Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread Graeme Gill
Christopher Curtis wrote: > On a more philosophical note, how does one represent a color that does > not exist on a display but does on an output device? Do we make the > assumption that the display always has the widest gamut? (I.e: GIMP > will never run on a mono/CGA device and print to a CMYK

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread Graeme Gill
David Gowers wrote: > Imo the video card is the correct handler of these issues. X should > just upload an appropriate lookup table (which is functionality > already available in X, but doesn't happen automatically). Presumably > a multihead video card allows multiple LUTs. From that point of view,

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread David Gowers
On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Christopher Curtis wrote: > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Jon Cruz wrote: > > [...] >> does seem to come down to the points that X11 does not and should not deal >> with color management in these regards and needs to leave it to the >> individual apps. To get

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread Christopher Curtis
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Jon Cruz wrote: [...] > does seem to come down to the points that X11 does not and should not deal > with color management in these regards and needs to leave it to the > individual apps. To get a fully usable system, X11 would require some major > reworking, and

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread Jon Cruz
On Feb 13, 2010, at 12:08 AM, David Gowers wrote: > I agree; GIMP windows should support color management for individual > image windows according to these atoms, absolutely; > What it would be of little use to do, is to support showing the SAME > image in a single window spanning multiple monito

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread Jon Cruz
On Feb 13, 2010, at 2:39 AM, yahvuu wrote: > > In reality, the wall of monitors probably won't work like that as long > as GIMP has to manage the windows' colors. As others have said, it is > unreasonable to manage split windows at application level. Well, personally I don't consider it unmanag

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread Jon Cruz
On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:42 AM, Hal V. Engel wrote: > I some ways I agree with Chris but the X.Org developers have insisted on an > ongoing basis that it is NOT their responsibility to handle color management > of the display. If we wait for X.Org to implement CM it will likely never > happen.

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread Hal V. Engel
On Saturday 13 February 2010 09:15:13 am Christopher Curtis wrote: > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 5:39 AM, yahvuu wrote: > > Christopher Curtis wrote: > >> What happens in a multi-head setup when I maximize an image over (say) > >> a CRT and an LCD? Does "monitor profile" take this into account? > > >

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread Christopher Curtis
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 5:39 AM, yahvuu wrote: > Christopher Curtis wrote: >> What happens in a multi-head setup when I maximize an image over (say) >> a CRT and an LCD?  Does "monitor profile" take this into account? > > Following the logic of the diagram, i'd say yes: > your case is equivalent t

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread yahvuu
Christopher Curtis wrote: > What happens in a multi-head setup when I maximize an image over (say) > a CRT and an LCD? Does "monitor profile" take this into account? Following the logic of the diagram, i'd say yes: your case is equivalent to cutting an image into two pieces and printing one piece

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-13 Thread David Gowers
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Jon Cruz wrote: > However, the answer to the base question is "Yes, X and Gtk support that to > a very good degree, and all the low-level API's support delivering all the > required information". > and "No, X does nothing with the colorspaces. It is left to the app

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread Jon Cruz
On Feb 12, 2010, at 5:42 PM, Omari Stephens wrote: > On 02/12/2010 10:12 PM, Christopher Curtis wrote: >> On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:55 AM, yahvuu wrote: >> >>> here are some diagrams depicting selected configurations for >>> colormanagement: >>> http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dataf

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread Omari Stephens
On 02/12/2010 10:12 PM, Christopher Curtis wrote: > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:55 AM, yahvuu wrote: > >> here are some diagrams depicting selected configurations for colormanagement: >> http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dataflow.png > > What happens in a multi-head setup when I maximize an

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread Christopher Curtis
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:55 AM, yahvuu wrote: > here are some diagrams depicting selected configurations for colormanagement: > http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dataflow.png What happens in a multi-head setup when I maximize an image over (say) a CRT and an LCD? Does "monitor profile

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread Martin Nordholts
On 02/12/2010 07:18 PM, Omari Stephens wrote: > If the user with a weird monitor (wide-gamut, AdobeRGB, or other) has a > display profile and opens an image-without-profile, what do we display? >We can't apply the display profile unless the image has some source > color profile to link to the t

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread Omari Stephens
On 02/12/2010 05:36 PM, Martin Nordholts wrote: > On 02/12/2010 06:27 PM, Omari Stephens wrote: >> On 02/12/2010 04:55 PM, yahvuu wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> here are some diagrams depicting selected configurations for >>> colormanagement: >>> http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dataflow.png >> >

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread yahvuu
hi, and thanks for the feedback Omari Stephens wrote: > I believe number 1 is incorrect: First thing to note is that i should have added a legend: - grey: device-dependent colors, plain RGB values, no profile info available. - orange: colors from an absolute color space Picture 1) was in

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Martin Nordholts wrote: > People will want to create unmanaged images without a color profile for > use on the web That is, if people want to make everyone's lives more difficult, who are we to stop them from doing so? :) Just make web equal to sRGB as it already

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread Martin Nordholts
On 02/12/2010 06:27 PM, Omari Stephens wrote: > On 02/12/2010 04:55 PM, yahvuu wrote: >> Hi, >> >> here are some diagrams depicting selected configurations for colormanagement: >> http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dataflow.png > > I believe number 1 is incorrect: > All images in GIMP will h

Re: [Gimp-developer] Color management dataflow [was: Color management (UI perspective for GIMP 2.8)]

2010-02-12 Thread Omari Stephens
On 02/12/2010 04:55 PM, yahvuu wrote: > Hi, > > here are some diagrams depicting selected configurations for colormanagement: > http://yahvuu.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/dataflow.png I believe number 1 is incorrect: All images in GIMP will have a color profile. This will either be the implicit s