What an enormously long and interesting thread!
Thanks for the sub-thread on using Leo for plain ol' writing. It rings true
for me. Leo doesn't leverage much of my prior muscle memory, and that leads
me away from it, and once away it takes awhile to return. This is still
true even though I've
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Matt Wilkie map...@gmail.com wrote:
Consequently I spend a lot of in-Leo time in a state of confusion, often
unsure whether I'm trying to learn programming or python or Leo or more
about the actual problem I'm started out trying to solve this morning. :)
an
Just my 2 cents worth:
I wish I could right-click on any @url (or such) or @path thing in Leo and
would have an option to open up the enclosing directory of the target in
the file manager of my choice.
This would make it easier to mix it with other tools.
- Josef
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On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 07:07:54 -0700 (PDT)
Josef joe...@gmx.net wrote:
Just my 2 cents worth:
I wish I could right-click on any @url (or such) or @path thing in Leo and
would have an option to open up the enclosing directory of the target in
the file manager of my choice.
This would make it
The ideal solution would be to develop Leo's file handling capabilities.
Currently we can't even rename a file.
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Josef joe...@gmx.net wrote:
Just my 2 cents worth:
I wish I could right-click on any @url (or such) or @path thing in Leo and
would have an option
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 12:48 PM, dufriz duf...@gmail.com wrote:
The ideal solution would be to develop Leo's file handling capabilities.
Currently we can't even rename a file.
Not sure what you mean by this. os.rename is always available, as are the
save-as and save-to commands. Changing
On 10/4/2013 4:33 PM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
Changing any @file node effectively renames it.
Actually, it copies it to a file with a new name.
os.rename might do the trick though.
--Jake
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On Friday, 4 October 2013 22:33:43 UTC+2, Edward K. Ream wrote:
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 12:48 PM, dufriz duf...@gmail.com javascript:wrote:
The ideal solution would be to develop Leo's file handling capabilities.
Currently we can't even rename a file.
Not sure what you mean by this.
Am Montag, 30. September 2013 17:31:42 UTC+2 schrieb Terry:
I think a lot of the problem is defining what Leo is.
To me, it's to directed acyclic graphs what MS Excel is to tables.
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On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:44 PM, gatesphere gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/1/2013 10:15 PM, Seth Johnson wrote:
This e-book has a whole sub-heading on using Leo for Joomla:
http://www.gandsnut.net/**downloads/Beginning_Joomla!_**
On Tuesday, October 1, 2013 11:17:17 AM UTC-5, dufriz wrote:
As a newbie who still has zero knowledge of Leo's technical details, I can
say: I have absolutely no problem in conceptualizing what Leo is and what
it can do, and probably I also get the Leo's aha -- the difficulty is in
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:
Leo is primarily a tool aimed at python, at the moment, as Leo is written
in it, and it's internal scripting support only works with python
Actually, g.getScript is language neutral. To execute, say, a java
program from
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 6:32 AM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:
To execute, say, a java program from a Leo outline, create @command
run-java-script node that does roughly the following::
1. Compose (gather) the script using::
script = g.getScript(c, p,
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:
When I say Learn Leo, I don't mean Learn or understand the code, I mean
learn what you can do with it.
..
My (again, personal) feeling is that the current policy right now is: Let
him read the code to understand how it
Edward K. Ream wrote:
Maybe, but there is a tantalizing possibility. I prototyped Leo in
about two hours, using the MORE outliner as a prototype, and inventing
@others in the process. (I was already deeply involved with sections
and section references.)
Gee, what I'd give for an
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Kent Tenney kten...@gmail.com wrote:
A tool which does everything doesn't grab me, I don't need to do
everything.
A tool which, in it's few moments of my attention, describes a better way
to do something I need, gets additional moments. If the tool
On 10/1/2013 9:50 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
To execute, say, a java program from a Leo outline
Out of curiosity, are there any leo-to-other-languages bridges out there?
Better yet, is there a RESTful API that Leo can expose to get at the
nodes/commanders/globals? I can see this being a huge
) to why leo isn't more popular leap out at you.
The answer is not so clear cut.
Consider the first item returned by Google for the search emacs
tutorial:
http://www2.lib.uchicago.edu/keith/tcl-course/emacs-tutorial.html
This is hardly a breathtaking introduction to emacs. It would not *by
itself
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
I came to Leo because it is the only outliner for Linux that supports
cloning that doesn't require an internet connection.
I am struggling to implement it into my workflow though, simply because I
do not have time to
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
I am curious why I couldn't get a match when I searched for the
myLeoSettings.leo file name in the documentation.
Unless you have the
Wrap Around checkbox checked, searches only go from the presently
selected node to
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Ludwig Schwardt
ludwig.schwa...@gmail.comwrote:
Miles's comments inspired me to do something about the Homebrew version of
Leo. Instead of following a long-winded and increasingly out-of-date set of
installation instructions you will soon be able to go (if all
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:
maybe we should keep track of where users get referred to Leo from? Just
so that we can get an idea of where to 'market' better.
Good idea. I've just made this note to myself re asking for postcards on
Leo's home page:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:
If you know of third-party mentions about Leo, please let me know, and
feel free to add them to the talk page.
I never realized how few third-party mentions of Leo there are. To the
first approximation, Google
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/1/2013 9:50 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
To execute, say, a java program from a Leo outline
Out of curiosity, are there any leo-to-other-languages bridges out there?
There is a Tk bridge. You can execute Tk scripts
On 10/1/2013 11:39 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com
mailto:edream...@gmail.com wrote:
If you know of third-party mentions about Leo, please let me know,
and feel free to add them to the talk page.
I never realized how few
I never realized how few third-party mentions of Leo there are. To the
first approximation, Google returns *nothing* about Leo that doesn't appear
on Leo's various web sites. No wonder people are dubious about Leo!
That is also because many of the Google results point to people whose name
is
Maybe, but there is a tantalizing possibility. I prototyped Leo
in about two hours, using the MORE outliner as a prototype,
and inventing @others in the process. (I was already deeply
involved with sections and section references.)
As a newbie who still has zero knowledge of Leo's technical
On Tue, 1 Oct 2013 09:48:28 -0500
Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
I am curious why I couldn't get a match when I searched for the
myLeoSettings.leo file name in the documentation.
Unless you have the
This e-book has a whole sub-heading on using Leo for Joomla:
http://www.gandsnut.net/downloads/Beginning_Joomla!_From_Novice_to_Professional.pdf
Seth
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com
On 10/1/2013 10:15 PM, Seth Johnson wrote:
This e-book has a whole sub-heading on using Leo for Joomla:
http://www.gandsnut.net/downloads/Beginning_Joomla!_From_Novice_to_Professional.pdf
Seth
Huh, Leo made it into a book!
It is a user who wrote it, *but* they are a published party who
IMO the biggest problem is that it takes too much time to learn Leo
As a newbie, I agree. At least, that is the perception, which is
discouraging.
I believe it also has to do with the lack of learning material.
The only manual is not very newbie-friendly. It contains a lot of
cross-references
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:20 AM, duf...@gmail.com wrote:
Why can't we have some more accessible tutorial, with gentle, self
contained lessons (maybe webcasts, or slides, or simple HTML pages) which
_focus on the basic functionality_?
Because it's a lot harder than you might imagine. I've
Another point that I wanted to make is this: Leo is commonly advertised as
a programming editor, but it should be made more clear that it is more than
that.
I believe you would attract more users if you also mentioned its usefulness
for general-purpose editing and PIM functionality. Of course,
On 9/30/2013 10:52 AM, duf...@gmail.com wrote:
Another point that I wanted to make is this: Leo is commonly
advertised as a programming editor, but it should be made more clear
that it is more than that.
I believe you would attract more users if you also mentioned its
usefulness for
Agreed. In fact, the PIM aspect was what initially led me to Leo.
Wikipedia pointed me in Leo's direction while searching for some good
open-source PIM tools. I tried Chandler but it didn't do what I
wanted. Leo did.
For me, the trajectory was KeyNote -- MyBase --
On Monday, 30 September 2013 16:02:19 UTC+1, duf...@gmail.com wrote:
For me, the trajectory was KeyNote -- MyBase -- NotecasePro/RightNote
-- Leo (!!)
Leo is the best, because it is fully customizable, and gives you seemingly
infinite power.
Only, it takes a lot to learn how to use
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet: Leo has pretty much
written off Mac users, and close to written off large chunks of Linux users.
Sure, you CAN install and get it to work on Macs and Debian/Ubuntu (and
presumably other linux varieties). But... it's pretty hard to justify
the
Consider that Leo is actively developed, and has a responsive community.
When I requested the support for Rich Text, a couple of months ago, it was
promptly implemented in a matter of days.
As for the power, of course Leo can do whatever other PIMs can do, because
it is extensible by Python.
On Monday, 30 September 2013 17:26:37 UTC+2, Miles Fidelman wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet: Leo has pretty much
written off Mac users, and close to written off large chunks of Linux
users.
Sure, you CAN install and get it to work on Macs and Debian/Ubuntu (and
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:39:06 -0500
Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:20 AM, duf...@gmail.com wrote:
Why can't we have some more accessible tutorial, with gentle, self
contained lessons (maybe webcasts, or slides, or simple HTML pages) which
_focus on the
If your looking for an *environment* which includes a good editor and
outliner and is completely scriptable / interactive / live-code in
Python, then Leo wins hands down.
Absolutely!! But why play down its PIM potential? It never hets mentioned...
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page, but on the list of text editors it's listed, but
there's no information about o/s support or features.
For marketing, packaging, features, documentation, tutorials,
extensions,... - do a side by side comparison of Vim and Leo - and the
answer(s) to why leo isn't more popular leap out
by side comparison of Vim and Leo - and the
answer(s) to why leo isn't more popular leap out at you.
Of course, vim and emacs have much larger communities.
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:26:37 -0400
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet: Leo has pretty much
written off Mac users, and close to written off large chunks of Linux users.
Interesting, I know there's issues with Mac., which I think are
, features, documentation, tutorials,
extensions,... - do a side by side comparison of Vim and Leo - and the
answer(s) to why leo isn't more popular leap out at you.
Miles Fidelman
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In practice, there is. Yogi Berra
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On 9/30/2013 12:31 PM, Chris George wrote:
Support for standard word-processing keys are important for writers.
Agreed.
I use Leo to author markdown and ConTeXt, and such keybindings would be
helpful. I've trained myself for years to write in plaintext anyways,
so this isn't a breaking
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:31:25 -0700
Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
I need basic text formatting at the standard hot key level. ie. Ctrl-B for
bold, Ctrl-I for italic etc. while in the edit window.
[...]
I don't
need WSIWYG, RST markup works fine as it gives me lots of output
Hi Terry,
Almost. That plus the ability to be writing along and hit Ctrl-b s u d d e
n l y Ctrl-b and continue on.
I had Leo working to the extent that I could type suddenly Ctrl-Alt-b and
have it retroactively add the markup but it was simply too much of a leap
to change my work habits. Body
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:55:04 -0700
Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Terry,
Almost. That plus the ability to be writing along and hit Ctrl-b s u d d e
n l y Ctrl-b and continue on.
Which boils down to Ctrl-b inserting '*' if there's no selection?
Cheers -Terry
I had Leo working
Terry Brown wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:26:37 -0400
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet: Leo has pretty much
written off Mac users, and close to written off large chunks of Linux users.
Interesting, I know there's issues with Mac.,
Hi Terry,
I guess it does.
It may seem silly, as I could just type the *, but Shift-8 isn't baked into
muscle memory, Ctrl-b is.
It boils down to being able to replicate those standard word processing
shortcuts in the edit pane and having them not conflict with other key
combos in Leo.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:51:08 -0500
Terry Brown terry_n_br...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Terry,
I guess it does.
It may seem silly, as I could just type the *, but Shift-8 isn't baked into
muscle memory,
Hi Terry,
I am now running rev. 6082. I have downloaded the ctrl_b_i_u.py file.
Now what?
Chris
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Terry Brown terry_n_br...@yahoo.comwrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:51:08 -0500
Terry Brown terry_n_br...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:38:36 -0700
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:05:23 -0700
Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Terry,
I am now running rev. 6082. I have downloaded the ctrl_b_i_u.py file.
Now what?
In you myLeoSettings.leo file, under @settings--@keys--@shortcuts,
add the shrotcuts (in the body text of the '@shortcuts'
Hi Terry,
I am probably about to appear very stupid, but myLeoSettings.leo does not
exist on my computer. And myLeoSettings.leo does not appear in any of the
Leo documentation or at least none that is searchable from the website
search box.
I searched using all caps, all lowercase and the
So I searched settings on the documentation, created the
myLeoSettings.leo file in the .leo directory in my home, I opened the
ctrl_b_i_u.py file which created a node for itself, saved the file and I am
at the point where I am executing the script.
exception executing script
File
On 9/30/2013 4:10 PM, Chris George wrote:
!DOCTYPE html
Looks like you saved the github prittified version of the file.
Save this instead:
https://raw.github.com/leo-editor/snippets/master/ctrl_b_i_u.py
(Don't worry, common mistake!)
--Jake
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Hi Jake,
Thanks. It works fine now.
Now I can use Leo as a word processor! With a cloning outliner!
Chris
On Monday, September 30, 2013 1:13:03 PM UTC-7, Jacob Peck wrote:
On 9/30/2013 4:10 PM, Chris George wrote:
!DOCTYPE html
Looks like you saved the github prittified version of
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:13:03 -0400
Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/30/2013 4:10 PM, Chris George wrote:
!DOCTYPE html
Looks like you saved the github prittified version of the file.
Save this instead:
https://raw.github.com/leo-editor/snippets/master/ctrl_b_i_u.py
Yes,
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 12:43:57 -0700 (PDT)
Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Terry,
I am probably about to appear very stupid, but myLeoSettings.leo does not
exist on my computer. And myLeoSettings.leo does not appear in any of the
Leo documentation or at least none that is
Terry,
How difficult would a plugin be?
I would like to start putting together everything that it would take to
make Leo the default choice for writers on Linux. If it works for me, it'll
work for many others.
Chris
On Monday, September 30, 2013 1:45:19 PM UTC-7, Terry wrote:
On Mon, 30
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
Chris George technat...@gmail.com wrote:
Terry,
How difficult would a plugin be?
Easy enough I guess, included in revision 6083, just pushed.
So, completely forget all previous instructions, particularly the bits
about getting code from github and
Hi Terry,
That works great. Thanks for doing this for me. Now I can spend time being
productive and learning Leo at the same time.
Chris
On Monday, September 30, 2013 2:22:15 PM UTC-7, Terry wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 13:51:06 -0700 (PDT)
Chris George techn...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net
wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet: Leo has pretty much written
off Mac users, and close to written off large chunks of Linux users.
I agree, Leo would benefit greatly from a smoother Linux install.
Hi,
Miles's comments inspired me to do something about the Homebrew version of
Leo. Instead of following a long-winded and increasingly out-of-date set of
installation instructions you will soon be able to go (if all goes well!):
brew install leo
I've created a rough formula for Leo and
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:
With bread crumbs I refer to the tool I am about to finish within the
next two or three weeks, the interactive tutorial creator I have talked so
much about.
Fidel, I'd like to encourage you to release as early as you can.
Thats very encouraging Edward!
Today I finally got to the working-testing phase, as soon as it does the
intended basics I'll release, looks like half way next week at most =)
On Saturday, September 28, 2013 2:17:28 PM UTC+2, Edward K. Ream wrote:
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Fidel N
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:
Thats very encouraging Edward!
Today I finally got to the working-testing phase, as soon as it does the
intended basics I'll release, looks like half way next week at most =)
Excellent!
EKR
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Imo, the answer is simple: resistance to change. Programmers have a lot
invested in their tools. To be worth serious consideration, Leo must offer
something much better. Furthermore, most programmers likely see moving to
Leo as risky. Using Emacs or vim will seem like a much safer choice.
IMO the biggest problem is that it takes too much time to learn Leo.
When I say Learn Leo, I don't mean Learn or understand the code, I mean
learn what you can do with it.
My true feeling is that Leo is like an infinite ground, where amazing
things can be built. Some of Leo users are already
I second everything Fidel mentioned, but I have a slightly different
view on why people are hesitant to try Leo:
Leo represents a completely new paradigm for editing, programming, and
interacting with data. Well, not completely new, but for many the
surface level seems extremely foreign.
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:
IMO the biggest problem is that it takes too much time to learn Leo.
A convincing post, and a hopeful one. Hopeful, because we can do
something about teaching people about Leo; we may not be able to do much
about overcoming
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:
IMO the biggest problem is that it takes too much time to learn Leo.
A convincing post, and a hopeful one. Hopeful, because we can do something
Glad that was helpful.
With bread crumbs I refer to the tool I am about to finish within the
next two or three weeks, the interactive tutorial creator I have talked so
much about.
My aim with this tool is that anything you do, instantly becomes a
tutorial, that can be done again and played
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:
My aim with this tool is that anything you do, instantly becomes a
tutorial, that can be done again and played forward and backwards.
Basically, your actions become an outline, and other users can play them
again. This
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