Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-27 Thread Howard Brazee
On 23 May 2009 12:32:09 -0700, paulgboul...@aim.com (Paul Gilmartin) wrote: You seem to be agreeing with Steve Thompson that In the MVS world, we are not device dependant, only insofar as there is only one type of device. A weak assertion indeed. Would you be willing to go so far as to side

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-27 Thread Howard Brazee
On 25 May 2009 18:23:38 -0700, joa...@swbell.net (John McKown) wrote: I agree, except for truly direct access data sets. What I have fought with here is the mindset of I must allocate in CYLINDERS in order to be efficient. I want them to allocate in RECORDS (or millions of records). But, oh,

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-27 Thread Ted MacNEIL
And of course, people cut and paste their SORTWK* files often without thinking. We made it even more turnkey than that. We cleaned up all the Production JCL, and made them dynamic. After all, they are temporary anyway, make them all very, very large and we won't be called in. With SYNCSORT,

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-27 Thread Clark Morris
On 25 May 2009 19:16:25 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 6:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS On Sat, 23 May

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-27 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Mon, 25 May 2009 19:13:43 -0700, Gibney, Dave wrote: OK, but how is this desire not satisfied via AVGREC allocations? Oh, it is and you'll claim your applications folks can't handle the concept. AVGREC is: o Woefully misleading; it seems to abbreviate AVeraGe RECord size, with which it

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-27 Thread Gibney, Dave
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS On Mon, 25 May 2009 19:13:43 -0700, Gibney, Dave wrote: OK, but how

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-25 Thread John McKown
On Sat, 23 May 2009, Ted MacNEIL wrote: You seem to be agreeing with Steve Thompson that In the MVS world, we are not device dependant, only insofar as there is only one type of device. A weak assertion indeed. Not at all. There are at least two device types -- tape and disk. And, I

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-25 Thread Gibney, Dave
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John McKown Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 6:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS On Sat, 23 May 2009, Ted MacNEIL wrote: You seem to be agreeing with Steve

Re: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-24 Thread Ed Gould
--- On Sat, 5/23/09, Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com wrote: From: Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com Subject: Re: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Saturday, May 23, 2009, 9:26 AM Ed, And yet, IBM is hiring 1,300 people in Dubuque

Re: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-23 Thread Eric Bielefeld
Ed, And yet, IBM is hiring 1,300 people in Dubuque Iowa. I'm sure they will hire some who got laid off in other areas of the country, but it is a good sign. Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 - Original Message - From: Ed Gould

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-23 Thread Joel C Ewing
Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Fri, 15 May 2009 09:27:42 -0400, Thompson, Steve wrote: Welcome to the MVS world. In the MVS world, we are not device dependant, nor are we data definition locked/blocked. We generally don't have to recompile our programs, change the DTF contents (DCB in MVS), etc. just

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-23 Thread Ted MacNEIL
All things being equal, I would much rather not use my scarce time dealing with DASD architecture migration. Having gone from 3330 -- 3350 -- 3380 -- 3390 (emulation mode) -- 3390 (native), I agree 100%! IBM promised, years ago, to not change the geometry again. Better the devil you know; I

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-23 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sat, 23 May 2009 19:12:19 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote: All things being equal, I would much rather not use my scarce time dealing with DASD architecture migration. Having gone from 3330 -- 3350 -- 3380 -- 3390 (emulation mode) -- 3390 (native), I agree 100%! IBM promised, years ago, to not

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-23 Thread Ted MacNEIL
You seem to be agreeing with Steve Thompson that In the MVS world, we are not device dependant, only insofar as there is only one type of device. A weak assertion indeed. Not at all. There are at least two device types -- tape and disk. And, I can convert to either without re-compiling. That

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-23 Thread R.S.
Ted MacNEIL pisze: You seem to be agreeing with Steve Thompson that In the MVS world, we are not device dependant, only insofar as there is only one type of device. A weak assertion indeed. Not at all. There are at least two device types -- tape and disk. And, I can convert to either

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-23 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 20:24 -0300 on 05/18/2009, Clark Morris wrote about Re: BLOCK CONTAINS: On 18 May 2009 13:35:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Ah! NOBLOCK had F/80/80 whereas BLOCK1 had FB/80/80. BLOCK0 still had FB/80/27920. But it is still interesting, to me, that BLOCK CONTAINS 1

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-23 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 16:07 -0500 on 05/18/2009, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Re: BLOCK CONTAINS: On Mon, 18 May 2009 18:18:20 +0200, Gilbert Saint-Flour wrote: On Monday 18 May 2009 18:04, Paul Gilmartin wrote: What a stupid necessity that programmers have to code BLOCK CONTAINS 0 ! What happens

Re: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-22 Thread Ed Gould
--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Martin Packer martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com wrote: --SNIP--- Do you suppose it has to be YOUR Marketing Rep? Or just a friendly IBMer in the field? Cheers, Martin (still striving to be a friendly IBMer after all these years) :-)

Re: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-21 Thread Knutson, Sam
Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Klein Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS Frank Swarbrick fswarbr...@gmail.com wrote in message news:listserv%200905191643164240.0

Re: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-20 Thread Martin Packer
(was: BLOCK CONTAINS Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Frank Swarbrick fswarbr...@gmail.com wrote in message news:listserv%200905191643164240.0...@bama.ua.edu... snip By the way, any pointers on how to submit a marketing requirement? VSE actually has

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-20 Thread Howard Brazee
On 18 May 2009 12:41:15 -0700, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: I don't think it's a lie. Historically, ZERO has always had a special meaning. In COBOL's case, it just means that the programme is not going to determine the blocksize, but leaves a place-holder for it when it's decided

Re: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-20 Thread Linda Mooney
@bama.ua.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:35:16 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS Frank Swarbrick fswarbr...@gmail.com wrote in message news:listserv%200905191643164240.0...@bama.ua.edu... snip By the way, any pointers on how

BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-19 Thread Bill Klein
Actually, I don't think the Standard has much opinion on the entire BLOCK CONTAINS clause. The fact is that MOST existing conforming COBOL compilers run in environments where blocking doesn't exist any more. For most conforming compilers, this phrase is documented as syntax checked but has

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-19 Thread Frank Swarbrick
be BLOCK 0. Great idea, and I wish IBM added that option to the compiler. What a stupid necessity that programmers have to code BLOCK CONTAINS 0 ! What happens if the programmer pre-allocates the data set? It's still a stupid necessity, but it might help in dealing with situations where

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-19 Thread Frank Swarbrick
On Mon, 18 May 2009 13:08:28 -0500, John McKown joa...@swbell.net wrote: I just ran a quick test using Enterprise COBOL 3.4.1. I had one input FD and three output FDs. The output FDs were: (1) No BLOCK CONTAINS at all; (2) BLOCK CONTAINS 0 RECORDS; and (3) BLOCK CONTAINS 1 RECORDS. I directed

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-19 Thread Frank Swarbrick
): - 13.16.10 BLOCK CONTAINS clause The BLOCK CONTAINS clause specifies the size of a physical record. 13.16.10.1 General format 13.16.10.2 Syntax rules 1) If integer-1 is specified, integer-2 shall be greater than integer-1. 13.16.10.3 General rules 1) This clause is required

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-19 Thread Frank Swarbrick
, but it is important to understand exactly does happen/when/how under z/OS - so the requirements for the conversion are resourced and met. As I have said previously, I do think that having Block Contains 0 is the best solution - as it gives desirable results when the phrase is used and doesn't hurt when

Submitting a Marketing REQUEST (was: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-19 Thread Bill Klein
Frank Swarbrick fswarbr...@gmail.com wrote in message news:listserv%200905191643164240.0...@bama.ua.edu... snip By the way, any pointers on how to submit a marketing requirement? VSE actually has a submit a requirement web page (https://www-

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Howard Brazee
On 15 May 2009 18:08:22 -0700, cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca (Clark Morris) wrote: I checked the reference you gave and for QSAM files, if the BLOCK CONTAINS clause is omitted, BLOCK 1 RECORD is assumed. This stupidity has aggravated me for years. The whole idea of (IBM mainframe) CoBOL still

Fw: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Bill Klein
I may (a while ago - in the past) have mislead Clark. There is DEFINITELY a difference between coding Block Contains 1 versus omitting the Block CONTAINS clause (for output files) The former creates a RECFM=FB/BM file (with one record per block) while the latter produces a RECFM=F/V

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Gilbert Saint-Flour
On Friday 15 May 2009 04:47, Clark Morris wrote: I submitted a SHARE requirement back in the 1990's to have a compile option that the default be BLOCK 0. Great idea, and I wish IBM added that option to the compiler. What a stupid necessity that programmers have to code BLOCK

Fw: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Bill Klein
I don't know about Clark submitting a requirement in the 90's, but there is an existing SHARE requirement: SSLNGC03003 Compiler option to make BLOCK CONTAINS clause SMS sensitive (Part of the Description) The current default for when the BLOCK CONTAINS x RECORDS clause is omitted

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Paul Gilmartin
a stupid necessity that programmers have to code BLOCK CONTAINS 0 ! What happens if the programmer pre-allocates the data set? It's still a stupid necessity, but it might help in dealing with situations where recompilation is impractical. -- gil

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Gilbert Saint-Flour
On Monday 18 May 2009 18:04, Paul Gilmartin wrote: What a stupid necessity that programmers have to code BLOCK CONTAINS 0 ! What happens if the programmer pre-allocates the data set?   It's still a stupid necessity, but it might help in dealing with situations where recompilation

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread McKown, John
Curiousity question: would using the IFG0EX0B exit be a Good Idea(tm)? From my initial reading, it can change the BLKSIZE. And likely the RECFM as well (to change F/V to FB/VB). -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N.

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread John McKown
I just ran a quick test using Enterprise COBOL 3.4.1. I had one input FD and three output FDs. The output FDs were: (1) No BLOCK CONTAINS at all; (2) BLOCK CONTAINS 0 RECORDS; and (3) BLOCK CONTAINS 1 RECORDS. I directed each to a separate SMS managed disk dataset. On the JCL for each output file

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Ted MacNEIL
The whole idea of (IBM mainframe) CoBOL still caring about blocksize is irritating. The fix of making BLOCK CONTAINS 0 is IMHO, not the way fixes should be. I really don't think this qualifies as a 'fix'. I learned COBOL in 1976, and was taught, back then, to always use BLOCK CONTAINS 0 RECORDS

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Ted MacNEIL
What a stupid necessity that programmers have to code BLOCK CONTAINS 0 ! What a stupid necessity that REXX programmers have to code: PARSE (UPPER) ARG var1 var2 ... What a stupid necessity to have to code extra volumes in JCL/IDCAMS (or in your ACS) routines. What a stupid necessity

Fw: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Bill Klein
/where the different BLOCK CONTAINS clauses make a difference. John McKown joa...@swbell.net wrote in message news:listserv%200905181308288278.0...@bama.ua.edu... I just ran a quick test using Enterprise COBOL 3.4.1. I had one input FD and three output FDs. The output FDs were: (1) No BLOCK

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Howard Brazee
On 18 May 2009 11:30:02 -0700, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: The whole idea of (IBM mainframe) CoBOL still caring about blocksize is irritating. The fix of making BLOCK CONTAINS 0 is IMHO, not the way fixes should be. I really don't think this qualifies as a 'fix'. I learned COBOL

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Ted MacNEIL
It is a lie to say BLOCK CONTAINS 0 RECORDS, it would have been better to have done that by leaving out the line altogether. I don't think it's a lie. Historically, ZERO has always had a special meaning. In COBOL's case, it just means that the programme is not going to determine the blocksize

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Klein Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:45 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Fw: BLOCK CONTAINS John, What happens if you run the exact same test, but instead of having

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Mon, 18 May 2009 18:18:20 +0200, Gilbert Saint-Flour wrote: On Monday 18 May 2009 18:04, Paul Gilmartin wrote: What a stupid necessity that programmers have to code BLOCK CONTAINS 0 ! What happens if the programmer pre-allocates the data set?   It's still a stupid necessity, but it might

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Ted MacNEIL
Yah. It should be done by the access method; the application should be oblivious to the entire blocking process. We have 45 years of baggage. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Most people/shops have templates with these things already specified. Copy, and move on. If BLOCK CONTAINS is an issue, you

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Clark Morris
On 18 May 2009 13:35:40 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Klein Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:45 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Fw: BLOCK CONTAINS John, What

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Clark Morris
On 18 May 2009 14:10:36 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: On Mon, 18 May 2009 18:18:20 +0200, Gilbert Saint-Flour wrote: On Monday 18 May 2009 18:04, Paul Gilmartin wrote: What a stupid necessity that programmers have to code BLOCK CONTAINS 0 ! What happens if the programmer pre

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Mon, 18 May 2009 21:28:02 +, Ted MacNEIL wrote: We have 45 years of baggage. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Most people/shops have templates with these things already specified. Copy, and move on. Whenever I hear this diachronic rationale for some deficiency of z/OS, I think of the political

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Ted MacNEIL
: America: Love it or leave it! were countered with: America: Change it or lose it! C 'America' 'z/OS' ALL You missed my point(s): 1. The existance of templates can/does handle the requirement for BLOCK CONTAINS. 2. Some things are way to trivial to lose sleep over. 3. There are more

Fw: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Bill Klein
Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote in message news:listserv%200905181607125082.0...@bama.ua.edu... On Mon, 18 May 2009 18:18:20 +0200, Gilbert Saint-Flour wrote: snip Is default unblocked an ANSI Standard requirement? (Of course this doesn't preclude an extension implemented via

BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Bill Klein
the requirements for the conversion are resourced and met. As I have said previously, I do think that having Block Contains 0 is the best solution - as it gives desirable results when the phrase is used and doesn't hurt when it isn't used. Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote in message news:1311180719

Re: Fw: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-18 Thread Paul Gilmartin
the BLOCK CONTAINS clause is omitted, that externally specified (by DD or SDB) value should prevail. And thus that z/OS COBOL deviates from the Standard on this matter. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access

Fw: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-16 Thread Bill Klein
a file as RECFM=VB, BLKSIZE=1, LRECL=4004 then 1) If Cobol says BLOCK CONTAINS 1 it works (of course). 2) If Cobol says BLOCK CONTAINS 0 it works. 3) If Cobol says BLOCK CONTAINS 12345 it works (!!!) 4) If Cobol does not have a BLOCK CONTAINS clause it works (!!!) This is the case

Re: VSE I/O Performance VS MVS [was BLOCK CONTAINS]

2009-05-16 Thread Clark Morris
...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 6:20 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: VSE I/O Performance VS MVS [was BLOCK CONTAINS] On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:09:33 -0400, Thompson, Steve steve_thomp...@stercomm.com wrote: Because of past conversions, I think this needs to be said: 1) VSE/ESA got

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Reda, John
, Inc. 201-930-8260 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Clark Morris Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:45 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS snip While blocked input files may be read successfully if neither

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Thompson, Steve
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Frank Swarbrick Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:03 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: BLOCK CONTAINS I have been a bit of experimenting with z/OS QSAM files from a Cobol program and I find

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Gilbert Saint-Flour
On Friday 15 May 2009 02:05, Frank Swarbrick wrote: We are migrating from VSE to z/OS, and at the same time we are going to convert most of our existing ESDS files to regular sequential files.   I see no reason to add BLOCK CONTAINS 0 to all of our FD's if it has no affect (our VSAM FD's do

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Ward, Mike S
] On Behalf Of Gilbert Saint-Flour Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:29 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS On Friday 15 May 2009 02:05, Frank Swarbrick wrote: We are migrating from VSE to z/OS, and at the same time we are going to convert most of our existing ESDS files to regular

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]
...@ssfcu.org] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:37 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS What if a new device came out and there was a better optimum blocksize for it? Wouldn't you have to recompile everthing that used that file to get the optimum blocksize? I don't know I'm just asking

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Thompson, Steve
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ward, Mike S Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 8:38 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS What if a new device came out and there was a better optimum blocksize for it? Wouldn't

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Fri, 15 May 2009 09:27:42 -0400, Thompson, Steve wrote: Welcome to the MVS world. In the MVS world, we are not device dependant, nor are we data definition locked/blocked. We generally don't have to recompile our programs, change the DTF contents (DCB in MVS), etc. just because the file

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Thompson, Steve
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS On Fri, 15 May 2009 09:27:42 -0400, Thompson, Steve wrote: Welcome to the MVS world

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Ted MacNEIL
If we are not device dependant, why is there such intense trepidation and resistance to the mere suggestion of a device with a novel geometry such as more bytes per track or more tracks per cylinder? That is a different issue. If you code BLOCK CONTAINS 0, your application does not need

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Frank Swarbrick
. The manuals seem to imply that if you use the BLOCK CONTAINS clause (whether 0 or something else) then the file has a RECFM of either VB or FB. And if you don't include it then it's either V or B. While blocked input files may be read successfully if neither the block size nor BLOCK 0 is specified

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Frank Swarbrick
On Fri, 15 May 2009 09:27:42 -0400, Thompson, Steve steve_thomp...@stercomm.com wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Frank Swarbrick Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:03 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: BLOCK CONTAINS

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread McKown, John
Perhaps this explains the observed action? http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IGY3LR31/5.2.4 quote BLOCK CONTAINS 0 can be specified for QSAM files. If BLOCK CONTAINS 0 is specified for a QSAM file, then: * The block size is determined at run time from

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Frank Swarbrick
no reason to add BLOCK CONTAINS 0 to all of our FD's if it has no affect (our VSAM FD's do not (generally!) specify the BLOCK CONTAINS clause, because it has no meaning to VSAM). IIRC, BLOCK CONTAINS 0 is only needed for OUTPUT files in COBOL, but I think it's better to put it everywhere, so

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Frank Swarbrick
On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:34:31 -0400, Thompson, Steve steve_thomp...@stercomm.com wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Steve Comstock
that if you use the BLOCK CONTAINS clause (whether 0 or something else) then the file has a RECFM of either VB or FB. And if you don't include it then it's either V or B. We are not using a vendor. We have systems and applications programmers that come from the MVS world, so we're going

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Rick Fochtman
--snip What if a new device came out and there was a better optimum blocksize for it? Wouldn't you have to recompile everthing that used that file to get the optimum blocksize? I don't know I'm just asking.

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Frank Swarbrick
On Fri, 15 May 2009 11:31:19 -0500, McKown, John jmck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Perhaps this explains the observed action? http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi- bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IGY3LR31/5.2.4 quote BLOCK CONTAINS 0 can be specified for QSAM files. If BLOCK CONTAINS 0 is specified

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Gibney, Dave
3) If Cobol says BLOCK CONTAINS 12345 it works (!!!) I'll bet you 3) If Cobol says BLOCK CONTAINS doesn't :) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Frank Swarbrick
job of pointing this out. Here is an extract from one page in our course Enterprise COBOL Update I: Essentials: While not strictly a change to the language, there has been a change to the way OPEN works that is worthwhile knowing about * Historically, coding BLOCK CONTAINS ensured the value

VSE I/O Performance VS MVS [was BLOCK CONTAINS]

2009-05-15 Thread Thompson, Steve
Because of past conversions, I think this needs to be said: 1) VSE/ESA got to use XA I/O just like MVS. This means, to the VSE shop, that some slick stuff that got offloaded to the I/O Subsystem (shall we say parts of VM's and MVS' I/O Supervisor code) became available w/o any JCL or application

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Frank Swarbrick
On Fri, 15 May 2009 10:05:48 -0700, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: 3) If Cobol says BLOCK CONTAINS 12345 it works (!!!) I'll bet you 3) If Cobol says BLOCK CONTAINS doesn't :) Sorry, you lose that bet. That does work. The only things that I've been able to determine simple do

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Gibney, Dave
By fail, I would have expected you to get an I/O error reading an existing file where the COBOL BLOCK CONTAINS is less. But, now I think about it, recent DFP, like somewhere in the last coupe decades (Probably around os390 1.4 or 2.5 for us) OPEN got smarter and handles unlike block sizes much

Re: VSE I/O Performance VS MVS [was BLOCK CONTAINS]

2009-05-15 Thread Frank Swarbrick
On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:09:33 -0400, Thompson, Steve steve_thomp...@stercomm.com wrote: Because of past conversions, I think this needs to be said: 1) VSE/ESA got to use XA I/O just like MVS. This means, to the VSE shop, that some slick stuff that got offloaded to the I/O Subsystem (shall we say

Re: VSE I/O Performance VS MVS [was BLOCK CONTAINS]

2009-05-15 Thread O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]
...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 6:20 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: VSE I/O Performance VS MVS [was BLOCK CONTAINS] On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:09:33 -0400, Thompson, Steve steve_thomp...@stercomm.com wrote: Because of past conversions, I think this needs to be said: 1) VSE/ESA got to use XA

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-15 Thread Clark Morris
On 15 May 2009 09:32:23 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Perhaps this explains the observed action? http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IGY3LR31/5.2.4 quote BLOCK CONTAINS 0 can be specified for QSAM files. If BLOCK CONTAINS 0 is specified for a QSAM file

Re: VSE I/O Performance VS MVS [was BLOCK CONTAINS]

2009-05-15 Thread Ed Gould
--- On Fri, 5/15/09, Frank Swarbrick fswarbr...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP-- What does this have to do with anything? Well, the typical throughput performance gains seen in the past when going from VSE to MVS don't happen because what was

BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-14 Thread Frank Swarbrick
I have been a bit of experimenting with z/OS QSAM files from a Cobol program and I find that the manuals don't exactly agree with my results. The manuals seem to imply that if you use the BLOCK CONTAINS clause (whether 0 or something else) then the file has a RECFM of either VB or FB

Re: BLOCK CONTAINS

2009-05-14 Thread Clark Morris
On 14 May 2009 17:05:53 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: I have been a bit of experimenting with z/OS QSAM files from a Cobol program and I find that the manuals don't exactly agree with my results. The manuals seem to imply that if you use the BLOCK CONTAINS clause (whether 0