not. As such C
will frequently be passed over for many of these sorts of projects (at
the very least by C++, but often by Java, C#, and a long list of languages).
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On 6/11/2014 2:28 PM, clay wrote:
Your reasons for preferring C are stability and long term longevity?
Are those factors
With Swift's ARC you have unowned and weak references, which you're
expected to use to resolve such issues.
So the programmer certainly has more responsibility for memory
management -- hopefully with greater speed as a result, else it's just a
universally bad idea.
On 6/5/2014 5:27 AM,
I also assume ARC requires less memory than GC does for decent performance.
GC is maximally easy for the developer, but conversely assumes a certain
wealth of computing resources.
On 6/5/2014 11:51 AM, Kevin Wright wrote:
This one has also been doing the rounds recently:
Thanks for a nice sane post!
I was despairing of seeing any on this thread.
On 2/27/2014 8:31 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote:
Perhaps you don't see a peep in this channel is because any discussion
will instantly devolve into a scala fanboy fest? This post turned into
one halfway throughout
Understood -- though I'd second the request for keeping Roundup in the
title where applicable, as I'm really only interested in listening to
recordings of the regular podcast (though I might like to /attend/ the
Roundup in person some year).
On 2/20/2014 3:13 PM, Carl of the Posse wrote:
Did you try downloading the installer from
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/index.html and
running it manually?
On 10/13/2013 11:01 AM, Zentech Frank wrote:
I've reached out to Oracle and have not received any response or
support, so I thought that I'd try a Java group.
and 3 (though 2 often means #1
occurred some time back when things were looking rosier).
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Of course the good thing is -- once code is formulated in terms of
lambda predicates, switching parallelism engines is a smaller matter.
So if fork-join is full of it, use a different one. Sure, it will take
a bit of a code change to avoid the default parallel streams, but
nothing near what
the least diligent developer.
Whenever I see tabs in a source file I immediately eradicate them --
often letting the IDE reformat the whole file as it's often at a point
that this is really the only way to achieve readability.
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On 1/25/2013 10:30 AM, Kirk Pepperdine wrote:
+1
. At that point you just do a
separate commit for the reformatting and move on.
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While the US is often prone to stubbornly go its own way, I don't
actually see that as a big part of the equation here.
I think this is mostly about most folk in the US being unable to stomach
the thought of changing to some weird new units that they're
unfamiliar with. They live their lives
On 1/23/2013 6:44 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:37:53 +0100, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com wrote:
While the US is often prone to stubbornly go its own way, I don't
actually see that as a big part of the equation here.
I don't comment on the own way, since the important thing
ancient
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesimal), tracing back to the
Sumerians in the 3rd millennium BC! Talk about your ancient, antiquated
hill-billy unit systems.
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The politically correct term might be legacy units, though antiquated,
medieval, pre-industrial, and byzantine all seem more accurate.
I live in the US and am thus stuck with such units -- whatever one calls
them. When in engineering school I found that a decent HP calculator
made crazy
I like the default placement.
The Mapper parameter bit just seems inexplicable, though. Principle of
most surprise?
On 11/14/2012 7:27 PM, Ricky Clarkson wrote:
The rationale was to make default a modifier instead of even more
special syntax than it needs to be.
The parameter order isn't
Two words:
ivory tower
Retrofitting concepts into languages where there's little *real* benefit
serves only to waste resources that could be better spent elsewhere --
and to risk breaking things, e.g. backward compatibility, that do have
real, tangible benefit.
We're in the real world,
Microsoft -- but worse in that with Microsoft you
were always free to produce and market your app in their effective
monopoly space (Windows) whereas Apple doesn't want you to have that
much freedom.
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I too love to gripe about big corporations of all stripes, but...
Just hold your horses just a bit longer here.
On 8/30/2012 12:14 AM, Casper Bang wrote:
Forget about spending a decade debating closures - I'm talking about
patching security holes here! The last couple of years, Java has
Hmm
I guess I'm slow here. I only heard about the latest vulnerability on
8/26 or so. I can't see anything indicating it was widely know prior to
that.
I'm missing where the 4 months comes from on the latest issue.
Some vulnerabilities may have gone 4 months -- but some
Ah...
I'd missed that article.
Yes, that is rather reprehensible!
[I'd assumed the flaw was either newly discovered or hadn't been
privately known that long.]
On 8/30/2012 8:37 AM, Casper Bang wrote:
On Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:26:11 PM UTC+2, JessHolle wrote:
Hmm
I guess
Realistically Jigsaw in no way facilitates removal of long-deprecated code.
At *best* it would allow for deprecated *classes* to be moved to a
separate, optional module. It can't do a thing about deprecated
methods. Removing those would still utterly fragment the Java community.
Personally
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On 8/25/2012 6:09 AM, Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
Since when are laws concerning IP making much sense ? Since when is
the law a synonym for justice ? That must be a long time ago now...
Absurd yes - but it's Legal Absurdity. And therefore, if they don't
comply to The Law, they're criminals
or to close off the
ability to sell Java-based applications for them.
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On 8/25/2012 4:30 AM, Ricky Clarkson wrote:
Oracle case: Can you write a library that provides compatibility with
someone else's library?
Samsung case: Can you copy your competitor's handling of
finger-to-screen
There are issues.
That said, most developers move on and get a lot done without being
overly bothered.
A few just seem to get stuck on every wart -- making mountains out of
mole hills (or warts).
On 7/30/2012 6:11 AM, fabrizio.giud...@tidalwave.it wrote:
I definitely see a lot of
Along these lines I'd really like to know why the core of Jigsaw (a
simple, language-level, integrated module system for developers) cannot
be delivered in Java 8 and the rest of it (modularizing the JVM,
integration with native packaging systems, etc) in Java 9.
On 7/24/2012 3:22 AM, Jan
service wrapper!?!).
Getting a simple all-in-one build-time and runtime module system
integrated into the language, however, is key and /far/ more important.
That piece should come in Java 8 -- without the rest of the less
critical, and thus distracting, stuff.
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? That's only important to allowing the
Java SE codebase to be more readily re-used in other environments -- and
/possibly/ will yield faster startup time (though a good refactoring
could likely do that by itself).
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external Java libraries, etc.
In short, it wouldn't fly for a good number of large Java-based
development organizations.
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community in such an insane fashion (or
never move to a new version of the platform, but that's insane in its
own right).
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On 7/20/2012 2:42 PM, Kevin Wright wrote:
Nothing wrong with a half-baked solution. Something can have definite
value even if it's not complete. But without the ability to evolve
the thing and change APIs under a different version number, it's too
risky to release in such a state.
No module
, then you're left torn
between biting off the complexity of OSGi (it's certainly more complex
than something integrated into the language, compiler, and JVM runtime)
and putting modularity off until Oracle gets around to it someday in the
hazy future (2017 after yet another delay?!?).
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Agreed. A simple, unified, compile-time/runtime/language-level module
system is all I really want from Jigsaw.
Modularizing the JVM and (most silly of all) integrating with
platform-specific deployment tools (e.g. rpm) are really uninteresting
to me. I can see how they're all good things
such, for instance).
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For more
have versioned modules, just in case there
are folk out there who actually still *want* some of that trash...
On 19 July 2012 15:51, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com
mailto:je...@ptc.com wrote:
On 7/19/2012 9:38 AM, Kevin Wright wrote:
The loss of Jigsaw is massive and significant. Having
on their catch-up features, Oracle is once again
snubbing the community.
On 19 July 2012 18:57, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com
mailto:je...@ptc.com wrote:
No, that's not an accurate paraphrase at all. I'll try again:
* Fix and extend the language as appropriate
o Wherever possible
inheritance model.
On 7/19/2012 1:40 PM, Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
Why not just adding new default packages to replace java.lang al ?
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com
mailto:je...@ptc.com wrote:
Tweaking Javadoc and IDE support to hide cruft is simple and
effective
.
In reality Jigsaw is nothing more than a move crufty *classes* into a
separate, optional module solution here. Changes within a class still
require all the same API evolution considerations one had before.
That's life in the real world.
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can move at their own pace, however slow that may be, but it
may also be a fast pace - in which case you'll no longer be held back
by the demands of backward compatibility all the way to java 1.0
On Jul 19, 2012 8:20 PM, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com
mailto:je...@ptc.com wrote:
On 7/19/2012 2:09
to are particularly good
at this sort of challenge, and *this* is the correct use of a decent
tool - instead of simply hiding stuff.
On 19 July 2012 21:13, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com
mailto:je...@ptc.com wrote:
To give some further insight:
The enterprise application I work on has been
. You end up either having to cut
it loose (i.e. not support it) or it drags you down and holds you back.
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P.S. I suspect any bank that moves from Java 1.4.2 in the near future
will move to Java 6 precisely because it is so old and proven at this
point. There are 2 types
), and they're
definitely in the first camp, partly out of fear of not getting
support when they need it.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com
mailto:je...@ptc.com wrote:
Is there any sort of an ETA / target release date for a stable
Java 7 (including Java Plug-In!) for Mac
I believe the loop bug was fixed -- unofficially in Update 1 and
officially in Update 2.
I've noticed a few minor glitches in old UIs run under Java 7, but not
investigated further, as it wasn't until Update 2 that I took Java 7
seriously.
On 1/26/2012 5:26 AM, Steel City Phantom wrote:
.
Sometimes, however, there's a place for a few engineers to write god
code that is nicely tucked away and does what needs to be done and can't
be done as well any way but AOP.
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(e.g. JVM internals).
In general though I distrust and avoid AOP -- until it's really the only
alternative.
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The closest thing I've found to a real-world usage for normal AOP was
temporary debugger-like pointcuts via AspectJ.
By normal I mean via AspectJ, XML, or the like.
Targeted byte-code weaving via ASM is daunting, but truly useful in very
limited cases.
On 12/20/2011 5:28 PM, Kevin Wright
I had even worse issues last year.
I couldn't find anything (apart from places with /really/ scary reviews)
less than $400 or $500 per night. I'd never had such an issue with any
previous Java One, having always managed to stay in the parc 55, francis
drake, or other nice places. Even
The alternative to inheritance is general object composition -- which
allows each of the objects to be strewn all of the heap with respect to
one another.
Inheritance, however, stuffs all the fields into 1 bucket that all moves
together.
Object fields are pointers to elsewhere in the heap
As per the recent This American Life episode, some of the most famous
patent trolling companies spin out shell companies [or sell the patent
to another company working essentially as a subcontractor with a portion
of all patent revenue going to each party] in cases to lessen their own
-nonsensical land grabs of vast conceptual spaces without any
evidence of originality of thought. These should clearly be invalidated.
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it open for more than an hour or so.
Or that if you click on the wrong thing (the dreaded Data tab), you'll
get an OutOfMemoryError as it tries to bring the entirety of the data
table into memory -- without regard for how big the table is or how
little memory you have...
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--
You
incorrect results.
Oracle had 5 days to change the default value of the optimization flag
in question -- and I believe they should have done just that. If I
wanted a JVM where I had to flip a bunch of knobs just to get it to run
correctly I'd use IBM's JVM.
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[1
I really don't like that Oracle knew about this and released anyway
(even if it were only hours prior to the release) -- without making
-XX:-UseLoopPredicate
the default.
It's better not to release on time than to release something that
customers don't trust.
Having to add JVM options
Javadoc does seem really hard to make any reasonable use of without
search for anything of size.
A nice integration with Lucene/Solr would seem to be in order...
On 6/21/2011 8:53 PM, phil swenson wrote:
where's my search? ;)
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Steven
Hmm...
No user benefits like greatly improved JVM performance between 1.4.2 and
1.6?
On 5/30/2011 10:24 PM, Steven Herod wrote:
The opposition to moving beyond 1.4.x would be mainly the cost.
You have a working application which is stable, you are expending
minimal effort maintaining, and
-like stuff
that I really had to work hard to mentally parse in large part because
different things were so similar in syntax it took a lot of effort to
figure out which one was being done by a particular chunk of code.
Also := is a really annoying assignment operator...
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--
You
if it was. Even so, I don't see
why a half-baked, unfinished project that's been languishing for 2 years
should jump ahead of Scala.
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On 4/13/2011 9:55 AM, Joseph Ottinger wrote:
2011/4/13 Cédric Beust ♔ced...@beust.com:
Another thing that puzzles me about Ceylon is the timing: Gavin
as in
Titanic. While the chip contained many interesting technologies, the
whole added up to something that even the best compilers seemed to get
very little real value from.
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Google missed an opportunity -- they should have bought the rights to
call it the Dalek virtual machine (ala Doctor Who) :-)
On 2/14/2011 1:03 PM, mezmo wrote:
I stand corrected.
Thanks!
On Feb 14, 10:52 am, Cédric Beust ♔ced...@beust.com wrote:
It's Dalvik, by the way (a small village in
This is simple: Apple figures that 1 of the 2 options is true. If 1,
then they should kill it. If 2, then they shouldn't waste money on it.
I don't see how Apple sees an upside to spending any money supporting
Java on the Mac -- given that they want everything other than native,
Realistically, I think serious Java developers who use Macs are going to
have to dual-boot into Windows or Linux -- at least if they're doing
anything that's not strictly server-side.
That's what every Mac owner wanted anyway, a really cute machine running
Linux, right? :-|
On 10/27/2010
products nor for as the foundation of large,
mission-critical apps.
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On 10/24/2010 11:43 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote:
On 10/24/2010 04:17 AM, hugh4life wrote:
On Oct 23, 6:48 pm, Miroslav Pokornymiroslav.poko...@gmail.com
wrote:
Funny a multi billion company like Microsoft cant afford
The Mac is becoming nothing but a big iPhone (without the phone or touch
capabilities) for your desk. It's no longer a general computing
platform -- it's becoming just another form factor for an utterly closed
consumer device with a walled garden market.
I don't think Apple wants Java on it
was in a financial bind for the last few years
-- that would have been an honest answer to the plea for such assertions
in Swing. It clearly must be done and must be done by the Swing team,
though.
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My read on this answer was that you'd be best finding something else
to spend your time on until around March/April 2011 -- at which point FX
/may /be worth revisiting in an early access capacity.
If that's at the top of your to-do list, then that's a pickle :-)
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On 9/23/2010
Sun? Who/where's Sun? There is no such creature now :-)
On 9/22/2010 8:32 AM, Miroslav Pokorny wrote:
By killing off JavaFX script this must be the first time Sun has ever
made some source code of today uncompilable in the future.
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on no
worse ground than SWT.
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I thought it was supposed to be like Scala's case classes, but the
info was actually quite sparse as to what these were.
On 9/20/2010 10:43 PM, Serge Boulay wrote:
and also here. I thought it might be properties until I saw that
explicitly listed too.
They also introduced the concept of
book). The rest of the Eclipse RCP might be nice -- but it's
contaminated by SWT for those who want no part of SWT.
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On 9/20/2010 3:29 PM, Cédric Beust ♔ wrote:
I think that all this move is going to accomplish is to push even more
developers toward SWT/JFace/Eclipse RCP
end up looking more like dozens of totally different languages.
I don't have anything against Ruby as compared to other languages with
these same issues -- but I consider both of these to be big issues.
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On 9/15/2010 8:30 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter wrote:
You may be right
.
On 9/15/2010 9:34 AM, Jess Holle wrote:
Existence outside the JVM is one possible dimension to the reluctance
to use Ruby. For me the bigger issues with Ruby are:
1. The inability to do static typing
* An ability to easily do dynamic typing where you want is
one thing
are Windows users that have just
been sucked into the platform by circumstance, I really don't see
native widgets as compelling for many apps. Something clear and
reasonable is more than sufficient for me. Anything more is pretty --
but pretty meaningless -- eye candy.
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looks natural to...
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are either not a small minority or are sufficiently
vocal to upset the rest of the community, then I believe they'll adjust
their approach (as little as they feel they can get away with, of course).
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On 8/31/2010 6:13 AM, Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
What about a little patience to see
On 8/31/2010 6:52 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 8/31/10 13:28 , Jess Holle wrote:
What about heavy pressure on Oracle via all possible venues so
that they feel they need to establish a different tone in their
JavaOne keynote?
I don't think
? No, but
it beats having java.util and java.util2!
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with such an approach could ostensibly
still add it to Java N, though.
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Java like this is a *big* proposition though, as it would
effectively require a breaking change in the language spec,
sacrificing backwards compatibility. Allowing both declaration-site
and call-site variance would be hideously complicated!
On 31 August 2010 19:38, Jess Holle je...@ptc.com
a
pronounced lack of direction from Sun, but Java 5 was certainly not
irrelevant, for instance.
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. [Charging an arm-and-a-leg for long-in-the-tooth Java ME
technology didn't really leave Google much choice.]
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Sun essentially forced Google to either (1) take the path they did or
(2) go another way entirely than Java by the combination of high pricing
and lack of recent innovation on Java ME.
I think Oracle should be rejoicing that Google took path #1 -- and
trying to build bridges to make Android
I suspect Oracle/Sun wants to mandate shipment of JavaFX with every
Android device or some such.
Clearly the platform is open enough that no one is stopping them for
shipping JavaFX for it.
On 8/13/2010 8:21 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote:
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On
as a don't you dare notice from Oracle.
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On 8/13/2010 9:01 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 8/13/10 15:52 , Jess Holle wrote:
I also think this is a broader shot across the bow for anyone who
tries to ship something JVM-like without using an Oracle JVM,
paying Oracle licensing, or basing
bad apples to produce an utterly bad result. Thus
in the real world with multiple real world programmers working on the
code any use of tabs becomes intolerable.
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On 7/1/2010 8:03 AM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote:
In regards to the 'you can't mix and match' rule 3: Actually
of this. It finds
types all but instantaneously. NetBeans thinks for quite some time in
many cases.
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One of my pet peeves is that aspects of auto-completion do not obey your
formatting rules...
On 6/25/2010 5:36 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot wrote:
What Wayne said - you can change the template in the settings. But few
people do this, unfortunately. A setting should be set out-of-the-box
to the most
?]
Setting your own projects up to build with Maven is a separate learning
curve and investment, though.
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On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 10:38, Peter Beckerpeter.becker...@gmail.com wrote:
Maven might feel too complex or too limiting when you come from Ant, but
once you see the tool
Quality of software cannot be overrated.
The utility of unit tests towards this end is often overrated, though.
The interesting/nasty things happen when you put the units together.
Testing the units (e.g. and mocking out the others) is over-emphasized
as compared to testing that
not like, it's got to be what's
worth the time and effort for the guys who are actually doing all the
work. It's got to be fun for you -- it's just that this *part* of the
podcast has become less than fun for me.
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the question of pricing.
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not a fan-boy for these either). I just don't think Oracle
will pull this off.
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. Android supports recent Java language
features whereas ME does not). It fully deserves deep coverage as it is
actually something one can deploy Java software to (albeit after a
recompile).
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On 6/15/2010 8:36 AM, Rakesh wrote:
The dilemma, as I see it, is that how can you talk
I have no complaint with more focus on Scala and Android.
The iPhone (1) doesn't allow anything like Java to even approach it and
(2) [as I and many others I know see it] is an Orwellian scenario from a
development marketplace perspective -- it's an attempt to lock
developers into a
Perhaps with enough loud developer moves like that noted in
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20004869-264.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0
Apple will get the message that developers do not appreciate having
their innovation stifled.
On 5/11/2010 7:22 AM, Jess Holle wrote:
On 5/11/2010 6:44
Java within Oracle is a different beast than what you're used to in some
ways.
For instance, as I recall the classloaders are isolated to a transaction
and so any classes used are reloaded in each transaction, which can
really kill performance if you have a lot of classes to load to
control until he
feels a screaming /need/ to do so. Given the indirect relationship
between developer (franchisee) rights and overall iPhone/iPad success,
I'm not sure if/when he'll feel this need.
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Jess Holle
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standpoint. Apple's clear willingness to dictate /how/ an
application is developed stifles the diversity and innovation that would
otherwise naturally be present.
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Jess Holle
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, but the Tomcat patch is
clearly more robust than that in the Sun/Oracle bug comments.
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Jess Holle
On 4/26/2010 7:51 PM, James Ward wrote:
I just ran into this a few weeks ago. Here is the associated Tomcat bug with a
patch:
https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=48738
-James
it is invoked at the tail end of the output it adds that extra
null byte and wreaks havoc. If you ran into this latter problem and
your changes resolved the problem, then I'll have to look at your patch
more closely.
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Jess Holle
On 4/26/2010 7:51 PM, James Ward wrote:
I just ran into this a few weeks
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