Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Michael, just speaking as someone who's dealt with developers over access issues for a long time, it's not a matter of speaking your mind or rights, and if you think in those terms you'll not be making friends I'm afraid. Remember, that you are essentially asking! a person to do a lot of extra work. Therefore you need to be as polite and streight forward as possible, and also know enough about the game and about access to precisely suggest what should! be changed, then work with the developer on tests. I'm afraid it's not simply a matter of shouting about your opinions, you need to both compromise and make things clear. Myself, i'd not give an application a bad review for access reasons. If it were not accessible and the developer was unwilling to make changes, I'd just shrug my shoulders and move on. All getting irritated will do is give the Vi gaming community a bad name. Reviews are afterall for people to find out about the application who might not have tried it, rather than a platform for praise and blame, and therefore should list both good and bad points that you believe an ap contains rather than just be flaming. Besides, most people will dismiss universally negative reviews as simply someone with a grudge anyway. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Joseph. Yes that is my right as a american to speek my mind. After thinking about what I was just a little bit of demanding. However I totaly agree with you. But just to show the developer that I would like him to work on the accessibility of the app I went ahead and gave it a five star. However if the accessibility does not get improve I will give it a lower score. You know awhile back when I contacted the developers of Freeverse game skee-ball I was very nice and when they had respond back to me they had a nasty atitude towards me. Even though they had a nasty atitude towards me I still explain how blind gamers would play their game and they basically said they didn't care. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I Agree completely allison. I must confess I'm a litle surprised to find Michael was in the states, sinse I assumed English was not his first language, and thus didn't comment upon his writing specifically. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Ian, there are occasions when a spellcheck is your friend. I tend to be too lazy to check every message I write, and just go on the basis if Hal says it right, it likely is. but if it is an important message such as one regarding access, I'll write it in ms word or wordpad then run a spellcheck over it. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi, i am the same and i admit it. I use to be a member of an email roleplay simming group but i ended up having to leave due to the fact i can't spell well inuff and although i know where punctuation is suppose to go i don't really use it. That is why in the past on this list i've had problems with people because of my lack of grammer and spelling. I am a bad speller but am trying to immproove that is why i do not email these game developers because i know my spelling and grammer is bad and although i would be plite in the way i right the email due to the way i right the developer would probly thing me rood due to the presantation of my email. I am trying to immproove on this one of the things i have done is slow my typing speed down delibratly to a speed that makes me realise what keys i'm pressing and if i know there is an erra and i know the correct spelling or letter needed i can quickly go and correct it with out having to comb threw the whole email looking for them. Using the Iphone is a grate help to this due to having to type slower on the on screen keyboard yes it does take longer on there to right what you want to right but i have found i am more accurate with it. When righting to a developer correct spelling and grammer is pritty important as they need to understand exactly what someone is saying. if you have sighted assistance and you have doubts that the spell checker has picked up on all your errers it might be worth getting them to glance at it and help you correct them. i reecently rerote my cv and sent it to a sighted friend who cleaned it up and made all the necessary corrections and formatting for me. I am trying to immproove my righting as i enjoy righting stories creativly and also i like email roleplay simming games i'm currently trying to find a few to join but there does not seem to be a lot of active ones around if any one knows of any i'd be grateful to know about them i know there's star treck the first era but i was a member of that before and sstruggled there. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi I agree fully, what was said should be taken in the spirit it was written. As a person or part of a community we should always strive to make the best possible first impression when contacting a dev about adding in any accessibility features with their project. Their not obligated to provide it, so handle with care like it says on fragile packages in the mail. Ron - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi Joseph, I don't believe Allison was trying to be little Miss Perfect, and her message wasn't bashing Michael in any way, shape, or form. Her message was well written, explanitory, and offered some well thought out constructive criticism where Michael's messages could improve. Constructive criticism isn't bashing, and it is helpful to be able to recognize the difference. Cheers! On 12/16/11, Joseph Weaver jweaver1...@gmail.com wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Can I laugh here now? This is getting to be a joke! Back to gaming while Mike finds some social skills. At 11:56 PM 12/16/2011, you wrote: Hey, Allis. Well first of all when I was in contact with the person who help me create De Steno Games he was very happy to work with me. I just asked him once and he was excited to do it. I was not repeating myself in the message I was just trying to show him that I know what I am talking about when it comes to accessibility. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
sadly when you get an account on samnet you can't change the signature. will make a suggestion to serotek about that since i also have that but don't use it for lists such as this. On Dec 16, 2011, at 3:33 PM, Bryan Peterson wrote: Besides, even if he's a hundred percent passionate about incorporating accessibility into the game, he can't very well work on that if he's got to constantly answer emails from us. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: alex wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi. from reading the message that you were sent Michael, it sounds like that the guys issue is not that he has stopped supporting accessibility, he wants two things, firstly he wants you to leave him alone about accessibility, as quite rightly he doesn't want accessibility to take over game development at the expense of other features. and also he doesn't like your signature advertising the system access network. I think part of the issue could also be down to communication problems, as correct me if I am wrong, but Michael, your grasp of English does seem a bit shaky some times, so perhaps also you misinterpreted the message you were sent. I have to say, I also agree your signature constantly advertising system access is annoying. So I think you should reply, and say thanks for the e mail, and also appologise for your spam signature which I think you should get rid of, from e mails and forum posts. You should also get rid of it before replying to the games author. You should reply to him though, so he knows you are still happy to talk to him if, he needs you, but this is important, after replying to his message. Leave! the! guy! alone.! you should make it clear that you would still like to give input on accessibility if he wants you to. You should remove the signature before replying, as if you leave it, it will be like you totally ignored his message and didn't listen to him. I have also noticed, that you do seem to become obsessed with games very easily, so for example the de steno games, and now this. There is nothing wrong with a hobby, but also you shouldn't nag people about accessibility constantly. These are just my thoughts, I hope they don't upset you or anyone. Alex. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Michael, in communicating with a developer you are engaging in a professional communication. There are standards for that sort of communication. It's not a question of someone being better, it's a basic question of courtesy; show the person you are communicating with that you care enough to be clear and correct in your communication. Otherwise, why should anyone take you seriously? If you were writing a cover letter for a job application in the way you write communications I have seen, I'd throw your resume away unread. This is the same level of formality, at least until you have established a relationship with the developer that permits less formal communication. It's just professional courtesy. Christopher Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of michael barnes Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 11:58 PM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hello, Joseph. I get that all the time aswell. If someone see that someone had a issue with something then they should help that person and instead of hitting them over the head. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I'll second everything Alison says, as a former adaptive technology teacher, which often spilled over into advocate, counselor and role model, the effectiveness of your communication is directly related to the care with which you prepare it and the appropriateness of the form for its audience. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Allison Mervis Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:41 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. I can only judge based on what I've read, as do most people. In case you haven't seen my other messages, I provided suggestions on how he might improve the content and overall tone of his messages. As a rehab counselor with experience in the blindness field, I feel pretty confident in stating that I know a thing or two about affective self advocacy strategies. It's my personal and professional goal to help empower others to improve their skills by imparting those strategies. If I can be of further assistance in any way, you, Michael, or any list member can feel free to please contact me off list. This thread has strayed too far off topic as it is. In this internet based world, blind and sighted people alike are judged based on how they present themselves in writing, and how they depict their interactions with other people. This is a harsh reality that we must all face. Allison 16/2011 9:07 PM, Joseph Weaver wrote: If you want to help him show him what to do, and you can't judge competency because you don't know hi like I do. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Allison Mervisalliso...@gmail.com wrote: For your information, I do not feel that I am better than any other person on this list. However, I have significant experience as a competent blind adult and as an advocate for other blind people. I am simply trying to help Michael improve his skills both as a self advocate, and most especially, as an advocate for the blind community at large. Sighted developers look at Michael's communications and most likely judge blind people as a whole based on how he presents us and himself. I refuse to be painted with such a broad brush, and will not remain silent on this issue. Have a wonderful evening. Allison On 12/16/2011 8:54 PM, Joseph Weaver wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Allison Mervisalliso...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the
[Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Michael, For all we know his attitude was justified. What was the eMail you sent? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of michael barnes Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 4:35 AM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2108/4083 - Release Date: 12/15/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
well i won't be playing this game if that's the way he's going to be. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Yeah I don't like when developers tells me they are going to make something accessible and they don't won't to hear from the people who is requesting it. I gave the app a very bad rating and review on the app store. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way... you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration. Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of your game and would like to see this, this and this changed and or added. And giving it a bad review on the app store because you didn't find it accessible probably doesn't help, either. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hey Michael. think he's talking about the add that talks about samobile.net as spam not your email. hope this helps. that's why i don't use my samobile.net email for emailing lists and things. On Dec 16, 2011, at 5:34 AM, michael barnes wrote: Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
the samnet thing is an unwanted advertisement for him. that's what he's getting at. On Dec 16, 2011, at 5:34 AM, michael barnes wrote: Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Not to be rude or anything Michael but you do sometimes have a tendency to come off as rude. That's why I didn't respond to his last post on the forum topic because I didn't want to risk eliciting just that sort of response. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:34 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I'm still willing to wait and see. Because he did seem genuinely interested in making the game more accessible. In fact I got the feeling he'd already begun to consider one of the suggestions that was put to him on the forum before it was suggested, that being creating a sort of text mode that we blindies could enable. I can't help wondering if someone wasn't just constantly posting on the forum and emailing him about it and he just lost patience with it. He'd already said that when he had the time he was going to work on it. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Ian McNamara ianandri...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. well i won't be playing this game if that's the way he's going to be. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I hate to say it Michael, but that isn't likely to improve our position any. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:04 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Yeah I don't like when developers tells me they are going to make something accessible and they don't won't to hear from the people who is requesting it. I gave the app a very bad rating and review on the app store. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
That's exactly my thought. Leaving the I've worked with other developers part out at least right at the beginning MIGHT have been a better way to go. Because Mario did seem genuinely interested in what we had to say. I just hope this hasn't destroyed our chances of gaining access to the game. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way... you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration. Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of your game and would like to see this, this and this changed and or added. And giving it a bad review on the app store because you didn't find it accessible probably doesn't help, either. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi, Agreed. Giving an app a bad rating and review just because of accessibility issues isn't likely to improve our position with the developer. By and large issues like this should be handled through private communication instead of throwing mud at the developer publically and hoping it sticks. I can't think of a worse way to get the developer interested in accessibility issues. On 12/16/11, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I hate to say it Michael, but that isn't likely to improve our position any. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:04 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Yeah I don't like when developers tells me they are going to make something accessible and they don't won't to hear from the people who is requesting it. I gave the app a very bad rating and review on the app store. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Okay, I am going to try to advocate to this developer and not do any of this stupid crap. He has an iOS device, he doesn't need to call you and you to guide him through the accessibility, all you needed to do was tell him about VoiceOver. Sending him a mail now. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Dec 16, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Bryan Peterson wrote: That's exactly my thought. Leaving the I've worked with other developers part out at least right at the beginning MIGHT have been a better way to go. Because Mario did seem genuinely interested in what we had to say. I just hope this hasn't destroyed our chances of gaining access to the game. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way... you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration. Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of your game and would like to see this, this and this changed and or added. And giving it a bad review on the app store because you didn't find it accessible probably doesn't help, either. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Not only that but I sort of got the feeling he'd decided on what he thought was the best way to go about doing it, which happened to agree with what Michael had suggested. So when a few days ago e asked us not to bring the forum topic up again I didn't. Nor did I contact him privately because I figured that when time allowed he would work on it. And if he had any questions he could have contacted one of us or joined the list if he so wished. I figured, i sort, that we'd gotten to the point where we should have just left it to him to ask for any needed information and let him do his job in the meantime. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi, Agreed. Giving an app a bad rating and review just because of accessibility issues isn't likely to improve our position with the developer. By and large issues like this should be handled through private communication instead of throwing mud at the developer publically and hoping it sticks. I can't think of a worse way to get the developer interested in accessibility issues. On 12/16/11, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I hate to say it Michael, but that isn't likely to improve our position any. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:04 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Yeah I don't like when developers tells me they are going to make something accessible and they don't won't to hear from the people who is requesting it. I gave the app a very bad rating and review on the app store. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
To be honest I'd leave him alone for the moment. He might still be upset and if so it might push him further away if too many more of us contact him. The really frustrating part is that he seemed genuinely interested in making the game available to all of us. And now he probably thinks all of us are equally arrogant and demanding. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Orin orin8...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Okay, I am going to try to advocate to this developer and not do any of this stupid crap. He has an iOS device, he doesn't need to call you and you to guide him through the accessibility, all you needed to do was tell him about VoiceOver. Sending him a mail now. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Dec 16, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Bryan Peterson wrote: That's exactly my thought. Leaving the I've worked with other developers part out at least right at the beginning MIGHT have been a better way to go. Because Mario did seem genuinely interested in what we had to say. I just hope this hasn't destroyed our chances of gaining access to the game. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way... you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration. Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of your game and would like to see this, this and this changed and or added. And giving it a bad review on the app store because you didn't find it accessible probably doesn't help, either. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web,
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Well, I hope our chances improve... and I would ask anyone else contemplating it to leave emails on the down low... I know from experience that repeated requests from people to do something usually just turns me off it all the more. Let him simmer down first and see what the next revision of the game contains... - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. That's exactly my thought. Leaving the I've worked with other developers part out at least right at the beginning MIGHT have been a better way to go. Because Mario did seem genuinely interested in what we had to say. I just hope this hasn't destroyed our chances of gaining access to the game. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way... you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration. Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of your game and would like to see this, this and this changed and or added. And giving it a bad review on the app store because you didn't find it accessible probably doesn't help, either. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi Michael, No offense, but I think the response you got was justified from the developer's perspective. Its obvious from his response that he feels you were e-mailing him too much over the accessibility topic, he felt pressured and hounded, and instead of looking at it as suggestions he saw it as spam. As a developer myself I do know where he is coming from as there are certain members of this community who simply do not know how to ask for something without being rude about it, or by trying to pressure the developer by e-mailing him/her over and over again until they are sick of it. Seriously. Before you say the developer has a bad attitude why don't you consider your own actions here and see how and why they might have contributed to the developer's attitude? I haven't seen your own post or posts to the developer so I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you some general things that tick developers off. Did you sound pushy, winy, or demanding when you wrote your post? Did you send him one message or did you constantly send him e-mails over and over again until he simply got fed up with reading them? Did you discuss it privately, or did you write him in a public forum for all to see? My point being here is that there are a number of ways you can irritate a developer without intending to just by being pushy, demanding, writing your suggestions over a public forum instead of privately, or just sending several messages on the same subject day after day. If he wants to do something he'll do it, but if you irritate the developer its likely he'll just blow you and your suggestions off as an annoyance. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:34 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Out of curiosity, where is this forum topic? I didn't know there were other people other than Michael and me trying to help out. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Clement Chou wrote: Well, I hope our chances improve... and I would ask anyone else contemplating it to leave emails on the down low... I know from experience that repeated requests from people to do something usually just turns me off it all the more. Let him simmer down first and see what the next revision of the game contains... - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. That's exactly my thought. Leaving the I've worked with other developers part out at least right at the beginning MIGHT have been a better way to go. Because Mario did seem genuinely interested in what we had to say. I just hope this hasn't destroyed our chances of gaining access to the game. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way... you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration. Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of your game and would like to see this, this and this changed and or added. And giving it a bad review on the app store because you didn't find it accessible probably doesn't help, either. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
That would be my recommendation as well. Becase if there's even a slight chance that the game will be made more accessible to us we don't want to jeopardize it. If he doesn't yet think all blind folks are spoiled, demanding brats we don't want to push him in that direction. Because from what little I've played around with Silversword I really like the atmosphere. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Well, I hope our chances improve... and I would ask anyone else contemplating it to leave emails on the down low... I know from experience that repeated requests from people to do something usually just turns me off it all the more. Let him simmer down first and see what the next revision of the game contains... - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. That's exactly my thought. Leaving the I've worked with other developers part out at least right at the beginning MIGHT have been a better way to go. Because Mario did seem genuinely interested in what we had to say. I just hope this hasn't destroyed our chances of gaining access to the game. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way... you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration. Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of your game and would like to see this, this and this changed and or added. And giving it a bad review on the app store because you didn't find it accessible probably doesn't help, either. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Well at first he wrote on the game's public forum. At that time Mario seemed genuinely open to the idea. After a few messages between him, Michael and myself Mario asked us not to raise the issue again since he thought he had a pretty good idea what he was going to try. In fact he basically agreed with something Michael had already suggested, so there should have been no reason to write him further at tis time. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi Michael, No offense, but I think the response you got was justified from the developer's perspective. Its obvious from his response that he feels you were e-mailing him too much over the accessibility topic, he felt pressured and hounded, and instead of looking at it as suggestions he saw it as spam. As a developer myself I do know where he is coming from as there are certain members of this community who simply do not know how to ask for something without being rude about it, or by trying to pressure the developer by e-mailing him/her over and over again until they are sick of it. Seriously. Before you say the developer has a bad attitude why don't you consider your own actions here and see how and why they might have contributed to the developer's attitude? I haven't seen your own post or posts to the developer so I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you some general things that tick developers off. Did you sound pushy, winy, or demanding when you wrote your post? Did you send him one message or did you constantly send him e-mails over and over again until he simply got fed up with reading them? Did you discuss it privately, or did you write him in a public forum for all to see? My point being here is that there are a number of ways you can irritate a developer without intending to just by being pushy, demanding, writing your suggestions over a public forum instead of privately, or just sending several messages on the same subject day after day. If he wants to do something he'll do it, but if you irritate the developer its likely he'll just blow you and your suggestions off as an annoyance. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:34 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
It's in Feature Requests. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Orin orin8...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Out of curiosity, where is this forum topic? I didn't know there were other people other than Michael and me trying to help out. Orin orin8...@gmail.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks Skype: orin1112 On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Clement Chou wrote: Well, I hope our chances improve... and I would ask anyone else contemplating it to leave emails on the down low... I know from experience that repeated requests from people to do something usually just turns me off it all the more. Let him simmer down first and see what the next revision of the game contains... - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. That's exactly my thought. Leaving the I've worked with other developers part out at least right at the beginning MIGHT have been a better way to go. Because Mario did seem genuinely interested in what we had to say. I just hope this hasn't destroyed our chances of gaining access to the game. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way... you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration. Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of your game and would like to see this, this and this changed and or added. And giving it a bad review on the app store because you didn't find it accessible probably doesn't help, either. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Hayden. I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on making apps accessible. I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could hear the parts where the game could be made accessible. That is all I told him. I feel that if sighted people would work beside us then I know that alot can be done with accessibility in games. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I must confess that working with develop[ers on access matters is it's own process. first, you need to be polite, second you need a clear idea of what access issues the game has and what needs doing to change it. For example, in Core exiles at one time the labels showing threat wrating of ships were nonly presented as text colour. i mailed coops, explained the problem and we went through several tests before the labled and numbered buttons that are in the game now were added. You need to remember firstly that you are essentially asking a developer to take his/her time out to do extra work on what is for them a complete project, essentially just for charity. Also, you need a clear objective in mind. Asking someone to just make a map in text is no good, you need to look at the current map, examine what information the visually impared player needs and think of a way the developer could add that information in an accessible form without too much work. Also, you need to be prepared to compromise. in warriors 2, i was able to get the developer to add textual coordinates to the dungeons, however he wasn't able to add any other textual information such as how long the passage you were in continued. however, instead of slandering his game, I just accept this is what is needed for access in Warriors 2. If I had an iphone I'd be glad to try silver sword and work on this myself, and perhaps to speak some politic words to the developer. As it is, I'm afraid now that the cause of access in silver sword may have been shot in the foot. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi Bryan, Right. I do that myself, and it is amazing how many blind people out there who can't be patient enough for the developer to do something on his own schedule, in his own time, and in his own way. Instead they have to repeatedly nag, nag, nag until the developer just gets irritated and doesn't want to listen to it any more. When the developer sends them the appropriate stop nagging me to death message the blind party acts all offended and upset over it. I don't know about Mario, but I personally find if someone nags me about something the less I want to do it. It seems to generate the opposite effect the person wants. I get irritated and angry at the nagging party, and feel like telling them to put an egg in their shoe and beat it. By the looks of it Mario is feeling this way at Michael's constant posting on the access issue. Guys like Michael seriously need to understand where to draw the line between sending a suggestion and nagging the developer to death. Cheers! On 12/16/11, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Not only that but I sort of got the feeling he'd decided on what he thought was the best way to go about doing it, which happened to agree with what Michael had suggested. So when a few days ago e asked us not to bring the forum topic up again I didn't. Nor did I contact him privately because I figured that when time allowed he would work on it. And if he had any questions he could have contacted one of us or joined the list if he so wished. I figured, i sort, that we'd gotten to the point where we should have just left it to him to ask for any needed information and let him do his job in the meantime. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
hi Orin. I hope you can salvage this situation, sinse it would be a real shame if an rpg game got lost because of bad communications. if I had an I os device, I'd gladly talk to the developer myself. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I'm almost afraid to now. Smile. Because he was very explicit on his last post on the forum. Polite, yes, but he made his wishes known. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. hi Orin. I hope you can salvage this situation, sinse it would be a real shame if an rpg game got lost because of bad communications. if I had an I os device, I'd gladly talk to the developer myself. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
You have my full agreement there. But at the same time part of me just wonders... why isn't this common sense? It isn't like it takes a genius to realize that a suggestion and nagging are not one and the same... most sighted people get this concept. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi Bryan, Right. I do that myself, and it is amazing how many blind people out there who can't be patient enough for the developer to do something on his own schedule, in his own time, and in his own way. Instead they have to repeatedly nag, nag, nag until the developer just gets irritated and doesn't want to listen to it any more. When the developer sends them the appropriate stop nagging me to death message the blind party acts all offended and upset over it. I don't know about Mario, but I personally find if someone nags me about something the less I want to do it. It seems to generate the opposite effect the person wants. I get irritated and angry at the nagging party, and feel like telling them to put an egg in their shoe and beat it. By the looks of it Mario is feeling this way at Michael's constant posting on the access issue. Guys like Michael seriously need to understand where to draw the line between sending a suggestion and nagging the developer to death. Cheers! On 12/16/11, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Not only that but I sort of got the feeling he'd decided on what he thought was the best way to go about doing it, which happened to agree with what Michael had suggested. So when a few days ago e asked us not to bring the forum topic up again I didn't. Nor did I contact him privately because I figured that when time allowed he would work on it. And if he had any questions he could have contacted one of us or joined the list if he so wished. I figured, i sort, that we'd gotten to the point where we should have just left it to him to ask for any needed information and let him do his job in the meantime. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
He even said at first he was exited by the emails i reckon now see what happens i would say it's good that you are working on getting games more accessable but i'd say in the future learn from this and send one email to the developer saying the stuff you feel and explain to them about voice over and if you get a posative responce from that then explain that if they want any more information to email you and just leave it to them then as people are saying this guy probly got anoyed by the amount of times he was being emailed about accessability he'd agreed to do it so should have been left to it really. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Michael, I don't see any bad attitude in his message at all. He's simply asking you to stop spamming him, and to stop spamming his forum. It's a very reasonable request, and it has nothing to do with accessibility. I see no need to demonize him over it. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 5:34 AM, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
True, you should of let him come forth and ask is it useable and then move to next problem. If he determent accessibility to be to much of a nag. He just might mention it on the apple dev list and then accessibility will be a missed thought. Give a good experience about accessibility and he might show others a real need in using it. At 10:22 AM 12/16/2011, you wrote: Well at first he wrote on the game's public forum. At that time Mario seemed genuinely open to the idea. After a few messages between him, Michael and myself Mario asked us not to raise the issue again since he thought he had a pretty good idea what he was going to try. In fact he basically agreed with something Michael had already suggested, so there should have been no reason to write him further at tis time. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi Michael, No offense, but I think the response you got was justified from the developer's perspective. Its obvious from his response that he feels you were e-mailing him too much over the accessibility topic, he felt pressured and hounded, and instead of looking at it as suggestions he saw it as spam. As a developer myself I do know where he is coming from as there are certain members of this community who simply do not know how to ask for something without being rude about it, or by trying to pressure the developer by e-mailing him/her over and over again until they are sick of it. Seriously. Before you say the developer has a bad attitude why don't you consider your own actions here and see how and why they might have contributed to the developer's attitude? I haven't seen your own post or posts to the developer so I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you some general things that tick developers off. Did you sound pushy, winy, or demanding when you wrote your post? Did you send him one message or did you constantly send him e-mails over and over again until he simply got fed up with reading them? Did you discuss it privately, or did you write him in a public forum for all to see? My point being here is that there are a number of ways you can irritate a developer without intending to just by being pushy, demanding, writing your suggestions over a public forum instead of privately, or just sending several messages on the same subject day after day. If he wants to do something he'll do it, but if you irritate the developer its likely he'll just blow you and your suggestions off as an annoyance. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:34 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Sounds more like a public temper tantrum. Then a real review on product. Try to be mature about reviews and such, because acting like a child around adults will get you ignored! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I agree. I gave it a positive review because despite the fact that it's not entirely playable I was still able to get a feel for the atmosphere and liked it. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Sounds more like a public temper tantrum. Then a real review on product. Try to be mature about reviews and such, because acting like a child around adults will get you ignored! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi. from reading the message that you were sent Michael, it sounds like that the guys issue is not that he has stopped supporting accessibility, he wants two things, firstly he wants you to leave him alone about accessibility, as quite rightly he doesn't want accessibility to take over game development at the expense of other features. and also he doesn't like your signature advertising the system access network. I think part of the issue could also be down to communication problems, as correct me if I am wrong, but Michael, your grasp of English does seem a bit shaky some times, so perhaps also you misinterpreted the message you were sent. I have to say, I also agree your signature constantly advertising system access is annoying. So I think you should reply, and say thanks for the e mail, and also appologise for your spam signature which I think you should get rid of, from e mails and forum posts. You should also get rid of it before replying to the games author. You should reply to him though, so he knows you are still happy to talk to him if, he needs you, but this is important, after replying to his message. Leave! the! guy! alone.! you should make it clear that you would still like to give input on accessibility if he wants you to. You should remove the signature before replying, as if you leave it, it will be like you totally ignored his message and didn't listen to him. I have also noticed, that you do seem to become obsessed with games very easily, so for example the de steno games, and now this. There is nothing wrong with a hobby, but also you shouldn't nag people about accessibility constantly. These are just my thoughts, I hope they don't upset you or anyone. Alex. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Besides, even if he's a hundred percent passionate about incorporating accessibility into the game, he can't very well work on that if he's got to constantly answer emails from us. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: alex wallis alexwallis...@googlemail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi. from reading the message that you were sent Michael, it sounds like that the guys issue is not that he has stopped supporting accessibility, he wants two things, firstly he wants you to leave him alone about accessibility, as quite rightly he doesn't want accessibility to take over game development at the expense of other features. and also he doesn't like your signature advertising the system access network. I think part of the issue could also be down to communication problems, as correct me if I am wrong, but Michael, your grasp of English does seem a bit shaky some times, so perhaps also you misinterpreted the message you were sent. I have to say, I also agree your signature constantly advertising system access is annoying. So I think you should reply, and say thanks for the e mail, and also appologise for your spam signature which I think you should get rid of, from e mails and forum posts. You should also get rid of it before replying to the games author. You should reply to him though, so he knows you are still happy to talk to him if, he needs you, but this is important, after replying to his message. Leave! the! guy! alone.! you should make it clear that you would still like to give input on accessibility if he wants you to. You should remove the signature before replying, as if you leave it, it will be like you totally ignored his message and didn't listen to him. I have also noticed, that you do seem to become obsessed with games very easily, so for example the de steno games, and now this. There is nothing wrong with a hobby, but also you shouldn't nag people about accessibility constantly. These are just my thoughts, I hope they don't upset you or anyone. Alex. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Part of being a strong advocate is not flying off the handle when something doesn't happen as quickly as you'd like it to. Mario mentioned that he had an idea of what to do in order to fix the accessibility issues which still existed in Silversword. Even though you knew this Michael, you still continued to email him far more often than was warranted. Now Mario may decide not to implement further accessibility in Silversword, and I wouldn't entirely blame him. As blind computer users, virtually every interaction we have with a sighted developer is an opportunity to educate them about our intelligence, competence, and ability to advocate for ourselves appropriately. When we don't do this, we leave the sighted developer with a negative view that he or she could ascribe to all blind people with whom they interact in the future. This is why we must always conduct ourselves with the utmost professionalism and courtesy when asking a developer to consider accessibility. I sincerely hope that you have learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Unfortunately, your mistake may have cost the blind gaming community the ability to fully enjoy a really interesting sounding game. Please consider this the next time you wish to advocate for the community at large. If you want to become a successful advocate, you will need to change your tactics significantly. Allison On 12/16/2011 6:19 AM, Bryan Peterson wrote: Not to be rude or anything Michael but you do sometimes have a tendency to come off as rude. That's why I didn't respond to his last post on the forum topic because I didn't want to risk eliciting just that sort of response. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:34 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
So well said I give you a great complement for that exactly what I thought Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 4:52 PM, Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com wrote: Part of being a strong advocate is not flying off the handle when something doesn't happen as quickly as you'd like it to. Mario mentioned that he had an idea of what to do in order to fix the accessibility issues which still existed in Silversword. Even though you knew this Michael, you still continued to email him far more often than was warranted. Now Mario may decide not to implement further accessibility in Silversword, and I wouldn't entirely blame him. As blind computer users, virtually every interaction we have with a sighted developer is an opportunity to educate them about our intelligence, competence, and ability to advocate for ourselves appropriately. When we don't do this, we leave the sighted developer with a negative view that he or she could ascribe to all blind people with whom they interact in the future. This is why we must always conduct ourselves with the utmost professionalism and courtesy when asking a developer to consider accessibility. I sincerely hope that you have learned a valuable lesson from this experience. Unfortunately, your mistake may have cost the blind gaming community the ability to fully enjoy a really interesting sounding game. Please consider this the next time you wish to advocate for the community at large. If you want to become a successful advocate, you will need to change your tactics significantly. Allison On 12/16/2011 6:19 AM, Bryan Peterson wrote: Not to be rude or anything Michael but you do sometimes have a tendency to come off as rude. That's why I didn't respond to his last post on the forum topic because I didn't want to risk eliciting just that sort of response. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:34 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hey, I just re submitted my review of the app. I did give it a five star rating and I am going to apologize to Mario for my demanding atitude towards him. Yes I know sometimes it seem that I am demanding but I just was trying to help. I am sorry for all this problems. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I do believe that we don't need to give bad reviews but to give fair reviews for example I'm not going to lie if the game isn't accessible at all I may give two stars out of five or if it's half way accessible then two and a half or three. I use to be a programmer but am not anymore, developers need test for accessibility and list yes or no in the info. If I pay for an app and it's not compatible with voice over I have the right to rate down for incomplete work on the developers part. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Michael, No offense, but I think the response you got was justified from the developer's perspective. Its obvious from his response that he feels you were e-mailing him too much over the accessibility topic, he felt pressured and hounded, and instead of looking at it as suggestions he saw it as spam. As a developer myself I do know where he is coming from as there are certain members of this community who simply do not know how to ask for something without being rude about it, or by trying to pressure the developer by e-mailing him/her over and over again until they are sick of it. Seriously. Before you say the developer has a bad attitude why don't you consider your own actions here and see how and why they might have contributed to the developer's attitude? I haven't seen your own post or posts to the developer so I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you some general things that tick developers off. Did you sound pushy, winy, or demanding when you wrote your post? Did you send him one message or did you constantly send him e-mails over and over again until he simply got fed up with reading them? Did you discuss it privately, or did you write him in a public forum for all to see? My point being here is that there are a number of ways you can irritate a developer without intending to just by being pushy, demanding, writing your suggestions over a public forum instead of privately, or just sending several messages on the same subject day after day. If he wants to do something he'll do it, but if you irritate the developer its likely he'll just blow you and your suggestions off as an annoyance. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:34 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
You were not demanding and you do have a right to rank down as long as you are fair, I probably would have given 3 to 4 stars fairly for the access issues. You just need to be aware of your wording and rate honestly and fairly. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:11 PM, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hey, Joseph. Yes that is my right as a american to speek my mind. After thinking about what I was just a little bit of demanding. However I totaly agree with you. But just to show the developer that I would like him to work on the accessibility of the app I went ahead and gave it a five star. However if the accessibility does not get improve I will give it a lower score. You know awhile back when I contacted the developers of Freeverse game skee-ball I was very nice and when they had respond back to me they had a nasty atitude towards me. Even though they had a nasty atitude towards me I still explain how blind gamers would play their game and they basically said they didn't care. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Here is the email that I had wrote and send to Mario and then you be the judge about it. Hello, Mario. First how is everything going with you on this Christmas holiday? I am wondering how the progress is going on the accessibility for the game? Is there a new version going to be release? I would be happy to beta test the new version for you if you are going to try to add more accessibility support. I know there are ways to fix the accessibility issues where the game don't have to be change and both the sighted and blind gamers will like the game. It's like I was saying on the forum the other day if you was to give the audyssey gamers list a try you will meet game developers who are totally blind and low vision. The web address is http://www.audyssey.org It is free to join the list and we would be happy to have you on there! We disguss gaming for the blind and low vision people. We talk about accessible games and games that was not meant to be accessible but can be played by a blind person. And we also talk about games that are not accessible to the blind and low vision people. I feel that we can work togather to improve your wonderful game for both blind and low vision and sighted people alike. I just got done working with another developer who had never knew about accessibility for people who are blind and low vision. When we put to together my first ever IOS app he said that he would like to work with me again to make unaccessible items into accessible for the blind and low vision people. He also stated that he would still be making things for the sighted aswell. The reason I share this with you is for the reason to show the importance of accessibility and working with people to help to improve this on your game. If you would like to talk about this further please feel free and give me a call my number is. 706-979-0275 While talking to you on the phone I can play the game and show you where and how you can adapt it for the blind and low vision people. Look forward in hearing from you thanks for your game and your -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I have SA to and I don't think you can remove that. I don't like some of other peoples signature either but I don't threaten them like this guys I just do the adult thing and over look it. NWA Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 8:57 AM, Brandon Misch bmisch2...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Michael. think he's talking about the add that talks about samobile.net as spam not your email. hope this helps. that's why i don't use my samobile.net email for emailing lists and things. On Dec 16, 2011, at 5:34 AM, michael barnes wrote: Hey, All. I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game. And he wrote a bad response to me. So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and low vision people. Here is the message he sent me. Hi Michael, at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam. Stop spamming me, will you? Treat this message as a nice way to ask for: - stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted advertisments - stop using the game forum for these things You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not on cost of my work. Herzliche Grüße Kind regards -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hey, Allis. Well first of all when I was in contact with the person who help me create De Steno Games he was very happy to work with me. I just asked him once and he was excited to do it. I was not repeating myself in the message I was just trying to show him that I know what I am talking about when it comes to accessibility. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Even though that message in and of itself was not particularly demanding, I know that's not the first message you've sent to Mario. That's the type of message that you send a few weeks or even a few months into the process of making accessibility inroads. Give the poor man time to implement his ideas before pestering him. Allison On 12/16/2011 8:40 PM, michael barnes wrote: Here is the email that I had wrote and send to Mario and then you be the judge about it. Hello, Mario. First how is everything going with you on this Christmas holiday? I am wondering how the progress is going on the accessibility for the game? Is there a new version going to be release? I would be happy to beta test the new version for you if you are going to try to add more accessibility support. I know there are ways to fix the accessibility issues where the game don't have to be change and both the sighted and blind gamers will like the game. It's like I was saying on the forum the other day if you was to give the audyssey gamers list a try you will meet game developers who are totally blind and low vision. The web address is http://www.audyssey.org It is free to join the list and we would be happy to have you on there! We disguss gaming for the blind and low vision people. We talk about accessible games and games that was not meant to be accessible but can be played by a blind person. And we also talk about games that are not accessible to the blind and low vision people. I feel that we can work togather to improve your wonderful game for both blind and low vision and sighted people alike. I just got done working with another developer who had never knew about accessibility for people who are blind and low vision. When we put to together my first ever IOS app he said that he would like to work with me again to make unaccessible items into accessible for the blind and low vision people. He also stated that he would still be making things for the sighted aswell. The reason I share this with you is for the reason to show the importance of accessibility and working with people to help to improve this on your game. If you would like to talk about this further please feel free and give me a call my number is. 706-979-0275 While talking to you on the phone I can play the game and show you where and how you can adapt it for the blind and low vision people. Look forward in hearing from you thanks for your game and your --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hello, Joseph. I get that all the time aswell. If someone see that someone had a issue with something then they should help that person and instead of hitting them over the head. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
For your information, I do not feel that I am better than any other person on this list. However, I have significant experience as a competent blind adult and as an advocate for other blind people. I am simply trying to help Michael improve his skills both as a self advocate, and most especially, as an advocate for the blind community at large. Sighted developers look at Michael's communications and most likely judge blind people as a whole based on how he presents us and himself. I refuse to be painted with such a broad brush, and will not remain silent on this issue. Have a wonderful evening. Allison On 12/16/2011 8:54 PM, Joseph Weaver wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Allison Mervisalliso...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi. Your message itself isn't all that bad. It's actually pretty nice in my opinion. But more than one message like this would get annoying. And I think he thought the audyssey stuff was an advertisement not the email services provided by the serotech system access network, which I do believe can't be removed. I don't even know if it can be edited out of each individual message. I guess just too many messages got on his knerves. especially if he apparently had asked everyone to stop discussing it. When you provide a public product and you have public knowledge about that product you better be prepared to take lots of crap over it. There's not really any way around it. I haven't actually produced an audio game but I do have a few much less important things that I have done and it happens to me too. I have to appreciate the bad the good and the neutral. I think providing your number would be a good idea myself. But he probably saw it all as being pushy, much more so than necessary. I would say more, but I'm not sure I would be doing any good if I did since you've already said you changed your rating and planned to apologized and everything. Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.14 portable. On 12/16/2011 11:40 PM, michael barnes wrote: Here is the email that I had wrote and send to Mario and then you be the judge about it. Hello, Mario. First how is everything going with you on this Christmas holiday? I am wondering how the progress is going on the accessibility for the game? Is there a new version going to be release? I would be happy to beta test the new version for you if you are going to try to add more accessibility support. I know there are ways to fix the accessibility issues where the game don't have to be change and both the sighted and blind gamers will like the game. It's like I was saying on the forum the other day if you was to give the audyssey gamers list a try you will meet game developers who are totally blind and low vision. The web address is http://www.audyssey.org It is free to join the list and we would be happy to have you on there! We disguss gaming for the blind and low vision people. We talk about accessible games and games that was not meant to be accessible but can be played by a blind person. And we also talk about games that are not accessible to the blind and low vision people. I feel that we can work togather to improve your wonderful game for both blind and low vision and sighted people alike. I just got done working with another developer who had never knew about accessibility for people who are blind and low vision. When we put to together my first ever IOS app he said that he would like to work with me again to make unaccessible items into accessible for the blind and low vision people. He also stated that he would still be making things for the sighted aswell. The reason I share this with you is for the reason to show the importance of accessibility and working with people to help to improve this on your game. If you would like to talk about this further please feel free and give me a call my number is. 706-979-0275 While talking to you on the phone I can play the game and show you where and how you can adapt it for the blind and low vision people. Look forward in hearing from you thanks for your game and your --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
If you want to help him show him what to do, and you can't judge competency because you don't know hi like I do. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com wrote: For your information, I do not feel that I am better than any other person on this list. However, I have significant experience as a competent blind adult and as an advocate for other blind people. I am simply trying to help Michael improve his skills both as a self advocate, and most especially, as an advocate for the blind community at large. Sighted developers look at Michael's communications and most likely judge blind people as a whole based on how he presents us and himself. I refuse to be painted with such a broad brush, and will not remain silent on this issue. Have a wonderful evening. Allison On 12/16/2011 8:54 PM, Joseph Weaver wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Allison Mervisalliso...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi Joseph, I don't believe Allison was trying to be little Miss Perfect, and her message wasn't bashing Michael in any way, shape, or form. Her message was well written, explanitory, and offered some well thought out constructive criticism where Michael's messages could improve. Constructive criticism isn't bashing, and it is helpful to be able to recognize the difference. Cheers! On 12/16/11, Joseph Weaver jweaver1...@gmail.com wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I monitor this list every day and a lot of people own here pick on other people that they don't even know, I will respectfully agree to disagree, no big deal :-) Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:10 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Joseph, I don't believe Allison was trying to be little Miss Perfect, and her message wasn't bashing Michael in any way, shape, or form. Her message was well written, explanitory, and offered some well thought out constructive criticism where Michael's messages could improve. Constructive criticism isn't bashing, and it is helpful to be able to recognize the difference. Cheers! On 12/16/11, Joseph Weaver jweaver1...@gmail.com wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
You need to give these things time. He'd really only just heard of the idea of game accessibility. Then he probably has to work out how best to do whatever he's going to do if he decides it's worth it. Thing is Michael, whe it comes to something like this it's est, even if the developer seems interested after your initial comunication, to let him or her come to you with their own questions at first. Andlet them update us as to the progress should they choose to do so. After all the developer can't work if he's constantly got to answer Email. Mario probably felt pressured and nobody likes that feeling. Sometimes it's best to leave well enough alone. After all it hadn't even been a week. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Here is the email that I had wrote and send to Mario and then you be the judge about it. Hello, Mario. First how is everything going with you on this Christmas holiday? I am wondering how the progress is going on the accessibility for the game? Is there a new version going to be release? I would be happy to beta test the new version for you if you are going to try to add more accessibility support. I know there are ways to fix the accessibility issues where the game don't have to be change and both the sighted and blind gamers will like the game. It's like I was saying on the forum the other day if you was to give the audyssey gamers list a try you will meet game developers who are totally blind and low vision. The web address is http://www.audyssey.org It is free to join the list and we would be happy to have you on there! We disguss gaming for the blind and low vision people. We talk about accessible games and games that was not meant to be accessible but can be played by a blind person. And we also talk about games that are not accessible to the blind and low vision people. I feel that we can work togather to improve your wonderful game for both blind and low vision and sighted people alike. I just got done working with another developer who had never knew about accessibility for people who are blind and low vision. When we put to together my first ever IOS app he said that he would like to work with me again to make unaccessible items into accessible for the blind and low vision people. He also stated that he would still be making things for the sighted aswell. The reason I share this with you is for the reason to show the importance of accessibility and working with people to help to improve this on your game. If you would like to talk about this further please feel free and give me a call my number is. 706-979-0275 While talking to you on the phone I can play the game and show you where and how you can adapt it for the blind and low vision people. Look forward in hearing from you thanks for your game and your -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
And be patient. If you don't hear anything right away don't write him again. Heck, we haven't really had any new news on MOTA in a while and I haven't written about it because I know that when there's something worth reporting Thomas will let us know. The same is true in Mario's case. If and when there's something worth reporting he'll make it known. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Not to be rude but aren't we being just a bit hypocritical with that last statement? Allison made some very good points. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Joseph Weaver jweaver1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
But each developer is different. If thhey want to work with you that's teir choice. Bt it's also thheir choice if they'd prefer to find out how to do the job on their own. Every situation's going to be different. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hey, Allis. Well first of all when I was in contact with the person who help me create De Steno Games he was very happy to work with me. I just asked him once and he was excited to do it. I was not repeating myself in the message I was just trying to show him that I know what I am talking about when it comes to accessibility. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi Michael, Well, as for your message itself I don't really see anything offensive about it in and of itself, but as others have mentioned I think it is a case of one message too many. As I understand it Mario asked you and Bryan to close the topic, and about a week later you send him this message wanting a progress report. A week isn't enough time to get anything done, and considering he had already asked you to drop the subject and you went and wrote him again anyway Mario probably has a right to be annoyed with you because he feels like you are nagging him. Had you let a month or two go by before sending this message he may have been more receptive to it. That's my take of the situation. Cheers! On 12/16/11, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: Here is the email that I had wrote and send to Mario and then you be the judge about it. Hello, Mario. First how is everything going with you on this Christmas holiday? I am wondering how the progress is going on the accessibility for the game? Is there a new version going to be release? I would be happy to beta test the new version for you if you are going to try to add more accessibility support. I know there are ways to fix the accessibility issues where the game don't have to be change and both the sighted and blind gamers will like the game. It's like I was saying on the forum the other day if you was to give the audyssey gamers list a try you will meet game developers who are totally blind and low vision. The web address is http://www.audyssey.org It is free to join the list and we would be happy to have you on there! We disguss gaming for the blind and low vision people. We talk about accessible games and games that was not meant to be accessible but can be played by a blind person. And we also talk about games that are not accessible to the blind and low vision people. I feel that we can work togather to improve your wonderful game for both blind and low vision and sighted people alike. I just got done working with another developer who had never knew about accessibility for people who are blind and low vision. When we put to together my first ever IOS app he said that he would like to work with me again to make unaccessible items into accessible for the blind and low vision people. He also stated that he would still be making things for the sighted aswell. The reason I share this with you is for the reason to show the importance of accessibility and working with people to help to improve this on your game. If you would like to talk about this further please feel free and give me a call my number is. 706-979-0275 While talking to you on the phone I can play the game and show you where and how you can adapt it for the blind and low vision people. Look forward in hearing from you thanks for your game and your -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Hi, i am the same and i admit it. I use to be a member of an email roleplay simming group but i ended up having to leave due to the fact i can't spell well inuff and although i know where punctuation is suppose to go i don't really use it. That is why in the past on this list i've had problems with people because of my lack of grammer and spelling. I am a bad speller but am trying to immproove that is why i do not email these game developers because i know my spelling and grammer is bad and although i would be plite in the way i right the email due to the way i right the developer would probly thing me rood due to the presantation of my email. I am trying to immproove on this one of the things i have done is slow my typing speed down delibratly to a speed that makes me realise what keys i'm pressing and if i know there is an erra and i know the correct spelling or letter needed i can quickly go and correct it with out having to comb threw the whole email looking for them. Using the Iphone is a grate help to this due to having to type slower on the on screen keyboard yes it does take longer on there to right what you want to right but i have found i am more accurate with it. When righting to a developer correct spelling and grammer is pritty important as they need to understand exactly what someone is saying. if you have sighted assistance and you have doubts that the spell checker has picked up on all your errers it might be worth getting them to glance at it and help you correct them. i reecently rerote my cv and sent it to a sighted friend who cleaned it up and made all the necessary corrections and formatting for me. I am trying to immproove my righting as i enjoy righting stories creativly and also i like email roleplay simming games i'm currently trying to find a few to join but there does not seem to be a lot of active ones around if any one knows of any i'd be grateful to know about them i know there's star treck the first era but i was a member of that before and sstruggled there. Ian McNamara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
It wasn't even a week. It was probably a matter of two days or so. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Hi Michael, Well, as for your message itself I don't really see anything offensive about it in and of itself, but as others have mentioned I think it is a case of one message too many. As I understand it Mario asked you and Bryan to close the topic, and about a week later you send him this message wanting a progress report. A week isn't enough time to get anything done, and considering he had already asked you to drop the subject and you went and wrote him again anyway Mario probably has a right to be annoyed with you because he feels like you are nagging him. Had you let a month or two go by before sending this message he may have been more receptive to it. That's my take of the situation. Cheers! On 12/16/11, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: Here is the email that I had wrote and send to Mario and then you be the judge about it. Hello, Mario. First how is everything going with you on this Christmas holiday? I am wondering how the progress is going on the accessibility for the game? Is there a new version going to be release? I would be happy to beta test the new version for you if you are going to try to add more accessibility support. I know there are ways to fix the accessibility issues where the game don't have to be change and both the sighted and blind gamers will like the game. It's like I was saying on the forum the other day if you was to give the audyssey gamers list a try you will meet game developers who are totally blind and low vision. The web address is http://www.audyssey.org It is free to join the list and we would be happy to have you on there! We disguss gaming for the blind and low vision people. We talk about accessible games and games that was not meant to be accessible but can be played by a blind person. And we also talk about games that are not accessible to the blind and low vision people. I feel that we can work togather to improve your wonderful game for both blind and low vision and sighted people alike. I just got done working with another developer who had never knew about accessibility for people who are blind and low vision. When we put to together my first ever IOS app he said that he would like to work with me again to make unaccessible items into accessible for the blind and low vision people. He also stated that he would still be making things for the sighted aswell. The reason I share this with you is for the reason to show the importance of accessibility and working with people to help to improve this on your game. If you would like to talk about this further please feel free and give me a call my number is. 706-979-0275 While talking to you on the phone I can play the game and show you where and how you can adapt it for the blind and low vision people. Look forward in hearing from you thanks for your game and your -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
I can only judge based on what I've read, as do most people. In case you haven't seen my other messages, I provided suggestions on how he might improve the content and overall tone of his messages. As a rehab counselor with experience in the blindness field, I feel pretty confident in stating that I know a thing or two about affective self advocacy strategies. It's my personal and professional goal to help empower others to improve their skills by imparting those strategies. If I can be of further assistance in any way, you, Michael, or any list member can feel free to please contact me off list. This thread has strayed too far off topic as it is. In this internet based world, blind and sighted people alike are judged based on how they present themselves in writing, and how they depict their interactions with other people. This is a harsh reality that we must all face. Allison 16/2011 9:07 PM, Joseph Weaver wrote: If you want to help him show him what to do, and you can't judge competency because you don't know hi like I do. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Allison Mervisalliso...@gmail.com wrote: For your information, I do not feel that I am better than any other person on this list. However, I have significant experience as a competent blind adult and as an advocate for other blind people. I am simply trying to help Michael improve his skills both as a self advocate, and most especially, as an advocate for the blind community at large. Sighted developers look at Michael's communications and most likely judge blind people as a whole based on how he presents us and himself. I refuse to be painted with such a broad brush, and will not remain silent on this issue. Have a wonderful evening. Allison On 12/16/2011 8:54 PM, Joseph Weaver wrote: Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs. Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than everyone else Sent from my iPhone On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Allison Mervisalliso...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your sentences very well, and your messages always sound as though you've written them in a terrible hurry. This combination of factors would make anyone sound demanding and rude. If you'd take an extra five minutes to run spell checker and proofread your messages, that would go a long way towards changing the overall tone. You also need to be a lot more specific when you're communicating with developers. Judging by your communications to the list, you've basically kept saying to poor Mario, This isn't accessible, fix it, over and over again. Any time one of us has suggested a particular game feature which needs to be improved, you respond almost as though you haven't played the game yourself. Sometimes I think you simply loaded the intro screen of the game, saw that the buttons weren't initially labeled, and shot off an email to the developer with no clear idea of the specific changes that needed to be made. This placed a terribly heavy burden on Mario. I suspect that all of the things he learned about implementing the level of accessibility which currently exists within the game was a result of his own research and hard work. He should be commended for that. These are just a few more things to keep in mind as you hopefully work to improve your advocacy skills. Allison On 12/16/2011 7:11 PM, michael barnes wrote: Well I know someone of you think I was being too demanding and rude but I was just trying to see if I could be a part of the team to improve the game. I have shown my email to other people and they agree with me that all I was trying to do is help. When I have done what all of you are talking about developers don't want to make their games accessible. I was only doing this because as a blind gamer and helping to make a IOS app I could have gave some good pointers. I know that folks on here ain't trying to call me rude when some of y'all have nasty atitudes with some people in the past. If you thought I was being a pest I wasn't. I only sent him one email after I join the forum which was this morning. I am done talking about this subject. So please lets quit talking about it. The next time I speek to a developer about IOS I know what I need to do. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or
Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
That was very well stated Brian. I could not agree more. Allison On 12/16/2011 9:15 PM, Bryan Peterson wrote: You need to give these things time. He'd really only just heard of the idea of game accessibility. Then he probably has to work out how best to do whatever he's going to do if he decides it's worth it. Thing is Michael, whe it comes to something like this it's est, even if the developer seems interested after your initial comunication, to let him or her come to you with their own questions at first. Andlet them update us as to the progress should they choose to do so. After all the developer can't work if he's constantly got to answer Email. Mario probably felt pressured and nobody likes that feeling. Sometimes it's best to leave well enough alone. After all it hadn't even been a week. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind. Here is the email that I had wrote and send to Mario and then you be the judge about it. Hello, Mario. First how is everything going with you on this Christmas holiday? I am wondering how the progress is going on the accessibility for the game? Is there a new version going to be release? I would be happy to beta test the new version for you if you are going to try to add more accessibility support. I know there are ways to fix the accessibility issues where the game don't have to be change and both the sighted and blind gamers will like the game. It's like I was saying on the forum the other day if you was to give the audyssey gamers list a try you will meet game developers who are totally blind and low vision. The web address is http://www.audyssey.org It is free to join the list and we would be happy to have you on there! We disguss gaming for the blind and low vision people. We talk about accessible games and games that was not meant to be accessible but can be played by a blind person. And we also talk about games that are not accessible to the blind and low vision people. I feel that we can work togather to improve your wonderful game for both blind and low vision and sighted people alike. I just got done working with another developer who had never knew about accessibility for people who are blind and low vision. When we put to together my first ever IOS app he said that he would like to work with me again to make unaccessible items into accessible for the blind and low vision people. He also stated that he would still be making things for the sighted aswell. The reason I share this with you is for the reason to show the importance of accessibility and working with people to help to improve this on your game. If you would like to talk about this further please feel free and give me a call my number is. 706-979-0275 While talking to you on the phone I can play the game and show you where and how you can adapt it for the blind and low vision people. Look forward in hearing from you thanks for your game and your -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
