RE: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Lawrence E. Rosen
No, that is not correct. The point of having most committers on the PMC is not to keep discussions out of google. The point of getting them on the PMC is so that the ASF can legally protect them, and so that they are legally empowered to participate in the decisions that govern the

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 21, 2003, at 8:17 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote: On Sat, Dec 20, 2003 at 07:17:57AM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: That's the point of getting as many people as are seriously interested in the subject on the PMC. Then all can participate, and if we discuss something sensitive (as defined by

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Vic Cekvenich
BIG SNIP Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... sensitive things should be on the PMC list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list. /end Geir What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are

Sign those CLAs!

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr
Members of the Jakarta Community : With the privilege of committership in the ASF comes the requirement that each committer sign a document called the Committer License Agreement, or CLA. The CLA is a legal agreement between you, the committer, and the ASF in which you state that the

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote: BIG SNIP Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: ... sensitive things should be on the PMC list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list. /end Geir What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction.

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 22, 2003, at 8:05 AM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500 Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community? This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are ashamed of it, don't do open source

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:04:26 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 21, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: You go discus

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
YES! -- And members, and board, and incubator, and Move it into the open. -Andy -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Well, saying please and asking nicely had no effect. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
I think the problem isn't the private list, on which we will continue to do work, such as voting, but follow up. geir Heads up, FYI, except where I feel the situation absolutely mandates it, I will be voting/discussing here. While I'm not sure I agree, out of courtesy, I will vote

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers. -- Andrew C. Oliver

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Danny Angus
Andy wrote: FYI, except where I feel the situation absolutely mandates it, I will be voting/discussing here. snip I choose to work in the open. I choose to be googled. I volunteered for it in fact. Well said, I agree with this. But why be so confrontational about it? After all in the

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
I realize that arguing with you on this will have no effect, but I want to keep working to extinguish the meme you keep trying to plant. IIRC, the thread in play at the time was my note to ask the opinion of all PMC members re the CLA signing, to make sure that it was a clear message we all

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Danny Angus
While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers. I certainly think that increasing the size of the PMC makes it easier for things to get discussed on the PMC list, but if people care (and you do for one) about visibility the very nature of things mean that it won't

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
You are free to do what you want. Is this then about personal google hitcount? On Dec 21, 2003, at 11:06 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I think the problem isn't the private list, on which we will continue to do work, such as voting, but follow up. geir Heads up, FYI, except where I feel the

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 22, 2003, at 10:31 AM, Danny Angus wrote: While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers. I certainly think that increasing the size of the PMC makes it easier for things to get discussed on the PMC list, but if people care (and you do for one) about

[Chair Nominations] Position statements

2003-12-22 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I invite each candidate to create a new subject thread with their position statement. I realize that this has been stated across many threads, and it would be nice to see in a single thread, devoted to each candidates: with maybe a subject such as: [Position: PMC Chair Candidate name]. A new

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Costin Manolache
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary. While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers. I

cvs commit: jakarta-site2/docs .htaccess

2003-12-22 Thread ceki
ceki2003/12/22 11:24:39 Modified:docs .htaccess Log: Added a redirection from log4j/ to logging.apache.org/log4j PR: Obtained from: Submitted by: Reviewed by: Revision ChangesPath 1.13 +3 -0 jakarta-site2/docs/.htaccess Index:

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Tetsuya Kitahata
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:12:02 -0500 Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open discussion can

RE: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open discussion can happen in a

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Tetsuya Kitahata
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:10:27 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realize that arguing with you on this will have no effect, but I want to keep working to extinguish the meme you keep trying to plant. +1, Andrew seems to have boundless energy in this regard ;-) ! It seems that he/she/it is a

Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
I don't think that crossposting would be good keep it here On Dec 22, 2003, at 4:52 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Hello, folks. I am a moderator of three -dev lists in jakarta. What should I do next? Forwardin' this Pro-forma to each -dev lists? T.I.A. -- Tetsuya. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) On

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Tetsuya Kitahata
Noel J. Bergman wrote: Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Here in Jakarta (as well as other projects, I assume), the sub-projects do committer votes in public. Some people outside of Jakarta feel that this is improper, and should be done in private to ensure that open

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Dain Sundstrom
Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does not believe this

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Dain Sundstrom
On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:07 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Dain Sundstrom
On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:13 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:07 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On Dec 22, 2003, at 6:23 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Stephen McConnell
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:04:26 -0500 To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious On Dec 21, 2003, at 5:03 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Stephen McConnell
Dain Sundstrom wrote: Larry, I'm surprised that no one answered this (at least that I saw). From what I understand, ASF believes that those on PMC have liability protection from the ASF because the PMC members are acting on behalf of the organization. Further is it seems that the ASF does

Re: [Chair Nominations] Position statements

2003-12-22 Thread Henri Yandell
Before doing this, I'd like to see a final list of nominations on PMC. Then I'd like to see if they are accepted, as not all of them were self-nominations, before going to the General list. Hen On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I invite each candidate to create a new subject

RE: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Lawrence E. Rosen asked: Would someone please explain what protection committers expect from ASF? And what legal empowerment is being granted? I doubt that very many people can answer that question with any authority at all. Certainly not me. The most that I can do for you is provide a

Re: Just in case you're curious

2003-12-22 Thread Andrew C. Oliver
It seems that he/she/it is a *winter* person ;-) (Maybe, reincarnation of yeti) Andrew means Strong and Manly. Fairly gender specific. http://www.andythenamebender.com/name-meanings/Andrew.htm I like this: Origin: Shakespearean Meaning: 'Twelfth Night', also called 'What You Will' Sir