Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
to Amy - i took Neupogen myself (had perpherial T Cell Lymphoma)when took first chemo. it brought my white count back up. i was on 4 chemicals including prednisone and my white count dipped way low. then when my red count dropped to 3.4, they put me on Procrit. it brought my count up, but not for long. then we went to 3 units of blood, but it did not work either.then was off everything for 6 or 8 months and went into remission on my own.so you need to keep trying, looking for an answer. got o go now, ew Harley is helping me type. Hotmail Junk cstet...@hotmail.com wrote: We did LTCI and Interferon at the same time. As of today, Gray Kitty is now FeLV negative. We now deal with anemia and he is on a high dosage of Prednisolone. Through intensive research, we are going to try a new drug we are hoping will cure the anemia. The high dosage of Pred does bring his numbers high again, however, has other side effects with long term use. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 24, 2009, at 6:37 PM, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Lance, Thanks for all the info. I'm familiar with LTCI but not as much with some of the others you mention. I definitely plan to ask the internal med at Cornell to look into these. We are definitely considering LTCI but the pred is the sticky part. Neither one of us want to take him off of the pred for something that has no research backing up that it works. She read all the research and had several others review it. They all agreed the science sounds reasonable but there are just so many problems with the paper. I have yet to read it myself but plan to. That is probably the one option I'm leaning towards. I also heard Neupogen mentioned somewhere and plan to ask her about that one. Amy --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Lance lini...@fastmail.fm wrote: From: Lance lini...@fastmail.fm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 11:08 PM Hi Amy, I'm sorry to hear about Wolfie. I don't have most of my email handy, so I can't look back at what you've written. Have you tried Transfer Factor? What about Liquid DMG? These are affordable supplements, and they *seem* to have helped in the case of my FeLV+ girl, Ember. DMG especially *seems* to have little possibility of any negative consequences. When I've seen wbc issues in Ember, I've *seemingly* reversed some losses with these supplements. Please note how I use the word *seem*. Neupogen might be an option. It's something I'm keeping in mind, but I don't know much about it, other than it helps with wbc generation. I believe some folks have used ImmunoRegulin in similar situations to yours and had good results. Maybe the archives will shed some light on that. And I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Epogen helping in non-regen anemia, though that makes absolutely no sense. Again, the archives will hopefully help. LTCI might help with wbc generation. I'm seeing lots of mention of it on the list, but I'm very leery of it. We FeLV+ caregivers are so eager for anything that might help, but the marketing Immulan has engaged in has been questionable. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't help, but the company haven't done enough proper tests to provide real reassurance that their product works. It's good that we're getting anecdotal evidence on the list, but that only goes so far. Finally, I wonder if Pet Tinic might not help the rbc that Wolfie is able to produce. It's really just nutrients and nothing terribly unusual... mainly iron, I think. Obviously, when it comes to any of these options, please consult your vet. My hopes and prayers for Wolfie's health, and for your ability to find something that might help his blood counts. Lance On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:01 -0800, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: I've posted before about my cat Wolfie. He's 7 years old and has been losing weight for the past 4 years. His HCT is also down (currently 25). We've treated for hemobart and retested and he's now negative (was positive before). He has started gaining weight and has put on a pound but I'm sure the leukemia is in his bone marrow. He's been tested and has non-regenerative anemia. He's been stable for a few months but his WBC, RBC, and platelet counts are all gradually declining. I was expecting him to crash when I got the confirmation of non-regenerative anemia but he's holding his own. I was told he's probably making red blood cells in his liver or spleen, just no longer in the bone marrow. Has anybody ever had luck with LTCI or any of the other things mentioned once it has gotten to this point? I've done all sorts of testing for digestive issues, lymphoma, IBD, etc. We have
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Amy, You have a cat in the stages that most of us dread. You have a few options available to you. You can follow conventional advice or you can take a chance. From what I've seen conventional medicine does not help in this scenario. My first question is this; Why is he on prednisone? The only possible reason I can see for this is hemobartonella. If that's not present, I fail to see the value. Prednisone seems to be the cure all in veterinary medicine and with few exceptions it simply relieves symptoms while your cat dies. I don't think you have much time to make a choice. Unless there is a valid reason for using the prednisone, I would stop it (taper it) I would be aggressive at this point. I would get acemannan, LTCI and I would probably try the vitamin c drip (I have not used this yet, but Sally would certainly be willing to help you with it). I would do it all together and right now. This is of course dependent on your financial situation - I understand the massive investment this could mean. If, however, you simply treat symptoms and try transfusion, antibiotics, prednisone etc you are simply prolonging the inevitable and only by a small amount - this will also be exceptionally expensive. Here's the thing, you have not done a transfusion yet so you sort of have that as a back door immediate rescue if you need it. The prednisone is not raising the Hct so why do you think it's helping? You have a non regenerative anemia on your hands. Unless you reverse that you're dead in the water - prednisone will not do this. You are facing a tough decision, I know, I understand and I am so sorry for that. If you leave the beaten path of veterinary medicine you have to do the leg work and fight an uphill battle. Medicine is not perfect and neither are people but I can honestly say that from what I have seem, conventional medicine has failed time and again in this situation. Good luck and God bless. Jenny ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Well Fred started having seizures 3 hours after his vet visit, we're not sure what is causing those but he is on phenobarbitol and those so far are controlled. He is eating like a little piggy and drinking. It takes about 2 weeks for them to get used to the effects of the phenobarbitol so he is pretty much out of it most of the day. His legs aren't working right now even though he does try to get up and can walk a step or 2 before he loses his balance. The blood work results show that there is possibly cancer, if so I would guess a brain tumor but the vet said it also could be from a severe inner ear infection, which he does have an inner ear infection, he was on drops only so I asked for the pills too, asked a week ago when we diagnosed him but the vet I saw then said it wasn't that bad and he didn't need them, they were obviously wrong and it has probably gotten worse again. I'm going to tell my vet I want to keep him on the baytril for wahtever time he has left, this is the 5th time an infection has come back because the vet wouldn't listen to me. He had an infection years ago that he kept getting back because they wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics longer like I requested. Fred has a really bad time clearing infections and they really kick his butt so I have to be more forceful about that. I know someone who's cat was on baytril for 8 years and she did fine. Would appreciate prayers for Fred to get over this latest hurdle ... and yes I have told him if he is ready to go I am fine with that, he has my blessing, but he keeps hanging on, he is one tough cookie!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Belinda, Wow. You have a sick little kitty. I don't know if you're looking for input or not; and I know nothing about his history but I would suggest two things. 1. Find a holistic vet. 2. Check a basic metabolic panel. CRF patients often have electrolyte imbalances that can cause seizures. Vitamin b12, vitamin e and electrolyte replacement can help. Okay one more thing. I don't know much about the approach to crf in animals but in people often times the solution is prednisone or immune suppression as the disease process is usually autoimmune. I know nothing of what has been done in veterinary medicine to deal with this. I just thought I'd tell you that. Good luck and I will pray for your little guy. Jenny On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.comwrote: Well Fred started having seizures 3 hours after his vet visit, we're not sure what is causing those but he is on phenobarbitol and those so far are controlled. He is eating like a little piggy and drinking. It takes about 2 weeks for them to get used to the effects of the phenobarbitol so he is pretty much out of it most of the day. His legs aren't working right now even though he does try to get up and can walk a step or 2 before he loses his balance. The blood work results show that there is possibly cancer, if so I would guess a brain tumor but the vet said it also could be from a severe inner ear infection, which he does have an inner ear infection, he was on drops only so I asked for the pills too, asked a week ago when we diagnosed him but the vet I saw then said it wasn't that bad and he didn't need them, they were obviously wrong and it has probably gotten worse again. I'm going to tell my vet I want to keep him on the baytril for wahtever time he has left, this is the 5th time an infection has come back because the vet wouldn't listen to me. He had an infection years ago that he kept getting back because they wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics longer like I requested. Fred has a really bad time clearing infections and they really kick his butt so I have to be more forceful about that. I know someone who's cat was on baytril for 8 years and she did fine. Would appreciate prayers for Fred to get over this latest hurdle ... and yes I have told him if he is ready to go I am fine with that, he has my blessing, but he keeps hanging on, he is one tough cookie!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com http://belindasauro.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi Jenny, Thanks for the advice. I have certainly considered all my options and I know that this is not a good place for Wolfie to be at. I've had so many positive cats and unfortunately I know how it usually ends. This one has made it longer than any of my other ones and I would do anything to save him if I thought that something existed. Wolfie started pred after testing positive for hemobart. I tried weaning him off the pred once the treatment was completed and he became very weak and lethargic after dropping to one pill a day. The specialist at Cornell told me that the pred could definitely be helping if we are dealing with lymphoma or other issues and we all agreed that having Wolfie crash right now by taking him off the pred is probably not the way to go. I know it's not going to reverse his non-regenerative anemia. Is there anything that can do that? Nothing I'm aware of does. That's why I posted asking if anybody has seen a cat brought back by LTCI once non-regenerative anemia has been confirmed. There are some definite pros and cons to using it. Numerous vets have told me that it doesn't come without the stress of bloodwork, additional visits, monitoring, etc. If I had evidence that this could reverse Wolfie's situation, I would seriously consider it. Heck I'm considering it even knowing it probably won't. I have nothing but Wolfie's best interest in mind. I'm not sure monitoring and routinely drawing blood on a cat that is no longer making red blood cells is a wise decision when not one person out there has been able to say yes, this saved my cat from non-regenerative anemia. I hope that LTCI turns out to be a life-saver. I really do. I'm just afraid of all the hype because if just seems too good to be true. I have to think about Wolfie and the fact that he is very opinionated. He's not a cat that would want to sit at a vet getting drips or being hospitalized. I'm all for doing everything I can to save him but I also have to respect the cat that he is and how I want his last months, weeks, days, whatever to be spent. I'm trying to gather as much info as possible to make the best decision for him. I hate this disease and I hate that I might not be able to do anything to save him :( Thanks again for all the suggestions. I am definitely researching everything. I am very familiar with holistic approaches and by no means feel obligated to follow conventional medicine. I just want to do what is best for Wolfie and I'm not sure any of us really know the answer to that when it comes to this disease. Amy --- On Thu, 11/26/09, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: From: jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 3:37 PM Amy, You have a cat in the stages that most of us dread. You have a few options available to you. You can follow conventional advice or you can take a chance. From what I've seen conventional medicine does not help in this scenario. My first question is this; Why is he on prednisone? The only possible reason I can see for this is hemobartonella. If that's not present, I fail to see the value. Prednisone seems to be the cure all in veterinary medicine and with few exceptions it simply relieves symptoms while your cat dies. I don't think you have much time to make a choice. Unless there is a valid reason for using the prednisone, I would stop it (taper it) I would be aggressive at this point. I would get acemannan, LTCI and I would probably try the vitamin c drip (I have not used this yet, but Sally would certainly be willing to help you with it). I would do it all together and right now. This is of course dependent on your financial situation - I understand the massive investment this could mean. If, however, you simply treat symptoms and try transfusion, antibiotics, prednisone etc you are simply prolonging the inevitable and only by a small amount - this will also be exceptionally expensive. Here's the thing, you have not done a transfusion yet so you sort of have that as a back door immediate rescue if you need it. The prednisone is not raising the Hct so why do you think it's helping? You have a non regenerative anemia on your hands. Unless you reverse that you're dead in the water - prednisone will not do this. You are facing a tough decision, I know, I understand and I am so sorry for that. If you leave the beaten path of veterinary medicine you have to do the leg work and fight an uphill battle. Medicine is not perfect and neither are people but I can honestly say that from what I have seem, conventional medicine has failed time and again in this situation. Good luck and God bless. Jenny ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi Amy, Not sure if I told you that Bailey my + had non-rengerative anemia and epogen got his HCT up. He started at 3 shots a week that you would be able to do at home, Fred is currently getting this for his non-regenerative anemia and in 4 weeks has gone from HCT 16% to 26%, that's about the only thing that is going right at this time, everything else is going to h*ll in a hand basket!! Baliey HCT went from 15% to 40 percent on about 6 or so weeks and remained normal in the mid 30's until he passed from pancreatic cancer. He was on it over 5 months. He would have died in a few weeks had not started it, with those odds I didn't see any reason not to. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
I am not a vet, but I would be surprised if either Liquid DMG or Transfer Factor would be a problem when giving prednisone or another steroid. They are both supplements and not really in the same category as interferon, LTCI or something like that. Best wishes for you and Wolfie. Lance On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:37 -0800, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Lance, Thanks for all the info. I'm familiar with LTCI but not as much with some of the others you mention. I definitely plan to ask the internal med at Cornell to look into these. We are definitely considering LTCI but the pred is the sticky part. Neither one of us want to take him off of the pred for something that has no research backing up that it works. She read all the research and had several others review it. They all agreed the science sounds reasonable but there are just so many problems with the paper. I have yet to read it myself but plan to. That is probably the one option I'm leaning towards. I also heard Neupogen mentioned somewhere and plan to ask her about that one. Amy --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Lance lini...@fastmail.fm wrote: From: Lance lini...@fastmail.fm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 11:08 PM Hi Amy, I'm sorry to hear about Wolfie. I don't have most of my email handy, so I can't look back at what you've written. Have you tried Transfer Factor? What about Liquid DMG? These are affordable supplements, and they *seem* to have helped in the case of my FeLV+ girl, Ember. DMG especially *seems* to have little possibility of any negative consequences. When I've seen wbc issues in Ember, I've *seemingly* reversed some losses with these supplements. Please note how I use the word *seem*. Neupogen might be an option. It's something I'm keeping in mind, but I don't know much about it, other than it helps with wbc generation. I believe some folks have used ImmunoRegulin in similar situations to yours and had good results. Maybe the archives will shed some light on that. And I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Epogen helping in non-regen anemia, though that makes absolutely no sense. Again, the archives will hopefully help. LTCI might help with wbc generation. I'm seeing lots of mention of it on the list, but I'm very leery of it. We FeLV+ caregivers are so eager for anything that might help, but the marketing Immulan has engaged in has been questionable. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't help, but the company haven't done enough proper tests to provide real reassurance that their product works. It's good that we're getting anecdotal evidence on the list, but that only goes so far. Finally, I wonder if Pet Tinic might not help the rbc that Wolfie is able to produce. It's really just nutrients and nothing terribly unusual... mainly iron, I think. Obviously, when it comes to any of these options, please consult your vet. My hopes and prayers for Wolfie's health, and for your ability to find something that might help his blood counts. Lance On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:01 -0800, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: I've posted before about my cat Wolfie. He's 7 years old and has been losing weight for the past 4 years. His HCT is also down (currently 25). We've treated for hemobart and retested and he's now negative (was positive before). He has started gaining weight and has put on a pound but I'm sure the leukemia is in his bone marrow. He's been tested and has non-regenerative anemia. He's been stable for a few months but his WBC, RBC, and platelet counts are all gradually declining. I was expecting him to crash when I got the confirmation of non-regenerative anemia but he's holding his own. I was told he's probably making red blood cells in his liver or spleen, just no longer in the bone marrow. Has anybody ever had luck with LTCI or any of the other things mentioned once it has gotten to this point? I've done all sorts of testing for digestive issues, lymphoma, IBD, etc. We have made a couple trips to Cornell and decided to just keep him on pred and monitor trends for now. I keep hoping for some miracle but I know the prognosis is not good. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Lance Linimon lini...@fastmail.fm ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Belinda, I hope Fred is feeling feeling better soon. Please keep us posted. Amy --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com wrote: From: Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 10:48 PM Took Fred in today because he is getting weaker and weaker, his HCT is up to 27.5, so still going up, I think he has a massive infection somewhere, he does have an ear infection and is on ear drops for that but I think he has a urinary tract infection too. Will have the results tomorrow. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi Gary, Wolfie hasn't had any transfusions yet. We've done ultrasounds, x-rays, lots of panels of testing, etc. We have discussed transfusions with the internal med at Cornell but I won't put him through repeated ones just to buy him a little more time. I totally understand why other people do it and I would do it in a crisis until we could try other stuff if needed. Anyways, I did hear that I'd have to wean off the pred if trying LTCI and that's why I was asking if anybody has seen this stuff turn around a cat like this. I've talked to numerous vets and they all agree they wouldn't risk taking a stable cat off the pred and having him crash just to try the LTCI. I'd feel awful if I made things worse. I'm torn because I'm willing to do anything to help him but at $90 a dose, I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons. Amy I have had a number of cats that were FeLV positive and had anemia. I have tried Epogen and if it did anything at all, it wasn't noticeable. It is too bad you live in such an expensive area, I'll bet those treatments Wolfie has had would be half that here in Arkansas. You are fortunate that Wolfie does so well with transfusions, many times they don't last very long and don't raise the HCT all that much. I also tried Immunoregulin on a couple. It appeared there was a very short term improvement and then they went downhill. That doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you. I believe the protocol says if there isn't an improvement in a very short time after starting treatment, you know it isn't going to work. Now is definitely the time to try something while his HCT is still at a reasonable level. I haven't tried the LTCI, mostly because I can't afford it. I recently took in two kittens that tested positive for FeLV, both were thin and anemic. I tried some Acemannan on them and they are both doing great now. It is much less expensive than LTCI, but I could not guarantee it would help in any particular situation. I wish I had the chance to try it on a couple of the adult FeLV cats I have lost to anemia. Personally, I don't think any of the available supplements that people (including myself) give these babies to build their immune systems, will reverse non-regenerative anemia. Something a bit more proactive is needed. If you decide to try LTCI or Acemannan, I believe you will have to stop the pred. before starting either of those. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:02 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing I've posted before about my cat Wolfie. He's 7 years old and has been losing weight for the past 4 years. His HCT is also down (currently 25). We've treated for hemobart and retested and he's now negative (was positive before). He has started gaining weight and has put on a pound but I'm sure the leukemia is in his bone marrow. He's been tested and has non-regenerative anemia. He's been stable for a few months but his WBC, RBC, and platelet counts are all gradually declining. I was expecting him to crash when I got the confirmation of non-regenerative anemia but he's holding his own. I was told he's probably making red blood cells in his liver or spleen, just no longer in the bone marrow. Has anybody ever had luck with LTCI or any of the other things mentioned once it has gotten to this point? I've done all sorts of testing for digestive issues, lymphoma, IBD, etc. We have made a couple trips to Cornell and decided to just keep him on pred and monitor trends for now. I keep hoping for some miracle but I know the prognosis is not good. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
No transfusions, hmmm, makes me wonder which two emails my mind was combining. I had heard the LTCI was somewhere between $60 and $100 a shot and I think an initial series is around 10 shots. There is a lady on the FIP list who has been treating 15 cats, wish I had that kind of money. I was sure you'd have to stop the pred to use LTCI, I'm not 100% sure for Acemannan as I don't have the package insert any more, but I think you might. Acemannan comes in a box of 4 10mg vials (actually 8, 4 powder and 4 sterile water for mixing) and doses at 1 mg per KG once a week for 6 weeks. I was told a box would be about $175, my vet is giving me mine for $125 (I think that might be his cost) to try something they haven't tried before. I am fortunate that my vets are pretty much willing to try anything I bring them and are willing to learn about new or little known treatments or tests. Acemannan is made by VPL (Veterinary Products Laboratories) and their site is www.vpl.com if you check the tech support page you will see the contact info for Dr, Greg Biehle who is the technical assistance person for Acemannan Immunostimulant. He is a very nice guy who is willing to speak with anyone (not just vets) who is seriously interested in trying Acemannan. If he isn't at the clinic when you call or is busy, he will call you back. I can understand your reluctance to change things now while Wolfie is stable, but I am sure you are aware that at some point his condition will start to go downhill and a change will be needed. I hope he is able to maintain for a long time. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:49 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing Hi Gary, Wolfie hasn't had any transfusions yet. We've done ultrasounds, x-rays, lots of panels of testing, etc. We have discussed transfusions with the internal med at Cornell but I won't put him through repeated ones just to buy him a little more time. I totally understand why other people do it and I would do it in a crisis until we could try other stuff if needed. Anyways, I did hear that I'd have to wean off the pred if trying LTCI and that's why I was asking if anybody has seen this stuff turn around a cat like this. I've talked to numerous vets and they all agree they wouldn't risk taking a stable cat off the pred and having him crash just to try the LTCI. I'd feel awful if I made things worse. I'm torn because I'm willing to do anything to help him but at $90 a dose, I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons. Amy I have had a number of cats that were FeLV positive and had anemia. I have tried Epogen and if it did anything at all, it wasn't noticeable. It is too bad you live in such an expensive area, I'll bet those treatments Wolfie has had would be half that here in Arkansas. You are fortunate that Wolfie does so well with transfusions, many times they don't last very long and don't raise the HCT all that much. I also tried Immunoregulin on a couple. It appeared there was a very short term improvement and then they went downhill. That doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you. I believe the protocol says if there isn't an improvement in a very short time after starting treatment, you know it isn't going to work. Now is definitely the time to try something while his HCT is still at a reasonable level. I haven't tried the LTCI, mostly because I can't afford it. I recently took in two kittens that tested positive for FeLV, both were thin and anemic. I tried some Acemannan on them and they are both doing great now. It is much less expensive than LTCI, but I could not guarantee it would help in any particular situation. I wish I had the chance to try it on a couple of the adult FeLV cats I have lost to anemia. Personally, I don't think any of the available supplements that people (including myself) give these babies to build their immune systems, will reverse non-regenerative anemia. Something a bit more proactive is needed. If you decide to try LTCI or Acemannan, I believe you will have to stop the pred. before starting either of those. Gary ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi Belinda, I definitely considered Epogen but have decided against it for now. Wolfie spent several months on Nutrived with no change in his HCT. I was hoping that might do the trick :( Thanks Amy Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 1:58 AM Bailey was on epogen with his non regenerative anemia and it did bring his HCT back to normal, my Fred currently is on epogen, he is not positive but has non regenerative anemia because of CRF (chronic renal failure), his HCt is slowly coming back up. I prefer Nutrived to Pet Tinic because it has folic acid in it, vit b, iron and folic acid are needed to build new blood cells. As far as I know Pet Tinic doesn't have folic acid. Bailey was positive. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi Lance, Thanks for all the info. I'm familiar with LTCI but not as much with some of the others you mention. I definitely plan to ask the internal med at Cornell to look into these. We are definitely considering LTCI but the pred is the sticky part. Neither one of us want to take him off of the pred for something that has no research backing up that it works. She read all the research and had several others review it. They all agreed the science sounds reasonable but there are just so many problems with the paper. I have yet to read it myself but plan to. That is probably the one option I'm leaning towards. I also heard Neupogen mentioned somewhere and plan to ask her about that one. Amy --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Lance lini...@fastmail.fm wrote: From: Lance lini...@fastmail.fm Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 11:08 PM Hi Amy, I'm sorry to hear about Wolfie. I don't have most of my email handy, so I can't look back at what you've written. Have you tried Transfer Factor? What about Liquid DMG? These are affordable supplements, and they *seem* to have helped in the case of my FeLV+ girl, Ember. DMG especially *seems* to have little possibility of any negative consequences. When I've seen wbc issues in Ember, I've *seemingly* reversed some losses with these supplements. Please note how I use the word *seem*. Neupogen might be an option. It's something I'm keeping in mind, but I don't know much about it, other than it helps with wbc generation. I believe some folks have used ImmunoRegulin in similar situations to yours and had good results. Maybe the archives will shed some light on that. And I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Epogen helping in non-regen anemia, though that makes absolutely no sense. Again, the archives will hopefully help. LTCI might help with wbc generation. I'm seeing lots of mention of it on the list, but I'm very leery of it. We FeLV+ caregivers are so eager for anything that might help, but the marketing Immulan has engaged in has been questionable. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't help, but the company haven't done enough proper tests to provide real reassurance that their product works. It's good that we're getting anecdotal evidence on the list, but that only goes so far. Finally, I wonder if Pet Tinic might not help the rbc that Wolfie is able to produce. It's really just nutrients and nothing terribly unusual... mainly iron, I think. Obviously, when it comes to any of these options, please consult your vet. My hopes and prayers for Wolfie's health, and for your ability to find something that might help his blood counts. Lance On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:01 -0800, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: I've posted before about my cat Wolfie. He's 7 years old and has been losing weight for the past 4 years. His HCT is also down (currently 25). We've treated for hemobart and retested and he's now negative (was positive before). He has started gaining weight and has put on a pound but I'm sure the leukemia is in his bone marrow. He's been tested and has non-regenerative anemia. He's been stable for a few months but his WBC, RBC, and platelet counts are all gradually declining. I was expecting him to crash when I got the confirmation of non-regenerative anemia but he's holding his own. I was told he's probably making red blood cells in his liver or spleen, just no longer in the bone marrow. Has anybody ever had luck with LTCI or any of the other things mentioned once it has gotten to this point? I've done all sorts of testing for digestive issues, lymphoma, IBD, etc. We have made a couple trips to Cornell and decided to just keep him on pred and monitor trends for now. I keep hoping for some miracle but I know the prognosis is not good. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Lance Linimon lini...@fastmail.fm ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Took Fred in today because he is getting weaker and weaker, his HCT is up to 27.5, so still going up, I think he has a massive infection somewhere, he does have an ear infection and is on ear drops for that but I think he has a urinary tract infection too. Will have the results tomorrow. If you do at some point decide to go with the epogen, remember it can take up to three weeks or longer to start the HCT going up so don't wait until it get too low. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Belinda, Here are vibes for Fred to bounce back!! Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:48 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing Took Fred in today because he is getting weaker and weaker, his HCT is up to 27.5, so still going up, I think he has a massive infection somewhere, he does have an ear infection and is on ear drops for that but I think he has a urinary tract infection too. Will have the results tomorrow. If you do at some point decide to go with the epogen, remember it can take up to three weeks or longer to start the HCT going up so don't wait until it get too low. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
I've posted before about my cat Wolfie. He's 7 years old and has been losing weight for the past 4 years. His HCT is also down (currently 25). We've treated for hemobart and retested and he's now negative (was positive before). He has started gaining weight and has put on a pound but I'm sure the leukemia is in his bone marrow. He's been tested and has non-regenerative anemia. He's been stable for a few months but his WBC, RBC, and platelet counts are all gradually declining. I was expecting him to crash when I got the confirmation of non-regenerative anemia but he's holding his own. I was told he's probably making red blood cells in his liver or spleen, just no longer in the bone marrow. Has anybody ever had luck with LTCI or any of the other things mentioned once it has gotten to this point? I've done all sorts of testing for digestive issues, lymphoma, IBD, etc. We have made a couple trips to Cornell and decided to just keep him on pred and monitor trends for now. I keep hoping for some miracle but I know the prognosis is not good. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi Amy, I'm sorry to hear about Wolfie. I don't have most of my email handy, so I can't look back at what you've written. Have you tried Transfer Factor? What about Liquid DMG? These are affordable supplements, and they *seem* to have helped in the case of my FeLV+ girl, Ember. DMG especially *seems* to have little possibility of any negative consequences. When I've seen wbc issues in Ember, I've *seemingly* reversed some losses with these supplements. Please note how I use the word *seem*. Neupogen might be an option. It's something I'm keeping in mind, but I don't know much about it, other than it helps with wbc generation. I believe some folks have used ImmunoRegulin in similar situations to yours and had good results. Maybe the archives will shed some light on that. And I could be wrong, but I seem to remember Epogen helping in non-regen anemia, though that makes absolutely no sense. Again, the archives will hopefully help. LTCI might help with wbc generation. I'm seeing lots of mention of it on the list, but I'm very leery of it. We FeLV+ caregivers are so eager for anything that might help, but the marketing Immulan has engaged in has been questionable. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't help, but the company haven't done enough proper tests to provide real reassurance that their product works. It's good that we're getting anecdotal evidence on the list, but that only goes so far. Finally, I wonder if Pet Tinic might not help the rbc that Wolfie is able to produce. It's really just nutrients and nothing terribly unusual... mainly iron, I think. Obviously, when it comes to any of these options, please consult your vet. My hopes and prayers for Wolfie's health, and for your ability to find something that might help his blood counts. Lance On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:01 -0800, Amy awilkin...@yahoo.com wrote: I've posted before about my cat Wolfie. He's 7 years old and has been losing weight for the past 4 years. His HCT is also down (currently 25). We've treated for hemobart and retested and he's now negative (was positive before). He has started gaining weight and has put on a pound but I'm sure the leukemia is in his bone marrow. He's been tested and has non-regenerative anemia. He's been stable for a few months but his WBC, RBC, and platelet counts are all gradually declining. I was expecting him to crash when I got the confirmation of non-regenerative anemia but he's holding his own. I was told he's probably making red blood cells in his liver or spleen, just no longer in the bone marrow. Has anybody ever had luck with LTCI or any of the other things mentioned once it has gotten to this point? I've done all sorts of testing for digestive issues, lymphoma, IBD, etc. We have made a couple trips to Cornell and decided to just keep him on pred and monitor trends for now. I keep hoping for some miracle but I know the prognosis is not good. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Lance Linimon lini...@fastmail.fm ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi, I have had a number of cats that were FeLV positive and had anemia. I have tried Epogen and if it did anything at all, it wasn't noticeable. It is too bad you live in such an expensive area, I'll bet those treatments Wolfie has had would be half that here in Arkansas. You are fortunate that Wolfie does so well with transfusions, many times they don't last very long and don't raise the HCT all that much. I also tried Immunoregulin on a couple. It appeared there was a very short term improvement and then they went downhill. That doesn't mean it wouldn't work for you. I believe the protocol says if there isn't an improvement in a very short time after starting treatment, you know it isn't going to work. Now is definitely the time to try something while his HCT is still at a reasonable level. I haven't tried the LTCI, mostly because I can't afford it. I recently took in two kittens that tested positive for FeLV, both were thin and anemic. I tried some Acemannan on them and they are both doing great now. It is much less expensive than LTCI, but I could not guarantee it would help in any particular situation. I wish I had the chance to try it on a couple of the adult FeLV cats I have lost to anemia. Personally, I don't think any of the available supplements that people (including myself) give these babies to build their immune systems, will reverse non-regenerative anemia. Something a bit more proactive is needed. If you decide to try LTCI or Acemannan, I believe you will have to stop the pred. before starting either of those. Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:02 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing I've posted before about my cat Wolfie. He's 7 years old and has been losing weight for the past 4 years. His HCT is also down (currently 25). We've treated for hemobart and retested and he's now negative (was positive before). He has started gaining weight and has put on a pound but I'm sure the leukemia is in his bone marrow. He's been tested and has non-regenerative anemia. He's been stable for a few months but his WBC, RBC, and platelet counts are all gradually declining. I was expecting him to crash when I got the confirmation of non-regenerative anemia but he's holding his own. I was told he's probably making red blood cells in his liver or spleen, just no longer in the bone marrow. Has anybody ever had luck with LTCI or any of the other things mentioned once it has gotten to this point? I've done all sorts of testing for digestive issues, lymphoma, IBD, etc. We have made a couple trips to Cornell and decided to just keep him on pred and monitor trends for now. I keep hoping for some miracle but I know the prognosis is not good. Thanks Amy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Bailey was on epogen with his non regenerative anemia and it did bring his HCT back to normal, my Fred currently is on epogen, he is not positive but has non regenerative anemia because of CRF (chronic renal failure), his HCt is slowly coming back up. I prefer Nutrived to Pet Tinic because it has folic acid in it, vit b, iron and folic acid are needed to build new blood cells. As far as I know Pet Tinic doesn't have folic acid. Bailey was positive. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
