Re: [Finale] Importance of 3rd Party Plugins to Finale

[Steve Parker]

Hahaha!

I agree..

> On 27 Mar 2019, at 17:56, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> I find both yours and Jari¹s plugs are indispensable. I¹m happy to advertise 
>> them. Any user who doesn¹t have them is walking with their shoelaces tied 
>> together.
> 
> behind their ankles.
> 
> in knee-deep snow.
> 
> at night.
> 
> blindfolded.
> 
> towards the cliff...
> 
> -- 
> 
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> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
> 
> shirling & neueweise  |  http://newmusicnotation.com
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Re: [Finale] Importance of 3rd Party Plugins to Finale

[Steve Parker]

I find both yours and Jari’s plugs are indispensable. I’m happy to advertise 
them. Any user who doesn’t have them is walking with their shoelaces tied 
together. 

Steve P. 

> On 27 Mar 2019, at 15:58, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> The Tantacrul Youtube channel recently published a good critique video of
> MuseScore. The channel has already published one on Sibelius and is
> promising one for Dorico and Finale as well. In the Fin/Sib wars, the
> author is definitely a Sib partisan, though he hates the design layout of
> Sib. Therefore I fully expect his Finale video will be a complete pan (with
> much of it doubtless justified).
> 
> I have never disputed that Finale's usuability is pretty terrible, *unless
> you integrate 3rd party plugins* into your workflow. A great example comes
> at this point in the MuseScore
>  video. The author
> correctly notes how much slower MuseScore is than Sibelius. And honestly,
> they both seem like they may beat out native Finale. However, they both are
> repetitive solutions that grow in a linear relation with the number of
> staves and number of measures. By contrast, if you incorporate my Mass Copy
> plugin into this task, you only make the change once and then copy to as
> many staves and measures as you select with a single click. The length of
> time required is no longer related to the number of staves/bars and is
> *much* faster than either technique in the video.
> 
> This post is not intended to be an advertisement. Finale has many
> indispensable 3rd party plugins I didn't write, including free ones. I am
> mainly posting this here because I thought the group might be interested in
> Tantacrul's quite entertaining videos. And I also wanted to note how
> Finale's powerful 3rd party plugin interface keeps it competitive in the
> face of mounting serious challengers.
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[Finale] Music reading choir survey

[Steve Parker]

Dear All,

Would you mind sharing my survey with any singers or choir members?

https://surveyhero.com/c/ae91e2d5

Thank you,

Steve Parker
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Re: [Finale] Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2

[Steve Parker]

Here are my most used plugins (JW and Patterson):

Copy Part Layout - native in Dorico
Instrument Change - native in Dorico
Kitchen Department - native in Dorico
Start New Piece - native in Dorico
Yada Yada Tremelo - easily achieved and customised in Dorico
Settings Scrapbook - I only used this to overcome a terrible old bug, not 
needed in Dorico

Percussion goes way beyond any other software in that you can have, for 
example, a kit in the score but split to separate staves in the parts. You can 
easily move an instrument with its music to another player.
Using Dorico’s ‘flows’, you can have multiple new pieces with automatically 
shown and completely formatable and customisable title/header info, set per 
layout to start on a new page or to flow on from the previous page - with 
different automatic titling options for each.

As to the relevance of this discussion, this is not a MakeMusic owned group. 
Most of us (I’m sure) have to be able to at least work in Finale and Sibelius. 
I sometimes have to prepare scores in Cubase, Logic and DP. Comparing software 
across platforms is a very useful thing, especially Jari’s and Robert’s plugins 
- without which Finale would be a horror. If MakeMusic have any sense they will 
be playing with Dorico to see where they need to go.

Steve P.

> On 31 Jan 2019, at 13:42, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
> Craig makes some very important points.  Added to the fact that Finale is 
> basically frozen in time is it's horrible corporate history, having been sold 
> from company to company because nobody has any idea what to do with it.  
> There is a very real fear that someday whichever company owns Finale at that 
> point might try to sell it, find no buyers and then just let it die forever, 
> leaving all Finale users high and dry and in need of other notation software 
> to move to.
> 
> One additional point I would make is that like all human discussion groups, 
> the discussion moves in whatever direction those who are doing the discussing 
> move it.  If someone wants to get it back more focused on Finale, then it's 
> important that they raise a question or make a statement for others to 
> discuss.
> 
> This group is not lead by designated discussion leaders -- we're all 
> responsible for the discussions.
> 
> So ask a finale related question and see where the discussion goes.
> 
> David H. Bailey
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/31/2019 8:35 AM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
>> If Finale were doing any significant developments to their product I'm sure 
>> we would be happy to talk about that.  It is the fact that Finale is 
>> basically frozen in time that causes people to think about what other 
>> options are available and practical.
>> In the case of this thread, the main question seems to be how difficult it 
>> would be to make a move to Dorico if a person uses the various FInale 
>> plug-ins very heavily. If this doesn't interest you, that's OK, but it seems 
>> to be a rather important question for those who depend on the plug-ins.
>> Those Finale plug-ins don't always have a direct counterpart in Dorico. 
>> That's why it is necessary to talk in some depth about how Dorico operates.
>> On 1/31/2019 3:14 AM, Paolo Alberto Rismondo wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> It seems to me that this is 'Finale mailing list', not '... mailing list'.
>>> 
>>> Thank you in advance for your kind attention,
>>> 
>>> all best,
>>> 
>>> Paolo A. Rismondo
>> ---
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Re: [Finale] Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2

[Steve Parker]

Hi Christoper,

This is something that is promised. You can easily set divisi passages with 
extra staves. As far as cuing goes, you select something in the part and choose 
from a list of which instrument(s) you want cued. 

As it stands now, I still find combining instruments into a staff to be easier 
than in Finale, because it is so easy to have three staves (combined, I and II) 
and allocate these to different layouts.

Steve P.

> On 28 Jan 2019, at 13:45, Christopher Smith  
> wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for the info. Are you saying that Dorico handles two instruments per 
> score staff, but with individual parts separated, including cues and solos, 
> very well? (I find this is a weakness in Finale).
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
>> On Jan 28, 2019, at 8:31 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m now using Dorico for all new projects. Dorico’s ability to have distinct 
>> pieces in one file (‘flows’) that can be reordered saves so much time. For 
>> each layout, these can be set to continue on the same page or to start a new 
>> page, both with header information. Dorico handles cue superbly. The lengths 
>> of these can be dragged to extend or reduce, all correctly labelled. Dorico 
>> handles doubling players well, with automatic labelling. Dorico is also 
>> strong for percussion writing. You can easily switch from a combined set to 
>> individual instruments, because the underlying music representation is 
>> distinct from the form of it on the page.
>> 
>> Dorico has some annoyances. IMO more engraving decisions should 
>> auto-propagate to parts. This is easily dealt with, but can catch you out. 
>> Sometimes cutting ties is the quickest method to enter dynamics etc. This 
>> ‘reversing’ always feels uncomfortable. Undo/redo includes every selection 
>> and click that you make. I hate this, but it does make me careful to think 
>> things through rather than to do and undo. Dorico jumps around more than I 
>> understand to focus the screen on something I don’t want to see (or worse I 
>> don’t immediately know where I am). Conversely, I can’t reliably find a way 
>> to link focus between score and parts.
>> 
>> My biggest hassle in Dorico is its inability to set bars-per-system over a 
>> specified range of bars. You can do this one system at a time, but it’s 
>> annoying that something so simple in Finale takes longer in Dorico. However, 
>> Dorico’s first guess at system layout is far better than Finale’s.
>> 
>> On the whole, Dorico’s downsides lose me minutes, but its upsides gain me 
>> days.
>> 
>> Steve Parker
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Re: [Finale] Sale: Dorico Pro 2 and Dorico Elements 2

[Steve Parker]

I’m now using Dorico for all new projects. Dorico’s ability to have distinct 
pieces in one file (‘flows’) that can be reordered saves so much time. For each 
layout, these can be set to continue on the same page or to start a new page, 
both with header information. Dorico handles cue superbly. The lengths of these 
can be dragged to extend or reduce, all correctly labelled. Dorico handles 
doubling players well, with automatic labelling. Dorico is also strong for 
percussion writing. You can easily switch from a combined set to individual 
instruments, because the underlying music representation is distinct from the 
form of it on the page.

Dorico has some annoyances. IMO more engraving decisions should auto-propagate 
to parts. This is easily dealt with, but can catch you out. Sometimes cutting 
ties is the quickest method to enter dynamics etc. This ‘reversing’ always 
feels uncomfortable. Undo/redo includes every selection and click that you 
make. I hate this, but it does make me careful to think things through rather 
than to do and undo. Dorico jumps around more than I understand to focus the 
screen on something I don’t want to see (or worse I don’t immediately know 
where I am). Conversely, I can’t reliably find a way to link focus between 
score and parts.

My biggest hassle in Dorico is its inability to set bars-per-system over a 
specified range of bars. You can do this one system at a time, but it’s 
annoying that something so simple in Finale takes longer in Dorico. However, 
Dorico’s first guess at system layout is far better than Finale’s.

On the whole, Dorico’s downsides lose me minutes, but its upsides gain me days.

Steve Parker
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Re: [Finale] Fin26 Observations

[Steve Parker]

Can you stack articulations as Ligeti does?

> On 11 Oct 2018, at 23:14, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> David Bailey said: "it stacks the articulations as it feels they ought to
> be."
> 
> Actually, it stacks the articulations based on their order in the
> Articulation Selection dialog box. If you want them to stack in a different
> order, you can change their order in the list and they will automatically
> stack in the new order. This may or may not be behavior that is desirable,
> but it can be exploited if you understand it.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 3:11 PM David H. Bailey 
> wrote:
> 
>> Fin25 / Fin26, you say potatoes, I say potahtoes.  Not much difference
>> that I can see.
>> 
>> I just tried a quick experiment to see how wonderful the new automatic
>> placement feature for slurs and other articulations works, and I have to
>> say that it does what it claims to, although hardly the big deal around
>> which to build a whole-number upgrade.
>> 
>> Yes that does make multiple articulations much neater by default.  But
>> it stacks the articulations as it feels they ought to be.  If we want
>> them stacked differently we still have to drag them as we've had to do
>> in all previous versions of Finale.
>> 
>> Looking at the list of what's new in Fin26, there is the comment:
>> "Palette. The Simple Entry Rests Palette is now one of the default
>> palettes displayed when launching Finale."  -- Did anybody really suffer
>> from having to actually manually have the Simple Entry Rests Palette
>> display whenever Simple Entry mode is used, or setting Finale to have it
>> display all the time if we so wished?  Hardly worth a whole-number upgrade!
>> 
>> "...the return of the Maestro font Lead Sheet template" -- so putting
>> something *back* which should never have been removed in the first place
>> is something we have to pay for?  Especially aggravating, given that we
>> had to pay for the upgrade where they removed it in the first place!
>> 
>> No, I see nothing making this a worthwhile upgrade for anybody who is on
>> Finale12, 14, 14.5 and definitely not worth the price for someone
>> working in Finale25.  If a person is on a much earlier version of Finale
>> then this will offer a lot of improvements, but beware, some
>> long-standing bugs (read Giz's message) are still there
>> 
>> Unless the articulations were driving you batty, in which case you may
>> feel it's worth the $150 upgrade fee.  I'm with Giz Bowe on this -- it's
>> the last upgrade for Finale I'll be buying until they do major
>> improvements to the program.  I notice that they don't appear to address
>> the numerous complaints about the linked score/parts and what is linked
>> and what is unlinked.
>> 
>> Gone are the days of the mind-blowing, new-feature-rich upgrades of the
>> past, where we could suddenly do something that previously had been
>> impossible or at least very difficult.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> *
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbaile...@comcast.net
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Steve Parker]

Thanks for the commentary, David. 

> On 10 Oct 2018, at 21:29, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 10/10/2018 3:54 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
>> It officially launched today at an upgrade price of $150.
>> It seems that the upgrade mainly consists of a few improvements to collision 
>> avoidance.  Perhaps there is much more than immediately meets the eye, but 
>> this seems like a rather thin upgrade for $150.
>> I may upgrade, but I have been doing most of my work in Dorico lately, which 
>> already does 10x more automatic collision avoidance than Finale.
>> I'd appreciate hearing about any experience from people doing upgrades or 
>> using the demo version.
> 
> Second observation -- Fin26 will automatically remove Fin25 and install Fin26 
> if we aren't careful to read all the fine print in the installation dialog 
> boxes!  There is a dialogue labeled "Uninstall Finale 25" which has a 
> checkbox to uninstall Fin25, which comes checked by default (wrong decision 
> by the developers in my opinion), so if we're not careful to UNcheck that 
> box, we'll lose our Fin25 installation. That may be unimportant for some who 
> will simply remove older versions and use the newest one, but with all the 
> upgrading troubles moving our data files from previous versions up to the 
> most recent Finale versions, I'm keeping most of my Finale versions installed.
> 
> 
> -- 
> *
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> dhbaile...@comcast.net
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Re: [Finale] Finale 26 -- Opinions?

[Steve Parker]

Also interested in this. I’m still on 14.5, but also doing most work in Dorico. 

Steve P. 

> On 10 Oct 2018, at 20:54, Craig Parmerlee  wrote:
> 
> It officially launched today at an upgrade price of $150.
> 
> It seems that the upgrade mainly consists of a few improvements to collision 
> avoidance.  Perhaps there is much more than immediately meets the eye, but 
> this seems like a rather thin upgrade for $150.
> 
> I may upgrade, but I have been doing most of my work in Dorico lately, which 
> already does 10x more automatic collision avoidance than Finale.
> 
> I'd appreciate hearing about any experience from people doing upgrades or 
> using the demo version.
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Finale version 26

[Steve Parker]

Noteheads spent about ten years sending similar press out about Igor.. 

Steve P. 

> On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:29, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 8/8/2018 9:42 PM, Jon Delfin wrote:
>> What's to discuss? So far, all we have is a version number and press
>> release puffery.
> [snip]
> 
> My thoughts exactly -- it read to me as if they hadn't even come close at all 
> to having a version ready for alpha testing, let alone beta testing and then 
> final release (the *real* beta-testing for Finale). It's as if the people who 
> put out that release had any idea what might actually be included in the new 
> version.
> 
> It's almost as if they are afraid of the inroads that Dorico is making in the 
> notation software world and wanted us all to know that they haven't abandoned 
> development of Finale as some of us have suggested. It's obvious that they're 
> more interested in SmartMusic and its annual subscription model that's 
> attractive to school music programs to aid in assessing student progress in 
> order to assign grades based on empirical performance skills.
> 
> Sort of a "wait, wait, don't jump ship yet, we really will have a new version 
> coming.  Someday."
> 
> There was nothing at all of any substance beside the version number.  It will 
> be interesting to see how frequently they send out similar messages which 
> might actually include real information to help whet our appetites to know 
> what might actually be coming.
> 
> I'm not holding my breath, though.
> 
> 
> -- 
> *
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Re: [Finale] OT: score order for a chamber group

[Steve Parker]

Sop, clar, bass clar, violin, cello for me too, no question.

Steve P.

> On 11 Jun 2018, at 20:32, j...@thomastudios.com wrote:
> 
> Forgot bass clarinet, I’d put it under the clarinet.
> 
> ***
> J D Thomas
> ThomaStudios
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2018, at 12:28 PM, Michael Edwards  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> [Michael Meyer:]
>> 
>>> A student of mine wrote their end-of-year composition project for my Music
>>> Theory class for soprano accompanied by clarinet, violin, bass clarinet,
>>> and cello.
>>> 
>>> For a chamber group, what order would you put the instruments in? It seems
>>> weird to put them in strict orchestral order (which would put the soprano
>>> in the middle, and I would think she should be at the top).
>>> 
>>> Happy to hear opinions! Thanks!
>> 
>>I think I would put the soprano at the top, but the rest in normal 
>> orchestral order.
>>I have an idea that chamber music does usually follow orchestral order, 
>> with a few exceptions - such as piano (when present) at the bottom, or a 
>> solo singer at the top.
>>If I recall correctly, Schubert's Octet has the score arranged in the 
>> order: Clarinet; Horn; Bassoon; Violin 1; Violin 2; Viola; Cello; 
>> Double-Bass.  (The Horn is another exception to orchestral practice - put 
>> above the Bassoon, in average order of descending pitch, so classifying all 
>> the wind together.)
>>Beethoven's Septet (with almost the same instrumentation) does similarly 
>> in copies of that score I've seen.
>>So I would feel safe in doing what I just listed above.
>>Hope that helps a little.
>> 
>> Michael Edwards.
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

[Steve Parker]

There will only be one upgrade price. Anyone who upgrades will automatically 
get the full version. 
FWIW I’ve seen non-commercial clauses in edu software plenty of times. 

Steve P. 

> On 23 Apr 2018, at 00:21, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 4/22/2018 8:50 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote:
>> This confused me as well, but it appears that if you have a Dorico
>> educational license, you're not allowed to produce commercial work. See
>> question 9 at https://www.steinberg.net/en/education/faq.html
>> 
>> Aaron.
>> 
> 
> That is so bizarre -- Steinberg is the only company I know of with that 
> limitation.  How will they know you're producing commercial output?
> 
> And I've never heard of an upgrade changing a license from educational 
> to full -- I guess possibly the upgrade price for an educational license 
> might be more money than when upgrading a full-license original.
> 
> Thank you for pointing that out!  I stand corrected and I appreciate 
> knowing I was mistaken.
> 
> 
> -- 
> *
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

[Steve Parker]

> On 21 Apr 2018, at 13:33, Robert Patterson  > wrote:
> 
> Wait. Is Dorico at the truly professional level? All I've heard is that it
> has the potential to be but isn't there yet. I mean, one of the Dorico
> users in this thread even said they export to Finale for the finished
> product. (Which surprised me.)

This may have been me?

I don’t export to Finale. I do everything in Dorico, then start again in Finale.

This is a method of learning Dorico. At this point (after maybe 3 months proper 
use), I’m way quicker in Dorico than after decades of Finale.
The only reason I’m still re-doing in Finale is that I bought an educational 
licence for Dorico (I’m a postgrad…).
When the next paid upgrade comes, I will move to a full licence.

I don’t want to be on the Finale forum as a fan-boy for Dorico, but it is at a 
professional level. Some things need workarounds at the moment—temporarily I’m 
sure. But I use workarounds in Finale every day. Even mixed metres with aligned 
bars can be achieved. For contemporary music, using music frames which can have 
any music assigned to them, allows things to be achieved within Dorico that 
would require cutting up in a graphics program. Pedalling, cues, lyrics, 
instrument changes—all take significant fiddling in Finale, but none in Dorico.

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

[Steve Parker]

It also deals with doubling and instrument changes automatically. You basically 
have different staves for the same player in galley view, and it sorts it 
everywhere else. 
Cueing other instruments is also so easy that I provide many more cues than I 
used to. 
I’m just giving these as examples of where ‘mature’ doesn’t necessarily mean 
there are only small steps of improvement to take. 
ATM I’m doing work in Dorico, then quickly re-doing again in Finale for 
delivery.  Re-doing it now is slower and much more frustrating than in Dorico. 

> On 20 Apr 2018, at 01:18, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 4/19/2018 7:58 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>> I don't think I understand Steve Parker's comment about "MT scores". I
>> don't doubt that Finale requires stitching together thirty files, but I
>> don't understand the requirement well enough to understand why.
>> 
>> My question about different layouts is, are they anything like linked
>> parts? Because an improved interface for copying part layouts is definitely
>> something that I've wanted and could actually be done by a plugin.
>> 
> 
> I have only begun to scratch the surface of what Dorico can do, but I'll 
> take a stab at answering this.  Then Steve Parker can leap in and tell 
> me I'm crazy and fix up my explanation.
> 
> Musical theater has all those many different songs and dances and vamps 
> and scene-change pieces, many with different instrumentation needs. 
> Very hard to do in a single large file in Finale.
> 
> In Dorico, you create the total ensemble you want, assigning instruments 
> (and sounds) to the "players" (Dorico is using some terms that are a bit 
> strange in my opinion).  So if the maximum number of instruments needed 
> is a total of 30 different instruments for the total show, you can 
> create that ensemble to begin with.
> 
> Dorico has things called "flows" which are essentially different 
> movements.  One can choose whichever instruments out of the total 
> original ensemble one wants to use in any particular "flow."  You simply 
> select the instruments from the original large ensemble and viola you 
> have just what you need in the new flow.
> 
> The layout for each "flow" can be completely different from other 
> "flows" in the same file, all done easily and without endangering the 
> layouts for other flows.
> 
> Then, once all the flows are created, the part for each of the original 
> "players" can be printed and it will show only the flows that player is 
> used in.  I haven't worked with the linked parts yet, but from all I've 
> read they are a dream compared to Finale's.
> 
> There are many videos about using Dorico on Youtube, so you could search 
> there to see what's possible.
> 
> It really is very powerful software but with a vastly different approach 
> to notation projects from either Finale or Sibelius.
> 
> -- 
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

[Steve Parker]

The linked parts work well in Dorico, with a continuing discussion on what 
should/should not be linked and how best to override. They basically work like 
Finale now, but will become more flexible and user-preferanceable..

For copying part layouts, Dorico has master-page sets, which can be applied to 
any score or part. It’s very easy to create new layouts. I find myself creating 
a score of two or three instruments just to work on a few bars. 

It doesn’t have something like Jari’s Copy Part Layout to  put the same number 
of bars on each line in across parts. I’ve discussed this kind of thing with 
them with also the possibility to copy text positioning. 

> On 20 Apr 2018, at 00:58, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> I don't think I understand Steve Parker's comment about "MT scores". I
> don't doubt that Finale requires stitching together thirty files, but I
> don't understand the requirement well enough to understand why.
> 
> My question about different layouts is, are they anything like linked
> parts? Because an improved interface for copying part layouts is definitely
> something that I've wanted and could actually be done by a plugin.
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Steve Parker  wrote:
>> 
>> Dorico’s workflow is interesting.
>> I can do an MT score for a production in one file, rather than thirty
>> which need stitching together in Finale. Different cues can be assigned to
>> different layouts. It’s simple to have alternatives in the same file and to
>> pick and replace.
>> 
>>> On 19 Apr 2018, at 20:48, David H. Bailey 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 4/19/2018 2:20 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>> Every year that Finale does nothing, it gets another year behind the
>>>> state of the art.  It seems doubtful to me Finale will ever return to
>>>> anywhere close to the state of the art.  Moreover, I don't see any
>>>> indication the company even considers that a goal.
>>> [snip]
>>> 
>>> Finale is a mature program, as is Sibelius.  That doesn't mean it's
>>> close to perfect, but it does mean that the company realizes that there
>>> is a diminishing return on investment, since what it improves will be
>>> meaningful (most of the time) to a decreasing number of users.
>>> 
>>> And the marketplace for new users is very divided -- college students
>>> can get by very adequately with MuseScore, as can many amateur
>>> composers/arrangers who would have been the prime candidates for the
>>> cheaper versions of Finale in the past.  And the marketplace currently
>>> is very divided, what with Sibelius still going strong, the entry of
>>> Dorico to compete for the high-end publishing quality notation software
>>> market, along with Notion and Forte to take up the not-so-high-end part
>>> of the marketplace.  These days I recommend MuseScore to all my students
>>> who express an interest in notation software, since it is very powerful
>>> and continues to get better and better.  Only if someone wants something
>>> better than MuseScore to I suggest Finale and/or Sibelius.
>>> 
>>> Personally I have switched to doing practically all my notation products
>>> in Sibelius -- for my notational needs it does all that I need/want and
>>> it does it more easily and quickly.
>>> 
>>> The company isn't moving Finale forward very fast because it can't
>>> recoup its investment.  Whereas with SmartMusic, and its
>>> subscription-only business model, it sits on a cash cow.  As far as the
>>> company is concerned, I'll bet they consider Finale necessary primarily
>>> as a tool for people to create SmartMusic accompaniment files and it can
>>> already do what it needs to for that without further investment in the
>>> minutiae of avant-garde notation and without improving long-standing
>>> bugs which will never get fixed.
>>> 
>>> Heck, even if you create your own music and then create SmartMusic
>>> accompaniment files, you still have to pay the subscription fee!  Smart
>>> marketing, but something I don't have any interest in doing.  However,
>>> for band directors and other music teachers in academic situations, it's
>>> something that gives them objective data on which to assign grades to
>>> students, and it takes very little effort on the band director or music
>>> teacher's part.  And once the assignments have been created the teacher
>>> no longer needs to schedule time to hear every s

Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

[Steve Parker]

Dorico’s workflow is interesting. 
I can do an MT score for a production in one file, rather than thirty which 
need stitching together in Finale. Different cues can be assigned to different 
layouts. It’s simple to have alternatives in the same file and to pick and 
replace.  

> On 19 Apr 2018, at 20:48, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 4/19/2018 2:20 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
>> [snip]
>> Every year that Finale does nothing, it gets another year behind the
>> state of the art.  It seems doubtful to me Finale will ever return to
>> anywhere close to the state of the art.  Moreover, I don't see any
>> indication the company even considers that a goal.
> [snip]
> 
> Finale is a mature program, as is Sibelius.  That doesn't mean it's 
> close to perfect, but it does mean that the company realizes that there 
> is a diminishing return on investment, since what it improves will be 
> meaningful (most of the time) to a decreasing number of users.
> 
> And the marketplace for new users is very divided -- college students 
> can get by very adequately with MuseScore, as can many amateur 
> composers/arrangers who would have been the prime candidates for the 
> cheaper versions of Finale in the past.  And the marketplace currently 
> is very divided, what with Sibelius still going strong, the entry of 
> Dorico to compete for the high-end publishing quality notation software 
> market, along with Notion and Forte to take up the not-so-high-end part 
> of the marketplace.  These days I recommend MuseScore to all my students 
> who express an interest in notation software, since it is very powerful 
> and continues to get better and better.  Only if someone wants something 
> better than MuseScore to I suggest Finale and/or Sibelius.
> 
> Personally I have switched to doing practically all my notation products 
> in Sibelius -- for my notational needs it does all that I need/want and 
> it does it more easily and quickly.
> 
> The company isn't moving Finale forward very fast because it can't 
> recoup its investment.  Whereas with SmartMusic, and its 
> subscription-only business model, it sits on a cash cow.  As far as the 
> company is concerned, I'll bet they consider Finale necessary primarily 
> as a tool for people to create SmartMusic accompaniment files and it can 
> already do what it needs to for that without further investment in the 
> minutiae of avant-garde notation and without improving long-standing 
> bugs which will never get fixed.
> 
> Heck, even if you create your own music and then create SmartMusic 
> accompaniment files, you still have to pay the subscription fee!  Smart 
> marketing, but something I don't have any interest in doing.  However, 
> for band directors and other music teachers in academic situations, it's 
> something that gives them objective data on which to assign grades to 
> students, and it takes very little effort on the band director or music 
> teacher's part.  And once the assignments have been created the teacher 
> no longer needs to schedule time to hear every student, and students 
> can't complain "Mr. So-and-So doesn't like me so he gave me a D, when 
> SuzyQ, who got an A, doesn't play any better than I do!"
> 
> That's been the course of the company for the past several owners.
> 
> I'm very sorry to read that Michael Johnson has left the company.  Is 
> there anybody from the "good old days" left?  I assume Michael Goode is 
> still there, but he is a recent addition.  Is there any "institutional 
> memory" left among the development team?
> 
> -- 
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Things to be done in the middle of a bar.

[Steve Parker]

The method David describes is a good one. 
The gotcha is to watch for bar numbering..!

Steve P. 

> On 17 Aug 2017, at 13:21, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> not really "mid-bar" change, more like butt-splicing different pieces 
> together, each with anacrusis and final "incomplete" measure.  but 
> yeah achieved in the same multi-step tasks in finale.
> 
> thanks for the reminder that i haven't listened to this piece in awhile :P
> 
> 
>>  Change time signature.  I realize this is unusual, but I think it
>> can make sense in certain situations.  For example, it can be found
>> several times in Beethoven's 31st Piano Sonata, Op. 110, where, in the
>> last movement, 12/16 changes to 6/8 mid-bar, then back and forth another
>> couple of times, always mid-bar:
>> 
>> http://hz.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/a/a3/IMSLP51805-PMLP01488-Beethoven_Werke_Breitkopf_Serie_16_No_154_Op_110.pdf
> 
> -- 
> 
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
> 
> shirling & neueweise  |  http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
> 
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Re: [Finale] Mac Modeless Plugin Windows

[Steve Parker]

Odd. It’s definitely 1.04, and definitely in the only plugins folder for 
2014.5, replacing the 1.03.
Also, the problem is now different. It immediately quits Finale rather than 
just disappearing.
Back to 1.03 for now..

Steve P.

> On 16 Jan 2017, at 15:08, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> That's weird. I had your identical symptoms with JW Copy Part Layout and
> 14.5 until I updated to 1.04. I have a hard time believing the problem is
> Sierra but it might be. The more likely explanation is you copied the 1.04
> file to the wrong place, but since you've double checked I'm stumped. I
> wish the plugin had a way to confirm the version while running.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I restarted a few times after 1.04 quit it.
>> 2014.5 works fine with Sierra generally, other than  it crashes when I
>> quit. It's done that since 2014.
>> 
>>> On 16 Jan 2017, at 14:32, Robert Patterson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm still on 10.11, but 1.04 works fine there for me (with 14.5). Are you
>>> certain you restarted Finale after updating? It could also be a Sierra
>>> problem. I believe Fin14d is incompatible with Sierra but I don't recall
>>> the status of 14.5.
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 8:14 AM, Steve Parker 
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hmm.. just updated from 1.03 to 1.04.
>>>> Finale instantly quits without warning when I hit ‘close’ on the
>> plug-in,
>>>> now..
>>>> Is 1.04 ok with 2014.5 and Sierra?
>>>> 
>>>> Steve P.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 16 Jan 2017, at 13:09, Robert Patterson <
>> rob...@robertgpatterson.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can only use ‘Copy Part Layout’ once without restarting Finale.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That sounds like you need to update it to the latest version. I had
>> this
>>>>> problem until I updated.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Steve Parker 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not sure if it’s related, but I can only use ‘Copy Part Layout’ once
>>>>>> without restarting Finale.
>>>>>> It disappears and won’t come back.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Finale 2014.5, Sierra.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Mac Modeless Plugin Windows

[Steve Parker]

Yes, I restarted a few times after 1.04 quit it. 
2014.5 works fine with Sierra generally, other than  it crashes when I quit. 
It's done that since 2014. 

> On 16 Jan 2017, at 14:32, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm still on 10.11, but 1.04 works fine there for me (with 14.5). Are you
> certain you restarted Finale after updating? It could also be a Sierra
> problem. I believe Fin14d is incompatible with Sierra but I don't recall
> the status of 14.5.
> 
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 8:14 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
>> 
>> Hmm.. just updated from 1.03 to 1.04.
>> Finale instantly quits without warning when I hit ‘close’ on the plug-in,
>> now..
>> Is 1.04 ok with 2014.5 and Sierra?
>> 
>> Steve P.
>> 
>>> On 16 Jan 2017, at 13:09, Robert Patterson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I can only use ‘Copy Part Layout’ once without restarting Finale.
>>> 
>>> That sounds like you need to update it to the latest version. I had this
>>> problem until I updated.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Steve Parker 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Not sure if it’s related, but I can only use ‘Copy Part Layout’ once
>>>> without restarting Finale.
>>>> It disappears and won’t come back.
>>>> 
>>>> Finale 2014.5, Sierra.
>>>> 
>>>> Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Mac Modeless Plugin Windows

[Steve Parker]

Hmm.. just updated from 1.03 to 1.04.
Finale instantly quits without warning when I hit ‘close’ on the plug-in, now..
Is 1.04 ok with 2014.5 and Sierra?

Steve P.

> On 16 Jan 2017, at 13:09, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
>> I can only use ‘Copy Part Layout’ once without restarting Finale.
> 
> That sounds like you need to update it to the latest version. I had this
> problem until I updated.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
>> Not sure if it’s related, but I can only use ‘Copy Part Layout’ once
>> without restarting Finale.
>> It disappears and won’t come back.
>> 
>> Finale 2014.5, Sierra.
>> 
>> Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] WinFin 2014.5: playback restriction

[Steve Parker]

Do you have an expression where playback is accidentally set to ‘tempo’ with 
value 0 or 1 or something?

Steve P.

> On 16 Jan 2017, at 13:37, Houghton, Mark [wmh]  wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> Apologies for what will seem a simple question to most of you. I'm playing 
> back a score which, after 30 measures, ceases to playback. I want to review 
> the whole score by listening in its entirety (for proof reading). Can 
> somebody suggest were the 30 measure restriction lies, so that I can alter to 
> encompass the whole score.
> 
> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> Mark
> 
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Re: [Finale] Mac Modeless Plugin Windows

[Steve Parker]

Not sure if it’s related, but I can only use ‘Copy Part Layout’ once without 
restarting Finale.
It disappears and won’t come back.

Finale 2014.5, Sierra.

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Filling a 5/4 bar with one note

[Steve Parker]

> On 20 Dec 2016, at 15:35, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, December 20, 2016 10:33 am, SN jef chippewa wrote:
>> 
>>> I¹m attracted by the idea of a symbol that would fill *any* bar.
>> 
>> like a whole rest? :P
> 
> A whole note with a short right-pointing arrow, since that's already used for
> continuation?

Would work if it could become standard.

I’ll start..!

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Filling a 5/4 bar with one note

[Steve Parker]

> On 20 Dec 2016, at 15:33, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I¹m attracted by the idea of a symbol that would fill *any* bar.
> 
> like a whole rest? :P

Ho hum.. that’d do for half the cases. :-)

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Re: [Finale] Filling a 5/4 bar with one note

[Steve Parker]

> The general assumption, I believe, is that Crumb invented it. One
> interesting aspect of it is that it shows up in his scores without
> explanation, leaving the musicians to figure it out.

Along with a lot of other things.. I’ve seen theses explaining some of them!
I’ve never seen it anywhere else.
I’m attracted by the idea of a symbol that would fill *any* bar.

Steve P.


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Re: [Finale] Reliable way to combine multiple files

[Steve Parker]

Hi Robert,

> On 12 Dec 2016, at 20:24, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> I refuse to do post processing with a pdf editor. I would be willing to
> simply combine pdf's output by Finale, but any further post-processing than
> that is unacceptable to me.

Not to start one… but why?
I’ve always collated these kind of things outside Finale.

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Reliable way to combine multiple files

[Steve Parker]

100% don't do this in Finale. 
Sort page numbers in Finale. Easiest to make L and R pages the same.  Print to 
PDF.  On mac you can open all the pdfs together, order them, then print to PDF 
with them all selected. 

Steve P. 

> On 12 Dec 2016, at 09:32, Jón Kristinn Cortez  wrote:
> 
> Hello John.
> 
> Instead of using Finale to combine the files, with all the troubles that can 
> cause, how about print the files to PDF, using numbers 011-200 in order you 
> want the songs to be, and then combine the PDFs into one file.
> Is there a reason you want to combine the Finale files?
> 
> Cortez
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10. des. 2016, at 01:29, John Witmer  wrote:
>> 
>> Robert,
>> I need your advice. I'm in the process of completing a 200 song compendium 
>> using Finale 2014.5  When it is finished, (I promised it would be ready 
>> "early" in 2017), I'll need to merge the individual charts for a single 
>> document. This is for the sole use of a retirement community, but they'll 
>> need about 100 copies. I believe I have volunteers who will fund the 
>> printing, but I need to get good copy. 
>> 
>> Now, is Finale 25 good enough to undertake this task, or should I finish it 
>> with Finale 2014.5? Either way, I'm afraid it will be a real chore. If all 
>> else fails, I'll have to print 200 separate charts and collate them. This 
>> will be hard because I need to print most pages "back-to-back" to keep the 
>> total size less than an unabridged dictionary.
>> 
>> Your advice would be gratefully appreciated.
>> Chordially,
>> John Witmer
>> Clemson Downs Retirement Community.
>> 
>> On 12/9/2016 5:35:12 PM, Robert Patterson  
>> wrote:
>> I've been messing with the Score Merger function in Finale 25. It does a
>> halfway decent job, but
>> 
>> 1. It fails to copy lyric baseline adjustments (and I would guess probably
>> expression baseline adjustments as well).
>> 2. It idiotically goes nuts if a bar has too many beats (like a hard whole
>> rest in a 2/4 bar, which is frequently required for L1/L2 parts).
>> 3. It makes a mess of lyric text.
>> 4. It doesn't know how to create percussion staves that match the source
>> file, so percussion is a mess.
>> 
>> Does anyone know a better way?
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Steve Parker]

I actually 100% agree. If the stresses are not important then i would go 4/4 to 
6/4 and I would conduct it as a bar of six.
If the music is complex then even a minim pulse can be hemiola.
If I wanted to conduct the crotchets here, I would conduct a 6/4 pattern with 
minim icthus points.

The converse is useful as well. If the music is chucking along in cut-common, I 
would tend to write a 3/2 bar even the music was two dotted minims.

The original question was (I thought) about the case where the stresses were 
important?
Sometimes I write time sigs to just organise the music as best I can, but 
sometimes I absolutely care about stuff like 3/2 and 6/4 because I can get 
meaning from it.

I caught your music once a couple of years ago on BBC radio 3 (I think). It was 
beyond great!

Steve P.


> On 9 Dec 2016, at 22:14, iCloud  wrote:
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> The distinction is useful until it’s not.
> 
> If I have a fast piece in 2/2, conducted in 2, and then I need a bar that’s 
> elongated by a beat, I’m going to write a bar of 3/2, and conduct that bar in 
> 3.
> 
> If I have a piece in 5/4, conducted in 5, and then I need a bar that’s 
> elongated by a beat, I’m going to write a bar of 6/4, and conduct that bar in 
> 6.
> 
> If I have a piece in 4/4, conducted in 4, and then I need a bar that’s 
> elongated by two beats, I’m also going to write a bar of 6/4, and conduct 
> that bar in 6.
> 
> Traditional worries about which parts of the bar are stressed don’t really 
> apply to my music, and that’s true of much modern music.
> 
> That bar of 6 might contain people playing all kinds of syncopations and 
> over-the-barline rhythms and cross-rhythms. There might not even *be* an 
> attack on beat 4 to emphasize. Insisting that 3/2 can only be 2+2+2 and 6/4 
> can *only* be 2+2+2 is a convention that is not useful my music, or in the 
> music of many (if not most) contemporary composers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> — DJA
> -
> http://secretsocietymusic.org
> 
> On Dec 8, 2016, 4:23 PM -0500, David H. Bailey 
> , wrote:
>> On 12/8/2016 8:10 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>> [snip]> Though I've seen it done, alternating notations of 4/4 and 3/2
>> while keeping
>>> the quarter-note pulse the same never made sense to me. I would be expecting
>>> the conductor to switch to /2 pulses.
>>> 
>> [snip]
>> 
>> That's how I conduct that sort of passage -- 4 quarter-note beats
>> indicated for the 4/4, then 3 half-note beats indicated in the 3/2
>> measures, each of which is twice as slow as the quarter note beats of
>> the 4/4 passage. Thus the speed of the quarter note is maintained and
>> the emphasis as implied by the meter is indicated, putting the stress on
>> 1, 3, 5 in the 3/2 sections as the original poster intends.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 25 System Requirements

[Steve Parker]

Runs fine on my 2010 white MacBook with Sierra.

Steve P.

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 13:38, Jazz-sax  wrote:
> 
> It will run fine. The biggest thing is that you need to have 10.10 as a 
> starting point.
> 
> Sent from my iSomething
> --
> Eric Dannewitz
> Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius
> http://www.ericdannewitz.com
> 
>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:52 AM, Giovanni Andreani  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I've checked the specifications which set the minimum standards required for 
>> Finale 25 on the Mac platform.
>> I'm working on a MacBook Pro (the 15-inch late 2011 model) and, while its 
>> 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7 processor differs from the Intel Core 2 Duo processor 
>> set as the minimum requirement, I would like to know if, according to 
>> anyone's experience, Finale would run just the same.
>> 
>> Giovanni
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Giovanni Andreani
>> 
>> www.giovanniandreani.com
>> www.ga-music.com
>> 
>> www.facebook.com/MrAvenarius
>> www.twitter.com/MrAvenarius
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Steve Parker]

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 12:17, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> if the musicians you are working with are 
> inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them 
> with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but 
> prepare a professional score, with only the 
> ESSENTIAL information in it.

I saw the BBC Singers read pages of obscure score directions, then sight read 
the score. Damn perfect as far as I could tell!

Steve P.

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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Steve Parker]

If this is to me I'm militant about not overnotating. 
But, I also try to head off questions if possible. :-)

Steve P. 

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 12:17, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> this issue of apologetic notation is one i come 
> across often, more commonly in north america but 
> also in europe.  i can't speak for jazz 
> charts/musicians, but if you are working with 
> professional musicians, you MUST take it for 
> granted they know what the hell a bartók pizz is, 
> or a quarter tone.
> 
> no musician working professionally today and 
> playing new music can justify ignorance of these 
> (and a host of other) basic things.
> 
> what happens when the composer notates everything 
> is that the musician has to read a novel to 
> discover the one thing that is unique or special 
> to the composer/notation and given some don't 
> read the legend anyways (!) you are making it 
> even more likely your notation explanations won't 
> get read.  at least until after the rehearsals 
> without the composer present.
> 
> when you overannotate you can also come across as 
> condescending to musicians who know what the hell 
> a bartók pizz is.  again, if they know it and see 
> it in your legend, they can easily assume they 
> don't need to read any further because you have 
> written a score for newbies or high school bands, 
> which you should NEVER do.
> 
> if the musicians you are working with are 
> inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them 
> with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but 
> prepare a professional score, with only the 
> ESSENTIAL information in it.  a win-win 
> situation: whoever needs the supplement can read 
> it, whoever doesn't can make a paper plane out of 
> it to throw at the composer during the dress 
> rehearsal (i know someone this happened to...).
> 
> side note: scans of fingerings from published 
> texts should NEVER be included in your score, 
> that is a copyright infringement.  this is the 
> kind of thing that can be sent as a separate 
> sheet (along with your glossary, for example).
> 
> -- 
> 
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
> 
> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Steve Parker]

I’ve actually written ‘this is not a typo’ on parts…

Steve P.

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 00:42, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> RESPECT! finale knows its priorities.  so development $ was spent on 
> this -- and on writing a blog entry to explain the (ahem) 5 difficult 
> steps to get a beer mug to show over your music!!! -- and we are 
> still only back up to the speed of F2012 on the mac side?!?!?!?!
> 
> are you fucking serious?!
> 
> "Just for fun, we built a font that includes Patricia's symbols, so 
> you can use them in any size or combination in your Finale files. We 
> even put them into a Finale file modeled after Patricia's original" 
> (4 nov on finale blog)
> http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/articulations-wish-use
> 
> well... not sure what to say here, other than "Thanks, [Finale], for 
> reminding all of us that there's room for humor in music notation!"
> 
> -- 
> 
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
> 
> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
> 
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Steve Parker]

I think a composer should be able to do whatever they like. But it's not a 
convention that is outliving its usefulness, it is rather a useful distinction 
that is being contracted. 
I can happily conduct 6 beats in 3/2 to keep the pulse the same and I've never 
met anyone who would suddenly double the tempo of the crotchets just because 
they've seen 3/2. 
In terms of stress, subtleties matter. 
S.w.w. 3/2
S.w.S. 4/4+2/4
S.S.w. 2/4+4/4
Stress is, after all, a major reason for time signatures existing..

Steve P. 

> On 8 Dec 2016, at 13:15, Christopher Smith  
> wrote:
> 
> [I’ve trimmed the previous discussion]
> 
> I just conducted a piece for concert band by Samuel R. Hazo called 
> “Arabesque” where there is a single measure of 6/4 indicated to be conducted 
> 2+2+2 in a context of 4/4. I think this was the right decision, as 4/4 + 2/4 
> would have implied a stronger accent on the 2/4 bar than was on the 3 of the 
> 4/4 bar. It was a complex measure, too, and having me give a big downbeat in 
> the middle of that complex figure would have sent a message that wasn’t 
> implied in the music.
> 
> I wouldn’t have liked three bars of 2/4 either, in a context of 4/4, as that 
> would have been really weird.
> 
> I think that old convention of 6 being always compound time is relaxed now. 
> Other conventions that lived out their usefulness have been retired, too, so 
> I’m pretty okay with that.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 4:42 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
>> 
>> My tuppence:
>> 
>> I see both and if you have time to explain you could use either. 
>> But.. if I was writing for a sight read or studio session (or any classical 
>> players) I would write it the way it would be conducted. 
>> If I wrote 6/4 and then conducted three accents in the bar, it would lead to 
>> unnecessary questions. 
>> Can you give an example of where a combination of 4/4 and 2/4 wouldn't solve 
>> it, if you require the denominator to stay a 4? 
>> All I can think is something like a 5 over the 6 counts, but then it would 
>> be fine to treat the 3 accents as hemiola over 6 anyway. 
>> 
>> Steve P. 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Steve Parker]

Agree with David entirely. 
The distinction is a useful and longstanding one. 
I don't see what is gained by blurring it. 

Steve P. 

> On 8 Dec 2016, at 11:00, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 12/8/2016 12:36 AM, Giovanni Andreani wrote:
>> I agree with Patrick, the denominator suggests the pulse's value.
>> 
> 
> If that's true, then why is 6/8 so often played as 2/dotted-quarter 
> instead of clearly indicating each 8th note?  That seems to be the 
> majority of the time.
> 
> And the original question wasn't about which is less likely to cause 
> confusion in rehearsal (I find that most of the time such confusion is 
> caused by people who want to show off their music theory "skills" rather 
> than actual confusion by people who truly don't understand how the music 
> is supposed to sound).
> 
> The original question was how *best* to show that the emphasis in the 
> measure(s) in question should be on 1, 3, and 5 instead of 1 and 4.
> 
> I still don't understand how using a meter that is most widely 
> understood to be compound-triple meter (6 is usually broken up into 2 
> groups of 3) would indicate that.
> 
> Keeping the quarter note pulse going at the same rate shouldn't be a 
> problem for any composer to explain (the use of q = q should take care 
> of that) but how would a composer indicate that the emphasis should be 
> on 1, 3, 5 while using a meter that many people interpret as havint the 
> emphasis on 1 and 4?
> 
> Those of us on this list who have participated in this discussion would 
> have no problem since the way the question was asked originally lets us 
> know how the 6/4 or 3/2 measures should be interpreted.  But putting 
> aside those of us on this list, how would a composer indicate in a 
> printed score, without using accent marks which would likely produce 
> more emphasis than desired, that with a 6/4 meter the emphasis should be 
> 1, 3, 5 so that a performer far removed from this discussion or removed 
> even from this time (for example finding the score 50 years from now and 
> choosing to perform it) would understand how the music should sound?
> 
> -- 
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Steve Parker]

My tuppence:

I see both and if you have time to explain you could use either. 
But.. if I was writing for a sight read or studio session (or any classical 
players) I would write it the way it would be conducted. 
If I wrote 6/4 and then conducted three accents in the bar, it would lead to 
unnecessary questions. 
Can you give an example of where a combination of 4/4 and 2/4 wouldn't solve 
it, if you require the denominator to stay a 4? 
All I can think is something like a 5 over the 6 counts, but then it would be 
fine to treat the 3 accents as hemiola over 6 anyway. 

Steve P. 

> On 8 Dec 2016, at 05:36, Giovanni Andreani  wrote:
> 
> I agree with Patrick, the denominator suggests the pulse's value.
> 
> Giovanni Andreani
> 
>> On 7 Dec 2016, at 23:52, Patrick Sheehan  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 6/4.   Don't change the denominators.  Keep the denominator consistent as
>> the pulse stays consistent.
>> 
>> Patrick J. M. Sheehan
>> 
>> P. S. Music
>> 
>> patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Lee Dengler [mailto:leedeng...@comcast.net] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 1:10 PM
>> To: finale@shsu.edu
>> Subject: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4
>> 
>> I have a theory question for all you theory buffs out there.  I am writing a
>> piece that is mostly in a slow 4/4 meter (quarter note =60).  Occasionally,
>> I have a measure of 6 beats where the quarter note remains consistent.  In
>> those measures, the stress of lyrics falls on beats 1, 3 and 5.  Should I
>> make those measures 3/2 or 6/4.   My uncertainty lies in that going to 3/2
>> makes it look like the half note gets the beat, but 6/4 is generally
>> considered to be a compound meter (3+3).  Any words of wisdom?
>> 
>> Lee Dengler
>> 
>> leedeng...@comcast.net  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Finale] 2014.5 Playback - again!

[Steve Parker]

Yes, I've encountered it, but not fixed it. 
A bug. 

Steve P. 

> On 3 Dec 2016, at 14:44, Michael Lawlor  wrote:
> 
> This is a problem I encountered with earlier versions of Finale. 
> Suddenly, one instrument's volume drops so it cannot be heard (very 
> faint if playing solo) but then a few bars later, it plays at the 
> correct volume again.  I never got a solution before but worked around 
> it by deleting the affected bars and re-entering the music.
> 
> This time, I re-entered the music and it played back correctly, so I 
> deleted the bars with the problem but now the re-entered music has 
> inherited the same problem.  It is as if there is a virtual area and 
> whatever lies over it gets affected.  Has anyone else encountered this 
> and managed to fix it?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael Lawlor
> 
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[Finale] (Off Topic) Dorico

[Steve Parker]

I’ve spent a few hours playing with the Dorico trial.
The workflow seems terrible.. 
Can anyone answer some basic things? (I’ve rtfm…)
How can I add bars?
Can I use the arrow keys to input notes rather than a, b, c etc?
I was really hoping that Dorico would be open and modeless, in the sense that 
if I grab something, I should be able to move it.
That doesn’t even seem to be the case with basic text.
How do (easily) move a bar from one system to the next. Things like this (I 
thought) had been solved simply by Finale and Sibelius already. Dorico seems to 
be re-inventing the wheel for the hell of it (or patent avoidance..?).

In general, is there some way to create a layout of systems and bars and *then* 
add the notes?

If you can help, maybe reply off list. This is in no way urgent!

Thanks!

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Finale 25

[Steve Parker]

> The time signature dialogue can finally be clicked again, rather than dragged 
> (as in versions up to 2014), but the key signature dialogue (which was fine) 
> can now not be clicked and has to be dragged.

Further to this, the key sig box does have clickable arrows, but not when 
setting up from a template.

Steve P.


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[Finale] Finale 25

[Steve Parker]

I’ve been playing with the trial.
I can’t see any difference between that and 2014.5 other than telling me that 
Ambience is not supported.
Still no option to ‘reassign playback sounds' to Garritan. Still tells me it 
has unexpectedly quit when I quit it.
Still takes ages the first time I hit play.
The contoured dashed slurs look nicer but the large time signatures are clunky 
as hell for a new feature - the method (below) has more steps than my current 
kludge…
The time signature dialogue can finally be clicked again, rather than dragged 
(as in versions up to 2014), but the key signature dialogue (which was fine) 
can now not be clicked and has to be dragged.

Not a very useful message, but I shall not take advantage of the $99 price..

Steve P.






Creating large time signatures is common in full conductor scores. You can 
create these in Finale using the EngraverTime font 
.
 This method assigns the large time signature to the score but doesn't affect 
linked parts. In this method, you'll create and apply a staff style to a score 
to hide the usual time signatures, then change the time signature font options. 
This example works best using a score with six or more staves. 

If you're viewing a linked part and not the score, choose Document > Edit Score.
Choose Plug-ins > Scoring and Arranging > Global Staff Attributes. The Global 
Staff Attributes plug-in 

 appears. 
Deselect Time signatures in score. Click OK.
Choose Document > Document Options. On the left, choose the Fonts category. The 
Document Options - Fonts dialog box 

 appears.
Next to Notation, select Time (Score). Click the Set Font button. The Font 
dialog box 
 
appears.
Choose EngraverTime, Regular, Size 48. Click OK.
Choose the Time Signatures category on the left. The Document Options - Time 
Signatures dialog box 

 appears.
Under Vertical Adjustment, in the Score column, set Top Symbol to 1" and Bottom 
Symbol to -.75", and click OK.
You may need to experiment with these values to suit the needs of your score.
Choose the Staff tool  
.
Click to the left of the third staff (to select the entire staff). Choose Staff 
> Edit Staff Attributes. The Staff Attributes dialog box 
 
appears.
Select Time signature in score. Click OK. The large time signature appears. 
Repeat the previous step on subsequent staves, spaced apart as needed.

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Re: [Finale] Hairpins: cresc. dal niente; dim. al niente

[Steve Parker]

Nice!

Steve P.

> On 15 Nov 2016, at 16:34, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz  
> wrote:
> 
> This. This. This! Thanks so much ... can't wait to put it to work!
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> On Tue, November 15, 2016 11:08 am, Jan Angermüller wrote:
>> Here is a demo video of what my Perfect Layout plugin does to create
>> niente hairpins in Finale.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNYfVVNnYgw
>> 
>> Any niente "o" symbol is recognized as the full music font database is
>> included with support of more than 400 music fonts (and text fonts of
>> course).
>> The symbol is then visually connected to the hairpin.
>> Also the hairpins and dynamics are automatically vertically and
>> horizontally optimized.
>> The plugin is called with its default settings and performs all
>> optimizations tasks listed in https://elbsound.studio/perfect_layout.php .
>> It will be available when the JW Lua plugin engine has received at least
>> one more update from Jari.
>> 
>> Jan Angermueller
>> https://elbsound.studio
> 
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Re: [Finale] Hairpins: cresc. dal niente; dim. al niente

[Steve Parker]

I don't know why. It's a kludge for sure. 
I've never had it change from page to print. 
I do tend to do things like this last after layout. 

Steve P. 

> On 13 Nov 2016, at 13:49, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz  
> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, November 13, 2016 8:35 am, Steve Parker wrote:
>> My dodgy method is to use a diminished chord symbol sign on the end of a 
>> smart
>> hairpin. Slightly better tendency to stay put once dragged..
> 
> Is this different from the harmonic circle that I use? And why would it more
> likely stay in place? The problem is that the horizontal placement changes
> from page view to printed result.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Hairpins: cresc. dal niente; dim. al niente

[Steve Parker]

My dodgy method is to use a diminished chord symbol sign on the end of a smart 
hairpin. Slightly better tendency to stay put once dragged..

Steve P. 

> On 13 Nov 2016, at 13:06, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz  
> wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, November 13, 2016 7:26 am, Michael Lawlor wrote:
>> [Finale 2014.5]
>> 
>> I would like to use hairpins with circles at the end, a standard
>> notational element in modern music for cresc. from silence and dim. to
>> silence.  Is this possible in Finale?  I have found some old discussions
>> about creating expressions, but they cannot be stretched and look
>> amateur.  Has a proper, professional solution been devised yet?  It
>> ought to be easy, since it is a simple extension of the existing smart
>> shapes
> 
> Unless I'm missing something, I have never had luck with these. I have tried
> creating stretchable shapes as well as using standard hairpins and placing the
> circle. The stretchable ones don't stay attached to the circle. And the
> standard ones all have to be tweaked in page view in huge magnification --
> otherwise they don't end up with the circle in the right place in the final
> PDFs.
> 
> Any more automated solution is welcome here, too!
> 
> Dennis
> 
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Re: [Finale] Percussion setup

[Steve Parker]

Not a helpful reply.. but..
I'm touring and don't have the files, but I did beat this into submission after 
far too many hours. 
Kludge kludge kludge

Steve P. 

> On 23 Oct 2016, at 15:00, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a handle of Percussion map setup? It seems like a complete
> CF to me. Half the time I select a percussion instrument and it puts up
> "The Percussion Layout(s) cannot be found" dialog box. Then it won't play
> back the correct sounds even when I enter the correct notes.
> 
> And don't even get me started on having to constantly refer to the mapping
> to discover which arbitrary keyboard note I have to hit to get it to
> display on the correct line or space. Is there something I'm missing? It's
> so laughably bad that I can't see how anyone uses it. The way it worked 10
> years ago (or so) may have been geeky and computery, but at least it worked
> the same every time.
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Re: [Finale] Lock-Freeze System

[Steve Parker]

I was hoping for an inspired response... but..

AFAIK there really is no solution. The workaround for me involves a strict 
order of editing. It would be great to invoke music or time sig. spacing 
without it destroying what you've already set. 
The very last thing for me is altering bar length and moving elements 
horizontally, then printing to  pdf before saving. 

Steve P. 

> On 3 Oct 2016, at 20:33, Giovanni Andreani  wrote:
> 
> Hello Dave,
> 
> No response yet, as you can probably see. As I understand there's no real 
> solution but 
> maybe a workaround or some set of procedures could help. 
> 
> Giovanni
> 
>> On 3 Oct 2016, at 20:37, Dave Lang  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Giovanni - did you receive any responses to your question? I don't know 
>> how to do it but I am definitely interested in learning. Sometimes Finale 
>> changes the file on its own without telling me (often when a file is opened) 
>> and I would like to be able to prevent it from doing this.
>> 
>> cheers,
>> dave
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Finale] Apparent [MORAL] bug in new Finale

[Steve Parker]

> fixing MAJOR flaws in 
> linked parts that made an otherwise revolutionary 
> tool in finale UTTERLY UNUSABLE for MANY users. 

It’s functionality here copied Igor Engraver which had linked parts from the 
start, way before Finale.
Finale’s still do not work as well.

Steve P.


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Re: [Finale] Tempo tool in Fin 25

[Steve Parker]

Does anyone know if word extensions have stopped randomly disappearing?
Or if playback actually stops when you stop it?

2014.5 still unexpectedly quits every time I actually quit and sometimes shuts 
down with no error message at all - just disappears.

I’ve only just discovered that space-bar clicking starts playback - a 
well-hidden feature!

Steve P.



> On 18 Aug 2016, at 23:53, Lee Actor  wrote:
> 
> Am I the only one who is distressed by the elimination of the Tempo Tool in
> the new version of Finale?  One of the reviews I read referred to it as a
> welcome clean-up of an unnecessary feature that no one used.  Hey, I use it
> all the time!  At least in conjunction with the legacy JW Tempo plugin, as I
> don't trust Human Playback to sculpt tempo changes the way I'd like.
> 
> Can someone who has installed v25 please tell me whether you can at least
> use Edit Tempo in the MIDI menu?  I guess that would be an adequate
> substitute for the Tempo Tool.  And I suppose it's too much to hope that the
> MIDI Tool has finally gotten a long-needed overhaul; as far as I can tell,
> the same bugs have been there for the last 20 years.
> 
> -Lee
> 
> 
> ___
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> http://www.leeactor.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] chord question

[Steve Parker]

From a piano player:
G2#11/B
Very clear and aurally (without context..) coherent. 

Steve P. 

> On 30 Jul 2016, at 21:54, Lon Price  wrote:
> 
> The intent here is to raise the 5th a half step.  If you were a piano player 
> reading a chord chart, would you rather see B-9#5, or G(add2)(#11)/B?  They 
> both spell the exact same notes, but the first example is far easier to 
> recognize.  Or how about this - Dmaj7(sus4)/B.
> 
>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 9:58 AM, GERALD BERG  wrote:
>> 
>> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
>> #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; 
>> background-color:white !important; }  LOL Close enuff for jazz I guess! 
>> From an improv vamping POV it proves convenient, and that may well be all 
>> that is required. But I can't see calling the 6th degree of a minor scale - 
>> Bb here - a #5 in any theory book.
>> Playing the chords in context it sounds like what it is: a minor 6th. 
>> Alone it sounds like Bb/D b5.
>> Thanks for the example! Well found.
>> GJB
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>> 
>> 
>> On Saturday, July 30, 2016, 12:20 PM, Lon Price  wrote:
>> 
>> Check out the Real Book, Vol. 1 (Hal Leonard Edition), page 102 - Dear Old 
>> Stockholm.  The second chord is D-9#5, so that’s at least one example of the 
>> chord being used in a publication.
>> 
>>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 8:52 AM, GERALD BERG  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Problem there is a #5 needs a major third (D# in this case) to sound 
>>> augmented otherwise it just sounds like a perfect 4th. GJB
>>> 
>>>  From: Lon Price 
>>> To: finale@shsu.edu 
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 11:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Finale] chord question
>>> 
>>> B-9#5
>>> 
 On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:39 PM, GERALD BERG  wrote:
 
 blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
 #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; 
 background-color:white !important; }  I think to call something a flat 6th 
 you need a fifth. You have a G/D thing happening.
 
 GJB
 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
 
 
 On Friday, July 29, 2016, 7:12 PM, Haroldo Mauro  wrote:
 
 It sounds like a G Major chord with added 9th and #11 - no 7th
 
 Harold
 
 
 
> On 29/07/2016, at 19:56, martin nickless wrote:
> 
> hi regarding B-9 [b6]
> 
> the notes are from bottom up
> 
> B A D G Db
> 
> thanks
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>>> 
>>> Lon Price
>>> lonpr...@att.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> Lon Price
>> lonpr...@att.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> Lon Price
> lonpr...@att.net
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Portable midi keyboard suggestions

[Steve Parker]

Aka MPK Mini is fantastic.

Steve P.

> On 15 Jul 2016, at 22:33, Lee Dengler  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I am in need of a small, portable midi keyboard that I can use for speedy
> entry when I traveling.  I'd welcome any recommendations any of you may have
> to offer.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> Lee Dengler
> 
> leedeng...@comcast.net  
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Why Is It So Hard to Add Instruments to an Orchestration?

[Steve Parker]

I'm on the latest and I see what you've described a lot. I've never got to the 
bottom of it. Sometimes reload all instruments from the MIDI menu sorts it, but 
often that changes half the instruments to piano. 

Steve P. 

> On 4 Jun 2016, at 08:04, Michael  wrote:
> 
> You’re using Finale 2010. In 2012 the Score Manager was introduced, making 
> adding and editing instruments much easier. 
> 
>> On 4 Jun 2016, at 03:08, Michael Dutka  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, folks. Running 2010 on a Macbook pro.
>> 
>> Orchestrating an opera from a series of piano reductions, which I import
>> into a standard orchestra template, with a standard two-stave piano line
>> between the singers and the strings (then I delete the piano line when I'm
>> done with each number).
>> 
>> This particular number needed a harp, and since the piano score was a means
>> to an end, I just tried to convert the piano line into a harp in the
>> instrument list (GM = Orchestral Harp, but under instrument, it wouldn't
>> let me plug in a harp, it just came out as Instrument 33). It sounded like
>> a flute.
>> 
>> Created a new harp line using New Staves (with setup Wizard). This time it
>> sounded like a harp. Then, in playback, so did the flute. Changed the flute
>> to sound like a flute, and the harp sounded like a flute as well.
>> 
>> Finally, created a whole new orchestra and imported the file, which worked
>> after a bit of manipulation. But why is it so difficult to just add a new
>> instrument? I had the same issues when I tried to add a solo violin line to
>> an orchestration.
>> 
>> Planning to upgrade soon. Is 2012 any better at that? How 'bout 2014?
>> 
>> Any help greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance, and best,
>> 
>> Mike
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Re: [Finale] Missing instrument?

[Steve Parker]

Thanks for the answer. Have done this. Still wonder what went wrong?

Steve P.

> On 26 Nov 2015, at 08:05, Gippo Mercoli  wrote:
> 
> Try inserting instrument you need in score manager, copying and pasting to 
> new, then delete the old one.
> 
> Making a backup copy before :)
> 
> --
> 
> Gippo Mercoli
> www.clubgippo.com
> www.ga-music.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 25 Nov 2015, at 23:28, Steve Parker  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m on 2014.5 and have an instrument that has disappeared from the score.
>> Its part is still there, with its notes.
>> I haven’t hidden empty staves.
>> 
>> Any ideas what I might have done?
>> 
>> Steve P.
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[Finale] Missing instrument?

[Steve Parker]

I’m on 2014.5 and have an instrument that has disappeared from the score.
Its part is still there, with its notes.
I haven’t hidden empty staves.

Any ideas what I might have done?

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] New Bugs 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

100% agree.

> On 22 Nov 2015, at 19:10, Craig Parmerlee  wrote:
> 
> On 11/22/2015 9:09 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve beta tested notation products before and understand that things need 
>> prioritising and that pro users are often not the significant user base but..
> 
> 
> Sure, but I don't see any excuse for:
> 
> - Not fixing the HP problem with overlapping note-on note-off causing 
> notes to go silent
> 
> - not fixing the failure to save music spacing.
> 
> These are quite fundamental and affect nearly every user.  I believe 
> these are both bugs that were introduced in 2014, and among the top 
> reasons for 2014's bad reputation in the market.  I would have thought 
> these would be at the top of the fix list.
> 
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Re: [Finale] New Bugs 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

> The problem must be in the testing cycle.  Users, actual users, not novice or 
> pretend users, seem to only take a few hours or days to turn up problems, 
> problems that should have been detected in alpha tests and never made it to 
> beta.

This is what I don’t get. I’d assumed that a number of the beta testers were 
well known folks on this list.
I’ve beta tested notation products before and understand that things need 
prioritising and that pro users are often not the significant user base but..

2014.5 is better in that it doesn’t crash with dialogue boxes in El Capitan.
Non sticky ties and staff styles are new problems for me - as in 2014 in El 
Capitan was fine here.
Items that won’t delete are a serious problem.
Pause and stop not ending playback is also a pain. I rarely need playback but I 
regularly hit the spacebar by accident…

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] New Bugs 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

Flipped ties keep reverting. Staff styles also keep going back to initial state.

Steve P.

> On 21 Nov 2015, at 19:23, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
> I seem to have a few new bugs in 2014.5.
> 
> Some expressions are un-deletable with the delete key, but delete if selected 
> then deleted from the control-click menu.
> Sometimes stop and pause (and the spacebar) won’t stop playback which 
> continues for a few bars or to the end.
> 
> Finale also seems to be loading up instruments that are not in the score.
> 
> Steve P.
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[Finale] New Bugs 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

I seem to have a few new bugs in 2014.5.

Some expressions are un-deletable with the delete key, but delete if selected 
then deleted from the control-click menu.
Sometimes stop and pause (and the spacebar) won’t stop playback which continues 
for a few bars or to the end.

Finale also seems to be loading up instruments that are not in the score.

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

10.11.2 Beta (15C40a)

The lite version is available and working for me.

Steve P.

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 14:45, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> Steve (Parker) are you running 10.11?
> 
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
>> To confirm.. i had thought I was clicking 2014.5 but repeatedly downloaded
>> the wrong files. Now I’ve downloaded 2014.5 it all works.
>> 
>> Steve (Parker not Fiskum)
>> 
>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 14:16, Robert Patterson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What are the file sizes on the ones in the plugin folder? Are you sure
>> you
>>> restarted Finale? I apologize for asking such basic questions, but I
>>> guarantee you the issue is something basic.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Fiskum, Steve 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello Robert,
>>>> 
>>>> I've downloaded it twice. It came down as Fin14Mac.zip. I've manually
>>>> pointed the program's preferences to the plugin folder even though it
>> was
>>>> correct. Still not able to access.
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 7:40 AM, Robert Patterson <
>>>> rob...@robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The symptoms you are describing are exactly those that would be the
>> case
>>>> if
>>>>> you had the Fin12 version of Patterson Plugins installed in the 14.5
>>>> plugin
>>>>> folder. Please double check. The 14.5 version comes in an archive
>> called
>>>>> "Fin14Mac.zip" or "Fin14Win.zip". The mac versions are roughly twice as
>>>> big
>>>>> as the Fin12 mac versions. Most of them are around 2.2M as opposed to
>> the
>>>>> Fin12 versions that are around 1M.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 4:10 AM, Steve Parker 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Exactly the same for me. I’ve downloaded newest, but only empty
>> folders.
>>>>>> Odd.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Steve P.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 03:36, Fiskum, Steve 
>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello Robert,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I downloaded your latest version of the plugin and I don't see
>> anything
>>>>>> other than a could of subsets called "multimeasured rests" "name
>>>> Utilities"
>>>>>> and "staff sets" but no actual plugins to use. I've restarted, thrown
>>>>>> prefs, etc... When I look I the plugin folder all of the files are
>> dated
>>>>>> Sept. 23, 2015. Mass Copy's version number is 5.01.
>>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 8:10 PM, Robert Patterson <
>>>>>> rob...@robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> For Fin2014.5 you need to download the version of Patterson Plugins
>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Finale 2014.5.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Steve Parker >> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Patterson Plug-ins not showing for me. The folders show up, but
>>>> empty.
>>>>>> Are
>>>>>>>>> they there for you?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The other quirk with it is that I can’t seem to resize the main
>> tool
>>>>>>>>> palette the way that I could before - in two columns but with lower
>>>>>> tools
>>>>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Steve P.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 00:31, Chuck Israels 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So far, so good.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Simple way to take care of FAN files and Plugins (Mac):
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Go

Re: [Finale] 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

To confirm.. i had thought I was clicking 2014.5 but repeatedly downloaded the 
wrong files. Now I’ve downloaded 2014.5 it all works.

Steve (Parker not Fiskum)

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 14:16, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> What are the file sizes on the ones in the plugin folder? Are you sure you
> restarted Finale? I apologize for asking such basic questions, but I
> guarantee you the issue is something basic.
> 
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:
> 
>> Hello Robert,
>> 
>> I've downloaded it twice. It came down as Fin14Mac.zip. I've manually
>> pointed the program's preferences to the plugin folder even though it was
>> correct. Still not able to access.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>>> On Nov 18, 2015, at 7:40 AM, Robert Patterson <
>> rob...@robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The symptoms you are describing are exactly those that would be the case
>> if
>>> you had the Fin12 version of Patterson Plugins installed in the 14.5
>> plugin
>>> folder. Please double check. The 14.5 version comes in an archive called
>>> "Fin14Mac.zip" or "Fin14Win.zip". The mac versions are roughly twice as
>> big
>>> as the Fin12 mac versions. Most of them are around 2.2M as opposed to the
>>> Fin12 versions that are around 1M.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 4:10 AM, Steve Parker 
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Exactly the same for me. I’ve downloaded newest, but only empty folders.
>>>> Odd.
>>>> 
>>>> Steve P.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 03:36, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello Robert,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I downloaded your latest version of the plugin and I don't see anything
>>>> other than a could of subsets called "multimeasured rests" "name
>> Utilities"
>>>> and "staff sets" but no actual plugins to use. I've restarted, thrown
>>>> prefs, etc... When I look I the plugin folder all of the files are dated
>>>> Sept. 23, 2015. Mass Copy's version number is 5.01.
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 8:10 PM, Robert Patterson <
>>>> rob...@robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For Fin2014.5 you need to download the version of Patterson Plugins
>> for
>>>>>> Finale 2014.5.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Steve Parker 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Patterson Plug-ins not showing for me. The folders show up, but
>> empty.
>>>> Are
>>>>>>> they there for you?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The other quirk with it is that I can’t seem to resize the main tool
>>>>>>> palette the way that I could before - in two columns but with lower
>>>> tools
>>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Steve P.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 00:31, Chuck Israels 
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So far, so good.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Simple way to take care of FAN files and Plugins (Mac):
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Go to root level Library/ApplicationSupport/MakeMusic/Finale 2014
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Duplicate 2 folders and move them temporarily to the desktop - FAN
>>>> Files
>>>>>>> and Plugins.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Then move the duplicates into the App Support for 2014.5
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Quit and restart Finale 2014.5 and both Font Annotation and Plugins
>>>> will
>>>>>>> be in the right place and work correctly.  Easy.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> One issue I have with preferences is that adjusting the manuscript
>>>> color
>>>>>>> and the background color causes an interaction.  Adjust one, and it
>>>> affects
>>>>>>> the other.  The manuscript color (I try for a nice ivory) is more
>>>>>>> important, so I am stuck with the default gray background.  Anyo

Re: [Finale] 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

I think I downloaded the wrong ones twice….

Steve P.

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 13:42, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> The symptoms you are describing are exactly those that would be the case if
> you had the Fin12 version of Patterson Plugins installed in the 14.5 plugin
> folder. Please double check. The 14.5 version comes in an archive called
> "Fin14Mac.zip" or "Fin14Win.zip". The mac versions are roughly twice as big
> as the Fin12 mac versions. Most of them are around 2.2M as opposed to the
> Fin12 versions that are around 1M.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 4:10 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
>> Exactly the same for me. I’ve downloaded newest, but only empty folders.
>> Odd.
>> 
>> Steve P.
>> 
>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 03:36, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Robert,
>>> 
>>> I downloaded your latest version of the plugin and I don't see anything
>> other than a could of subsets called "multimeasured rests" "name Utilities"
>> and "staff sets" but no actual plugins to use. I've restarted, thrown
>> prefs, etc... When I look I the plugin folder all of the files are dated
>> Sept. 23, 2015. Mass Copy's version number is 5.01.
>>> Any ideas?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 8:10 PM, Robert Patterson <
>> rob...@robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> For Fin2014.5 you need to download the version of Patterson Plugins for
>>>> Finale 2014.5.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Steve Parker 
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Patterson Plug-ins not showing for me. The folders show up, but empty.
>> Are
>>>>> they there for you?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The other quirk with it is that I can’t seem to resize the main tool
>>>>> palette the way that I could before - in two columns but with lower
>> tools
>>>>> hidden.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Steve P.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 00:31, Chuck Israels  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So far, so good.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Simple way to take care of FAN files and Plugins (Mac):
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Go to root level Library/ApplicationSupport/MakeMusic/Finale 2014
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Duplicate 2 folders and move them temporarily to the desktop - FAN
>> Files
>>>>> and Plugins.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Then move the duplicates into the App Support for 2014.5
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Quit and restart Finale 2014.5 and both Font Annotation and Plugins
>> will
>>>>> be in the right place and work correctly.  Easy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One issue I have with preferences is that adjusting the manuscript
>> color
>>>>> and the background color causes an interaction.  Adjust one, and it
>> affects
>>>>> the other.  The manuscript color (I try for a nice ivory) is more
>>>>> important, so I am stuck with the default gray background.  Anyone else
>>>>> have a similar experience or know a workaround.  This particular color
>>>>> adjustment seems rather finicky.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chuck Israels
>>>>>> cisra...@comcast.net <mailto:cisra...@comcast.net>
>>>>>> (360) 201-3434
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 8831 SE 12th Ave.
>>>>>> Portland Or 97202
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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Re: [Finale] 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

Exactly the same for me. I’ve downloaded newest, but only empty folders.
Odd.

Steve P.

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 03:36, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:
> 
> Hello Robert,
> 
> I downloaded your latest version of the plugin and I don't see anything other 
> than a could of subsets called "multimeasured rests" "name Utilities" and 
> "staff sets" but no actual plugins to use. I've restarted, thrown prefs, 
> etc... When I look I the plugin folder all of the files are dated Sept. 23, 
> 2015. Mass Copy's version number is 5.01. 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve
> 
>> On Nov 17, 2015, at 8:10 PM, Robert Patterson  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> For Fin2014.5 you need to download the version of Patterson Plugins for
>> Finale 2014.5.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Steve Parker  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Patterson Plug-ins not showing for me. The folders show up, but empty. Are
>>> they there for you?
>>> 
>>> The other quirk with it is that I can’t seem to resize the main tool
>>> palette the way that I could before - in two columns but with lower tools
>>> hidden.
>>> 
>>> Steve P.
>>> 
>>>> On 18 Nov 2015, at 00:31, Chuck Israels  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> So far, so good.
>>>> 
>>>> Simple way to take care of FAN files and Plugins (Mac):
>>>> 
>>>> Go to root level Library/ApplicationSupport/MakeMusic/Finale 2014
>>>> 
>>>> Duplicate 2 folders and move them temporarily to the desktop - FAN Files
>>> and Plugins.
>>>> 
>>>> Then move the duplicates into the App Support for 2014.5
>>>> 
>>>> Quit and restart Finale 2014.5 and both Font Annotation and Plugins will
>>> be in the right place and work correctly.  Easy.
>>>> 
>>>> One issue I have with preferences is that adjusting the manuscript color
>>> and the background color causes an interaction.  Adjust one, and it affects
>>> the other.  The manuscript color (I try for a nice ivory) is more
>>> important, so I am stuck with the default gray background.  Anyone else
>>> have a similar experience or know a workaround.  This particular color
>>> adjustment seems rather finicky.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Chuck
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Chuck Israels
>>>> cisra...@comcast.net <mailto:cisra...@comcast.net>
>>>> (360) 201-3434
>>>> 
>>>> 8831 SE 12th Ave.
>>>> Portland Or 97202
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Finale] 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

> 1) Are there any experts in tuba trills here? I need to know if a trill from
> f# (4th line of the bass clef) to the g# above is workable.

Yes, absolutely fine.

Steve P.

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Re: [Finale] 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

Patterson Plug-ins not showing for me. The folders show up, but empty. Are they 
there for you?

The other quirk with it is that I can’t seem to resize the main tool palette 
the way that I could before - in two columns but with lower tools hidden.

Steve P.

> On 18 Nov 2015, at 00:31, Chuck Israels  wrote:
> 
> So far, so good.  
> 
> Simple way to take care of FAN files and Plugins (Mac):
> 
> Go to root level Library/ApplicationSupport/MakeMusic/Finale 2014
> 
> Duplicate 2 folders and move them temporarily to the desktop - FAN Files and 
> Plugins.
> 
> Then move the duplicates into the App Support for 2014.5
> 
> Quit and restart Finale 2014.5 and both Font Annotation and Plugins will be 
> in the right place and work correctly.  Easy.
> 
> One issue I have with preferences is that adjusting the manuscript color and 
> the background color causes an interaction.  Adjust one, and it affects the 
> other.  The manuscript color (I try for a nice ivory) is more important, so I 
> am stuck with the default gray background.  Anyone else have a similar 
> experience or know a workaround.  This particular color adjustment seems 
> rather finicky.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck Israels
> cisra...@comcast.net 
> (360) 201-3434
> 
> 8831 SE 12th Ave.
> Portland Or 97202
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Superficial comment on Finale 2014.5

[Steve Parker]

It confazzled me for 30 seconds too…

Steve P.

> On 17 Nov 2015, at 22:12, Dean Rosenthal  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The oddest first thing I found about Finale 2014.5 (before taking it for a
> drive) is that after reading the list of fixes and improvements, there is
> no indication anywhere on the pop-up menu as to how to download it!
> 
> After some confusion, you discover you have to click on "*learn more*" –
> not a button that would say "*get it now*" or "*download now*". Although it
> does say up top, "do you want to download?" – no telling how you might.
> 
> Finale, when you offer a new version, have a download button in the pop up
> window or explain that you need to click "learn more" to get the new
> version. It's a totally superficial criticism, but a valid one. This is not
> a complaint, however, and I wish us all good luck with this one.
> 
> Dean
> 
> -- 
> Dean Rosenthal
> www.deanrosenthal.org
> www.stonespiece.com
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Re: [Finale] El Capitan update 10.11.2 beta

[Steve Parker]

Articulation working correctly. Expression working correctly for some items.
The thing in common with items that still kill Finale seems to be that they are 
‘duplicated’.
Not 100% on this though..

Steve P.

> On 6 Nov 2015, at 00:32, Michael Mathew  wrote:
> 
> The Expression and Articulation dialogue boxes are now correctly working on 
> my Power Book.
> Anyone else? Michael mathewmmathew_musicp...@yahoo.com 
> http://www.musicengravers.com/cgi-bin/engravers.pl 
> http://oregonmts.com/mathew/
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Re: [Finale] El Capitan with Finale 2K11

[Steve Parker]

Practically unusable.

Expressions tool (and others) immediately shuts finale down - every time.

Steve P.


> On 27 Oct 2015, at 15:49, Lawrence David Eden  wrote:
> 
> I am considering an upgrade to El Capitan from Yosemite but am concerned 
> about this OS with Finale 2K11.
> I am on a late 2012 Mac Mini running at 2.3 ghz, with Core i7 and 8gb Ram.
> When I updated my Mac’s OS to Yosemite, I lost Human Playback in Finale 2K11. 
>  I recall hearing warnings about updating to El Capitan when using Finale 
> 2K14, but I could use some advice about El Capitan and Finale 2K11.  Are 
> there problems I should know about before deciding to upgrade?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Larry Eden
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Re: [Finale] Notes/rests in hidden layers still affect spacing

[Steve Parker]

Agreed..

I really must work out every inch of Jari’s very useful plug-ins.

Steve P.

> On 22 Aug 2015, at 17:33, Darcy James Argue  wrote:
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> I do that already for, e.g., the drum set staff, but doing that for 18 
> additional staves is a serious pain and causes a lot of workflow problems (as 
> does having a separate file for the parts).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - DJA
> -
> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
> 
> On Aug 22, 2015, at 7:25 AM, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
>> If you want to keep it all in the same file, you can duplicate the 
>> instrument and stave and have one in one score for print and the other in 
>> another score for playback.
>> 
>> Steve P.
>> 
>>> On 22 Aug 2015, at 10:57, Peter Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Darcy, presumably the hidden layer is for playback?  My way round 
>>> this 
>>> is to save separate files, one for playback and one for printing with the 
>>> extra notation deleted.  (I also save a separate split file for extracting 
>>> the parts, but that's another story).
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Darcy James Argue" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:26 PM
>>> Subject: [Finale] Notes/rests in hidden layers still affect spacing
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> Is there a way to prevent notes and/or rests hidden with the Blank 
>>>> Notation staff style from affecting music spacing? I have some fairly 
>>>> dense notation in Layer 1, hidden with a staff style, and it's affecting 
>>>> the spacing of Layer 4 (the visible layer).
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> - DJA
>>>> -
>>>> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: [Finale] Notes/rests in hidden layers still affect spacing

[Steve Parker]

If you want to keep it all in the same file, you can duplicate the instrument 
and stave and have one in one score for print and the other in another score 
for playback.

Steve P.

> On 22 Aug 2015, at 10:57, Peter Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Darcy, presumably the hidden layer is for playback?  My way round this 
> is to save separate files, one for playback and one for printing with the 
> extra notation deleted.  (I also save a separate split file for extracting 
> the parts, but that's another story).
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Darcy James Argue" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 8:26 PM
> Subject: [Finale] Notes/rests in hidden layers still affect spacing
> 
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Is there a way to prevent notes and/or rests hidden with the Blank 
>> Notation staff style from affecting music spacing? I have some fairly 
>> dense notation in Layer 1, hidden with a staff style, and it's affecting 
>> the spacing of Layer 4 (the visible layer).
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> - DJA
>> -
>> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
>> 
>> 
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[Finale] Igor to pdf

[Steve Parker]

Does anyone have the ability to save a few Igor files as pdfs.
I’ve been trying to print an old score for hours…

Thanks,

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Swing only affects a few staves

[Steve Parker]

I’ve had similar.
Solved by defining a swing marking and spraying hidden versions of it around.

Steve P.

> On 9 May 2015, at 19:49, Ryan  wrote:
> 
> I've defined a tempo with swing playback, but only a few staves (piano and
> vocals) plays swing. The other instrumental staves (big band) play straight
> 8ths.
> 
> Finale 2012c. Mac
> Garritan Instruments for Finale,
> 
> The expression has a playback definition of Swing value 100.
> I've added a hidden expression to take care of the tempo change in the same
> spot. I've removed that but the result hasn't changed.
> 
> I've tried changing the instruments on the other staves in the Score
> Manager, but any instrument I choose plays straight eighths. I've also
> switched to General MIDI instead of Garritan Instruments.
> 
> On the staves that do swing, a change of instrument still swings.
> 
> How do I get all staves to swing?
> 
> Thanks!
> Ryan
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[Finale] Tab stems

[Steve Parker]

Is there a way to have Tab stems in only some bars?
Never tried to do this before..

Thanks,

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Transferring measure numbering system

[Steve Parker]

Does Robert Patterson’s copy plug-in do this?
I think it might.

Steve P.


> On 1 Apr 2015, at 22:39, Chuck Israels  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Some of my charts are being published by Rob Duboff at JazzLines, and I need 
> to have a measure numbering system on them.  He wants a number centered 
> between each measure at the bottom of the score and at the start of each line 
> on the parts.  I can accomplish all that  nicely.  My question is this: is 
> there a way to transfer that numbering system from file to file rather than 
> having to construct it anew each time?
> 
> Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.
> 
> Chuck 
> 
> Chuck Israels
> cisra...@comcast.net 
> (360) 201-3434
> 
> 8831 SE 12th Ave.
> Portland Or 97202
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th

[Steve Parker]

Hi David,

I’m not saying it’s universal. It seems a general understanding in the UK brass 
band world, but I’ve come across the idea elsewhere.
My childhood brass teacher initially taught it to me (he was a composition PhD, 
fwiw..).
I know of no authority for it.
My example was pathological and should obviously be specified without risk of 
misinterpretation.

I would feel safe writing  p < > in any situation and expect it to swell to mp 
and not mf or ff.

Steve P.

> On 23 Mar 2015, at 21:52, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/23/2015 5:38 PM, Steve Parker wrote:
>> I don’t agree that hairpins and cresc. are always interchangable.
>> In some styles of music a hairpin will take you up or down by one dynamic 
>> marking,
>> whereas ‘cresc.’ or ‘dim.’ can be used to move smoothly from any mark to any 
>> other.
>> This allows distinctions that get messy if the two are collated, for example 
>> pp <  ff when what you require is pp < p  crescendo, then immediately f.
>> 
> [snip]
> 
> I've never heard or been taught that use of the hairpin where it only
> takes you up a single dynamic level if there's nothing indicated.  What
> styles of music make such use of hairpins?  Can you point to some
> authority which supports that?
> 
> I've always been taught and found that if a composer wants a hairpin to
> go up to a specific dynamic then it's wisest for that composer to
> indicate specifically what is wanted.
> 
> So if the composer wants pp Otherwise the hairpin is as open to individual interpretation as much as
> cresc. or dim. is.  Merely giving pp< with no indication is as likely to
> yield an mp or an mf or even an f if nothing is indicated.
> 
> 
> -- 
> David H. Bailey
> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th

[Steve Parker]

I don’t agree that hairpins and cresc. are always interchangable.
In some styles of music a hairpin will take you up or down by one dynamic 
marking,
whereas ‘cresc.’ or ‘dim.’ can be used to move smoothly from any mark to any 
other.
This allows distinctions that get messy if the two are collated, for example pp 
<  ff when what you require is pp < p  crescendo, then immediately f.

Steve P.

> On 23 Mar 2015, at 20:55, Patrick Sheehan  
> wrote:
> 
> COMPLETELY disagree.  
> 
> PUT the dots for all staccato notes and NEVER use the "cresc",
> "decresc"...they are always easily missed / immediately forgotten.  Hairpins
> never fail.
> 
> Patrick J. M. Sheehan
> 
> P. S. Music
> 
> patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com
> -Original Message-
> From: Christopher Smith [mailto:christopher.sm...@videotron.ca] 
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 1:28 PM
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Changing slurred 8ths to 8th-16th
> 
> In my experience, when there is a way to indicate something with text or
> with music notation, music notation wins every time. Musicians for some
> reason I don't quite understand have more trouble understanding "cresc."
> than they do understanding a hairpin, for example. Dots over the notes WILL
> be played short 100% of the time, whereas the indication "stacc." may or may
> not be correctly executed on sight reading. For that reason alone, i would
> choose a musical notation over a text indication.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
> On Sun Mar 22, at SundayMar 22 12:00 PM, timothy price wrote:
> 
>> Just finished reading "Score Rehearsal Preparation" by Gary Stith in which
> he remarks about how composers might simply use text to clarify any possible
> ambiguity in the score. He invites text notes so that there is no time
> wasted in discussion of the intent of the score. .. simply tell us what you
> intended. This can be a few words on the staff of instrument notation, or at
> the end of the score in a section of issues about the score and how to play
> it.  Seems good to me.
>> 
>> tim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>> 
> 
> Why not just say "non portato"  and leave it at that
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Finale] Templates

[Steve Parker]

Robert Patterson has kindly completely sorted this for me. His plugin solved it 
without needing to redo anything.

Steve P.

> On 27 Feb 2015, at 14:09, Craig Parmerlee  wrote:
> 
> Use MusicXML !!!
> 
> I haven't experienced losing items, but I had all sorts of HP problems 
> with an old template I had to use on a project.
> 
> I exported to MusicXML and re-imported into Finale 2014.  (Actually I 
> think I did both export and import on 2014)  That solved the problems. 
> Obviously there were some data structures in the .MUS file that Finale 
> 2014 was not handling correctly, which I consider a bug, but the 
> MusicXML conversion gives you a clean start.
> 
> It isn't perfect.  You will still have to go back and tweak some things 
> in your template, but I was surprised how close it got.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/18/2015 12:31 PM, Steve Parker wrote:
>> I have a small but time consuming problem with items disappearing.
>> Tech support have told me it is because I’m using a template made in a 
>> Finale version before 2014 and that I should create new Templates in 2014.
>> Almost every setting is tweaked as well as a lot of carefully placed items, 
>> so this seems an overwhelming job for every template that I use.
>> 
>> Is there any way of printing the settings or is there a file hidden 
>> somewhere that I can raid for text of the templates’ settings?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Steve P.
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Finale] key signature

[Steve Parker]

'Courtesy Key Signature'
Sometimes ‘Cancellation of Outgoing Key Signature’

Steve P.


> On 21 Feb 2015, at 10:23, dc  wrote:
> 
> Good morning,
> 
> Is there a term in English for the key signature that appears at the end 
> of a movement (and at the end of the page) for the following movement or 
> section?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Templates

[Steve Parker]

Two things. 
Firstly, the name of the score in score manager doesn't survive closing the 
file. 
Secondly, text boxes with inserts disappear when the file is closed and 
re-opened. 
I couldn't get further with tech support. These things didn't happen with new 
files created from the wizard and they did happen with template-created files 
from 2008 and 2012. 
I would have thought that Finale would be interested in what was going on, but 
it seemed not. 
I'm not sure what could be up with the templates other than settings. 
They can't all have corrupted in the same way overnight. 
The work to start them all again is depressing.. There are some jobs that will 
just not be worth the work. 

Steve P. 


> On 18 Feb 2015, at 22:10, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> Personally I am skeptical that the upgraded templates are the source of
> your problem. It's possible, I suppose, but I would want more than the word
> of a tech support person to believe it. When you say things are
> disappearing, what does that mean?
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Steve Parker  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m also worried that whatever is causing the disappearance of items is
>> going to get transferred by importing my libraries.
>> 
>> Steve P.
>> 
>>>> On 18 Feb 2015, at 22:01, Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre <
>>> yorkmaster...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Don't document options save to libraries?
>>> 
>>> I get my line parameters and defined expressions, when I load my
>> customized library to scratch documents.
>>> 
>>> One aspect not loaded to library is line thickness of smart shape lines.
>>> 
>>> Klaus
>>> 
>>> Sendt fra min iPad
>>> 
>>>> Den 18/02/2015 kl. 22.44 skrev Steve Parker :
>>>> 
>>>> I was dreading that that might be the solution..
>>>> I was hoping that Finale might store them in a text file somewhere…
>>>> 
>>>> Are there any gotchas?
>>>> I need libraries, document settings, details of any page items..
>> anything else?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> Steve P.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 18 Feb 2015, at 22:36, SN jef chippewa <
>> shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> when i had to do this, i simply took screenshots of every possible
>>>>> page in the document options, opened my finale doc in the main screen
>>>>> and the images on my smaller screen and hacked through transferring
>>>>> the settings one by one. yuck.
>>>>> 
>>>>> thought i was being clever by naming all the screenshots (ties_short,
>>>>> ties_medium, etc.) - i was to a degree, but should have prefixed
>>>>> numbers to them (1a_xxx, 1b_xxx, ...) so they would be listed
>>>>> alphabetically corresponding to the order in which they appear in the
>>>>> dialogue tabs
>>> 
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Re: [Finale] Templates

[Steve Parker]

I’m also worried that whatever is causing the disappearance of items is going 
to get transferred by importing my libraries.

Steve P.

> On 18 Feb 2015, at 22:01, Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre  
> wrote:
> 
> Don't document options save to libraries?
> 
> I get my line parameters and defined expressions, when I load my customized 
> library to scratch documents.
> 
> One aspect not loaded to library is line thickness of smart shape lines.
> 
> Klaus 
> 
> Sendt fra min iPad
> 
>> Den 18/02/2015 kl. 22.44 skrev Steve Parker :
>> 
>> I was dreading that that might be the solution.. 
>> I was hoping that Finale might store them in a text file somewhere…
>> 
>> Are there any gotchas?
>> I need libraries, document settings, details of any page items.. anything 
>> else?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Steve P.
>> 
>>> On 18 Feb 2015, at 22:36, SN jef chippewa  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> when i had to do this, i simply took screenshots of every possible 
>>> page in the document options, opened my finale doc in the main screen 
>>> and the images on my smaller screen and hacked through transferring 
>>> the settings one by one. yuck.
>>> 
>>> thought i was being clever by naming all the screenshots (ties_short, 
>>> ties_medium, etc.) - i was to a degree, but should have prefixed 
>>> numbers to them (1a_xxx, 1b_xxx, ...) so they would be listed 
>>> alphabetically corresponding to the order in which they appear in the 
>>> dialogue tabs
>>> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] Templates

[Steve Parker]

I was dreading that that might be the solution.. 
I was hoping that Finale might store them in a text file somewhere…

Are there any gotchas?
I need libraries, document settings, details of any page items.. anything else?

Thanks!

Steve P.

> On 18 Feb 2015, at 22:36, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> when i had to do this, i simply took screenshots of every possible 
> page in the document options, opened my finale doc in the main screen 
> and the images on my smaller screen and hacked through transferring 
> the settings one by one. yuck.
> 
> thought i was being clever by naming all the screenshots (ties_short, 
> ties_medium, etc.) - i was to a degree, but should have prefixed 
> numbers to them (1a_xxx, 1b_xxx, ...) so they would be listed 
> alphabetically corresponding to the order in which they appear in the 
> dialogue tabs
> 
> -- 
> 
> NEW RELEASE!!! neueweise -- fonts for new music and traditional notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts
> 
> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  translation  +  arts management
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
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[Finale] Templates

[Steve Parker]

I have a small but time consuming problem with items disappearing.
Tech support have told me it is because I’m using a template made in a Finale 
version before 2014 and that I should create new Templates in 2014.
Almost every setting is tweaked as well as a lot of carefully placed items, so 
this seems an overwhelming job for every template that I use.

Is there any way of printing the settings or is there a file hidden somewhere 
that I can raid for text of the templates’ settings?

Thanks,

Steve P.


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Re: [Finale] Ideas for drum set notation - multimeasure rests

[Steve Parker]

For long periods of the same rhythm I use slashes, 8 bars a line or whatever is 
structurally relevant, structural clues with thick barlines, big numbers at end 
of line (in brackets) to indicate how many bars have passed.

Steve P.

> On 23 Jan 2015, at 15:06, Craig Parmerlee  wrote:
> 
> In most of the big band charts I write, for the drummer I write a 
> measure or two with the suggest beat pattern, then turn the rest of the 
> measures into staff style Z so they will appear as a multi-measure rest 
> up to the next double bar.  If there are any important punches, I will 
> typically show those measures with slash notation and write the horn 
> rhythms in notes above the staff, letting the drummer figure out how 
> best to play that.  If there is an exact part I need played, I will show 
> those measures.  For example, there may be a particular tom-tom riff or 
> there may be a place where drums hit on 1 and then drop out.  I show all 
> those measures explicitly.
> 
> But my question is about the sections where the drummer is just carrying 
> along.  I show those as multi-measure rests and put the indication 
> "(Continue)" above the MM rest.  This gives a really clean, compact part 
> and allows the drummer to play more artistically instead of trying to 
> read a very cluttered chart.  But there is an ambiguity with the MM 
> rests.  I am using the same look whether the drummer is continuing to 
> play a pattern or whether the drums are out for a section.  My 
> "(Continue)" marking attempts to clarify that, but I wonder how others 
> deal with this.
> 
> I think what I'd really like is two different visual styles of MM rest 
> -- one for playing and one for resting.
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Re: [Finale] 2014

[Steve Parker]

Try Preferences: Edit: Respect Instrument Ranges

??

Steve P.


> On 23 Jan 2015, at 19:29, Don Hart  wrote:
> 
> Hi Everyone--Happy New Year,
> 
> Got to the end of a bigger project and like a few others on this list,
> decided to break out 2014 (10.9.5 on a MacBook Air).  I thought converting
> a string quintet arrangement to string orchestra would be a good job to
> figure out newer aspects of the program but not get "in too deep" while I'm
> checking things out.
> 
> A lot of things went as expected or better, but I thought I'd bring up a
> problem I experienced.  I often enter hairpins in one line for a section of
> music and copy them from that line into other parts. Last night when I was
> doing this, Finale randomly lowered the music that was receiving the
> hairpins an octave--in other words, most lines were OK, but some
> inexplicably wound up transposed down an octave.  Only thing checked in the
> Edit Filter window was Smart Shapes (Assigned to Beats), which was as close
> as I could get to the Smart Shapes (Assigned to Measures) that I used tor
> this purpose in 2011.
> 
> Haven't noticed this being brought up here--has anyone else experienced
> this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Don Hart
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Re: [Finale] fin.mac.2014

[Steve Parker]

And the attached hairpins save a ton of time!

Steve P.

> On 18 Jan 2015, at 16:56, Linda Worsley  wrote:
> 
> I think what happens is that one gets used to the way a software works
> (especially when it works well) and when menus change, the look changes, or
> tools are renamed, it feels unfamiliar and takes getting used to.
> 
> I made the mistake of loading up 2014 in the middle of a project, and has
> slowed me almost to a stop while I get used to it.  I'll get used to it...
> There are enough of the old "moves" and menus left that there isn't quite
> as much confusion as there was when I went to 2012.  Overall, because I am
> putting a lot of my old pen or pencil scores into Finale, I'm reminded how
> lucky I am to have this software at all.
> 
> Linda
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Re: [Finale] fin.mac.2014

[Steve Parker]

I’d long been used to the blue one.
It would be nice to still have the option.

Steve P.

> On 18 Jan 2015, at 11:57, Darcy James Argue  wrote:
> 
> The old palettes were definitely broke — horrid and unprofessional-looking. 
> YMMV but I think the new palette is a huge UI improvement.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - DJA
> -
> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
> 
> On Jan 17, 2015, at 11:25 PM, Linda Worsley  wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:
>> 
>>> No. Ugh!!
>>> 
>> 
>> Double ugh!  Why do they keep "fixing" finale interface when it ain't
>> broke.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Finale] part/score name insert

[Steve Parker]

Well, Finale seems to be having a funny New Year for me..

As well as the score and part names always disappearing, I now have space 
systems evenly that positions systems increasing close as you get to the bottom 
of the page.
I also have some bars where the notes all collide (in single instrumental 
parts) and note, beat, or music spacing make no difference. Re-inputting the 
exact same notes fixes it.

What have I done?

Steve P.


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Re: [Finale] part/score name insert

[Steve Parker]

I’ve just tried tabbing out of it. When I reopened it had retained everything 
but the score name and my score and part names had gone from the score and 
parts.
2014d v.5545 Mac 10.10.1

Thanks,

Steve P.

> On 31 Dec 2014, at 23:19, John Blane  wrote:
> 
> Not sure what version you're using but I find all of those fields in the File 
> info section very quirky unless you *tab* out of the field once you've 
> entered it.
> 
> On Dec 31, 2014, at 5:12 PM, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
>> I’ve asked this before and tried the suggestions and put in a support 
>> request… but maybe someone has sussed it.
>> 
>> Input name for Score in Score Manager.
>> Create text box with Part/Score name insert.
>> Lovely!
>> Close file.
>> Text box and insert gone.
>> Actual name for score in Score Manager also gone.
>> Arghh!
>> 
>> This probably cost me a day in December, having to redo names before 
>> printing every time..
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> And a Happy New Year!
>> 
>> Steve P.
>> 
>> 
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[Finale] part/score name insert

[Steve Parker]

I’ve asked this before and tried the suggestions and put in a support request… 
but maybe someone has sussed it.

Input name for Score in Score Manager.
Create text box with Part/Score name insert.
Lovely!
Close file.
Text box and insert gone.
Actual name for score in Score Manager also gone.
Arghh!

This probably cost me a day in December, having to redo names before printing 
every time..

Best wishes,
And a Happy New Year!

Steve P.


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Re: [Finale] Locked systems

[Steve Parker]

On a side note and if you’d not come across it:

Jari’s ‘JW Copy Part Layout’ plugin is tremendous and saves a huge amount of 
time.

Steve P.

> On 30 Dec 2014, at 20:09, Aaron Sherber  wrote:
> 
> I've done that and *still* had Finale print a page differently than it 
> appears on screen. Not often, though.
> 
> Aaron.
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/29/2014 7:06 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 4:00 PM, Williams, Jim  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Maybe I ought to lock everything before printing!
>> Of course you should!
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> - DJA
>> -
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Re: [Finale] Score/Part name insert

[Steve Parker]

Thanks for the reply Robert.
I shall try these.

Steve P.

> On 7 Dec 2014, at 22:50, Robert Patterson  wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> I have been having similarly baffling things change on me, and I traced
> part of the problem to this:
> 
> 1. Try completely closing out of Finale and then open the file fresh and
> save your insert. Then close completely out of Finale and reopen the file.
> Does your insert still vanish?
> 
> 2. If closing down Finale between saves solved your problem, then try
> running any plugin on a part. I used Move Rests. The only requirement is
> that the plugin must change something. See if that causes your part name to
> vanish.
> 
> I discovered yesterday that running any plugin in part view would corrupt
> my staff full name settings. Heaven knows what else it might be corrupting
> but that's what I noticed. This is a problem only in Fin14 (c & d). It
> probably only comes into play when your document reaches some threshold of
> complexity.
> 
> I have seen a similar problem, even in Fin12. (I don't have any reason to
> believe it is connected to the part-plugin problem, but I can't rule it
> out.) I would reach a point in certain files where I simply could not add a
> text block to a page. The way I worked around that problem was to use my
> Page Title Mover plugin to move titles from a scratch doc onto the pages of
> my real doc.
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
>> Is anyone else having trouble with text boxes in 2014d?
>> 
>> ‘Part/Score Name’ insert disappears completely if I close and re-open a
>> file?
>> 
>> Driving me nuts!
>> 
>> Steve P.
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[Finale] Score/Part name insert

[Steve Parker]

Is anyone else having trouble with text boxes in 2014d?

‘Part/Score Name’ insert disappears completely if I close and re-open a file?

Driving me nuts!

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] from Finale's new CEO

[Steve Parker]

" The first order of business will be to shore up and modernize the systems and 
processes we use for building Finale, which means we are not racing to release 
another upgrade. Look for us to deliver several more incremental updates over 
the coming year to improve stability and speed. We’re going to take the time to 
get it right. Quality is paramount; it leads to trust, and I’m focused on 
earning it. It will take time, and it will take action, and it will take some 
patience on everyone’s part.”

:-)

Steve P.

> On 7 Dec 2014, at 05:49, David McKay  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for that link. I'd have been completely out of the loop if you hadn't 
> posted it, Ryan. 
> David McKay 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 7 Dec 2014, at 4:20 pm, Ryan  wrote:
>> 
>> I haven't seen this posted to this forum yet, so here it is.
>> (If it was posted already, I apologize.)
>> 
>> http://www.finalemusic.com/blog/meet-gear-fisher-makemusic-ceo/
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Re: [Finale] Finale Digest, Vol 136, Issue 16

[Steve Parker]

> Surely this issue has something to do with the context. Highly chromatic 
> music requires more frequent courtesy accidentals, and once you reach a 
> certain point, parentheses simply become needless clutter.

Absolutely. Complex or non-tonal or non-ET is a different case.
But these things are not often sight-read at the coal-face. Similarly, in a pop 
context a chart in F major with a chord of A# doesn’t bother me (much..) 
because it’s par for the course.

> Also, as Chris says, parentheses make accidentals more difficult to read. 

The opposite of my experience.
When someone has brought some unknown Sondheim to an audition, there are better 
things to do than to keep skipping back in the measure to see why the Db I was 
about to play has an accidental on it. I register the parentheses as a ‘check’.

> I also think the "looking back" problem is overstated.

Not from me. I find a big difference in reading one over the other.
I don’t play either wrong, but then I’m used to sight-reading all sorts of 
flysh*t that no-one would ever recommend as good practice.

> I'm with Michael — this is largely a non-issue. It may cause annoyance to 
> some but, unlike a missing courtesy, it doesn't generally cause mistakes.

That is a pretty low bar in most contexts.

Steve P.

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Re: [Finale] Finale Digest, Vol 136, Issue 16

[Steve Parker]

I do a lot of sight-reading too, including an increasing amount of stuff 
printed for audition from the internet in keys like E#..
Cautionarys without parentheses cause my eyes to skip back and check the key or 
the previous accidental .

My preference is:

If the note is changed by the accidental, then obviously no parentheses.
If the note is not changed by the accidental then it is not really an 
‘accidental’ and should be parenthesised.

Clearly, there are modern (and ancient) situations where the rules are 
different - in 17-limit JI I have accidentals on every note, no parentheses.

Steve P.


> On 29 Nov 2014, at 05:32, Craig Parmerlee  wrote:
> 
> With courtesy accidentals, either parenthesize them or leave them out. 
> Anything else is a hostile act, IMHO. It is hard enough to sight-read 
> accidentals accurately without the engraver placing land mines in the way.

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Re: [Finale] Finale Digest, Vol 136, Issue 16

[Steve Parker]

Or for those that wish their music to be sight-read safely during a session 
costing £20,000+.
And a dozen other reasons.
Music is not an extreme sport where the ‘real men’ don’t use safety kit…..

Steve P.

> On 26 Nov 2014, at 18:45, Patrick Sheehan  
> wrote:
> 
> Let's hope so!  Cautionary (and courtesy) accidentals are for the weak!
> 
> patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
> finale-requ...@shsu.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:00 PM
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Finale Digest, Vol 136, Issue 16
> 
> Send Finale mailing list submissions to
>   finale@shsu.edu
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Re: [Finale] Music Editor for Macs

[Steve Parker]

Twisted Wave is fantastic.

Steve P.

> On 28 Nov 2014, at 08:50, Chris Bell  wrote:
> 
> Otherwise GarageBand is free.
> 
> / C
> 
> On Nov 5, 2014, at 1:59 AM, Graeme Gerrard wrote:
> 
>> ? I am running Yosemite and Audacity 2.0.2.0 still seems to work fine.
>> 
>>> On 4 Nov 2014, at 10:30 pm, Thurletta Brown-Gavins >>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> After recording on my Zoom H2, I've been using Audacity to process  
>>> the .wav sound file for editing and burning onto CD. Unfortunately,  
>>> support for Audacity ends at Mac 10.9, so I'll be without a  
>>> solution once (if) I upgrade to 10.10 Yosemite. Have any Mac users  
>>> found a replacement music-editing program for Audacity? I don't  
>>> suppose this is a hidden feature of Finale 2014 I haven't found  
>>> yet...
>>> 
>>> Thurletta Brown-Gavins
>>> 
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Re: [Finale] Music Editor for Macs

[Steve Parker]

I use Twisted Wave.

Steve P.

> On 10 Nov 2014, at 18:27, Thurletta Brown-Gavins  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the tip, John. I'll check that out as well.
> Thurletta
> 
> --
> 
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 John Roberts wrote:
> 
>> I have used Amadeus for quite a while now. Like some others not free, 
>> but I like it a lot better than Audacity and it was worth it to me.
>> John
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Re: [Finale] Strange slur bug in 2014 Mac

[Steve Parker]

My arpeggio line is broken and straight. The duplicate slurs are not even 
selectable.
Never had either of these before.

Steve P.

On 22 Oct 2014, at 17:34, Christopher Smith  
wrote:

> Try hitting redraw (cmd-D in Mac) to see if it is just a screen  
> artifact. I get those a lot in many different tools.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> On 22-Oct-14, at 22-Oct-14  11:45 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
> 
>> I’m having a curious problem with slurs in layers other than 1  
>> sticking if I flip, so I end up with two.
>> The original one is not selectable.
>> 
>> Any one else?
>> 
>> Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Strange slur bug in 2014 Mac

[Steve Parker]

That has always worked before but not now. Look fine when selected but not on 
redraw.

Steve P.

On 23 Oct 2014, at 00:41, Christopher Smith  
wrote:

> Oh, well, that's always been the case. Nudge the end (either end) left or 
> right a bit to tighten it up again. It's because it's actually made up of one 
> tilde-like glyph that repeats like a dashed line.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
> On Wed Oct 22, at WednesdayOct 22 1:56 PM, Steve Parker wrote:
> 
>> Found another oddity.. 
>> The wavy line for a piano spread chord seems to split up.
>> 
>> Steve P.
>> 
>> On 22 Oct 2014, at 18:35, John Roberts  wrote:
>> 
>>> Doesn't it disappear with a redraw?
>>> JR
>>> 
>>> On 10/22/14 11:45 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
>>>> I’m having a curious problem with slurs in layers other than 1 sticking if 
>>>> I flip, so I end up with two.
>>>> The original one is not selectable.
>>>> 
>>>> Any one else?
>>>> 
>>>> Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Strange slur bug in 2014 Mac

[Steve Parker]

Found another oddity.. 
The wavy line for a piano spread chord seems to split up.

Steve P.

On 22 Oct 2014, at 18:35, John Roberts  wrote:

> Doesn't it disappear with a redraw?
> JR
> 
> On 10/22/14 11:45 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
>> I’m having a curious problem with slurs in layers other than 1 sticking if I 
>> flip, so I end up with two.
>> The original one is not selectable.
>> 
>> Any one else?
>> 
>> Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] Strange slur bug in 2014 Mac

[Steve Parker]

Hi John,

No!

Steve

On 22 Oct 2014, at 18:35, John Roberts  wrote:

> Doesn't it disappear with a redraw?
> JR
> 
> On 10/22/14 11:45 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
>> I’m having a curious problem with slurs in layers other than 1 sticking if I 
>> flip, so I end up with two.
>> The original one is not selectable.
>> 
>> Any one else?
>> 
>> Steve P.
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[Finale] Strange slur bug in 2014 Mac

[Steve Parker]

I’m having a curious problem with slurs in layers other than 1 sticking if I 
flip, so I end up with two.
The original one is not selectable.

Any one else?

Steve P.
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Re: [Finale] News update on MakeMusic move to Boulder

[Steve Parker]

> talking more about partially 
> thought-out implementations in this case.

I still think that Finale (and Sibelius) are still screwing up implementations 
of things like linked parts and magnetic layout that Igor Engraver had right 
decades ago.
Igor had (severe) problems but was designed from the startin a non-modal, 
grab-anything-and-move-it, 
link-exactly-what-you-want fashion.

Finale and Sibelius read the ad copy from Igor about these features but no one 
ever actually
used the program for long enough to understand the beauty of these concepts or 
why they worked so well.

Steve P.
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