Michael, just speaking as someone who's dealt with developers over access
issues for a long time, it's not a matter of speaking your mind or rights,
and if you think in those terms you'll not be making friends I'm afraid.
Remember, that you are essentially asking! a person to do a lot of extra
I Agree completely allison.
I must confess I'm a litle surprised to find Michael was in the states,
sinse I assumed English was not his first language, and thus didn't comment
upon his writing specifically.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
- Original Message -
From: Allison Mervis
Ian, there are occasions when a spellcheck is your friend.
I tend to be too lazy to check every message I write, and just go on the
basis if Hal says it right, it likely is. but if it is an important message
such as one regarding access, I'll write it in ms word or wordpad then run a
Hi
I agree fully, what was said should be taken in the spirit it was written.
As a person or part of a community we should always strive to make the best
possible first impression when contacting a dev about adding in any
accessibility features with their project. Their not obligated to
Can I laugh here now? This is getting to be a joke!
Back to gaming while Mike finds some social skills.
At 11:56 PM 12/16/2011, you wrote:
Hey, Allis.
Well first of all when I was in contact with the person who help me
create De Steno Games he was very happy to work with me.
I just asked him
sadly when you get an account on samnet you can't change the signature. will
make a suggestion to serotek about that since i also have that but don't use it
for lists such as this.
On Dec 16, 2011, at 3:33 PM, Bryan Peterson wrote:
Besides, even if he's a hundred percent passionate about
Michael, in communicating with a developer you are engaging in a
professional communication. There are standards for that sort of
communication. It's not a question of someone being better, it's a basic
question of courtesy; show the person you are communicating with that you
care enough to be
I'll second everything Alison says, as a former adaptive technology teacher,
which often spilled over into advocate, counselor and role model, the
effectiveness of your communication is directly related to the care with
which you prepare it and the appropriateness of the form for its audience.
Michael,
For all we know his attitude was justified. What was the eMail you sent?
Best Regards,
Hayden
-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of michael barnes
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 4:35 AM
To: gamers@audyssey.org
well i won't be playing this game if that's the way he's going to be.
Ian McNamara
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Hey, Hayden.
I wrote him and share with him how I worked with another developer on
making apps accessible.
I also told him I would love to help him to make the game accessible
and would like it if he could be able to give me a call so he could
hear the parts where the game could be made
Yeah I don't like when developers tells me they are going to make
something accessible and they don't won't to hear from the people who
is requesting it.
I gave the app a very bad rating and review on the app store.
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Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit
It's also possible you just tried to promote yourself in the wrong way...
you could've just mentioned them once, and not even specifically mentioned
you worked with others which makes it sound like a business colaboration.
Could've just emailed and said hey, I'm blind, but I love the sound of
Hey Michael. think he's talking about the add that talks about samobile.net as
spam not your email. hope this helps. that's why i don't use my samobile.net
email for emailing lists and things.
On Dec 16, 2011, at 5:34 AM, michael barnes wrote:
Hey, All.
I wrote Mario a email sharing him
the samnet thing is an unwanted advertisement for him. that's what he's getting
at.
On Dec 16, 2011, at 5:34 AM, michael barnes wrote:
Hey, All.
I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game.
And he wrote a bad response to me.
So I will not support his bad atitude about
Not to be rude or anything Michael but you do sometimes have a tendency to
come off as rude. That's why I didn't respond to his last post on the forum
topic because I didn't want to risk eliciting just that sort of response.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
I'm still willing to wait and see. Because he did seem genuinely interested
in making the game more accessible. In fact I got the feeling he'd already
begun to consider one of the suggestions that was put to him on the forum
before it was suggested, that being creating a sort of text mode that
I hate to say it Michael, but that isn't likely to improve our position any.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net
To: gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not
That's exactly my thought. Leaving the I've worked with other developers
part out at least right at the beginning MIGHT have been a better way to go.
Because Mario did seem genuinely interested in what we had to say. I just
hope this hasn't destroyed our chances of gaining access to the game.
Hi,
Agreed. Giving an app a bad rating and review just because of
accessibility issues isn't likely to improve our position with the
developer. By and large issues like this should be handled through
private communication instead of throwing mud at the developer
publically and hoping it sticks. I
Okay, I am going to try to advocate to this developer and not do any of this
stupid crap. He has an iOS device, he doesn't need to call you and you to guide
him through the accessibility, all you needed to do was tell him about
VoiceOver.
Sending him a mail now.
Orin
orin8...@gmail.com
Not only that but I sort of got the feeling he'd decided on what he thought
was the best way to go about doing it, which happened to agree with what
Michael had suggested. So when a few days ago e asked us not to bring the
forum topic up again I didn't. Nor did I contact him privately because I
To be honest I'd leave him alone for the moment. He might still be upset and
if so it might push him further away if too many more of us contact him. The
really frustrating part is that he seemed genuinely interested in making the
game available to all of us. And now he probably thinks all of
Well, I hope our chances improve... and I would ask anyone else
contemplating it to leave emails on the down low... I know from experience
that repeated requests from people to do something usually just turns me off
it all the more. Let him simmer down first and see what the next revision of
Hi Michael,
No offense, but I think the response you got was justified from the
developer's perspective. Its obvious from his response that he feels
you were e-mailing him too much over the accessibility topic, he felt
pressured and hounded, and instead of looking at it as suggestions he
saw it
Out of curiosity, where is this forum topic? I didn't know there were other
people other than Michael and me trying to help out.
Orin
orin8...@gmail.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/orinks
Skype: orin1112
On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:10 AM, Clement Chou wrote:
Well, I hope our chances
That would be my recommendation as well. Becase if there's even a slight
chance that the game will be made more accessible to us we don't want to
jeopardize it. If he doesn't yet think all blind folks are spoiled,
demanding brats we don't want to push him in that direction. Because from
what
Well at first he wrote on the game's public forum. At that time Mario seemed
genuinely open to the idea. After a few messages between him, Michael and
myself Mario asked us not to raise the issue again since he thought he had a
pretty good idea what he was going to try. In fact he basically
It's in Feature Requests.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: Orin orin8...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.
Out of
I must confess that working with develop[ers on access matters is it's own
process.
first, you need to be polite, second you need a clear idea of what access
issues the game has and what needs doing to change it.
For example, in Core exiles at one time the labels showing threat wrating of
Hi Bryan,
Right. I do that myself, and it is amazing how many blind people out
there who can't be patient enough for the developer to do something on
his own schedule, in his own time, and in his own way. Instead they
have to repeatedly nag, nag, nag until the developer just gets
irritated and
hi Orin.
I hope you can salvage this situation, sinse it would be a real shame if an
rpg game got lost because of bad communications.
if I had an I os device, I'd gladly talk to the developer myself.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to
I'm almost afraid to now. Smile. Because he was very explicit on his last
post on the forum. Polite, yes, but he made his wishes known.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: dark d...@xgam.org
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday,
You have my full agreement there. But at the same time part of me just
wonders... why isn't this common sense? It isn't like it takes a genius to
realize that a suggestion and nagging are not one and the same... most
sighted people get this concept.
- Original Message -
From: Thomas
He even said at first he was exited by the emails i reckon now see what happens
i would say it's good that you are working on getting games more accessable but
i'd say in the future learn from this and send one email to the developer
saying the stuff you feel and explain to them about voice
Michael,
I don't see any bad attitude in his message at all. He's simply
asking you to stop spamming him, and to stop spamming his forum. It's
a very reasonable request, and it has nothing to do with
accessibility. I see no need to demonize him over it.
Dennis Towne
Alter Aeon MUD
True, you should of let him come forth and ask is
it useable and then move to next problem.
If he determent accessibility to be to much of a
nag. He just might mention it on the apple dev
list and then accessibility will be a missed
thought. Give a good experience about
accessibility and he
Sounds more like a public temper tantrum. Then a real review on product.
Try to be mature about reviews and such, because acting like a child
around adults will get you ignored!
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If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
I agree. I gave it a positive review because despite the fact that it's not
entirely playable I was still able to get a feel for the atmosphere and
liked it.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com
To: Gamers Discussion list
Hi.
from reading the message that you were sent Michael,
it sounds like that the guys issue is not that he has stopped supporting
accessibility,
he wants two things, firstly he wants you to leave him alone about
accessibility, as quite rightly he doesn't want accessibility to take
over game
Besides, even if he's a hundred percent passionate about incorporating
accessibility into the game, he can't very well work on that if he's got to
constantly answer emails from us.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: alex wallis
Part of being a strong advocate is not flying off the handle when
something doesn't happen as quickly as you'd like it to. Mario mentioned
that he had an idea of what to do in order to fix the accessibility
issues which still existed in Silversword. Even though you knew this
Michael, you still
So well said I give you a great complement for that exactly what I thought
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 16, 2011, at 4:52 PM, Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com wrote:
Part of being a strong advocate is not flying off the handle when something
doesn't happen as quickly as you'd like it to.
Hey, I just re submitted my review of the app.
I did give it a five star rating and I am going to apologize to Mario
for my demanding atitude towards him.
Yes I know sometimes it seem that I am demanding but I just was trying to help.
I am sorry for all this problems.
--
Email services
I do believe that we don't need to give bad reviews but to give fair reviews
for example I'm not going to lie if the game isn't accessible at all I may give
two stars out of five or if it's half way accessible then two and a half or
three. I use to be a programmer but am not anymore,
You were not demanding and you do have a right to rank down as long as you are
fair, I probably would have given 3 to 4 stars fairly for the access issues.
You just need to be aware of your wording and rate honestly and fairly.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:11 PM, michael barnes
Hey, Joseph.
Yes that is my right as a american to speek my mind.
After thinking about what I was just a little bit of demanding.
However I totaly agree with you.
But just to show the developer that I would like him to work on the
accessibility of the app I went ahead and gave it a five star.
Here is the email that I had wrote and send to Mario and then you be
the judge about it.
Hello, Mario.
First how is everything going with you on this Christmas holiday? I am
wondering how the progress is going on the accessibility for the game?
Is there a new version going to be release?
I
I have SA to and I don't think you can remove that. I don't like some of other
peoples signature either but I don't threaten them like this guys I just do the
adult thing and over look it. NWA
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 16, 2011, at 8:57 AM, Brandon Misch bmisch2...@gmail.com wrote:
Hey
Here's the thing Michael. It's the little things that we do when we
write to other people which set the tone of our messages. I think you
know that your writing could stand to improve pretty significantly. You
don't use proper punctuation and grammar, you don't structure your
sentences very
Nice to meet you mr. Or mrs.
Perfect. We're all on the Same side lets quit bashing each other I get the
feeling from some of the people on this list that they think their better than
everyone else
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 16, 2011, at 11:49 PM, Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com wrote:
Hey, Allis.
Well first of all when I was in contact with the person who help me
create De Steno Games he was very happy to work with me.
I just asked him once and he was excited to do it.
I was not repeating myself in the message I was just trying to show him
that I know what I am talking
Even though that message in and of itself was not particularly
demanding, I know that's not the first message you've sent to Mario.
That's the type of message that you send a few weeks or even a few
months into the process of making accessibility inroads. Give the poor
man time to implement
Hello, Joseph.
I get that all the time aswell.
If someone see that someone had a issue with something then they should
help that person and instead of hitting them over the head.
--
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit
www.serotek.com to learn more about
For your information, I do not feel that I am better than any other
person on this list. However, I have significant experience as a
competent blind adult and as an advocate for other blind people. I am
simply trying to help Michael improve his skills both as a self
advocate, and most
Hi.
Your message itself isn't all that bad. It's actually pretty nice in my
opinion. But more than one message like this would get annoying. And I
think he thought the audyssey stuff was an advertisement not the email
services provided by the serotech system access network, which I do
believe
If you want to help him show him what to do, and you can't judge competency
because you don't know hi like I do.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:03 AM, Allison Mervis alliso...@gmail.com wrote:
For your information, I do not feel that I am better than any other person on
this
Hi Joseph,
I don't believe Allison was trying to be little Miss Perfect, and her
message wasn't bashing Michael in any way, shape, or form. Her message
was well written, explanitory, and offered some well thought out
constructive criticism where Michael's messages could improve.
Constructive
I monitor this list every day and a lot of people own here pick on other people
that they don't even know, I will respectfully agree to disagree, no big deal
:-)
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:10 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Joseph,
I don't believe
You need to give these things time. He'd really only just heard of the idea
of game accessibility. Then he probably has to work out how best to do
whatever he's going to do if he decides it's worth it. Thing is Michael, whe
it comes to something like this it's est, even if the developer seems
And be patient. If you don't hear anything right away don't write him again.
Heck, we haven't really had any new news on MOTA in a while and I haven't
written about it because I know that when there's something worth reporting
Thomas will let us know. The same is true in Mario's case. If and
Not to be rude but aren't we being just a bit hypocritical with that last
statement? Allison made some very good points.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: Joseph Weaver jweaver1...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday,
But each developer is different. If thhey want to work with you that's teir
choice. Bt it's also thheir choice if they'd prefer to find out how to do
the job on their own. Every situation's going to be different.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From:
Hi Michael,
Well, as for your message itself I don't really see anything offensive
about it in and of itself, but as others have mentioned I think it is
a case of one message too many.
As I understand it Mario asked you and Bryan to close the topic, and
about a week later you send him this
Hi, i am the same and i admit it. I use to be a member of an email roleplay
simming group but i ended up having to leave due to the fact i can't spell well
inuff and although i know where punctuation is suppose to go i don't really use
it. That is why in the past on this list i've had problems
It wasn't even a week. It was probably a matter of two days or so.
They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey]
I can only judge based on what I've read, as do most people. In case
you haven't seen my other messages, I provided suggestions on how he
might improve the content and overall tone of his messages. As a rehab
counselor with experience in the blindness field, I feel pretty
confident in
That was very well stated Brian. I could not agree more.
Allison
On 12/16/2011 9:15 PM, Bryan Peterson wrote:
You need to give these things time. He'd really only just heard of the
idea of game accessibility. Then he probably has to work out how best
to do whatever he's going to do if he
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