Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-)
I haven't read all the literature or watched the videos about his place but I was under the impression that it is set up to be a sanctuary not a rescue or shelter type situation. Most of his cats weren't pets but homeless cats that were living on the streets anyway. So his place is probably better than living on the street. Probably also has ferals that were at a pound ready to be executed because they're not adoptable. He also takes in ferals that can no longer live at the colony location. sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC - Reply message - From: dlgegg dlg...@windstream.net Date: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 6:08 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org I thought about this too, but he might not let me bring them in the house because I felt guilty leaving them outside. Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com wrote: This man has put a lot of time and effort into this! This is a wonderful heartfelt endeavor. He must really love his cats. They certainly look healthy to me. I applaud him! I may just marry him(-: Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. On Sep 11, 2011, at 4:22 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Check out the video in Atia's message. I did and when I was viewing his video, I checked out another from a girl who had pictures that suggested it was not so good. It was good that they get food and have houses to sleep in and it is fenced, but just with a normal cyclone fence that cats and coyotes cold easily get over. And with that many cats and not much help in the caring department, it is hard to see how he could keep up with who is sick,hurt. His video also said he bears most of the cost with some donations to help. I also worry about who will take over when he dies since he doesn't look like a youngster. Does he have provisions for continuing care of the cats. Also, if people take their pets to him expecting them to get the same care they gave them, would they? My guys go outside for 2 or 3 hour in the day but they are inside at night and bad weather days. The are used to sleeping on my memory foam bed and me. I do not think they would be happy there. Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: Seems like I read the woman in CA does have her property fenced in. She doesn't actually have as much acreage as this other guy. She has a staff of like 25 people. I never heard that about the other guy so who knows if his property is fenced in. But it seems like he takes in ferals and homeless cats who have absolutely nowhere else to go so even if it isn't an ideal home situation those cats are a lot better off with him. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 21:21:51 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) Isn't that in Florida? All little houses; but how does one keep track of them out there, and so many, how can he know who's sick? Don't they get out? Is it all fenced in? I had so many questions when I saw the video Man builds cat-sized village for homeless cats: http://green.yahoo.com/blog/guest_bloggers/69/man-builds-cat-sized-village-for-homeless-cats.html . There's also a woman in CA, I think, who has 600 cats - looks like a great place. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:50 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) I could sell my place and move there. I only have 7 cats and if they dn't get alog well with yours, I could build them an outdoor day time house. At night they could sleep in my bedroom like they do now. I wouldn't mind takin on a few more cats. Or waht about this guy in Oregon who bought 600 acres of an old tree farm. He takes in strays, unwanteds and lets the roam the 600 acres. He builds all kinds of houses for them to sleep in and spends the day checking up on them and giving each one some loving. longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: ___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
On 09-12, dot winkler wrote: Hysterical! L.O.L. I love it. The thing is, yes, some of them hunt and actually use the meat - smoke it, make sausage with it (yuck!). At least they are eating the deer. But the thing is, the animal is so beautiful a creature to behold and so delicate. How can anyone have the heart to kill them? They are graceful and grace our woods and lands. To see one in your yard is a special and breathtaking sight. I don't see how anyone could do it. _ I could never kill a deer. Many deer come to our yard, and they are so beautiful. Last winter some bastard shot the leg off one of them. It was right at the knee and it was just dangling for weeks. Finally it dropped off and thankfully it never got infected. She still comes to our house, and still keeps up with her group. She's an amazing, brave little doe and we call her Tripod. Lorrie Tripod and she in our yard ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Hunters etc
On 09-12, Natalie wrote: Welcome to my kinda club! Natalie, you and I see eye to eye about everything. You're my kinda person. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters factory farmers
On 09-12, MaiMaiPG wrote: Yupbut feel a lot better about hunters who kill for food than for factory farmers. Very true. Both kinds are detestable On Sep 12, 2011, at 3:07 PM, dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net wrote: I would have to be very hungry before I could look into those big brown eyes and then pull the trigger. Have to make it on berries. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*(
So sorry for your loss of Avery. I bet you gave him such a great life. Lynda - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: Felvtalk Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:42 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( We lost our Sids kid Avery today...He was a beautiful fluffy gray guy with the most beautiful eyes. He will be missed by MANY volunteers. I love you Avery sweet boy. Sherry We who choose to surround ourselves with lives more temporary than our own, Live within a fragile circle,easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps. We still would have it no other way -- ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
Oh my gosh!! I could not put up with all that as long as you did! Is Dove meat really that good? I would not think there would be much meat on them. Dove hunting is still popular here in Texas and I don't like it. My bird feeder stays full all the time and I have two doves that come in the late afternoon and feed on the seed that is on the ground around the bird feeder. They are beautiful birds. I only have one pigeon that lost it's mate about 3 yrs ago that comes around my feeder as well. I could never imagine shooting them. - Original Message - From: Georgetta Brickey To: FeLV List Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:51 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Hunters Your posts reminded me of something that happened 40+ years ago on our family farm in Central California... during dove hunting season. We did not allow hunters on our property, but when dying doves fell in our fields and pastures after being shot nearby, hunters would climb over our fences to retrieve the bloody bodies. One afternoon the shotgun pellets were raining down on our roof and through the branches of our oak trees and we were afraid to go outside so Mom called the county sheriff. When he arrived to talk to them about unsafe shooting... Mom noticed his hand was bandaged...an idiot dove hunter had actually shot the deputy in the hand!!! Go figure! When I drove my 25 miles to work, each morning I felt like a cardboard duck in a fair shooting gallery... groups of hunters parked on their backsides sitting on coolers of beer with umbrellas erected overhead would wait on both sides of the road for flocks to fly over. I managed to get to work unscathed for 5 years, but was never certain I would survive the Sept - Nov. annual killing season. Our hunting neighbor across the road went out with a few friends and came back with only one eye... not a single friend would admit he fired the blinding shot. Nice, huh? Georgetta -- ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
It just breaks my heart when we lived in Austin, Tx that there were so many deer starving, they would shoot them rather than feed them. In fact, I worked for a CPA that would litterally climb a tree and have a pile of corn on the ground, wait for the deer to start eating and shoot it. It made me sick and I certainly gave him my opinion on it. Deer are such beautiful animals. - Original Message - From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters On 09-12, dot winkler wrote: Hysterical! L.O.L. I love it. The thing is, yes, some of them hunt and actually use the meat - smoke it, make sausage with it (yuck!). At least they are eating the deer. But the thing is, the animal is so beautiful a creature to behold and so delicate. How can anyone have the heart to kill them? They are graceful and grace our woods and lands. To see one in your yard is a special and breathtaking sight. I don't see how anyone could do it. _ I could never kill a deer. Many deer come to our yard, and they are so beautiful. Last winter some bastard shot the leg off one of them. It was right at the knee and it was just dangling for weeks. Finally it dropped off and thankfully it never got infected. She still comes to our house, and still keeps up with her group. She's an amazing, brave little doe and we call her Tripod. Lorrie Tripod and she in our yard ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-)
That was my impression. From the cats' point of view, they are a lot better off--safer, fed, sheltered. I hope they are s/n. On Sep 13, 2011, at 4:36 AM, molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: I haven't read all the literature or watched the videos about his place but I was under the impression that it is set up to be a sanctuary not a rescue or shelter type situation. Most of his cats weren't pets but homeless cats that were living on the streets anyway. So his place is probably better than living on the street. Probably also has ferals that were at a pound ready to be executed because they're not adoptable. He also takes in ferals that can no longer live at the colony location. sent from my ATT Smartphone by HTC - Reply message - From: dlgegg dlg...@windstream.net Date: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 6:08 pm Subject: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org I thought about this too, but he might not let me bring them in the house because I felt guilty leaving them outside. Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com wrote: This man has put a lot of time and effort into this! This is a wonderful heartfelt endeavor. He must really love his cats. They certainly look healthy to me. I applaud him! I may just marry him(-: Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. On Sep 11, 2011, at 4:22 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: Check out the video in Atia's message. I did and when I was viewing his video, I checked out another from a girl who had pictures that suggested it was not so good. It was good that they get food and have houses to sleep in and it is fenced, but just with a normal cyclone fence that cats and coyotes cold easily get over. And with that many cats and not much help in the caring department, it is hard to see how he could keep up with who is sick,hurt. His video also said he bears most of the cost with some donations to help. I also worry about who will take over when he dies since he doesn't look like a youngster. Does he have provisions for continuing care of the cats. Also, if people take their pets to him expecting them to get the same care they gave them, would they? My guys go outside for 2 or 3 hour in the day but they are inside at night and bad weather days. The are used to sleeping on my memory foam bed and me. I do not think they would be happy there. Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: Seems like I read the woman in CA does have her property fenced in. She doesn't actually have as much acreage as this other guy. She has a staff of like 25 people. I never heard that about the other guy so who knows if his property is fenced in. But it seems like he takes in ferals and homeless cats who have absolutely nowhere else to go so even if it isn't an ideal home situation those cats are a lot better off with him. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 21:21:51 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) Isn't that in Florida? All little houses; but how does one keep track of them out there, and so many, how can he know who's sick? Don't they get out? Is it all fenced in? I had so many questions when I saw the video Man builds cat-sized village for homeless cats: http://green.yahoo.com/blog/guest_bloggers/69/man-builds-cat-sized-village-for-homeless-cats.html . There's also a woman in CA, I think, who has 600 cats - looks like a great place. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:50 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Living forever :-) I could sell my place and move there. I only have 7 cats and if they dn't get alog well with yours, I could build them an outdoor day time house. At night they could sleep in my bedroom like they do now. I wouldn't mind takin on a few more cats. Or waht about this guy in Oregon who bought 600 acres of an old tree farm. He takes in strays, unwanteds and lets the roam the 600 acres. He builds all kinds of houses for them to sleep in and spends the day checking up on them and giving each one some loving. longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: ___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
My boss has 16 acres in a rural area. He's got a deer feeder there, and also has a place WAY up north, where baby bears sometimes come to raid the animal feeders he's got there. But he's also got like 97,000 guns of all types, and goes out gopher-hunting on his LawnBoy. I have to really zen out when he's talking about things he's killed. BTW, he is our county's Medical Examiner and has seen more human devastation and death than anybody ever should have to. I just get to see pictures of it. You would think he'd want to get as far from death as possible in his off-time, but no. Diane R. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dot winkler Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 7:56 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters Hysterical! L.O.L. I love it. The thing is, yes, some of them hunt and actually use the meat - smoke it, make sausage with it (yuck!). At least they are eating the deer. But the thing is, the animal is so beautiful a creature to behold and so delicate. How can anyone have the heart to kill them? They are graceful and grace our woods and lands. To see one in your yard is a special and breathtaking sight. I don't see how anyone could do it. _ From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters Oh how I hate hunters. They are not conservationists, but murderers. No hunting is allowed in our resort community, but we can hear them in the surrounding areas getting ready for the killing, which they think of as sport! I love it when I read in the paper about hunting accidents where some jerk head hunter shot his buddy instead of the deer!! Lorrie On 09-12, Natalie wrote: What really pisses me off when those damned hunters refer to themselves, and are referred to as the only real conservationists...what a joke! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
I can't imagine much meat on them, and I doubt they're willing to cook them for an ounce of meat - it's only for sport, and the pigeons they shoot are trapped in cities and transported to the shooting sites. That's why they're in those traps for so long without food or water. Some even die in there. 99% of deer hunting is for a trophy! If they want to eat deer that have been eating toxic substances, or get something like mad Cow disease, in deer it's Chronic Wasting, it doesn't show up in a long time, like 20 yrs or more... From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:55 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters Oh my gosh!! I could not put up with all that as long as you did! Is Dove meat really that good? I would not think there would be much meat on them. Dove hunting is still popular here in Texas and I don't like it. My bird feeder stays full all the time and I have two doves that come in the late afternoon and feed on the seed that is on the ground around the bird feeder. They are beautiful birds. I only have one pigeon that lost it's mate about 3 yrs ago that comes around my feeder as well. I could never imagine shooting them. - Original Message - From: Georgetta Brickey mailto:gebr...@hotmail.com To: FeLV List mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:51 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Hunters Your posts reminded me of something that happened 40+ years ago on our family farm in Central California... during dove hunting season. We did not allow hunters on our property, but when dying doves fell in our fields and pastures after being shot nearby, hunters would climb over our fences to retrieve the bloody bodies. One afternoon the shotgun pellets were raining down on our roof and through the branches of our oak trees and we were afraid to go outside so Mom called the county sheriff. When he arrived to talk to them about unsafe shooting... Mom noticed his hand was bandaged...an idiot dove hunter had actually shot the deputy in the hand!!! Go figure! When I drove my 25 miles to work, each morning I felt like a cardboard duck in a fair shooting gallery... groups of hunters parked on their backsides sitting on coolers of beer with umbrellas erected overhead would wait on both sides of the road for flocks to fly over. I managed to get to work unscathed for 5 years, but was never certain I would survive the Sept - Nov. annual killing season. Our hunting neighbor across the road went out with a few friends and came back with only one eye... not a single friend would admit he fired the blinding shot. Nice, huh? Georgetta _ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
Actually, the deer aren't responsible for overpopulation; they are managed for maximum sustained yield, for only one reason: to supply better hunting opportunities and revenues from hunting license fees. If they were left alone, their numbers would be normal, and just enough to fill the biological carrying capacity of an area that can sustain their numbers. And, yet, you always hear: Isn't it kinder to kill them than to let them starve? Then why would they want such skinny deer? Because they really care only about that rack, and a few lbs of meat are irrelevant. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters It just breaks my heart when we lived in Austin, Tx that there were so many deer starving, they would shoot them rather than feed them. In fact, I worked for a CPA that would litterally climb a tree and have a pile of corn on the ground, wait for the deer to start eating and shoot it. It made me sick and I certainly gave him my opinion on it. Deer are such beautiful animals. - Original Message - From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters On 09-12, dot winkler wrote: Hysterical! L.O.L. I love it. The thing is, yes, some of them hunt and actually use the meat - smoke it, make sausage with it (yuck!). At least they are eating the deer. But the thing is, the animal is so beautiful a creature to behold and so delicate. How can anyone have the heart to kill them? They are graceful and grace our woods and lands. To see one in your yard is a special and breathtaking sight. I don't see how anyone could do it. _ I could never kill a deer. Many deer come to our yard, and they are so beautiful. Last winter some bastard shot the leg off one of them. It was right at the knee and it was just dangling for weeks. Finally it dropped off and thankfully it never got infected. She still comes to our house, and still keeps up with her group. She's an amazing, brave little doe and we call her Tripod. Lorrie Tripod and she in our yard ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
Unfortunately, you are so right, Natalie :( - Original Message - From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters Actually, the deer aren't responsible for overpopulation; they are managed for maximum sustained yield, for only one reason: to supply better hunting opportunities and revenues from hunting license fees. If they were left alone, their numbers would be normal, and just enough to fill the biological carrying capacity of an area that can sustain their numbers. And, yet, you always hear: Isn't it kinder to kill them than to let them starve? Then why would they want such skinny deer? Because they really care only about that rack, and a few lbs of meat are irrelevant. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters It just breaks my heart when we lived in Austin, Tx that there were so many deer starving, they would shoot them rather than feed them. In fact, I worked for a CPA that would litterally climb a tree and have a pile of corn on the ground, wait for the deer to start eating and shoot it. It made me sick and I certainly gave him my opinion on it. Deer are such beautiful animals. - Original Message - From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters On 09-12, dot winkler wrote: Hysterical! L.O.L. I love it. The thing is, yes, some of them hunt and actually use the meat - smoke it, make sausage with it (yuck!). At least they are eating the deer. But the thing is, the animal is so beautiful a creature to behold and so delicate. How can anyone have the heart to kill them? They are graceful and grace our woods and lands. To see one in your yard is a special and breathtaking sight. I don't see how anyone could do it. _ I could never kill a deer. Many deer come to our yard, and they are so beautiful. Last winter some bastard shot the leg off one of them. It was right at the knee and it was just dangling for weeks. Finally it dropped off and thankfully it never got infected. She still comes to our house, and still keeps up with her group. She's an amazing, brave little doe and we call her Tripod. Lorrie Tripod and she in our yard ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
The have controlled deer hunts in Princeton, NJ (about 20 miles from where I live) every year. They claim it's for the safety of the residents. They also claim that we are overpopulated. Which is hogwash -- humans took over their natural habitat, so we kill them just to thin out the herd? Puh-leeze. Ticks me off. They send snipers and sharpshooters to kill them with bolt-like bullets. They make a big thing out of it every year on the NJ talk radio. Those people in Princeton are more concerned with how their lawns look than they are about the deer -- and yet they shop at Whole Earth Center and won't eat anything that isn't organic. Hypocrites. T - Original Message - From: Nataliemailto:at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters Actually, the deer aren't responsible for overpopulation; they are managed for maximum sustained yield, for only one reason: to supply better hunting opportunities and revenues from hunting license fees. If they were left alone, their numbers would be normal, and just enough to fill the biological carrying capacity of an area that can sustain their numbers. And, yet, you always hear: Isn't it kinder to kill them than to let them starve? Then why would they want such skinny deer? Because they really care only about that rack, and a few lbs of meat are irrelevant. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters It just breaks my heart when we lived in Austin, Tx that there were so many deer starving, they would shoot them rather than feed them. In fact, I worked for a CPA that would litterally climb a tree and have a pile of corn on the ground, wait for the deer to start eating and shoot it. It made me sick and I certainly gave him my opinion on it. Deer are such beautiful animals. - Original Message - From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.commailto:felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters On 09-12, dot winkler wrote: Hysterical! L.O.L. I love it. The thing is, yes, some of them hunt and actually use the meat - smoke it, make sausage with it (yuck!). At least they are eating the deer. But the thing is, the animal is so beautiful a creature to behold and so delicate. How can anyone have the heart to kill them? They are graceful and grace our woods and lands. To see one in your yard is a special and breathtaking sight. I don't see how anyone could do it. _ I could never kill a deer. Many deer come to our yard, and they are so beautiful. Last winter some bastard shot the leg off one of them. It was right at the knee and it was just dangling for weeks. Finally it dropped off and thankfully it never got infected. She still comes to our house, and still keeps up with her group. She's an amazing, brave little doe and we call her Tripod. Lorrie Tripod and she in our yard ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*(
I am so sorry for your loss Sherry. Has anyone here dealt with Lymphoma in their kitties before? Miller is not Feluk+ but he was diagnosed with Lymphoma last week and I am not sure if the treatment and stress of catching him to medicate him and take him to the vet every day this week (hubby is out of town and he needs eye meds 4 times a day) is worse than the actual disease :( He is so stressed and he won't even let me pet him anymore, he just runs from me :( Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:32:23 -0500 From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( Im so sorry Sherry3 Animals have the purest of soulssometimes I just don't understand their deaths! On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Sherry DeHaan sherryd...@yahoo.com wrote: We lost our Sids kid Avery today...He was a beautiful fluffy gray guy with the most beautiful eyes. He will be missed by MANY volunteers. I love you Avery sweet boy. Sherry We who choose to surround ourselves with lives more temporary than our own, Live within a fragile circle,easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps. We still would have it no other way ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:785-230-6499 I wish to address ethics as it applies to our companion animals. As a veterinarian, I am an advocate for the rights of these wonderful beings who inhabit the earth and our homes, sharing this journey with us. It is my conviction that these animals,and all plants and animals, domesticated or wild, have inherent rights that are separate from their ability to benefit humans. They have the same right to exist as we do. Don Hamilton DVM ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*(
I've had several friends whose cats had lymphoma, and one dealing with it right now. Her cat, Jasper, is NOT FeLV+, and is on oral chemo (Leukeron) right now, 2X a week. It also depends on how much progressed it is. So sorry, I know how you feel - when all you do to a cat is give some kind of treatment all the time, pretty soon they assume that you will do so every time you approach them.. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( I am so sorry for your loss Sherry. Has anyone here dealt with Lymphoma in their kitties before? Miller is not Feluk+ but he was diagnosed with Lymphoma last week and I am not sure if the treatment and stress of catching him to medicate him and take him to the vet every day this week (hubby is out of town and he needs eye meds 4 times a day) is worse than the actual disease :( He is so stressed and he won't even let me pet him anymore, he just runs from me :( _ Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:32:23 -0500 From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( Im so sorry Sherry3 Animals have the purest of soulssometimes I just don't understand their deaths! On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Sherry DeHaan sherryd...@yahoo.com wrote: We lost our Sids kid Avery today...He was a beautiful fluffy gray guy with the most beautiful eyes. He will be missed by MANY volunteers. I love you Avery sweet boy. Sherry We who choose to surround ourselves with lives more temporary than our own, Live within a fragile circle,easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps. We still would have it no other way ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:785-230-6499 I wish to address ethics as it applies to our companion animals. As a veterinarian, I am an advocate for the rights of these wonderful beings who inhabit the earth and our homes, sharing this journey with us. It is my conviction that these animals,and all plants and animals, domesticated or wild, have inherent rights that are separate from their ability to benefit humans. They have the same right to exist as we do. Don Hamilton DVM ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters/PLEASE EXPLAIN
Please explain what you mean by managed for maximum sustained yield. From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters Actually, the deer aren't responsible for overpopulation; they are managed for maximum sustained yield, for only one reason: to supply better hunting opportunities and revenues from hunting license fees. If they were left alone, their numbers would be normal, and just enough to fill the biological carrying capacity of an area that can sustain their numbers. And, yet, you always hear: Isn't it kinder to kill them than to let them starve? Then why would they want such skinny deer? Because they really care only about that rack, and a few lbs of meat are irrelevant. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters It just breaks my heart when we lived in Austin, Tx that there were so many deer starving, they would shoot them rather than feed them. In fact, I worked for a CPA that would litterally climb a tree and have a pile of corn on the ground, wait for the deer to start eating and shoot it. It made me sick and I certainly gave him my opinion on it. Deer are such beautiful animals. - Original Message - From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters On 09-12, dot winkler wrote: Hysterical! L.O.L. I love it. The thing is, yes, some of them hunt and actually use the meat - smoke it, make sausage with it (yuck!). At least they are eating the deer. But the thing is, the animal is so beautiful a creature to behold and so delicate. How can anyone have the heart to kill them? They are graceful and grace our woods and lands. To see one in your yard is a special and breathtaking sight. I don't see how anyone could do it. _ I could never kill a deer. Many deer come to our yard, and they are so beautiful. Last winter some bastard shot the leg off one of them. It was right at the knee and it was just dangling for weeks. Finally it dropped off and thankfully it never got infected. She still comes to our house, and still keeps up with her group. She's an amazing, brave little doe and we call her Tripod. Lorrie Tripod and she in our yard ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*(
We bought the oral chemo pills and I spoke to the doctor about Miller and unfortunately, his is rather progressed and she said, on average, cats can live another 6 months on the oral meds and up to 2-3 years with the injectible chemo drugs. We are going to try the injections this week and see how he does. Once Frank comes home from the road, he can go home twice a day to administer the eye meds Miller needs so I won't have to chase him down, put him in a carrier and take him to the vet's office to stay all day :( I just keep wondering if we are doing the right thing. I don't want his last days with us to be ones filled with vet visits and fear :( Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:35:17 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( I’ve had several friends whose cats had lymphoma, and one dealing with it right now. Her cat, Jasper, is NOT FeLV+, and is on oral chemo (Leukeron) right now, 2X a week. It also depends on how much progressed it is. So sorry, I know how you feel – when all you do to a cat is give some kind of treatment all the time, pretty soon they assume that you will do so every time you approach them…. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( I am so sorry for your loss Sherry. Has anyone here dealt with Lymphoma in their kitties before? Miller is not Feluk+ but he was diagnosed with Lymphoma last week and I am not sure if the treatment and stress of catching him to medicate him and take him to the vet every day this week (hubby is out of town and he needs eye meds 4 times a day) is worse than the actual disease :( He is so stressed and he won't even let me pet him anymore, he just runs from me :( Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:32:23 -0500 From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( Im so sorry Sherry3 Animals have the purest of soulssometimes I just don't understand their deaths! On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Sherry DeHaan sherryd...@yahoo.com wrote: We lost our Sids kid Avery today...He was a beautiful fluffy gray guy with the most beautiful eyes. He will be missed by MANY volunteers. I love you Avery sweet boy. Sherry We who choose to surround ourselves with lives more temporary than our own, Live within a fragile circle,easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps. We still would have it no other way ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:785-230-6499 I wish to address ethics as it applies to our companion animals. As a veterinarian, I am an advocate for the rights of these wonderful beings who inhabit the earth and our homes, sharing this journey with us. It is my conviction that these animals,and all plants and animals, domesticated or wild, have inherent rights that are separate from their ability to benefit humans. They have the same right to exist as we do. Don Hamilton DVM ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Miller
I know what you mean.how would you feel about contacting a fantastic animal communicator in CA and see what Miller wants and would prefer? I just spoke to her about a renal failure cat that I want to make sure that it's the right time for euthanasia this afternoon. Maybe the trade-off to a shorter but happier life is better than a prolonged one with vet visits and shots, which Miller obviously doesn't seem to enjoy! That's how I feel about people's lives, too! Her name is Lisa Larson, at the very bottom, is a contact line.she is also the most reasonable, and last year, even kept calling me to find out how one of our cats was doing who had cancer. I've known some who count every second to get paid for.not Lisa! Everyone who asked for her help, was very pleased! I highly recommend her as being absolutely fantastic, caring, and knows what she's doing. Although her schedule today is filled, she squeezed in some time to contact Fraidie, from photos I sent her. If we euthanize Fraidie this afternoon, we will speak on the phone and contact her from across the rainbow bridge. http://pawstalk.net/ Animal Communicator, Animal Medium, Reiki Master Lisa Larson is an animal communicator, Reiki Master and Kahi practitioner. Includes a forum, description of sessions and fees and personal profile. Encinitas, California. pawstalk.net - http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7pyehW9OlGoAWhpjmolQ/SIG=1ai7h6l1g/EXP=1 315960350/**http%3a/74.6.238.252/search/srpcache%3fei=UTF-8%26p=Lisa%2bLarso n%2b-%2banimal%2bcommunicator%26fr=goodsearch-yhsif%26u=http%3a/cc.bingj.com /cache.aspx%3fq=Lisa%2bLarson%2b-%2banimal%2bcommunicator%26d=47360134806927 60%26mkt=en-US%26setlang=en-US%26w=fe7b2ff1,e032b730%26icp=1%26.intl=us%26si g=F.BwvQIVlr6KyndIyGB4jg-- Cached From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:06 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( We bought the oral chemo pills and I spoke to the doctor about Miller and unfortunately, his is rather progressed and she said, on average, cats can live another 6 months on the oral meds and up to 2-3 years with the injectible chemo drugs. We are going to try the injections this week and see how he does. Once Frank comes home from the road, he can go home twice a day to administer the eye meds Miller needs so I won't have to chase him down, put him in a carrier and take him to the vet's office to stay all day :( I just keep wondering if we are doing the right thing. I don't want his last days with us to be ones filled with vet visits and fear :( _ Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:35:17 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( I've had several friends whose cats had lymphoma, and one dealing with it right now. Her cat, Jasper, is NOT FeLV+, and is on oral chemo (Leukeron) right now, 2X a week. It also depends on how much progressed it is. So sorry, I know how you feel - when all you do to a cat is give some kind of treatment all the time, pretty soon they assume that you will do so every time you approach them.. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( I am so sorry for your loss Sherry. Has anyone here dealt with Lymphoma in their kitties before? Miller is not Feluk+ but he was diagnosed with Lymphoma last week and I am not sure if the treatment and stress of catching him to medicate him and take him to the vet every day this week (hubby is out of town and he needs eye meds 4 times a day) is worse than the actual disease :( He is so stressed and he won't even let me pet him anymore, he just runs from me :( _ Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:32:23 -0500 From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( Im so sorry Sherry3 Animals have the purest of soulssometimes I just don't understand their deaths! On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Sherry DeHaan sherryd...@yahoo.com wrote: We lost our Sids kid Avery today...He was a beautiful fluffy gray guy with the most beautiful eyes. He will be missed by MANY volunteers. I love you Avery sweet boy. Sherry We who choose to surround ourselves with lives more temporary than our own, Live within a fragile circle,easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps. We still would have it no other way ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:
Re: [Felvtalk] Miller
Thanks, I will look into this :) I am sorry to hear about Fraidie :( Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 12:39:19 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Miller I know what you mean…how would you feel about contacting a fantastic animal communicator in CA and see what Miller wants and would prefer? I just spoke to her about a renal failure cat that I want to make sure that it’s the right time for euthanasia this afternoon. Maybe the trade-off to a shorter but happier life is better than a prolonged one with vet visits and shots, which Miller obviously doesn’t seem to enjoy! That’s how I feel about people’s lives, too! Her name is Lisa Larson, at the very bottom, is a contact line…she is also the most reasonable, and last year, even kept calling me to find out how one of our cats was doing who had cancer. I’ve known some who count every second to get paid for…not Lisa! Everyone who asked for her help, was very pleased! I highly recommend her as being absolutely fantastic, caring, and knows what she’s doing. Although her schedule today is filled, she squeezed in some time to contact Fraidie, from photos I sent her. If we euthanize Fraidie this afternoon, we will speak on the phone and contact her from across the rainbow bridge. Animal Communicator, Animal Medium, Reiki Master Lisa Larson is an animal communicator, Reiki Master and Kahi practitioner. Includes a forum, description of sessions and fees and personal profile. Encinitas, California. pawstalk.net - Cached From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:06 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( We bought the oral chemo pills and I spoke to the doctor about Miller and unfortunately, his is rather progressed and she said, on average, cats can live another 6 months on the oral meds and up to 2-3 years with the injectible chemo drugs. We are going to try the injections this week and see how he does. Once Frank comes home from the road, he can go home twice a day to administer the eye meds Miller needs so I won't have to chase him down, put him in a carrier and take him to the vet's office to stay all day :( I just keep wondering if we are doing the right thing. I don't want his last days with us to be ones filled with vet visits and fear :( Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:35:17 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( I’ve had several friends whose cats had lymphoma, and one dealing with it right now. Her cat, Jasper, is NOT FeLV+, and is on oral chemo (Leukeron) right now, 2X a week. It also depends on how much progressed it is. So sorry, I know how you feel – when all you do to a cat is give some kind of treatment all the time, pretty soon they assume that you will do so every time you approach them…. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( I am so sorry for your loss Sherry. Has anyone here dealt with Lymphoma in their kitties before? Miller is not Feluk+ but he was diagnosed with Lymphoma last week and I am not sure if the treatment and stress of catching him to medicate him and take him to the vet every day this week (hubby is out of town and he needs eye meds 4 times a day) is worse than the actual disease :( He is so stressed and he won't even let me pet him anymore, he just runs from me :( Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:32:23 -0500 From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( Im so sorry Sherry3 Animals have the purest of soulssometimes I just don't understand their deaths! On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Sherry DeHaan sherryd...@yahoo.com wrote: We lost our Sids kid Avery today...He was a beautiful fluffy gray guy with the most beautiful eyes. He will be missed by MANY volunteers. I love you Avery sweet boy. Sherry We who choose to surround ourselves with lives more temporary than our own, Live within a fragile circle,easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps. We still would have it no other way ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:785-230-6499 I wish to address ethics as it applies to our companion animals. As a veterinarian, I am an advocate for the rights of these wonderful beings who inhabit the earth and our homes, sharing
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters/PLEASE EXPLAIN
In laymen's terms: Maximum sustained yield (MSY) - is used in game management to ensure the highest growth rate by manipulating the natural 1:1 sex ratio. For example, by allowing the killing of mostly males, which are desirable as trophies over females because of their racks, it is calculated that one male can impregnate many females (much as cattle on ranches, or chicken farms, where they may have only one rooster). It has also been found though studies in FL that in hunted herds, deer have twins/triplets at the rate of 38%, whereas in non-hunted herds this occurs only at the rate of 14%. What state wildlife agencies actually do is game management, NOT wildlife management (which they claim to do). They manipulate only certain species for surplus that are desirable and preferred for lucrative hunting. Maximum sustainable yield - There's a lot of propaganda and half-truths in this explanation, specifically regarding biological carrying capacity vs. social carrying capacity, which they never acknowledge. To some people, one deer is too many! In population ecology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_ecology and economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics , maximum sustainable yield or MSY is, theoretically, the largest yield (or catch) that can be taken from a species' stock over an indefinite period. Fundamental to the notion of sustainable harvest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_harvest , the concept of MSY aims to maintain the population size at the point of maximum growth rate by harvesting the individuals that would normally be added to the population, allowing the population to continue to be productive indefinitely. Under the assumption of logistic growth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistic_function , resource limitation does not constrain individuals' reproductive rates when populations are small, but because there are few individuals, the overall yield is small. At intermediate population densities, also represented by half the carrying capacity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity , individuals are able to breed to their maximum rate. At this point, called the maximum sustainable yield, there is a surplus of individuals that can be harvested because growth of the population is at its maximum point due to the large number reproducing individuals. Above this point, density dependent factors increasingly limit breeding until the population reaches carrying capacity. At this point, there are no surplus individuals to be harvested and yield drops to zero. The maximum sustainable yield is usually higher than the optimum sustainable yield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_sustainable_yield and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maximum_economic_yieldaction=edi tredlink=1 maximum economic yield. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dot winkler Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 10:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters/PLEASE EXPLAIN Please explain what you mean by managed for maximum sustained yield. _ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters Actually, the deer aren't responsible for overpopulation; they are managed for maximum sustained yield, for only one reason: to supply better hunting opportunities and revenues from hunting license fees. If they were left alone, their numbers would be normal, and just enough to fill the biological carrying capacity of an area that can sustain their numbers. And, yet, you always hear: Isn't it kinder to kill them than to let them starve? Then why would they want such skinny deer? Because they really care only about that rack, and a few lbs of meat are irrelevant. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters It just breaks my heart when we lived in Austin, Tx that there were so many deer starving, they would shoot them rather than feed them. In fact, I worked for a CPA that would litterally climb a tree and have a pile of corn on the ground, wait for the deer to start eating and shoot it. It made me sick and I certainly gave him my opinion on it. Deer are such beautiful animals. - Original Message - From: Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:37 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters On 09-12, dot winkler wrote: Hysterical! L.O.L. I love it. The thing is, yes, some of them hunt and actually use the meat - smoke it, make sausage with it (yuck!). At least they are eating the deer. But the thing is, the animal is so beautiful a creature to behold and so delicate. How can anyone have the heart to kill them? They
Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*(
Every kitty is different and might require a different treatment. My Fuji has survived Mediastinal lymphoma for 14 months. At this point she shows no signs of slowing down any time soon:) We live in Japan, so the treatment is a bit less than traditional. However, my vet does use a series of medications (Vincristine, Cyclophosphamide, doxorubicin and prednisone.) Because she is FeLV positive, she has a problem with her white blood cell count always being low. As a result, my Japanese vet gives her 80-90% doses once a month. She has never had any side affects and bounced back immediately with her first treatment. We had a lull in the treatments because of the low WBC count and the tumor grew again. Once she started the treatments again, she has been fine. We are not using one of the traditional protocols that may be recommended to you. However, I feel that the variation of medications helps prevent an immunity! She is just a bit more stressed every time we go, but seems to understand that I am helping her. While she waits on the table for the doctor to read her blood work, she buries her head up against me and lets me hold her there. Again, every baby is different, but I feel that it is definitely worth taking the chance! Good luck to you, Melinda, Fuji and VooDoo On Sep 13, 2011, at 10:54 PM, Edna Taylor wrote: I am so sorry for your loss Sherry. Has anyone here dealt with Lymphoma in their kitties before? Miller is not Feluk+ but he was diagnosed with Lymphoma last week and I am not sure if the treatment and stress of catching him to medicate him and take him to the vet every day this week (hubby is out of town and he needs eye meds 4 times a day) is worse than the actual disease :( He is so stressed and he won't even let me pet him anymore, he just runs from me :( Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:32:23 -0500 From: marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( Im so sorry Sherry3 Animals have the purest of soulssometimes I just don't understand their deaths! On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:42 PM, Sherry DeHaan sherryd...@yahoo.com wrote: We lost our Sids kid Avery today...He was a beautiful fluffy gray guy with the most beautiful eyes. He will be missed by MANY volunteers. I love you Avery sweet boy. Sherry We who choose to surround ourselves with lives more temporary than our own, Live within a fragile circle,easily and often breached. Unable to accept its awful gaps. We still would have it no other way ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:785-230-6499 I wish to address ethics as it applies to our companion animals. As a veterinarian, I am an advocate for the rights of these wonderful beings who inhabit the earth and our homes, sharing this journey with us. It is my conviction that these animals,and all plants and animals, domesticated or wild, have inherent rights that are separate from their ability to benefit humans. They have the same right to exist as we do. Don Hamilton DVM ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Miller
On Sep 13, 2011, at 5:43 PM, MaiMaiPG wrote: I do not know anything about the AC listed but I really believe in it. My guys have the opportunity to talk to ACs when there are important things going on. Luckily, I have some friends who do this. I encourage you to consider AC. You may find out a lot of things. Also, please put yourself in your friend's paws...literally. What would you really, in the depth of your heart and soul, really want? You may find this exercise helpful in framing your own future decisions. On Sep 13, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Natalie wrote: I know what you mean…how would you feel about contacting a fantastic animal communicator in CA and see what Miller wants and would prefer? I just spoke to her about a renal failure cat that I want to make sure that it’s the right time for euthanasia this afternoon. Maybe the trade-off to a shorter but happier life is better than a prolonged one with vet visits and shots, which Miller obviously doesn’t seem to enjoy! That’s how I feel about people’s lives, too! Her name is Lisa Larson, at the very bottom, is a contact line…she is also the most reasonable, and last year, even kept calling me to find out how one of our cats was doing who had cancer. I’ve known some who count every second to get paid for…not Lisa! Everyone who asked for her help, was very pleased! I highly recommend her as being absolutely fantastic, caring, and knows what she’s doing. Although her schedule today is filled, she squeezed in some time to contact Fraidie, from photos I sent her. If we euthanize Fraidie this afternoon, we will speak on the phone and contact her from across the rainbow bridge. Animal Communicator, Animal Medium, Reiki Master Lisa Larson is an animal communicator, Reiki Master and Kahi practitioner. Includes a forum, description of sessions and fees and personal profile. Encinitas, California. pawstalk.net - Cached From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:06 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Avery Please add to the CLS :*( We bought the oral chemo pills and I spoke to the doctor about Miller and unfortunately, his is rather progressed and she said, on average, cats can live another 6 months on the oral meds and up to 2-3 years with the injectible chemo drugs. We are going to try the injections this week and see how he does. Once Frank comes home from the road, he can go home twice a day to administer the eye meds Miller needs so I won't have to chase him down, put him in a carrier and take him to the vet's office to stay all day :( I just keep wondering if we are doing the right thing. I don't want his last days with us to be ones filled with vet visits and fear :( Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:35:17 -0400 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
Who is it the said you can tell a lot about a society by how people in it treat animals. Such disgusting cruelty. If there is reincarnation, guess who's going to be the prey in their next life? Maybe that way, they will learn a modicum of compassion.and slowly it will change. ~b. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Natalie Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:36 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters So do Canada geese (mate for life). We live on a pond, and they spend a lot of time here. We feed them, so they don't go on neighbors' properties, bothering them. We actually recognize them every year because of certain markings, etc. When one loses a mate, they stay alone. I'm not sure if they ever find another life-mate or not. I used to go to the Hegins (PA) Pigeon Shoots to protest. It was sick. Families having picnics, while their menfolk shot at pigeons that had been confined without food and water in dark little traps for days- they were released, totally disoriented, in sudden bright sdaylight. They could hardly fly up, they were so weak. Then these brave men would take potshots at them. Some injured pigeons were able to fly off, land on roofs and fields, dying a slow death. Others fell right down, flopping on the ground until teen boys nonchalantly sauntered over to them, swung them by their necks, either broke their necks, or ripped their heads off. One kid threw a decapitated pigeon at me. We had a tent set up with volunteer veterinarians and wildlife rehabbers to treat the injured birds or euthanize them humanely. It was like in Roman times, a bunch of degenerate, bored, and blood lusty people amusing themselves. Hegins Pigeon Shoot is no more, but there are still others! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Baronda Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 12:29 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters doves mate for life...that's what is so sad. another thing that is sad is people with guns chugging down the booze. No laws to protect anything from THAT! On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Georgetta Brickey gebr...@hotmail.com wrote: Your posts reminded me of something that happened 40+ years ago on our family farm in Central California... during dove hunting season. We did not allow hunters on our property, but when dying doves fell in our fields and pastures after being shot nearby, hunters would climb over our fences to retrieve the bloody bodies. One afternoon the shotgun pellets were raining down on our roof and through the branches of our oak trees and we were afraid to go outside so Mom called the county sheriff. When he arrived to talk to them about unsafe shooting... Mom noticed his hand was bandaged...an idiot dove hunter had actually shot the deputy in the hand!!! Go figure! When I drove my 25 miles to work, each morning I felt like a cardboard duck in a fair shooting gallery... groups of hunters parked on their backsides sitting on coolers of doveswith umbrellas erected overhead would wait on both sides of the road for flocks to fly over. I managed to get to work unscathed for 5 years, but was never certain I would survive the Sept - Nov. annual killing season. Our hunting neighbor across the road went out with a few friends and came back with only one eye... not a single friend would admit he fired the blinding shot. Nice, huh? Georgetta ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:785-230-6499 I wish to address ethics as it applies to our companion animals. As a veterinarian, I am an advocate for the rights of these wonderful beings who inhabit the earth and our homes, sharing this journey with us. It is my conviction that these animals,and all plants and animals, domesticated or wild, have inherent rights that are separate from their ability to benefit humans. They have the same right to exist as we do. Don Hamilton DVM ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters
I don't understand what is wrong with some of our fellow human beings. There is a total disregard for life. That just made me sick about the pigeons! Yea, big men aren't they? As bad as canned hunts which absolutely disgust me! Sent from my iPad that my most awesome kids surprised me with, Christmas 2010. On Sep 13, 2011, at 12:35 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: So do Canada geese (mate for life). We live on a pond, and they spend a lot of time here. We feed them, so they don’t go on neighbors’ properties, bothering them. We actually recognize them every year because of certain markings, etc. When one loses a mate, they stay alone. I’m not sure if they ever find another life-mate or not. I used to go to the Hegins (PA) Pigeon Shoots to protest. It was sick. Families having picnics, while their “menfolk” shot at pigeons that had been confined without food and water in dark little traps for days– they were released, totally disoriented, in sudden bright sdaylight. They could hardly fly up, they were so weak. Then these brave men would take potshots at them. Some injured pigeons were able to fly off, land on roofs and fields, dying a slow death. Others fell right down, flopping on the ground until teen boys nonchalantly sauntered over to them, swung them by their necks, either broke their necks, or ripped their heads off. One kid threw a decapitated pigeon at me. We had a tent set up with volunteer veterinarians and wildlife rehabbers to treat the injured birds or euthanize them humanely. It was like in Roman times, a bunch of degenerate, bored, and blood lusty people amusing themselves. Hegins Pigeon Shoot is no more, but there are still others! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marcia Baronda Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 12:29 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Hunters doves mate for life...that's what is so sad. another thing that is sad is people with guns chugging down the booze. No laws to protect anything from THAT! On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Georgetta Brickey gebr...@hotmail.com wrote: Your posts reminded me of something that happened 40+ years ago on our family farm in Central California... during dove hunting season. We did not allow hunters on our property, but when dying doves fell in our fields and pastures after being shot nearby, hunters would climb over our fences to retrieve the bloody bodies. One afternoon the shotgun pellets were raining down on our roof and through the branches of our oak trees and we were afraid to go outside so Mom called the county sheriff. When he arrived to talk to them about unsafe shooting... Mom noticed his hand was bandaged...an idiot dove hunter had actually shot the deputy in the hand!!! Go figure! When I drove my 25 miles to work, each morning I felt like a cardboard duck in a fair shooting gallery... groups of hunters parked on their backsides sitting on coolers of doveswith umbrellas erected overhead would wait on both sides of the road for flocks to fly over. I managed to get to work unscathed for 5 years, but was never certain I would survive the Sept - Nov. annual killing season. Our hunting neighbor across the road went out with a few friends and came back with only one eye... not a single friend would admit he fired the blinding shot. Nice, huh? Georgetta ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Marcia Baronda Baronda Supplies Service, Inc. 1550 S 2700 Rd. Herington, Kansas 67449 Phone: 785-466-2501 Cell:785-230-6499 I wish to address ethics as it applies to our companion animals. As a veterinarian, I am an advocate for the rights of these wonderful beings who inhabit the earth and our homes, sharing this journey with us. It is my conviction that these animals,and all plants and animals, domesticated or wild, have inherent rights that are separate from their ability to benefit humans. They have the same right to exist as we do. Don Hamilton DVM ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
