Re: PIMB THC-shirts
> Water pipes/bongs are actually worse than joints for avoiding nasty stuff in > the smoke: THC is more soluble in the water than tar so you end up reducing So do people smoke the stuff (as opposed to consumption) for convenience or maybe the familiarity of the ritual of smoking?
Re: thoth
Mark Rogaski wrote: > An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > : > : Mail me privately for a URL of a working thoth installation. > > That would be c.l.p.m ... unless of course you aren't > referring to Tom. I think he doesn't use that appellation any more. BICBW. Cheers, Philip
Re: thoth
An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : : Mail me privately for a URL of a working thoth installation. : That would be c.l.p.m ... unless of course you aren't referring to Tom. Mark -- Mark Rogaski | "What in the ding-dong-heckama-doodle [EMAIL PROTECTED] | hell is that?" http://www.pobox.com/~wendigo | -- a farmer in the 1992 __END__ | movie "Seedpeople" PGP signature
techmeet aftermath
Thanks to all for visiting our humble factory. I hope you all enjoyed it as much as I. We have gained a set of whiteboard pens, and a pile of andy wardley's notes. Any takers? The slight downside was a brief invasion by a unshaven fellow clutching a can of tennants extra. He asked if he could watch andy wardley talk for a while (well, he didn't actually know his name afaik), but after a few minutes I asked him to leave as he was looking around our office in a worrying way. I'm pretty sure he didn't pick up anything before I noticed him there though... Err, apologies if that person was actually a perl monger... Anyway, Paul and Philip (the hosts) where very impressed with the enthusiastic atmosphere, and would be happy for london.pm to come by again. A couple of references for my (rather sketchy) talk... http://slub.org/ - a generative music collaboration between ade ward and myself http://generative.net/ - various things, including a discussion of Data Beautification with MIDI::Realtime http://sound-hack.org/ - various things http://sound-hack.org/MIDI/Realtime.pm - better version than CPAN (sorry) I am happy to discuss this stuff in greater detail off-list, or in the generative art mailing list 'eu-gene' at generative.net. Best, Alex
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
From: "Benjamin Holzman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Or perhaps "even more elite than 31337". 31337++ (Read: "leet plus plus") :-) Paul
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:06:29PM +, Robin Houston wrote:
> TERRORISTS.NET.IS.SO.FUCKING.31338.NET
>
> I like 31338.net - as thought 31337.net had already gone,
> so they just went for the next one up.
Or perhaps "even more elite than 31337".
--
Benjamin HolzmanECNvantage Corp.
Chief Technical Officer 295 Park Avenue S., Suite 7C
(212) 358-0436 : [EMAIL PROTECTED] New York, NY, 10010
$ perl -le 'print join $" ,reverse map ucfirst ,qw{ hacker perl another just}'
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Robin Szemeti wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, you wrote: > > > Having something to crash on when pulling an all-nighter is, IMO, a bad > > idea as it encourages pulling all-nighters. You just don't write good > > code at 2 in the morning, and end up spending just as much time untangling > > it as you did writing it in the first place. > > yes and no. If you need to do an allnighter and its unavoidable (due to a > client suddenly changing ther mind) then theres no problem doing it .. > just charge em bigtime! > > Personally I have done (thinks) about 4 this year ... two of them due to > sudden arrival of previously unannounced deadline .. (result: badly > implemented crap code, stress, huge costs and a re write a week later) > and 2 because I was just so tied up in it and it was going so well that I > didn;t want to stop .. so I didn't ... the code from the latter is > untouched to date and some of the better code I've written. > > There is nothing wrong per-se with working on into the night ... the lack > of interruption and no pesky phones ringing can be the ideal time to > engross yourself in the trickiest and most complex of problems ... but > trying to hack something together whilst knackered is a recipie for > disaster. My motto: if it feels good, do it. Code when you feel at your > most productive, if you don;t think your minds on the job bale out and > play. One of the reason I hated a 9 to 5 job was people asking me to do > hard things before lunchtime and having to quit doing hard things because > it was 5:00. > > > And in any case, if you > > *need* to work all night, there's something wrong with the project > > management. > > no matter how well planned the project I have yet to find a client who > hasn;t kept some small but deadly surprise as a secret to throw in just > when they know its getting close. Some of these bombshells are smaller > than others .. but they always seem to be there, waiting ... no problem > .. just expect em an be prepared .. and charge em BigTime :) Have you done much stuff under a DSDM style - ie. qrite a quick protype and then iterate on that ? (massive internal rewrites are allowed under this as it tries to stress the interface / functionality not the internal implentation) Greg > > I would be VERY interrested in working on a project managed by the XP > method. It sounds to good to be true, (and I;ve done enough project > managment to know that it probably is too good to be true) but I shure > would like to give it a go. > > -- > Robin Szemeti > > The box said "requires windows 95 or better" > So I installed Linux!
Re: RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:11:23PM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote: > From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Yeah, it's always amazed me just how crap the north American power system > > seems to be. Even in cities. > > This is a different issue, http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/power.crisis/ I know :-) Although actually, I feel it is at least a bit related. It seems that CA tried to copy the de-regulation which was implemented in various parts of Europe (including the UK) but that they decided to tamper with a system which demonstrably worked (if it ain't broke don't fix it!), but worse, they tried to shoe-horn it into a completely different environment. The UK has for many years had a fair amount of spare generating capacity, and there are new power stations being built. CA did not have any spare generating capacity of note, and has not built any new power stations. Duh. > The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables, > vicious weather and earthquakes. And the UK doesn't have high water tables (in some places and not in others, just like anywhere else) or vicious weather (again, in some places not in others, just like anywhere else). But it strikes me as being absurd that I hear EVERY YEAR of the power going out for large areas of major cities in .us, something which just doesn't happen in Europe. > The smart money goes on hosting in Texas > (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively > earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free! > > On the upside, the US doesn't have BT "engineers" to deal with... Nah, you just have their cousins in the baby bells :-) Actually, I've had no problems with BT engineers in the three years I've lived here. My voice line came in just fine and has never stopped working. Same with the ISDN, and the ADSL line. Telewest, on the other hand - I wouldn't trust them to run the hundred yard dash, let alone my comms. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, you wrote: > Having something to crash on when pulling an all-nighter is, IMO, a bad > idea as it encourages pulling all-nighters. You just don't write good > code at 2 in the morning, and end up spending just as much time untangling > it as you did writing it in the first place. yes and no. If you need to do an allnighter and its unavoidable (due to a client suddenly changing ther mind) then theres no problem doing it .. just charge em bigtime! Personally I have done (thinks) about 4 this year ... two of them due to sudden arrival of previously unannounced deadline .. (result: badly implemented crap code, stress, huge costs and a re write a week later) and 2 because I was just so tied up in it and it was going so well that I didn;t want to stop .. so I didn't ... the code from the latter is untouched to date and some of the better code I've written. There is nothing wrong per-se with working on into the night ... the lack of interruption and no pesky phones ringing can be the ideal time to engross yourself in the trickiest and most complex of problems ... but trying to hack something together whilst knackered is a recipie for disaster. My motto: if it feels good, do it. Code when you feel at your most productive, if you don;t think your minds on the job bale out and play. One of the reason I hated a 9 to 5 job was people asking me to do hard things before lunchtime and having to quit doing hard things because it was 5:00. > And in any case, if you > *need* to work all night, there's something wrong with the project > management. no matter how well planned the project I have yet to find a client who hasn;t kept some small but deadly surprise as a secret to throw in just when they know its getting close. Some of these bombshells are smaller than others .. but they always seem to be there, waiting ... no problem .. just expect em an be prepared .. and charge em BigTime :) I would be VERY interrested in working on a project managed by the XP method. It sounds to good to be true, (and I;ve done enough project managment to know that it probably is too good to be true) but I shure would like to give it a go. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > "Paul Makepeace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables, > > vicious weather and earthquakes. The smart money goes on hosting in Texas > > (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively > > earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free! > > You're talking rackspace.com, I take it? ;-) Are they not in New York ? Dellhost are in texas - which I destest due to its attitude to capital P. > > > > > On the upside, the US doesn't have BT "engineers" to deal with... > > Trust me, they have much, much worse... What like americans ? (present american company excluded) Greg > > -- > Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org > Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com > Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire > -
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
David Cantrell wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:51:18PM +, Greg Cope wrote: > > > What about a bed / kip room and of course a play room - and I do not > > mean some 70's swingers thing - a P2, etc ... > > Having something to crash on when pulling an all-nighter is, IMO, a bad > idea as it encourages pulling all-nighters. You just don't write good > code at 2 in the morning, and end up spending just as much time untangling > it as you did writing it in the first place. And in any case, if you > *need* to work all night, there's something wrong with the project > management. Oh yeah, we'd need to have project management skillz in the > group too. No need for a whole project mangler though to start with. I was thinking of my mid afternoon kip, before going down stairs to the pub! I was only joking ;-) Totaly agree with the all nighter bit above. > > As for toys - if they're not the *useful* sort of toy then they should be > rewards*, as opposed to being there right from the start. That way they > become a motivational tool. Although to be honest, I wouldn't be motivated > by lots of the things numija companies think are motivating like PS2s. > I'd be more for getting a bigger monitor on my workstation, or a punchbag > for the office. Or some clean jerrycans :-) > > * - eg, when the first big fat cheque arrives from a happy client, get > a PS 2. When we hit milestones *on time* in the next project, get another > game for it. Ah, now motivational thoery is totally different - a PS2 is not that motivational for me, and I would imaging alot of people. What _is_ probably motivational about a PS2 equiped office is the environment that allows you to play with a PS2. IMHO developers should be given the environment that is what makes them confotable, an IBM research center was on the telly the other day that had a big open plan style area, as well as individaul offices, as well as Lego. The environment was totally focused to nuturing developers so that they create (hopefully good, bug-free(TM) code). What people seem to be missing is that you need clients - once you've got some doing the code is the easy bit. Greg > > -- > David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ > >Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
"Paul Makepeace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables, > vicious weather and earthquakes. The smart money goes on hosting in Texas > (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively > earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free! You're talking rackspace.com, I take it? ;-) > > On the upside, the US doesn't have BT "engineers" to deal with... Trust me, they have much, much worse... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Is a million considered a lot in the UK still? > > Not by people who can add up. OK, same here then. Having said that, it's amazing how much people can stretch a few $currency_unit if they *don't* have investment :-) > > But then so's a 24hr stretch of uninterrupted electricity > > Yeah, it's always amazed me just how crap the north American power system > seems to be. Even in cities. This is a different issue, http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/power.crisis/ The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables, vicious weather and earthquakes. The smart money goes on hosting in Texas (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free! On the upside, the US doesn't have BT "engineers" to deal with... Paul
thoth
For the benefit of those who want to know more about thoth, the network monitoring system I mentioned just now: ftp://firedrake.org/thoth/ http://firedrake.org/thoth/ (there's even some documentation!) [EMAIL PROTECTED] with subject subscribe to join the development mailing list, current rather quiet... Mail me privately for a URL of a working thoth installation. Roger
Re: RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 09:51:25AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote: > Is a million considered a lot in the UK still? Not by people who can add up. One million will pay for ten average peoples' salaries etc plus overheads - like an office, stationery, power, heat, comms, computers, insurance - for ONE YEAR assuming no profits. It amazes me that companies are proud of raising that much capital, and then aim for a (say) nine month development period. Of course, after the product is ready you have to market it, and initial sales are slow - and then one day you suddenly realise that you have no capital left and you're fucked. I'm talking in UKP, BTW, not USD. > But then so's a 24hr stretch of uninterrupted electricity Yeah, it's always amazed me just how crap the north American power system seems to be. Even in cities. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > * Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > Also many hackers have more business sense than their MDs - look at > > success of projects started by hackers or engineers versus that of those > > started by MBAs or middle managers.. > > > > business sense != project sucess why not? I would have thought similar skills were involved in both? -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] brook's law: adding manpower to a late software project makes it later
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:51:18PM +, Greg Cope wrote: > What about a bed / kip room and of course a play room - and I do not > mean some 70's swingers thing - a P2, etc ... Having something to crash on when pulling an all-nighter is, IMO, a bad idea as it encourages pulling all-nighters. You just don't write good code at 2 in the morning, and end up spending just as much time untangling it as you did writing it in the first place. And in any case, if you *need* to work all night, there's something wrong with the project management. Oh yeah, we'd need to have project management skillz in the group too. No need for a whole project mangler though to start with. As for toys - if they're not the *useful* sort of toy then they should be rewards*, as opposed to being there right from the start. That way they become a motivational tool. Although to be honest, I wouldn't be motivated by lots of the things numija companies think are motivating like PS2s. I'd be more for getting a bigger monitor on my workstation, or a punchbag for the office. Or some clean jerrycans :-) * - eg, when the first big fat cheque arrives from a happy client, get a PS 2. When we hit milestones *on time* in the next project, get another game for it. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:42:55PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > * Leo Lapworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > People (no particular order): > > > > = Pimp = = Accountant = > > = BOFH = = Security Guru = > > = Perl Gurus' = = Perl Trainee Gurus = > > i'd add an MD/CEO who would initially do a lot of the > pimping, the accountant could initially also be outsourced. > the BOFH and Security Guru could be rolled into one. > i'd also hire non-Perl programmers so that you didn't > just have one leg to the stool Seems reasonable. Also think about Oracle and Sybase wizards (combined with the BOFH and/or $language Guru roles initially) and an NT person. Actually, *all* the tech people should be sufficiently multi-skilled to be able to do two things reasonably well - that way it's easier to pimp them, they can command more dosh, and they (and the company) are protected if one of their skills goes badly out of fashion. > > Money: > > Base salary and split proffit according to which category your in. > > founders split say 50% of the equity, 25% reserved for latecomers > and 25% pencilled for VC types Just wait for the arguing about how that 50% gets split! > > Open source / clients: > > Create projects for open source community (sell to clients > > with support). When not assigned to a specific money > > making project or client create next project to OS and > > make money from. > > agreed! Yup. Plan to make money from support contracts on this open source stuff, and also from being a 'preferred implementor' using it. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, you wrote: > People (no particular order): > > == > = Pimp = = Accountant = > == > > == = > = BOFH = = Security Guru = > == = > > === === > = Perl Gurus' = = Perl Trainee Gurus = > === === > ooh .. if you have room for an almost acceptable Perl programmer with a total inability to turn up on time, and an even worse habit of working too long, let me know... I'll be in for a bit of that. If its any consolation I'm not as crap now as I was 6 months ago .. and a whole lot less crap than I was a year ago ... and I know a Security Guru who would probably be up for it as well .. and hes a proper one too, I believe his wardrobe has all three shades of hat :) -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, you wrote: > There's a difference between what the conslutant gets and what the client > pays! not here at 'Redpoint Consulting' there isn't :) -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Compiling mod_perl on Debian
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:28:13AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote: > From: "Niklas Nordebo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Anyway, I have a problem I hoped someone might be able to help me with, > when trying to compile mod_perl statically into Apache on my Debian box I get > apt-get install libapache-mod-perl gets you the dynamic version -- is there a > particular advantage to having it statically built? apt-get install apache-perl will get you an apache with mod_perl linked into Apache. -- Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Visit RedClaw! http://redclaw.org.uk
Re: Compiling mod_perl on Debian
On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:28:13AM -0800, Paul Makepeace typed: >apt-get install libapache-mod-perl gets you the dynamic version -- is there a >particular advantage to having it statically built? Want mod_perl and mod_ssl? Debian stable doesn't do this easily without recompilation. R
Re: Compiling mod_perl on Debian
Welcome to London.pm ;-) From: "Niklas Nordebo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Anyway, I have a problem I hoped someone might be able to help me with, when trying to compile mod_perl statically into Apache on my Debian box I get apt-get install libapache-mod-perl gets you the dynamic version -- is there a particular advantage to having it statically built? > /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldb $ zcat /usr/share/doc/libdb2/changelog.Debian.gz db (2:2.7.7-2.2) unstable; urgency=low * NMU * Don't supply libdb.so.[23] anymore. GLibc will handle the runtime libs for the now obsolete ones -- Ben Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:43:15 -0400 So you might want to check your libc's are up to date. Probably worth taking this up on debian-users if still no luck here. Paul
Compiling mod_perl on Debian
Hello everybody, I just moved to London from Stockholm, Sweden, so I joined the list. Anyway, I have a problem I hoped someone might be able to help me with, when trying to compile mod_perl statically into Apache on my Debian box I get /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldb from the sanity check when Makefile.PL runs Apache's Configure. This doesn't happen if I compile Apache standalone. I have libdb2-dev and libc6-dev installed. (more stuff:) Configuring for Apache, Version 1.3.14 + using installation path layout: Apache (config.layout) + activated perl module (modules/perl/libperl.a) Creating Makefile Creating Configuration.apaci in src + id: mod_perl/1.24_01 + id: Perl/5.00503 (linux) [perl] Note (probably harmless): No library found for -lndbm Note (probably harmless): No library found for -lposix cd ..; cc -DLINUX=2 -DMOD_PERL -DUSE_PERL_SSI -Dbool=char -DHAS_BOOL -D_REENTRANT -DDEBIAN -I/usr/local/include -DUSE_HSREGEX -DNO_DL_NEEDED `./apaci` -I. -I/usr/lib/perl5/5.005/i386-linux/CORE-o helpers/dummy helpers/dummy.c -lm -lcrypt -rdynamic -L/usr/local/lib /usr/lib/perl5/5.005/i386-linux/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a -L/usr/lib/perl5/5.005/i386-linux/CORE -lperl -lnsl -lgdbm -ldbm -ldb -ldl -lm -lc -lcrypt /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldb collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [dummy] Error 1 -- Niklas Nordebo -><- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 618, further transmissions to you by the sender may be stopped at NO COST to you by forwarding this e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=remove
Re: RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
From: "Leo Lapworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or > so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you > have to pay them back with interest and stuff. That's not VC then, that's a "loan". VC is where you heave up a huge chunk of cash in return for a chunk of company and hope said company doesn't end up being laughed at and taunted on fuckedcompany.com Is a million considered a lot in the UK still? It's considered a lot over here right now :-) But then so's a 24hr stretch of uninterrupted electricity :-( Anyway, the longer you leave obtaining angel, seed and VC cash and the more you can generate a demonstrably working revenue model the better. Consider VC a last resort -- aim rather for alliances and partnerships, or a straight out acquisition. Paul
Re: PIMB THC-shirts
From: "Andy Wardley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > More effective, yes, because none of the THC is lost to the atmosphere. > However, it takes an hour or so to notice the effects coming on and > when they do, there's no way to stop them. So you might end up ingesting > twice as much as you planned, which you may (or may not :-) consider > wasteful if half as much would have had the desired effect. A friend (*ahem*) lost an entire 24hr period at Glastonbury owing to a mistakenly consuming a 'teenth spilt between two people on a peanut butter sandwich. Water pipes/bongs are actually worse than joints for avoiding nasty stuff in the smoke: THC is more soluble in the water than tar so you end up reducing the good:bad ratio. There is a paper somewhere on http://www.norml.org/ about this. Paul
[Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
In a bad mailbox incident I lost a couple of mails from BOFH inclined people. Would y'all mail me again please? Ta, Dave -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Greg McCarroll wrote: > > * Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Leo Lapworth wrote: > > > > > > > > > Location > > > A big pub in central London. > > > Top floors: development > > > Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops > > > Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. > > > > What about a bed / kip room and of course a play room - and I do not > > mean some 70's swingers thing - a P2, etc ... > > > > nope, they are rewards, rewards are for sucess ;-) Thats were a few people have gone wrong lately then ;-) > > -- > Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
RE: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Neil> So who's any good at business plans... (I have a book but) I know a few things about setting up and running SMEs. Happy to sit down for an hour or so one evening with someone if it would be of assistance. Unfortunately, I'm far too tied up with current venture to get much more involved than this. Regs, J. . Message Central plc Suite K307 Tower Bridge Business Complex 100 Clements Road London SE16 4DG Web: www.msgc.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 20 7394 9511 Fax: +44 20 7231 8201 If you receive this email by mistake, please destroy your copy, having returned this copy to the sender. This email and any attachments to it may have been tampered with. Message Central plc cannot warrant the accuracy, completeness or freedom from viruses of this email or any attachments. You are strongly advised to check this email for viruses before downloading or opening any attachments. Opinions expressed in this email are those of the author and not of Message Central plc. -Original Message- From: Neil Ford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 18 January 2001 04:33 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered [snip the first bit... all great] > >Location > A big pub in central London. > Top floors: development > Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Purleese wireless is the only way to go. :-) > Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. > >I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or >so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you >have to pay them back with interest and stuff. > >Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. > So who's any good at business plans... (I have a book but) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Leo Lapworth wrote: > > > > > > Location > > A big pub in central London. > > Top floors: development > > Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops > > Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. > > What about a bed / kip room and of course a play room - and I do not > mean some 70's swingers thing - a P2, etc ... > nope, they are rewards, rewards are for sucess ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Tony Bowden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:42:55PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > have to pay them back with interest and stuff. > > equity surely? ;-) > > Yes. But if you're successful the "interest" rate is huge ;) > > But if you're not, well, they lose the money and not you. > > FWIW It's much easier to negotiate with VCs if you're already > well established and actually have revenue and commitments and > stuff > well, this is all getting a bit close to the grain for me, if anyone wants to discuss the possibilities of a non-perl specialised arena consultancy feel free to to email me off list, however there may be nasty NDA's involved -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Leo Lapworth wrote: > > > Location > A big pub in central London. > Top floors: development > Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops > Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. What about a bed / kip room and of course a play room - and I do not mean some 70's swingers thing - a P2, etc ... Greg > I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or > so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you > have to pay them back with interest and stuff. > > Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. > > Leo
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:42:55PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > have to pay them back with interest and stuff. > equity surely? ;-) Yes. But if you're successful the "interest" rate is huge ;) But if you're not, well, they lose the money and not you. FWIW It's much easier to negotiate with VCs if you're already well established and actually have revenue and commitments and stuff Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk my Uncle Sol had a skunk farm but the skunks caught cold -
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Leo Lapworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > People (no particular order): > > == > = Pimp = = Accountant = > == > > == = > = BOFH = = Security Guru = > == = > > === === > = Perl Gurus' = = Perl Trainee Gurus = > === === i'd add an MD/CEO who would initially do a lot of the pimping, the accountant could initially also be outsourced. the BOFH and Security Guru could be rolled into one. i'd also hire non-Perl programmers so that you didn't just have one leg to the stool > Money: > Base salary and split proffit according to which category your in. founders split say 50% of the equity, 25% reserved for latecomers and 25% pencilled for VC types contractors could expect to take a 50 to 75% drop in salary > Open source / clients: > Create projects for open source community (sell to clients > with support). When not assigned to a specific money > making project or client create next project to OS and > make money from. agreed! > Create client base with support contracts. also create partner arrangements, i can think of at least 3 big companies i maybe could arrange partnerships with, that in some cases would double the daily rate for consultancy > Location ;-) > have to pay them back with interest and stuff. equity surely? ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:21:45AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: > At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:16:59 +, Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > * David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > > > > there is a big question here, do people want to create a small > > > > business with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or > > > > do people want to create a proper consulting business aiming to > > > > see it grow > > > > > > Both, of course :-) > > > > yip, but you have to make a choice > > Why? Is there a good reason why the former couldn't gradually over time > metamorphose into the latter? > > Dave... I presume if the vast majority of the money is going directly into people's pockets there won't be much going into things that build the infrastructure of the company - training and so on. Also one way to build a business is to create a "product" and build round that (eg cough spew choke Vignette). Working on this sort of thing may not result in great income in the short term compared to say chucking ten people off to Goldman Sachs. jp
RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hatworm discovered
[snip the first bit... all great] > >Location > A big pub in central London. > Top floors: development > Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Purleese wireless is the only way to go. :-) > Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. > >I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or >so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you >have to pay them back with interest and stuff. > >Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. > So who's any good at business plans... (I have a book but) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: apologies
>At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:03:39 +, "Andy Wardley" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Jan 18, 4:57am, Dave Cross wrote: >> >> > OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by >> > stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about >> Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? >> >> I can talk all night given half the chance (and appropriate throatal >> lubrication :-) > >...and most of us would love to listen to you :) > >Simon has already stepped into the breach. Thanks for the offer tho'. > >Dave... Simon did say he was feeling rough, so he might be grateful for being able to take a rain check. I think his birfday celebrations are having an adverse effect on him. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
People (no particular order): == = Pimp = = Accountant = == == = = BOFH = = Security Guru = == = === === = Perl Gurus' = = Perl Trainee Gurus = === === Out source to other similar companies for: - design - mass HTMLing Money: Base salary and split proffit according to which category your in. Open source / clients: Create projects for open source community (sell to clients with support). When not assigned to a specific money making project or client create next project to OS and make money from. Create client base with support contracts. Long term@ pimp out to only the best companies. Location A big pub in central London. Top floors: development Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you have to pay them back with interest and stuff. Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. Leo
Re: apologies
At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:03:39 +, "Andy Wardley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Jan 18, 4:57am, Dave Cross wrote: > > > OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by > > stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about > Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? > > I can talk all night given half the chance (and appropriate throatal > lubrication :-) ...and most of us would love to listen to you :) Simon has already stepped into the breach. Thanks for the offer tho'. Dave...
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Jan 16, 2:54pm, Nathan Torkington wrote: > We're planning a London Open Source Convention. The dates we're > looking hard at now are August 20-23. Are there any obvious clashes > that you can think of? I think most of it's already been said, but I'd like to reiterate anyway. August is almost certainly likely to see fewer natives and more tourists in London and the environs. Venues and accomodation will be hard to find and expensive. Mid September would be much better, IMHO. A -- Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Signature regenerating. Please remain seated. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
dcross - David Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > From: Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: 18 January 2001 11:42 > > > > What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get > > > anyway? > > > > Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the > > programmer. And the task. > > Sounds a tad low to me. I said "from..." -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: apologies
Steve Mynott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Didn't they appear at the Albert Hall with a orchestra in 1970? Their > early exposure to classical music didn't impro^H^H^H^H^H change their > direction much. They did it again last year and hauled the orchestra round Europe this time. > BTW if anyone has the "On the Wings of a Russian Foxbat" 1977 bootleg > on MP3 with the better guitarist than their usual one can they email > it since Messrs Napster and Gnutella have failed me on this one? It's been cleaned up and officially released: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B06Y3Z/thehighwaystar0a/ Dave // Debating going to Tokyo to see them in March... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: apologies
On Jan 18, 4:57am, Dave Cross wrote: > OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? I can talk all night given half the chance (and appropriate throatal lubrication :-) A -- Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Signature regenerating. Please remain seated. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/
Re: PIMB THC-shirts
On Jan 17, 4:05pm, Redvers Davies wrote: > Myself and a couple of friends of mine were talking about this before > and someone suggested that ingestion in cakes was healthier still and > more "effective". Healthier, certainly. Smoking anything is bad for your respiratory tract and lungs. However, there is evidence to suggest that smoking weed is nothing like as harmful as smoking tobacco. It's not the tar or the nicotine in tobacco that gives you lung cancer, but the radiation... More effective, yes, because none of the THC is lost to the atmosphere. However, it takes an hour or so to notice the effects coming on and when they do, there's no way to stop them. So you might end up ingesting twice as much as you planned, which you may (or may not :-) consider wasteful if half as much would have had the desired effect. Or so I've been told. :-)= A -- Andy Wardley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Signature regenerating. Please remain seated. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:16:59 +, Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > * David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > > > > there is a big question here, do people want to create a small > > > > business with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or > > > > do people want to create a proper consulting business aiming to > > > > see it grow > > > > > > Both, of course :-) > > > > yip, but you have to make a choice > > Why? Is there a good reason why the former couldn't gradually over time > metamorphose into the latter? > an initial wage structure/share division for the former may not be appropriate for the latter, this of course could be changed but you may run into disagreements at the stage of this change -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
- Original Message - From: "Michael Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 18 January 2001 14:29 Subject: Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:55:08PM -, dcross - David Cross wrote: > Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less > than £50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about £500/day. I'd have thought that > if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's > "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. When I was working in cardiff the company I was working for would charge clients 500ukp/day for technical development. And this was cardiff. --- These numbers sound a lot more reasonable than what I thought was the going rate. I've stuck with SAP mostly because of the cash (it's not unreasonable to ask for 100gbp/hour for SAP - yes I know, I'm not worth it, but my company get most of it anyway). But if I could get the same for doing interesting work instead...it is interesting, and fun, isn't it? Or do you get cynical and bored like with any other job. /Robert
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:16:59 +, Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > > > there is a big question here, do people want to create a small > > > business with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or > > > do people want to create a proper consulting business aiming to > > > see it grow > > > > Both, of course :-) > > yip, but you have to make a choice Why? Is there a good reason why the former couldn't gradually over time metamorphose into the latter? Dave...
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > > > there is a big question here, do people want to create a small business > > with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or do people want > > to create a proper consulting business aiming to see it grow > > Both, of course :-) > yip, but you have to make a choice -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: apologies
At 11:41 18/01/01, binkyuk wrote: > >At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:54:40 +, Dave told us to: > > > >OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by > >stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about > >Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? > > >Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable >powerbook.. > >Movie intermission anyone? ...or, after following the conversations on irc, how about you give a 5-10 minute talk on how *not* to join a startup at the same time they go bust and / or the current state of h2g2, or something like that, Neil? ;-) Natalie
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: > there is a big question here, do people want to create a small business > with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or do people want > to create a proper consulting business aiming to see it grow Both, of course :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Also many hackers have more business sense than their MDs - look at > success of projects started by hackers or engineers versus that of those > started by MBAs or middle managers.. > business sense != project sucess there is a big question here, do people want to create a small business with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or do people want to create a proper consulting business aiming to see it grow -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Marcel Grunauer wrote: > > Michael Stevens writes: > > >When I was working in cardiff the company I was working for would charge > >clients 500ukp/day for technical development. And this was cardiff. > > Ok, but that's for a company, with administrative overhead etc. For a > single consultant/programmer/system analyst/whatever, IMO GBP 500/day is > quite good; I never got above 50/hr with an agent and 60/hr without an > agent (but jobs are easier to come by if you have a pimp). If solicitors can have an office just for a few partners it can't be that hard to do it as consultants. Also many hackers have more business sense than their MDs - look at success of projects started by hackers or engineers versus that of those started by MBAs or middle managers.. A. -- http://termisoc.org/~betty"> Betty @ termisoc.org "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:29:20PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:55:08PM -, dcross - David Cross wrote: > > Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less > > than £50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about £500/day. I'd have thought that > > if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's > > "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. > > When I was working in cardiff the company I was working for would charge > clients 500ukp/day for technical development. And this was cardiff. There's a difference between what the conslutant gets and what the client pays! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* dcross - David Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > From: Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: 18 January 2001 11:42 > > > > What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get > > > anyway? > > > > Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the > > programmer. And the task. > > Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less > than £50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about £500/day. I'd have thought that > if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's > "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. > yes, but if it was a proper consultancy youd be expected to write off some of that occasionally and also maybe have some centralised support of the course the real cash comes from ongoing support contracts -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:55:08PM -, dcross - David Cross wrote: > Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less > than £50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about £500/day. I'd have thought that > if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's > "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. When I was working in cardiff the company I was working for would charge clients 500ukp/day for technical development. And this was cardiff. Michael
RE: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
From: Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 18 January 2001 11:42 > > What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get > > anyway? > > Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the > programmer. And the task. Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less than £50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about £500/day. I'd have thought that if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
RE: apologies
From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 18 January 2001 13:46 > Dave Cross wrote: > > > OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the > > day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to > > talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? > > I could give a talk on either Flash stuff (again, although there's not > much else to say ATM that people don't already know) or > something on IP -> Longtitude and Latitude. Either sounds fine to me. You choose. You're on first :) Dave... The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
Netscape has; NETSCAPE.COM.SHOULD-DUMP.AOL-AND-REHIRE.JWZ.BUT.CHECK-OUT.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG mallum On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:12:19PM -, Robert Shiels wrote: > > > SLASHDOT.ORG.SUCKS.COMPARED.TO.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG > > jimphillips has one on Microsoft too. > > MICROSOFT.COM.IS.NO.MATCH.FOR.THE.UEBER-GEEKS.AT.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG > > Hmmm > > /Robert > >
Re: apologies
dcross - David Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > From: Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: 18 January 2001 11:05 > > > I have Deep Purple at the Montreux jazz festival 2000... ;-) > > That all sounds a bit Spinal Tap. > > "We hope you like our new direction" :) Didn't they appear at the Albert Hall with a orchestra in 1970? Their early exposure to classical music didn't impro^H^H^H^H^H change their direction much. BTW if anyone has the "On the Wings of a Russian Foxbat" 1977 bootleg on MP3 with the better guitarist than their usual one can they email it since Messrs Napster and Gnutella have failed me on this one? -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- mark twain
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:53:12PM -, Matthew Jones wrote: > Is this relevant at all? > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/16147.html > "The injunction was granted thanks to new European database laws that > essentially assume data to be copyrightable" Almost certainly. As I say, my legal dealings here were 5 years ago when it wasn't... > Does that mean things like the Billboard charts? They could certainly try > and demonstrate an adverse effect on their revenues from licensing their > listings... Well, you're into transatlantic stuff if the site was in the UK, but this new law would massively complicate things. Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk beneath it's shining like gold but better rumours of glory -
RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:03:52AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: > > The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That* > > is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue. > How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what > the object code to looks like?" Is this relevant at all? http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/16147.html "The injunction was granted thanks to new European database laws that essentially assume data to be copyrightable" Does that mean things like the Billboard charts? They could certainly try and demonstrate an adverse effect on their revenues from licensing their listings... -- matt "The problem with youth culture and media today is that young people are given the impression that they actually are doing something, when in fact they are only needed as participants in a staged marketing event." - Wolfgang Tillmans
RE: apologies
From: Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 18 January 2001 11:05 > I have Deep Purple at the Montreux jazz festival 2000... ;-) That all sounds a bit Spinal Tap. "We hope you like our new direction" :) Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
Re: apologies
Dave Cross wrote: > OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give >a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? I could give a talk on either Flash stuff (again, although there's not much else to say ATM that people don't already know) or something on IP -> Longtitude and Latitude.
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:03:52AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: > > The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That* > > is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue. > How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what > the object code to looks like?" If people can't see a difference here, then let's just leave it to the lawyers. We'll just go round and round for ages... Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk i don't want the world i just want your half -
RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
Tony Bowden wrote: > The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That* > is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue. How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what the object code to looks like?" Under (U.S.) IP law, it's pretty much the same thing. ymmv. ianal. -- mike
?party animals
As I've never met you all in person (hopefully to be rectified on February 1st, can't come tonight as we're boarding the loft..don't ask) I don't know how big a party animal you all are, however some of you may be interested that Linkdup/Uploaded are having a party on February 1st at the Strongrooms Bar EC1 that goes on till 2am; details from their website at http://weare.preloaded.com . * Jon Galliers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmer Perl/C++/MySQL/DB2/Java Design Net http://www.design.net.uk Tel: +44(0)870 240 0088 Fax: +44(0)870 240 0099 *
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
"Robert Shiels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > - Original Message - > From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: 18 January 2001 11:25 > Subject: Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered > > > > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:31:02AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > > > > David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > Actually I was thinking more along the lines of me being too damned lazy > > to whore myself around, to do the accounty boring stuff, and even to send > > invoices out on time. All that's fine when I'm just donig a bit of > > consluting on the side, of course. > > > > Yes, but that's where the economies of scale come in. Half a dozen > consultants ought to be able to afford the services of an accounts clerk, > and maybe their own business manager who can do the pimp^h^h^h^hsearching > around for work for you. Gunther had a lot of experience with this at extropia and I have some mail somorewhere I'm sure he'd be happy to share (but obviously I'll ask him). However, they were developing an application rather than bodyshopping^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H consulting. If you/we got the likes of Andy *hint* on board then I'd go in at the high end with "getting it right" type of stuff. There are also enough products out there that have perl behind them that there's plenty of scope for installation/customising. >What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get > anyway? Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the programmer. And the task. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
- Original Message - From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 18 January 2001 11:25 Subject: Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:31:02AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > > > David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Actually I was thinking more along the lines of me being too damned lazy > to whore myself around, to do the accounty boring stuff, and even to send > invoices out on time. All that's fine when I'm just donig a bit of > consluting on the side, of course. > Yes, but that's where the economies of scale come in. Half a dozen consultants ought to be able to afford the services of an accounts clerk, and maybe their own business manager who can do the pimp^h^h^h^hsearching around for work for you. I'm not available (or good enough) to work full time as a perl programmer, but my current company works very much along these lines for SAP. The only difference is that one person is the owner of the company. SAP chargeout rates are pretty high though, which probably affects the economics of the thing. What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get anyway? /Robert
Re: apologies
> i am not going to be able to make it tonight, today is my first day > back at work after some flu like illness. i had hoped to make it > tonight but currently feel like matt wrights code, ditto, except today is the first day of similar flu-like illness :( sorry i wont be there to do the gracious hostessing thing and my five minutes of fame will have to wait :/ have a good one, jo
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
> SLASHDOT.ORG.SUCKS.COMPARED.TO.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG jimphillips has one on Microsoft too. MICROSOFT.COM.IS.NO.MATCH.FOR.THE.UEBER-GEEKS.AT.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG Hmmm /Robert
Re: apologies
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:41:29AM +, Neil Ford wrote: > Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable > powerbook.. > > Movie intermission anyone? Cool, 20 minutes is plenty enough to watch all the good bits in The Matrix. God bless chapter-seek. -- Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* John ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > Hmmm, does sound good though. > it all depends what you mean, do you mean a proper consultancy or a bunch of people getting together to share accounting/marketting? if its a proper consultancy, you'd have to wear suits, be polite and be in work for 9 in the morning if you were a contractor joining it you could expect a 50%+ pay cut instead of recruiters taking a skim, the running of the company including advertising, management etc. would all eat some of the cash also you'd need to focus it by problem areas not by language having said all of this, if its a later its a good idea -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
Title: RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com YAHOO.COM.IS.TRYING.TO.STEAL.YAHOO.VU.HOW.ACIDULOUS.COM -Original Message- From: Bates, Duncan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 18 January 2001 12:03 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com >>APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET >>WHITEHOUSE.GOV.HAS.THE.BEST.TERRORISTS.NET AMAZON.COM.SHOULD.SELL.SEXTOYSONLINE.COM SLASHDOT.ORG.SUCKS.COMPARED.TO.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG -- Duncan Bates Developer Proxicom UK Tel: 020 7321 3812 Mobile: 07884 336 532 http://www.proxicom.com/
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
>>APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET >>WHITEHOUSE.GOV.HAS.THE.BEST.TERRORISTS.NET AMAZON.COM.SHOULD.SELL.SEXTOYSONLINE.COM SLASHDOT.ORG.SUCKS.COMPARED.TO.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG -- Duncan Bates Developer Proxicom UK Tel: 020 7321 3812 Mobile: 07884 336 532 http://www.proxicom.com/
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:54:16AM -, Mike Chamberlain wrote: > APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET > > Anyone spotted any others? TERRORISTS.NET.IS.SO.FUCKING.31338.NET I like 31338.net - as thought 31337.net had already gone, so they just went for the next one up. .robin.
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
Title: RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com others to check slashdot.org sex.com terrorists.net ibm.com (something wierd is happenening there) microsoft.net home.com thats just a quick look through of some obvious ones -Original Message- From: Bates, Duncan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 18 January 2001 11:53 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com >>APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET Server Name: WHITEHOUSE.GOV.HAS.THE.BEST.TERRORISTS.NET -- Duncan Bates Developer Proxicom UK Tel: 020 7321 3812 Mobile: 07884 336 532 http://www.proxicom.com/
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
> > >>APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET > > Server Name: WHITEHOUSE.GOV.HAS.THE.BEST.TERRORISTS.NET TERRORISTS.NET.IS.SO.FUCKING.31338.NET
Re: apologies
Neil Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable > powerbook.. > > Movie intermission anyone? I have Deep Purple at the Montreux jazz festival 2000... ;-) -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 06:09:32AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: > > At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market > > > right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. > > > > Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? > > Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] Hmmm, does sound good though. John -- :wq
whiteboard pens
for people who are coming to the tech meeting tonight -- do you have any whiteboard pens you could bring along? to avoid unnecessary confusion, list traffic and whiteboard pens, if whiteboard pen owners could mail me directly offering to bring some, I'll reply to the first person saying "yes please bring your whiteboard pens along by all means." cheers, alex -- Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
>>APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET Server Name: WHITEHOUSE.GOV.HAS.THE.BEST.TERRORISTS.NET -- Duncan Bates Developer Proxicom UK Tel: 020 7321 3812 Mobile: 07884 336 532 http://www.proxicom.com/
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
>Roger Burton West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:37:27AM +, Steve Mynott typed: >> >> >RH/Slackware/Debian/Solaris/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD are all fine >> >systems but they need to be setup by someone who knows what they are >> >doing in the same way that Perl has to be written by clueful >> >programmers. >> >> And competent *ix system builders/admins are about as easy to find as >> clueful programmers. And certifications are about as useful in finding >> them. > >Talking of which, having interviewed/seen/lunched a fair number of >perlmongers recently and then offered a bunch of Java weenies, I still >need a BOFH. Not just someone who can "do", but who has vision to >drive things forward. Like me, only more anally retentive and will do >the second 90% of any job :-) > >Anyone know one? > Well kinda :-) >The money's only OK, but the toys are great :-) > I need to see thing how things pan out here and on a couple of other fronts first. Toys are always a good incentive. >And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market >right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. > Quite happy to consider that, doing the sysadminy / strategy / project management type stuff can't code perl for toffee I'm afraid. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
Title: RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com aol.com has a load -Original Message- From: Mike Chamberlain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 18 January 2001 11:54 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com > > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:22:45AM +, Robin Houston wrote: > > > MICROSOFT.COM.IS.SECRETLY.RUN.BY.ILLUMINATI.TERRORISTS.NET > > > > but > > > > MICROSOFT.COM.INSPIRES.COPYCAT.WANNABE.SUBVERSIVES.NET > > > > is quite a good explanation of what's happened :-) > > Yeah, this was NTKed some time ago. The names may have > changed but the > principle is the same. > APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET Anyone spotted any others? Mike.
RE: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
> > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:22:45AM +, Robin Houston wrote: > > > MICROSOFT.COM.IS.SECRETLY.RUN.BY.ILLUMINATI.TERRORISTS.NET > > > > but > > > > MICROSOFT.COM.INSPIRES.COPYCAT.WANNABE.SUBVERSIVES.NET > > > > is quite a good explanation of what's happened :-) > > Yeah, this was NTKed some time ago. The names may have > changed but the > principle is the same. > APPLE.COM.IS.THE.CHOICE.OF.ALL.SELF.RESPECTING.TERRORISTS.NET Anyone spotted any others? Mike.
Re: apologies
>At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:54:40 +, Greg McCarroll ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Apologies one and all, >> >> i am not going to be able to make it tonight, today is my first day >> back at work after some flu like illness. i had hoped to make it >> tonight but currently feel like matt wrights code, > >OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by >stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about >Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? > >Dave... Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable powerbook.. Movie intermission anyone? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote: > At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market > > right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. > > Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? I would join but I appear to be jinxed at the moment. so it would be unfair on the rest ;) A. -- http://termisoc.org/~betty"> Betty @ termisoc.org "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 11:22:45AM +, Robin Houston wrote: > MICROSOFT.COM.IS.SECRETLY.RUN.BY.ILLUMINATI.TERRORISTS.NET > > but > > MICROSOFT.COM.INSPIRES.COPYCAT.WANNABE.SUBVERSIVES.NET > > is quite a good explanation of what's happened :-) Yeah, this was NTKed some time ago. The names may have changed but the principle is the same. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
At 18 Jan 2001 10:31:02 +, Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] > > you're (we're ;-) (almost) all alcoholics with personality disorders? Depending on who we're targetting as clients, image _may_ be an issue here :) > Why keep giving the money to the pimps^H^H^H^H^H agencies? Because agents are fine and useful members of society and we feel duty-bound to help support their cocaine habits? Dave...
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:31:02AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: > David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] > > you're (we're ;-) (almost) all alcoholics with personality disorders? Actually I was thinking more along the lines of me being too damned lazy to whore myself around, to do the accounty boring stuff, and even to send invoices out on time. All that's fine when I'm just donig a bit of consluting on the side, of course. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
Tony Bowden wrote: > On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:05:41PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote: > > I believe the reasoning given is data protection -- people > > consented to have their name and number in a book but only > > for the usual use: looking up a number by name. And that > > people are not allowed to provide reverse search unless they > > have the consent of all the people involved. > > I may be *completely* wrong on this one, but doesn't Data > Protection work the other way around? i.e. as long as you state > what you're doing it's up to people to opt out, rather than opt > in? Part of the problem may be that the data is generally gathered by German Telecom, who publish the printed telephone books, and other companies who wish to produce phone number CDs generally buy the data from Telekom. (The price has been significantly reduced now, and I believe Telekom now is obliged to sell the data.) And Telekom doesn't offer reversed phone searches and probably isn't interested in them, so they probably don't state that this may occur. So if someone wants to collect data stating they want to use it for a reverse search, they'd have to get hold of all the people all over again. > Of course, this might be different in Germany, than in the > UK, and I don't really know much about Data Protection in the > UK either ... Then again, I could be talking completely out of my hat here. Cheers, Philip
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] you're (we're ;-) (almost) all alcoholics with personality disorders? Why keep giving the money to the pimps^H^H^H^H^H agencies? -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: (OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:22:14PM -0500, mallum wrote: > do a whois microsoft.com and see what you get. Well, it looks like some new entries have been added in the last couple of months. My favourite is still MICROSOFT.COM.IS.SECRETLY.RUN.BY.ILLUMINATI.TERRORISTS.NET but MICROSOFT.COM.INSPIRES.COPYCAT.WANNABE.SUBVERSIVES.NET is quite a good explanation of what's happened :-) .robin.
(OT-ish) whois microsoft.com
Im pretty sure this is a new one. do a whois microsoft.com and see what you get. mallum http://10.am
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 06:09:32AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: > At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market > > right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. > > Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? Yes, but [caveat] [caveat] [caveat] -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
At 18 Jan 2001 10:09:04 +, Dave Hodgkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market > right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. Sounds good to me. Anyone else up for it? Dave...
[Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Roger Burton West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:37:27AM +, Steve Mynott typed: > > >RH/Slackware/Debian/Solaris/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD are all fine > >systems but they need to be setup by someone who knows what they are > >doing in the same way that Perl has to be written by clueful > >programmers. > > And competent *ix system builders/admins are about as easy to find as > clueful programmers. And certifications are about as useful in finding > them. Talking of which, having interviewed/seen/lunched a fair number of perlmongers recently and then offered a bunch of Java weenies, I still need a BOFH. Not just someone who can "do", but who has vision to drive things forward. Like me, only more anally retentive and will do the second 90% of any job :-) Anyone know one? The money's only OK, but the toys are great :-) And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 12:05:41PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote: > I believe the reasoning given is data protection -- people consented to have > their name and number in a book but only for the usual use: looking up a > number by name. And that people are not allowed to provide reverse search > unless they have the consent of all the people involved. I may be *completely* wrong on this one, but doesn't Data Protection work the other way around? i.e. as long as you state what you're doing it's up to people to opt out, rather than opt in? Of course, this might be different in Germany, than in the UK, and I don't really know much about Data Protection in the UK either ... Just curious. Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk may my mind stroll about hungry and fearless and thirsty and supple -
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
Tony Bowden wrote: > The classic case is someone who retypes a phone book. You > can't reissue it in the same order (i.e. alphabetic by surname) > as the original, but you could quite happily order it numberic > by phone number and no-one could do anything... They could in Germany :-). There's been quite a bit of hoo-ha about this in recent years. It started out with a company providing a telephone CD (apparently they had people in China type up printed telephone directories, which was cheaper than buying the data from German Telecom) which also enabled you to search by number. Then that was forbidden, and third-party companies started selling add-ons that worked with vendor XYZ's telephone CD to add the reverse search back in; those are forbidden, too, but these third parties are harder to get at. I believe the reasoning given is data protection -- people consented to have their name and number in a book but only for the usual use: looking up a number by name. And that people are not allowed to provide reverse search unless they have the consent of all the people involved. Cheers, Philip
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 05:53:16PM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: > > The information is factual. Factual information cannot be > > copyrighted. Only the arrangement of it. > > Nope. What is a chart? Billboard or R&R or whoever's view of what the most > popular songs in a given week were. They all use different methodologies, > and are sort of an estimation as to what the popular songs are. Not the issue. The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That* is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue. Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk whatever we lose(like a you or a me)it's always ourselves we find in the sea -
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 08:40:56PM +, Roger Burton West wrote: > >If you present the chart in a different format to how they did then > >there's nothing they can do... > Take a look at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/getchart.html for a > differing viewpoint. OK ... when I said "there's nothing they can do", I of course meant there's nothing they can do if you're prepared to actually fight them in court, not "they can't send you threatening legal letters that actually carry no legal weight". There's nothing at that page to suggest that CIN were doing anything other than throwing their weight around just to scare someone off. Which is what companies do all the time. I paid thousands of pounds for legal advice on this very issue (albeit about 5 years ago), and the opinion I got was "factual information cannot be copyrighted - only the arrangement of it". The classic case is someone who retypes a phone book. You can't reissue it in the same order (i.e. alphabetic by surname) as the original, but you could quite happily order it numberic by phone number and no-one could do anything... Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk make me laugh make me cry enrage me don't try to disengage me -
