Dear Martin,
You may recall that quite some years ago it was generally accepted that
the vihuela (but not the viola) was strung in unison - I believe this
was a misreading of an early source and was explained through the great
wealth of Spain in the periof whereby such expensive
I concur, Dr Winheld. I would love to keep them all in gut but
reaching for the instrument I use least or most and finding another
broken or barely limping along string compels me to fall into the
plastic alternative. The last major gut purchase nearly started divorce
proceedings.
I am afraid the pieces in Barberiis are probably not for the 4-course guitar
but - as Stuart has kindly pointed out with the appropriate reference - for
a small 4-course lute or mandora.
Renato Meucci, Da 'chitarra italiana' a 'chitarrone': una nuova
interpretazione; in Enrico Radesca da
Dear Monica,
You write 'There('s) no hard evidence that the 4-course guitar was
played in Italy' and, of course, you're quite right.
But it was played in Spain, then a major influence in all Hapsburg
lands and in some Italian states as well as Naples. So I don't see it
being
Dear Martyn and all,
I think the notion that the vihuela was strung in unisons is based on a
source (which one, anyone?) which contrasts the vihuela with the
Flemish vihuela i.e. the lute. Can someone help with the reference?
As far as I know there is no documentary evidence on the
htmlheadmeta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;
charset=UTF-8/headbodyCovarrubias? nbsp;I think that was the source, I
might be wrong.nbsp;divnbsp;A non musical one, btw.nbsp;brbrbrfont
size=2Enviado de Samsung Mobile/font /divbrbrbrMartin Shepherd
lt;mar...@luteshop.co.ukgt;
Dear Martin,
Thanks for this: I'll revisit Pisador's instructions and see what they
imply.
Re your observation that 'I think it is wrong to assume that playing a
string with the finger rather than the thumb will emphasize one or
other octave - it's all a matter of technique.'
Dear G Abramovic,
I'd love to read what you wrote but all I got was this below! Is it
Wayne's system or what?
regards
Martyn Hodgson
--- On Mon, 21/1/13, G_abramovic g_abramo...@hotmail.com wrote:
From: G_abramovic g_abramo...@hotmail.com
Subject: [LUTE] Re:
Dear Martyn,
I never said it was easy! It's not a question of avoiding playing all
the upper octaves but a question of emphasis and blending. I assume
(perhaps wrongly) that it is always desirable to play both strings of a
course. As others have said, the nature of a particular
On 21/01/2013 12:41, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Dear G Abramovic,
I'd love to read what you wrote but all I got was this below! Is it
Wayne's system or what?
regards
Martyn Hodgson
There maybe a more straightforward way than this to deal Ariel's email
(which has html
It is Bermudo who compares the 4-course guitar which has octave stringing on
the 4th course with the laud or vihuela de Flandes the two terms being
(presumably) synonimous.
Pisador implies that the 4th course of the vihuela was in unison - but that
doesn't rule out the possibility that the
Well - obviously the 4-course guitar was played in Spain although the extent
to which it was played in the contrapuntal manner suggested by the few
surviving pieces in Mudarra and Fuenllana is unknown.
The point which Meucci makes about Barberiis is that it is a bit odd that a
printed
Thanks Martin,
I agree that generally both strings ought to be heard - but using the
finger (which contacts the upper string first) can produce a
significantly different effect than using the thumb (which contacts the
lower string first) to pluck the same note (ie number).
Dear Monica,
I don't find it odd that Barberiis included a few pieces for 4 course
guitar in his collection. Presumably he included them by way of a
sop/offering to those few players who played such an instrument as well
as lute; in much the same way as Mudarra and Fuenllana
Well - feel free to get in touch with Signor Meucci and tell him what you
think.
For the rest of it the 4-course guitar is more closely related to the
vihuela than to the lute so it is not surprising that two of the vihuela
books should include a number of pieces for it or that Bermudo should
Dear Monica,
I have a few more sources listed for 4-course guitar with at least
Italian tablature, although possibly not all Italian:
B-Bc MS LIt. XY no. 24135 [1570-1580 (tablature section)]
(Italy?) [not in RISM; see TYLER p. 31]
4-course guitar in Italian tablature
GB-Lam Ms. 645 [1625
Monica et al.,
Note also that--very unusually--the Barberiis pieces are in inverted
Italian tablature . . . with the upper line being the highest pitched
string. Another indication that they are somehow unique?
Gary
On 1/21/2013 5:38 AM, Monica Hall wrote:
I am afraid the pieces in
Interesting list. Most of them are late and do the sources actually say
that the pieces are for guitar? In most cases it may just be that the
tablature is 4 lines and the tuning matches.
Tyler says of the first one that the pieces were probably copied in 1570s -
but how does he know that?
Yes - that is certainly so - I had forgotten that. It suggest Neapolitan
but doesn't prove what shape the instrument was.
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Gary R. Boye boy...@appstate.edu
To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com; Lutelist
Milan also notated the top string as the upper line didn't he?
Op 21 jan 2013, om 19:01 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven:
Yes - that is certainly so - I had forgotten that. It suggest Neapolitan but
doesn't prove what shape the instrument was.
Monica
- Original Message
To avoid misunderstandings I suggest to use the terms for instruments in the
language of the most important region in which they were used. So I say
Mandore to the small 16/17 c. instrument because the main sources are in
France. See
Dear Martin Martyn-
In regard to technique being a factor in controlling the effect of 8ve
strings- my personal experience is that the thumb under/inside
technique, bringing more finger/thumb surface to bear on the course as a
whole the more parallel (even absolute parallel if one wishes)
Yes he did
Monica
- Original Message -
From: Lex van Sante lvansa...@gmail.com
To: lute mailing list list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 6:14 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Calata de StrAmbotto
Milan also notated the top string as the upper line didn't he?
Op 21
On 21/01/2013 18:20, Andreas Schlegel wrote:
To avoid misunderstandings I suggest to use the terms for instruments in the language of
the most important region in which they were used. So I say Mandore to the
small 16/17 c. instrument because the main sources are in France. See
On 21/01/2013 13:54, Monica Hall wrote:
Well - obviously the 4-course guitar was played in Spain although the
extent to which it was played in the contrapuntal manner suggested by
the few surviving pieces in Mudarra and Fuenllana is unknown.
The point which Meucci makes about Barberiis is
Tinctorius defines these two instruments thus...
The gittern
-a small tortoise shaped instrument invented by the Catalans which some
call ghiterra, others ghiterna The ghiterra is used most rarely, because of
the thinness of its sound. When I heard it in Catalonia, it was being used
much
There does seem to be some iconography from Italian sources. I realize this
page
http://www.thecipher.com/viola_da_gamba_cipher-3.html
is light on sources but I believe the matching guitar-shaped instrument and
violin intarsia is from the Gonzaga estate c.1507.
The intarsia is about 2/3 down
Dear Monica,
I'm sure it is the case that these sources make (wild) assumptions about
the instrument being used; it happens again and again in the literature.
For the time being, I have to rely on the work of some unreliable
sources until I can get fuller information or see copies of the
Dear Monica,
I have one other source using inverted Italian tab, unfortunately one
that is now lost:
F-VE Ms. 711 [c1598] [LOST]
(Germany) [lost since 1945; survives only in MS notes by M. Brenet in
F-Pn Ms. nouv. acq. fr. 1141; RISM B/VII p. 343; SMT I p. 166]
7-course lute in French
Here's a better image of those instruments in the intarsia from the Palazzo
Ducale in Mantua. Any guesses as to what the left stringed instrument is? A
single strung vihuela de mano?
Could that be an ocarina below the double flute??
http://www.wga.hu/art/m/mola_ap/musical2.jpg
Sean
On Jan
Hi Stuart and Andreas,
It's very complex if only have a name to go on; I think we all agree.
But if you've got tablature or a tuning chart it's a completely
different story.
The French baroque mandolin called mandore has a tuning which has
fifths and fourths (most notably the
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