Hello,
Why is Super Dog not listed as a commercial product?
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Ah, people not paying attention...
Anyway, it's not a commercial game, it's just the engine is. Basically
the GMA game engine was apparently made to make exclusively paid games.
It's all prepared for that with the registration system and everything.
It also has a built in demo mode which,
Is supershot free? Just that I wanted that game a few years ago and I
couldn't find the price...
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of pitermach
Sent: 11 December 2011 09:50
To: birdlover2...@hotmail.com; Gamers Discussion
Because it's not commercial, the game is free, download and play as much as
you like and you won't need to pay Phil anything for it.
it's just that as Tom explained the gma engine wasn't really created for
making free games. You can make commercial games and demos of one level, but
not a free
Hi Hayden,
Oh, cool, I didn't know that NVDA could use the sapi5 voices. Thanks for letting me
know. Some day I will have to install and check out NVDA. But right now since I wrote
my own Email program it reads my Email unattended using the ATT Crystal voice and
then throws me into HJ Pad
Hi Thomas,
The dealer having set rules for when to hit or stay was why I was confused when
you said
The other difference is from what I've seen so far Alantic City
Blackjack just seems to have a better A.I. Its nothing specific I can
put my fingure on, but the A.I. tends to know when its a
Hey.
Here is a thought about the gma game engine.
Why won't the developer of the engine go into it and fix it were a
developer can make free games or paid games?
Then if Phil wanted to add more levels and stuff to the game he would
be able to do that with out charging.
Or he could add more to
There is probably a rather simple answer to this question Michael.
The gma engine is expensive, furthermore it is not like Bgt, you need some
pretty good knolidge of programming to begin with.
the engine is therefore a serious tool for serious developers, heck I
believe superdog's bone hunt
hi does anyone know what happened to airik 2 and cloak of divinity?
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
My guess is he's still working on them, but being typically quiet about it.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: william lomas will.d.lo...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 4:48 AM
Subject: [Audyssey]
I think if anything had happened in that sense, we'd have heard about it,
and certainly it's not been anything like long enough to really justify
worrying at this stage.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
- Original Message -
From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net
To: Gamers Discussion
Hi Michael,
David Greenwood put a restriction of 1 level for free games because he
didn't want someone to record all the sounds in Shades of Doom and create a
free game with the same creatures levels and sounds.
Based on a recent message from him, it sounds like he is planning to upgrade
the
I would agree that a sighted gamer will be more prone to taking risks and his
decades of using a mouse should allow him to survive situations that might
otherwise make zombie chow out of many others. With practice though, everyone
else should be able to match the same skill with the mouse and
Thanks Steady, I will keep searching. The fact that this bug only seems to
affect 2 people is making it tricky. So far I haven't found any difference
between your characters and everyone else that would let me see why the server
is treating you differently. You guys didn't by any chance call
Hi Folks,
I'm pasting a message from David about his games.
- Original Message -
From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM
Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf?
Hi all,
After reviewing my schedule
Greetings Jeremy et al.
I'm looking at getting one of these gaming mice with about six buttons. any
chance of making the key config register more mouse buttons?
Kai
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You
Hi Phil.
Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone
wolf version 4?
while I see the point, frankly just because microsoft are too lazy to add
backward compatibility into windows doesn't mean there won't be ways around,
and in the case of vb applications it
Kai, your point is valid, except that to my knowledge, nowhere in the
documentation as it exists did it tell me I could simply hit escape again to
return to the game. If it's operator error, it's operator error based on
lacking a piece of information. And as you and others including me have
it happens to me as well
On 12/11/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com wrote:
Thanks Steady, I will keep searching. The fact that this bug only seems to
affect 2 people is making it tricky. So far I haven't found any difference
between your characters and everyone else that would let me
To be honest I would only be interested in purchasing a new version of lw if
it was just that a new version.
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Phil Vlasak
Sent: 11 December 2011 14:59
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject:
if it is v3 but to work in new operating systems and no new features why pay?
On Dec 11, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Darren Harris wrote:
To be honest I would only be interested in purchasing a new version of lw if
it was just that a new version.
-Original Message-
From:
Hi Dark,
David posted a list of Lone Wolf version 4 changes quite a wile ago, maybe 3
or 4 years.
I can't find the message.
Probably left it on one of my older computers.
If anyone has it pleas re-post it.
Phil
- Original Message -
From: dark d...@xgam.org
To: Gamers Discussion list
Here are the events scheduled for Sunday, December 11th::
From the Pulpit
11:00 AM eastern
Hosted by Lee
Location: House of Our Lord
Come listen to a live service, which will include, worship, music, preaching,
and special singing.
Mystery Santa Gift Exchange Unwrapping Party
3:00 PM eastern
Because there is no charge for it.
---
Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord.
- Original Message -
From: Alfredo_The_Music_maker birdlover2...@hotmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:33 AM
Subject:
No, and I don't think it is available anymore.
---
Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord.
- Original Message -
From: Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk
To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 4:13 AM
Subject: Re:
Hi,I
Understand the work required, but I don't understand why David would think
anyone would purchase the game ifhe's simply rewriting it. I have no current
plans to upgrade windows to any nonexistent version that does not allow the
use of VB Code, and it sounds to me as if there are to be no
Ask David Greenwood. It's his engine. HTH.
---
Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord.
- Original Message -
From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] suggestion for
Hi Hayden,
David is not re-writing Lone Wolf version 3, he is re-writing Lone Wolf
version 4, a game you haven't played.
I don't have his list of features and it is probably going to change in the
future.
One item on the list was to make Lone Wolf a multi player game like his Time
of Conflict.
Oh. It's good to know the range. That makes me feel a lot better.
Also, this is the first game that my friend and I agree gives pretty
much the same info to the sighted and blind player.
I must as a question, or perhaps suggest a change. He and I both agree
that, when you're in a huge
Another change was to have rear facing torpedo tubes. I'm still looking for
the list of changes. Seems like I've got it somewhere, but haven't found
it. If I find it, I'll post it.
---
Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord.
- Original Message -
Hi.
I just checked and NVDA seems to work fine with HJ pad also, just FYI.
Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.14 portable.
On 12/11/2011 5:56 AM, Jim Kitchen wrote:
Hi Hayden,
Oh, cool, I didn't know that NVDA could use the sapi5 voices. Thanks
for letting me know. Some day I will have to install
Hi list:
Can anyone help me with the error I am getting with swamp.
I am getting a run time error 35761 and says it timed out.
Does anyone have any idea of why I am getting this message?
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Hi.
Given the development of ScreenReaderAPI, the stuff you asked about will
probably work sometime in the future. I still loyally play RS Games
myself when I do those types, so I don't know anything about it really
other than that.
Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.14 portable.
On 12/10/2011 8:53
ah, tht would be good indeed, if lots of people could sub around the ocean.
Perhaps either yourself Phil or someone else on the gma list could ask David
for an updated changelog, just so that with the recent announcement it's a
litle clearer what we will be getting when version 4 of lw rolls
Say you have GAWS.
Game Accessible With Speech.
Yeah, bunch of CRap Charles.
Instead of teling you the truth, they have no plans or money for such
projects.
They want you to think, you don't kow what your talking about.
And its not a law to use Jaws for games.
What if your job is reviewing
Hey, Does anyone know when the nightjar will be release in the U.S.?
--
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
So, I've ben playing TDVlately, and I got to the boss last week, and I'm
still stuck on it. I like a challenge, but this is ridiculous. The number of
missiles that Brutus has is ridiculous-how many missiles can possibly fit on
the wings of an aircraft that size? Then, when the exhaustion vent
While I'm not usually the person who will jump to Microsoft's defense,
I don't think it's really fair to say they were too lazy to bother
adding VB compatibility. After all, Windows 8 will still run games
written in VB, but I'm guessing it will require the same tweaks that
Vista and 7 do, namely
For the next update I plan to have the game support the extra buttons of gaming
mice.
Greetings Jeremy et al.
I'm looking at getting one of these gaming mice with about
six buttons. any chance of making the key config register
more mouse buttons?
Kai
---
Gamers mailing list __
I'll pass this suggestion along to Kai. As it's a sound issue, that is his
department. :)
With the graphics I knew that no matter what the sighted players would have an
advantage in some ways, so I tried to restrict them in others. So rather than
making their situation easier it just makes
damn, i need to find my airic 5 link, as i left it there for future
updating but completely forgot. let the digging begin...
anyways, i'm actually glad he's gone past his deadline, as for one
thing i never got near finnishing the first game as of yet and for
another, it suggests he's not just
does anyone use a microsoft sidewinder gamepad? would it work on swamp? i
have on eo fthose devices and its a USB one
- Original Message -
From: Jeremy Kaldobsky jer...@kaldobsky.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 1:25 PM
Subject: Re:
It sounds like your connection isn't able to reach the server. Making sure you
have an active internet connection would be my first tip. The other
possibility is if your connection is dropping during play.
Hi list:
Can anyone help me with the error I am getting with swamp.
I am
I don't have one so I can't be sure, but odds are it wouldn't work. I didn't
specifically put in any code to support it.
does anyone use a microsoft
sidewinder gamepad? would it work on swamp? i have on eo
fthose devices and its a USB one
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If
Hi list,
I'm looking for a certain type of game. I don't really know a name for
those games, except that they are a kind of puzzlegames. I'll give you
two examples instead so that you know what I'm looking for.
In the game Wii party, there is a game mode called garden gridlock. You
get a
Are you looking for a type of game like having to set dominos close enough
to one another, designing your own pattern, so that by tipping the first
one, they all fall along the desired path, traveling up or down staircases,
along roads, and so forth until they have all fallen? Sort of a chain
Assuming you cna program the Sidewinder to emulate mouse movements, then it
probably could. I've got a gamepad myself, and do plan to configure it to
function as a mouse emulator. I'll report on the results, as soon as I've
finished the DAISY conversion of the manual.
kai
- Original
If you decreased the fly sound, you'd trade easier localization for less
range in hearing the loot sound. I personally like the way it is, even with
the disorienting effect of the flies as they are. It's a challenge to
situational awareness, to keep track of potential enemies while finding the
Hi Charles,
You wrote:
Are you looking for a type of game like having to set dominos close
enough to one another, designing your own pattern, so that by
tipping the first one, they all fall along the desired path, traveling
up or down staircases, along roads, and so forth until they have
yes, the flies buzzing can be a serious problem when your being
surrounded. might i suggest a key to mute or at least significantly
decrease the volume of the flies.
control f perhaps.
so you have too many flies buzzing around to make out what is going
on, you hit control f, clear out
Well my mouse is sluggish, even at high setting, If I set sensitivity
on my pc to full I get a bit more responce but not much.
I have a 50 buck logitech mouse with 8 buttons I will be getting for
christmas so we will see.
At 06:23 a.m. 11/12/2011 -0800, you wrote:
I would agree that a sighted
Same, I payed good cash for lw, I don't just buy it if all it is is
able to run on 7 or 8 or whatever next windows is.
It would have to be substantial.
Maybe if I could get the latest game packs of gtc, lw and sod with
new versions I may concider it.
At 04:23 p.m. 11/12/2011 +, you wrote:
yeah we will have games that are like jaws, pro to use pro versions
of an os, yuck.
At 04:30 p.m. 11/12/2011 +, you wrote:
if it is v3 but to work in new operating systems and no new features why pay?
On Dec 11, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Darren Harris wrote:
To be honest I would only be
true, 16 bit stuff is being totally broken in 64 bit versions of
windows, Though 16 bit support without a real dos emulater is not
that nice anyway right now.
Oh well, I guess we will have to play our old games with dosemu or
other dos emulator in linux then.
Or an old system which I plan to
thats good aprone I will be getting the gaming mouse at christmas.
At 11:25 a.m. 11/12/2011 -0800, you wrote:
For the next update I plan to have the game support the extra
buttons of gaming mice.
Greetings Jeremy et al.
I'm looking at getting one of these gaming mice with about
six
Hi Alex.
As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to,
even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc.
it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older
programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems
Hi Sarah.
the only other game besides towers of war that has that sort of puzle
element is Quentin's greenies escape. That works on a similar principle to
the old game lemings.
You have lots of little creatures to get from the entrance to the exit of
each stage. The problem is the creatures
well dark ms has never listened to the customer, well if they do not
really much.
Upgrading is usually better, unless there is a problem.
Old hardware, or being disabled no matter what it is.
It just makes everyone have to upgrade.
Until nvda came along we had to pay for reader upgrades and some
hi dark, its less to do with the fact that microsoft are to lazy to, but
more that times have moved on, and we now have ways of doing things in a
far more efitiant ways for newer computers. and as has been pointed out
by people before, windows is bloated, .. well, thats come from trying to
yes, its possible to beet him. however, i must agree on one point, no
aircraft can carry that many missiles. thats impossible.
dallas
On 12/12/2011 04:32, Hayden Presley wrote:
So, I've ben playing TDVlately, and I got to the boss last week, and I'm
still stuck on it. I like a challenge, but
well said. and yes, they have been known to drop backwards compatibility
due to securety as well. and besides, if they support everything,
windows is going to end up huge!
not that it isn't already. lol
dallas
'
On 12/12/2011 04:50, Alex Kenny wrote:
While I'm not usually the person who will
Do they really have to continually upgrade the operating system and
programs, making more power hogs, making us buy more powerful computers to
do the same tasks we were previously doing but having to use more powerful
processors and use more of the resources to do those tasks? Why can't they
This issue is being addressed. There are now multiple fly sounds,
eliminating the probability of the same sound being played at multiple
sources.
Kai
- Original Message -
From: Christopher Bartlett themusicalbre...@gmail.com
To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Sent:
Hi,
Actually, Microsoft goes to great lengths to ensure
backward-compatibility, much more than many other tech companies. If
Microsoft behaved like Apple, i can garuntee that you would not be
able to run VB games on modern machines, because MS would have removed
support from their OS as soon as
EMON 6702 (20111211) information _
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system
http://www.eset.com
_ NOD32 EMON 6702 (20111211) information _
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system
http://www.eset.com
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers
Hi,
Great...can you recommend any strategy to do it? Apparently what I used to
do no longer works.
Best Regards,
Hayden
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Dallas O'Brien
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 4:24 PM
To:
Hi,
One thing that gets me is how people react to the vista start menu. I don't
understand why so many people seem to just like the old menu system. The
search box means all you have to do is type in what you want to find, then
arrow to it, instead of scrolling through a programs menu that is not
That's the beauty of fiction I suppose.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Extremely Frustrated with
One word. Money.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 3:32 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an updated
LoneWolf
have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
_ NOD32 EMON 6702 (20111211) information _
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system
http://www.eset.com
_ NOD32 EMON 6702
While money is one motivating factor, one reason you can't just stop
once you get a system that works is that, with something as complex as
an operating system and the fallibility of programmers, it's almost
impossible to get a system that does exactly what you want. Any
operating system meant for
When is it the right time to stop innovating? When can you be certain that
more processing power will never be necessary? When will you have found
everything that everyone needs to do, and when will they be able to do it
well enough?
The thing about technological advances is that each one not
An excellent and simple solution. I'm eager for the next update.
Chris Bartlett
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Kai
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 5:39 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey]
Dark, I accept that there is truth in what you say, but given that OS
upgrades often address a myriad of things from security concerns to new
technology, I think yours is perhaps an unfair attribution of motive. And I
do have to be the meanie-head and ask, yes, and where is Amiga now?
Hi Phil,
Interesting. This sounds good though as we will get a fresh new
rewrite of the program, and it looks like David Greenwood is looking
at Windows 8 compatibility and beyond. This is all to the good for
us, and I'm sure is well worth an upgrade fee.
Cheers!
---
Gamers mailing list __
Hi Hayden,
I happen to agree with you that Vista and Windows 7's start menu is
superior to the XP start menu, but I think the resistance to it is
simply some people don't want to change. Its the same old story, the
more things change the more people stay the same. I think its safe
enough to say
regarding the flies sounds, depending on how this is implemented, it
may or may not fix the issue.
what is happening isn't a result of the same sound being played in
multiple places, its the fact that the flies sound is continuous and
loud when your near it, making it hard to hear to target
Frankly, both options together make things tremendous. Have a key to
activate and deactivate loot scanning, as it were, and different flies
sounds, and nobody can possibly take issue.
Signed:
Dakotah Rickard
On 12/11/11, Che blindadrenal...@gmail.com wrote:
regarding the flies sounds,
yep, and its exactly because of the backwards compatibility that we all
love windows. you can run anything, on nearly anything. yes, thats
changing, but it has to, at some point.
dallas
On 12/12/2011 08:44, Alex Kenny wrote:
Hi,
Actually, Microsoft goes to great lengths to ensure
lol. you just have to be dam fast, and dam presice. there really isn't
a method to it.
i have only beet him once.
dallas
On 12/12/2011 09:11, Hayden Presley wrote:
Hi,
Great...can you recommend any strategy to do it? Apparently what I used to
do no longer works.
Best Regards,
Hayden
hi chris. well put. and i for one, love to see what games we will be
able to make with the newer operating systems and hardware in time to
come! its going to be a blast!
dallas
On 12/12/2011 10:20, Christopher Bartlett wrote:
When is it the right time to stop innovating? When can you be
On that note, it'd be kinda nice to know what's there before we pick it up-
so if we don't need the item, we can alert friends to it
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update
You can blame the game nuts for that.
The sighted like using powerfull games which need that power.
As for upgrades all stuff needs to be upgraded, storage hardware, security etc.
At 04:32 p.m. 11/12/2011 -0600, you wrote:
Do they really have to continually upgrade the operating system and
That's a second from me, just move away from them if they're to
noisy for you.
- Original Message -
From: Christopher Bartlett themusicalbre...@gmail.com
To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org
Date sent: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:30:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Swamp: spawning
On the subject of processor, I often have my machine's processor
at 98 or 99% free, and ram is usually 90% or so free.
- Original Message -
From: Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Date sent: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:32:17 -0600
Subject:
just move towards it and take whatever is in there. the sound will stop and
you have more ammo or other items. if it is something you don't need, donate
them and get reputation points. If you move away from the sound, i will
thank you and happily go in there and help myself. but don't complain
Sorry about the test messege. Having trouble contacting anything to do with
this listserv.
Hopefully, this gets through.
Thanks and once again, sorry.
Keith
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can
There might be some truth in that, and as a community that wants ever more
complex games ourselves, I can't blame anybody in that interchange. Better
processing power = more potential for more immersive audio environments.
Chris Bartlett
-Original Message-
From:
Hi Dark,
I certainly understand why you feel the way you do about Windows
compatibility issues--I'm certain most end users are likely to see
things your way--but because you aren't a software developer you
aren't seeing the other side of the issue. Which is simply this.
First, Microsoft has a
Shaun,
Um...Its not just that 16-bit support is broken, but was completely
removed from 64-bit versions of Windows 7. I don't know all of
Microsoft's reasoning behind it, but I can't really blame them for
dropping support for 16-bit games and applications. All of that
software is for Windows 95
Hi Alex,
Yes, definitely true. I am no Microsoft fan myself, but I think people
are being just a little too harsh over this issue of Visual Basic
compatibility etc.
Microsoft has good reasons for removing Visual Basic support even if
some of us don't necessarily agree with them. Its not because
I've written this down in my list of things to add. It does seem like a pretty
simple solution, as long as no one forgets they have loot sounds disabled!
haha!
Frankly, both options together make
things tremendous. Have a key to
activate and deactivate loot scanning, as it were, and
Hi Hayden and all,
Actually, the last time I got a progress report on Lone Wolf 4.0 there
were suppose to be a number of changes planned. I don't remember them
all but I do remember mission creators could customize the sub,
increase or decrease the number of torpedoes carried into combat, rear
Well I spent all week at work, planning ahead for everything I was going to
code once the weekend finally arrived. I've been working double land triple
shifts monday through friday so I wasn't able to do any coding at all. So the
weekend came and went and I'm frustrated to say that I didn't
Hi Dark,
As Phil wrote a little earlier David Greenwood released a long list of
changes in version 4.0 around three or four years ago. Unfortunately I
can not lay my hands on that particular e-mail, but I can say a lot of
the changes were pretty substantial. Its not a simple case of David
just
Hi ?Charles,
Well, let me answer your question with a question. How do you expect
them to make money if they don't continually release upgrades?
It sounds to me like your question is along the lines of if it ain't
broke don't fix it. While it might seem like you are paying money to
do the same
Hello, All.
On my iPhone I have some games that require you to be involve with the game.
I downloaded two games yesterday that I found quite fun and
interresting to play.
The two games are call Inception and Dimensions Adventures.
I was wondering if there are any other games that are like
97 matches
Mail list logo