally encouraging thing I discovered in this thread is that there are a few TMO critics who, although they think TM works, their only real complaint is about the TMO's perceived flaws and not TM. Somehow, they have managed to appreciate the value of TM despite everything else being up for grabs in the TMO grumble machine. Here is the difficulty; defining exactly what is a wrong with the TMO is debatable and IMO, ultimately unimportant. Guyfawkes: TM on its own is pretty good, I quite like it It's a poison that gets into the group psyche, just like Bush and his minions getting off on torturing people. Over the top hyperbole, much? Comparing TMO to Bush torturers? Really? The TMO has definitely got the poison and it will be the end of the TMO because it is the antithesis of what they're supposed to achieve. The TMO will always have a new crop of unattractive warts popping up here and there who ever ends up running the show in the future. Every organization has a political life whose leadership wrestles with its mission for better or worse. We can complain endlessly about the TMO but I don't doubt that TM will prevail on its own merits regardless of TMO buffoonery. The best thing that can be said about TM in this situation is that at least the calming influence stops the more extreme elements going around getting physically violent with people. Well, thank God for that. Heaven knows, that had it not been for the calming effect of TM, those extreme TMers (who happen to be underweight vegetarians) just might have organized a pogrom against the non-TMers of Fairfield, marshaled some righteous pitchforks and poked non-believers in the ass until they agreed to learn TM. Which is what normally happens when people get the idea that they're so noble that they should dominate the rest of humanity. It's just mental and verbal violence. Armies, dominate. TM'ers meditate. I just don't get it that anyone needs to fear a few guys wearing crowns and robes. Think of it as playing dress up. Catholic priests wear some pretty cool robes and hats as well. Don't sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the view. The people in the audience now have a proper answer to their question what do you mean by invincibility. At the time DL tried to fudge the answer to mean peace and love, but now we know it's the same invincibility that Hitler wanted, smash your enemies and make everyone fear you. Again, this is over the top hyperbole. Maharishi never spoke of invincibility in the sense that Hitler thought of it, and you know it. Guyfawkes, you and I may agree or disagree about the shenanigans of the TMO but despite it all, I am grateful that we can agree that TM works. It gives me hope that people will continue to learn and enjoy TM for many years to come. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: In either case, it is a mistake to judge the value of TM by the actions of an idiot or a saint. There is no measure of idiocy or sainthood before, during or
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
this one not B.M. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@... wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html This isn't the only recent case of the TMO getting heavy with people. My guess is that Bevan is the driving force behind the new heavy handed attitude to detractors since he's basically a bully and enjoys that sort of thing. Comments?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
You didn't have my POV, why? - Original Message - From: raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some watered down version that loses its effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is secure enough to endure leadership foibles and growing pains just as it always has. It will always have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off the reservation who will teach, who knows what. Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity or at least for a very long time. I am the eternal, thinks the TMO kitsch and crowns are funny and since the TM works as advertised, he is content to let sleeping dogs lie. So don't bother telling him about other meditations. I agree with Eternal. I give TMO goofiness a pass because TM works as advertised However, TM critics, each from unique perspectives, routinely argue, TM does not work. Let's start with the usual suspects. Curtis: TM doesn't work for me and besides, most people stop TM. Obviously, it doesn't work for them either. So, you arrogant bunch of SOB's, don't presume you have the keys to a kingdom that does not exist or mislead children into practicing a religion, which will eventually disappoint them as I have been. Barry, master of non-sequitur: TM doesn't work? Well, neither does Purusha for that matter. Edg: Apart from his disappointment with himself and the TMO, I really don't know what Edg thinks about TM and whether or not it works. Vaj: Uhm..Buddhist meditation good, TM bad. TM not work. (Bonk!) Take that, TM vermin! Vaj exclaims as he projectile vomits longwinded Google posts about the minutia of superior Buddhist meditation. Fie! TM'er scum will reincarnate as dogs and cats! says he. The most interesting and personally encouraging thing I discovered in this thread is that there are a few TMO critics who, although they think TM works, their only real complaint is about the TMO's perceived flaws and not TM. Somehow, they have managed to appreciate the value of TM despite everything else being up for grabs in the TMO grumble machine. Here is the difficulty; defining exactly what is a wrong with the TMO is debatable and IMO, ultimately unimportant. Guyfawkes: TM on its own is pretty good, I quite like it.It's a poison that gets into the group psyche, just like Bush and his minions getting off on torturing people. Over the top hyperbole, much? Comparing TMO to Bush torturers? Really? The TMO has definitely got the poison and it will be the end of the TMO because it is the antithesis of what they're supposed to achieve. The TMO will always have a new crop of unattractive warts popping up here and there who ever ends up running the show in the future. Every organization has a political life whose leadership wrestles with its mission for better or worse. We can complain endlessly about the TMO but I don't doubt that TM will prevail on its own merits regardless of TMO buffoonery. The best thing that can be said about TM in this situation is that at least the calming influence stops the more extreme elements going around getting physically violent with people. Well, thank God for that. Heaven knows, that had it not been for the calming effect of TM, those extreme TMers (who happen to be underweight vegetarians) just might have organized a pogrom against the non-TMers of Fairfield, marshaled some righteous pitchforks and poked non-believers in the ass until they agreed to learn TM. Which is what normally happens when people get the idea that they're so noble that they should dominate the rest of humanity. It's just mental and verbal violence. Armies, dominate. TM'ers meditate. I just don't get it that anyone needs to fear a few guys wearing crowns and robes. Think of it as playing dress up. Catholic priests wear some pretty cool robes and hats as well. Don't sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the view. The people in the audience now have a proper answer to their question what do you mean by invincibility. At the time DL tried to fudge the answer to mean peace and love, but now we know it's the same invincibility that Hitler wanted, smash your enemies and make everyone fear you. Again, this is over the top hyperbole. Maharishi never spoke of invincibility in the sense that Hitler thought of it, and you know it. Guyfawkes, you and I may agree or disagree about the shenanigans of the TMO but despite it all, I am grateful that we can agree that TM works. It gives me hope that people will continue to learn and enjoy TM for many years to come
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcg...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html This isn't the only recent case of the TMO getting heavy with people. My guess is that Bevan is the driving force behind the new heavy handed attitude to detractors since he's basically a bully and enjoys that sort of thing. Comments? The Schiffgens clip was an absolutely cringe inducing performance worthy the Gong Show. Lynch was heroic. He did his best to treat Schiffgens with respect and well as keep an angry mob from storming the stage. Bless his heart. The TM critics have always had plenty of ammo available to dissuade people from starting TM. This clip is just one more bomb in the arsenal. They will persist and may dissuade a few here and there, but they will not prevail. People who want to start TM will start regardless of any amount of dirty laundry the TM critics unload. It might even make some folks curious enough to start TM just to see what all the fuss was. It's much more exhilarating for TM critics to say, Hey, look at that idiot, Schiffgens, if you do TM you might end up like HIM, than say, Lynch has the patience of a saint, if you do TM you might end up like HIM. In either case, it is a mistake to judge the value of TM by the actions of an idiot or a saint. There is no measure of idiocy or sainthood before, during or after TM. Whether we witness the actions of Schiffgens the buffoon, Lynch the angel of mercy or Bevan the fascist bully, TM will prevail as wholly separate from them. But what scares me, raunchydog, is that good people who would OTHERWISE give TM a chance won't as a result of seeing stuff like this. There's got to be a consistency of message. On the one hand, the TMO says it is not a religion, a philosophy, nor does the practise require a change in lifestyle. Then, on the other hand, we have rajahs dressed up like Star Trek characters talking in the most inappropriate ways about invincibility. I'd say that people who may want to start TM won't as a result...don't you agree? Don't worry Shemp. We have no proof that a guy wearing robes and a crown has ever taught anyone TM. If he did, obviously, he might scare a few faint of heart away from TM but rest assured, before the Raja enters the initiation room, he will don a suit and tie. Maharishi was quite clear on TTC that we should throw our blue jeans in the ocean and buy a cheap suit or, a man would not take the first step. He never said anything about Earthshoes in the '70's, but he should have. Ghastly footwear IMO. Maharishi's genius is that he made the teaching of TM so idiot proof that as long as a teacher is willing to follow the directions on the box, TM will work. Shake and bake. It is easy?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Apr 23, 2009, at 11:16 AM, do.rflex wrote: You'd do better to make the distinction between critics of the TMO and critics of TM. To me, Transcendental Meditation properly taught is indeed a gift from God to humanity. The TMO on the other hand has for a long time been a publicly insignificant, inept, pathetic and clownish embarrassment. And you really think it's realistic to try and separate the two, flex? While I appreciate the TM itself [properly taught], I wouldn't send anyone to learn it from the current TMO, and haven't for years. The very few that I've recommended to do it since I left teaching within the TMO around 25 years ago, I've initiated myself. I agree with you. For many years I've been reluctant to bring up the subject of TM with anyone because I have been embarrassed by the price. But if someone was curious to learn TM from their side, I had no problem directing them to a TM Center. We can argue endlessly about the antics of the TMO, but I'm glad we can agree that TM is a beautiful meditation practice, when properly taught. Ahh, but therein lies the rub. Properly taught. The TMO with all its growing pains, manifesting and purifying before our eyes, is the only organization capable of perpetuating the teaching of TM. It's the girl we took to the dance and even though she got drunk and made a fool of herself, she is OUR girl and it is our responsibility to get her home safely. The TMO is run by a bunch of clownish, inept dolts (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course) because those are the only ones left. The reason they're the only ones left is because everyone with a functioning brain left years if not decades ago. The reason nobody replaced them is because for a lot of people, TM either didn't work, didn't work well enough, or, like me, they simply got bored to tears after deciding they had gotten whatever benefits from the technique they were likely to. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 7:18 PM, raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com wrote: It's the girl we took to the dance and even though she got drunk and made a fool of herself, she is OUR girl and it is our responsibility to get her home safely. Thank you, Raunch. Well put in terms of an old saying that used to ring true when people still had honor and felt responsibility. Bygone times, alas.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk kirk_bernha...@... wrote: You didn't have my POV, why? To which POV are you referring? Unless I've missed something,I don't think of you as a TM critic. Anyway, not getting a mention is probably a good thing. - Original Message - From: raunchydog raunchy...@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:53 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some watered down version that loses its effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is secure enough to endure leadership foibles and growing pains just as it always has. It will always have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off the reservation who will teach, who knows what. Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity or at least for a very long time. I am the eternal, thinks the TMO kitsch and crowns are funny and since the TM works as advertised, he is content to let sleeping dogs lie. So don't bother telling him about other meditations. I agree with Eternal. I give TMO goofiness a pass because TM works as advertised However, TM critics, each from unique perspectives, routinely argue, TM does not work. Let's start with the usual suspects. Curtis: TM doesn't work for me and besides, most people stop TM. Obviously, it doesn't work for them either. So, you arrogant bunch of SOB's, don't presume you have the keys to a kingdom that does not exist or mislead children into practicing a religion, which will eventually disappoint them as I have been. Barry, master of non-sequitur: TM doesn't work? Well, neither does Purusha for that matter. Edg: Apart from his disappointment with himself and the TMO, I really don't know what Edg thinks about TM and whether or not it works. Vaj: Uhm..Buddhist meditation good, TM bad. TM not work. (Bonk!) Take that, TM vermin! Vaj exclaims as he projectile vomits longwinded Google posts about the minutia of superior Buddhist meditation. Fie! TM'er scum will reincarnate as dogs and cats! says he. The most interesting and personally encouraging thing I discovered in this thread is that there are a few TMO critics who, although they think TM works, their only real complaint is about the TMO's perceived flaws and not TM. Somehow, they have managed to appreciate the value of TM despite everything else being up for grabs in the TMO grumble machine. Here is the difficulty; defining exactly what is a wrong with the TMO is debatable and IMO, ultimately unimportant. Guyfawkes: TM on its own is pretty good, I quite like it.It's a poison that gets into the group psyche, just like Bush and his minions getting off on torturing people. Over the top hyperbole, much? Comparing TMO to Bush torturers? Really? The TMO has definitely got the poison and it will be the end of the TMO because it is the antithesis of what they're supposed to achieve. The TMO will always have a new crop of unattractive warts popping up here and there who ever ends up running the show in the future. Every organization has a political life whose leadership wrestles with its mission for better or worse. We can complain endlessly about the TMO but I don't doubt that TM will prevail on its own merits regardless of TMO buffoonery. The best thing that can be said about TM in this situation is that at least the calming influence stops the more extreme elements going around getting physically violent with people. Well, thank God for that. Heaven knows, that had it not been for the calming effect of TM, those extreme TMers (who happen to be underweight vegetarians) just might have organized a pogrom against the non-TMers of Fairfield, marshaled some righteous pitchforks and poked non-believers in the ass until they agreed to learn TM. Which is what normally happens when people get the idea that they're so noble that they should dominate the rest of humanity. It's just mental and verbal violence. Armies, dominate. TM'ers meditate. I just don't get it that anyone needs to fear a few guys wearing crowns and robes. Think of it as playing dress up. Catholic priests wear some pretty cool robes and hats as well. Don't sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the view. The people in the audience now have a proper answer to their question what do you mean by invincibility. At the time DL tried to fudge the answer to mean peace and love, but now we know it's the same invincibility that Hitler wanted, smash your enemies and make everyone fear you. Again, this is over the top hyperbole. Maharishi never
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself. http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html This isn't the only recent case of the TMO getting heavy with people. My guess is that Bevan is the driving force behind the new heavy handed attitude to detractors since he's basically a bully and enjoys that sort of thing. Comments? The Schiffgens clip was an absolutely cringe inducing performance worthy the Gong Show. Lynch was heroic. He did his best to treat Schiffgens with respect and well as keep an angry mob from storming the stage. Bless his heart. The TM critics have always had plenty of ammo available to dissuade people from starting TM. This clip is just one more bomb in the arsenal. They will persist and may dissuade a few here and there, but they will not prevail. People who want to start TM will start regardless of any amount of dirty laundry the TM critics unload. It might even make some folks curious enough to start TM just to see what all the fuss was. It's much more exhilarating for TM critics to say, Hey, look at that idiot, Schiffgens, if you do TM you might end up like HIM, than say, Lynch has the patience of a saint, if you do TM you might end up like HIM. In either case, it is a mistake to judge the value of TM by the actions of an idiot or a saint. There is no measure of idiocy or sainthood before, during or after TM. Whether we witness the actions of Schiffgens the buffoon, Lynch the angel of mercy or Bevan the fascist bully, TM will prevail as wholly separate from them. The point really is that these rajas are the top men in the TMO and if you're selling a technique you claim to be the ultimate in personal development and it turns out that the people that have been doing it for donkeys' years are a bunch of insane weirdos what are you going to think? At least that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's all very well just TMing and keeping your distance from the movement but would you have learned in the first place if you knew it was going to end up with this global monarchy of dubious bullshit? I've have two compartments in my head. One for TM and one for the TMO. Being unable to fit the TMO square peg into the TM round hole, does not detract from either the peg or the hole. It's only a bother when you try to do the impossible. Relax. Like it or not the TMO will always be the standard-bearer for TM. It's what we've got. Get used to it, or feel miserable about it. Your choice.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some watered down version that loses its effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is secure enough to endure leadership foibles and growing pains just as it always has. It will always have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off the reservation who will teach, who knows what. Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity or at least for a very long time. snip The argument can certainly be made that the TMO shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization, but that's how its founder saw it from the very beginning, and there isn't really anything that can be done about it now; it isn't going to change in that regard. You're always going to have blindly devoted people running a messianic organization, and there will always be some who commit excesses of one sort or another. The TMO is what it is. As MMY used to say, The movement has its own karma. It's one thing to criticize the movement; goodness knows it deserves criticism. But it seems absurd to me to attack it so ferociously. It seems *especially* weird to ferociously attack those who decline to attack it ferociously, as if such attacks on the movement were the only acceptable way to respond to it, as if the attitude generating the attacks were the only RIGHT one to have and any other was despicably WRONG. It really is the mirror image of the TB stance that is so often the target of scorn here. That irony seems to be lost on many of the TM critics.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
(snip) The people in the audience now have a proper answer to their question what do you mean by invincibility. At the time DL tried to fudge the answer to mean peace and love, but now we know it's the same invincibility that Hitler wanted, smash your enemies and make everyone fear you. (snip) Yes, Hitler was fascism at it's best...it works for a while, but is far from 'Invincibility'... It's fake invincibility... Just like 'Dick' Cheney...still trying to be a good 'USA Nazi', but certainly not invincible. Remember what Maharishi said about how to 'Destroy your Enemy?' 'Make Him/Her your friend'. 'Unity is Invincibility'...Separateness is always vulnerable... Oh, yeah, about that little Adolf, what a schlep...take a cyanide capsule, and go shoot yourself, you total coward...have a nice wedding day, Adolf...have Eva kill herself too...nice honeymoon... R.g.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: I've have two compartments in my head. One for TM and one for the TMO. Being unable to fit the TMO square peg into the TM round hole, does not detract from either the peg or the hole. It's only a bother when you try to do the impossible. Relax. Like it or not the TMO will always be the standard-bearer for TM. It's what we've got. Get used to it, or feel miserable about it. Your choice. yeah! brilliant.
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below. Thanks. You are probably the only one arising from the rabble of FFLife who thinks so. But I'll take the compliment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some watered down version that loses its effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is secure enough to endure leadership foibles and growing pains just as it always has. It will always have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off the reservation who will teach, who knows what. Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity or at least for a very long time. snip The argument can certainly be made that the TMO shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization, but that's how its founder saw it from the very beginning, and there isn't really anything that can be done about it now; it isn't going to change in that regard. I don't believe Maharishi thought of the TMO as a crusading, messianic organization. Certainly, these are loaded words meant to malign. But, no. In the early days, it was more like, he had a bunch of unkempt hippies on TTC who needed direction, structure, discipline and routine, if he hoped to hone their ability to teach with any requisite precision. Undoubtedly, discipline and routine will evoke rigidity and extremism in extremist personalities, (usually Fascists or Communists) but so what. Organizations must remain organized or disband. You're always going to have blindly devoted people running a messianic organization, and there will always be some who commit excesses of one sort or another. The TMO is what it is. As MMY used to say, The movement has its own karma. Righto. It's one thing to criticize the movement; goodness knows it deserves criticism. But it seems absurd to me to attack it so ferociously. It seems *especially* weird to ferociously attack those who decline to attack it ferociously, as if such attacks on the movement were the only acceptable way to respond to it, as if the attitude generating the attacks were the only RIGHT one to have and any other was despicably WRONG. Yes. Sometimes I feel like I'm the cartoon character who gets slammed over the head with a frying pan for no apparent reason. Overkill. It really is the mirror image of the TB stance that is so often the target of scorn here. That irony seems to be lost on many of the TM critics. I've noticed that as well. Zealotry resides on either side of the fence. It just makes FFLife that much more interesting in the battle of wits. It needs but one foe to breed a war, and those who have not swords can still die upon them. J.R.R. Tolkien
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip The argument can certainly be made that the TMO shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization, but that's how its founder saw it from the very beginning, and there isn't really anything that can be done about it now; it isn't going to change in that regard. I don't believe Maharishi thought of the TMO as a crusading, messianic organization. Spiritually regenerate the whole world is what I had in mind... Certainly, these are loaded words meant to malign. Not by me. Nothing wrong with wanting to save the world. But, no. In the early days, it was more like, he had a bunch of unkempt hippies on TTC who needed direction, structure, discipline and routine, if he hoped to hone their ability to teach with any requisite precision. Undoubtedly, discipline and routine will evoke rigidity and extremism in extremist personalities, (usually Fascists or Communists) but so what. Organizations must remain organized or disband. Indeed. snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below. Thanks. You are probably the only one arising from the rabble of FFLife who thinks so. But I'll take the compliment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it is the only organization capable of teaching TM so that it remains TM, a simple mental technique, rather than some watered down version that loses its effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is secure enough to endure leadership foibles and growing pains just as it always has. It will always have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off the reservation who will teach, who knows what. Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity or at least for a very long time. snip The argument can certainly be made that the TMO shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization, but that's how its founder saw it from the very beginning, and there isn't really anything that can be done about it now; it isn't going to change in that regard. I don't believe Maharishi thought of the TMO as a crusading, messianic organization. Certainly, these are loaded words meant to malign. But, no. In the early days, it was more like, he had a bunch of unkempt hippies on TTC who needed direction, structure, discipline and routine, if he hoped to hone their ability to teach with any requisite precision. Undoubtedly, discipline and routine will evoke rigidity and extremism in extremist personalities, (usually Fascists or Communists) but so what. Organizations must remain organized or disband. Did you ever spend a lot of time around Maharishi, Raunch? I'm not asking whether you were in the audience at TTC (come to think of it, were you ever trained as a teacher?) or an SCI course or something.but did you ever work closely with MMY? I was always amused when I would get back in the states and hear meditators complaining about TMO weirdness. It was always if Maharishi only knew what was going on, he would fix all of this! I'd chuckle and be a good little soldier and keep my mouth shut but the truth, as Rick or Barry or basically anyone here who ever worked with MMY knows, is that Maharishi was in on EVERYTHING that went down. He was the ultimate control freak. So you can blame extremism on extremist personalities but you better include Maharishi as the MOST extreme since he was basically at the heart of everything that went on. The rajasthe ridiculous costumes, every bit of weirdness emanating out of Vlodrop for years was not the work of a few extreme personalities. It was the work of one extreme personality. The underlings just execute the will of the master. Maharishi as the leader and full architect of a crusading, messianic organization? You better believe it!
