Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Random Liegh via Freedos-user]

On 3/15/2020 11:08 AM, Rugxulo wrote:


My 486s, back in the day, were quite slow and underpowered (Sx/25 with
either 4 or 8 MB RAM and small hard drives [170 MB or 250 MB or
such]). In some ways, I wish I had one again (in fully working order),
just to benchmark stuff.

It seems like one of the (unstated?) goals of 86Box is realistic timing, 
and it provides several variations of the 486 you can use.


It's not the real thing, but could that be an option for benchmarking?



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[michael]

Is the problem not having floppy capability on real hardware?  Maybe you have 
USB but not ATAPI cdrom?

Freedos as far as I know does not support USB let alone USB floppy drives.  If 
you don't have IDE or you
have an external USB drive such as a DVD burner...  that doesn't help you get 
it installed.

Floppy drives are gradually being abandoned and unless you are a pro at fixing 
them when they break and you
have a manufacturer making new floppy disks, not old stock sitting in a 
warehouse somewhere...

What implications does modifying Freedos to support USB floppy drives have?  
How about using a Zip Atapi or USB drive as a floppy drive?  I think BIOS 
support of floppy alternatives is spotty at best.  DOS environments typically 
expect BIOS to provide floppy support.  If you intend to replace floppies with 
what you have, say a USB floppy drive, you need a software driver for Freedos, 
MS-DOS, DR-Dos, PC-DOS...


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[dmccunney]

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 7:28 AM ZB  wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 12:47:33AM -0500, Rugxulo wrote:
>
> > It's amazing to me that so many people still use 486s with FreeDOS.
>
> For most DOS applications 486 is kind of "numbercruncher" - and, besides,
> if you use Intel 486 CPU you'll get fanless "silent PC" (AMD 486 requires
> fan; I mean at least these faster 100/120 MHz versions, nut sure what about
> slower ones). Having, say, 32 MB RAM at your disposal - what more you can
> need for DOS?

IIRC, the 486 was essentially a 386 with floating point math processor
added on the same die, instead of having to use a separate chip in
separate socket.  (And if memory serves, there were cheaper 486 models
that disabled the FPU and what you had was essentially a 386. Many
folks simply didn't need on-chip floating point.  The calculations
could be done in software, and hardware just made it quicker.)

You certainly don't need 32MB RAM for DOS itself.  If you have the
software, you can use some of the RAM for disk cache and RAMdisk, but
most will be untouched.

> Today typically we've got around 32 GB RAM in our machines - 1000x more -
> just to move bloat, created using "modern technologies", back and forth
> within that vast space

I'm not sure how typical that is.  I'm configuring a new desktop at
the moment, and it came with 16GB.  It can be *expanded* to 32GB, but
I have no need.  (The machine it replaces had 8GB, expandable to 32GB,
and I didn't use all of that.)

If I were a developer trying to build from a large local source tree,
and wanted the build to complete in a reasonable time, I'd certainly
want 32GB RAM, or even more (but I'd need a fancy motherboard to do
it.)  Likewise if I was doing demanding stuff in Photoshop, which
wants all the RAM you can give it, or video editing.

The sweet spot for Win10 appears to be 6GB RAM.  It will use more if
you have it, but 6GB is where you start and performance on basic tasks
will be reasonable.

But depending upon what you do, much of that stuff is *not* bloat.

DOS grew up in the days when hardware was expensive and machines it
would run on would be limited.  Hardware is now cheap and getting
cheaper.  Lots of things can be done now because of that. The previous
limits were cost based, and there were things you might like to do but
simply couldn't afford to.  Now you can.

(A correspondent elsewhere talked about migrating a database server he
administered from 16TB of SATA HDs to 16TB of SSDs.  He saw an order
of magnitude performance increase.  The DBMS *screamed* through
queries and updates.  The significant point was that costs for NAND
Flash and the SSDs that used it had dropped to the point that he could
*afford* to make the switch. We are only seeing the tip of that
iceberg.)

Software growth is a part of that.  Because hardware is cheap, there
isn't need to optimize for *size*.  And optimization is what the
compiler does for you, and does it better than you can.  Overly clever
programmer attempts to optimize their own code can fool the compiler
and result in bigger, slower code.  There are folks still concerned
with size, but they are developing in the embedded space for IoT
devices and the like, and using a different set of toolchains,
provided by the HW vendors for developing on their devices.

The scarce resource is developer time, and anything that can make
developer's jobs easier and them more productive is looked on with
favor.

I date from the days when the original IBM PC with (up to) 640KB RAM,
CGA graphics, and dual 5" 360KB floppies were first appearing on
corporate desktops as engines to run Lotus 123.  I learned a fair
number of tips and tricks to wring the most of of the machines I used.

I'm *very* happy to live now and not have to do that any more.  I play
with DOS and DOS apps for fun, as a hobby, in spare free time.  Actual
work gets done elsewhere.  Most of what I do on a daily basis simply
can't be *done* in DOS.  And none of what is on my machine can be
classified as "bloat".  It needs to be that big to do its job, and I
have the resources to support it and don't care.

> Zbigniew
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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 6:28 AM ZB  wrote:
>
> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 12:47:33AM -0500, Rugxulo wrote:
> > It's amazing to me that so many people still use 486s with FreeDOS.
>
> For most DOS applications 486 is kind of "numbercruncher"

My 486s, back in the day, were quite slow and underpowered (Sx/25 with
either 4 or 8 MB RAM and small hard drives [170 MB or 250 MB or
such]). In some ways, I wish I had one again (in fully working order),
just to benchmark stuff.

Oh, have you seen this? I haven't tried it, but it sounds cool:

* https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/ao486_MiSTer

> if you use Intel 486 CPU you'll get fanless "silent PC" (AMD 486 requires
> fan; I mean at least these faster 100/120 MHz versions, nut sure what about
> slower ones).

There's many low-powered (but powerful) cpus nowadays, too. So it's
not just old 800 Mhz VIA cpus or Geode or even ARM or whatever. This
(Intel) Chromebook is fairly cool (compared to my much older laptop).
I'm no engineer, but die shrinks in cpu processes have shown great
benefit. (But there are way too many cpus, it's hard to know which is
optimal for certain tasks.)

> Having, say, 32 MB RAM at your disposal - what more you can need for DOS?

Very naive (no offense). But I agree that you shouldn't need gigs just
to crunch some numbers. I can easily use that much in DOS (and much
more). Whether it's a good idea or not is a different problem.

> Today typically we've got around 32 GB RAM in our machines - 1000x more -
> just to move bloat, created using "modern technologies", back and forth
> within that vast space

Actually, I keep seeing 4 GB RAM machines for sale. I guess it's to
keep costs down? I wouldn't go below that, especially for x64. Maybe
that's a good thing? Maybe it helps us optimize instead of always
wasting. It's not that I demand more, but having an underpowered
machine is annoying.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[ZB]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 12:47:33AM -0500, Rugxulo wrote:

> It's amazing to me that so many people still use 486s with FreeDOS.

For most DOS applications 486 is kind of "numbercruncher" - and, besides,
if you use Intel 486 CPU you'll get fanless "silent PC" (AMD 486 requires
fan; I mean at least these faster 100/120 MHz versions, nut sure what about
slower ones). Having, say, 32 MB RAM at your disposal - what more you can
need for DOS?

Today typically we've got around 32 GB RAM in our machines - 1000x more -
just to move bloat, created using "modern technologies", back and forth
within that vast space
-- 
regards,
Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Mallory Worlton]

I booted from floppy

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 02:45 tom ehlert  wrote:

> > Regrettably, I ran into another problem: apparently the CD I burned was
> > roughed up too badly for the installation to complete.  It died while
> > trying to install UDVD2, due to a read error.  And that was my last
> > CD-R.
> as you don't describe in detail what you did we can only guess :<<
>
> most likely you try to boot from the CD, where the BIOS provides
> access to the CD.
>
> during boot, you load UDVD2, and get this read error.
>
> this is normal. UDVD2 (and any other DVD driver) kills the BIOS
> driver, and the DVD is no longer accessible.
>
> no need to burn another CD-R; you will get the same result
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[tom ehlert]

> Regrettably, I ran into another problem: apparently the CD I burned was
> roughed up too badly for the installation to complete.  It died while 
> trying to install UDVD2, due to a read error.  And that was my last 
> CD-R. 
as you don't describe in detail what you did we can only guess :<<

most likely you try to boot from the CD, where the BIOS provides
access to the CD.

during boot, you load UDVD2, and get this read error.

this is normal. UDVD2 (and any other DVD driver) kills the BIOS
driver, and the DVD is no longer accessible.

no need to burn another CD-R; you will get the same result

Tom




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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Ralf Quint]

On 3/13/2020 10:52 PM, Mallory Worlton wrote:
Regrettably, I ran into another problem: apparently the CD I burned 
was roughed up too badly for the installation to complete.  It died 
while trying to install UDVD2, due to a read error.  And that was my 
last CD-R.  So I'll have to go buy some more and make a new one. 


Just a tip for burning CD-Rs for use with older computers/CD-ROM drives 
is NOT to burn those discs at the highest speed of the drive in the 
burning computer, rather use the slowest speed possible, as that 
increases the chances to be read on an older drive...


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Mallory Worlton]

Regrettably, I ran into another problem: apparently the CD I burned was 
roughed up too badly for the installation to complete.  It died while 
trying to install UDVD2, due to a read error.  And that was my last 
CD-R.  So I'll have to go buy some more and make a new one.


On 2020-03-13 10:47 p.m., Rugxulo wrote:

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 6:42 PM Mallory Worlton  wrote:

My computer is a Dell Optiplex 433/L with 16 MB of RAM and a 486
processor.

It's amazing to me that so many people still use 486s with FreeDOS.
Those must've been built like tanks. (Mine, sadly, is disconnected.)


It has a 270 MB hard drive, a floppy drive, and a CD drive.
The CD drive is connected through my sound card, a Sound Blaster Pro 2.
The installer can't seem to find my CD drive.  How can I fix this?

I see you've already figured this out (found drivers), but just for
future reference for others:

* http://btmgr.sf.net/

"
Booting from CD-ROM
Smart BootManager supports booting from almost all kinds of IDE ATAPI
CD-ROM, including PCMCIA CD-ROMs. You can let BIOS boot from C: only
and assign a password for it, then you can boot from CD-ROM with Smart
BootManager easily, while other guy couldn't. If you have a Laptop
computer with a special PCMCIA CD-ROM which BIOS does not support
booting from, Smart BootManager can help you make it easy!
"


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 6:42 PM Mallory Worlton  wrote:
>
> My computer is a Dell Optiplex 433/L with 16 MB of RAM and a 486
> processor.

It's amazing to me that so many people still use 486s with FreeDOS.
Those must've been built like tanks. (Mine, sadly, is disconnected.)

> It has a 270 MB hard drive, a floppy drive, and a CD drive.
> The CD drive is connected through my sound card, a Sound Blaster Pro 2.
> The installer can't seem to find my CD drive.  How can I fix this?

I see you've already figured this out (found drivers), but just for
future reference for others:

* http://btmgr.sf.net/

"
Booting from CD-ROM
Smart BootManager supports booting from almost all kinds of IDE ATAPI
CD-ROM, including PCMCIA CD-ROMs. You can let BIOS boot from C: only
and assign a password for it, then you can boot from CD-ROM with Smart
BootManager easily, while other guy couldn't. If you have a Laptop
computer with a special PCMCIA CD-ROM which BIOS does not support
booting from, Smart BootManager can help you make it easy!
"


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Mallory Worlton]

I did some digging and found appropriate drivers.  I am now installing 
FreeDOS.  Thank you all for your assistance.


On 2020-03-13 5:04 p.m., ZB wrote:

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 12:46:28AM +0100, Eric Auer wrote:


CD-ROM connected to controllers on the sound card
might be overlooked by generic drivers.

They usually _will_ be "overlooked" - unless such soundcard has a jumper,
that can make the storage device, connected to its controller, bootable



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[ZB]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 12:46:28AM +0100, Eric Auer wrote:

> CD-ROM connected to controllers on the sound card
> might be overlooked by generic drivers.

They usually _will_ be "overlooked" - unless such soundcard has a jumper,
that can make the storage device, connected to its controller, bootable
-- 
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Zbigniew


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

CD-ROM connected to controllers on the sound card
might be overlooked by generic drivers. Try to boot
using a floppy where you can manually add specific
drivers for your CD-ROM. If you already have another
DOS on the computer anyway, you can boot *that* and
then invoke the installer on the CD-ROM while using
your existing CD-ROM drivers.

Eric


> My computer is a Dell Optiplex 433/L with 16 MB of RAM and a 486
> processor.  It has a 270 MB hard drive, a floppy drive, and a CD drive. 
> The CD drive is connected through my sound card, a Sound Blaster Pro 2. 
> The installer can't seem to find my CD drive.  How can I fix this?



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't Install; FreeDOS 1.1 test release #2

[Alain Mouette]

I have been installing FreeDOS a lot, the only thing that works ALLWAYS 
including USB CDs, is what I describel in a message 15june2011...

Then I can have a huge A: (I made it with bytes) with all that I need.

There is no way to make something that recognizes the CD everywhere.

Alain

Em 20-07-2011 14:46, Bernd Blaauw escreveu:
> Op 20-7-2011 4:17, Virii schreef:
>>> What exactly goes wrong when you do what?
>>> At which step? Which error messages do you
>>> get, or do things hang? Crash? What sorts
>>> of everything did you try, what happened?
>>
>> It hangs at the language selection screen. The very bottom selection of the
>> main menu looks for a non-existent FDBOOTCD.ISO. The readme states that it
>> should load the ISO into a ramdisk. Etc...
>
> Language selection: think I fixed that last night.
> Bottom selection: decided to keep things easy this time, without ISO
> inside CD/ISO. Easily enough added again, the UPDATE batchfile which is
> on the A: part (\ISOLINUX\FDBOOT.IMG) creates the inner ISO (which is
> uploaded as TEST2) followed by the outer ISO (which I uploaded as TEST1
> earlier) on ramdisk (64MB required at least). After modifications
> followed by creation of both ISOs, you can decided for yourself which
> ISO to copy to harddisk.
>
>>
>> But, nevermind. [Smacks self in forehead...]
>
> hehe. They're test releases for a reason, I'm not able to fix and
> improve everything right away and in perfectly usable shape.
>
>> I simply extracted the contents of the ISO to the C:\ partition, and
>> successfully ran the setup from there.
>>
>> It complained about a few missing packages like doslfn, wattcp, wget, ...,
>> but it installed. Can I just copy over the 'doslfn' from an older version's
>> disc, or is that feature compiled into kernel now?
>
> Copy all you want, directory structure was modified a bit without
> telling the installer. As a consequence, the package is present but not
> installed.
>
>> They works when I DEVLOAD them post boot-up, but the USB flash drive steals
>> the DVD-RW drive's letter (E:\ in my case). USBUHCI, and USBDRIVE don't work
>> at all for me. It not only wont load my USB drives, it doesn't even find
>> them. Strangely enough if I load them before USBASPI/NJ32DISK, my flash
>> drive is assigned M:\ instead.
>
> Strange indeed. CD-ROM driveletter can be altered if you want:
> option 1: SHSUCDX /D:FDCD0001,X
> option 2: SHSUCDX /D:FDCD0001 /L:X
>
> Your drivers taking over early driveletters is something I can't help,
> no experience with the USB drivers you mention.
> A commercial/trialware USB stack is at http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/
> , might work, or not. Worked for me yet lacks functionality and disables
> USB legacy stuff so I ended up with a non-functioning keyboard till reboot.
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't Install; FreeDOS 1.1 test release #2

[Bernd Blaauw]

Op 20-7-2011 4:17, Virii schreef:
>> What exactly goes wrong when you do what?
>> At which step? Which error messages do you
>> get, or do things hang? Crash? What sorts
>> of everything did you try, what happened?
>
> It hangs at the language selection screen. The very bottom selection of the
> main menu looks for a non-existent FDBOOTCD.ISO. The readme states that it
> should load the ISO into a ramdisk. Etc...

Language selection: think I fixed that last night.
Bottom selection: decided to keep things easy this time, without ISO 
inside CD/ISO. Easily enough added again, the UPDATE batchfile which is 
on the A: part (\ISOLINUX\FDBOOT.IMG) creates the inner ISO (which is 
uploaded as TEST2) followed by the outer ISO (which I uploaded as TEST1 
earlier) on ramdisk (64MB required at least). After modifications 
followed by creation of both ISOs, you can decided for yourself which 
ISO to copy to harddisk.

>
> But, nevermind. [Smacks self in forehead...]

hehe. They're test releases for a reason, I'm not able to fix and 
improve everything right away and in perfectly usable shape.

> I simply extracted the contents of the ISO to the C:\ partition, and
> successfully ran the setup from there.
>
> It complained about a few missing packages like doslfn, wattcp, wget, ...,
> but it installed. Can I just copy over the 'doslfn' from an older version's
> disc, or is that feature compiled into kernel now?

Copy all you want, directory structure was modified a bit without 
telling the installer. As a consequence, the package is present but not 
installed.

> They works when I DEVLOAD them post boot-up, but the USB flash drive steals
> the DVD-RW drive's letter (E:\ in my case). USBUHCI, and USBDRIVE don't work
> at all for me. It not only wont load my USB drives, it doesn't even find
> them. Strangely enough if I load them before USBASPI/NJ32DISK, my flash
> drive is assigned M:\ instead.

Strange indeed. CD-ROM driveletter can be altered if you want:
option 1: SHSUCDX /D:FDCD0001,X
option 2: SHSUCDX /D:FDCD0001 /L:X

Your drivers taking over early driveletters is something I can't help, 
no experience with the USB drivers you mention.
A commercial/trialware USB stack is at http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/ 
, might work, or not. Worked for me yet lacks functionality and disables 
USB legacy stuff so I ended up with a non-functioning keyboard till reboot.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't Install; FreeDOS 1.1 test release #2

[Bret Johnson]

> They works when I DEVLOAD them post boot-up, but the USB flash drive
> steals the DVD-RW drive's letter (E:\ in my case). USBUHCI, and
> USBDRIVE don't work at all for me. It not only wont load my USB
> drives, it doesn't even find them. Strangely enough if I load them
> before USBASPI/NJ32DISK, my flash drive is assigned M:\ instead.

Send me an e-mail (bretjohn at juno.com) and we can try to get your USB disks 
to work.  I don't think this Forum isn't the correct place to do it, though.  
It may be pretty simple to fix.  I'm guessing that you are simply running 
"USBUHCIL" with no options, which will only install the driver for the "first" 
USB host controller, and you may not be plugging your disks into the first one. 
 The M:\ thing also makes sense if you are installing USBDRIVE with no options, 
since USBDRIVE "reserves" drive letters that will be used when you do plug in 
some disks.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't Install; FreeDOS 1.1 test release #2

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Virii  wrote:
>
> It complained about a few missing packages like doslfn, wattcp, wget, ...,
> but it installed. Can I just copy over the 'doslfn' from an older version's
> disc, or is that feature compiled into kernel now?

No LFNs in kernel (and still patented until 2017, I think, ugh). But
grab DOSLFN 0.40e here:

http://adoxa.110mb.com/doslfn/index.html

I would probably prefer something like StarLFN (TSR), which just (by
default) makes LONGNAME.DAT files with 8.3 -> LFN translation at
runtime. At least then you avoid patents and any "danger"
(cross-links) to your real partition data. But I suspect that idea
won't float with the kernel devs.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't Install; FreeDOS 1.1 test release #2

[Virii]

> What exactly goes wrong when you do what?
> At which step? Which error messages do you
> get, or do things hang? Crash? What sorts
> of everything did you try, what happened?

It hangs at the language selection screen. The very bottom selection of the
main menu looks for a non-existent FDBOOTCD.ISO. The readme states that it
should load the ISO into a ramdisk. Etc...

But, nevermind. [Smacks self in forehead...]

I simply extracted the contents of the ISO to the C:\ partition, and
successfully ran the setup from there.

It complained about a few missing packages like doslfn, wattcp, wget, ...,
but it installed. Can I just copy over the 'doslfn' from an older version's
disc, or is that feature compiled into kernel now?

I noticed almost right away that my USB driver causes a crash if I attempt
to assign it from the fdconfig.sys at boot. I use MDGx's USBASPI.EXE, and
the NJ32DISK.SYS USB driver. 

They works when I DEVLOAD them post boot-up, but the USB flash drive steals
the DVD-RW drive's letter (E:\ in my case). USBUHCI, and USBDRIVE don't work
at all for me. It not only wont load my USB drives, it doesn't even find
them. Strangely enough if I load them before USBASPI/NJ32DISK, my flash
drive is assigned M:\ instead.
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://old.nabble.com/Re%3A-Can%27t-Install--FreeDOS-1.1-test-release--2-tp32095584p32096202.html
Sent from the FreeDOS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't Install; FreeDOS 1.1 test release #2

[Rugxulo]

Hi again,

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:25 AM, Bernd Blaauw  wrote:
>
> Slightly offtopic: is there any foolproof way to automatically switch to
> the location a batchfile is in? a kind of "CDD %0" except that %0 is
> whatever you call it, instead of a full pathname. Same for TRUENAME %0

You might need FreeCOM 0.84-pre2, I think. It has "set /e" (but needs
%TEMP% !!) and "cdd" works for "c:\path\blah.exe". Otherwise, you'll
have to hack up a quick tool or use something premade (DJGPP's
dirname.exe from Shell Utils [shl2011b.zip]) or similar.

I'm not exactly sure I understand the issue, but that's as good as
guess as I can offer without knowing more. (What are you trying to do?
Something from within another .BAT file?)

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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't Install; FreeDOS 1.1 test release #2

[Bernd Blaauw]

Op 20-7-2011 1:12, Eric Auer schreef:
> What exactly goes wrong when you do what?
> At which step? Which error messages do you
> get, or do things hang? Crash? What sorts
> of everything did you try, what happened?

Lot's of stuff isn't functioning in the 2nd release, debugging that at 
the moment.

Slightly offtopic: is there any foolproof way to automatically switch to 
the location a batchfile is in? a kind of "CDD %0" except that %0 is 
whatever you call it, instead of a full pathname. Same for TRUENAME %0

>
> Eric :-)

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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't Install; FreeDOS 1.1 test release #2

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

> Has anyone had any luck installing this latest test release? 
> http://sourceforge.net/news/?group_id=5109&id=302138
> 
> I've tried everything from burning it to a disc, to mounting the boot
> floppy/iso through Grub4Dos, and even rebuilding the iso.
> 
> I read the readme.txt for the release, but following those exact steps
> didn't work either.

What exactly goes wrong when you do what?
At which step? Which error messages do you
get, or do things hang? Crash? What sorts
of everything did you try, what happened?

Eric :-)


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Blair Campbell]

My first guess is that you didn't choose wget for installation

On 12/23/07, Rob Larkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> 'Can't install FreeDOS.
>
> I tried to report this to Bugzilla but I'm not getting the confirmation
> email(s) when I try to set up an account.
>
> Anyway, my problem... when the installation routine asks me my IP
> address I enter DHCP. The install responds:
>
> Configuration complete.
> Dependencies met or there aren't any dependencies.
> Configuring...
> D:\FDOS\Bin\CTMOUSE\ctm-EN.exe => D:\FDOS\Bin\mouse.exe
> Configuration complete.
> Dependencies met or there aren't dependencies.
> Configuring...
> Configuring through DHCP...
>
> And then it starts beeping like crazy.
>
> I assume the problem has something to do with obtaining the IP address
> from my ISP. I don't know whether it matters, but I have a Buffalo
> Airstation router.
>
>Like I said I tried to report this to the FreeDOS bugzilla but I
> wasn't
> able to set up my account. Any help reporting the bug or installing
> FreeDOS would be greatly appreciated.
>
> - -Rob
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
>
> iD8DBQFHbrHr+KyO/KUp2FYRAq1KAKDkqDzgpW/BNi/ZTgmo09xOT2exkgCeLrZD
> sZ+M3iD1+bFOl8COCJIJzzE=
> =oPrL
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
> -
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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDOS

[Eric Auer]

Hi Rob,

> I tried to report this to Bugzilla but I'm not getting the
> email(s) when I try to set up an account.

Read the yellow box on www.freedos.org/freedos/bugs/ - it
says that you have to get the account from us humans :-)

> Anyway, my problem... when the installation routine asks me my
> IP address I enter DHCP. The install responds:
...
> Configuring through DHCP...
> And then it starts beeping like crazy.

Basically you have the same problem as reported by some others
earlier this month - automatic configuration does not work out
for your PC but the easy workaround is to not install packages
which require a network connection during install :-).

See for example:

> www.mail-archive.com/freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06646.html

Of course you can fix the network config manually at a later time.

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Alex Horvath]

That was it Bernd, partition was not set active. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bernd
Blaauw
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:49 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

Alex Horvath schreef:
> Sorry for all the newbie posts -
>
> FreeDos did install but when I boot all I get is a "_" character and 
> no response to keyboard input.
>
> If I boot from the FreeDos CD I can the FreeDos files on C:.
>
> Anything I can check? 
>   
Let's see, a very basic installation has the following:
* Harddisk
  -Master Boot Record (MBR, contains partition table and keeps up which
partition should be booted)
  - FAT formatted primary partition, it needs to be set Active in your
partitioning tool
 - Bootsector (operating system dependent)
 - operating system's kernel (FreeDOS: C:\KERNEL.SYS)
 - some kind of user interface (FreeDOS:  C:\COMMAND.COM)

Easiest is to check if these files exist with DIR C:\ Also transfer
system files and the bootsector with SYS C: (or SYS A: C:) In case MBR
needs to be rewritten, do a FDISK /MBR




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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Bernd Blaauw]

Alex Horvath schreef:
> Sorry for all the newbie posts -
>
> FreeDos did install but when I boot all I get is a "_" character and no
> response to keyboard input.
>
> If I boot from the FreeDos CD I can the FreeDos files on C:.
>
> Anything I can check? 
>   
Let's see, a very basic installation has the following:
* Harddisk
  -Master Boot Record (MBR, contains partition table and keeps up which 
partition should be booted)
  - FAT formatted primary partition, it needs to be set Active in your 
partitioning tool
 - Bootsector (operating system dependent)
 - operating system's kernel (FreeDOS: C:\KERNEL.SYS)
 - some kind of user interface (FreeDOS:  C:\COMMAND.COM)

Easiest is to check if these files exist with DIR C:\
Also transfer system files and the bootsector with SYS C: (or SYS A: C:)
In case MBR needs to be rewritten, do a FDISK /MBR



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Alex Horvath]

Sorry for all the newbie posts -

FreeDos did install but when I boot all I get is a "_" character and no
response to keyboard input.

If I boot from the FreeDos CD I can the FreeDos files on C:.

Anything I can check? 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex
Horvath
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:27 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

You're right about the partitions - it's been a while and I forgot.

You're also right about the Vista disks - none came with the computer.

And, it did blow away Vista so I'm committed now.

But at least the FreeDos Install was successful!

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bonnie
Dalzell
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:11 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Alex Horvath wrote:

AH >Hi,
AH >
AH >I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos
on a AH >second partition and dual boot. 
AH >
AH >I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
AH >Partition Magic.
AH >I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
AH >However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
AH >partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the AH
>existing primary partition.
AH >
AH >What am I doing wrong?

I do not mean to sound as if I am talking down or anything but:

Normally you can have as many as 4 primary partitions on a harddrive. 
You only have to make logical partitions within an extended partition if
you need more than 4 primary partitions.

Here is a page with basic information on partitions.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/structPartitions-c.html

Before you blow away your vista install make sure you actually have a
set of vista disks that came with your machine. These days some new
machines do not actually have a full set of operating disks.

Another partition editor which is free is Ranish Partiion editor 

www.ranish.com


AH >
AH >If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
AH >make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
AH >
AH >Thanks
AH >
AH >
AH >

~~~
   Bonnie Dalzell, MA mail:5100 Hydes Rd  Hydes
MD USA 21082-EMAIL:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.

Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/  BUSINESS http://www.batw.com



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Eric Auer]

Hi Alex,

> I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
> Partition Magic.

Note that you should not make it too small - it should not be FAT12
and it should not be 32 MB or less, if you ask me. Actually a full
install can be around 150 MB :-). Extended partitions are a bit
tricky to boot from, so you will probably need a boot manager, as
the other people on the list already said.

> However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
> partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the
> existing primary partition.

How do you know? It wants to format the first FAT partition on the
drive, and if your Windows is NTFS (as most XP / 2000 / 2003 / Vista
installs are) then it will not get a drive letter from DOS anyway...

> If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
> make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.

DOS can only damage data on FAT partitions, unless of course you run
a tool like FDISK to modify the partitioning itself. You should not
use DOS FDISK, as it is far too easy to end up being unable to access
your existing data any more (only an expert could fix it again then).
Luckily there are gparted bootable cdroms (gparted is a Linux tool but
you need no Linux experience to use a gparted cdrom) and things like
Partition Magic and similar :-).

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Alex Horvath]

You're right about the partitions - it's been a while and I forgot.

You're also right about the Vista disks - none came with the computer.

And, it did blow away Vista so I'm committed now.

But at least the FreeDos Install was successful!

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bonnie
Dalzell
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:11 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Alex Horvath wrote:

AH >Hi,
AH >
AH >I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos
on a AH >second partition and dual boot. 
AH >
AH >I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
AH >Partition Magic.
AH >I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
AH >However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
AH >partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the AH
>existing primary partition.
AH >
AH >What am I doing wrong?

I do not mean to sound as if I am talking down or anything but:

Normally you can have as many as 4 primary partitions on a harddrive. 
You only have to make logical partitions within an extended partition if
you need more than 4 primary partitions.

Here is a page with basic information on partitions.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/structPartitions-c.html

Before you blow away your vista install make sure you actually have a
set of vista disks that came with your machine. These days some new
machines do not actually have a full set of operating disks.

Another partition editor which is free is Ranish Partiion editor 

www.ranish.com


AH >
AH >If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
AH >make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
AH >
AH >Thanks
AH >
AH >
AH >

~~~
   Bonnie Dalzell, MA mail:5100 Hydes Rd  Hydes
MD USA 21082-EMAIL:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.

Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/  BUSINESS http://www.batw.com



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Jim Hall]

Here are two links for emulators:

* Virtual PC
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

* VMWare server (free)
http://www.vmware.com/products/server/


However, since you will be using FreeDOS to test hardware, you don't
want to run an emulator. The host OS (Vista) will be presenting the
PCMCIA hardware to you, so if 1/100 will crash the OS, you'll crash
the host OS (Vista) before you crash the guest OS (FreeDOS). Really,
you do want to run FreeDOS using dual-boot. Back to the start, I
guess. Use one of the boot managers I pointed to in my other email to
you. That's probably the easiest way to do it.

-jh


On 8/6/07, Alex Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks,
>
> I noticed that it goes to a C: drive when I say return to command prompt
> and there are no files in C: so it's doing what it's supposed to.
>
> Can you point me to some info on emulators?
>
> FYI, what we are trying to do is make a dedicated test computer for
> production test of PCMCIA cards. DOS is preferable to windows for many
> reasons. For example, about 1 in 100 PCMCIA cards is defective and it
> usually crashes the computer. Not that it won't crash the computer with
> DOS but it will boot up in seconds vs. minutes and it's also easier to
> find "DOS literate" operators than "windows literate" operators.
>
> Of course it's all dependent on getting a Panasonic DOS USB driver to
> work, which is a non-supported mode.
>
> Thanks
>

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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Jim Hall]

I recommend using a boot manager. There are several free ones out there:
* GRUB 
* XOSL 
* GAG 

I haven't used them with FreeDOS (I use GRUB to boot my Linux box, but
not dual-boot) but I know others have. I used to use V Communications'
System Commander
 which was
quite nice.


But as Bernd suggests: have you considered using a PC emulator to boot
FreeDOS? I find this makes it very easy for new users to install
FreeDOS, especially if you do not need a dedicated PC (for example,
for running embedded systems.) If you just want to boot FreeDOS to
play games or to run old business software, it may be better to run
VMWare or VirtualPC to create a virtual computer on which you can
install FreeDOS.  I use both DOSEmu and VMWare on my system for
experimenting with different things under FreeDOS.


-jh


On 8/6/07, Bernd Blaauw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alex Horvath schreef:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos on
> > a second partition and dual boot.
> >
> > I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
> > Partition Magic.
> > I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
> > However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
> > partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the
> > existing primary partition.
> Most DOS flavours will only be bootable on primary FAT12/16/32
> partitions. It's not recommended to install on Logical partitions inside
> an extended partition.
> I'm not quite sure FreeDOS installation procedure demands (and is able
> to verify) a primary FAT partition.
>
> As you got Partition Magic, I'd recommend to delete the logical and
> extended partition, and instead create a Primary partition using FAT
> filesystem.
> To my knowledge Vista only installs on NTFS, and FreeDOS cannot see any
> NTFS partitions (doesn't recognize them), so there's no chance you'll
> ruin your Vista partition unless you actually delete partitions using PM
> or Fdisk for example.
>
> For dualbooting, i think you can add FreeDOS to the Windows menu.
> Possibly you'd have to save the FreeDOS bootsector to a file then first.
> (see SYS /?)
> > What am I doing wrong?
> >
> > If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
> > make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
> Never considered an emulator?
>
> Bernd
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Bonnie Dalzell]

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Alex Horvath wrote:

AH >Hi,
AH > 
AH >I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos on a
AH >second partition and dual boot. 
AH > 
AH >I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
AH >Partition Magic.
AH >I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
AH >However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
AH >partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the
AH >existing primary partition.
AH > 
AH >What am I doing wrong?

I do not mean to sound as if I am talking down or anything but:

Normally you can have as many as 4 primary partitions on a harddrive. 
You only have to make logical partitions within an extended partition if 
you need more than 4 primary partitions.

Here is a page with basic information on partitions.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/structPartitions-c.html

Before you blow away your vista install make sure you actually have a 
set of vista disks that came with your machine. These days some new 
machines do not actually have a full set of operating disks.

Another partition editor which is free is Ranish Partiion editor 

www.ranish.com


AH > 
AH >If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
AH >make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
AH > 
AH >Thanks
AH > 
AH > 
AH >

~~~
   Bonnie Dalzell, MA
mail:5100 Hydes Rd  Hydes MD USA 21082-EMAIL:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd & iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Alex Horvath]

Thanks,

I noticed that it goes to a C: drive when I say return to command prompt
and there are no files in C: so it's doing what it's supposed to.

Can you point me to some info on emulators?

FYI, what we are trying to do is make a dedicated test computer for
production test of PCMCIA cards. DOS is preferable to windows for many
reasons. For example, about 1 in 100 PCMCIA cards is defective and it
usually crashes the computer. Not that it won't crash the computer with
DOS but it will boot up in seconds vs. minutes and it's also easier to
find "DOS literate" operators than "windows literate" operators.

Of course it's all dependent on getting a Panasonic DOS USB driver to
work, which is a non-supported mode.

Thanks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bernd
Blaauw
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:56 AM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

Alex Horvath schreef:
> Hi,
>  
> I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos on 
> a second partition and dual boot.
>  
> I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using 
> Partition Magic.
> I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
> However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which 
> partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the 
> existing primary partition.
Most DOS flavours will only be bootable on primary FAT12/16/32
partitions. It's not recommended to install on Logical partitions inside
an extended partition.
I'm not quite sure FreeDOS installation procedure demands (and is able
to verify) a primary FAT partition.

As you got Partition Magic, I'd recommend to delete the logical and
extended partition, and instead create a Primary partition using FAT
filesystem.
To my knowledge Vista only installs on NTFS, and FreeDOS cannot see any
NTFS partitions (doesn't recognize them), so there's no chance you'll
ruin your Vista partition unless you actually delete partitions using PM
or Fdisk for example.

For dualbooting, i think you can add FreeDOS to the Windows menu. 
Possibly you'd have to save the FreeDOS bootsector to a file then first.
(see SYS /?)
> What am I doing wrong?
>  
> If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can 
> make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
Never considered an emulator?

Bernd



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

[Bernd Blaauw]

Alex Horvath schreef:
> Hi,
>  
> I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos on 
> a second partition and dual boot.
>  
> I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using 
> Partition Magic.
> I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
> However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which 
> partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the 
> existing primary partition.
Most DOS flavours will only be bootable on primary FAT12/16/32 
partitions. It's not recommended to install on Logical partitions inside 
an extended partition.
I'm not quite sure FreeDOS installation procedure demands (and is able 
to verify) a primary FAT partition.

As you got Partition Magic, I'd recommend to delete the logical and 
extended partition, and instead create a Primary partition using FAT 
filesystem.
To my knowledge Vista only installs on NTFS, and FreeDOS cannot see any 
NTFS partitions (doesn't recognize them), so there's no chance you'll 
ruin your Vista partition unless you actually delete partitions using PM 
or Fdisk for example.

For dualbooting, i think you can add FreeDOS to the Windows menu. 
Possibly you'd have to save the FreeDOS bootsector to a file then first.
(see SYS /?)
> What am I doing wrong?
>  
> If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can 
> make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
Never considered an emulator?

Bernd


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