[H] Save XP!
Go to this page and sign the Save XP petition. Friends don't let friends get stuck with Vista. http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ T
Re: [H] Save XP!
This is getting to be ridiculous. Yes, Vista is different. A lot of PC users do not grasp on how to use Vista. There are ways to turn off certain warnings and what not. In fact, if you have the hardware for it why not go vista? You'll miss out... The one thing I do not like about vista is the Audio control. No more Directsound to hardware. It's all done in HAL (Not the 2001 Computer either). This makes a lot of gamers pissed off, especially when they use SDPIF to connect to their speaker system. I remember not so far back that XP was getting the same, if not more of the same treatment. BTW, I've been told Mac's new OS is faster than Vista. Who knows. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:19 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Save XP! Go to this page and sign the Save XP petition. Friends don't let friends get stuck with Vista. http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ T
Re: [H] Save XP!
You can make the case for home users to use Vista. I wouldn't, but the case can be made. The problem is for business users. There is not a single good reason for them to upgrade to Vista and in fact a lot of bad reasons. What improvements have Microsoft added to Vista? DX10 gaming, HD and BluRay video playback (via HDCP and lots of DRM of course), cool window animations and glassy effects. NONE of those should be used in the average workplace and in fact if I were an IT administrator I would say they are an argument AGAINST installing Vista. The added DRM features to the audio and video subsystem is already causing all sorts of unforeseen glitches. The Aero desktop just means that you have to go out and add either lots of new video cards and/or RAM and/or new machines. And the new interface means that users that were just getting used to the old interface are now lost again. All of that means tons more support calls and lots of frustration for your IT staff. So when Microsoft announces that it will be soon dropping all support for Windows XP there is a very good reason for business IT people to petition against it. On Jan 15, 2008 12:52 PM, The Beave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is getting to be ridiculous. Yes, Vista is different. A lot of PC users do not grasp on how to use Vista. There are ways to turn off certain warnings and what not. In fact, if you have the hardware for it why not go vista? You'll miss out... The one thing I do not like about vista is the Audio control. No more Directsound to hardware. It's all done in HAL (Not the 2001 Computer either). This makes a lot of gamers pissed off, especially when they use SDPIF to connect to their speaker system. I remember not so far back that XP was getting the same, if not more of the same treatment. BTW, I've been told Mac's new OS is faster than Vista. Who knows. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:19 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Save XP! Go to this page and sign the Save XP petition. Friends don't let friends get stuck with Vista. http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ T -- -- Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Save XP!
The Beave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is getting to be ridiculous. Yes, Vista is different. Respectfully, I think the point is that there is room for both. best, al
Re: [H] Save XP!
I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:05 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! You can make the case for home users to use Vista. I wouldn't, but the case can be made. The problem is for business users. There is not a single good reason for them to upgrade to Vista and in fact a lot of bad reasons. What improvements have Microsoft added to Vista? DX10 gaming, HD and BluRay video playback (via HDCP and lots of DRM of course), cool window animations and glassy effects. NONE of those should be used in the average workplace and in fact if I were an IT administrator I would say they are an argument AGAINST installing Vista.
Re: [H] Save XP!
But yet, it makes problems to use it right out of the box Greg Sevart wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Weeden Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:05 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! You can make the case for home users to use Vista. I wouldn't, but the case can be made. The problem is for business users. There is not a single good reason for them to upgrade to Vista and in fact a lot of bad reasons. What improvements have Microsoft added to Vista? DX10 gaming, HD and BluRay video playback (via HDCP and lots of DRM of course), cool window animations and glassy effects. NONE of those should be used in the average workplace and in fact if I were an IT administrator I would say they are an argument AGAINST installing Vista.
Re: [H] Save XP!
Tim, I do understand your position. Really, but, let us agree to disagree. This is my personal rant. I really do mean no disrespect, really. Let's consider this my personal spew I have spent the past 8 years of my life reading this List's bitches, comments, concerns, platitudes, and such while WinXP matured to the product it is now @SP2. Besides just this List, I get the same commentary from other sources. I'll agree that my sources are far less than yours. And, I still use Win2KProSP4 as my basic OS. Why? It just flat works. 24/7. Yes, I am testing WinXP. I do know I may have to move there. Still searching for vendors willing to sell it w/o having to buy ~$1500 worth of new computer stuff just to be able to buy a stinking MS CD of WinXP. Sheesh! Yes, OK. I do have limited contacts and search criteria. My bad... Am working with my older Brother on this ATM :) I do know that you need to stay on the bleeding edge of OS technology because of the service and experience you have. How many personal versions of Vista have you actually bought for personal use? If you got your personal use copies via your work-20, all bets are off. From everything I have read, Vista is very expensive. And, not just the base OS. It demands additional expense in hardware also for some of us. Are we just supposed to toss out our own old personal computers? Do you honestly think this will happen? ... :) And, yes, I do understand that this is one of those technology gates too. We are moving from the 32-bit OS world into the 64-bit OS world. IIRC, moving from the 16- bit OS world to the 32-bit OS world was a PITA, but nothing like what I read these days. OK. I am perhaps grossly uninformed. Accept this. Excuse me! OK. You like Vista. Fine. Many on planet Earth do not. If MS wants to push this, I suspect Apple and *nix will most likely get many, many more converts. And, this is JMHO too. And, /rant. :) Best, Duncan At 09:52 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: This is getting to be ridiculous. Yes, Vista is different. A lot of PC users do not grasp on how to use Vista. There are ways to turn off certain warnings and what not. In fact, if you have the hardware for it why not go vista? You'll miss out... The one thing I do not like about vista is the Audio control. No more Directsound to hardware. It's all done in HAL (Not the 2001 Computer either). This makes a lot of gamers pissed off, especially when they use SDPIF to connect to their speaker system. I remember not so far back that XP was getting the same, if not more of the same treatment. BTW, I've been told Mac's new OS is faster than Vista. Who knows. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:19 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Save XP! Go to this page and sign the Save XP petition. Friends don't let friends get stuck with Vista. http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ T
Re: [H] Save XP!
Greg, Can we agree that IT administrators is a very small subset of total expected/planned users? I do understand your focus, but let's look at this just a bit more broadly. Thanks. Best, Duncan At 13:05 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
Bravo T !! Jeff Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:19 AM Subject: [H] Save XP! Go to this page and sign the Save XP petition. Friends don't let friends get stuck with Vista. http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ T
Re: [H] Save XP!
Dear DHSinclair, http://buycheapsoftware.com/ms_products~subcategory~139.asp You can buy XP here for $147 Sam DHSinclair wrote: Tim, I do understand your position. Really, but, let us agree to disagree. This is my personal rant. I really do mean no disrespect, really. Let's consider this my personal spew I have spent the past 8 years of my life reading this List's bitches, comments, concerns, platitudes, and such while WinXP matured to the product it is now @SP2. Besides just this List, I get the same commentary from other sources. I'll agree that my sources are far less than yours. And, I still use Win2KProSP4 as my basic OS. Why? It just flat works. 24/7. Yes, I am testing WinXP. I do know I may have to move there. Still searching for vendors willing to sell it w/o having to buy ~$1500 worth of new computer stuff just to be able to buy a stinking MS CD of WinXP. Sheesh! Yes, OK. I do have limited contacts and search criteria. My bad... Am working with my older Brother on this ATM :) I do know that you need to stay on the bleeding edge of OS technology because of the service and experience you have. How many personal versions of Vista have you actually bought for personal use? If you got your personal use copies via your work-20, all bets are off. From everything I have read, Vista is very expensive. And, not just the base OS. It demands additional expense in hardware also for some of us. Are we just supposed to toss out our own old personal computers? Do you honestly think this will happen? ... :) And, yes, I do understand that this is one of those technology gates too. We are moving from the 32-bit OS world into the 64-bit OS world. IIRC, moving from the 16- bit OS world to the 32-bit OS world was a PITA, but nothing like what I read these days. OK. I am perhaps grossly uninformed. Accept this. Excuse me! OK. You like Vista. Fine. Many on planet Earth do not. If MS wants to push this, I suspect Apple and *nix will most likely get many, many more converts. And, this is JMHO too. And, /rant. :) Best, Duncan At 09:52 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: This is getting to be ridiculous. Yes, Vista is different. A lot of PC users do not grasp on how to use Vista. There are ways to turn off certain warnings and what not. In fact, if you have the hardware for it why not go vista? You'll miss out... The one thing I do not like about vista is the Audio control. No more Directsound to hardware. It's all done in HAL (Not the 2001 Computer either). This makes a lot of gamers pissed off, especially when they use SDPIF to connect to their speaker system. I remember not so far back that XP was getting the same, if not more of the same treatment. BTW, I've been told Mac's new OS is faster than Vista. Who knows. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:19 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Save XP! Go to this page and sign the Save XP petition. Friends don't let friends get stuck with Vista. http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ T
Re: [H] Save XP!
Oh, I understand completely. If you go back and look, however, I was responding specifically to Brian's primary position that Vista is especially bad for IT admins. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:42 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! Greg, Can we agree that IT administrators is a very small subset of total expected/planned users? I do understand your focus, but let's look at this just a bit more broadly. Thanks. Best, Duncan At 13:05 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
Vista being bad for IT admins isn't really a reason not to use Vista. In fact, if Vista did have something real to offer me I'd be willing to use it and if it caused headaches for admins, too bad. At least they'd have job security. I don't let no admins on my machine anyway (thankfully I can do that!). Greg Sevart wrote: Oh, I understand completely. If you go back and look, however, I was responding specifically to Brian's primary position that Vista is especially bad for IT admins. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:42 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! Greg, Can we agree that IT administrators is a very small subset of total expected/planned users? I do understand your focus, but let's look at this just a bit more broadly. Thanks. Best, Duncan At 13:05 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
I would think that any time saved for admins by the group policy improvements would be totally wiped out by the added timesinks of all the other stuff I mentioned. Although I can't prove it - I just administer my 3 machines and that is timesink enough :) On Jan 15, 2008 3:42 PM, Greg Sevart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, I understand completely. If you go back and look, however, I was responding specifically to Brian's primary position that Vista is especially bad for IT admins. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:42 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! Greg, Can we agree that IT administrators is a very small subset of total expected/planned users? I do understand your focus, but let's look at this just a bit more broadly. Thanks. Best, Duncan At 13:05 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. snip -- -- Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Save XP!
I do understand your position. Really, but, let us agree to disagree. This is my personal rant. I really do mean no disrespect, really. Let's consider this my personal spew No problem... I personally and use it in business apps as well. And, I still use Win2KProSP4 as my basic OS. Why? It just flat works. 24/7. Yes, I am testing WinXP. I do know I may have to move there. Still searching for vendors willing to sell it w/o having to buy ~$1500 worth of new computer stuff just to be able to buy a stinking MS CD of WinXP. Sheesh! Yes, OK. I do have limited contacts and search criteria. My bad... Am working with my older Brother on this ATM :) I still use Windows XP SP2 on my work computer main machine. Why? Well, the Data Recovery software I use only supports Windows XP. I do know that you need to stay on the bleeding edge of OS technology because of the service and experience you have. How many personal versions of Vista have you actually bought for personal use? If you got your personal use copies via your work-20, all bets are off. From everything I have read, Vista is very expensive. And, not just the base OS. It demands additional expense in hardware also for some of us. Are we just supposed to toss out our own old personal computers? Do you honestly think this will happen? ... :) I have bought the complete DVD version of Vista Ultimate, includes 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS for my XPS Laptop. The Cost was like $399 I think. I also, purchased an OEM version of the OS in 32-bit version and it cost like $135, I think. OK. You like Vista. Fine. Many on planet Earth do not. If MS wants to push this, I suspect Apple and *nix will most likely get many, many more converts. And, this is JMHO too. And, /rant. :) I do have issues with Vista as well. Many people do as well. Once SP1 of Vista comes out it should address some issues with Vista. At 09:52 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: This is getting to be ridiculous. Yes, Vista is different. A lot of PC users do not grasp on how to use Vista. There are ways to turn off certain warnings and what not. In fact, if you have the hardware for it why not go vista? You'll miss out... The one thing I do not like about vista is the Audio control. No more Directsound to hardware. It's all done in HAL (Not the 2001 Computer either). This makes a lot of gamers pissed off, especially when they use SDPIF to connect to their speaker system. I remember not so far back that XP was getting the same, if not more of the same treatment. BTW, I've been told Mac's new OS is faster than Vista. Who knows. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:19 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Save XP! Go to this page and sign the Save XP petition. Friends don't let friends get stuck with Vista. http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ T Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave
Re: [H] Save XP!
Thanks Sam, I will check this out. Best, Duncan At 12:25 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: Dear DHSinclair, http://buycheapsoftware.com/ms_products~subcategory~139.asp You can buy XP here for $147 Sam DHSinclair wrote: Tim, I do understand your position. Really, but, let us agree to disagree. This is my personal rant. I really do mean no disrespect, really. Let's consider this my personal spew I have spent the past 8 years of my life reading this List's bitches, comments, concerns, platitudes, and such while WinXP matured to the product it is now @SP2. Besides just this List, I get the same commentary from other sources. I'll agree that my sources are far less than yours. And, I still use Win2KProSP4 as my basic OS. Why? It just flat works. 24/7. Yes, I am testing WinXP. I do know I may have to move there. Still searching for vendors willing to sell it w/o having to buy ~$1500 worth of new computer stuff just to be able to buy a stinking MS CD of WinXP. Sheesh! Yes, OK. I do have limited contacts and search criteria. My bad... Am working with my older Brother on this ATM :) I do know that you need to stay on the bleeding edge of OS technology because of the service and experience you have. How many personal versions of Vista have you actually bought for personal use? If you got your personal use copies via your work-20, all bets are off. From everything I have read, Vista is very expensive. And, not just the base OS. It demands additional expense in hardware also for some of us. Are we just supposed to toss out our own old personal computers? Do you honestly think this will happen? ... :) And, yes, I do understand that this is one of those technology gates too. We are moving from the 32-bit OS world into the 64-bit OS world. IIRC, moving from the 16- bit OS world to the 32-bit OS world was a PITA, but nothing like what I read these days. OK. I am perhaps grossly uninformed. Accept this. Excuse me! OK. You like Vista. Fine. Many on planet Earth do not. If MS wants to push this, I suspect Apple and *nix will most likely get many, many more converts. And, this is JMHO too. And, /rant. :) Best, Duncan At 09:52 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: This is getting to be ridiculous. Yes, Vista is different. A lot of PC users do not grasp on how to use Vista. There are ways to turn off certain warnings and what not. In fact, if you have the hardware for it why not go vista? You'll miss out... The one thing I do not like about vista is the Audio control. No more Directsound to hardware. It's all done in HAL (Not the 2001 Computer either). This makes a lot of gamers pissed off, especially when they use SDPIF to connect to their speaker system. I remember not so far back that XP was getting the same, if not more of the same treatment. BTW, I've been told Mac's new OS is faster than Vista. Who knows. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:19 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Save XP! Go to this page and sign the Save XP petition. Friends don't let friends get stuck with Vista. http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/ T
Re: [H] Save XP!
Oops, my bad. I had not gotten to Brian's comment yet. No harm, no foul :) Good point. Best, Duncan At 14:42 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: Oh, I understand completely. If you go back and look, however, I was responding specifically to Brian's primary position that Vista is especially bad for IT admins. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:42 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! Greg, Can we agree that IT administrators is a very small subset of total expected/planned users? I do understand your focus, but let's look at this just a bit more broadly. Thanks. Best, Duncan At 13:05 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. snip
[H] Roaming Access to Printers
Hey guys, just began a new project this week and I thought I'd try and pick the brain of the collective. I'm going to be helping out a small charter school in my town and need to get most of their IT needs in order and very quickly. They received some generous grants and bought lots of desktops and laptops and what not but it has not been rolled out in an organized fashion yet. No domain, active directory, group policies, antivirus protection, web filtering, etc. As usual I come into the picture after all or most of this money has been spent and the equipment has already been purchased. ::sigh:: One interesting problem is that the teachers each have their own laptop and they go from classroom to classroom. The students stay put. I informed the head of the faculty that I will need to install the drivers and what not for the network printers onto each of the teachers laptops so that the teachers can start printing. Since the teachers move around they won't be printing to the same printer all the time, they will need to print to the one that is physically closer to them. I figured I would just install the printers and name them based on their physical location. When a teacher would need to print something, they would choose the appropriate printer from their printer list first then hit the print button. Simple, yes? Well they think this might be too complicated for their teachers. They want to hit print and automagically have the computer route the print job to the nearest printer instead. I have no idea how to do this.. well I suppose one could have something that sensed which wireless access point their notebook was connected to then based on that route it to the nearby printer but I still wouldnt know how to do that... So have any of gurus on here done something like this? Or should I tell them to suck it up and learn how choose a printer from the six that are available? :) -Tharin Olsen
Re: [H] Save XP!
OK. OK. Let's calm down a bit. I did not mean to step on any sore nerves (although there does seem to be lots of these with Vista). My thought: An IT Admin is that person that works in a commercial space to maintain his/her companies computer/internet infrastructure. For this work, he/she is paid a salary. That he/she is able to transfer these skills/experience from a commercial space to his/her home environment and implement the same experience/ability is not part of my definition. Perhaps I might just be too old. :) Brian, like you, I could be an IT Admin. I administer my home LAN of 5 machines, 2 switches, 1 router, and a dsl modem. And this, just to be able to get to the internet for all of my charges. Do I feel like an IT Admin? Not a bit! This LAN business is something I may never figure out. That it seems to work as well as it has for all these years is a prayer I say to the many that came before I even started playing with this stuff... :) I'm stupid now; but I'll get smarter via this List! That I am certain of. The basis of my rant was that on this List WE are Early Adopters. Period. We do play with everything just as soon as WE can get our grubby keyboard on it. I do understand this. This is an admirable service to a community that most likely just does not care for the most part..(I suspect) I vented. I ranted. That is all. If there are members that have and like Vista, fine. I accept this; just as I accept the fact that most of the members I share thoughts with are far ahead of me in both skills and general computer knowledge. I learn a bit each day from all of you. Just a List member sharing with the community at large. Best, Duncan At 16:11 01/15/2008 -0500, you wrote: I would think that any time saved for admins by the group policy improvements would be totally wiped out by the added timesinks of all the other stuff I mentioned. Although I can't prove it - I just administer my 3 machines and that is timesink enough :) On Jan 15, 2008 3:42 PM, Greg Sevart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, I understand completely. If you go back and look, however, I was responding specifically to Brian's primary position that Vista is especially bad for IT admins. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:42 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! Greg, Can we agree that IT administrators is a very small subset of total expected/planned users? I do understand your focus, but let's look at this just a bit more broadly. Thanks. Best, Duncan At 13:05 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. snip -- -- Brian Weeden Technical Consultant Secure World Foundation
Re: [H] Save XP!
At 02:04 PM 15/01/2008, Brian Weeden wrote: What improvements have Microsoft added to Vista? DX10 gaming, HD and BluRay video playback (via HDCP and lots of DRM of course), cool window animations and glassy effects. NONE of those should be used in the average workplace and in fact if I were an IT administrator I would say they are an argument AGAINST installing Vista. The added DRM features to the audio and video subsystem is already causing all sorts of unforeseen glitches. The Aero desktop just means that you have to go out and add either lots of new video cards and/or RAM and/or new machines. And the new interface means that users that were just getting used to the old interface are now lost again. All of that means tons more support calls and lots of frustration for your IT staff. Well said. T
Re: [H] Save XP!
The problem is the headaches it will cause for IT admins it will also cause for you (but for fewer machines.) T At 05:09 PM 15/01/2008, Anthony Q. Martin wrote: Vista being bad for IT admins isn't really a reason not to use Vista. In fact, if Vista did have something real to offer me I'd be willing to use it and if it caused headaches for admins, too bad. At least they'd have job security. I don't let no admins on my machine anyway (thankfully I can do that!). Greg Sevart wrote: Oh, I understand completely. If you go back and look, however, I was responding specifically to Brian's primary position that Vista is especially bad for IT admins. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:42 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! Greg, Can we agree that IT administrators is a very small subset of total expected/planned users? I do understand your focus, but let's look at this just a bit more broadly. Thanks. Best, Duncan At 13:05 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
It won't cause me any headaches though because I won't use it. Also, I'm fortunate not to need to depend on IT profs for support. Others, however, aren't so fortunate (or unfortunate) and your comments will apply to them. Thane Sherrington wrote: The problem is the headaches it will cause for IT admins it will also cause for you (but for fewer machines.) T At 05:09 PM 15/01/2008, Anthony Q. Martin wrote: Vista being bad for IT admins isn't really a reason not to use Vista. In fact, if Vista did have something real to offer me I'd be willing to use it and if it caused headaches for admins, too bad. At least they'd have job security. I don't let no admins on my machine anyway (thankfully I can do that!). Greg Sevart wrote: Oh, I understand completely. If you go back and look, however, I was responding specifically to Brian's primary position that Vista is especially bad for IT admins. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:42 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! Greg, Can we agree that IT administrators is a very small subset of total expected/planned users? I do understand your focus, but let's look at this just a bit more broadly. Thanks. Best, Duncan At 13:05 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I disagree. There are a number of substantial improvements in Vista for group policy configuration that are great for IT administrators. But people tend to overlook those things and zero in on the interface. Frankly, the interface is among the least interesting things about Vista for me. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
Brian, Is this true? Wow! Stevie is just a thief! $399? Even given it includes both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Vista. To me, that is just robbery. Even at $200 a pop. I accept that MS has a right to make money, but. But then, I am retired now, so most every 'cost' I read is a big stretch Best, Duncan At 13:24 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: snip I have bought the complete DVD version of Vista Ultimate, includes 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS for my XPS Laptop. The Cost was like $399 I think. I also, purchased an OEM version of the OS in 32-bit version and it cost like $135, I think. snip
Re: [H] Roaming Access to Printers
Tharin, I was going to offer Get Intel nics! until I finished the 1st paragraph. Now that I read the whole picture, I can offer no help. I know zip about wireless.. I do understand what the teachers wish, yet have no idea how to get to crescentic solution. Yes, you always bring really good puzzles.. :) Best, Duncan At 13:42 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: Hey guys, just began a new project this week and I thought I'd try and pick the brain of the collective. I'm going to be helping out a small charter school in my town and need to get most of their IT needs in order and very quickly. They received some generous grants and bought lots of desktops and laptops and what not but it has not been rolled out in an organized fashion yet. No domain, active directory, group policies, antivirus protection, web filtering, etc. As usual I come into the picture after all or most of this money has been spent and the equipment has already been purchased. ::sigh:: One interesting problem is that the teachers each have their own laptop and they go from classroom to classroom. The students stay put. I informed the head of the faculty that I will need to install the drivers and what not for the network printers onto each of the teachers laptops so that the teachers can start printing. Since the teachers move around they won't be printing to the same printer all the time, they will need to print to the one that is physically closer to them. I figured I would just install the printers and name them based on their physical location. When a teacher would need to print something, they would choose the appropriate printer from their printer list first then hit the print button. Simple, yes? Well they think this might be too complicated for their teachers. They want to hit print and automagically have the computer route the print job to the nearest printer instead. I have no idea how to do this.. well I suppose one could have something that sensed which wireless access point their notebook was connected to then based on that route it to the nearby printer but I still wouldnt know how to do that... So have any of gurus on here done something like this? Or should I tell them to suck it up and learn how choose a printer from the six that are available? :) -Tharin Olsen
Re: [H] Save XP!
OOps! I routed my reply to the wrong person. Please excuse me Tim. I suppose I may still be learning Email also. :)_ Best, Duncan At 13:24 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: snip I have bought the complete DVD version of Vista Ultimate, includes 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS for my XPS Laptop. The Cost was like $399 I think. I also, purchased an OEM version of the OS in 32-bit version and it cost like $135, I think. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
I admin (in a team) over 100 workstations and over 30 servers on a corporate network. We deploy pretty nice machines--almost everybody has a dual-core box with 2GB of memory and dual monitors. Vista should, from a hardware perspective, do quite decent. One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network... Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:59 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! OK. OK. Let's calm down a bit. I did not mean to step on any sore nerves (although there does seem to be lots of these with Vista). My thought: An IT Admin is that person that works in a commercial space to maintain his/her companies computer/internet infrastructure. For this work, he/she is paid a salary. That he/she is able to transfer these skills/experience from a commercial space to his/her home environment and implement the same experience/ability is not part of my definition. Perhaps I might just be too old. :)
Re: [H] Save XP!
One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
I can prevent them from doing anything by telling Vista not to interact with that device ID. For all intents and purposes, the iPod to PC interface will not exist. iPods have no place on a corporate network. I don't mind users bringing them in and using them--just don't attach them to my machines. A few months back, we spent a significant period of time troubleshooting Outlook issues that turned out to be caused by an iTunes plugin that can sync with the iPod. That's time we shouldn't have had to spend. When you have 100+ machines to maintain and are charged with ensuring employee productivity, it becomes a whole new ball game... Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Q. Martin Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:56 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
Oh, Damn! It is so good to be the king! Yes. Greg, I do understand. I understand this so well.. LOL! Have never seen it in my lifetime yet... :) If it is digital, there is a way around any fence/block. Best, Duncan At 16:48 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: I admin (in a team) over 100 workstations and over 30 servers on a corporate network. We deploy pretty nice machines--almost everybody has a dual-core box with 2GB of memory and dual monitors. Vista should, from a hardware perspective, do quite decent. One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network... Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:59 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! OK. OK. Let's calm down a bit. I did not mean to step on any sore nerves (although there does seem to be lots of these with Vista). My thought: An IT Admin is that person that works in a commercial space to maintain his/her companies computer/internet infrastructure. For this work, he/she is paid a salary. That he/she is able to transfer these skills/experience from a commercial space to his/her home environment and implement the same experience/ability is not part of my definition. Perhaps I might just be too old. :)
Re: [H] Save XP!
So when Microsoft announces that it will be soon dropping all support for Windows XP If they don't want to support it then it's too bad that they can't just release the code and make it open source! Gee, wouldn't that be interesting!
Re: [H] Save XP!
One of the problems is that Windows is not made up of 100% Microsoft code. Plus you'd need some sort of free compiler to build it - I don't think gcc will build Windows. Winterlight wrote: So when Microsoft announces that it will be soon dropping all support for Windows XP If they don't want to support it then it's too bad that they can't just release the code and make it open source! Gee, wouldn't that be interesting!
Re: [H] Save XP!
Yes you most certainly prevent people from attaching any sort of device to a computer. How is this playing God if these are corporate PC's? Users plugging in ipods, flash drives, etc. is a security risk. End users should not be using their company owned computers for anything but doing work. Anthony Q. Martin wrote: One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
Let me look at my receipt. Yes it was $399 for retail full version. But, I got $200 off from Dell getting Office Pro 2007 combo. The OEM version was a lot less expensive. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! OOps! I routed my reply to the wrong person. Please excuse me Tim. I suppose I may still be learning Email also. :)_ Best, Duncan At 13:24 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: snip I have bought the complete DVD version of Vista Ultimate, includes 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS for my XPS Laptop. The Cost was like $399 I think. I also, purchased an OEM version of the OS in 32-bit version and it cost like $135, I think. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
Well, yea. But, mostly only for the open source folks. Doesn't blow my dress up at all here in the dining room ..after 7-9 versions of MS OS's. I do get it though. I suppose that if they did, they would be signing their own going out of business notice. Best, Duncan At 15:16 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: So when Microsoft announces that it will be soon dropping all support for Windows XP If they don't want to support it then it's too bad that they can't just release the code and make it open source! Gee, wouldn't that be interesting!
Re: [H] Save XP!
Thanks Ben, That is really what I was trying to not so gracefully get to. I agree with this totally. IT gets to be internet COP. That is what the folks are paid for. Whether we like this or not is a separate discussion. Best, Duncan At 18:24 01/15/2008 -0500, you wrote: Yes you most certainly prevent people from attaching any sort of device to a computer. How is this playing God if these are corporate PC's? Users plugging in ipods, flash drives, etc. is a security risk. End users should not be using their company owned computers for anything but doing work. Anthony Q. Martin wrote: One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
Wow! Still pretty expensive. Whatever. I still plan to wait or avoid. Thanks Tim. Best, Duncan At 15:31 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: Let me look at my receipt. Yes it was $399 for retail full version. But, I got $200 off from Dell getting Office Pro 2007 combo. The OEM version was a lot less expensive. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! OOps! I routed my reply to the wrong person. Please excuse me Tim. I suppose I may still be learning Email also. :)_ Best, Duncan At 13:24 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: snip I have bought the complete DVD version of Vista Ultimate, includes 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS for my XPS Laptop. The Cost was like $399 I think. I also, purchased an OEM version of the OS in 32-bit version and it cost like $135, I think. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
Greg Sevart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few months back, we spent a significant period of time troubleshooting Outlook issues that turned out to be caused by an iTunes plugin that can sync with the iPod. That's time we shouldn't have had to spend. I can't agree with this more. Back when i was supporting 150 desktops in eight cities, I had the hardest time with people installing what ever they wanted. The company grew from a few seats to 150, but kept the small company mentality. I had an up hill battle changing the way thing were. I used to tell them, You wouldn't put racing strips on a company car, would you? al
Re: [H] Save XP!
You can't prevent them from pluggin in the cables, though you can make the PC not react to their actions. Why do you have this god complex...I don't mind them bringing them in and using them...just don't attach them to my machines iPods can be good ways for people to bring/talk work in/out. Perhaps a better solution could be found for the sync issue...it really don't sound like a user issue but a problem with software. While you might be able to control what your users can and cannot do on company machines, you can't make them productive. If they want to be unproductive...they can stare off into the open air. Greg Sevart wrote: I can prevent them from doing anything by telling Vista not to interact with that device ID. For all intents and purposes, the iPod to PC interface will not exist. iPods have no place on a corporate network. I don't mind users bringing them in and using them--just don't attach them to my machines. A few months back, we spent a significant period of time troubleshooting Outlook issues that turned out to be caused by an iTunes plugin that can sync with the iPod. That's time we shouldn't have had to spend. When you have 100+ machines to maintain and are charged with ensuring employee productivity, it becomes a whole new ball game... Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Q. Martin Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:56 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
It is not always a security risk for a user to attach a flash drive. What, you think everyone there is an idiot but you? Please explain how connecting a flash drive to a PC means they are doing anything but working? Get real people. ARe you glued to your work every minute you are there? Do you really think people are drones who shouldn't touch your machines unless they are working. Ben Ruset wrote: Yes you most certainly prevent people from attaching any sort of device to a computer. How is this playing God if these are corporate PC's? Users plugging in ipods, flash drives, etc. is a security risk. End users should not be using their company owned computers for anything but doing work. Anthony Q. Martin wrote: One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
IT is generally charged with making sure corp. stuff works, not to lord over employees like gods. DHSinclair wrote: Thanks Ben, That is really what I was trying to not so gracefully get to. I agree with this totally. IT gets to be internet COP. That is what the folks are paid for. Whether we like this or not is a separate discussion. Best, Duncan At 18:24 01/15/2008 -0500, you wrote: Yes you most certainly prevent people from attaching any sort of device to a computer. How is this playing God if these are corporate PC's? Users plugging in ipods, flash drives, etc. is a security risk. End users should not be using their company owned computers for anything but doing work. Anthony Q. Martin wrote: One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
You can't prevent them from pluggin in the cables, though you can make the PC not react to their actions. I don't care if they plug them in. It won't do anything, and that's the point. Why do you have this god complex...I don't mind them bringing them in and using them...just don't attach them to my machines It's my job. I'm responsible for the machine. It's my rules--that's the way it works. iPods can be good ways for people to bring/talk work in/out. Perhaps a better solution could be found for the sync issue...it really don't sound like a user issue but a problem with software. There are tools much better suited. While you might be able to control what your users can and cannot do on company machines, you can't make them productive. If they want to be unproductive...they can stare off into the open air. But I am charged with making sure that the devices I maintain don't HINDER productivity. That's the point. When Outlook (a huge productivity tool in a software shop) is crashing, that's productivity loss. While the specific example is an isolated case, it speaks to the larger issue...there's a reason why we have approved software and hardware. Greg
Re: [H] Save XP!
You clearly have not ever worked in a formal IT department in a corporate environment. Frankly, if corporate executive management knew it was possible, they'd have us implement software restriction policies to only allow Outlook, Excel, Word, Project, and Internet Explorer to run in the first place. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Q. Martin Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:08 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! IT is generally charged with making sure corp. stuff works, not to lord over employees like gods. DHSinclair wrote: Thanks Ben, That is really what I was trying to not so gracefully get to. I agree with this totally. IT gets to be internet COP. That is what the folks are paid for. Whether we like this or not is a separate discussion. Best, Duncan At 18:24 01/15/2008 -0500, you wrote: Yes you most certainly prevent people from attaching any sort of device to a computer. How is this playing God if these are corporate PC's? Users plugging in ipods, flash drives, etc. is a security risk. End users should not be using their company owned computers for anything but doing work. Anthony Q. Martin wrote: One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
-Original Message- From: Greg Sevart You clearly have not ever worked in a formal IT department in a corporate environment. Frankly, if corporate executive management knew it was possible, they'd have us implement software restriction policies to only allow Outlook, Excel, Word, Project, and Internet Explorer to run in the first place. Greg Greg, While I completely agree with your point of view, job description, and the necessity for control, this argument seems to go back to the days of mainframe IT control versus the use of an non-networked Apple II on an individual's desktop. It is a Corporate vs. Creative argument. Neither side is ever going to win the argument because they have opposite goals. Too bad we can't devise a way for both to co-exist in the corporate environment. JMHO. Jim Maki [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S. Can we run Access or Powerpoint? :)
Re: [H] Save XP!
Absolutely true, though I have worked in corporate environments. Companies that use such a limited set of apps and impose serious restrictions also kill off creativity, too. Probably why corp America is such a mess these days. Companies ought to hire more IT staff so that each would have fewer users to manage. Then you all could provide REAL individualized support and not stifle creativity. Controlling every mouse click a user makes doesn't increase productivity and that says nothing about quality of work done, either. Greg Sevart wrote: You clearly have not ever worked in a formal IT department in a corporate environment. Frankly, if corporate executive management knew it was possible, they'd have us implement software restriction policies to only allow Outlook, Excel, Word, Project, and Internet Explorer to run in the first place. Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Q. Martin Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:08 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! IT is generally charged with making sure corp. stuff works, not to lord over employees like gods. DHSinclair wrote: Thanks Ben, That is really what I was trying to not so gracefully get to. I agree with this totally. IT gets to be internet COP. That is what the folks are paid for. Whether we like this or not is a separate discussion. Best, Duncan At 18:24 01/15/2008 -0500, you wrote: Yes you most certainly prevent people from attaching any sort of device to a computer. How is this playing God if these are corporate PC's? Users plugging in ipods, flash drives, etc. is a security risk. End users should not be using their company owned computers for anything but doing work. Anthony Q. Martin wrote: One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
Greg Sevart wrote: You can't prevent them from pluggin in the cables, though you can make the PC not react to their actions. I don't care if they plug them in. It won't do anything, and that's the point. Well, say what you mean, Greg. Why do you have this god complex...I don't mind them bringing them in and using them...just don't attach them to my machines It's my job. I'm responsible for the machine. It's my rules--that's the way it works. Sure, you're responsible. But IT people usually want to make things easier for themselves and restrict users in the name of productivity. I admit it's not their fault alone, though, since companies probably don't want to hire enough staff to do it right. Also. MS isn't helping buy trying to own the entire desktop and building in IT-power polices to give god like abilities. Reminds me of the SUPERUSER days of old, frankly. Heck, we might as well to back to the mainframe days and give users dumb green terminals. iPods can be good ways for people to bring/talk work in/out. Perhaps a better solution could be found for the sync issue...it really don't sound like a user issue but a problem with software. There are tools much better suited. Right...make the users do what you want them to do rather than considering any user friendly/flexible option, right? While you might be able to control what your users can and cannot do on company machines, you can't make them productive. If they want to be unproductive...they can stare off into the open air. But I am charged with making sure that the devices I maintain don't HINDER productivity. There are many ways to do this, too. That's the point. When Outlook (a huge productivity tool in a software shop) is crashing, that's productivity loss. While the specific example is an isolated case, it speaks to the larger issue...there's a reason why we have approved software and hardware. Yes, I'm sure there is.
Re: [H] Save XP!
Absolutely true, though I have worked in corporate environments. Companies that use such a limited set of apps and impose serious restrictions also kill off creativity, too. Probably why corp America is such a mess these days. Oh, make no mistake--I have no desire to clamp things down that far. I want users to have measures of control. I want them to customize their machines and use tools and utilities that help them perform their work. This just has to be balanced with the needs of the corporation. This should be considered not only in terms of ensuring productivity...but also legal liability and security. Another member has touched on security--any device touching the network has the potential to compromise security. I think that one is pretty self-explanatory. Legal liability is a big one. Illegally acquired music or software on a user's machine puts the entire firm at legal risk. We're charged, among other things, to ensure that the firm isn't out of license compliance and does not harbor copyrighted material. This does mean that we have to impose some measure of control. It's a delicate balance and a definite challenge. Does my position sometimes put me at odds with users? Yes, at times. But, frankly, IT is charged to be an enabler of corporate objectives while simultaneously protecting said corporation. Sometimes that is contrary to what the user would prefer. Interestingly, I've found that users are most frustrated when their machines are unstable (for whatever reason), vs. being restricted from installing some software, or downloading some music. Greg
Re: [H] Save XP!
Greg Sevart wrote: Absolutely true, though I have worked in corporate environments. Companies that use such a limited set of apps and impose serious restrictions also kill off creativity, too. Probably why corp America is such a mess these days. Oh, make no mistake--I have no desire to clamp things down that far. I want users to have measures of control. I want them to customize their machines and use tools and utilities that help them perform their work. This just has to be balanced with the needs of the corporation. This should be considered not only in terms of ensuring productivity...but also legal liability and security. Another member has touched on security--any device touching the network has the potential to compromise security. I think that one is pretty self-explanatory. -- Legal liability is a big one. Illegally acquired music or software on a user's machine puts the entire firm at legal risk. We're charged, among other things, to ensure that the firm isn't out of license compliance and does not harbor copyrighted material. This does mean that we have to impose some measure of control. It's a delicate balance and a definite challenge. Does my position sometimes put me at odds with users? Yes, at times. But, frankly, IT is charged to be an enabler of corporate objectives while simultaneously protecting said corporation. Sometimes that is contrary to what the user would prefer. - This is an area of your responsibility that I total respect and get. However, as a user, I feel an obligation of my own not to do things that put my company at legal risk and also consider this a potential way to lose my job. I frankly wonder how many people in corp. American don't get this by now? I'm sure some of the smaller shops might find it necessary to cut corners and steal software, but how many bigger shops can afford it? One pissed off employee and game over! Interestingly, I've found that users are most frustrated when their machines are unstable (for whatever reason), vs. being restricted from installing some software, or downloading some music. Well, if they are locked down tightly they are doing much of the latter, so naturally they get pissed when the former occurs! :) Anyway, I'm done. I do get the point of your jobs. I was just going done memory lane a bit.
Re: [H] Save XP!
At 06:48 PM 15/01/2008, Greg Sevart wrote: I admin (in a team) over 100 workstations and over 30 servers on a corporate network. We deploy pretty nice machines--almost everybody has a dual-core box with 2GB of memory and dual monitors. Vista should, from a hardware perspective, do quite decent. One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network... Well, this is a cool feature, and I see why you want it. But surely they could have patched XP to add this functionality and not add the crap and bloat that Vista brings with it? T
Re: [H] Save XP!
Anthony, I was agreeing with you until this post. Yes, a company, and its' IT department, can and should control their machines, network, and what their employees do with same. The PC is a tool to enable worker productivity. The machines, and all the bits and bytes on them belong to the company; for the benefit of the company. Flash Drives are notorious carriers of virii. If an employee does not like the policy; the employee is free to find another job with a company with a different IT policy. JMHO. Best, Duncan At 19:06 01/15/2008 -0500, you wrote: It is not always a security risk for a user to attach a flash drive. What, you think everyone there is an idiot but you? Please explain how connecting a flash drive to a PC means they are doing anything but working? Get real people. ARe you glued to your work every minute you are there? Do you really think people are drones who shouldn't touch your machines unless they are working. Ben Ruset wrote: Yes you most certainly prevent people from attaching any sort of device to a computer. How is this playing God if these are corporate PC's? Users plugging in ipods, flash drives, etc. is a security risk. End users should not be using their company owned computers for anything but doing work. Anthony Q. Martin wrote: One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
Ben, Yes, I know. I had very a very cordial relationship with my company's IT folk. For a time I was one too, but that was before Windows! In a corp. network, somebody has to be the cop. Tough job all around. Hat's off to anyone who works a corp. IT job. JMHO. Best, Duncan At 19:08 01/15/2008 -0500, you wrote: IT is generally charged with making sure corp. stuff works, not to lord over employees like gods. DHSinclair wrote: Thanks Ben, That is really what I was trying to not so gracefully get to. I agree with this totally. IT gets to be internet COP. That is what the folks are paid for. Whether we like this or not is a separate discussion. Best, Duncan At 18:24 01/15/2008 -0500, you wrote: Yes you most certainly prevent people from attaching any sort of device to a computer. How is this playing God if these are corporate PC's? Users plugging in ipods, flash drives, etc. is a security risk. End users should not be using their company owned computers for anything but doing work. Anthony Q. Martin wrote: One of the big things I'm looking forward to is the new ability to block hardware installation by device ID via GPO. I would absolutely love to prevent people from attaching their iPods to machines on my network...\ You can't prevent people from attaching their iPods to their machines. Perhaps you can prevent them from using them as they are intended to be used But why do you need to play god?
Re: [H] Save XP!
OK... so we've had XP/Vista, 'The AV argument', next is Dell vs. Custom Built/White boxes... DELL SUCKS. DING!!! - Round ONE -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
Re: [H] Save XP!
At 09:23 PM 15/01/2008, Joe User wrote: OK... so we've had XP/Vista, 'The AV argument', next is Dell vs. Custom Built/White boxes... DELL SUCKS. DING!!! - Round ONE ROTFL! Here's another Dell story: Customer brings in a Dell laptop that won't boot. She's already talked to Dell who has told her that her Windows is damaged and needs to be reinstalled. The Dell geniuses have tested the hard drive and there's nothing wrong with it. Of course, the hard drive is showing bad sectors and failing its internal SMART self-test. Hopefully it isn't under warranty so I don't have to spend 45 minutes convincing Dell not to screw their customer by waiting until the drive dies completely before replacing it. T
Re: [H] Save XP!
ROTFLMAO Waiting for round 2! Best, Duncan At 19:23 01/15/2008 -0600, you wrote: OK... so we've had XP/Vista, 'The AV argument', next is Dell vs. Custom Built/White boxes... DELL SUCKS. DING!!! - Round ONE -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
Re: [H] Save XP!
It was, but remember its Retail not OEM. Right now Vista Ultimate goes for $189.99 for 64-bit and $169.99 for 32-bit. Also, the Retail version has both 64-bit and 32-bit version in it. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:43 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! Wow! Still pretty expensive. Whatever. I still plan to wait or avoid. Thanks Tim. Best, Duncan At 15:31 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: Let me look at my receipt. Yes it was $399 for retail full version. But, I got $200 off from Dell getting Office Pro 2007 combo. The OEM version was a lot less expensive. Regards, Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:33 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! OOps! I routed my reply to the wrong person. Please excuse me Tim. I suppose I may still be learning Email also. :)_ Best, Duncan At 13:24 01/15/2008 -0800, you wrote: snip I have bought the complete DVD version of Vista Ultimate, includes 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS for my XPS Laptop. The Cost was like $399 I think. I also, purchased an OEM version of the OS in 32-bit version and it cost like $135, I think. snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
The Dell Switches we got are awesome. Very nice... The XPS Laptop I got very nice next day service on it and everything. Only the video card broke down, replaced next day. The Dell Inspiron I got for a friend not so good. It broke down numerous times. Tim The Beave Lider MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.myspace.com/dowbeave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:37 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! OK, really waiting for round 3. And, was getting ready to order a pair of 2716 switches from Dell. Hmm. Perhaps so more thought. Best, Duncan At 21:28 01/15/2008 -0400, you wrote: At 09:23 PM 15/01/2008, Joe User wrote: OK... so we've had XP/Vista, 'The AV argument', next is Dell vs. Custom Built/White boxes... DELL SUCKS. DING!!! - Round ONE ROTFL! Here's another Dell story: Customer brings in a Dell laptop that won't boot. She's already talked to Dell who has told her that her Windows is damaged and needs to be reinstalled. The Dell geniuses have tested the hard drive and there's nothing wrong with it. Of course, the hard drive is showing bad sectors and failing its internal SMART self-test. Hopefully it isn't under warranty so I don't have to spend 45 minutes convincing Dell not to screw their customer by waiting until the drive dies completely before replacing it. T
Re: [H] lmhosts file?
j maccraw, I'll try and answer inline below, as best that I can... :) At 17:14 01/14/2008 -0800, you wrote: LMHOSTS is a stand-in for DNS in the sense that it does domain-to-ip translation. Thanks. I suspected this from my reading. And why I asked I should update my file before bringing another 'new' ip addy on the LAN. I do get that this may be really old fashioned, but it works for me ATM. Odds are that your router is your DNS server and as such should be able to resolve all of you lan machine names into IP's w/o using the lmhosts kludge. To the best of my knowledge this is just not the case. All of my clients and my current router use either OpenDNS addresses, or, the suggested two DNS servers for BellSouth. And no, I do not allow my current router to do 'DNS Relay' either. I may enable this feature in the future, however. All this extra mental gymnastics go out the window if you'd just see the light and use DHCP. I mean who cares what IP address a system is on if you can get there by name anyway Yes, I do understand what you say. Let's just say I am a creature of habit. I like to uniquely assign my clients IP addy's AND have them stay that way until I decide otherwise. Let's just agree that this is my limited bit of control within my LAN ATM! LOL! Like Tomato---Tomahto, no? No LEDs lit WOULD mean that some part of the router is dead since having a physical link lights a light reguardless of what a higher layer does. Thank you. That is what I thought also, but could not find supporting docs to support this observation. I suspect that the 'router' side (w/telnet) works since I can talk telnet to it. The 'switch' port LEDs only light up if/when I force a rom0 or f/w upload. So, I do know that the LEDs do work! Just not when I need them too! LOL! Really odd. Really fun tool In the AM I'll put power to the brick again and see it the last rom0/firmware upload worked. For some unknown reason I keep getting a 'retry' during the f/w upload at the same place each time I do it (about 13 minutes into a 20 minute upload). Perhaps I have a bad dot-bin file. Have a new one to try also. Old password is reset! Old IP addy is reset! Old everything else is reset! Making forward progress so far. Thanks for your patience. Yes, I am mule-headed. Best, Duncan snip
Re: [H] Save XP!
First, let me preface...I would never use a Dell for my home workstations. However, putting on the corporate hat once again, Dell (or, rather, any large vendor) has definite advantages. I don't have time to build every machine and server we deploy, and for servers, guaranteed interoperability is of paramount concern. I also don't have the time to extensively troubleshoot every system fault. I call Dell, they come fix it. Dell (and others) also have nice systems management software and firmware/driver update mechanisms--quite nice for the busy IT department. Support contracts are corporate kings. If I have a drive in the SAN or a production box die, I can get a replacement drive delivered to my desk within 2 hours. That level of responsiveness is worth its weight in gold when you're facing the prospect of totally down or degraded/vulnerable servers. Not that I'm big on Dell...they just serve our needs quite well. That and the rather sizable commercial discounts... Greg -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:28 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Save XP! At 09:23 PM 15/01/2008, Joe User wrote: OK... so we've had XP/Vista, 'The AV argument', next is Dell vs. Custom Built/White boxes... DELL SUCKS. DING!!! - Round ONE ROTFL! Here's another Dell story: Customer brings in a Dell laptop that won't boot. She's already talked to Dell who has told her that her Windows is damaged and needs to be reinstalled. The Dell geniuses have tested the hard drive and there's nothing wrong with it. Of course, the hard drive is showing bad sectors and failing its internal SMART self-test. Hopefully it isn't under warranty so I don't have to spend 45 minutes convincing Dell not to screw their customer by waiting until the drive dies completely before replacing it. T
Re: [H] Roaming Access to Printers
The only thing that I can find that comes close is Printer Location Tracking in AD, but that doesn't really do what you want to do. There's no automatic way of having it print to the nearest printer, since physical distance is not a factor in IP Networks. Tharin Olsen wrote: Hey guys, just began a new project this week and I thought I'd try and pick the brain of the collective. I'm going to be helping out a small charter school in my town and need to get most of their IT needs in order and very quickly. They received some generous grants and bought lots of desktops and laptops and what not but it has not been rolled out in an organized fashion yet. No domain, active directory, group policies, antivirus protection, web filtering, etc. As usual I come into the picture after all or most of this money has been spent and the equipment has already been purchased. ::sigh:: One interesting problem is that the teachers each have their own laptop and they go from classroom to classroom. The students stay put. I informed the head of the faculty that I will need to install the drivers and what not for the network printers onto each of the teachers laptops so that the teachers can start printing. Since the teachers move around they won't be printing to the same printer all the time, they will need to print to the one that is physically closer to them. I figured I would just install the printers and name them based on their physical location. When a teacher would need to print something, they would choose the appropriate printer from their printer list first then hit the print button. Simple, yes? Well they think this might be too complicated for their teachers. They want to hit print and automagically have the computer route the print job to the nearest printer instead. I have no idea how to do this.. well I suppose one could have something that sensed which wireless access point their notebook was connected to then based on that route it to the nearby printer but I still wouldnt know how to do that... So have any of gurus on here done something like this? Or should I tell them to suck it up and learn how choose a printer from the six that are available? :) -Tharin Olsen
Re: [H] Save XP!
Hello Thane, Tuesday, January 15, 2008, 7:28:18 PM, you wrote: ROTFL! Here's another Dell story: Customer brings in a Dell laptop that won't boot. She's already talked to Dell who has told her that her Windows is damaged and needs to be reinstalled. The Dell geniuses have tested the hard drive and there's nothing wrong with it. Of course, the hard drive is showing bad sectors and failing its internal SMART self-test. Hopefully it isn't under warranty so I don't have to spend 45 minutes convincing Dell not to screw their customer by waiting until the drive dies completely before replacing it. Nice. See once we get these loaded and hot conversations threaded all to Hell and gone - we can have a good year and have our quota of 'us vs. them' done for the year. Unless we want to get into politics?! JOKE -- Regards, joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
Re: [H] Possible router failure
Thanks to everyone. Derrick, the NIC suggestion was great, but not the answer, unfortunately. Duncan gets the gold star. That reset method does work very well. It seems to clear everything. I found that the wired router was nearly dead, really plugging up the works, so removed it, and once the wireless had been properly reset, it installed like a dream and I'm up and flying. Once again, thanks to all of you for the help. Jeff
Re: [H] Roaming Access to Printers
Not automatic but you could like run a script that asks what room they are in then sets windows default printer to it. At least then they would only have to run the menu once upon entering the room rather than choosing the right printer for each print job or worse having to know how to set the default printer. For automatic I think you'd have to use something really short range like RFID a reader (USB dongle???) that would call a script to set the default printer when it sensed a new tag. Another idea is maybe local only printing via USB and all the same model printer so you'd just dock have the right printer all the time. Makes me wonder: Did wireless USB connectivity ever hit the market finally? Tharin Olsen wrote: Hey guys, just began a new project this week and I thought I'd try and pick the brain of the collective. I'm going to be helping out a small charter school in my town and need to get most of their IT needs in order and very quickly. They received some generous grants and bought lots of desktops and laptops and what not but it has not been rolled out in an organized fashion yet. No domain, active directory, group policies, antivirus protection, web filtering, etc. As usual I come into the picture after all or most of this money has been spent and the equipment has already been purchased. ::sigh:: One interesting problem is that the teachers each have their own laptop and they go from classroom to classroom. The students stay put. I informed the head of the faculty that I will need to install the drivers and what not for the network printers onto each of the teachers laptops so that the teachers can start printing. Since the teachers move around they won't be printing to the same printer all the time, they will need to print to the one that is physically closer to them. I figured I would just install the printers and name them based on their physical location. When a teacher would need to print something, they would choose the appropriate printer from their printer list first then hit the print button. Simple, yes? Well they think this might be too complicated for their teachers. They want to hit print and automagically have the computer route the print job to the nearest printer instead. I have no idea how to do this.. well I suppose one could have something that sensed which wireless access point their notebook was connected to then based on that route it to the nearby printer but I still wouldnt know how to do that... So have any of gurus on here done something like this? Or should I tell them to suck it up and learn how choose a printer from the six that are available? :) -Tharin Olsen Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] Roaming Access to Printers
Only way I can think to do this is using bluetooth for proximity printing, like how the followme feature works in asterisk and on misterhouse. I'm surprised there isn't an available open source alternative for this. (Google doesn't show much) http://www.ringdale.com/FollowMe/ lopaka Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only thing that I can find that comes close is Printer Location Tracking in AD, but that doesn't really do what you want to do. There's no automatic way of having it print to the nearest printer, since physical distance is not a factor in IP Networks. Tharin Olsen wrote: Hey guys, just began a new project this week and I thought I'd try and pick the brain of the collective. I'm going to be helping out a small charter school in my town and need to get most of their IT needs in order and very quickly. They received some generous grants and bought lots of desktops and laptops and what not but it has not been rolled out in an organized fashion yet. No domain, active directory, group policies, antivirus protection, web filtering, etc. As usual I come into the picture after all or most of this money has been spent and the equipment has already been purchased. ::sigh:: One interesting problem is that the teachers each have their own laptop and they go from classroom to classroom. The students stay put. I informed the head of the faculty that I will need to install the drivers and what not for the network printers onto each of the teachers laptops so that the teachers can start printing. Since the teachers move around they won't be printing to the same printer all the time, they will need to print to the one that is physically closer to them. I figured I would just install the printers and name them based on their physical location. When a teacher would need to print something, they would choose the appropriate printer from their printer list first then hit the print button. Simple, yes? Well they think this might be too complicated for their teachers. They want to hit print and automagically have the computer route the print job to the nearest printer instead. I have no idea how to do this.. well I suppose one could have something that sensed which wireless access point their notebook was connected to then based on that route it to the nearby printer but I still wouldnt know how to do that... So have any of gurus on here done something like this? Or should I tell them to suck it up and learn how choose a printer from the six that are available? :) -Tharin Olsen
