Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/27/2014 7:57 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote: I'll take 2 from Point #1 and 1 from Point #2 (old reference to Chinese restaurant menus, back-in-the days, and nights, weekends included. Dearest s3raphita (I just love how that sounds, running of my lips like wine, and women, and... Can you please explain how I can insert text as comments to your textual comments? Looks like fun! It probably depends on what software you are using as a news reader. You may be able to insert text as comments by hitting the REPLY button, and in the text box, placing your cursor at the end of the comment and hitting the ENTER key. Then key in your reply. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote : Re You are not going to get any more enlightenment than you are going to get. That's necessarily true by definition but isn't it a little vacuous? Re When you realize this, you will be free and there won't be any more stress.: Hmm. But isn't there a difference between 1) saying to yourself that nothing I do is going to make a blind bit of difference and carrying on as everyone else does (wine, women and song, or whatever else floats your boat), and 2) following a spiritual path - meditation, say - which only makes sense if you think the practice chosen will make *some* difference, however little, to your life? And re Dan's (following MMY): Material possessions are not a means of bondage. : SO, HAVING A PRISON CELL, WITH FEW POSSESSIONS may be the way to go? Watch 'Orange is the New Black' and get back to me. (i made this orange, but you made your orange, probably expecting me to write something about orange, right?) They sure are! What we think we own actually owns us. All the (pitifully few) possessions I have surrounding me right now are also what help define me as a person (my learned role play in this life). We all need certain basic essentials - and yes, what we regard as basic has expanded over the centuries - but beyond that point accumulating possessions is like decorating your prison cell. It makes you feel more at home (and so apathetic) but the point is to break down the prison walls and escape! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/26/2014 9:38 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Thanks, Richard, cool info. I once heard from a friend that we can fulfill those less than wonderful desires in dream state. And that counts too but doesn't, I guess, accrue any negative karma. It is obviously counter-productive to desire to be enlightened more than one is going to be enlightened. Desiring more than one is going to get leads to frustration, lamentation, and grief. It is impossible to to stop desiring, and at a more subtle level, it is fruitless to want to stop desiring more than one is going to stop desiring, relative to wanting to stop wanting. According to Professor A.J. Bahm, these practical difficulties do not invalidate the principle of wanting to attain a state of desirelessness, they merely indicate desire's universality, the subtlety with which it operates, the reason why it is commonly misunderstood, and the need for a special meditation to bring it into manageable operation. Base desire also works subtly, not merely because desires are emotively imprecise, but especially because the desire to prevent desiring more than will be attained is itself unconsciously desired too much. For whenever one desires to stop 'desiring more than will be attained', this additional, deeper desire also becomes a desire for more stopping than will be attained. Thus this additional, deeper desire requires its own additional, still deeper desire to stop desiring more stopping than will be attained. You are not going to get any more enlightenment than you are going to get. When you realize this, you will be free and there won't be any more stress. Any time there is stress there is wanting - even if it is wanting less stress. The answer to this riddle is actually very simple when you think about it. According to Bahm, /He who finally gives up trying to solve the problem of frustration, thereby becoming willing to accept his desires and frustrations for what they are, finds the problem solved./ On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:16 PM, 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... mailto:punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: ReI have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/27/2014 7:57 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote: I'll take 2 from Point #1 and 1 from Point #2 (old reference to Chinese restaurant menus, back-in-the days, and nights, weekends included. Dearest s3raphita (I just love how that sounds, running of my lips like wine, and women, and... Can you please explain how I can insert text as comments to your textual comments? Looks like fun! It probably depends on what software you are using as a news reader. You may be able to insert text as comments by hitting the REPLY button, and in the text box, placing your cursor at the end of the comment and hitting the ENTER key. Then key in your reply. Like here? Rich-in-Many-Ways, Guess what! Today is the day! Shipment Details http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FVC=3TG14KBDH777UH=TALCDXDPB4RA6X6B5D0BPVWARRYAT=CU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2F0140159746%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_30332190_TE_3p_dp_i1 We Will Always Live in Beverly Hills: Growing Up Crazy in Hollywood http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FVC=3TG14KBDH777UH=9QSAONOAQVPNSBFAAIWSWLW5NKUAT=CU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2F0140159746%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_30332190_TE_3p_dp_1 Sold by thrift_books Condition: Used - Good http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FVC=3TG14KBDH777UH=W0O8TGDOXCDQQVKFV1GAW6LA9IAAT=CU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%3A80%2Fgp%2Fredirect.html%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_30332190_cm_sw_cl_fa_sce%2F179-0170076-4274135%3F_encoding%3DUTF8%26location%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.facebook.com%252Fdialog%252Ffeed%253Fapp_id%253D164734381262%2526caption%253D%2526display%253Dpopup%2526link%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.amazon.com%25252Fdp%25252F0140159746%25252Fref%25253Dcm_sw_r_fa_sce%2526name%253D%2526picture%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fecx.images-amazon.com%25252Fimages%25252FI%25252F41I0ZLECbVL._SCLZZZ__SY115_SX115_.jpg%2526redirect_uri%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.amazon.com%25252Fdp%25252F0140159746%25252Fref%25253Dcm_sw_r_fa_sce%26source%3Dstandards%26token%3D6BD0FB927CC51E76FF446584B1040F70EA7E88E1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FVC=3TG14KBDH777UH=AJRZAEEAHREDF6NHKZKEMLNMYZOAT=CU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%3A80%2Fgp%2Fredirect.html%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_30332190_cm_sw_cl_tw_sce%2F179-0170076-4274135%3F_encoding%3DUTF8%26location%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Ftwitter.com%252Fshare%253Fcount%253Dnone%2526original_referer%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.amazon.com%25252Fdp%25252F0140159746%25252Fref%25253Dcm_sw_r_tw_sce%2526related%253Damazon%25252Camazondeals%25252Camazonmp3%2526text%253DWe%252520Will%252520Always%252520Live%252520in%252520Beverly%252520Hills%25253A%252520Growing%252520Up%252520Crazy%252520in%252520Hollywood%252520by%252520Amazon%2526twitterURL%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.amazon.com%25252Fdp%25252F0140159746%25252Fref%25253Dcm_sw_r_tw_sce%2526via%253Damazon%26source%3Dstandards%26token%3D7A1A4AE8F6CE0BD277D8295E58702D283F329C0F http://www.amazon.com/gp/r.html?R=336YSIZEJN9FVC=3TG14KBDH777UH=2XUBMX3ADCESBRLRAWNNAFKO2QCAT=CU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%3A80%2Fgp%2Fredirect.html%2Fref%3Dpe_385040_30332190_cm_sw_cl_pi_sce%2F179-0170076-4274135%3F_encoding%3DUTF8%26location%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fpinterest.com%252Fpin%252Fcreate%252Fbutton%252F%253Fdescription%253DWe%252520Will%252520Always%252520Live%252520in%252520Beverly%252520Hills%25253A%252520Growing%252520Up%252520Crazy%252520in%252520Hollywood%252520by%252520Amazon%25252C%252520http%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.amazon.com%25252Fdp%25252F0140159746%25252Fref%25253Dcm_sw_r_pi_sce%2526is_video%253Dfalse%2526media%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fecx.images-amazon.com%25252Fimages%25252FI%25252F41I0ZLECbVL._SCLZZZ__SY115_SX115_.jpg%2526title%253D%2526url%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.amazon.com%25252Fdp%25252F0140159746%25252Fref%25253Dcm_sw_r_pi_sce%26source%3Dstandards%26token%3D9F58B366258E1A8B5259E9BEF3482E02341F42D3 $2.79 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote : Re You are not going to get any more enlightenment than you are going to get. That's necessarily true by definition but isn't it a little vacuous? Re When you realize this, you will be free and there won't be any more stress.: Hmm. But isn't there a difference between 1) saying to yourself that nothing I do is going to make a blind bit of difference and carrying on as everyone else does (wine, women and song, or whatever else floats your boat), and 2) following a spiritual path - meditation, say - which only makes sense if you think the practice chosen will make *some* difference, however little, to your life? And re Dan's (following MMY): Material possessions are not a means of bondage. : SO, HAVING A PRISON CELL, WITH FEW POSSESSIONS may be the way to go? Watch 'Orange is the New Black' and get back to me. (i made this orange, but you made your orange, probably expecting me
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
My desires are strong in fulfillment.---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. Very good point. I think of ignorance as being chock a block full of desiring. Those who feel nothing but the relative are voracious in their appetite for all things material including power and fame if they can get it. Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire. In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Seraphita, what I experience is that when I'm settled in my body and energy field, my thoughts and emotions are settled too. Then any desire that arises is already fulfilled. I guess because that inner peace is the ultimate goal of all desires. So if we already are experiencing that, Bob's your uncle! On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:07 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Re Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire.: That's my understanding. There's a school of thought that says that when we desire some satisfaction our equilibrium is disturbed which we experience as suffering. When we satisfy the desire we feel good and naturally assume it is the pleasure we've just experienced that is making us content. But could it be that we're getting rid of the irritant that disturbed us and are simply re-establishing our natural balance and so are just happy being ourselves which is fulfilling in itself. New desires almost immediately spring up and we're off again. Buddha seems to be suggesting that cutting off the flow of tempting images which constantly enter our minds to entice us could be the solution. Dostoevsky, he say, The trouble with man is that he's happy but doesn't know it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: ReI have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. Very good point. I think of ignorance as being chock a block full of desiring. Those who feel nothing but the relative are voracious in their appetite for all things material including power and fame if they can get it. Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire. In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Share Seraphita together in a Yahoo Conversation! A young man's desire fulfilled.See how easily it works? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Seraphita, what I experience is that when I'm settled in my body and energy field, my thoughts and emotions are settled too. Then any desire that arises is already fulfilled. I guess because that inner peace is the ultimate goal of all desires. So if we already are experiencing that, Bob's your uncle! On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:07 PM, s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Re Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire.: That's my understanding. There's a school of thought that says that when we desire some satisfaction our equilibrium is disturbed which we experience as suffering. When we satisfy the desire we feel good and naturally assume it is the pleasure we've just experienced that is making us content. But could it be that we're getting rid of the irritant that disturbed us and are simply re-establishing our natural balance and so are just happy being ourselves which is fulfilling in itself. New desires almost immediately spring up and we're off again. Buddha seems to be suggesting that cutting off the flow of tempting images which constantly enter our minds to entice us could be the solution. Dostoevsky, he say, The trouble with man is that he's happy but doesn't know it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. Very good point. I think of ignorance as being chock a block full of desiring. Those who feel nothing but the relative are voracious in their appetite for all things material including power and fame if they can get it. Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire. In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Like Ann says, if you have not ever experienced the deep silence of 'the Self', a person becomes addicted to the whirlwind of desires, egoic desires. But, what I have found among those who have established silence within themselves, is that life becomes just one desire, over and over again. The desire is to manifest an external reality, matching the ever expanding internal reality. That means, dream big. Try for the impossible. Over and over again. Desires are always there, the whisperings of the infinite universe, to join it. There is infinite energy in the universe. So, if we are contacting that, established in that silence, which is the latent infinite energy of the universe, then the only desire left, is to find out how to tap into all that universal energy. How to manifest in our everyday lives, that which is silent and infinite within us. Just as I learned to meditate for years, and take the sayings of the saints into my mind for years, I also learned how to take on big desires, and allow the universe to manifest them. It is like a pot simmering on a back burner, what seems like forever, and then one day, soup's on! A clear example I can think of, was my desire to return to California, about twenty years ago. I was always more familiar with the culture here, vs. East Coast. I had spent a long time back there, working on my career, but always wanted to return the big natural beauty and softer culture of California - had also been born here, so it carried some vague sense of home. Took about ten years, but it happened. Then on to the next big desire. And so on. Many at once. It isn't any longer a sense of filling a void, but instead bringing into being, into the world, what is already joyfully there. Painting by numbers. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Seraphita, what I experience is that when I'm settled in my body and energy field, my thoughts and emotions are settled too. Then any desire that arises is already fulfilled. I guess because that inner peace is the ultimate goal of all desires. So if we already are experiencing that, Bob's your uncle! On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:07 PM, s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Re Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire.: That's my understanding. There's a school of thought that says that when we desire some satisfaction our equilibrium is disturbed which we experience as suffering. When we satisfy the desire we feel good and naturally assume it is the pleasure we've just experienced that is making us content. But could it be that we're getting rid of the irritant that disturbed us and are simply re-establishing our natural balance and so are just happy being ourselves which is fulfilling in itself. New desires almost immediately spring up and we're off again. Buddha seems to be suggesting that cutting off the flow of tempting images which constantly enter our minds to entice us could be the solution. Dostoevsky, he say, The trouble with man is that he's happy but doesn't know it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. Very good point. I think of ignorance as being chock a block full of desiring. Those who feel nothing but the relative are voracious in their appetite for all things material including power and fame if they can get it. Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire. In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
I'm with you.---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Like Ann says, if you have not ever experienced the deep silence of 'the Self', a person becomes addicted to the whirlwind of desires, egoic desires. But, what I have found among those who have established silence within themselves, is that life becomes just one desire, over and over again. The desire is to manifest an external reality, matching the ever expanding internal reality. That means, dream big. Try for the impossible. Over and over again. Desires are always there, the whisperings of the infinite universe, to join it. There is infinite energy in the universe. So, if we are contacting that, established in that silence, which is the latent infinite energy of the universe, then the only desire left, is to find out how to tap into all that universal energy. How to manifest in our everyday lives, that which is silent and infinite within us. Just as I learned to meditate for years, and take the sayings of the saints into my mind for years, I also learned how to take on big desires, and allow the universe to manifest them. It is like a pot simmering on a back burner, what seems like forever, and then one day, soup's on! A clear example I can think of, was my desire to return to California, about twenty years ago. I was always more familiar with the culture here, vs. East Coast. I had spent a long time back there, working on my career, but always wanted to return the big natural beauty and softer culture of California - had also been born here, so it carried some vague sense of home. Took about ten years, but it happened. Then on to the next big desire. And so on. Many at once. It isn't any longer a sense of filling a void, but instead bringing into being, into the world, what is already joyfully there. Painting by numbers. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Seraphita, what I experience is that when I'm settled in my body and energy field, my thoughts and emotions are settled too. Then any desire that arises is already fulfilled. I guess because that inner peace is the ultimate goal of all desires. So if we already are experiencing that, Bob's your uncle! On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:07 PM, s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Re Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire.: That's my understanding. There's a school of thought that says that when we desire some satisfaction our equilibrium is disturbed which we experience as suffering. When we satisfy the desire we feel good and naturally assume it is the pleasure we've just experienced that is making us content. But could it be that we're getting rid of the irritant that disturbed us and are simply re-establishing our natural balance and so are just happy being ourselves which is fulfilling in itself. New desires almost immediately spring up and we're off again. Buddha seems to be suggesting that cutting off the flow of tempting images which constantly enter our minds to entice us could be the solution. Dostoevsky, he say, The trouble with man is that he's happy but doesn't know it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. Very good point. I think of ignorance as being chock a block full of desiring. Those who feel nothing but the relative are voracious in their appetite for all things material including power and fame if they can get it. Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire. In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Thanks, Richard, cool info. I once heard from a friend that we can fulfill those less than wonderful desires in dream state. And that counts too but doesn't, I guess, accrue any negative karma. On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:16 PM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: ReI have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Isn't that one of the *beatitudes*? Blessed are the gullible fools, for they shall accept whatever they are given and like it or some such thing? On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 7:38 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Thanks, Richard, cool info. I once heard from a friend that we can fulfill those less than wonderful desires in dream state. And that counts too but doesn't, I guess, accrue any negative karma. On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:16 PM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: ReI have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/26/2014 8:51 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re You are not going to get any more enlightenment than you are going to get. That's necessarily true by definition but isn't it a little vacuous? If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state. But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the program. You should not have any thought about gaining a state of enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware. That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way - there is just the sitting without the striving. There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things, and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome. Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes. How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid extremes. Re When you realize this, you will be free and there won't be any more stress.: Hmm. But isn't here a difference between 1) saying to yourself that nothing I do is going to make a blind bit of difference and carrying on as everyone else does (wine, women and song, or whatever floats your boat) and 2) following a spiritual path - meditation, say - which only makes sense if you think the practice chosen will make *some* difference, however little, to your life? And re Dan's (following MMY): Material possessions are not a means of bondage. : They sure are! What we think we own actually owns us. All the (pitifully few) possessions I have surrounding me right now are also what help define me as a person (my learned role play in this life). We all need certain basic essentials - and yes, what we regard as basic has expanded over the centuries - but beyond that point accumulating possessions is like decorating your prison cell. It makes you feel more at home (and so apathetic) but the point is to break down the prison walls and escape! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/26/2014 9:38 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Thanks, Richard, cool info. I once heard from a friend that we can fulfill those less than wonderful desires in dream state. And that counts too but doesn't, I guess, accrue any negative karma. It is obviously counter-productive to desire to be enlightened more than one is going to be enlightened. Desiring more than one is going to get leads to frustration, lamentation, and grief. It is impossible to to stop desiring, and at a more subtle level, it is fruitless to want to stop desiring more than one is going to stop desiring, relative to wanting to stop wanting. According to Professor A.J. Bahm, these practical difficulties do not invalidate the principle of wanting to attain a state of desirelessness, they merely indicate desire's universality, the subtlety with which it operates, the reason why it is commonly misunderstood, and the need for a special meditation to bring it into manageable operation. Base desire also works subtly, not merely because desires are emotively imprecise, but especially because the desire to prevent desiring more than will be attained is itself unconsciously desired too much. For whenever one desires to stop 'desiring more than will be attained', this additional, deeper desire also becomes a desire for more stopping than will be attained. Thus this additional, deeper desire requires its own additional, still deeper desire to stop desiring more stopping than will be attained. You are not going to get any more enlightenment than you are going to get. When you realize this, you will be free and there won't be any more stress. Any time there is stress there is wanting - even if it is wanting less stress. The answer to this riddle is actually very simple when you think about it. According to Bahm, /He who finally gives up trying to solve the problem of frustration, thereby becoming willing to accept his desires and frustrations for what they are, finds the problem solved./ On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:16 PM, 'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... mailto:punditster@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: ReI have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Wonderful post! Thank you Edg! I had forgotten the effect the guys coming off the 6 month courses had in terms of priming the pump for us citizens of the A of E to get our siddhis. The first ones I ever saw were on residence courses in Atlanta at a Catholic retreat place called the St. Ignatius House, a place the Movement rented out for residence courses all the time. When the 6 month gov's began to appear they were whispered about, no one knew what they had been doing cause they weren't allowed to tell. Then when the Movement began to advertise the siddhis the Jesuits who ran the place refused to rent to the Movement anymore. Our local center in South Carolina called all the meditators together for a special knowledge meeting one Sunday - there might have been a dozen or so of us and they pitched the siddhis - I remember being pretty shocked at the idea of what they were saying but it wasn't long till we all got likkered up with the I'm gone be a Superman! mentality and the race to inner space was on. Until I looked at these posters, I had forgotten just how blatant and over the top the claims were in those days of TM is oh so scientific. Thanks for an honest post Edg. From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/24/2014 8:16 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? These posters look like they were designed by Barry when he was working at the TM Center in Westwood, CA. Barry is a big fan of levitation and so apparently when he applied for a job with Rama that was one of the reasons he got hired - to hand out flyers and tack up posters and rent lecture halls for levitation demonstrations. But, now he doesn't want to even talk about it. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Nice Share Edg. But what's with all the sue me stuff. Do you think anyone is going to take issue with your personal experiences, or your personal opinions? Plus, I always figured you for the I'm not the one who gets sued, I'M THE ONE WHO DOES THE SUING, type thing. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/24/2014 8:36 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? These posters don't look anything like posters I saw at the time - they are probably phoney, designed and put up by an impostor. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Do you think anyone is going to take issue with your personal experiences, or your personal opinions? I guess he figured you would just revile him the way you do me, Barry and Curtis if he were here. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Nice Share Edg. But what's with all the sue me stuff. Do you think anyone is going to take issue with your personal experiences, or your personal opinions? Plus, I always figured you for the I'm not the one who gets sued, I'M THE ONE WHO DOES THE SUING, type thing. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
And herein lies the issue. #1) I never reviled Curtis when he was here. #2) And a feature of Curtis is that he always replied in kind, as people replied to him. And, SURPRISE, that is why I always had a friendly relationship with him. If Barry cares to enumerate my real or perceived faults, I may be inclined to return the favor. I guess, I'm not above that. It is hard to argue with one's direct personal experience, as with Edg. I can relate to many things he says. But he also does not come here with some out of whack agenda whereby he turns any issue into an unbridled attack on MMY, and the TMO. If Edg feels he was bamboozled, at least he's been able to move on in a postive way. Methinks he may be further along that journey than you. But I'm pontificating here, so I'll just shut up about it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Do you think anyone is going to take issue with your personal experiences, or your personal opinions? I guess he figured you would just revile him the way you do me, Barry and Curtis if he were here. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Nice Share Edg. But what's with all the sue me stuff. Do you think anyone is going to take issue with your personal experiences, or your personal opinions? Plus, I always figured you for the I'm not the one who gets sued, I'M THE ONE WHO DOES THE SUING, type thing. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/24/2014 11:37 PM, Duveyoung wrote: How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! So, did you ever consult with a cult-exit counselor? Heh. Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/24/2014 11:05 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Sam Harris' book Waking Up, A Guide to Spirituality without Religion will be out next month. This should be interesting. Harris published the first chapter on his website, and he seems confident that it is possible to take spirituality out of the province of religion and put it in a fully rational and scientific venue, stripping out the superstition. M and his the movement took a stab at doing this, but never really succeeded and fell back into its Hindu roots either by fault or by design. Buddhism Without Beliefs serves as a solid, straightforward introduction that demystifies Buddhism and explains simply and plainly how its practice can enrich our lives. Avoiding jargon and theory, Batchelor concentrates on the concrete, making Buddhism accessible and compelling and showing how anyone can embark on this path-regardless of their religious background. Read more: 'Buddhism without Beliefs' by Stephen Batchelor Riverhead, 1998 http://tinyurl.com/3efphu http://tinyurl.com/3efphu To quote Harris: Authors who attempt to build a bridge between science and spirituality tend to make one of two mistakes: Scientists generally start with an impoverished view of spiritual experience, assuming that it must be a grandiose way of describing ordinary states of mind— parental love, artistic inspiration, awe at the beauty of the night sky. In this vein, one finds Einstein’s amazement at the intelligibility of Nature’s laws described as though it were a kind of mystical insight. New Age thinkers usually enter the ditch on the other side of the road: They idealize altered states of consciousness and draw specious connections between subjective experience and the spookier theories at the frontiers of physics. Here we are told that the Buddha and other contemplatives anticipated modern cosmology or quantum mechanics and that by transcending the sense of self, a person can realize his identity with the One Mind that gave birth to the cosmos. In the end, we are left to choose between pseudo-spirituality and pseudo-science... ...Spirituality/must/be distinguished from religion—because people of every faith, and of none, have had the same sorts of spiritual experiences. While these states of mind are usually interpreted through the lens of one or another religious doctrine, we know that this is a mistake. Nothing that a Christian, a Muslim, and a Hindu can experience—self-transcending love, ecstasy, bliss, inner light—constitutes evidence in support of their traditional beliefs, because their beliefs are logically incompatible with one another. A deeper principle must be at work. That principle is the subject of this book: The feeling that we call “I” is an illusion. There is no discrete self or ego living like a Minotaur in the labyrinth of the brain. And the feeling that there is—the sense of being perched somewhere behind your eyes, looking out at a world that is separate from yourself—can be altered or entirely extinguished. Although such experiences of “self-transcendence” are generally thought about in religious terms, there is nothing, in principle, irrational about them. From both a scientific and a philosophical point of view, they represent a clearer understanding of the way things are. Deepening that understanding, and repeatedly cutting through the illusion of the self, is what is meant by “spirituality” in the context of this book. WAKING UP: Chapter One : Sam Harris http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/chapter-one image http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/chapter-one WAKING UP: Chapter One : Sam Harris http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/chapter-one Sam Harris, neuroscientist and author of the New York Times bestsellers, The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation, and The Moral Landscape. View on www.samharris.org http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/chapter-one Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 12:08 AM, salyavin808 wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are telling me you never saw the second poster? A classic of daring bullshit, but I'd want to see an invisible person levitating before I signed up! We have an eye witness to hundreds of levitation events - why should I believe you instead of Barry? Somebody is obviously fibbing. Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA - call the LA center and ask them about it. Are you trying to imply that someone created these things to discredit the Movement? There are way too many people here on FFL who remember these for you to get by with that. If you want the source as to who has put it up on the internet, surely you have sense enough to realize it isn't anyone currently in good standing with the TMO - you think the Movement wants people to remember this shit? Do what I did and do an image search for transcendental meditation supernormal powers or transcendental meditation supernormal abilities - you will get slightly different results doing both. Now that I have wasted time teaching you how to do an image search, here is one more that will perhaps be to your liking since it has no mention of money for the lecture. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:36 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us.Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 5:22 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Wonderful post! Thank you Edg! I had forgotten the effect the guys coming off the 6 month courses had in terms of priming the pump for us citizens of the A of E to get our siddhis. Suggestibility is the quality of being inclined to accept and act on the suggestions of others. The first ones I ever saw were on residence courses in Atlanta at a Catholic retreat place called the St. Ignatius House, a place the Movement rented out for residence courses all the time. When the 6 month gov's began to appear they were whispered about, no one knew what they had been doing cause they weren't allowed to tell. Then when the Movement began to advertise the siddhis the Jesuits who ran the place refused to rent to the Movement anymore. Our local center in South Carolina called all the meditators together for a special knowledge meeting one Sunday - there might have been a dozen or so of us and they pitched the siddhis - I remember being pretty shocked at the idea of what they were saying but it wasn't long till we all got likkered up with the I'm gone be a Superman! mentality and the race to inner space was on. Until I looked at these posters, I had forgotten just how blatant and over the top the claims were in those days of TM is oh so scientific. Thanks for an honest post Edg. *From:* Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 12:37 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us.Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
As to the lawsuit scenario, MY GADAMM DREAM COME TRUE Brang it on! As to the last statement about the TMO - worse than anything I have ever said about the crum bums. Lets see if Buck, Nabby, Dr. Bronner's Protege and especially Steve have any squalling to say about it. I wonder if stevie can chalk it up to the idea of demons possessing the TMO big shots being just Edg's experience? And by the way THANKS Edg for a well written, erudite and completely spot on post. One of the best I have ever read on FFL. From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us. Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Don't you remember jr claims by jyotish she is bad stove up from some sort of accident? From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I had a few private e-mails with Judy a couple of years ago. That e-mail address is still live, but I have not tried to contact her. So whether she exists or not will not affect the address unless the account is shut down for non-payment with a local ISP. For example I have some ATT email addresses, but as they are in partnership with Yahoo; if I become incapacitated and do not pay my bills, I would lose only the POP and SMTP services that allow me to use an e-mail client with the accounts. Web mail, using a web browser would continue. So if an address is 'live' that really gives no information on whether there is a person behind it unless you know the details of the account, whether web mail is available, whether POP, SMTP, and also, IMAP is being used, and whether the address is associated with a free web mail provider like gmail.com or yahoo.com, or web mail is a paid service with the particular provider. I did a moderately extensive search for obituaries etc., news of hospital admissions, etc. a couple of months ago, but no results. Her last posts to FFL did not indicate anything unusual going on, seemed matter-of-fact, and then they just stopped. Based on what she has posted, she lives in an apartment about one block from the beach in New Jersey, so you can locate that apartment complex easily enough, probably find a phone number, or the complex's owner or caretaker, or just go there and knock on the door. I figure, minus meals, it would cost me about US$125 and five or six hours to drive there and back. Mysteries are much more interesting, because the mind can do what it does best — inventing spurious realities to explain what is not known. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote : Is Judy really dead? The last mail I sent her was in January and I got a reply. I think Rick or Alex should know her phone number. --- Sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote : Many people balked at the TM-SIdhis and the movement splintered to some extent at that point. Some people balked at the puja being required and ACEM grew out of that. They've even started publishing studies on ACEM meditation. As far Judy? I've corresponded with her occasionally via email over the years and she's always answered back until my last email which I sent out a couple of weeks ago. Her presence on the web has never been very large, and the last webpage I can find that mentions her is months and months (years?) out of date. But my emails haven't started bouncing back to me yet, so perhaps she's still around or perhaps the account is of the type that persists indefinitely, such as yahoo.com or gmail accounts. L --- Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote : Is Judy really dead? The last mail I sent her was in January and I got a reply. I think Rick or Alex should know her phone number. --- Sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote : Many people balked at the TM-SIdhis and the movement splintered to some extent at that point. Some people balked at the puja being required and ACEM grew out of that. They've even started publishing studies on ACEM meditation. As far Judy? I've corresponded with her occasionally via email over the years and she's always answered back until my last email which I sent out a couple of weeks ago. Her presence on the web has never been very large, and the last webpage I can find that mentions her is months and months (years?) out of date. But my emails haven't started bouncing back to me yet, so perhaps she's still around or perhaps the account is of the type that persists indefinitely, such as yahoo.com or gmail accounts. L --- Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us. Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Give me some time to respond MIchael. Look, I can't help it if Edg carries a lot of credibility with me. I mean, I like you too, but I relate to Edg's perspective. He'd didn't go full retard. You do not, I repeat do not, want to go full retard. You have gone full retard. Maybe that's the difference. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us.Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
I see no difference between me and Edg except he was a teacher and I wasn't. We both have the same basic attitude toward the Movement and liar Marshy, the Old Goat. I think you are fraid of offending him cuz he lives closer to you and you don't want to see someone on a Trikke zooming up behind you. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Give me some time to respond MIchael. Look, I can't help it if Edg carries a lot of credibility with me. I mean, I like you too, but I relate to Edg's perspective. He'd didn't go full retard. You do not, I repeat do not, want to go full retard. You have gone full retard. Maybe that's the difference. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us. Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 8:25 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Do you think anyone is going to take issue with your personal experiences, or your personal opinions? I guess he figured you would just revile him the way you do me, Barry and Curtis if he were here. The way I figure it is that some people have a big guilt trip and just want to share their guilt. Some people feel better when they have someone to talk to. But, nobody forced anyone to do anything that I'm aware of. Believing, or not, in human flying or levitation seems to be not so important in the the larger scheme of things. All they wanted to do was be spiritual teachers. The real issue is hypocrisy, as Judy used to say, and the blaming of others for their decisions. Go figure. *From:* steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 9:17 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Nice Share Edg. But what's with all the sue me stuff. Do you think anyone is going to take issue with your personal experiences, or your personal opinions? Plus, I always figured you for the I'm not the one who gets sued, I'M THE ONE WHO DOES THE SUING, type thing. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 9:29 AM, Duveyoung wrote: Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! So, where does the /coercion/ come in? Who, exactly, /forced/ you to do anything? Maybe it was simply your own weakness and your being inclined to accept and act on the suggestions of others. Why, exactly, were you willing to be so gullible? That's the real question. It's easy to lay blame on others, but difficult for the ego to admit your own mistakes and to sort out the reason you did what you did. All you had to do was walk away and never look back. Some people will never understand why it took you over thirty years to come to your senses. Yours would make a very good case study for a scientific psychological report on self-abuse. Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us.Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 10:30 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: As to the lawsuit scenario, MY GADAMM DREAM COME TRUE Brang it on! As to the last statement about the TMO - worse than anything I have ever said about the crum bums. Lets see if Buck, Nabby, Dr. Bronner's Protege and especially Steve have any squalling to say about it. I wonder if stevie can chalk it up to the idea of demons possessing the TMO big shots being just Edg's experience? And by the way THANKS Edg for a well written, erudite and completely spot on post. One of the best I have ever read on FFL. Addressing the important issues! ISIS cuts off the heads of hundreds, and kills thousands, and hundreds are dying from an ebola disease, but your and Edg's enemy is the TMO. If that's not screwed up I don't know what is! It's all a matter of priorities, I guess. *From:* Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 10:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us.Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 10:40 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Don't you remember jr claims by jyotish she is bad stove up from some sort of accident? Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. *From:* anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 11:28 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I had a few private e-mails with Judy a couple of years ago. That e-mail address is still live, but I have not tried to contact her. So whether she exists or not will not affect the address unless the account is shut down for non-payment with a local ISP. For example I have some ATT email addresses, but as they are in partnership with Yahoo; if I become incapacitated and do not pay my bills, I would lose only the POP and SMTP services that allow me to use an e-mail client with the accounts. Web mail, using a web browser would continue. So if an address is 'live' that really gives no information on whether there is a person behind it unless you know the details of the account, whether web mail is available, whether POP, SMTP, and also, IMAP is being used, and whether the address is associated with a free web mail provider like gmail.com or yahoo.com, or web mail is a paid service with the particular provider. I did a moderately extensive search for obituaries etc., news of hospital admissions, etc. a couple of months ago, but no results. Her last posts to FFL did not indicate anything unusual going on, seemed matter-of-fact, and then they just stopped. Based on what she has posted, she lives in an apartment about one block from the beach in New Jersey, so you can locate that apartment complex easily enough, probably find a phone number, or the complex's owner or caretaker, or just go there and knock on the door. I figure, minus meals, it would cost me about US$125 and five or six hours to drive there and back. Mysteries are much more interesting, because the mind can do what it does best — inventing spurious realities to explain what is not known. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote : Is Judy really dead? The last mail I sent her was in January and I got a reply. I think Rick or Alex should know her phone number. --- Sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote : Many people balked at the TM-SIdhis and the movement splintered to some extent at that point. Some people balked at the puja being required and ACEM grew out of that. They've even started publishing studies on ACEM meditation. As far Judy? I've corresponded with her occasionally via email over the years and she's always answered back until my last email which I sent out a couple of weeks ago. Her presence on the web has never been very large, and the last webpage I can find that mentions her is months and months (years?) out of date. But my emails haven't started bouncing back to me yet, so perhaps she's still around or perhaps the account is of the type that persists indefinitely, such as yahoo.com or gmail accounts. L --- Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote : Is Judy really dead? The last mail I sent her was in January and I got a reply. I think Rick or Alex should know her phone number. --- Sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote : Many people balked at the TM-SIdhis and the movement splintered to some extent at that point. Some people balked at the puja being required and ACEM grew out of that. They've even started publishing studies on ACEM meditation. As far Judy? I've corresponded with her occasionally via email over the years and she's always answered back until my last email which I sent out a couple of weeks ago. Her presence on the web has never been very large, and the last webpage I can find that mentions her is months and months (years?) out of date. But my emails haven't started bouncing back to me yet, so perhaps she's still around or perhaps the account is of the type that persists indefinitely, such as yahoo.com or gmail accounts. L --- Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
I may have more to say later, but.. To write like Edg, on the surface at least, you must incorporate such words as suchlike, and dontchaknow in nearly every posting. Also, you will never catch up to him, on the erotic writing end of things. We haven't seen that in a while, but really, I thought he excelled at it. But then again, he seemed to be writing from his own experience. But on a deeper level, and you know I like you Michael, but I just don't know if you're up to that caliber of writing... yet. That said, I think Edg's writing was a little more coherent last time round. I'm having a little harder time following it now. But also, methinks there is a bit of blind spot in your comparison. Edg is not caught in the quicksand of what he feels was the bamboozlement of his time in the TM. Either that, or he is able to express in a few brief posts what you attempt to do, or maybe repeat yourself, in fifty or sixty posts. Does that mean he is better by a factor of 50 to 1. No sir, it does not. But, his well seems to run deeper, somehow. He put time in, that you have not been able to do Michael, and I think it shows. And, he's moved forward, on a lot of different fronts, or so it seems. Know what I mean? Sincerely, Still a loyal fan of yours in St. Louie. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I see no difference between me and Edg except he was a teacher and I wasn't. We both have the same basic attitude toward the Movement and liar Marshy, the Old Goat. I think you are fraid of offending him cuz he lives closer to you and you don't want to see someone on a Trikke zooming up behind you. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Give me some time to respond MIchael. Look, I can't help it if Edg carries a lot of credibility with me. I mean, I like you too, but I relate to Edg's perspective. He'd didn't go full retard. You do not, I repeat do not, want to go full retard. You have gone full retard. Maybe that's the difference. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us.Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
you are so full of shit From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I may have more to say later, but.. To write like Edg, on the surface at least, you must incorporate such words as suchlike, and dontchaknow in nearly every posting. Also, you will never catch up to him, on the erotic writing end of things. We haven't seen that in a while, but really, I thought he excelled at it. But then again, he seemed to be writing from his own experience. But on a deeper level, and you know I like you Michael, but I just don't know if you're up to that caliber of writing... yet. That said, I think Edg's writing was a little more coherent last time round. I'm having a little harder time following it now. But also, methinks there is a bit of blind spot in your comparison. Edg is not caught in the quicksand of what he feels was the bamboozlement of his time in the TM. Either that, or he is able to express in a few brief posts what you attempt to do, or maybe repeat yourself, in fifty or sixty posts. Does that mean he is better by a factor of 50 to 1. No sir, it does not. But, his well seems to run deeper, somehow. He put time in, that you have not been able to do Michael, and I think it shows. And, he's moved forward, on a lot of different fronts, or so it seems. Know what I mean? Sincerely, Still a loyal fan of yours in St. Louie. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I see no difference between me and Edg except he was a teacher and I wasn't. We both have the same basic attitude toward the Movement and liar Marshy, the Old Goat. I think you are fraid of offending him cuz he lives closer to you and you don't want to see someone on a Trikke zooming up behind you. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Give me some time to respond MIchael. Look, I can't help it if Edg carries a lot of credibility with me. I mean, I like you too, but I relate to Edg's perspective. He'd didn't go full retard. You do not, I repeat do not, want to go full retard. You have gone full retard. Maybe that's the difference. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us. Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 10:43 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! You sound prejudiced against South Asians. Edg is just apparently ignorant of Sanskrit. The term /rakshasa/ in Vedic literature means nigger-devil. It's one thing to beignorant, but it's another thing to be a blatant racist. Go figure. Rakshasa: 1. Aryan term for South Asian native inhabitants. 2. Vedic term of derogation for dark skinned Indian aborigines. 3. a demon; an evil spirit that comes out of the forest at night to wander about; who often take the shape of husbands or lovers for the purposes of fornication. They are called 'confounders of the sacrifice' who at one time used to lay in wait at fords to kill those who tried to cross (Kaus. Br. XII.1). According to the Dictionary of Hinduism, the term raksasa is ...an epithet applied in the Rig Veda to Indian indigenes whose characteristics were likened to demons of popular folklore. Most of the native resistance to the Aryan infiltration was made from fortified positions, that offered by less organized tribes consisted of guerrilla tactics from forest hiding places, which Indra was constantly invoked to burn and destroy. (R.V. I.76,3, etc). Reference: Dictionary of Hinduism Its Mythology, Folklore, Philosophy, Literature, and History By M. and J. Stutley Harper Row, 1977 p. 245 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakshasa Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? *From:* steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us.Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Heh, let's not make this about me, but instead, note that my reports are resonant with the reports of so many others -- I might just be lying, but when tons of folks say the same stuff...it goes to figure. I try to not purposefully allow my mind to dwell in negativity, because my righteous grievance list is long and to indulge in bitching about the past would only hard-wire the memories even more and make it all the more likely that the brain will produce yet more negativity. Negativity is hard, exhausting work. At my age, I don't have enough time left to waste it that way. Others at FFL seem to think they have the time to do that. So be it. I did it to me; and they can do it to themselves. Can't throw the first stone at them. But I do reserve my right to go nutzoid as a writer and be way way way over the top here at FFL -- at no other place in my life do I discuss these spiritual misgivings, so I tend to let loose here, ya know? In real life -- almost no one even knows I was into TM; let alone allowed myself to be abused by the TMO. Also note that I'm NOT a master of my personal psychology, but I have finally learned that Edg roiling is an unpleasant process for me to witness, and I have found ways to avoid the danger not yet come. But, yep, I did my share of wallowing in a variety of hatreds. Life has not been smooth for me, and I've gotten myself into 'fixes' across the decades that had me stewing, gnawing and growling way too often. How many resentments did I process to nary a titch of closure? Why didn't TM take me to a better place or evolve my personality to handle life better? Answer; Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. My anger avoidance includes my thoughts about Maharishi. I have failed at so many things, I gotta give him the right to have done so also. If I had been Guru Dev's disciple, would I have come anywhere near to Maharishi's level of clarity...as if, eh? See? Yogananda did what he could, Maharishi pushed it a bit farther down the road. Each one flawed in their own ways. All of Rick's interviewees too. And the good news is: life is short. If there is an afterlife, if awareness is, indeed, eternal, than maybe there'll be a nervous system for me down the line that can make it to freedom. And if not, then life's shortness helps us appreciate the good stuff all the more. And the bad news is: it's Kali Yuga baby!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. Nailed it again. From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Heh, let's not make this about me, but instead, note that my reports are resonant with the reports of so many others -- I might just be lying, but when tons of folks say the same stuff...it goes to figure. I try to not purposefully allow my mind to dwell in negativity, because my righteous grievance list is long and to indulge in bitching about the past would only hard-wire the memories even more and make it all the more likely that the brain will produce yet more negativity. Negativity is hard, exhausting work. At my age, I don't have enough time left to waste it that way. Others at FFL seem to think they have the time to do that. So be it. I did it to me; and they can do it to themselves. Can't throw the first stone at them. But I do reserve my right to go nutzoid as a writer and be way way way over the top here at FFL -- at no other place in my life do I discuss these spiritual misgivings, so I tend to let loose here, ya know? In real life -- almost no one even knows I was into TM; let alone allowed myself to be abused by the TMO. Also note that I'm NOT a master of my personal psychology, but I have finally learned that Edg roiling is an unpleasant process for me to witness, and I have found ways to avoid the danger not yet come. But, yep, I did my share of wallowing in a variety of hatreds. Life has not been smooth for me, and I've gotten myself into 'fixes' across the decades that had me stewing, gnawing and growling way too often. How many resentments did I process to nary a titch of closure? Why didn't TM take me to a better place or evolve my personality to handle life better? Answer; Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. My anger avoidance includes my thoughts about Maharishi. I have failed at so many things, I gotta give him the right to have done so also. If I had been Guru Dev's disciple, would I have come anywhere near to Maharishi's level of clarity...as if, eh? See? Yogananda did what he could, Maharishi pushed it a bit farther down the road. Each one flawed in their own ways. All of Rick's interviewees too. And the good news is: life is short. If there is an afterlife, if awareness is, indeed, eternal, than maybe there'll be a nervous system for me down the line that can make it to freedom. And if not, then life's shortness helps us appreciate the good stuff all the more. And the bad news is: it's Kali Yuga baby!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
This is a keeper. It's got something for everyone, and a lot for some I think. Good stuff Edg. Makes FFL worthwhile! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Heh, let's not make this about me, but instead, note that my reports are resonant with the reports of so many others -- I might just be lying, but when tons of folks say the same stuff...it goes to figure. I try to not purposefully allow my mind to dwell in negativity, because my righteous grievance list is long and to indulge in bitching about the past would only hard-wire the memories even more and make it all the more likely that the brain will produce yet more negativity. Negativity is hard, exhausting work. At my age, I don't have enough time left to waste it that way. Others at FFL seem to think they have the time to do that. So be it. I did it to me; and they can do it to themselves. Can't throw the first stone at them. But I do reserve my right to go nutzoid as a writer and be way way way over the top here at FFL -- at no other place in my life do I discuss these spiritual misgivings, so I tend to let loose here, ya know? In real life -- almost no one even knows I was into TM; let alone allowed myself to be abused by the TMO. Also note that I'm NOT a master of my personal psychology, but I have finally learned that Edg roiling is an unpleasant process for me to witness, and I have found ways to avoid the danger not yet come. But, yep, I did my share of wallowing in a variety of hatreds. Life has not been smooth for me, and I've gotten myself into 'fixes' across the decades that had me stewing, gnawing and growling way too often. How many resentments did I process to nary a titch of closure? Why didn't TM take me to a better place or evolve my personality to handle life better? Answer; Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. My anger avoidance includes my thoughts about Maharishi. I have failed at so many things, I gotta give him the right to have done so also. If I had been Guru Dev's disciple, would I have come anywhere near to Maharishi's level of clarity...as if, eh? See? Yogananda did what he could, Maharishi pushed it a bit farther down the road. Each one flawed in their own ways. All of Rick's interviewees too. And the good news is: life is short. If there is an afterlife, if awareness is, indeed, eternal, than maybe there'll be a nervous system for me down the line that can make it to freedom. And if not, then life's shortness helps us appreciate the good stuff all the more. And the bad news is: it's Kali Yuga baby!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Right Michael, Too bad you will miss the rest of the message. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. Nailed it again. From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Heh, let's not make this about me, but instead, note that my reports are resonant with the reports of so many others -- I might just be lying, but when tons of folks say the same stuff...it goes to figure. I try to not purposefully allow my mind to dwell in negativity, because my righteous grievance list is long and to indulge in bitching about the past would only hard-wire the memories even more and make it all the more likely that the brain will produce yet more negativity. Negativity is hard, exhausting work. At my age, I don't have enough time left to waste it that way. Others at FFL seem to think they have the time to do that. So be it. I did it to me; and they can do it to themselves. Can't throw the first stone at them. But I do reserve my right to go nutzoid as a writer and be way way way over the top here at FFL -- at no other place in my life do I discuss these spiritual misgivings, so I tend to let loose here, ya know? In real life -- almost no one even knows I was into TM; let alone allowed myself to be abused by the TMO. Also note that I'm NOT a master of my personal psychology, but I have finally learned that Edg roiling is an unpleasant process for me to witness, and I have found ways to avoid the danger not yet come. But, yep, I did my share of wallowing in a variety of hatreds. Life has not been smooth for me, and I've gotten myself into 'fixes' across the decades that had me stewing, gnawing and growling way too often. How many resentments did I process to nary a titch of closure? Why didn't TM take me to a better place or evolve my personality to handle life better? Answer; Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. My anger avoidance includes my thoughts about Maharishi. I have failed at so many things, I gotta give him the right to have done so also. If I had been Guru Dev's disciple, would I have come anywhere near to Maharishi's level of clarity...as if, eh? See? Yogananda did what he could, Maharishi pushed it a bit farther down the road. Each one flawed in their own ways. All of Rick's interviewees too. And the good news is: life is short. If there is an afterlife, if awareness is, indeed, eternal, than maybe there'll be a nervous system for me down the line that can make it to freedom. And if not, then life's shortness helps us appreciate the good stuff all the more. And the bad news is: it's Kali Yuga baby!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
'Transcending', in my observation really does not seem to have much effect on personality, although an ideology associated with these kinds of experiences might sometimes result in bizarre behavioural changes. 'Transcending' bypasses the mind's current state, results in another state, a different facet of experience. But each of these states are conscious, so whatever you may be, you are there to experience both of those states, and experience a greater range of what you might be. You do not go anywhere, nor do you become something else, so why would you change? For me, and some others I know, the first five years of meditation produced the greatest sense of change. After that, not much. Some seem very dense. M seemed to have a habit of over exaggerating to goad people on, and underestimating the dimness of people's grasp of spiritual progress, but just maybe, he caught on and used that dimness for purposes other than the intended goal of the process. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Right Michael, Too bad you will miss the rest of the message. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. Nailed it again. From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Heh, let's not make this about me, but instead, note that my reports are resonant with the reports of so many others -- I might just be lying, but when tons of folks say the same stuff...it goes to figure. I try to not purposefully allow my mind to dwell in negativity, because my righteous grievance list is long and to indulge in bitching about the past would only hard-wire the memories even more and make it all the more likely that the brain will produce yet more negativity. Negativity is hard, exhausting work. At my age, I don't have enough time left to waste it that way. Others at FFL seem to think they have the time to do that. So be it. I did it to me; and they can do it to themselves. Can't throw the first stone at them. But I do reserve my right to go nutzoid as a writer and be way way way over the top here at FFL -- at no other place in my life do I discuss these spiritual misgivings, so I tend to let loose here, ya know? In real life -- almost no one even knows I was into TM; let alone allowed myself to be abused by the TMO. Also note that I'm NOT a master of my personal psychology, but I have finally learned that Edg roiling is an unpleasant process for me to witness, and I have found ways to avoid the danger not yet come. But, yep, I did my share of wallowing in a variety of hatreds. Life has not been smooth for me, and I've gotten myself into 'fixes' across the decades that had me stewing, gnawing and growling way too often. How many resentments did I process to nary a titch of closure? Why didn't TM take me to a better place or evolve my personality to handle life better? Answer; Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. My anger avoidance includes my thoughts about Maharishi. I have failed at so many things, I gotta give him the right to have done so also. If I had been Guru Dev's disciple, would I have come anywhere near to Maharishi's level of clarity...as if, eh? See? Yogananda did what he could, Maharishi pushed it a bit farther down the road. Each one flawed in their own ways. All of Rick's interviewees too. And the good news is: life is short. If there is an afterlife, if awareness is, indeed, eternal, than maybe there'll be a nervous system for me down the line that can make it to freedom. And if not, then life's shortness helps us appreciate the good stuff all the more. And the bad news is: it's Kali Yuga baby!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 1:24 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I may have more to say later, but.. To write like Edg, on the surface at least, you must incorporate such words as suchlike, and dontchaknow in nearly every posting. Also, you will never catch up to him, on the erotic writing end of things. We haven't seen that in a while, but really, I thought he excelled at it. But then again, he seemed to be writing from his own experience. But on a deeper level, and you know I like you Michael, but I just don't know if you're up to that caliber of writing... yet. That said, I think Edg's writing was a little more coherent last time round. I'm having a little harder time following it now. But also, methinks there is a bit of blind spot in your comparison. Edg is not caught in the quicksand of what he feels was the bamboozlement of his time in the TM. Either that, or he is able to express in a few brief posts what you attempt to do, or maybe repeat yourself, in fifty or sixty posts. Does that mean he is better by a factor of 50 to 1. No sir, it does not. But, his well seems to run deeper, somehow. He put time in, that you have not been able to do Michael, and I think it shows. How difficult can it be to bake some cupcakes and a loaf or two of bread? If that is a problem, maybe he should have taken a simple course in basket weaving. The problem is not in the baking - the problem is in the social idealism and holding everyone up to a higher standard than one's own. Another word for it is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is the claim or pretense of holding beliefs, feelings, standards, qualities, opinions, behaviors, virtues, motivations, or other characteristics that one does not in actual fact hold. It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy And, he's moved forward, on a lot of different fronts, or so it seems. Know what I mean? Sincerely, Still a loyal fan of yours in St. Louie. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I see no difference between me and Edg except he was a teacher and I wasn't. We both have the same basic attitude toward the Movement and liar Marshy, the Old Goat. I think you are fraid of offending him cuz he lives closer to you and you don't want to see someone on a Trikke zooming up behind you. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 12:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Give me some time to respond MIchael. Look, I can't help it if Edg carries a lot of credibility with me. I mean, I like you too, but I relate to Edg's perspective. He'd didn't go full retard. You do not, I repeat do not, want to go full retard. You have gone full retard. Maybe that's the difference. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Going through posts again a little more slowly. I think Edg put out some good things today, maybe not so much with this post, but I think most of it is likely to get filtered out by you. You will latch on to what you usually latch on to. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth of such a victory to almost all of us.Not that seeing the TM technique besmirched in the public eye would be good, but that at least the present set of hoodlums would be outed for the scammers they are, and no longer would a decent enough meditation technique be represented by such immoral, fuck it I'll say it, DEMONIC ENTITIES. Not that I believe in demons all that much, but if there are such, some of them are possessing the TMO right now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
And you never fail to disappoint. I'd wish I could say you were just a goof ball, but I think, really, you are a total fool. But you seem to enjoy it, so carry on. Like a body in motion, tending to stay in motion, your forward momentum of bitterness towards the TMO shows no sign of abating. I wonder where that ends up ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : you are so full of shit From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I may have more to say later, but.. To write like Edg, on the surface at least, you must incorporate such words as suchlike, and dontchaknow in nearly every posting. Also, you will never catch up to him, on the erotic writing end of things. We haven't seen that in a while, but really, I thought he excelled at it. But then again, he seemed to be writing from his own experience. But on a deeper level, and you know I like you Michael, but I just don't know if you're up to that caliber of writing... yet. That said, I think Edg's writing was a little more coherent last time round. I'm having a little harder time following it now. But also, methinks there is a bit of blind spot in your comparison. Edg is not caught in the quicksand of what he feels was the bamboozlement of his time in the TM. Either that, or he is able to express in a few brief posts what you attempt to do, or maybe repeat yourself, in fifty or sixty posts. Does that mean he is better by a factor of 50 to 1. No sir, it does not. But, his well seems to run deeper, somehow. He put time in, that you have not been able to do Michael, and I think it shows. And, he's moved forward, on a lot of different fronts, or so it seems. Know what I mean? Sincerely, Still a loyal fan of yours in St. Louie. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I see no difference between me and Edg except he was a teacher and I wasn't. We both have the same basic attitude toward the Movement and liar Marshy, the Old Goat. I think you are fraid of offending him cuz he lives closer to you and you don't want to see someone on a Trikke zooming up behind you. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Give me some time to respond MIchael. Look, I can't help it if Edg carries a lot of credibility with me. I mean, I like you too, but I relate to Edg's perspective. He'd didn't go full retard. You do not, I repeat do not, want to go full retard. You have gone full retard. Maybe that's the difference. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 1:34 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: you are so full of shit Ad hominem is the second to last resort of someone who is losing a debate and is unable to respond with legitimacy. The last resort (most difficult for the ego) is to consider that he might be wrong. *From:* steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 2:24 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I may have more to say later, but.. To write like Edg, on the surface at least, you must incorporate such words as suchlike, and dontchaknow in nearly every posting. Also, you will never catch up to him, on the erotic writing end of things. We haven't seen that in a while, but really, I thought he excelled at it. But then again, he seemed to be writing from his own experience. But on a deeper level, and you know I like you Michael, but I just don't know if you're up to that caliber of writing... yet. That said, I think Edg's writing was a little more coherent last time round. I'm having a little harder time following it now. But also, methinks there is a bit of blind spot in your comparison. Edg is not caught in the quicksand of what he feels was the bamboozlement of his time in the TM. Either that, or he is able to express in a few brief posts what you attempt to do, or maybe repeat yourself, in fifty or sixty posts. Does that mean he is better by a factor of 50 to 1. No sir, it does not. But, his well seems to run deeper, somehow. He put time in, that you have not been able to do Michael, and I think it shows. And, he's moved forward, on a lot of different fronts, or so it seems. Know what I mean? Sincerely, Still a loyal fan of yours in St. Louie. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I see no difference between me and Edg except he was a teacher and I wasn't. We both have the same basic attitude toward the Movement and liar Marshy, the Old Goat. I think you are fraid of offending him cuz he lives closer to you and you don't want to see someone on a Trikke zooming up behind you. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 12:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Give me some time to respond MIchael. Look, I can't help it if Edg carries a lot of credibility with me. I mean, I like you too, but I relate to Edg's perspective. He'd didn't go full retard. You do not, I repeat do not, want to go full retard. You have gone full retard. Maybe that's the difference. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 1:34 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: you are so full of shit Ad hominem is the second to last resort of someone who is losing a debate and is unable to respond with legitimacy. The last resort (most difficult for the ego) is to consider that he might be wrong. *From:* steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 2:24 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I may have more to say later, but.. To write like Edg, on the surface at least, you must incorporate such words as suchlike, and dontchaknow in nearly every posting. Also, you will never catch up to him, on the erotic writing end of things. We haven't seen that in a while, but really, I thought he excelled at it. But then again, he seemed to be writing from his own experience. But on a deeper level, and you know I like you Michael, but I just don't know if you're up to that caliber of writing... yet. That said, I think Edg's writing was a little more coherent last time round. I'm having a little harder time following it now. But also, methinks there is a bit of blind spot in your comparison. Edg is not caught in the quicksand of what he feels was the bamboozlement of his time in the TM. Either that, or he is able to express in a few brief posts what you attempt to do, or maybe repeat yourself, in fifty or sixty posts. Does that mean he is better by a factor of 50 to 1. No sir, it does not. But, his well seems to run deeper, somehow. He put time in, that you have not been able to do Michael, and I think it shows. And, he's moved forward, on a lot of different fronts, or so it seems. Know what I mean? Sincerely, Still a loyal fan of yours in St. Louie. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I see no difference between me and Edg except he was a teacher and I wasn't. We both have the same basic attitude toward the Movement and liar Marshy, the Old Goat. I think you are fraid of offending him cuz he lives closer to you and you don't want to see someone on a Trikke zooming up behind you. *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 12:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Give me some time to respond MIchael. Look, I can't help it if Edg carries a lot of credibility with me. I mean, I like you too, but I relate to Edg's perspective. He'd didn't go full retard. You do not, I repeat do not, want to go full retard. You have gone full retard. Maybe that's the difference. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Cmon Stevie! Man up! Duv is claiming the TMO is being run by rakshasas! Plus he mentioned suicides, that's one that most of you TM junkies squall the loudest about. If I said that you'd be all over it - whus wrong? Some reverence for Edg cuz he was a TM TEACHER??? Think the Divine Marshy Vibe still exists there? *From:* steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 10:47 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were You might want to Fedex some boxes of kleenex to Michael. I think he's going to need them. Otherwise it's going to be one hell of a sticky mess. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Sue me stuff is just me being puffed up and putting a chip on my shoulder for writerly effects donchaknow.But, hey, if I can get the TMO to sue me, whoa boy, what funzies that would be. Can you imagine the folks who would come out of the woodwork with their testimonies? It would be heaven sorting through all the shit! Think: the MIU murder, the suicides, the badges pulled, the money laundered/smuggled, the personal expenses of the uppity-ups, the lawsuits, the women complainers, the hush-up money paid, the bribes, those rejected for training, those whose whole lives came to naught and cost them EVERYTHING, etc. But face it, folks, unless there's millions of bucks worth of lawyers smashing at their doors, Girish and Co. have ZERO worries about anything anyone might say about them. They know how to lie and HOW TO MAKE FAMOUS PEOPLE LIE FOR THEM. Maybe a class action suit would chisel the smirks off the TMO Ozymandias statues and help quicken their eventual karma of being two trunkless legs of stone in a lost desert. If we won the suit, heh, I wonder how much we get back -- probably a penny on the dollar, but oh, the psychological worth
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 2:48 PM, Duveyoung wrote: Life has not been smooth for me, and I've gotten myself into 'fixes' across the decades that had me stewing, gnawing and growling way too often. You seem to have had the exact opposite outcome claimed by Barry. According to what he just posted, he thrived on the experiences while you suffered untold abuse. Or, maybe you're just being honest and Barry is just exhibiting narcissistic tendencies. Where is Judy when we need her? Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder in which a person is excessively preoccupied with personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity, mentally unable to see the destructive damage they are causing to themselves and to others in the process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Xeno, just today I got an audio from a spiritual teacher, David Deida. He was explaining how the first time someone takes his workshop, they might begin one small practice, such as deeper breathing, yet experience a huge change in their lives. But after some time, not even bigger practices produce a noticeable change in their lives. Maybe it's simply the human way of adapting to whatever behavior we adopt. No matter what healing practice I adopt, after some time, the benefits from it are less noticeable. Or at least less dramatic than at the beginning. I think it's a good sign. On Monday, August 25, 2014 4:51 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: 'Transcending', in my observation really does not seem to have much effect on personality, although an ideology associated with these kinds of experiences might sometimes result in bizarre behavioural changes. 'Transcending' bypasses the mind's current state, results in another state, a different facet of experience. But each of these states are conscious, so whatever you may be, you are there to experience both of those states, and experience a greater range of what you might be. You do not go anywhere, nor do you become something else, so why would you change? For me, and some others I know, the first five years of meditation produced the greatest sense of change. After that, not much. Some seem very dense. M seemed to have a habit of over exaggerating to goad people on, and underestimating the dimness of people's grasp of spiritual progress, but just maybe, he caught on and used that dimness for purposes other than the intended goal of the process. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Right Michael, Too bad you will miss the rest of the message. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. Nailed it again. From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Heh, let's not make this about me, but instead, note that my reports are resonant with the reports of so many others -- I might just be lying, but when tons of folks say the same stuff...it goes to figure. I try to not purposefully allow my mind to dwell in negativity, because my righteous grievance list is long and to indulge in bitching about the past would only hard-wire the memories even more and make it all the more likely that the brain will produce yet more negativity. Negativity is hard, exhausting work. At my age, I don't have enough time left to waste it that way. Others at FFL seem to think they have the time to do that. So be it. I did it to me; and they can do it to themselves. Can't throw the first stone at them. But I do reserve my right to go nutzoid as a writer and be way way way over the top here at FFL -- at no other place in my life do I discuss these spiritual misgivings, so I tend to let loose here, ya know? In real life -- almost no one even knows I was into TM; let alone allowed myself to be abused by the TMO. Also note that I'm NOT a master of my personal psychology, but I have finally learned that Edg roiling is an unpleasant process for me to witness, and I have found ways to avoid the danger not yet come. But, yep, I did my share of wallowing in a variety of hatreds. Life has not been smooth for me, and I've gotten myself into 'fixes' across the decades that had me stewing, gnawing and growling way too often. How many resentments did I process to nary a titch of closure? Why didn't TM take me to a better place or evolve my personality to handle life better? Answer; Transcending has zero effect on personality except that maybe sorta kinda perhaps it does only maybe kinda but we don't have measuring devices to affirm such. But one thing's clear: any changes to anything come at a deathly slow pace -- so slow that most folks can expect to, ahem, die before major evolutionary signs are easily affirmed. And that IS NOT what Maharishi sold us. He sold us 5 -8 years -- no exceptions for the most part. My anger avoidance includes my thoughts about Maharishi. I have failed at so many things, I gotta give him the right to have done so also. If I had been Guru Dev's disciple, would I have come anywhere near to Maharishi's level of clarity...as if, eh? See? Yogananda did what he could, Maharishi pushed it a bit
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: ReI have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. In /Tibetan Dream Yoga/, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as /'Rigpa Awareness'./ Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of '/Diamond Light'/. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 8/25/2014 8:59 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Re I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires: And yet, . . ., and yet . . . Isn't it the case that *when you are meditating* you often enter a state in which your quotidian desires no longer impinge on your consciousness and you are happy to remain just where you are. True, one could say the same thing about being asleep, but Indian philosophers have often taken the deep sleep state as a paradigm for enlightenment. No desires = fulfillment of desires. Very good point. I think of ignorance as being chock a block full of desiring. Those who feel nothing but the relative are voracious in their appetite for all things material including power and fame if they can get it. Fulfillment of all desires could be just that - lack of desire. In Tibetan Dream Yoga, maintaining full consciousness while in the dream state is part of Dzogchen training. This training is described by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as 'Rigpa Awareness'. Lucid dreaming is secondary to the experience of 'Diamond Light'. Rigpa Awareness is very similar to 'witnessing sleep' in TM, which helps the individual understand the unreality of waking consciousness as phenomena. Apparently the EEG patterns are the same in Rigpa Awareness as in TM. Read more: 'Tibetan Yoga Of Dream And Sleep' by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Snow Lion, 1998
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were [1 Attachment]
All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Hard to believe you have a medical license given your poor spelling and writing skills - the word is not allusive it is elusive, which means difficult to find, catch, or achieve - allusive means working by suggestion rather than explicit mention I forgot though, you got that medical certificate of completion in Old May-hee-co. OK then in Spanish the word is elusivo. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Every single TMer has one burning desire which, until now remains allusive..to be rid of The Dreaded... michael ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Please refer to me as Dr Marco, if you expect the dignity of my reply.---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Hard to believe you have a medical license given your poor spelling and writing skills - the word is not allusive it is elusive, which means difficult to find, catch, or achieve - allusive means working by suggestion rather than explicit mention I forgot though, you got that medical certificate of completion in Old May-hee-co. OK then in Spanish the word is elusivo. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Every single TMer has one burning desire which, until now remains allusive..to be rid of The Dreaded... michael ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were [1 Attachment]
You are telling me you never saw the second poster? Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA - call the LA center and ask them about it. Are you trying to imply that someone created these things to discredit the Movement? There are way too many people here on FFL who remember these for you to get by with that. If you want the source as to who has put it up on the internet, surely you have sense enough to realize it isn't anyone currently in good standing with the TMO - you think the Movement wants people to remember this shit? Do what I did and do an image search for transcendental meditation supernormal powers or transcendental meditation supernormal abilities - you will get slightly different results doing both. Now that I have wasted time teaching you how to do an image search, here is one more that will perhaps be to your liking since it has no mention of money for the lecture. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Steve, let me help you out with this: Mike makes shit up Mike steals things for his made-up shit Mike himself is made-up, as he has no genuine personality or core being Mike flails around to cover his made-up, stolen, empty shit And these are Mike's best qualities. As an Anti-TM Cultist he feeds off of TM. He is a drag, drain, and dick. Again, I am trying to see the best in Mike. Perhaps you are more critical, but I always hope for room for improvement. But accept if it is a lost cause, like this one. Cheers! P.S. Does spelling count? Dr D ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
I never saw them, but evidently they had a life expectancy of about a week, (or maybe less). So, your point is, I guess, that the movement screwed up by producing some literature that really made no sense, and then evidently pulled it. I think everyone gets the point, Michael, except you, that the movement does, and has screwed up. We know that because each and every instance of that is ferreted out by you and trumpeted here. And the movement continues on, as does your campaign to discredit it. And so, really, what else is new. Tomorrow, you will produce some new discovery, and the day after that, as well. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are telling me you never saw the second poster? Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA - call the LA center and ask them about it. Are you trying to imply that someone created these things to discredit the Movement? There are way too many people here on FFL who remember these for you to get by with that. If you want the source as to who has put it up on the internet, surely you have sense enough to realize it isn't anyone currently in good standing with the TMO - you think the Movement wants people to remember this shit? Do what I did and do an image search for transcendental meditation supernormal powers or transcendental meditation supernormal abilities - you will get slightly different results doing both. Now that I have wasted time teaching you how to do an image search, here is one more that will perhaps be to your liking since it has no mention of money for the lecture. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Nobody cares what a Fifth Pathway can't cut it in real medical school thinks From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Steve, let me help you out with this: 1. Mike makes shit up 2. Mike steals things for his made-up shit 3. Mike himself is made-up, as he has no genuine personality or core being 4. Mike flails around to cover his made-up, stolen, empty shit And these are Mike's best qualities. As an Anti-TM Cultist he feeds off of TM. He is a drag, drain, and dick. Again, I am trying to see the best in Mike. Perhaps you are more critical, but I always hope for room for improvement. But accept if it is a lost cause, like this one. Cheers! P.S. Does spelling count? Dr D ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
As usual you are wrong. The Movement didn't screw up. It did exactly what it intended to do - it advertised its lies and its bullshit programs in such a blatant over the top fashion that a lot of gullible people said Well, Marshy is enlightened so it must be true and he is so focused on science he couldn't say this if it wasn't true. So the lying ass got he wanted - a core of really hard core believers who would form the continuing core of payers - those who funded him and his greedy lazy family. And today it really isn't the hardcore Bevans and Neal Pattersons who enable the Movement and allow it to continue to royally support these lazy bastards who live by scams and con artistry and suck people into what has indeed become a cult. It is the people like you who will tell people I know the Movement has done some things it shouldn't have done, but TM is solid, I got a lot out of it and blah blah blah. You are still living with your head in the sand ignoring behavior you would never tolerate in any friends or business associates and hate in the governments and organizations who act the same way the Movement does. Keep your head down, but don't expect the rest of the world to go along with it. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I never saw them, but evidently they had a life expectancy of about a week, (or maybe less). So, your point is, I guess, that the movement screwed up by producing some literature that really made no sense, and then evidently pulled it. I think everyone gets the point, Michael, except you, that the movement does, and has screwed up. We know that because each and every instance of that is ferreted out by you and trumpeted here. And the movement continues on, as does your campaign to discredit it. And so, really, what else is new. Tomorrow, you will produce some new discovery, and the day after that, as well. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are telling me you never saw the second poster? Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA - call the LA center and ask them about it. Are you trying to imply that someone created these things to discredit the Movement? There are way too many people here on FFL who remember these for you to get by with that. If you want the source as to who has put it up on the internet, surely you have sense enough to realize it isn't anyone currently in good standing with the TMO - you think the Movement wants people to remember this shit? Do what I did and do an image search for transcendental meditation supernormal powers or transcendental meditation supernormal abilities - you will get slightly different results doing both. Now that I have wasted time teaching you how to do an image search, here is one more that will perhaps be to your liking since it has no mention of money for the lecture. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : As usual you are wrong. The Movement didn't screw up. It did exactly what it intended to do - it advertised its lies and its bullshit programs in such a blatant over the top fashion that a lot of gullible people said Well, Marshy is enlightened so it must be true and he is so focused on science he couldn't say this if it wasn't true. Yes, Michael, I knew this was coming. This is your fantasy, this infallibility. All you are saying is that you bit down hard on every claim made, without exercising some common sense discrimination. We will solve the age old problems of mankind in this generation I don't know too many that took that claim, hook, line and sinker, but it is statements like this, the reality of which didn't materialize on which you base you case. So the lying ass got he wanted - a core of really hard core believers who would form the continuing core of payers - those who funded him and his greedy lazy family. And today it really isn't the hardcore Bevans and Neal Pattersons who enable the Movement and allow it to continue to royally support these lazy bastards who live by scams and con artistry and suck people into what has indeed become a cult. It is the people like you who will tell people I know the Movement has done some things it shouldn't have done, but TM is solid, I got a lot out of it and blah blah blah. It is too bad, that the world doesn't come around to your way of thinking. It appears to cause you endless anger and frustration. What is really amusing though, (and I chuckle even now, thinking about it), is when you play the ultimate channel card and tell people their true reasons for doing things. I don't know where you get this off world information. You've been pretty coy about revealing your channel handle. Breaker, breaker, you've got MJ here calling upon_, the disembodied entity here to help me tell you folks why you do, and don't do certain things Jeez, talk about something that didn't pan out! You are still living with your head in the sand ignoring behavior you would never tolerate in any friends or business associates and hate in the governments and organizations who act the same way the Movement does. Keep your head down, but don't expect the rest of the world to go along with it. Michael, in case you didn't notice, I'm not the one putting forth some agenda. That's your deal, and judging from the rising pitch of your angst, it doesn't appear to bepanning out too well for you. On the other hand, every day you always reach a crescendo of anger. Usually you hit it a little earlier in the day. No worries. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I never saw them, but evidently they had a life expectancy of about a week, (or maybe less). So, your point is, I guess, that the movement screwed up by producing some literature that really made no sense, and then evidently pulled it. I think everyone gets the point, Michael, except you, that the movement does, and has screwed up. We know that because each and every instance of that is ferreted out by you and trumpeted here. And the movement continues on, as does your campaign to discredit it. And so, really, what else is new. Tomorrow, you will produce some new discovery, and the day after that, as well. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are telling me you never saw the second poster? Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA - call the LA center and ask them about it. Are you trying to imply that someone created these things to discredit the Movement? There are way too many people here on FFL who remember these for you to get by with that. If you want the source as to who has put it up on the internet, surely you have sense enough to realize it isn't anyone currently in good standing with the TMO - you think the Movement wants people to remember this shit? Do what I did and do an image search for transcendental meditation supernormal powers or transcendental meditation supernormal abilities - you will get slightly different results doing both. Now that I have wasted time teaching you how to do an image search, here is one more that will perhaps be to your liking since it has no mention of money for the lecture. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
And how did you respond when you first heard of the TM Siddhi program oh mr. common sense I am so balanced bullshitter? From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : As usual you are wrong. The Movement didn't screw up. It did exactly what it intended to do - it advertised its lies and its bullshit programs in such a blatant over the top fashion that a lot of gullible people said Well, Marshy is enlightened so it must be true and he is so focused on science he couldn't say this if it wasn't true. Yes, Michael, I knew this was coming. This is your fantasy, this infallibility. All you are saying is that you bit down hard on every claim made, without exercising some common sense discrimination. We will solve the age old problems of mankind in this generation I don't know too many that took that claim, hook, line and sinker, but it is statements like this, the reality of which didn't materialize on which you base you case. So the lying ass got he wanted - a core of really hard core believers who would form the continuing core of payers - those who funded him and his greedy lazy family. And today it really isn't the hardcore Bevans and Neal Pattersons who enable the Movement and allow it to continue to royally support these lazy bastards who live by scams and con artistry and suck people into what has indeed become a cult. It is the people like you who will tell people I know the Movement has done some things it shouldn't have done, but TM is solid, I got a lot out of it and blah blah blah. It is too bad, that the world doesn't come around to your way of thinking. It appears to cause you endless anger and frustration. What is really amusing though, (and I chuckle even now, thinking about it), is when you play the ultimate channel card and tell people their true reasons for doing things. I don't know where you get this off world information. You've been pretty coy about revealing your channel handle. Breaker, breaker, you've got MJ here calling upon_, the disembodied entity here to help me tell you folks why you do, and don't do certain things Jeez, talk about something that didn't pan out! You are still living with your head in the sand ignoring behavior you would never tolerate in any friends or business associates and hate in the governments and organizations who act the same way the Movement does. Keep your head down, but don't expect the rest of the world to go along with it. Michael, in case you didn't notice, I'm not the one putting forth some agenda. That's your deal, and judging from the rising pitch of your angst, it doesn't appear to bepanning out too well for you. On the other hand, every day you always reach a crescendo of anger. Usually you hit it a little earlier in the day. No worries. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I never saw them, but evidently they had a life expectancy of about a week, (or maybe less). So, your point is, I guess, that the movement screwed up by producing some literature that really made no sense, and then evidently pulled it. I think everyone gets the point, Michael, except you, that the movement does, and has screwed up. We know that because each and every instance of that is ferreted out by you and trumpeted here. And the movement continues on, as does your campaign to discredit it. And so, really, what else is new. Tomorrow, you will produce some new discovery, and the day after that, as well. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are telling me you never saw the second poster? Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA - call the LA center and ask them about it. Are you trying to imply that someone created these things to discredit the Movement? There are way too many people here on FFL who remember these for you to get by with that. If you want the source as to who has put it up on the internet, surely you have sense enough to realize it isn't anyone currently in good standing with the TMO - you think the Movement wants people to remember this shit? Do what I did and do an image search for transcendental meditation supernormal powers or transcendental meditation supernormal abilities - you will get slightly
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : ... a lot of gullible people said Well, Marshy is enlightened so it must be true and he is so focused on science he couldn't say this if it wasn't true. This seems to have been the running paradigm about serving in the movement, reinforced by M saying things like 'The pure level of consciousness becomes stabilized in our awareness, and when that pure level – the state of least excitation – is a living reality even during daily activity, this is the state of enlightenment. This is life free from suffering, life when every thought and action is spontaneously correct'. It was implied that he, M, was living this state, though I do not believe he ever said he was, his followers filled in the implication. This is actually true, that action is in accord with the laws of the universe, but just how it is true is misconstrued in the state of 'ignorance'. Every thought and action is always exactly as it is, absolute, and in accord with the assumed laws of the universe, whatever they may be, so everyone's actions are actually in accord with life and spontaneous and correct; it is only in the mind that this can be construed to not be so. Thus even the most horrible things that can happen are spontaneously 'correct' for they can be no other way. Think of ISIS. This does not mean we will sit by in phoney bliss pretence and allow things like ISIS does go by without consequences. Even M said at one point when asked how deep bad thoughts go, he said they are 'rotten to the core'. However the followers of M deluded themselves into thinking what they did was in the service of M instead of life as a whole, which would have worked out better if M had not fallen off the behavioural wagon and misused his gifts and position for less than auspicious ends. You surrender your fictional, individual self to the larger world of life, which presumably a guru represents, but you have to watch the guru, you have to have some discrimination to tell if the guru is really in alignment with the principles they espouse, because at this point you will not see how spontaneous action and thought function in the world; if you can do this well, a guru can help you progress in spite of their being corruptible, and if you cannot, you will be in a sorry state indeed. Every realised being still has a flawed human mind; there is always the chance some event will knock them off track, even though that fall is perfectly in accord with the way the universe functions. This is why you find such behavioural prohibitions and channels in religions, to compensate for this perfect flawed potential, not that it ever works very well or at all in some cases. As we see, religions have a horrible morality record. This is because corruption and incorruption emerge, balanced, from the same source, and imbalance in the mind. If you like goodness, you cannot have it without an equal dose of evil; they will fluctuate back and forth. Sam Harris' book Waking Up, A Guide to Spirituality without Religion will be out next month. This should be interesting. Harris published the first chapter on his website, and he seems confident that it is possible to take spirituality out of the province of religion and put it in a fully rational and scientific venue, stripping out the superstition. M and his the movement took a stab at doing this, but never really succeeded and fell back into its Hindu roots either by fault or by design. To quote Harris: Authors who attempt to build a bridge between science and spirituality tend to make one of two mistakes: Scientists generally start with an impoverished view of spiritual experience, assuming that it must be a grandiose way of describing ordinary states of mind— parental love, artistic inspiration, awe at the beauty of the night sky. In this vein, one finds Einstein’s amazement at the intelligibility of Nature’s laws described as though it were a kind of mystical insight. New Age thinkers usually enter the ditch on the other side of the road: They idealize altered states of consciousness and draw specious connections between subjective experience and the spookier theories at the frontiers of physics. Here we are told that the Buddha and other contemplatives anticipated modern cosmology or quantum mechanics and that by transcending the sense of self, a person can realize his identity with the One Mind that gave birth to the cosmos. In the end, we are left to choose between pseudo-spirituality and pseudo-science... ...Spirituality must be distinguished from religion—because people of every faith, and of none, have had the same sorts of spiritual experiences. While these states of mind are usually interpreted through the lens of one or another religious doctrine, we know that this is a mistake. Nothing that a Christian, a Muslim, and a Hindu can experience—self-transcending love,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
very excited about it, of course. and those posters were probably were a result of that crazy enthusiasm. but pretty quickly the program settled into a more realistic perspective. And I always enjoyed my practice. felt like I got a lot out of it. had some nice experiences, but nothing I could say was an experience of the actual sutras. oh, and as far as being balanced. I think you've got the wrong guy in mind. I feel like I'm on a roller coaster much of the time. thrilling, but close to crashing at any time. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : And how did you respond when you first heard of the TM Siddhi program oh mr. common sense I am so balanced bullshitter? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : As usual you are wrong. The Movement didn't screw up. It did exactly what it intended to do - it advertised its lies and its bullshit programs in such a blatant over the top fashion that a lot of gullible people said Well, Marshy is enlightened so it must be true and he is so focused on science he couldn't say this if it wasn't true. Yes, Michael, I knew this was coming. This is your fantasy, this infallibility. All you are saying is that you bit down hard on every claim made, without exercising some common sense discrimination. We will solve the age old problems of mankind in this generation I don't know too many that took that claim, hook, line and sinker, but it is statements like this, the reality of which didn't materialize on which you base you case. So the lying ass got he wanted - a core of really hard core believers who would form the continuing core of payers - those who funded him and his greedy lazy family. And today it really isn't the hardcore Bevans and Neal Pattersons who enable the Movement and allow it to continue to royally support these lazy bastards who live by scams and con artistry and suck people into what has indeed become a cult. It is the people like you who will tell people I know the Movement has done some things it shouldn't have done, but TM is solid, I got a lot out of it and blah blah blah. It is too bad, that the world doesn't come around to your way of thinking. It appears to cause you endless anger and frustration. What is really amusing though, (and I chuckle even now, thinking about it), is when you play the ultimate channel card and tell people their true reasons for doing things. I don't know where you get this off world information. You've been pretty coy about revealing your channel handle. Breaker, breaker, you've got MJ here calling upon_, the disembodied entity here to help me tell you folks why you do, and don't do certain things Jeez, talk about something that didn't pan out! You are still living with your head in the sand ignoring behavior you would never tolerate in any friends or business associates and hate in the governments and organizations who act the same way the Movement does. Keep your head down, but don't expect the rest of the world to go along with it. Michael, in case you didn't notice, I'm not the one putting forth some agenda. That's your deal, and judging from the rising pitch of your angst, it doesn't appear to bepanning out too well for you. On the other hand, every day you always reach a crescendo of anger. Usually you hit it a little earlier in the day. No worries. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were I never saw them, but evidently they had a life expectancy of about a week, (or maybe less). So, your point is, I guess, that the movement screwed up by producing some literature that really made no sense, and then evidently pulled it. I think everyone gets the point, Michael, except you, that the movement does, and has screwed up. We know that because each and every instance of that is ferreted out by you and trumpeted here. And the movement continues on, as does your campaign to discredit it. And so, really, what else is new. Tomorrow, you will produce some new discovery, and the day after that, as well. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are telling me you never saw the second poster? Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are telling me you never saw the second poster? A classic of daring bullshit, but I'd want to see an invisible person levitating before I signed up! Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA - call the LA center and ask them about it. Are you trying to imply that someone created these things to discredit the Movement? There are way too many people here on FFL who remember these for you to get by with that. If you want the source as to who has put it up on the internet, surely you have sense enough to realize it isn't anyone currently in good standing with the TMO - you think the Movement wants people to remember this shit? Do what I did and do an image search for transcendental meditation supernormal powers or transcendental meditation supernormal abilities - you will get slightly different results doing both. Now that I have wasted time teaching you how to do an image search, here is one more that will perhaps be to your liking since it has no mention of money for the lecture. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Many people balked at the TM-SIdhis and the movement splintered to some extent at that point. Some people balked at the puja being required and ACEM grew out of that. They've even started publishing studies on ACEM meditation. As far Judy? I've corresponded with her occasionally via email over the years and she's always answered back until my last email which I sent out a couple of weeks ago. Her presence on the web has never been very large, and the last webpage I can find that mentions her is months and months (years?) out of date. But my emails haven't started bouncing back to me yet, so perhaps she's still around or perhaps the account is of the type that persists indefinitely, such as yahoo.com or gmail accounts. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : How did I respond to the TM posters announcing the siddhi program? I cringed. By the time they came out, yeah, hey, I'd had some nice spiritual experiences, I was making book at the Napa center wherein THREE PERCENT of the folks were initiated in a couple years flat. Yeah, the earthquake Napa. Population 50,000 back then. And then that poster came out. At first, I was indoctrinated enough by the six monthers who came to the Berkeley center and SAID THEY SAW PEOPLE FLYING. They said stuff like: This is the course we've all been waiting for. This is the course to take you to enlightenment. Etc. And I believed. Yes, I fucking did. So when the poster came out before I got the siddhis myself, ya'd athunk that Mr. True Believer here would be buzzed to do that Trotakacharya trip. But it was a bitch going around putting posters up, even though I was slurping the Kool-Anand-Ade...mostly. (The gig was paying me enough to run the center and eat at Baskin Robbins three times a week, ya know? It was a dream job for a hippy in VAST DENIAL. Ha!) But, let's put the whole confessional on the barrel top: after eight months rounding in Europe, after 1500 initiations, I was hesitant to even put up the posters that merely had Maharishi's 3x4 inch photo at the top -- up until then we had these other photoless posters. The Merv era being what a boon it was, yet still I was shuddering to represent the selling of the siddhis. It was a challenge to me even though I'd had good experiences, was sold out, was hauling in 50 pounds of puja fruit a week, and yet still I knew what I was up against as I asked each shopkeeper for permission to put up the poster. Got about 70% no and it just totally sucked. See? I still didn't want to be a ninny to these strangers, these shopkeepers, these spiritual NOBODYS, heh, but there I was: I needed them to help me spread a religion, so I was miserable postering the town. Sue me. And note that after all my great TM shit, I still had not had any magical psychological transformation into a saintly presence, and there I was pretty much being a shuck and jiver in my own eyes -- at the least for presenting myself as a teacher of any ken when there I was stuck in the relative yet still. Very stuck. And I had to have about three dozen serious whacks by REAL LIFE to finally stop meditating. Stop all of it, except reading books about Advaita very very very slowly with a lot of thoughts processing it all. You? I don't know what almost any of ye are doing? Out of the closet you buggerssee me above? What a hide-from-reality twit I was.it's not that painful to admit now after decades, so yeah, I'm getting off easier than some of ya who might have been a whole lot more dedicated to evolution from the get-go and thus: you've hard wired you nervous system to produce correct thinkingmostly. But OUT! Out outnow! Heh. And as long as I'm riffing: Ya know, I think it's a fucking shame that we don't give two shits about Judy who may be dead in her apartment somewhere, but we don't -- after a decade -- know her phone number. This is the TMO -- taught us to suspect everyone as non-enlightened and unworthy -- to avoid intimacy -- while elevating Fat Fuck, Egg-head Fuck and Raja Fucks on golden pedestals. Signed, Edward Fucking William (aka Edg) Duveyoung -- come at you TMO fuckers -- take me on for slander -- I'm in the phone book and y'all is insane.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were
Rick Archer was part of the team that came to Tucson back in the day and spoke to us about the new TM-SIdhis courses. I remember the posters as well. They were never embraced whole-heartedly by anyone here in Tucson that I am aware of but were merely passed around quietly. Certainly I never was given a handful to put up on bulletin boards around town and I knew all the best spots to put up posters. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are telling me you never saw the second poster? A classic of daring bullshit, but I'd want to see an invisible person levitating before I signed up! Everyone has seen that one and it also lists a charge - it was not an intro lecture, it was a lecture about the siddhis. These were held in 1976-77 and by the way the source is the fucking Movement you goofball. Look at the first one representatives of Maharishi International University and it was held in LA - call the LA center and ask them about it. Are you trying to imply that someone created these things to discredit the Movement? There are way too many people here on FFL who remember these for you to get by with that. If you want the source as to who has put it up on the internet, surely you have sense enough to realize it isn't anyone currently in good standing with the TMO - you think the Movement wants people to remember this shit? Do what I did and do an image search for transcendental meditation supernormal powers or transcendental meditation supernormal abilities - you will get slightly different results doing both. Now that I have wasted time teaching you how to do an image search, here is one more that will perhaps be to your liking since it has no mention of money for the lecture. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were Why don't you tell me source of this poster. I was not an active teacher after I left MIU in 1981. But what I am saying, is that this literature does not look familiar to me. It looks out of character, So, again, where did you find it? Is that an unreasonable question? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : All right Mr. Skeptical, take a look at the more well known TM Siddhi ad flyer - everyone has seen this one and it says invisibility in plain English. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: What Gullible Fools We Were A little strange. I have never seen a charge for an introductory lecture as it shows here. I wonder if this was someone making their own marketing materials. Nor, do I recall invisibility ever being advertised. Care to share the source of this find? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : What a bunch of liars - I have never met a single TM'er who could honestly say they had fulfilled all desires - I can't believe any of us fell for this.
