I would simply like to point out WHO is the specification lead of JSR-127
(see http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=127), and who was the initial
author of Struts (see http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/volunteers.html)...
Apache's concerns were Considering Sun's current position that JSRs may
Note that Sun's JCP NDA agreements burn the second and third
completely. And possibly the first (though i'm not a big fan of long
standing deprecations.. ).
-Andy
Thanks Pier. I had wondered when someone would point this out.
Having clarity on the facts is very important, because all too
On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 06:08 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Note that Sun's JCP NDA agreements burn the second and third
completely.
Utter nonsense. Are you saying that there's a dearth of innovation at
apache? Or that Apache doesn't support strong communities?
geir
And possibly the
No I'm saying that projects which some committers are bound by Sun's
NDAs and are on the specification commmittees do not
have meritocratic consensus based communities. The committers engaged
in the legal agreement with sun cannot talk to the other
committers about important decisions affecting
On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 06:40 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
No I'm saying that projects which some committers are bound by Sun's
NDAs and are on the specification commmittees do not
have meritocratic consensus based communities.
Do you have any examples of this? You aren't confusing the
Do you have any examples of this? You aren't confusing the material I
submit to the ASF JCP group from the EC with whatever you are thinking
about, are you?
I do not subscribe to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list as I was informed that it
would bind me in the ASF's NDA agreements with Sun. (and I
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
have meritocratic consensus based communities. The committers engaged
in the legal agreement with sun cannot talk to the other
committers about important decisions affecting the project and secondly
the major decisions are made in the specification committee and
not
On 11/3/03 23:40 Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No I'm saying that projects which some committers are bound by Sun's
NDAs and are on the specification commmittees do not
have meritocratic consensus based communities. The committers engaged
in the legal agreement with sun cannot
Thanks Pier. Thats a great perpective. Lets have some more.
Anyone have a remarkably positive Gee the JCP listens to everyone and I
can disclose everything to my fellow committers and its been great for
our community?
-Andy
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
On 11/3/03 23:40 Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL
On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:09:14 -0500
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?
Thanks Pier. Thats a
Craig M. wrote:
| Andy seems to believe that *implementing* a specification (as opposed to
| creating one) is not a valid itch to be scratched if he doesn't like the
| mechanism by which the specification is created. It's perfectly
| reasonable for Andy to decide that for the projects he gets
| It is straightforward to replace brand overloading with brand segmentation,
| including informal segmentation that is later formalized upon wide
| adoption.
|
|
| huh?
|
| Conor
Andy (or Craig or anyone) can fork the single Apache brand to differentiate
projects that are community or
Yeah, on second thought, its a great idea to remove choice in a project
and instead submit it to a JSR committee and hence Suns conrol, take a
few folks and put them on NDA so that they can't talk about certain
decisions which will affect the project.
I'm not against all standards...just
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Yeah, on second thought, its a great idea to remove choice in a project
and instead submit it to a JSR committee and hence Suns conrol, take a
few folks and put them on NDA so that they can't talk about certain
decisions which will affect the project.
I'm not
I wrote:
| Andy (or Craig or anyone) can fork the single Apache brand to differentiate
| projects that are community or standards or foo -oriented. If the
| distinction turns out be predictive (of code quality or innovation or
| discussion
| quality or ...), then people will use the
Andy wrote:
| Yeah, on second thought, its a great idea to remove choice in a project
| and instead submit it to a JSR committee and hence Suns conrol, take a
| few folks and put them on NDA so that they can't talk about certain
| decisions which will affect the project.
[** disclaimer: I
I wrote:
| Is the NDA under NDA? Or can someone post a copy?
Ok, there's no separate NDA, it's part of the standard agreements:
http://jcp.org/en/participation/membership
Follow-up questions:
1. Is there an Apache-specific, public archive of JCP discussion,
including the negotiation
- Original Message -
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: Jakarta: too many similar projects?
Yeah, on second thought, its a great idea to remove choice in a project
and instead submit it
On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 08:21 PM, Costin Manolache wrote:
As with any standard, the decision making is based on a group of
people representing different interests. Apache does have a vote (
AFAIK ),
just like Sun or IBM. Projects should be able to participate - and
we should find a way
On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 10:58 PM, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
As it turns out, there is substantial room for innovation and debate in
the implementation of API specs like servlet and JSP (see the history
of
Tomcat development, and the recent innovation going on there for an
example), just
On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 11:40 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Yeah, on second thought, its a great idea to remove choice in a
project and instead submit it to a JSR committee and hence Suns conrol,
Andy, you have pretty much the same power over a JSR as Scott McNeely
does. The ASF has a
On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 01:32 AM, Rich Persaud wrote:
I wrote:
| Is the NDA under NDA? Or can someone post a copy?
Ok, there's no separate NDA, it's part of the standard agreements:
http://jcp.org/en/participation/membership
Follow-up questions:
1. Is there an Apache-specific,
I'd add to the list the Pluto and Charon proposals. I haven't seen any
reaction from the incubator to these? I know there was some discussions and
issues/hurdles raised by Andy but some sort of acknowledgment would be
polite.
Note that as a member of the Jakarta PMC I'm -1 on the Pluto
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