[Audyssey] programming

2010-02-14 Thread Claudio Zeni
Dear members

I haad the following idea today:

To learn a programming language, you have houndreds of tutorials an  books
on the net.
But there are some things you just can't easily learn from the net.
For example:
How to make an audiogame with a ship that goes from left to right.
I am sure that a professional programmer has to look before he can program
it.
That's just because you don't learn it in the standard programming books.
So my question to audiogame developrs:
Would it be possible for you to create some programming tutorials, with a
bit basic and also with audio related things?
Every developer can write the tutorial in  his preffered language.
Jim in VB, Thomas or Philip in C++ etc...
What do you think?

Best regards

Clauido


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Re: [Audyssey] programming

2010-02-14 Thread Oriol Gómez
Well i agree, but most fokls would not take the time to write a
programming tutorial because they probably have better things to do, I
don't know. Sometimes this stuff is just logic.

On 2/14/10, Claudio Zeni claudio.z...@bluewin.ch wrote:
 Dear members

 I haad the following idea today:

 To learn a programming language, you have houndreds of tutorials an  books
 on the net.
 But there are some things you just can't easily learn from the net.
 For example:
 How to make an audiogame with a ship that goes from left to right.
 I am sure that a professional programmer has to look before he can program
 it.
 That's just because you don't learn it in the standard programming books.
 So my question to audiogame developrs:
 Would it be possible for you to create some programming tutorials, with a
 bit basic and also with audio related things?
 Every developer can write the tutorial in  his preffered language.
 Jim in VB, Thomas or Philip in C++ etc...
 What do you think?

 Best regards

 Clauido


 ---
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Re: [Audyssey] programming

2010-02-14 Thread dark
I think Claudio, this will be answered very much when philip's construction 
kit is available.


Not only will it be audio game focused, but also it will allow you to begin 
your game creation by taking a basic template of a game and simply playing 
with variables, before you go on to something more ambicious.


So, lets tsay there was a space invaders template. You would not need to 
worry about things like defigning the enemy ships' position by sterrio pan 
or wangling about with imput methods for moving left right and shooting, but 
could,  for instance, begin thinking about writing special functions and 
behaviour for the enemy ships,  such as teleporting when Hit.


Appologies for answering for philip, but I gather this is how his toolkit 
will work,  and i for one see it as a distinct advantage.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Claudio Zeni claudio.z...@bluewin.ch

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:27 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] programming



Dear members

I haad the following idea today:

To learn a programming language, you have houndreds of tutorials an  books
on the net.
But there are some things you just can't easily learn from the net.
For example:
How to make an audiogame with a ship that goes from left to right.
I am sure that a professional programmer has to look before he can program
it.
That's just because you don't learn it in the standard programming 
books.

So my question to audiogame developrs:
Would it be possible for you to create some programming tutorials, with a
bit basic and also with audio related things?
Every developer can write the tutorial in  his preffered language.
Jim in VB, Thomas or Philip in C++ etc...
What do you think?

Best regards

Clauido


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list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 



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Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.

2010-02-14 Thread Oriol Gómez
How is trugz an rpg game? As far as Iknwo thsi game is about driving
trugs, it has nothing to do with levels and characters etc.

I'm curretnly playing alter aeon, and I played warriros2 for a while
which is a browser game and it's pretty good but the guys dont seem to
have very good english grammar heh.
visit at http://warriors2.com

On 2/14/10, Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net wrote:
 I'll do that and many thanks.
 lisa Hayes
 - Original Message -
 From: Steve blindma...@comcast.net
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:46 PM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.


 Hello Lisa, there is another online game I have been playing lately that
 is pretty fun it is,
 http://www.thesiegelsnest.us/devana

 check it out.
 - Original Message -
 From: Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net
 To: The Kolesar Brothers kolesar16...@roadrunner.com; Gamers
 Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.


 Thanks Ron I'll take alook.
 lisa Hayes
 - Original Message -
 From: The Kolesar Brothers kolesar16...@roadrunner.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:49 AM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.


 Hey Lisa, from Ron and Boz. If you're looking for a RPG game?
 I can recommend going to
 www.trukz.com
 So here's maybe seeing you on the road?
 Ron
 Have a good day,
From the Kolesar brothers and our puppies
 kolesar16...@roadrunner.com

 - Original Message -
 From: Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:40 AM
 Subject: [Audyssey] watership down game.


 Hi all,  Is their a rpg based on the book, watership down by Richard
 Adams?
 just curious here.
 lisa Hayes
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Re: [Audyssey] programming

2010-02-14 Thread Philip Bennefall

Hi Claudio,

Some of what you say is definitely true, but let me make a few 
clarifications. You say that surely a professional programmer has to look at 
resources whenever making a new project. This is not always the case, 
actually. In your example with the ship, for instance, if one already knows 
a programming language and has access to audio and keyboard functionality it 
is obvious how to do that ship game without looking at any tutorials or 
explanations etc. There's indeed a fine line between coming up with new 
concepts for games and adapting existing ideas by reading, but when a 
programmer has acquired the skills and the basic tools there's not much 
tutorial or reading of books involved unless they're trying to branch into a 
new relm such as advanced artificial intelligence.


To summarize, when you know a programming language and have access to the 
basic game related functionality that you'll need, you will not require any 
other tutorial than your own imagination. smile.


I hope that made sense.

Kind regards,

Philip Bennefall
- Original Message - 
From: Claudio Zeni claudio.z...@bluewin.ch

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:27 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] programming



Dear members

I haad the following idea today:

To learn a programming language, you have houndreds of tutorials an  books
on the net.
But there are some things you just can't easily learn from the net.
For example:
How to make an audiogame with a ship that goes from left to right.
I am sure that a professional programmer has to look before he can program
it.
That's just because you don't learn it in the standard programming 
books.

So my question to audiogame developrs:
Would it be possible for you to create some programming tutorials, with a
bit basic and also with audio related things?
Every developer can write the tutorial in  his preffered language.
Jim in VB, Thomas or Philip in C++ etc...
What do you think?

Best regards

Clauido


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Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2662 - Release Date: 02/01/10 
12:37:00



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Re: [Audyssey] a new member

2010-02-14 Thread Jim Kitchen

Hi Muhammed,

Welcome to the Audyssey list.  It's good to see you here.

Maybe someone here could help you to get the DelUserLex program and run it.  
Other's here have had the same problem with their anti virus programs not 
liking the file.

BFN

Jim

Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] programming

2010-02-14 Thread Munawar Bijani
Hi,
This is a good idea and I may take it on this summer concerning .NET and 
SlimDX development, since with .NET things are sort of all over the place, 
and message loops are pretty important to understand. I don't think there's 
a clear-cut audiogame development tutorial--all we can do is show you how to 
use DirectX, specifically the parts that audiogames will use, namely 
DirectSound, XAudio2, and DirectInput. Along with this you will also 
probably find it useful to learn wave structure layouts--that will help you 
when you decide to feed a game an ogg file and decode it before playing, 
since there's a big difference between raw wave data and wave with 
headers. I think all anyone can do is touch on every possible thing an 
audiogame is likely to have, so I won't focus on force feedback, 
callibrations, etc. Even DirectSound3D can get complicated since you can't 
really talk about it without talking about unit vectors and angles. :d. I 
think it's a good idea though, and am up for the .NET version this Summer.
Munawar A. Bijani
blog: http://munawar0009.blogspot.com
http://www.bpcprograms.com
Follow on Twitter for blog updates: http://www.twitter.com/munawar0009

--
From: Claudio Zeni claudio.z...@bluewin.ch
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:27 AM
To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: [Audyssey] programming

Dear members

I haad the following idea today:

To learn a programming language, you have houndreds of tutorials an  books
on the net.
But there are some things you just can't easily learn from the net.
For example:
How to make an audiogame with a ship that goes from left to right.
I am sure that a professional programmer has to look before he can program
it.
That's just because you don't learn it in the standard programming books.
So my question to audiogame developrs:
Would it be possible for you to create some programming tutorials, with a
bit basic and also with audio related things?
Every developer can write the tutorial in  his preffered language.
Jim in VB, Thomas or Philip in C++ etc...
What do you think?

Best regards

Clauido


---
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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
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Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions

2010-02-14 Thread anouk
Hello there, I have played lusternia in the past. It is one of the games by 
iron realms entertainment. Some people dont like them because of the item 
system these games employ. I am not a big fan of pvp and I found the iron games 
quite playable even without doing that. You do not HAVE to pay for the iron 
realms games. You can do it however and it will bring you credits which you can 
spend on skills and special artifacts.
As far as I know the quests in lusternia are not timed as in some other muds.
Greetings, Anouk,
On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:33 AM, dark wrote:

 Hi. 
 
 I was wondering if anyone played this mudk, sinse i've had a look through the 
 docs and there are several things which seemed possibly interesting to me, 
  but i have several questions too which weren't answered. 
 
 firstly quests. Yes, I like quests and exploration far more than interacting 
 with other players,  and I have a strong dislike of pvp. 
 
 Are the quests really as numerous as the game claimes? 
 
 Also, are they timed? 
 
 The thing which finally drove me off materia magica was the time limit on 
 quests combined with lack of accessible maps. 
 
 I don't mind hunting around to find place X for a quest, but having to do it 
 within a certain time was down right annoying! I found myself running around 
 like a headless chicken frantically trying to find where the heck I was 
 supposed to go and half of the time not managing it. 
 
 Even with maps or directions, I'm not sure how much I'd have appreciated 
 timed quests, sinse I tend to like exploring and detouring on the way,  
 though they might have made things easier.
 
 Then, is the matter of payment. Lusternia seems to be a commercial game, but 
 I can't for the life of me find out what precisely the price is, or what the 
 associated restrictions or rewards are. Any information would be appreciated. 
 
 lastly, pvp. How inforced is it in lusternia? and indeed how interesting is 
 the game to play without it?  i've seen too many games that say they 
 don't enforce pvp or competition, but then severely run out of things to do 
 if you don't participate in either (legend of the Green dragon anyone?). 
 
 Any information would be appreciated,  not to mention any possible quirks 
 with working with Vip mud too. 
 
 Thanks in advance, 
 
 Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] a new member

2010-02-14 Thread playful-puppy

yes welcome to the list, hope you find this list to be helpful.
that is 1 reason I will not have a dell computer, I had 1 dell computer in 
the past, and I swore after that, I would never own another dell ever again.
- Original Message - 
From: Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net

To: Muhammed Deniz Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member



Hi Muhammed,

Welcome to the Audyssey list.  It's good to see you here.

Maybe someone here could help you to get the DelUserLex program and run 
it.  Other's here have had the same problem with their anti virus programs 
not liking the file.


BFN

Jim

Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
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please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 



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Re: [Audyssey] a new member

2010-02-14 Thread William L. Houts



I have just purchased a Dell Studio tower, and it was the most maddening, 
time-wasting, infuriating customer experience I've ever had.  Phone calls 
were repeatedly dropped after waits of half an hour or more, phone calls and 
emails were not returned, the initial order was bungled and the tower they 
sent me didn't work at all.  Also, all of their websites are aggressively 
hostile to blind users, and their customer service people seem to have no 
understanding that blind people use computer equipment, too.  I will never 
buy another Dell, and I have vowed to spread as much anti-advertising as I 
can.  If you want to save your self hours and hours of phone time and spend 
a reasonable amount of money, go to Frye's.




--Bill

- Original Message - 
From: playful-puppy lap-dog2...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member



yes welcome to the list, hope you find this list to be helpful.
that is 1 reason I will not have a dell computer, I had 1 dell computer in 
the past, and I swore after that, I would never own another dell ever 
again.
- Original Message - 
From: Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net

To: Muhammed Deniz Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member



Hi Muhammed,

Welcome to the Audyssey list.  It's good to see you here.

Maybe someone here could help you to get the DelUserLex program and run 
it.  Other's here have had the same problem with their anti virus 
programs not liking the file.


BFN

Jim

Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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[Audyssey] Programming future

2010-02-14 Thread key stone
I'm behind you Phillip, personally I have had an idea for a few games, but 
don't have the programming resources or experience to do so; I have a great 
background in Audio and extensive resources to sounds and such, but the 
programming is a reach; with use of your programming suite I think my Vision, 
of opening the Audio game market up to more games with realistic content may 
come about.. THX
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Re: [Audyssey] programming

2010-02-14 Thread shaun everiss
its true you can't learn all programming from the net.
I have taken some basic courses at uni.
these covered basic conventions, they used pascal and javascript.
I also took a course on opperating systems and info systems linux the dos 
command line and windows.
Ok its basic but at least you get the idea.
any long course at tech on the next level up requires me to do something in 
graphical spreadsheeting and so I did not go any further on this line.
But at least I know when I look at some code I can roughly guess what is going 
on.
A lot of programmers copy code from samples or use code thats already created.
its easier, and if  module is already there maybe with a bit of tweaking then 
calling that is what you do and it works.
However this is getting beyond the scope of this list.
At 12:27 a.m. 15/02/2010, you wrote:
Dear members

I haad the following idea today:

To learn a programming language, you have houndreds of tutorials an  books
on the net.
But there are some things you just can't easily learn from the net.
For example:
How to make an audiogame with a ship that goes from left to right.
I am sure that a professional programmer has to look before he can program
it.
That's just because you don't learn it in the standard programming books.
So my question to audiogame developrs:
Would it be possible for you to create some programming tutorials, with a
bit basic and also with audio related things?
Every developer can write the tutorial in  his preffered language.
Jim in VB, Thomas or Philip in C++ etc...
What do you think?

Best regards

Clauido


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Re: [Audyssey] a new member

2010-02-14 Thread playful-puppy

so you also had the same problem I had.
how strange, you know, I have an asus netbook, and I have had no problems 
with it. I do all I can to steer blind computer users away from dell as 
well.  like I said before, I'll never own another dell as long as I live, 
you can't even give me a dell.
- Original Message - 
From: William L. Houts cad...@q.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member





I have just purchased a Dell Studio tower, and it was the most maddening, 
time-wasting, infuriating customer experience I've ever had.  Phone calls 
were repeatedly dropped after waits of half an hour or more, phone calls 
and emails were not returned, the initial order was bungled and the tower 
they sent me didn't work at all.  Also, all of their websites are 
aggressively hostile to blind users, and their customer service people 
seem to have no understanding that blind people use computer equipment, 
too.  I will never buy another Dell, and I have vowed to spread as much 
anti-advertising as I can.  If you want to save your self hours and hours 
of phone time and spend a reasonable amount of money, go to Frye's.




--Bill

- Original Message - 
From: playful-puppy lap-dog2...@sbcglobal.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member



yes welcome to the list, hope you find this list to be helpful.
that is 1 reason I will not have a dell computer, I had 1 dell computer 
in the past, and I swore after that, I would never own another dell ever 
again.
- Original Message - 
From: Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net

To: Muhammed Deniz Gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member



Hi Muhammed,

Welcome to the Audyssey list.  It's good to see you here.

Maybe someone here could help you to get the DelUserLex program and run 
it.  Other's here have had the same problem with their anti virus 
programs not liking the file.


BFN

Jim

Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] a new member

2010-02-14 Thread Kevin Weispfennig
Hi,

Well, that sounds good enough for an excuse not to buy one, but I don't 
know if they are the same here in Germany, so.
But this is getting rather off topic, just wanted to let ya'll know, or as 
far as I understand, its off topic.

Kevin



- Original Message -
From: playful-puppy lap-dog2...@sbcglobal.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:24:47 -0600
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member

 so you also had the same problem I had.
 how strange, you know, I have an asus netbook, and I have had no problems 
 with it. I do all I can to steer blind computer users away from dell as 
 well.  like I said before, I'll never own another dell as long as I live, 
 you can't even give me a dell.
 - Original Message - 
 From: William L. Houts cad...@q.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:24 AM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member
 
 
 
 
  I have just purchased a Dell Studio tower, and it was the most 
maddening, 
  time-wasting, infuriating customer experience I've ever had.  Phone 
calls 
  were repeatedly dropped after waits of half an hour or more, phone 
calls 
  and emails were not returned, the initial order was bungled and the 
tower 
  they sent me didn't work at all.  Also, all of their websites are 
  aggressively hostile to blind users, and their customer service people 
  seem to have no understanding that blind people use computer equipment, 
  too.  I will never buy another Dell, and I have vowed to spread as much 
  anti-advertising as I can.  If you want to save your self hours and 
hours 
  of phone time and spend a reasonable amount of money, go to Frye's.
 
 
 
  --Bill
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: playful-puppy lap-dog2...@sbcglobal.net
  To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
  Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member
 
 
  yes welcome to the list, hope you find this list to be helpful.
  that is 1 reason I will not have a dell computer, I had 1 dell 
computer 
  in the past, and I swore after that, I would never own another dell 
ever 
  again.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net
  To: Muhammed Deniz Gamers@audyssey.org
  Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:14 AM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a new member
 
 
  Hi Muhammed,
 
  Welcome to the Audyssey list.  It's good to see you here.
 
  Maybe someone here could help you to get the DelUserLex program and 
run 
  it.  Other's here have had the same problem with their anti virus 
  programs not liking the file.
 
  BFN
 
  Jim
 
  Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.
 
  j...@kitchensinc.net
  http://www.kitchensinc.net
  (440) 286-6920
  Chardon Ohio USA
  ---
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  http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org.
  If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
  list,
  please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 
 
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  http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org.
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  list,
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Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions

2010-02-14 Thread dark

Hi.

sounds interesting. Out of interest what is the problem people have with 
items?  or is it just the need to contribute creddits to pay for them.


Beware the gRue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: anouk radix_an...@hotmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions


Hello there, I have played lusternia in the past. It is one of the games 
by iron realms entertainment. Some people dont like them because of the 
item system these games employ. I am not a big fan of pvp and I found the 
iron games quite playable even without doing that. You do not HAVE to pay 
for the iron realms games. You can do it however and it will bring you 
credits which you can spend on skills and special artifacts.
As far as I know the quests in lusternia are not timed as in some other 
muds.

Greetings, Anouk,
On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:33 AM, dark wrote:


Hi.

I was wondering if anyone played this mudk, sinse i've had a look through 
the docs and there are several things which seemed possibly interesting 
to me,  but i have several questions too which weren't answered.


firstly quests. Yes, I like quests and exploration far more than 
interacting with other players,  and I have a strong dislike of pvp.


Are the quests really as numerous as the game claimes?

Also, are they timed?

The thing which finally drove me off materia magica was the time limit on 
quests combined with lack of accessible maps.


I don't mind hunting around to find place X for a quest, but having to do 
it within a certain time was down right annoying! I found myself running 
around like a headless chicken frantically trying to find where the heck 
I was supposed to go and half of the time not managing it.


Even with maps or directions, I'm not sure how much I'd have appreciated 
timed quests, sinse I tend to like exploring and detouring on the 
way,  though they might have made things easier.


Then, is the matter of payment. Lusternia seems to be a commercial game, 
but I can't for the life of me find out what precisely the price is, or 
what the associated restrictions or rewards are. Any information would be 
appreciated.


lastly, pvp. How inforced is it in lusternia? and indeed how interesting 
is the game to play without it?  i've seen too many games that say 
they don't enforce pvp or competition, but then severely run out of 
things to do if you don't participate in either (legend of the Green 
dragon anyone?).


Any information would be appreciated,  not to mention any possible 
quirks with working with Vip mud too.


Thanks in advance,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.

2010-02-14 Thread Steve
Well let's see, in trukz you are playing the role of a truck driver, and 
there for I would think this would be a role playing game.


- Original Message - 
From: Oriol Gómez ogomez@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



How is trugz an rpg game? As far as Iknwo thsi game is about driving
trugs, it has nothing to do with levels and characters etc.

I'm curretnly playing alter aeon, and I played warriros2 for a while
which is a browser game and it's pretty good but the guys dont seem to
have very good english grammar heh.
visit at http://warriors2.com

On 2/14/10, Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net wrote:

I'll do that and many thanks.
lisa Hayes
- Original Message -
From: Steve blindma...@comcast.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Hello Lisa, there is another online game I have been playing lately that
is pretty fun it is,
http://www.thesiegelsnest.us/devana

check it out.
- Original Message -
From: Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net
To: The Kolesar Brothers kolesar16...@roadrunner.com; Gamers
Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Thanks Ron I'll take alook.
lisa Hayes
- Original Message -
From: The Kolesar Brothers kolesar16...@roadrunner.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Hey Lisa, from Ron and Boz. If you're looking for a RPG game?
I can recommend going to
www.trukz.com
So here's maybe seeing you on the road?
Ron
Have a good day,

From the Kolesar brothers and our puppies

kolesar16...@roadrunner.com

- Original Message -
From: Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:40 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] watership down game.


Hi all,  Is their a rpg based on the book, watership down by Richard
Adams?
just curious here.
lisa Hayes
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Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.

2010-02-14 Thread dark
Hmmm, the problem is by that logic, in jim's golf game you are playing the 
role of a golfer,  in troopanum 2 the role of a starbase commander, and 
in duck blaster the role of a splattered duck enthusiast,  so these are 
all role playing games,  which would be insane!


On the audiogames.net index, truckz is catagorized as an economic stratogy 
game.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Steve blindma...@comcast.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.


Well let's see, in trukz you are playing the role of a truck driver, and
there for I would think this would be a role playing game.

- Original Message - 
From: Oriol Gómez ogomez@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



How is trugz an rpg game? As far as Iknwo thsi game is about driving
trugs, it has nothing to do with levels and characters etc.

I'm curretnly playing alter aeon, and I played warriros2 for a while
which is a browser game and it's pretty good but the guys dont seem to
have very good english grammar heh.
visit at http://warriors2.com

On 2/14/10, Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net wrote:

I'll do that and many thanks.
lisa Hayes
- Original Message -
From: Steve blindma...@comcast.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Hello Lisa, there is another online game I have been playing lately that
is pretty fun it is,
http://www.thesiegelsnest.us/devana

check it out.
- Original Message -
From: Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net
To: The Kolesar Brothers kolesar16...@roadrunner.com; Gamers
Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Thanks Ron I'll take alook.
lisa Hayes
- Original Message -
From: The Kolesar Brothers kolesar16...@roadrunner.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Hey Lisa, from Ron and Boz. If you're looking for a RPG game?
I can recommend going to
www.trukz.com
So here's maybe seeing you on the road?
Ron
Have a good day,

From the Kolesar brothers and our puppies

kolesar16...@roadrunner.com

- Original Message -
From: Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:40 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] watership down game.


Hi all,  Is their a rpg based on the book, watership down by Richard
Adams?
just curious here.
lisa Hayes
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Re: [Audyssey] programming

2010-02-14 Thread James Dietz
A PROFESSIONAL PROGRAM WOULD NOT HAVE TO LOOK UP HOW TO CREATE A GAME  
WITH A SHIP MOVING LEFT TO RIGHT. SHE HAS ALREADY HAD EXPERIENCE  
SOLVING PROBLEMS.  WHEN YOU LEARN HOW TO PROGRAM YOU ALSO LEARN HOW TO  
SOLVE A PROBLEM OR CREATE SOMETHING. THERE IS NOT ONE WAY TO WRITE ANY  
PROGRAM.

On Feb 14, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Claudio Zeni wrote:


Dear members

I haad the following idea today:

To learn a programming language, you have houndreds of tutorials an   
books

on the net.
But there are some things you just can't easily learn from the net.
For example:
How to make an audiogame with a ship that goes from left to right.
I am sure that a professional programmer has to look before he can  
program

it.
That's just because you don't learn it in the standard programming  
books.

So my question to audiogame developrs:
Would it be possible for you to create some programming tutorials,  
with a

bit basic and also with audio related things?
Every developer can write the tutorial in  his preffered language.
Jim in VB, Thomas or Philip in C++ etc...
What do you think?

Best regards

Clauido


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Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.

2010-02-14 Thread Steve

Everyone has an opinion.
Thanks.
- Original Message - 
From: dark d...@xgam.org

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.


Hmmm, the problem is by that logic, in jim's golf game you are playing the
role of a golfer,  in troopanum 2 the role of a starbase commander, and
in duck blaster the role of a splattered duck enthusiast,  so these are
all role playing games,  which would be insane!

On the audiogames.net index, truckz is catagorized as an economic stratogy
game.

Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Steve blindma...@comcast.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.


Well let's see, in trukz you are playing the role of a truck driver, and
there for I would think this would be a role playing game.

- Original Message - 
From: Oriol Gómez ogomez@gmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



How is trugz an rpg game? As far as Iknwo thsi game is about driving
trugs, it has nothing to do with levels and characters etc.

I'm curretnly playing alter aeon, and I played warriros2 for a while
which is a browser game and it's pretty good but the guys dont seem to
have very good english grammar heh.
visit at http://warriors2.com

On 2/14/10, Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net wrote:

I'll do that and many thanks.
lisa Hayes
- Original Message -
From: Steve blindma...@comcast.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Hello Lisa, there is another online game I have been playing lately that
is pretty fun it is,
http://www.thesiegelsnest.us/devana

check it out.
- Original Message -
From: Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net
To: The Kolesar Brothers kolesar16...@roadrunner.com; Gamers
Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Thanks Ron I'll take alook.
lisa Hayes
- Original Message -
From: The Kolesar Brothers kolesar16...@roadrunner.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.



Hey Lisa, from Ron and Boz. If you're looking for a RPG game?
I can recommend going to
www.trukz.com
So here's maybe seeing you on the road?
Ron
Have a good day,

From the Kolesar brothers and our puppies

kolesar16...@roadrunner.com

- Original Message -
From: Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:40 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] watership down game.


Hi all,  Is their a rpg based on the book, watership down by Richard
Adams?
just curious here.
lisa Hayes
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[Audyssey] I'm on RS Monopoly this Sunday evening

2010-02-14 Thread Raul A. Gallegos
Hi. If anyone gets this soon. I'm on the game, waiting to play. Today is 
my first day playing on this server, although I'm not a newbie when it 
comes to Monopoly itself.


--
Raul A. Gallegos
http://www.asmodean.net

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Re: [Audyssey] Virus found at l-works.net blog

2010-02-14 Thread Yohandy
man, disabling antivirus is a very foolish thing to do. Sucks you had to 
find that out the hard way.




- Original Message - 
From: Damien Sadler dam...@x-sight-interactive.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Virus found at l-works.net blog



Hi Liam and all,
After trying to access the l-works.net blog, my antivirus software, Avast, 
notifies me that there is a virus on it. After disabling it to make sure 
that one of the components of Wordpress wasn't being flagged falsely, I 
found to my horror that it began to click me onto many different websites. 
As expected, the virus found its way onto my system through temporary 
internet files.
The trojan horse in action is named by Avast as JS:Small-C [Trj], and is 
to be found at http://l-works.net/blog/\{gzip}

Thanks.
Regards,
Damien.
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Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions

2010-02-14 Thread anouk
Hello, items in iron realm games all have a unique number which you sometimes 
need if there are more of them and you want to refer to a specefic one. I dont 
mind this because I use braille all the time but people who use speech 
sometimes find it troublesome.
Greetings, Anouk,
On Feb 14, 2010, at 6:15 PM, dark wrote:

 Hi.
 
 sounds interesting. Out of interest what is the problem people have with 
 items?  or is it just the need to contribute creddits to pay for them.
 
 Beware the gRue!
 
 Dark.
 - Original Message - From: anouk radix_an...@hotmail.com
 To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
 Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:58 PM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions
 
 
 Hello there, I have played lusternia in the past. It is one of the games by 
 iron realms entertainment. Some people dont like them because of the item 
 system these games employ. I am not a big fan of pvp and I found the iron 
 games quite playable even without doing that. You do not HAVE to pay for the 
 iron realms games. You can do it however and it will bring you credits which 
 you can spend on skills and special artifacts.
 As far as I know the quests in lusternia are not timed as in some other muds.
 Greetings, Anouk,
 On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:33 AM, dark wrote:
 
 Hi.
 
 I was wondering if anyone played this mudk, sinse i've had a look through 
 the docs and there are several things which seemed possibly interesting to 
 me,  but i have several questions too which weren't answered.
 
 firstly quests. Yes, I like quests and exploration far more than 
 interacting with other players,  and I have a strong dislike of pvp.
 
 Are the quests really as numerous as the game claimes?
 
 Also, are they timed?
 
 The thing which finally drove me off materia magica was the time limit on 
 quests combined with lack of accessible maps.
 
 I don't mind hunting around to find place X for a quest, but having to do 
 it within a certain time was down right annoying! I found myself running 
 around like a headless chicken frantically trying to find where the heck I 
 was supposed to go and half of the time not managing it.
 
 Even with maps or directions, I'm not sure how much I'd have appreciated 
 timed quests, sinse I tend to like exploring and detouring on the way,  
 though they might have made things easier.
 
 Then, is the matter of payment. Lusternia seems to be a commercial game, 
 but I can't for the life of me find out what precisely the price is, or 
 what the associated restrictions or rewards are. Any information would be 
 appreciated.
 
 lastly, pvp. How inforced is it in lusternia? and indeed how interesting is 
 the game to play without it?  i've seen too many games that say they 
 don't enforce pvp or competition, but then severely run out of things to do 
 if you don't participate in either (legend of the Green dragon anyone?).
 
 Any information would be appreciated,  not to mention any possible 
 quirks with working with Vip mud too.
 
 Thanks in advance,
 
 Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.

2010-02-14 Thread dark
Everyone does have an opinion, but simply saying everyone has an opinion 
and utterly dismissing someone else's reasoning is extremely unhelpful.


I offered my thoughts there as a matter of discussion,  heck, I've been 
wrong before, ih hopes that you'd offer your reasoning as to why truckz is 
an rpg, - afterall, sinse it's generally yours truly who sets the 
classifications for the games on the audiogames.net database this is 
actually an important issue.


Thanks for your thoughts and your kind acknolidgement of my reasoning on 
this issue, your politeness and open minded approach is overwhelming!


Dark.


- Original Message - 
From: Steve blindma...@comcast.net

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] watership down game.


Everyone has an opinion.
Thanks.


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Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions

2010-02-14 Thread Ryan Strunk
The problem is that each item is assigned a numerical value which it
can--and sometimes must--be referenced by. If you have a blue shirt and a
red shirt, you can't just type wear red shirt, wear 2.shirt, or wear other
shirt. You might actually have to type wear 186423. The numbers are output
in a multi-column display that takes some serious navigation. At one point I
designed a vipmud script that was able to extrapolate this data into a list,
but I lost it when my hard drive crashed. If you're a masochist--see
below--I can try to reproduce the script for you.

Beyond this, though, there are two things worth pointing out about
Lusternia:

First, quests are absolutely timed. They're also shared with anyone else who
happens to be in the area. This means that if the old woman tells you to
kill 3 jellyfish, and you manage to kill 2 while someone else kills the
other in the area, you have to wait until the monsters respawn to find a
third. By this time, all of the quest variables have reset, and you have to
start over completely. Likely the other person in the area is also starting
over, so lather, rinse, repeat.

Second, while PVP combat isn't required in Lusternia, it's something a fair
number of people take part in, and in Lusternia it's a challenge and a half
while blind.

I am generally the absolute last person who would ever play the blindness
card, especially in mud situations, but Lusternia is the rare exception.
Each of the more than two dozen guilds has perhaps 50 unique abilities, many
of which are used in combat. Each of these abilities can cause one of more
than 50 different afflictions, and each of these afflictions has a different
herbal, skill, or potion-based cure. In fact the curing system is so
advanced that many players have developed custom scripts to automate curing
entirely, and these scripts are perfectly legal with the admins. The scripts
require higher-level visual basic programming to execute and are mainly
accessible via mushclient or zmud.

But on top of all that, the walls of text one faces are amazingly high.
Imagine going on a raid with 18 other people while all of the npc's and
players of the opposing factions are fighting back. We're talking about 3
dozen people all executing commands, performing abilities, casting spells,
and generally trying to tear you and one another apart. And because there
are hundreds of abilities all being executed at once, you can't exactly gag
the extra information.

I spent more than $200 on credits and items over the course of my time in
Lusternia and ended up having to give it all up when it turned out I just
couldn't make combat work regardless of how much script sorcery I employed.

If you're looking for something quest intensive, I strongly recommend 3
kingdoms.

The basis of 3 kingdoms is that there are ... get this ... 3 kingdoms:
fantasy, science, and chaos. Fantasy is your basic swords and sorcery
setup--always fun. Science deals with anything technological be it Sci-Fi or
modern day. Beginners can troop through an army compound and battle
commanders and soldiers, wade through heaps of destruction in a
post-apocalyptic battle with mechanized warriors, or tangle with
eco-terrorists on an oil field in hopes of defusing the bomb. For everything
else, there's chaos. Ever wanted to duke it out against an army of duplo
blocks? How about pitting your skills against the cast of mortal kombat
characters armed with your trusty Halfling pipe of doom? Now you can!

The best part about 3 kingdoms, though, is that quests are required--and
some of them are crazily complex, taking literally weeks to complete. Guilds
range from warders and necromancers to cybernetic ninjas, Jedi, and
battle-suited juggernauts. If you don't want to get involved in PVP, don't;
it's optional.

To give it a look, connect to 3k.org port 23.





-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of dark
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:16 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions

Hi.

sounds interesting. Out of interest what is the problem people have with 
items?  or is it just the need to contribute creddits to pay for them.

Beware the gRue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: anouk radix_an...@hotmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions


 Hello there, I have played lusternia in the past. It is one of the games 
 by iron realms entertainment. Some people dont like them because of the 
 item system these games employ. I am not a big fan of pvp and I found the 
 iron games quite playable even without doing that. You do not HAVE to pay 
 for the iron realms games. You can do it however and it will bring you 
 credits which you can spend on skills and special artifacts.
 As far as I know the quests in lusternia are not timed as in some other 
 muds.
 Greetings, Anouk,
 On Feb 13, 

Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions

2010-02-14 Thread dark
Hmmm, I can't really see why that would specifically be a problem with 
speech, - several other games I've played such as fallthru did something 
similar.


i'll probably just have to give it a try.

Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: anouk radix_an...@hotmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions


Hello, items in iron realm games all have a unique number which you 
sometimes need if there are more of them and you want to refer to a 
specefic one. I dont mind this because I use braille all the time but 
people who use speech sometimes find it troublesome.

Greetings, Anouk,
On Feb 14, 2010, at 6:15 PM, dark wrote:


Hi.

sounds interesting. Out of interest what is the problem people have with 
items?  or is it just the need to contribute creddits to pay for 
them.


Beware the gRue!

Dark.
- Original Message - From: anouk radix_an...@hotmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions


Hello there, I have played lusternia in the past. It is one of the games 
by iron realms entertainment. Some people dont like them because of the 
item system these games employ. I am not a big fan of pvp and I found 
the iron games quite playable even without doing that. You do not HAVE 
to pay for the iron realms games. You can do it however and it will 
bring you credits which you can spend on skills and special artifacts.
As far as I know the quests in lusternia are not timed as in some other 
muds.

Greetings, Anouk,
On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:33 AM, dark wrote:


Hi.

I was wondering if anyone played this mudk, sinse i've had a look 
through the docs and there are several things which seemed possibly 
interesting to me,  but i have several questions too which weren't 
answered.


firstly quests. Yes, I like quests and exploration far more than 
interacting with other players,  and I have a strong dislike of 
pvp.


Are the quests really as numerous as the game claimes?

Also, are they timed?

The thing which finally drove me off materia magica was the time limit 
on quests combined with lack of accessible maps.


I don't mind hunting around to find place X for a quest, but having to 
do it within a certain time was down right annoying! I found myself 
running around like a headless chicken frantically trying to find where 
the heck I was supposed to go and half of the time not managing it.


Even with maps or directions, I'm not sure how much I'd have 
appreciated timed quests, sinse I tend to like exploring and detouring 
on the way,  though they might have made things easier.


Then, is the matter of payment. Lusternia seems to be a commercial 
game, but I can't for the life of me find out what precisely the price 
is, or what the associated restrictions or rewards are. Any information 
would be appreciated.


lastly, pvp. How inforced is it in lusternia? and indeed how 
interesting is the game to play without it?  i've seen too many 
games that say they don't enforce pvp or competition, but then severely 
run out of things to do if you don't participate in either (legend of 
the Green dragon anyone?).


Any information would be appreciated,  not to mention any possible 
quirks with working with Vip mud too.


Thanks in advance,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions

2010-02-14 Thread dark

Thanks Ryan, that was illuminating indeed.

I'll probably try both, also shaddow dragon has been praising assilem too.

I've just finished a huge wodge of work so am looking to relax, and trying 
muds might do that well enough, especially as sinse I gave up on materia 
magica and medaevia I actually haven't used vipmud at all.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: Ryan Strunk ryan.str...@gmail.com

To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions



The problem is that each item is assigned a numerical value which it
can--and sometimes must--be referenced by. If you have a blue shirt and a
red shirt, you can't just type wear red shirt, wear 2.shirt, or wear other
shirt. You might actually have to type wear 186423. The numbers are output
in a multi-column display that takes some serious navigation. At one point 
I
designed a vipmud script that was able to extrapolate this data into a 
list,

but I lost it when my hard drive crashed. If you're a masochist--see
below--I can try to reproduce the script for you.

Beyond this, though, there are two things worth pointing out about
Lusternia:

First, quests are absolutely timed. They're also shared with anyone else 
who

happens to be in the area. This means that if the old woman tells you to
kill 3 jellyfish, and you manage to kill 2 while someone else kills the
other in the area, you have to wait until the monsters respawn to find a
third. By this time, all of the quest variables have reset, and you have 
to
start over completely. Likely the other person in the area is also 
starting

over, so lather, rinse, repeat.

Second, while PVP combat isn't required in Lusternia, it's something a 
fair
number of people take part in, and in Lusternia it's a challenge and a 
half

while blind.

I am generally the absolute last person who would ever play the blindness
card, especially in mud situations, but Lusternia is the rare exception.
Each of the more than two dozen guilds has perhaps 50 unique abilities, 
many

of which are used in combat. Each of these abilities can cause one of more
than 50 different afflictions, and each of these afflictions has a 
different

herbal, skill, or potion-based cure. In fact the curing system is so
advanced that many players have developed custom scripts to automate 
curing
entirely, and these scripts are perfectly legal with the admins. The 
scripts

require higher-level visual basic programming to execute and are mainly
accessible via mushclient or zmud.

But on top of all that, the walls of text one faces are amazingly high.
Imagine going on a raid with 18 other people while all of the npc's and
players of the opposing factions are fighting back. We're talking about 3
dozen people all executing commands, performing abilities, casting spells,
and generally trying to tear you and one another apart. And because there
are hundreds of abilities all being executed at once, you can't exactly 
gag

the extra information.

I spent more than $200 on credits and items over the course of my time in
Lusternia and ended up having to give it all up when it turned out I just
couldn't make combat work regardless of how much script sorcery I 
employed.


If you're looking for something quest intensive, I strongly recommend 3
kingdoms.

The basis of 3 kingdoms is that there are ... get this ... 3 kingdoms:
fantasy, science, and chaos. Fantasy is your basic swords and sorcery
setup--always fun. Science deals with anything technological be it Sci-Fi 
or

modern day. Beginners can troop through an army compound and battle
commanders and soldiers, wade through heaps of destruction in a
post-apocalyptic battle with mechanized warriors, or tangle with
eco-terrorists on an oil field in hopes of defusing the bomb. For 
everything

else, there's chaos. Ever wanted to duke it out against an army of duplo
blocks? How about pitting your skills against the cast of mortal kombat
characters armed with your trusty Halfling pipe of doom? Now you can!

The best part about 3 kingdoms, though, is that quests are required--and
some of them are crazily complex, taking literally weeks to complete. 
Guilds

range from warders and necromancers to cybernetic ninjas, Jedi, and
battle-suited juggernauts. If you don't want to get involved in PVP, 
don't;

it's optional.

To give it a look, connect to 3k.org port 23.





-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of dark
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:16 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Lusternia questions

Hi.

sounds interesting. Out of interest what is the problem people have with
items?  or is it just the need to contribute creddits to pay for them.

Beware the gRue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: anouk radix_an...@hotmail.com

To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:58 PM