Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Janine, 1st thank you for helping all these cats and kittens in such a responsible manner. Here is the link to a chart I have found very helpful in explaining testing for FeLV http://www.felineleukemia.org/felvhlth.html As I understand it the IFA test requires the virus to be in the kittens bone marrow which takes time. Sometimes positive test are incorrect perhaps due to the handling of the test. Timing is very important. If left too long before reading they will give a positive result for a negative cat. Hope Bella tests negative next time Sharyl From: janine paton To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, October 1, 2012 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Hello, I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin. Trying to find testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that had 30 kittens last year and none of them tested pos. We just took 9 kittens within a few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered. There were a few newcomers - mostly toms. All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent out to lab. Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each other's kittens. A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I understand is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this! My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that doesn't mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos. My thinking is that more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not be positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out the ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. Looking for guidance - Thank you, Janine - Original Message From: "dlg...@windstream.net" To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Mon, October 1, 2012 6:15:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to hoome. Only Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing "they are only animals" as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals arn't they? Natalie wrote: > I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this > is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and > cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a > cat is a deer? Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on > small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter, > started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his > farm.. > > Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all! > > I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in > hell ASPA! > > Natalie > > > > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > Friends, > > We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either > humans or animals. Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to > end lives. Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering > of a companion that is truly suffering (pet). I am a Christian and believe > in heaven and hell and Karma. So, until we all die, that person who puts > their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin > with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to > life. They will have to be judged and only the Lord will have that talk > with them at the end of their life. I live in Florida and just heard about > a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back! They > are trying to find the person who did it. Trust me, I am sure if it was a > little child or adult, the FBI would be involved. But because it was a > cat, "they are doing their best". At the end of every day, everything we > do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends. We can also > voice our opinion to the government to change laws. God Bless America. > Let's be positive here, we are in America and have the opportunity to > change anything in our power as a group. Look in the Middle East, killing > everyda
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
It might not hurt to wait a short time to be sure and most definitly I would alert prospective adopters what to look for. If they find a "thinking" vet they should not have too much of a problem. They just need to know euthansia is NOT the only answer. My positive girls and healthy, happy and my negatives are also fine. They just get the FELV vaccination each year since I mix my pride of 7. janine paton wrote: > Hello, > > I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin. Trying to find > testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. > > I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that had > 30 > kittens last year and none of them tested pos. We just took 9 kittens within > a > few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered. There were a > few > newcomers - mostly toms. > > All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent out > to > lab. Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each > other's kittens. > > A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I > understand > is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this! > > My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that > doesn't > mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos. My thinking is > that > more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not > be > positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? > > Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out > the > ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. > > Looking for guidance - > > Thank you, > Janine > > > > > - Original Message ---- > From: "dlg...@windstream.net" > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Sent: Mon, October 1, 2012 6:15:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to hoome. Only > Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing "they are only > animals" as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from > monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals > arn't > they? > > > Natalie wrote: > > I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this > > is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and > > cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a > > cat is a deer? Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on > > small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter, > > started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his > > farm.. > > > > Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all! > > > > I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in > > hell ASPA! > > > > Natalie > > > > > > > > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner > > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > > > Friends, > > > > We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either > > humans or animals. Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to > > end lives. Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering > > of a companion that is truly suffering (pet). I am a Christian and believe > > in heaven and hell and Karma. So, until we all die, that person who puts > > their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin > > with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to > > life. They will have to be judged and only the Lord will have that talk > > with them at the end of their life. I live in Florida and just heard about > > a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back! They > > are trying to find the person who did it. Trust me, I am sure if it was a > > little child or adult, the FBI would be involved. But because it was a > > cat, "they are doing their best". At the end of every day, everything we > > do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends. We can also > > voice our opinion to the government to change laws. God Bless America. > > Let's be posit
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Hello, I joined this list years ago, and have now needed to rejoin. Trying to find testing protocol for FeLV and an explanation for it. I am with a rescue grp and we have just started trapping in a colony that had 30 kittens last year and none of them tested pos. We just took 9 kittens within a few days, and are close to having all of the adults neutered. There were a few newcomers - mostly toms. All kittens tested neg until Bella, who tested a weak pos with Elysa sent out to lab. Moms were all mixed up in this colony, everyone taking care of each other's kittens. A 2nd vet did IFA test a few days after Bella's pos results, which I understand is too soon, but having a hard time trying to explain this! My concern is that even if all the kittens tested neg except Bella, that doesn't mean in a few weeks the same kittens would not retest pos. My thinking is that more than one may have been exposed recently enough that the test might not be positive last wk, but may be tomorrow? Another vet thinks I am over thinking/reacting and we should just adopt out the ones that have tested neg right around the same time Bella tested positive. Looking for guidance - Thank you, Janine - Original Message From: "dlg...@windstream.net" To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Mon, October 1, 2012 6:15:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to hoome. Only Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing "they are only animals" as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals arn't they? Natalie wrote: > I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this > is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and > cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a > cat is a deer? Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on > small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter, > started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his > farm.. > > Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all! > > I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in > hell ASPA! > > Natalie > > > > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > Friends, > > We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either > humans or animals. Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to > end lives. Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering > of a companion that is truly suffering (pet). I am a Christian and believe > in heaven and hell and Karma. So, until we all die, that person who puts > their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin > with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to > life. They will have to be judged and only the Lord will have that talk > with them at the end of their life. I live in Florida and just heard about > a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back! They > are trying to find the person who did it. Trust me, I am sure if it was a > little child or adult, the FBI would be involved. But because it was a > cat, "they are doing their best". At the end of every day, everything we > do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends. We can also > voice our opinion to the government to change laws. God Bless America. > Let's be positive here, we are in America and have the opportunity to > change anything in our power as a group. Look in the Middle East, killing > everyday! Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help > out where you can. however, you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up > for the healthy animals that they put to sleep. > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Bow hunting has started in my area and I keep my cats close to hoome. Only Harley goes down the road, so HE stays inside. I keep hearing "they are only animals" as the excuse. Well, since we are suspossed to be descended from monkeys, we are animals so why can't I shoot them. They are only animals arn't they? Natalie wrote: > I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this > is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and > cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a > cat is a deer? Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on > small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter, > started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his > farm.. > > Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all! > > I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in > hell ASPA! > > Natalie > > > > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > Friends, > > We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either > humans or animals. Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to > end lives. Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering > of a companion that is truly suffering (pet). I am a Christian and believe > in heaven and hell and Karma. So, until we all die, that person who puts > their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin > with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to > life. They will have to be judged and only the Lord will have that talk > with them at the end of their life. I live in Florida and just heard about > a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back! They > are trying to find the person who did it. Trust me, I am sure if it was a > little child or adult, the FBI would be involved. But because it was a > cat, "they are doing their best". At the end of every day, everything we > do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends. We can also > voice our opinion to the government to change laws. God Bless America. > Let's be positive here, we are in America and have the opportunity to > change anything in our power as a group. Look in the Middle East, killing > everyday! Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help > out where you can. however, you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up > for the healthy animals that they put to sleep. > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
I am so sorry to hear about the poor cat that was shot with an arrow - this is so typical this time of year when bowhunting begins for deer; dogs and cats are shot all the time.on purpose, because how could one think that a cat is a deer? Could also be some stupid neighborhood kid practicing on small animals! Ted Nugent, the creepy rock star macho moron bowhunter, started his 3-yr old kid practicing bowhunting on small barn animals on his farm.. Even when caught, these creeps get a mere slap on the wrist, if at all! I believe in karma, but it's not soon enough for me - I hope they rot in hell ASPA! Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Conner Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Friends, We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either humans or animals. Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to end lives. Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering of a companion that is truly suffering (pet). I am a Christian and believe in heaven and hell and Karma. So, until we all die, that person who puts their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to life. They will have to be judged and only the Lord will have that talk with them at the end of their life. I live in Florida and just heard about a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back! They are trying to find the person who did it. Trust me, I am sure if it was a little child or adult, the FBI would be involved. But because it was a cat, "they are doing their best". At the end of every day, everything we do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends. We can also voice our opinion to the government to change laws. God Bless America. Let's be positive here, we are in America and have the opportunity to change anything in our power as a group. Look in the Middle East, killing everyday! Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help out where you can. however, you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up for the healthy animals that they put to sleep. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Friends, We can only do our best everyday to help the victims without voices, either humans or animals. Kevorkian was arrested because it is against the law to end lives. Thanks goodness we can do what we can do, to end the suffering of a companion that is truly suffering (pet). I am a Christian and believe in heaven and hell and Karma. So, until we all die, that person who puts their pet down to travel the world or whatever, is a selfish person to begin with and I am sure it is not the first time that they were disrespectful to life. They will have to be judged and only the Lord will have that talk with them at the end of their life. I live in Florida and just heard about a cat in Riverview that was found (alive) with an arrow in its back! They are trying to find the person who did it. Trust me, I am sure if it was a little child or adult, the FBI would be involved. But because it was a cat, "they are doing their best". At the end of every day, everything we do a group has a major impact on saving our furry friends. We can also voice our opinion to the government to change laws. God Bless America. Let's be positive here, we are in America and have the opportunity to change anything in our power as a group. Look in the Middle East, killing everyday! Thank you to all you Vet techs that try to intervene and help out where you can... however, you are right.. it is up to the VET to stand up for the healthy animals that they put to sleep. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
I've watched the show a few times, and most of those cat owners are real idiots! It makes me so mad, that I can't watch. But, yes, the guy knows what he's doing! Natalie -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 8:57 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough These people worried about the cats scratching furniture, soiling carpets, etc. should watch "My Cat From Hell". After seeing a couple of shows, i came to the same conclusion, the cat isn't the problem, the PEOPLE are. This guy really knows cats. He has all 7 of mine pegged to the smallest detail. Followed his advise and it works, especialy the Clicker. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
These people worried about the cats scratching furniture, soiling carpets, etc. should watch "My Cat From Hell". After seeing a couple of shows, i came to the same conclusion, the cat isn't the problem, the PEOPLE are. This guy really knows cats. He has all 7 of mine pegged to the smallest detail. Followed his advise and it works, especialy the Clicker. Marcia wrote: > Wow Lee! I love u!!! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 25, 2012, at 9:43 PM, Lee Evans wrote: > > > The problem with euthanasia for pets is that most people will use it for > > their own convenience. I have seen this happen several times and it's > > really terrible but there is no crime in killing an animal. We do this > > every day to eat them, for sport, as trophies or just because we don't want > > them any more. They don't match the new sofa or they might scratch the new > > sofa. I have a cat rescued from the vet clinic when the woman I was > > sitting next to who had a lovely white male cat in a carrier told me she > > was having him euthanized because he was an outside cat and it was too much > > trouble to call him in at night. Another woman brought in her two older > > cats, lovely Maine Coon mixes, obviously still full of life to have them > > "put to sleep" because she and her husband were going on a world tour. And > > a third woman was getting married and her husband to be hated cats so off > > went her 8 year old Persian mix. Well, not exactly off. I adopted the > > white cat. I still have him. He tested FIV+ because the woman had not > > bothered to neuter him as a teen. He's in my little FIV+group, perfectly > > happy to be indoors. The world tour people left their cats at the vet > > clinic and one of the techs adopted them and the idiot who was marrying a > > cat hater never knew that her cat was adopted by one of the secretaries at > > the vet clinic. But these success stories happened because I was there and > > convinced the technician and the secretary that death was unfair to the > > cats and they agreed. > > > > Veterinary medicine is still for the benefit of the "owner". Animals are > > considered property rather than individuals with the right to having a > > caregiver and the right to their own lives. We choose not to see the > > suffering of a truly terminally ill companion animal because we don't want > > to feel the pain of the loss. We choose not to see how unethical it is to > > kill millions of cats and dogs because there are "too many" around or they > > are positive for some disease that they do not have at the present time and > > may never actually come down with or any number of other reasons we use to > > murder non-human animals. > > > > Everyone will eventually die. It's a bad plan but we had no say in it. > > However, the idea that we have to kill animals because they might die of > > this or that is not ethical. The idea that a human is so precious that we > > keep him or her alive way past reason is equally illogical and unethical. > > I don't have any answers so I try to use logic. I don't euthanize for > > convenience. I allow maximum care for my rescued cats, for my FeLv+ cats > > and my FIV+ cats. I watch to see if their lives have gone beyond the limit > > of being useful to them, not to me and then I accept the pain it will cause > > me and allow them to pass on. I don't tell myself fairy tales about where > > they go. I miss them and I accept the grief knowing that they are no > > longer in pain or distress. > > > > > > Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty > > neighbors too! > > > > > > From: MaiMaiPG > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:46 PM > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > > > With those beliefs, please check into a Do Not Resuscitate Order. LWs are > > great but stopping something once it is started is difficult. A DNR can > > help keep measures from being started. > > On Sep 25, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Lorrie wrote: > > > > > Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive > > > when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The > > > only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. > > > and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was > > > my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think &g
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
always did say i liked animals better than people. At least they are honest and you know what to expect from them. My vet doesn't get that upset about "putting to sleep" but he will insist on trying to find a loving home for them. That is how I got Annie and Bobby. He knows I am a sucker. Marcia wrote: > Yes people suck.a very good friend of mine (who I had in a pedestal) just put > her 8 year old perfectly healthy border collie put to sleep. I went to her > house to see what happened and she told me that they just didn't want anyone > to have to take care of her while they went here and there. I was shocked and > It left me with a really bad taste in my mouth. Honestly, I can't stop > thinking about it. What is WRONG with people??? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:37 PM, Natalie wrote: > > > People always bring perfectly healthy pets to my vet to “put to sleep”(he > > refuses), that, however is NOT euthanasia – many vets do it, many refuse. > > However, many people are so hung up on having their pets killed, that they > > won’t allow anyone to take them, and insist that the vet kill them. People > > suck, that’s all there is to it. My vet hates euthanasia, something must > > have happened to him, by law, he has to insert it, but his vet tech > > actually does it, while he runs out of the room, white as a sheet. I once > > had to euthanize our very old and sick dog and a cat with cancer, about to > > die. He just couldn’t take two at one time….I was doing better than he > > was. Natalie > > > > > > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:44 PM > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > > > The problem with euthanasia for pets is that most people will use it for > > their own convenience. I have seen this happen several times and it's > > really terrible but there is no crime in killing an animal. We do this > > every day to eat them, for sport, as trophies or just because we don't want > > them any more. They don't match the new sofa or they might scratch the new > > sofa. I have a cat rescued from the vet clinic when the woman I was > > sitting next to who had a lovely white male cat in a carrier told me she > > was having him euthanized because he was an outside cat and it was too much > > trouble to call him in at night. Another woman brought in her two older > > cats, lovely Maine Coon mixes, obviously still full of life to have them > > "put to sleep" because she and her husband were going on a world tour. And > > a third woman was getting married and her husband to be hated cats so off > > went her 8 year old Persian mix. Well, not exactly off. I adopted the > > white cat. I still have him. He tested FIV+ because the woman had not > > bothered to neuter him as a teen. He's in my little FIV+group, perfectly > > happy to be indoors. The world tour people left their cats at the vet > > clinic and one of the techs adopted them and the idiot who was marrying a > > cat hater never knew that her cat was adopted by one of the secretaries at > > the vet clinic. But these success stories happened because I was there and > > convinced the technician and the secretary that death was unfair to the > > cats and they agreed. > > > > Veterinary medicine is still for the benefit of the "owner". Animals are > > considered property rather than individuals with the right to having a > > caregiver and the right to their own lives. We choose not to see the > > suffering of a truly terminally ill companion animal because we don't want > > to feel the pain of the loss. We choose not to see how unethical it is to > > kill millions of cats and dogs because there are "too many" around or they > > are positive for some disease that they do not have at the present time and > > may never actually come down with or any number of other reasons we use to > > murder non-human animals. > > > > Everyone will eventually die. It's a bad plan but we had no say in it. > > However, the idea that we have to kill animals because they might die of > > this or that is not ethical. The idea that a human is so precious that we > > keep him or her alive way past reason is equally illogical and unethical. > > I don't have any answers so I try to use logic. I don't euthanize for > > convenience.
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Yes people suck.a very good friend of mine (who I had in a pedestal) just put her 8 year old perfectly healthy border collie put to sleep. I went to her house to see what happened and she told me that they just didn't want anyone to have to take care of her while they went here and there. I was shocked and It left me with a really bad taste in my mouth. Honestly, I can't stop thinking about it. What is WRONG with people??? Sent from my iPhone On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:37 PM, Natalie wrote: > People always bring perfectly healthy pets to my vet to “put to sleep”(he > refuses), that, however is NOT euthanasia – many vets do it, many refuse. > However, many people are so hung up on having their pets killed, that they > won’t allow anyone to take them, and insist that the vet kill them. People > suck, that’s all there is to it. My vet hates euthanasia, something must have > happened to him, by law, he has to insert it, but his vet tech actually does > it, while he runs out of the room, white as a sheet. I once had to euthanize > our very old and sick dog and a cat with cancer, about to die. He just > couldn’t take two at one time….I was doing better than he was. Natalie > > > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:44 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > The problem with euthanasia for pets is that most people will use it for > their own convenience. I have seen this happen several times and it's really > terrible but there is no crime in killing an animal. We do this every day to > eat them, for sport, as trophies or just because we don't want them any more. > They don't match the new sofa or they might scratch the new sofa. I have a > cat rescued from the vet clinic when the woman I was sitting next to who had > a lovely white male cat in a carrier told me she was having him euthanized > because he was an outside cat and it was too much trouble to call him in at > night. Another woman brought in her two older cats, lovely Maine Coon mixes, > obviously still full of life to have them "put to sleep" because she and her > husband were going on a world tour. And a third woman was getting married > and her husband to be hated cats so off went her 8 year old Persian mix. > Well, not exactly off. I adopted the white cat. I still have him. He > tested FIV+ because the woman had not bothered to neuter him as a teen. He's > in my little FIV+group, perfectly happy to be indoors. The world tour people > left their cats at the vet clinic and one of the techs adopted them and the > idiot who was marrying a cat hater never knew that her cat was adopted by one > of the secretaries at the vet clinic. But these success stories happened > because I was there and convinced the technician and the secretary that death > was unfair to the cats and they agreed. > > Veterinary medicine is still for the benefit of the "owner". Animals are > considered property rather than individuals with the right to having a > caregiver and the right to their own lives. We choose not to see the > suffering of a truly terminally ill companion animal because we don't want to > feel the pain of the loss. We choose not to see how unethical it is to kill > millions of cats and dogs because there are "too many" around or they are > positive for some disease that they do not have at the present time and may > never actually come down with or any number of other reasons we use to murder > non-human animals. > > Everyone will eventually die. It's a bad plan but we had no say in it. > However, the idea that we have to kill animals because they might die of this > or that is not ethical. The idea that a human is so precious that we keep > him or her alive way past reason is equally illogical and unethical. I don't > have any answers so I try to use logic. I don't euthanize for convenience. > I allow maximum care for my rescued cats, for my FeLv+ cats and my FIV+ cats. > I watch to see if their lives have gone beyond the limit of being useful to > them, not to me and then I accept the pain it will cause me and allow them to > pass on. I don't tell myself fairy tales about where they go. I miss them > and I accept the grief knowing that they are no longer in pain or distress. > > > Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty > neighbors too! > > > From: MaiMaiPG > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Fe
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
People always bring perfectly healthy pets to my vet to "put to sleep"(he refuses), that, however is NOT euthanasia - many vets do it, many refuse. However, many people are so hung up on having their pets killed, that they won't allow anyone to take them, and insist that the vet kill them. People suck, that's all there is to it. My vet hates euthanasia, something must have happened to him, by law, he has to insert it, but his vet tech actually does it, while he runs out of the room, white as a sheet. I once had to euthanize our very old and sick dog and a cat with cancer, about to die. He just couldn't take two at one time..I was doing better than he was. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:44 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough The problem with euthanasia for pets is that most people will use it for their own convenience. I have seen this happen several times and it's really terrible but there is no crime in killing an animal. We do this every day to eat them, for sport, as trophies or just because we don't want them any more. They don't match the new sofa or they might scratch the new sofa. I have a cat rescued from the vet clinic when the woman I was sitting next to who had a lovely white male cat in a carrier told me she was having him euthanized because he was an outside cat and it was too much trouble to call him in at night. Another woman brought in her two older cats, lovely Maine Coon mixes, obviously still full of life to have them "put to sleep" because she and her husband were going on a world tour. And a third woman was getting married and her husband to be hated cats so off went her 8 year old Persian mix. Well, not exactly off. I adopted the white cat. I still have him. He tested FIV+ because the woman had not bothered to neuter him as a teen. He's in my little FIV+group, perfectly happy to be indoors. The world tour people left their cats at the vet clinic and one of the techs adopted them and the idiot who was marrying a cat hater never knew that her cat was adopted by one of the secretaries at the vet clinic. But these success stories happened because I was there and convinced the technician and the secretary that death was unfair to the cats and they agreed. Veterinary medicine is still for the benefit of the "owner". Animals are considered property rather than individuals with the right to having a caregiver and the right to their own lives. We choose not to see the suffering of a truly terminally ill companion animal because we don't want to feel the pain of the loss. We choose not to see how unethical it is to kill millions of cats and dogs because there are "too many" around or they are positive for some disease that they do not have at the present time and may never actually come down with or any number of other reasons we use to murder non-human animals. Everyone will eventually die. It's a bad plan but we had no say in it. However, the idea that we have to kill animals because they might die of this or that is not ethical. The idea that a human is so precious that we keep him or her alive way past reason is equally illogical and unethical. I don't have any answers so I try to use logic. I don't euthanize for convenience. I allow maximum care for my rescued cats, for my FeLv+ cats and my FIV+ cats. I watch to see if their lives have gone beyond the limit of being useful to them, not to me and then I accept the pain it will cause me and allow them to pass on. I don't tell myself fairy tales about where they go. I miss them and I accept the grief knowing that they are no longer in pain or distress. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: MaiMaiPG To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough With those beliefs, please check into a Do Not Resuscitate Order. LWs are great but stopping something once it is started is difficult. A DNR can help keep measures from being started. On Sep 25, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Lorrie wrote: > Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive > when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The > only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. > and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was > my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think > of not being able to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a > Living Will requesting NO heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but > sometimes they keep you alive anyway. > > Lorrie > > alive-
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Wow Lee! I love u!!! Sent from my iPhone On Sep 25, 2012, at 9:43 PM, Lee Evans wrote: > The problem with euthanasia for pets is that most people will use it for > their own convenience. I have seen this happen several times and it's really > terrible but there is no crime in killing an animal. We do this every day to > eat them, for sport, as trophies or just because we don't want them any more. > They don't match the new sofa or they might scratch the new sofa. I have a > cat rescued from the vet clinic when the woman I was sitting next to who had > a lovely white male cat in a carrier told me she was having him euthanized > because he was an outside cat and it was too much trouble to call him in at > night. Another woman brought in her two older cats, lovely Maine Coon mixes, > obviously still full of life to have them "put to sleep" because she and her > husband were going on a world tour. And a third woman was getting married > and her husband to be hated cats so off went her 8 year old Persian mix. > Well, not exactly off. I adopted the white cat. I still have him. He > tested FIV+ because the woman had not bothered to neuter him as a teen. He's > in my little FIV+group, perfectly happy to be indoors. The world tour people > left their cats at the vet clinic and one of the techs adopted them and the > idiot who was marrying a cat hater never knew that her cat was adopted by one > of the secretaries at the vet clinic. But these success stories happened > because I was there and convinced the technician and the secretary that death > was unfair to the cats and they agreed. > > Veterinary medicine is still for the benefit of the "owner". Animals are > considered property rather than individuals with the right to having a > caregiver and the right to their own lives. We choose not to see the > suffering of a truly terminally ill companion animal because we don't want to > feel the pain of the loss. We choose not to see how unethical it is to kill > millions of cats and dogs because there are "too many" around or they are > positive for some disease that they do not have at the present time and may > never actually come down with or any number of other reasons we use to murder > non-human animals. > > Everyone will eventually die. It's a bad plan but we had no say in it. > However, the idea that we have to kill animals because they might die of this > or that is not ethical. The idea that a human is so precious that we keep > him or her alive way past reason is equally illogical and unethical. I don't > have any answers so I try to use logic. I don't euthanize for convenience. > I allow maximum care for my rescued cats, for my FeLv+ cats and my FIV+ cats. > I watch to see if their lives have gone beyond the limit of being useful to > them, not to me and then I accept the pain it will cause me and allow them to > pass on. I don't tell myself fairy tales about where they go. I miss them > and I accept the grief knowing that they are no longer in pain or distress. > > > Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty > neighbors too! > > > From: MaiMaiPG > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > With those beliefs, please check into a Do Not Resuscitate Order. LWs are > great but stopping something once it is started is difficult. A DNR can help > keep measures from being started. > On Sep 25, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Lorrie wrote: > > > Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive > > when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The > > only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. > > and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was > > my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think > > of not being able to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a > > Living Will requesting NO heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but > > sometimes they keep you alive anyway. > > > > Lorrie > > > > alive-25, Edna Taylor wrote: > >> personally, I think we should do this for people too, end their > >> suffering. What quality of life does someone have who simply lays in > >> bed in a vegetative state? Who are we keeping that person alive for? > >> to what end? If it were me, and I had some life ending disease or > >> accident, I would want my husband to use what money we had, go out and > >> get as much booze and coke as he co
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
My 3 other siblings and I took care of my Mom for 3 weeks while she died at home. Her request(: hospice said no fluid, so she laid there with nothing all that time, struggling to breath, to swallow. Etc. I only cried one time during that 3 weeks, because I had a job to do that required quite a bit of mental strength and clarity. The day I broke down was when Timothy McVay was euthanized. I cried because my mother was suffering and that son of a bitch died effortlessly. People should have that choice and in some countries they do. But not here in the land of the free. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:17 PM, Natalie wrote: > There's a thin line between keeping someone alive on all kinds of tubes and > heroic measuresone has to really specify, and even then, they won't just > give you something.! My mother was at the hospital at the hospice area, > after a stroke, with no hope - and she had a living will. She was kept on > fluids and morphine, unitl she died. It would have been so much better to > have had euthanasia! Natalie > > > > -Original Message- > From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org > [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 3:52 PM > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough > > Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive when they > are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The only states that allow > doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. > and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was my hero. > I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think of not being able > to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a Living Will requesting NO > heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but sometimes they keep you alive anyway. > > Lorrie > > alive-25, Edna Taylor wrote: >> personally, I think we should do this for people too, end their >> suffering. What quality of life does someone have who simply lays in >> bed in a vegetative state? Who are we keeping that person alive for? >> to what end? If it were me, and I had some life ending disease or >> accident, I would want my husband to use what money we had, go out and >> get as much booze and coke as he could get and let me go out with a >> bang ;) But then again, that is just my opinion ;) > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
There's a thin line between keeping someone alive on all kinds of tubes and heroic measuresone has to really specify, and even then, they won't just give you something.! My mother was at the hospital at the hospice area, after a stroke, with no hope - and she had a living will. She was kept on fluids and morphine, unitl she died. It would have been so much better to have had euthanasia! Natalie -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 3:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think of not being able to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a Living Will requesting NO heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but sometimes they keep you alive anyway. Lorrie alive-25, Edna Taylor wrote: >personally, I think we should do this for people too, end their >suffering. What quality of life does someone have who simply lays in >bed in a vegetative state? Who are we keeping that person alive for? >to what end? If it were me, and I had some life ending disease or >accident, I would want my husband to use what money we had, go out and >get as much booze and coke as he could get and let me go out with a >bang ;) But then again, that is just my opinion ;) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
The problem with euthanasia for pets is that most people will use it for their own convenience. I have seen this happen several times and it's really terrible but there is no crime in killing an animal. We do this every day to eat them, for sport, as trophies or just because we don't want them any more. They don't match the new sofa or they might scratch the new sofa. I have a cat rescued from the vet clinic when the woman I was sitting next to who had a lovely white male cat in a carrier told me she was having him euthanized because he was an outside cat and it was too much trouble to call him in at night. Another woman brought in her two older cats, lovely Maine Coon mixes, obviously still full of life to have them "put to sleep" because she and her husband were going on a world tour. And a third woman was getting married and her husband to be hated cats so off went her 8 year old Persian mix. Well, not exactly off. I adopted the white cat. I still have him. He tested FIV+ because the woman had not bothered to neuter him as a teen. He's in my little FIV+group, perfectly happy to be indoors. The world tour people left their cats at the vet clinic and one of the techs adopted them and the idiot who was marrying a cat hater never knew that her cat was adopted by one of the secretaries at the vet clinic. But these success stories happened because I was there and convinced the technician and the secretary that death was unfair to the cats and they agreed. Veterinary medicine is still for the benefit of the "owner". Animals are considered property rather than individuals with the right to having a caregiver and the right to their own lives. We choose not to see the suffering of a truly terminally ill companion animal because we don't want to feel the pain of the loss. We choose not to see how unethical it is to kill millions of cats and dogs because there are "too many" around or they are positive for some disease that they do not have at the present time and may never actually come down with or any number of other reasons we use to murder non-human animals. Everyone will eventually die. It's a bad plan but we had no say in it. However, the idea that we have to kill animals because they might die of this or that is not ethical. The idea that a human is so precious that we keep him or her alive way past reason is equally illogical and unethical. I don't have any answers so I try to use logic. I don't euthanize for convenience. I allow maximum care for my rescued cats, for my FeLv+ cats and my FIV+ cats. I watch to see if their lives have gone beyond the limit of being useful to them, not to me and then I accept the pain it will cause me and allow them to pass on. I don't tell myself fairy tales about where they go. I miss them and I accept the grief knowing that they are no longer in pain or distress. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: MaiMaiPG To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough With those beliefs, please check into a Do Not Resuscitate Order. LWs are great but stopping something once it is started is difficult. A DNR can help keep measures from being started. On Sep 25, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Lorrie wrote: > Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive > when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The > only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. > and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was > my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think > of not being able to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a > Living Will requesting NO heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but > sometimes they keep you alive anyway. > > Lorrie > > alive-25, Edna Taylor wrote: >> personally, I think we should do this for people too, end their >> suffering. What quality of life does someone have who simply lays in >> bed in a vegetative state? Who are we keeping that person alive for? >> to what end? If it were me, and I had some life ending disease or >> accident, I would want my husband to use what money we had, go out and >> get as much booze and coke as he could get and let me go out with a >> bang ;) But then again, that is just my opinion ;) > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
With those beliefs, please check into a Do Not Resuscitate Order. LWs are great but stopping something once it is started is difficult. A DNR can help keep measures from being started. On Sep 25, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Lorrie wrote: Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think of not being able to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a Living Will requesting NO heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but sometimes they keep you alive anyway. Lorrie alive-25, Edna Taylor wrote: personally, I think we should do this for people too, end their suffering. What quality of life does someone have who simply lays in bed in a vegetative state? Who are we keeping that person alive for? to what end? If it were me, and I had some life ending disease or accident, I would want my husband to use what money we had, go out and get as much booze and coke as he could get and let me go out with a bang ;) But then again, that is just my opinion ;) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Deciding-when-a-pet-has-suffered-enough
Absolutely Edna. It is positively cruel to keep people alive when they are suffering and there is no recovery in sight. The only states that allow doctor assisted suicide are Oregon, Wash. and Montana. It can't happen in my state of WV. Dr. Kevorkian was my hero. I'll be 80 my next birthday and it terrifies me to think of not being able to end my life when I'm ready. I've signed a Living Will requesting NO heroic measures, if I'm terminal, but sometimes they keep you alive anyway. Lorrie alive-25, Edna Taylor wrote: >personally, I think we should do this for people too, end their >suffering. What quality of life does someone have who simply lays in >bed in a vegetative state? Who are we keeping that person alive for? >to what end? If it were me, and I had some life ending disease or >accident, I would want my husband to use what money we had, go out and >get as much booze and coke as he could get and let me go out with a >bang ;) But then again, that is just my opinion ;) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
