Thank you, please do ask her. Lucy won't eat her raw now anyway, so is on
i/d, which she will eat, which is the prescription food for ibd. ironically,
it is giving her loose bowels. her ibd does not do well on the prescription
diet. which worries me. However, this diet is specially
I would really like to get hold of acemannan for lucy before February. It
seems like no one on this list has any. And maybe no one would have it
anyway, maybe vets would have it not the people with the cats. But does anyone
know
another list that might have more people that use it-- a
So there are two different dosings (at least) for VO: The FIP dosing is
every other day. The FeLV dosing is every day for 5 days then repeat later. I
have a total of 4 doses and won't get more until next week at the earliest.
So
my question for you guys who have used VO is: Do you think I
Thanks so much! I didn't know you were still on the list! I will look at all
of that. But what I really need to find out is how to get it quickly-- in
the states it is apparently back-ordered due to some FDA audit that suspended
manufacture for a while. Do you know of anywhere in Europe
They are closed for the weekend. I left a message. It is allowed in the US
now, for the past month since the audit ended, but is back-ordered so not
actually available.
In a message dated 1/20/2007 12:13:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Acemannan (or Carrisyn)
Thanks, Hideyo. That seems really far away at this point, which kind of
scares me.
In a message dated 1/20/2007 12:49:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My order is now backed ordered for about a month and they told me that it
would be ready in the beginning of
That's for FIP, which I don't know that she has. The product info says every
day for FeLV. You think for FeLV it is better to do every other day as well?
In a message dated 1/20/2007 12:53:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Michelle –go every other day – the effect
Hideyo, that is not your fault. An autoimmune type of anemia can not be
helped by transfusions, because the problem is the body killing red blood
cells,
so it just kills the new ones too from the transfusion. The only thing that
can stop autoimmune type of anemia is immune-suppressing
Thanks. She has not been tested for those. Toxo usually causes bad
diarrhea, though, and salmanella causes incredible distress including vomiting.
I
believe e coli does as well. Lucy doesn't have those signs, thank goodness. I
asked about those diseases the last time she was sick with a
Well, the internist thinks Lucy has FIP. Despite the abdominal effusion, she
thinks it is dry FIP because the fluid does not look like FIP fluid, and
that the fluid is resulting from the effects of FIP on other organs. She
thinks
it's FIP because of something that was found in the biopsy
Has anyone here had experience with toxo? Lucy has not been tested for it,
which I am starting to think is crazy. Maybe the granuloma cells in the lymph
node don't show up with toxo, but otherwise her symptoms could fit-- I just
read that it can cause anemia, fevers, and abdominal effusion,
It's called peritoneal effusion, and here are some links to places that
mention it:
_http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/2000/apr00_02.htm_
(http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/2000/apr00_02.htm)
here is another link listing abdominal effusion:
_http://www.missionmedvet.com/encyclopedia/toxoplasmosis.htm_
(http://www.missionmedvet.com/encyclopedia/toxoplasmosis.htm)
Yes! I got a call from Carrington yesterday that they were shipping it out
to their distributers yesterday and today. So you should be able to get it.
Main place that sells it to distributers is VPL (veterinary products laborat
ories, I think). If you have trouble finding it, let me know.
I would definitely start her on immuno-regulin and sub-cutaneous fluids
(your vet can show you how). People have had success with acemanan as well. The
one thing is that sometimes positive cats get things like lymphoma (which would
need chemo and/or steroids) or FIP (not curable but
Lucy has it with other symptoms, and either has FIP or toxoplasmosis or
something like that. Without looking at the fluid there is no way for them to
say
it is definitely FIP, and if it is FIP she needs steroids more than
antibiotics to control the symptoms. I would get her to a bigger
Ok-- got the info you need-- You should email Karla Moore, who handles all
international inquiries on VPL products: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) .
Michelle
Her blood levels do not have those values, but the internist says that she
has had tissue samples biopsy positive for fip without those blood values
before.
She seems worse again today. I came home to find her very hot-- she was on a
heating pad that gray had up too high, but she is out
Steroids are most helpful with lymphoma, much less so with other forms of
cancer. When an animal has another form of cancer, dexamethasone may make them
feel a little better because dex generally increases feelings of physical and
psychological well-being and reduces pain. But it actually
oh-- I did not see this post. Yes, the steroids help with lymphoma.
But lymphoma often responds very well to chemotherapy. Where is the mass,
and is Rompi felv+? Some cats go into permanent remission or remission lasting
for years with chemo. Depending on the kind of lymphoma (small
My order of feline interferon from Abbey Vet should be in on Monday.
However, Lucy is due for another dose tomorrow, and her dose yesterday was not
the
full dose. Moreover, Hideyo's shipment is very late, making me worried mine
will be as well, and in addition to that my credit card company
If it has been frozen it should be fine. Mine was reconstituted, thawed, and
in the fridge. Do you think it is ok to use it? Hideyo thinks it is, but
when I got it from the vet in MA he told me that it was only good for 3 months
in the fridge and for 24 hours out of the fridge. Not sure
Good idea. Thanks. I called and they said that once reconstituted and in the
fridge, it is good for 90 days and after that starts losing its strength but
does not become toxic. I guess I will give her some tomorrow in lieu of the
feline interferon, though it will hardly be expected to do
Well, it might be duplicative, but it would be great if you would do it in
case my shipment is as late as yours was. If you could, you might be able to
ups or fed ex it tomorrow to get here monday. I can put it on my credit card.
I might get it the same day as my order from England, but
Lucy seems more comfortable and happy, but also much more tired. She has
hardly moved all day-- just once or twice she went into the other room to use
the litter box, then got right back up on the futon couch. At one point she
climbed onto the other couch a few feet away to lay next to me,
I use aol and not yahoo but do not have a problem using the yahoo system.
Go to the lymphoma group home page and look at the bottom for the list owner's
email address and email her to ask what to do.
Michelle
In a message dated 1/27/2007 3:33:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL
Well, I took Lucy to the local vet for a PCV check today because she has
been so lethargic that I was sure it was under 10 and I would need to decide on
a transfusion over the weekend. But it was 15! I was very glad about that. She
is still super-lethargic, though, although she has more
It's not that she has fluid, it's the amount. At this point it is extremely
visible to the naked eye-- it looks like she swallowed a small basketball. It
is the way fip bellies look. All i have read about fluid with toxo says
that sometimes some can be detected by x-ray.. Nowhere did it
Did your vet suggest denosyl for red blood cell production? I read the info
at the link you sent, and it does not mention using it for this.
In a message dated 1/27/2007 1:13:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No need to apologize for anything, I imagine that
Yes, they said they will give her lasix if/when the fluid makes her
uncomfortable. I think she is breathing a little funny, but the vet did not
think so
much. The problem with lasix is that it leaches nutrients she needs and also
risks damage to the kidneys. At some point she will
The vets are still all stumped by her case but think it is wet fip. I have
been researching feverishly and she is on a lot of meds and is eating, but
otherwise seems to be going downhill. Someone on an fip list serve emailed me
about a cat who had all the same symptoms plus additional
I know. And we are treating for toxo, which does not really seem to be
working so far. Next step is probably to treat for small cell lymphoma and fip
inflammation at the same time with leukeran. But that suppresses the bone
marrow
and wbc, so my vets do not want to put her on it until we
I can't attach a picture to a post, but will mail you one offline. If anyone
else wants me to do that, please let me know.
Thanks,
Michelle
In a message dated 1/28/2007 3:34:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Michelle, I will be praying for Lucy - what does she
I just saw this email. It was me. I give it to Patches, who chews in the
same places otherwise. but we are pretty sure it is anxiety with her, not
allergies. How is it working?
Michelle
In a message dated 1/19/2007 12:43:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I have
Thanks, Kerry. I am already giving Lucy all that you mention other than the
chemo and coq10, but maybe I will get some Until yesterday she was on 10
mg/day of pred but I upped her yesterday to 12.5. I am all for more steroids
if
this is not something infectious. my local vet wants to wait
one more question-- how long did it take the epogen to kick in for Bandy?
thanks,
michelle
I now have the 10 mu vial rather than the 5 mu vial. Does this mean I give
half the dose, since it is still only 1 ml in the vial, i.e. do I give .4 ml
instead of .8?
Thanks,
Michelle
yes, totally different, though I can't tell you how. the stuff in the store
is topical and meant to treat the skin, I think, while this is meant to
affect the cat internally and is just applied to the ears where the blood
vessels
absorb it. It is a much thinner cream, and the pharmacy
Wait, though-- do you mean the opposite, give her .4 from the 10 mu bottle?
(you said .8)
She actually weighs 9.5 pounds now because of the fluid. Do you think I
should increase the dosage?
In a message dated 1/29/2007 12:28:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
ok good, thanks! My vet's is closed today for a funeral, plus he has no idea
about anything having to do with this drug.
thanks again,
michelle
In a message dated 1/29/2007 11:04:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hideyo and I discussed this when they switched
Thank you!
I had an FIP vet write back to me (Dr. Pederson at UC Davis) that it is
probably FIP and he thinks it's a million to one chance that it is toxo and
that
none of the meds including feline interferon will help. Of course, he also
said that almost all cats infected with FeLV die
Dr. Addie says on her website that she does not respond to individual
questions. Have you gotten her to respond?
In a message dated 1/29/2007 1:46:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why don’t you ask Dr. Addie, Michelle – I don’t think it’s Toxo either –
but it
Dr. Pederson said that he knows that in a small percentage of cases the
fluid is clear. The internist also said that. If Dr. Addie has not seen it,
that
does not necessarily invalidate them saying that they have.
In a message dated 1/29/2007 1:56:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL
The main reason they think FIP, actually, is the lymph node aspirate
cytology-- it showed granulamatous inflamation in a mesenteric lymph node.
This is
apparently indicative of FIP. It can also be indicative of a few other
inflammatory and infectious diseases, but apparently is most
She was very active last night-- went into living room, explored under the
couch, climbed to the top of the cat tree, and purred a lot. I had increased
her pred from 10 to 12.5 mg/day the night before. Her appetite is increased as
well. But she is super lethargic again today, though still
No titers, and I don't want to take that much blood at this point, with pcv
of 15.
When your cats were not eating, were they on pred? Pred increases appetite,
sometimes by a lot. I think that the reason she is eating is that she is on
this much pred.
Michelle
In a message dated
It's hard to answer that, because she has been on some amount of pred for
almost a year. She was down to 1.25 mg every other day in late December, and
her appetite declined. I upped her to 2.5 mg/day and her appetite went back to
normal. When she got sick with fevers on January 16, she
Dr. Pederson's second reply...
Michelle
---BeginMessage---
Dear Ms. Lerner: Yes, there are some strains of FeLV that are not as
pathogenic, and cats will live a lot longer. However, there are strains
that are much more pathogenic. Therefore, the figures I gave you are an
average, but the
Lucy had bad symptoms for several days before starting.
In a message dated 1/29/2007 3:31:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I actually have seen FOI worked on kitties with pre-stage of FIP – I think
that the trick is you have to use it at a very early stage—I also
I'm going to ask the local vet tomorrow. I am afraid he will say he has
never done it and I should go to Red bank, which is so far away and stresses
her
so much. I know they will do it there. The problem with draining is that it
usually comes right back. But some people say it takes a few
No, no titer was run and now I don't want to take that much blood from her
because she is so anemic.
Michelle
In a message dated 1/29/2007 9:02:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Did they run a Corona titer on Lucy? Was it high?
Phaewryn
Yes, that's right.
Michelle
In a message dated 1/29/2007 10:13:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
They did aspirate fluid, though, right? And it was definitely in the abdomen
and NOT in the chest cavity, right? Didn't you say it was clear, and not
straw colored
Since it would not be conclusive, and since I am sure she has been exposed
to corona virus since I adopted her from a shelter, I don't want to remove the
amount of blood necessary to test her, since she is so anemic.
In a message dated 1/30/2007 3:49:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL
She just laid around all day, very lethargic. When I woke up at 2:30 she was
walking around the room looking at food bowls, so I fed her baby food and
she ate almost a jar. She then purred a lot when I pet and kissed her for a
while, and after I pilled her she washed herself. I just upped
I read a summary of the article, but if you have the article in full I would
love to read it. Thanks,
In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:12:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I know it’s scary to see it – but she must not be in pain, just
uncomfortable –
My first
I am taking her in half an hour. I am really nervous about it. The vet
agreed to do the shot of 1/2 cc dexamethasone into the abdominal cavity after
draining, which apparently sometimes helps slow the refill time. I think she
is
even more anemic than on sat when her pcv was 15-- the parts
Well, Lucy screamed while they were feeling around her belly trying to find
the place to put the needle in, but while they drained she just laid in my
arms and purred. The fluid, which I was told was clear and thin on January 16
and 17 when samples were taken, looked pale yellow to me and
Paolo,
On your email provider, can you select a second screen name? I can, on
aol, if I want. If you can, you could basically create a different email
address (different screen [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
provider). and then you
should not have trouble setting up a
With dry fip, it is organ failure and/or anemia. My Buddy died naturally
from what probably was dry fip. His pcv was 6 the last time it was measured, a
couple of days before. The vet said he should not have been able to stand.
But he was on the dex/depo combo shots, and he was literally
yes, you are probably right. It is possible to keep draining it, but how
many times do you do that? as long as they are still eating? I don't know. But
you probably are right.
Michelle
In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:27:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As I
Do you know what actually killed them in the end? was it not eating, or
breathing difficulty, or anemia, or something else?
I am just trying to prepare myself.
thanks,
Michelle
In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:16:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
i know a lot of
Hideyo, all of yours had dry fip, though, right? Or did one have wet fip?
In a message dated 1/30/2007 4:51:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Actually, with all of my 6 kitties who died of FIP, they all passed away
naturally except one, Olive who developed severe
Hideyo, I am not going to do anything to her right now. I hardly ever
euthanize at all, much less while someone is eating. Most of my animals have
died
at home on their own. I just do not want her to suffer too much in the end,
which is why I asked the vet. I think my cat Buddy went
Lucy has mostly, I think, not had bad fevers since starting on 10 mg/day of
pred plus clindamycin Saturday before last. Occasionally she has felt warm,
though, like she does now, and I think has a low grade fever. When at the
vet on Sat she felt warm like this and her temp was 104.1. She
Actually, she now feels hot, not warm. I have two ice packs against her and
she actually climbed on top of a third on her own. If it is not down in 15
minutes I will give her fluids.
What I don't understand is why she got another high fever all of a sudden,
after so long. She got more
cats handle steroids better than humans and dogs do. and when they are
terminal it can be the only thing that makes them feel better.
And dexamethasone always seemed to bring Kerry's Bandy's fevers right down.
Michelle
In a message dated 1/30/2007 11:42:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Lynette,
Right now I am hoping and praying, probably without reason, that Lucy has
toxo rather than fip. So I have done A LOT of reading on toxo. Clindamycin
is the treatment of choice and it usually takes 3 weeks for significant
improvement, though some improvement should be seen
Titers for toxo do not necessarily tell you if a cat has toxo, but there are
two that can help: IGM titer and IGG titer. Apparently the ratio between the
two can strongly indicate toxo. Regardless of whether you do these tests,
though, or their results I would start on clindamycin
so far, knock on wood, she is still eating, on the pred. She will only eat
baby food, but I add stuff to it. She eats between 3 and 4 jars a day, which
should be enough calories. I think she ate less today than yesterday, but I
just ran out and she licked the last of it clean, so can't be
Patti,
If he is doing so much better, I think it is likely that he has toxo and
not fip. It can be very hard to tell fip from toxo-- toxo can cause pretty
much all the symptoms and lab work of fip. but it can be cured with
clindamycin, and they are supposed to start feeling better
It seemed to help so much last time.
Yesterday morning she had such a spike in energy from getting extra steroids
the day before-- climbing a cat tree, going outside, walking around,
meowing, coming upstairs. But then she got feverish and was out of it for a
while.
Since last night, and
The lab wouldn't do it, just did total protein and globulin, but my vet said
he could calculate it from that since protein is mostly albumin plus
globulin, and he got .555.
The cytology report called the fluid straw colored and cloudy. Total protein
4.2, total wbc .88 thousand, specific
I got Dr. Ishida's article and read it. Lucy's fluid cytology fits every one
of the criteria he used for determining fip effusion. The only thing she
does not have (or didn't on 1/17 when bloodwork was done, anyway) that he used
for diagnosis criteria is high protein and globulin levels in
yes, I got it. Was that one of Dr. ishida's patients?
I wrote to Dr. ishida asking him what he has seen in terms of results from
VO for FIP since the 2003 article. He did not write back. You said that you
talked to him-- did he tell you this? Did he tell you anything that might give
me
Hideyo, since it seems like fip, I am not sure what to do to keep her
comfortable. I am tempted to give her steroid shots. However, if there is a
chance
the feline interferon and epogen could actually help, maybe more steroids
would not be the best thing. Have you read or heard about any
she has fip, which no one has said acemannan helps with, and it has to be
given in the stomach, which means taking her to the vet, so no. I thought about
it initially before we knew what was going on with her.
In a message dated 2/1/2007 4:51:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL
Beth, how long did Ally live after diagnosis? Did you treat her with
anything that seemed to help make her more comfortable?
thanks,
Michelle
In a message dated 1/20/2007 11:11:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Michelle,
I am sorry you haven't had any good
So through yesterday Lucy continued to purr and eat and occasionally slowly
walk to the litterbox or another room. She is very fatigued, probably from her
anemia. Hideyo had said that giving the feline interferon every day seemed
to help Dharma feel better, so I gave Lucy the feline
coincidence or not, she also seems to be eating less since I gave her the
dex. Perhaps because of the congestion.
Michelle
no, I have been very attentive to her temperature since this whole thing
started a few weeks ago, and she definitely has not been getting fevers in the
past week at least except after getting dex. I specifically waited days between
dex shots to monitor this, and she did not get feverish at
but it's not that low grade. It's not that I know she is feverish because I
take her temp. Hear ears get hot and she gets really out of it and does not
want to be touched or to move. I would have noticed this for sure.
In a message dated 2/2/2007 10:40:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
that's great! he's actually negative on the corona titer and on the toxo
titer??
if so, I would recommend IV shots of immuno-regulin. That really helped my
cats get over tough URI's, and has worked for other cats on the list as well.
Michelle
In a message dated 2/2/2007 11:21:18 A.M.
I don't think I am going to do the dex again. She has been eating about 3-4
jars of baby food a day, and ate about 3 yesterday. But she has hardly eaten
since I gave her the dex. I think today she has eaten at most 1/5 of a jar
of baby food and a couple of licks of a/d, and it is almost
.5 cc. It is not giving her so much energy-- she is still just laying in
the cat tree, and not eating. If I am going to give her less dex, I think I
should just go back to the pred.
I am really scared that she has now stopped eating for good. she ate 3 jars
of baby food yesterday before
The last dex shot actually made her eat MORE the next morning, despite the
congestion, not less.
Since I wrote she ate a little more baby food. But, again, no more than 1/5
of a jar and probably not even that much.
In a message dated 2/2/2007 12:13:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
prednisolone.
In a message dated 2/2/2007 1:11:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Michelle - when you say pred - do you mean predisone or predisolone? I
would recommend that you use predisolone
I can't do that. Once they have been on steroids long-term, you can't just
stop it. It causes adrenal and circulatory problems and would make her feel way
worse.
In a message dated 2/2/2007 6:59:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If I were you, I might just
oh my, my vet. Well, my vet probably really wishes I would stop asking him
these questions every day. My vet thinks there is no way to figure out what is
happening, and that I should just decide on something and he will give me the
meds. He is very accommodating, but not very decisive. He
Thank you. I have heard of it, and have read up on it. It seems to help
sometimes with FIP. However, it's a blood thinner, and she is really anemic
right
now, so I would be afraid to try it. Also, I think all the meds I have given
her have made her not want to eat much, so I don't think I
Well, as of last night she will not eat at all. She was hardly eating since
I gave her the dex shot the night before, I think because it unmasked her
URI and her nose got congested. I have a vicks vaporizer on for that, used
nose drops, gave lysine, etc. but it is not clearing up this
She ate a tiny bit (like maybe 10 licks). So finally I syringe fed her 2/3
of a jar of baby food, with gray petting her as I did. She did not seem to hate
it that much, and perhaps less than having food shoved in front of her face
every 30 minutes, and afterwards she washed her face and then
Yesterday at one point Lucy howled and started open mouth breathing and
stumbled to the garage door where there is cold air. I assumed (and still
think)
it was her anemia getting so bad she was not getting enough oxygen. I almost
reached for valium to knock her out for euthanasia, but
actually, I think I meant to ask if I am horrible if I don't euthanise her,
not if I do. She is clearly suffering to some extent. Every once in a while
she seems to need air, meows and breathes with her mouth open, and if we open
a door or window to the cold air she settles down. I gave
I have backed off the meds. Just steroid shot once a day, and I gave her a
metronidazole and her clindamycin once yesterday instead of twice, in case the
metronidazole helps her diarrhea or the clindamycin helps the congestion. And
nose drops every other day. That's all, though.
I dont
I know that about purring. But she only purrs when we pet her, not
otherwise, so I do think that means she likes us petting her.
In a message dated 2/4/2007 5:07:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
writes:
I just don't know Michelle were she my cat, I would have euth'd
I do not often get offended by this list, and I know I am in a bad state to
begin with. But I really take offense at this thing people always say, which
at least one of you has said to me in my questioning what to do about
euthanasia, that I need to ask if I am keeping her here for me or for
Apropos to what I just wrote is an email I got from my old chiropractor, a
healer, who I asked the same question of.
Michelle
---BeginMessage---
Hi MIchelle,
I am so sorry to hear about your sadness.
The question you are asking, I am afraid, isn't an easy one to answer. I will
do my
Since I last wrote, Lucy got up, climbed all 14 stairs to the upstairs, ate
half a jar of baby food and a couple pieces of dry food, curled up on a cat
bed, and is purring away as Gray pets her. When Gray poured the dry food for
Patches, Lucy literally got up and ran over to it, trying to
Hi, all. I used to belong to this group a few years ago when my positives were
still alive-- we lost Patches, the last of them, last September at the age of 8
or 9.
?I am writing to beg your help finding a home for an incredible positive cat
who is currently living outside. I started a
Hi, everyone. I used to be active on this list when I had my positives, the
last of whom passed away last year.
I now run a Trap-Neuter-Return group, and we adopt out friendly adults and
kittens. We have an extraordinarily friendly, lovey, and personable Maine Coon
cat (the vet says he's
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