Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Stephen George
steve_...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
 On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

 of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
 for :-)-O

 No he can't, with comments like
 open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker with
 computers but almost none for those who actually want to do something.

 He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source programs,
 and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
 Servers are commodity-class x86 PCs running customized versions of Linux.

 Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be
 useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use
 that service.
 http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html

 In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source Apache
 dominating the HTTP internet server market
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
 Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software in
 use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all active
 websites and 58.49% of the top servers across all domains

 There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is also
 powered by an open source program.

Not to mention that he is probably surfing the web via Firefox or Chrome.

Liviu


 Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people are
 against open source programs.
 Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop and
 continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont think
 you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of outrage after
 hearing the comments)

 Steve




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Jan Ulrich Hasecke]

It is flattering to say, hey John Doe the great novelist is using LyX,
but much more important is another question.

Is LyX the right tool for a publisher who wants to publish printed books
and ebooks from the same source, which is what publishers want to do
today. At least this is what I want to do. ;-)

While there is no question concerning the typesetting quality of
LyX/LaTeX, I still have questions concerning ebooks. I listed them in
another thread.
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg95701.html

You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
publishers.

Cheers!
juh

[1] http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php


-- 
Demeter and the Commons of Being
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGPS26W
Speculative essay against loss of ancestry and the arrogation of property

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
 You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
 a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
 distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
 Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
 publishers.

This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

Liviu

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Jan Ulrich Hasecke]

Am 12.06.2013 10:59, schrieb Liviu Andronic:
 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
 You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
 a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
 distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
 Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
 publishers.

 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
 http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

Great news! There is als AFAIK a GSoC project for better ePub support.
So my dreams might come true soon.

Thanks!
juh

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
able to test it), by Rob?


2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
  You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
  a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
  distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
  Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
  publishers.
 
 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
 http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

 Liviu




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : E-331

yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

web: yildizoglu.info

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
 able to test it), by Rob?

Yes, but it has never made its way to trunk. To my understanding the
goal of the GSoC project is to polish the outliner/corkboard code,
implement the missing bits and when ready merge with current trunk.

Liviu



 2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
  You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
  a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
  distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
  Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
  publishers.
 
 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
 http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

 Liviu




 --
 Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

 Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
 GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
 Avenue Léon Duguit
 33608 Pessac cedex
 France

 Bureau : E-331

 yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

 web: yildizoglu.info



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:59:00 +0200
Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and

Please tell the person doing the NonLinearWriting project that if he
needs to talk with an author of Discovery Fiction, he should feel free
to email me at my normal email address.

I could describe down to the smallest detail how I write nonfiction.
With fiction, all I can tell you is I get a general idea, do a lot of
walking and thinking, and on a hope and a prayer start writing, and
somehow the book gets written. That's really not much of an explanation
for a guy who is a champion of process and claims everyone should know
*how* they do things. Maybe he can learn from me, and maybe I can learn
from him.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Alan L Tyree]

Liviu Andronic writes:

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
 able to test it), by Rob?

 Yes, but it has never made its way to trunk. To my understanding the
 goal of the GSoC project is to polish the outliner/corkboard code,
 implement the missing bits and when ready merge with current trunk.

 Liviu
We might also look at 'tags' for these idea fragments. Ord-mode lets the
user attach tags to headlines. You can then search by tag and organise
views by tags. It's a powerful mechanism when you have a large number of
fragments.

Adding 'non-linear' writing tools to LyX, together with good ePub
support, would make it the killer tool for writers.

Cheers,
Alan




 2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
  You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
  a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
  distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
  Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
  publishers.
 
 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
 http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

 Liviu




 --
 Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

 Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
 GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
 Avenue Léon Duguit
 33608 Pessac cedex
 France

 Bureau : E-331

 yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

 web: yildizoglu.info


-- 
Alan L Tyree   http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206 sip:172...@iptel.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

  of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
  for :-)-O

 No he can't, with comments like
 /open source programs have great appeal for people who want to
 tinker with computers but almost none for those who actually want to
 do something./
 
 He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
 programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

He couldn't use the internet reasonably altogether, since BIND is
FOSS.

And most DNS servers are also running on FOSS operating systems, btw.

And then there are FOSS database systems such as e.g. PostgreSQL
feeding those BINDs with the data they need.

Besides all those routers and switches running firmware based on various
FOSS operating systems.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Stephen George
steve_...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
 On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

 of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
 for :-)-O

 No he can't, with comments like
 open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker with
 computers but almost none for those who actually want to do something.

 He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source programs,
 and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
 Servers are commodity-class x86 PCs running customized versions of Linux.

 Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be
 useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use
 that service.
 http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html

 In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source Apache
 dominating the HTTP internet server market
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
 Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software in
 use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all active
 websites and 58.49% of the top servers across all domains

 There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is also
 powered by an open source program.

Not to mention that he is probably surfing the web via Firefox or Chrome.

Liviu


 Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people are
 against open source programs.
 Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop and
 continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont think
 you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of outrage after
 hearing the comments)

 Steve




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Jan Ulrich Hasecke]

It is flattering to say, hey John Doe the great novelist is using LyX,
but much more important is another question.

Is LyX the right tool for a publisher who wants to publish printed books
and ebooks from the same source, which is what publishers want to do
today. At least this is what I want to do. ;-)

While there is no question concerning the typesetting quality of
LyX/LaTeX, I still have questions concerning ebooks. I listed them in
another thread.
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg95701.html

You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
publishers.

Cheers!
juh

[1] http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php


-- 
Demeter and the Commons of Being
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGPS26W
Speculative essay against loss of ancestry and the arrogation of property

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
 You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
 a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
 distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
 Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
 publishers.

This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

Liviu

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Jan Ulrich Hasecke]

Am 12.06.2013 10:59, schrieb Liviu Andronic:
 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
 You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
 a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
 distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
 Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
 publishers.

 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
 http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

Great news! There is als AFAIK a GSoC project for better ePub support.
So my dreams might come true soon.

Thanks!
juh

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
able to test it), by Rob?


2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
  You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
  a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
  distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
  Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
  publishers.
 
 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
 http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

 Liviu




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : E-331

yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

web: yildizoglu.info

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
 able to test it), by Rob?

Yes, but it has never made its way to trunk. To my understanding the
goal of the GSoC project is to polish the outliner/corkboard code,
implement the missing bits and when ready merge with current trunk.

Liviu



 2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
  You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
  a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
  distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
  Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
  publishers.
 
 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
 http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

 Liviu




 --
 Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

 Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
 GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
 Avenue Léon Duguit
 33608 Pessac cedex
 France

 Bureau : E-331

 yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

 web: yildizoglu.info



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:59:00 +0200
Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and

Please tell the person doing the NonLinearWriting project that if he
needs to talk with an author of Discovery Fiction, he should feel free
to email me at my normal email address.

I could describe down to the smallest detail how I write nonfiction.
With fiction, all I can tell you is I get a general idea, do a lot of
walking and thinking, and on a hope and a prayer start writing, and
somehow the book gets written. That's really not much of an explanation
for a guy who is a champion of process and claims everyone should know
*how* they do things. Maybe he can learn from me, and maybe I can learn
from him.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Alan L Tyree]

Liviu Andronic writes:

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
 able to test it), by Rob?

 Yes, but it has never made its way to trunk. To my understanding the
 goal of the GSoC project is to polish the outliner/corkboard code,
 implement the missing bits and when ready merge with current trunk.

 Liviu
We might also look at 'tags' for these idea fragments. Ord-mode lets the
user attach tags to headlines. You can then search by tag and organise
views by tags. It's a powerful mechanism when you have a large number of
fragments.

Adding 'non-linear' writing tools to LyX, together with good ePub
support, would make it the killer tool for writers.

Cheers,
Alan




 2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 juhase...@googlemail.com wrote:
  You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
  a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
  distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
  Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
  publishers.
 
 This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
 http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
 http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

 Liviu




 --
 Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

 Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
 GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
 Avenue Léon Duguit
 33608 Pessac cedex
 France

 Bureau : E-331

 yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

 web: yildizoglu.info


-- 
Alan L Tyree   http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206 sip:172...@iptel.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

  of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
  for :-)-O

 No he can't, with comments like
 /open source programs have great appeal for people who want to
 tinker with computers but almost none for those who actually want to
 do something./
 
 He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
 programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

He couldn't use the internet reasonably altogether, since BIND is
FOSS.

And most DNS servers are also running on FOSS operating systems, btw.

And then there are FOSS database systems such as e.g. PostgreSQL
feeding those BINDs with the data they need.

Besides all those routers and switches running firmware based on various
FOSS operating systems.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Stephen George
 wrote:
> On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:
>
> of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
> for :-)-O
>
> No he can't, with comments like
> "open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker with
> computers but almost none for those who actually want to do something."
>
> He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source programs,
> and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
> "Servers are commodity-class x86 PCs running customized versions of Linux."
>
> Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be
> useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use
> that service.
> http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html
>
> In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source Apache
> dominating the HTTP internet server market
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
> "Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software in
> use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all active
> websites and 58.49% of the top servers across all domains"
>
> There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is also
> powered by an open source program.
>
Not to mention that he is probably surfing the web via Firefox or Chrome.

Liviu


> Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people are
> against open source programs.
> Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop and
> continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont think
> you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of outrage after
> hearing the comments)
>
> Steve
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Jan Ulrich Hasecke]

It is flattering to say, hey John Doe the great novelist is using LyX,
but much more important is another question.

Is LyX the right tool for a publisher who wants to publish printed books
and ebooks from the same source, which is what publishers want to do
today. At least this is what I want to do. ;-)

While there is no question concerning the typesetting quality of
LyX/LaTeX, I still have questions concerning ebooks. I listed them in
another thread.
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg95701.html

You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
publishers.

Cheers!
juh

[1] http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.php


-- 
Demeter and the Commons of Being
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BGPS26W
Speculative essay against loss of ancestry and the arrogation of property

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
 wrote:
> You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
> a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
> distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
> Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
> publishers.
>
This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

Liviu

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Jan Ulrich Hasecke]

Am 12.06.2013 10:59, schrieb Liviu Andronic:
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
>  wrote:
>> You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
>> a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
>> distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
>> Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
>> publishers.
>>
> This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
> http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
> http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .

Great news! There is als AFAIK a GSoC project for better ePub support.
So my dreams might come true soon.

Thanks!
juh

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
able to test it), by Rob?


2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic 

> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
>  wrote:
> > You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
> > a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
> > distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
> > Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
> > publishers.
> >
> This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
> http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
> http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .
>
> Liviu
>



-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : E-331

yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr

web: yildizoglu.info

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Murat Yildizoglu  wrote:
> Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
> able to test it), by Rob?
>
Yes, but it has never made its way to trunk. To my understanding the
goal of the GSoC project is to polish the outliner/corkboard code,
implement the missing bits and when ready merge with current trunk.

Liviu


>
> 2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic 
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
>>  wrote:
>> > You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
>> > a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
>> > distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
>> > Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
>> > publishers.
>> >
>> This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
>> http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
>> http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .
>>
>> Liviu
>
>
>
>
> --
> Prof. Murat Yildizoglu
>
> Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
> GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
> Avenue Léon Duguit
> 33608 Pessac cedex
> France
>
> Bureau : E-331
>
> yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr
>
> web: yildizoglu.info



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 10:59:00 +0200
Liviu Andronic  wrote:

> This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
> http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and

Please tell the person doing the NonLinearWriting project that if he
needs to talk with an author of Discovery Fiction, he should feel free
to email me at my normal email address.

I could describe down to the smallest detail how I write nonfiction.
With fiction, all I can tell you is I get a general idea, do a lot of
walking and thinking, and on a hope and a prayer start writing, and
somehow the book gets written. That's really not much of an explanation
for a guy who is a champion of process and claims everyone should know
*how* they do things. Maybe he can learn from me, and maybe I can learn
from him.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Alan L Tyree]

Liviu Andronic writes:

> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Murat Yildizoglu  wrote:
>> Isn't there already a working corkboard tool for Lyx (but I have never been
>> able to test it), by Rob?
>>
> Yes, but it has never made its way to trunk. To my understanding the
> goal of the GSoC project is to polish the outliner/corkboard code,
> implement the missing bits and when ready merge with current trunk.
>
> Liviu
We might also look at 'tags' for these idea fragments. Ord-mode lets the
user attach tags to headlines. You can then search by tag and organise
views by tags. It's a powerful mechanism when you have a large number of
fragments.

Adding 'non-linear' writing tools to LyX, together with good ePub
support, would make it the killer tool for writers.

Cheers,
Alan

>
>
>>
>> 2013/6/12 Liviu Andronic 
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Jan Ulrich Hasecke
>>>  wrote:
>>> > You can write a bestseller with a pencil or with vim/emacs. LyX could be
>>> > a publishing environment producing high quality pdfs and ePubs ready for
>>> > distribution. Our target group are not authors (have a look at
>>> > Scrivener[1] to see what a program looks like that targets authors) but
>>> > publishers.
>>> >
>>> This is the goal of one of our GSoC projects this year:
>>> http://wiki.lyx.org/GSoC/NonLinearWriting and
>>> http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/SummerOfCode2013Ideas#toc5 .
>>>
>>> Liviu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Prof. Murat Yildizoglu
>>
>> Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
>> GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
>> Avenue Léon Duguit
>> 33608 Pessac cedex
>> France
>>
>> Bureau : E-331
>>
>> yildi-at-u-bordeaux4.fr
>>
>> web: yildizoglu.info


-- 
Alan L Tyree   http://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206 sip:172...@iptel.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

> > of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
> > for :-)-O

> No he can't, with comments like
> /"open source programs have great appeal for people who want to
> tinker with computers but almost none for those who actually want to
> do something."/
> 
> He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
> programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

He couldn't use "the internet" reasonably altogether, since BIND is
FOSS.

And most DNS servers are also running on FOSS operating systems, btw.

And then there are FOSS database systems such as e.g. PostgreSQL
feeding those BINDs with the data they need.

Besides all those routers and switches running firmware based on various
FOSS operating systems.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Steve,

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

I run a Obstetrician and Gynaecologist's practice for all documents,
letters, reports, some recreated forms, prescriptions, presentations
(beamer and recently discovered beamerposter), statistics (SWEAVE)
and typed my wife's thesis using LyX and BibDesk.

I like NeoOffice (OO on Mac), but only so that I can export to LaTeX
and from there to LyX.

However, I find it as difficult as you to convince people that they
should make it easy on themselves and produce quality output with
minimal effort :-)-O. They are just too lazy...

el


on 2013-06-09 15:36 Steve Litt said the following:
[...]
 ===
 As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions —
 none of which immediately come to mind — open source programs
 have great appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but
 almost none for those who actually want to do something.  Such
 apps tend to have butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx
 and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.  Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even
 WYSIWYG, for crying out loud.  Forewarned is forewarned.  Or
 something like that.
 ===
[...]

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

 But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
 and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
 books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
 or in the past.
 
 So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
 the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something
 with an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his
 statement, by counterexample.

First, LyX is just a GUI, a sort-of-IDE for LaTeX, even though it uses
its own file format. And you would never make a distinction between the
various LaTeX IDEs or editors or front-ends or...

Next, LaTeX (and consequently, any of the various front-ends for it) is
*the* publishing tool within the scientific world. Obviously, no one
would write pulp fiction or non-fiction bestseller books with it,
since those authors aren't scientists.

And concerning .doc as a content exchange format; During my last 25
years of experience with writing documents I have *never*, repeat
*never* seen anyone re-use from a .doc document any content beyond bare
naked unformatted raw text. Even if it was for re-use *within* MS Word.

Paste as unformatted text is the only possibility of content re-use
that the spaghetti-format of Word effectively allows. No matter what
effort you deploy in preparing templates with styles and whatnot - it
won't work, ever.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Stephen George]

On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

No he can't, with comments like
/open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker 
with computers but almost none for those who actually want to do 
something./


He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
///Servers are //commodity-class 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_computingx86 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86PCs 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer//running customized 
versions of //Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux//./


Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be 
useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use 
that service.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html

In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source 
Apache dominating the HTTP internet server market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
/Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software 
in use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all 
active //websites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Website//and 58.49% of 
the top servers across all domains//

/
There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is 
also powered by an open source program.


Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people 
are against open source programs.
Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop 
and continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont 
think you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of 
outrage after hearing the comments)


Steve

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Steve,

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

I run a Obstetrician and Gynaecologist's practice for all documents,
letters, reports, some recreated forms, prescriptions, presentations
(beamer and recently discovered beamerposter), statistics (SWEAVE)
and typed my wife's thesis using LyX and BibDesk.

I like NeoOffice (OO on Mac), but only so that I can export to LaTeX
and from there to LyX.

However, I find it as difficult as you to convince people that they
should make it easy on themselves and produce quality output with
minimal effort :-)-O. They are just too lazy...

el


on 2013-06-09 15:36 Steve Litt said the following:
[...]
 ===
 As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions —
 none of which immediately come to mind — open source programs
 have great appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but
 almost none for those who actually want to do something.  Such
 apps tend to have butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx
 and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.  Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even
 WYSIWYG, for crying out loud.  Forewarned is forewarned.  Or
 something like that.
 ===
[...]

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

 But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
 and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
 books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
 or in the past.
 
 So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
 the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something
 with an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his
 statement, by counterexample.

First, LyX is just a GUI, a sort-of-IDE for LaTeX, even though it uses
its own file format. And you would never make a distinction between the
various LaTeX IDEs or editors or front-ends or...

Next, LaTeX (and consequently, any of the various front-ends for it) is
*the* publishing tool within the scientific world. Obviously, no one
would write pulp fiction or non-fiction bestseller books with it,
since those authors aren't scientists.

And concerning .doc as a content exchange format; During my last 25
years of experience with writing documents I have *never*, repeat
*never* seen anyone re-use from a .doc document any content beyond bare
naked unformatted raw text. Even if it was for re-use *within* MS Word.

Paste as unformatted text is the only possibility of content re-use
that the spaghetti-format of Word effectively allows. No matter what
effort you deploy in preparing templates with styles and whatnot - it
won't work, ever.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Stephen George]

On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

No he can't, with comments like
/open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker 
with computers but almost none for those who actually want to do 
something./


He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
///Servers are //commodity-class 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_computingx86 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86PCs 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer//running customized 
versions of //Linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux//./


Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be 
useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use 
that service.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html

In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source 
Apache dominating the HTTP internet server market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
/Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software 
in use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all 
active //websites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Website//and 58.49% of 
the top servers across all domains//

/
There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is 
also powered by an open source program.


Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people 
are against open source programs.
Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop 
and continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont 
think you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of 
outrage after hearing the comments)


Steve

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Dr Eberhard Lisse]

Steve,

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

I run a Obstetrician and Gynaecologist's practice for all documents,
letters, reports, some recreated forms, prescriptions, presentations
(beamer and recently discovered beamerposter), statistics (SWEAVE)
and typed my wife's thesis using LyX and BibDesk.

I like NeoOffice (OO on Mac), but only so that I can export to LaTeX
and from there to LyX.

However, I find it as difficult as you to convince people that they
should make it easy on themselves and produce quality output with
minimal effort :-)-O. They are just too lazy...

el


on 2013-06-09 15:36 Steve Litt said the following:
[...]
> ===
> "As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions —
> none of which immediately come to mind — open source programs
> have great appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but
> almost none for those who actually want to do something.  Such
> apps tend to have butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx
> and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.  Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even
> WYSIWYG, for crying out loud.  Forewarned is forewarned.  Or
> something like that."
> ===
[...]

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Wolfgang Keller]

> But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
> and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
> books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
> or in the past.
> 
> So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
> the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something
> with an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his
> statement, by counterexample.

First, LyX is just a GUI, a sort-of-IDE for LaTeX, even though it uses
its own file format. And you would never make a distinction between the
various LaTeX IDEs or editors or front-ends or...

Next, LaTeX (and consequently, any of the various front-ends for it) is
*the* publishing tool within the scientific world. Obviously, no one
would write pulp fiction or non-fiction "bestseller" books with it,
since those authors aren't scientists.

And concerning .doc as a content exchange format; During my last 25
years of experience with writing documents I have *never*, repeat
*never* seen anyone re-use from a .doc document any content beyond bare
naked unformatted raw text. Even if it was for re-use *within* MS Word.

"Paste as unformatted text" is the only possibility of content re-use
that the spaghetti-format of Word effectively allows. No matter what
effort you deploy in preparing templates with styles and whatnot - it
won't work, ever.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Stephen George]

On 12/06/2013 1:02 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

of course he's right, but then he can google what DILLIGAF stands
for :-)-O

No he can't, with comments like
/"open source programs have great appeal for people who want to tinker 
with computers but almost none for those who actually want to do 
something."/


He would not be able to use Google as it is running open source 
programs, and he wouldn't use it as it's against his principles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
/"//Servers are //commodity-class 
x86 
PCs 
//running customized 
versions of //Linux //."/


Further to that, finding a book with good amazon ranking would also be 
useless, as Amazon is also running open source, so he also would NOT use 
that service.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-275155.html

In fact he probably doesn't do much web surfing with the open source 
Apache dominating the HTTP internet server market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_HTTP_Server
/"Since April 1996 Apache has been the most popular HTTP server software 
in use. As of December 2012 Apache was estimated to serve 63.7% of all 
active //websites //and 58.49% of 
the top servers across all domains"//

/
There is a big chance the writers forum were he made those comments is 
also powered by an open source program.


Sorry for the outburst, I just can't believe how polarised some people 
are against open source programs.
Personally I dont think you should feed him with fuel, just let it drop 
and continue on with your own life using the programs you enjoy, I dont 
think you have anything to prove. (but I do understand the sense of 
outrage after hearing the comments)


Steve

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[John Kane]

 
What kind of  books does he write?  If
it's pure text then he probably does not need the power of LyX but on
the other hand if he's doing something complicated like writing
technical books then you can laugh  if he's doing it in Word.  And
come to think of it. if it's pure prose then he does not need WYSIWYG
anyway.

I would not expect many mainstream
writers of novels and  gardening books to use LyX just as they
probably don't use LaTeX.  They would be unlikely to have had any
acquaintance with the tools of technical writing and so not even know
they exist. When the most complicated layout you ever need is an MLA
template for first year English you don't usually turn to LaTeX or
LyX. Their instructors won't know about it and so they cannot suggest
it. 

Even if LyX were the best tool for the
job authors can get by with what they know and may not even realise
there is a better way or just don't see a reason to put themselves
out for what they may perceive as small gains.  After you have seen
intelligent people write CVs in Lotus123 and Excel you can expect
anything.

Your best-seller author probably is
arguing from a  position of absolute and invincible ignorance.  He's
probably right but for the wrong reasons.

You might want to look at  the best
non-fiction sellers at Amazon's best-sellers' list. The first one is
The Algebra Survival Guide Workbook by Josh Rappaport  It might be a
LyX or LaTeX book. Hopefully it was not done in Word.

It's hard to know what tools authors
use to write books, most dust-jackets don't mention it. A bit of
googling seems to suggest that Neil Gaiman and J.K. Rowling use pens,
at least for a first draft. George Bernard Shaw wrote everything in
Pitman Shorthand. That is definitely not WYSIWYG. 

The same thing applies for
bibliographic management.  A student at the local college told me
that she had asked her instructors (Nursing) about software for
managing references. Their answer was they knew such things existed
but had no idea of how  to find or use them.  I talked her into  
using Zotero (with Word, sob) and she's saving an hour or so per
paper in the handling of citations and reference lists.  Maybe next
year for LyX and APA6.



 From: Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 10:36:15 AM
Subject: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX
 

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions  none of
which immediately come to mind  open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that.
===

I already wrote back mocking his position and pointing out that if Open
Source got his undies that tight in a bundle, maybe there's something
interesting there, maybe everyone should try LyX, after all, it's free,
and gave the www.lyx.org URL.

But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
or in the past.

So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
by counterexample.

I'll say one more thing. A lot of writers seem to be proud of their
technophobia, and say mean and stupid stuff about LyX and other Open
Source. On their behalf, please allow *this* writer to apologize.

And as always, keep up the good work producing a great book writing
software (and perhaps now a web authoring software).

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Les Denham]

On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
 simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
 a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
 marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
 out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
 house-specific graphic design project.

While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
becoming less and less relevant.

I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.

A further advantage of LyX that I have only come to appreciate in the
last year or two is that even without a specific converter LyX makes
the production of an ebook in EPUB format far easier than using a
conventional word processor. Preparing a document in Word for the
conversion is so simple that Smashwords has produced a 24,000 word
book on how to do it: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/52

Les

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Les Denham lden...@hal-pc.org wrote:

 On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
 stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
  simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
  a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
  marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
  out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
  house-specific graphic design project.

 While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
 becoming less and less relevant.


You may be right. As I said, I'm a pessimist. Yet, I've still to meet the
production editor of a major publishing house who would accept a manuscript
in LyX or Latex formats. Whereas I've met editors willing to accept a
*paper* manuscript and have it retyped in Word.


 I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
 produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
 Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
 detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
 contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.


I guess that's the very reason why we all use LyX. I certainly wouldn't be
as productive in Word. But those of us working in the Humanities (at least
some Humanities) then have to budget some time to convert the output to
Word. Nothing else is accepted. I tend to think best-sellers authors'
position is closer to us than to a physicist's, a mathematician's or a
logician's. That's why a minimal and yet reliable LyX-to-Doc converter---a
topic we've repeatedly discussed on the list---would make such a difference
to the non-technical user, IMHO.



Cheers,

S.







-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[John Kane]

 
What kind of  books does he write?  If
it's pure text then he probably does not need the power of LyX but on
the other hand if he's doing something complicated like writing
technical books then you can laugh  if he's doing it in Word.  And
come to think of it. if it's pure prose then he does not need WYSIWYG
anyway.

I would not expect many mainstream
writers of novels and  gardening books to use LyX just as they
probably don't use LaTeX.  They would be unlikely to have had any
acquaintance with the tools of technical writing and so not even know
they exist. When the most complicated layout you ever need is an MLA
template for first year English you don't usually turn to LaTeX or
LyX. Their instructors won't know about it and so they cannot suggest
it. 

Even if LyX were the best tool for the
job authors can get by with what they know and may not even realise
there is a better way or just don't see a reason to put themselves
out for what they may perceive as small gains.  After you have seen
intelligent people write CVs in Lotus123 and Excel you can expect
anything.

Your best-seller author probably is
arguing from a  position of absolute and invincible ignorance.  He's
probably right but for the wrong reasons.

You might want to look at  the best
non-fiction sellers at Amazon's best-sellers' list. The first one is
The Algebra Survival Guide Workbook by Josh Rappaport  It might be a
LyX or LaTeX book. Hopefully it was not done in Word.

It's hard to know what tools authors
use to write books, most dust-jackets don't mention it. A bit of
googling seems to suggest that Neil Gaiman and J.K. Rowling use pens,
at least for a first draft. George Bernard Shaw wrote everything in
Pitman Shorthand. That is definitely not WYSIWYG. 

The same thing applies for
bibliographic management.  A student at the local college told me
that she had asked her instructors (Nursing) about software for
managing references. Their answer was they knew such things existed
but had no idea of how  to find or use them.  I talked her into  
using Zotero (with Word, sob) and she's saving an hour or so per
paper in the handling of citations and reference lists.  Maybe next
year for LyX and APA6.



 From: Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org lyx-users@lists.lyx.org 
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 10:36:15 AM
Subject: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX
 

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions  none of
which immediately come to mind  open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that.
===

I already wrote back mocking his position and pointing out that if Open
Source got his undies that tight in a bundle, maybe there's something
interesting there, maybe everyone should try LyX, after all, it's free,
and gave the www.lyx.org URL.

But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
or in the past.

So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
by counterexample.

I'll say one more thing. A lot of writers seem to be proud of their
technophobia, and say mean and stupid stuff about LyX and other Open
Source. On their behalf, please allow *this* writer to apologize.

And as always, keep up the good work producing a great book writing
software (and perhaps now a web authoring software).

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Les Denham]

On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
 simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
 a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
 marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
 out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
 house-specific graphic design project.

While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
becoming less and less relevant.

I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.

A further advantage of LyX that I have only come to appreciate in the
last year or two is that even without a specific converter LyX makes
the production of an ebook in EPUB format far easier than using a
conventional word processor. Preparing a document in Word for the
conversion is so simple that Smashwords has produced a 24,000 word
book on how to do it: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/52

Les

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Les Denham lden...@hal-pc.org wrote:

 On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
 stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
  simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
  a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
  marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
  out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
  house-specific graphic design project.

 While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
 becoming less and less relevant.


You may be right. As I said, I'm a pessimist. Yet, I've still to meet the
production editor of a major publishing house who would accept a manuscript
in LyX or Latex formats. Whereas I've met editors willing to accept a
*paper* manuscript and have it retyped in Word.


 I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
 produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
 Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
 detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
 contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.


I guess that's the very reason why we all use LyX. I certainly wouldn't be
as productive in Word. But those of us working in the Humanities (at least
some Humanities) then have to budget some time to convert the output to
Word. Nothing else is accepted. I tend to think best-sellers authors'
position is closer to us than to a physicist's, a mathematician's or a
logician's. That's why a minimal and yet reliable LyX-to-Doc converter---a
topic we've repeatedly discussed on the list---would make such a difference
to the non-technical user, IMHO.



Cheers,

S.







-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[John Kane]

 
What kind of  books does he write?  If
it's pure text then he probably does not need the power of LyX but on
the other hand if he's doing something complicated like writing
technical books then you can laugh  if he's doing it in Word.  And
come to think of it. if it's pure prose then he does not need WYSIWYG
anyway.

I would not expect many mainstream
writers of novels and  gardening books to use LyX just as they
probably don't use LaTeX.  They would be unlikely to have had any
acquaintance with the tools of technical writing and so not even know
they exist. When the most complicated layout you ever need is an MLA
template for first year English you don't usually turn to LaTeX or
LyX. Their instructors won't know about it and so they cannot suggest
it. 

Even if LyX were the best tool for the
job authors can get by with what they know and may not even realise
there is a better way or just don't see a reason to put themselves
out for what they may perceive as small gains.  After you have seen
intelligent people write CVs in Lotus123 and Excel you can expect
anything.

Your best-seller author probably is
arguing from a  position of absolute and invincible ignorance.  He's
probably right but for the wrong reasons.

You might want to look at  the best
non-fiction sellers at Amazon's best-sellers' list. The first one is
The Algebra Survival Guide Workbook by Josh Rappaport  It might be a
LyX or LaTeX book. Hopefully it was not done in Word.

It's hard to know what tools authors
use to write books, most dust-jackets don't mention it. A bit of
googling seems to suggest that Neil Gaiman and J.K. Rowling use pens,
at least for a first draft. George Bernard Shaw wrote everything in
Pitman Shorthand. That is definitely not WYSIWYG. 

The same thing applies for
bibliographic management.  A student at the local college told me
that she had asked her instructors (Nursing) about software for
managing references. Their answer was they knew such things existed
but had no idea of how  to find or use them.  I talked her into  
using Zotero (with Word, sob) and she's saving an hour or so per
paper in the handling of citations and reference lists.  Maybe next
year for LyX and APA6.



 From: Steve Litt 
To: "lyx-users@lists.lyx.org"  
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 10:36:15 AM
Subject: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX
 

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
"As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions  none of
which immediately come to mind  open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that."
===

I already wrote back mocking his position and pointing out that if Open
Source got his undies that tight in a bundle, maybe there's something
interesting there, maybe everyone should try LyX, after all, it's free,
and gave the www.lyx.org URL.

But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
or in the past.

So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
by counterexample.

I'll say one more thing. A lot of writers seem to be proud of their
technophobia, and say mean and stupid stuff about LyX and other Open
Source. On their behalf, please allow *this* writer to apologize.

And as always, keep up the good work producing a great book writing
software (and perhaps now a web authoring software).

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Les Denham]

On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
stefano franchi  wrote:

> I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
> simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
> a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
> marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
> out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
> house-specific graphic design project.

While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
becoming less and less relevant.

I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.

A further advantage of LyX that I have only come to appreciate in the
last year or two is that even without a specific converter LyX makes
the production of an ebook in EPUB format far easier than using a
conventional word processor. Preparing a document in Word for the
conversion is so "simple" that Smashwords has produced a 24,000 word
book on how to do it: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/52

Les

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Les Denham  wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 10:32:20 -0500
> stefano franchi  wrote:
>
> > I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is
> > simple: more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by
> > a major commercial publishing house supported by a consistent
> > marketing effort, heavily edited by a professional editor and laid
> > out by a (team of ) typesetters according to a carefully designed
> > house-specific graphic design project.
>
> While that is the traditional definition of a best seller, it is
> becoming less and less relevant.
>

You may be right. As I said, I'm a pessimist. Yet, I've still to meet the
production editor of a major publishing house who would accept a manuscript
in LyX or Latex formats. Whereas I've met editors willing to accept a
*paper* manuscript and have it retyped in Word.


> I use LyX rather than Word (or its clones) because it allows me to
> produce a presentable document in about half the time it takes with
> Word. This is emphatically the case if it is a document requiring a
> detailed table of contents, an index, or a bibliography, or if it
> contains figures, cross-references or footnotes.
>
>
I guess that's the very reason why we all use LyX. I certainly wouldn't be
as productive in Word. But those of us working in the Humanities (at least
some Humanities) then have to budget some time to convert the output to
Word. Nothing else is accepted. I tend to think best-sellers authors'
position is closer to us than to a physicist's, a mathematician's or a
logician's. That's why a minimal and yet reliable LyX-to-Doc converter---a
topic we've repeatedly discussed on the list---would make such a difference
to the non-technical user, IMHO.



Cheers,

S.







-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

Sorry to top post, but I rather suspect that plenty of authors use
other open source programs, like LibreOffice. The truth is that, for
most writing that would produce best-sellers, you could just as soon
use Notepad, or a typewriter. The sophisticated features available
with a program like LyX, or SWP, won't help that much.

That said, one wonders what axe this person has to grind.

Richard


On 06/09/2013 10:36 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none of
which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that.
===

I already wrote back mocking his position and pointing out that if Open
Source got his undies that tight in a bundle, maybe there's something
interesting there, maybe everyone should try LyX, after all, it's free,
and gave the www.lyx.org URL.

But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
or in the past.

So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
by counterexample.

I'll say one more thing. A lot of writers seem to be proud of their
technophobia, and say mean and stupid stuff about LyX and other Open
Source. On their behalf, please allow *this* writer to apologize.

And as always, keep up the good work producing a great book writing
software (and perhaps now a web authoring software).

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.comwrote:


 So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
 the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
 an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
 by counterexample.



I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is simple:
more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by a major
commercial publishing house supported by a consistent marketing effort,
heavily edited by a professional editor and laid out by a (team of )
typesetters according to a carefully designed house-specific graphic design
project. The writer is just one element of the whole operation and she must
use tools everyone else uses (or tools that produce output everyone else
can use and viceversa). That means the writer must use microsoft word or
word-compatible software, because that the format the editor will expect,
and the doc format is what the typesetter wants when the text is inputted
into InDesign.
LyX just does not fit that scenario---unless everyone else moves to LyX and
the typesetters switch to LaTeX. It's not going to happen.

The exception is scientific publishing (Springer comes to mind), where,
until not too long ago, many publishers had embraced Latex typesetting, and
therefore made fitting LyX into their process relatively easy.

But if by best-sellers you mean the kind of books listed on the NYTimes,
then I'm afraid LyX won't have much of a chance.

Then again, I'm a pessimist by nature.

Cheers,

Stefano

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 9 June 2013 23:32, stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:




 On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.comwrote:


 So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
 the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
 an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
 by counterexample.



 I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is simple:
 more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by a major
 commercial publishing house supported by a consistent marketing effort,
 heavily edited by a professional editor and laid out by a (team of )
 typesetters according to a carefully designed house-specific graphic design
 project. The writer is just one element of the whole operation and she must
 use tools everyone else uses (or tools that produce output everyone else
 can use and viceversa). That means the writer must use microsoft word or
 word-compatible software, because that the format the editor will expect,
 and the doc format is what the typesetter wants when the text is inputted
 into InDesign.
 LyX just does not fit that scenario---unless everyone else moves to LyX
 and the typesetters switch to LaTeX. It's not going to happen.

 The exception is scientific publishing (Springer comes to mind), where,
 until not too long ago, many publishers had embraced Latex typesetting, and
 therefore made fitting LyX into their process relatively easy.

 But if by best-sellers you mean the kind of books listed on the NYTimes,
 then I'm afraid LyX won't have much of a chance.

 Then again, I'm a pessimist by nature.


I'm not much of a pessimist, but I would agree with this. Unless we we
survey the tools used by self-published bestsellers [1], we'll lose this
debate.

Traditional publishing generally means submitting a proposal, a manuscript
and then getting an advance -- no where in there do I see an incentive to
go out of your way to do anything but write.

Now, if there were publishing houses using open-source tools, I wouldn't
know, but that would be really cool.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Self-Published-Bestsellers/lm/R2UHB9O6LWN1QI

--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 10:48:40 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 
 Sorry to top post, but I rather suspect that plenty of authors use
 other open source programs, like LibreOffice. The truth is that, for
 most writing that would produce best-sellers, you could just as soon
 use Notepad, or a typewriter. The sophisticated features available
 with a program like LyX, or SWP, won't help that much.

OK, let's broaden my question to what best sellers have been written
in ANY Open Source software, even Vim?

I just really need some counterexamples to throw up once the inevitable
bullying starts.

 
 That said, one wonders what axe this person has to grind.
 

That was the exact question that came to my mind.


 
 On 06/09/2013 10:36 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy
  who really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:
 
  ===
  As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none
  of which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great
  appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none
  for those who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have
  butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp
  and Phlegm. Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out
  loud. Forewarned is forewarned. Or something like that.
  ===


SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Alan L Tyree]

On 10/06/13 00:36, Steve Litt wrote:

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none of
which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that.
===


SNIP

==
As for word processors, they have great appeal to secretaries and 
businessmen, but little appeal for a writer that actually wants to get 
something done. They have butt ugly interfaces (ribbons!!) and stupid 
names like Word, WordStar, Photoshop (!!). Why a writer would want 
WYSIWYG is incomprehensible. A writer wants tools that facilitate 
writing, the won't lose work every time you turn around, that will open 
files more than a couple of years old. You have been warned.

===

Or something like that :-).

On the other hand, there is a good argument that trolls like this, even 
best-selling trolls, should simply be ignored.


Cheers,
Alan




Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance




--
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206  sip:172...@iptel.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

Sorry to top post, but I rather suspect that plenty of authors use
other open source programs, like LibreOffice. The truth is that, for
most writing that would produce best-sellers, you could just as soon
use Notepad, or a typewriter. The sophisticated features available
with a program like LyX, or SWP, won't help that much.

That said, one wonders what axe this person has to grind.

Richard


On 06/09/2013 10:36 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none of
which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that.
===

I already wrote back mocking his position and pointing out that if Open
Source got his undies that tight in a bundle, maybe there's something
interesting there, maybe everyone should try LyX, after all, it's free,
and gave the www.lyx.org URL.

But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
or in the past.

So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
by counterexample.

I'll say one more thing. A lot of writers seem to be proud of their
technophobia, and say mean and stupid stuff about LyX and other Open
Source. On their behalf, please allow *this* writer to apologize.

And as always, keep up the good work producing a great book writing
software (and perhaps now a web authoring software).

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.comwrote:


 So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
 the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
 an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
 by counterexample.



I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is simple:
more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by a major
commercial publishing house supported by a consistent marketing effort,
heavily edited by a professional editor and laid out by a (team of )
typesetters according to a carefully designed house-specific graphic design
project. The writer is just one element of the whole operation and she must
use tools everyone else uses (or tools that produce output everyone else
can use and viceversa). That means the writer must use microsoft word or
word-compatible software, because that the format the editor will expect,
and the doc format is what the typesetter wants when the text is inputted
into InDesign.
LyX just does not fit that scenario---unless everyone else moves to LyX and
the typesetters switch to LaTeX. It's not going to happen.

The exception is scientific publishing (Springer comes to mind), where,
until not too long ago, many publishers had embraced Latex typesetting, and
therefore made fitting LyX into their process relatively easy.

But if by best-sellers you mean the kind of books listed on the NYTimes,
then I'm afraid LyX won't have much of a chance.

Then again, I'm a pessimist by nature.

Cheers,

Stefano

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas AM University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 9 June 2013 23:32, stefano franchi stefano.fran...@gmail.com wrote:




 On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.comwrote:


 So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
 the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
 an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
 by counterexample.



 I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is simple:
 more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by a major
 commercial publishing house supported by a consistent marketing effort,
 heavily edited by a professional editor and laid out by a (team of )
 typesetters according to a carefully designed house-specific graphic design
 project. The writer is just one element of the whole operation and she must
 use tools everyone else uses (or tools that produce output everyone else
 can use and viceversa). That means the writer must use microsoft word or
 word-compatible software, because that the format the editor will expect,
 and the doc format is what the typesetter wants when the text is inputted
 into InDesign.
 LyX just does not fit that scenario---unless everyone else moves to LyX
 and the typesetters switch to LaTeX. It's not going to happen.

 The exception is scientific publishing (Springer comes to mind), where,
 until not too long ago, many publishers had embraced Latex typesetting, and
 therefore made fitting LyX into their process relatively easy.

 But if by best-sellers you mean the kind of books listed on the NYTimes,
 then I'm afraid LyX won't have much of a chance.

 Then again, I'm a pessimist by nature.


I'm not much of a pessimist, but I would agree with this. Unless we we
survey the tools used by self-published bestsellers [1], we'll lose this
debate.

Traditional publishing generally means submitting a proposal, a manuscript
and then getting an advance -- no where in there do I see an incentive to
go out of your way to do anything but write.

Now, if there were publishing houses using open-source tools, I wouldn't
know, but that would be really cool.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Self-Published-Bestsellers/lm/R2UHB9O6LWN1QI

--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 10:48:40 -0400
Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 
 Sorry to top post, but I rather suspect that plenty of authors use
 other open source programs, like LibreOffice. The truth is that, for
 most writing that would produce best-sellers, you could just as soon
 use Notepad, or a typewriter. The sophisticated features available
 with a program like LyX, or SWP, won't help that much.

OK, let's broaden my question to what best sellers have been written
in ANY Open Source software, even Vim?

I just really need some counterexamples to throw up once the inevitable
bullying starts.

 
 That said, one wonders what axe this person has to grind.
 

That was the exact question that came to my mind.


 
 On 06/09/2013 10:36 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy
  who really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:
 
  ===
  As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none
  of which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great
  appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none
  for those who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have
  butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp
  and Phlegm. Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out
  loud. Forewarned is forewarned. Or something like that.
  ===


SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Alan L Tyree]

On 10/06/13 00:36, Steve Litt wrote:

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none of
which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that.
===


SNIP

==
As for word processors, they have great appeal to secretaries and 
businessmen, but little appeal for a writer that actually wants to get 
something done. They have butt ugly interfaces (ribbons!!) and stupid 
names like Word, WordStar, Photoshop (!!). Why a writer would want 
WYSIWYG is incomprehensible. A writer wants tools that facilitate 
writing, the won't lose work every time you turn around, that will open 
files more than a couple of years old. You have been warned.

===

Or something like that :-).

On the other hand, there is a good argument that trolls like this, even 
best-selling trolls, should simply be ignored.


Cheers,
Alan




Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance




--
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206  sip:172...@iptel.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Richard Heck]

Sorry to top post, but I rather suspect that plenty of authors use
other open source programs, like LibreOffice. The truth is that, for
most writing that would produce best-sellers, you could just as soon
use Notepad, or a typewriter. The sophisticated features available
with a program like LyX, or SWP, won't help that much.

That said, one wonders what axe this person has to grind.

Richard


On 06/09/2013 10:36 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
"As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none of
which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that."
===

I already wrote back mocking his position and pointing out that if Open
Source got his undies that tight in a bundle, maybe there's something
interesting there, maybe everyone should try LyX, after all, it's free,
and gave the www.lyx.org URL.

But I can tell you this guy is going to come back and say he's a great
and mighty best selling author, ask how many books have I sold. While
books provide a part of my income, I have no best sellers, either now
or in the past.

So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
by counterexample.

I'll say one more thing. A lot of writers seem to be proud of their
technophobia, and say mean and stupid stuff about LyX and other Open
Source. On their behalf, please allow *this* writer to apologize.

And as always, keep up the good work producing a great book writing
software (and perhaps now a web authoring software).

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[stefano franchi]

On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Steve Litt wrote:


> So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
> the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
> an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
> by counterexample.
>
>

I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is simple:
more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by a major
commercial publishing house supported by a consistent marketing effort,
heavily edited by a professional editor and laid out by a (team of )
typesetters according to a carefully designed house-specific graphic design
project. The writer is just one element of the whole operation and she must
use tools everyone else uses (or tools that produce output everyone else
can use and viceversa). That means the writer must use microsoft word or
word-compatible software, because that the format the editor will expect,
and the doc format is what the typesetter wants when the text is inputted
into InDesign.
LyX just does not fit that scenario---unless everyone else moves to LyX and
the typesetters switch to LaTeX. It's not going to happen.

The exception is scientific publishing (Springer comes to mind), where,
until not too long ago, many publishers had embraced Latex typesetting, and
therefore made fitting LyX into their process relatively easy.

But if by "best-sellers" you mean the kind of books listed on the NYTimes,
then I'm afraid LyX won't have much of a chance.

Then again, I'm a pessimist by nature.

Cheers,

Stefano

-- 
__
Stefano Franchi
Associate Research Professor
Department of Hispanic StudiesPh:   +1 (979) 845-2125
Texas A University  Fax:  +1 (979) 845-6421
College Station, Texas, USA

stef...@tamu.edu
http://stefano.cleinias.org

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Ray Rashif]

On 9 June 2013 23:32, stefano franchi  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
>
>
>> So, when he comes back and asks that, it would be *wonderful* to give
>> the writer's list one or more best seller books (I think something with
>> an Amazon rank of less than 5000 would do it), to refute his statement,
>> by counterexample.
>>
>>
>
> I'm willing to bet you won't find such an example. The reason is simple:
> more or less by definition a best-seller is book produced by a major
> commercial publishing house supported by a consistent marketing effort,
> heavily edited by a professional editor and laid out by a (team of )
> typesetters according to a carefully designed house-specific graphic design
> project. The writer is just one element of the whole operation and she must
> use tools everyone else uses (or tools that produce output everyone else
> can use and viceversa). That means the writer must use microsoft word or
> word-compatible software, because that the format the editor will expect,
> and the doc format is what the typesetter wants when the text is inputted
> into InDesign.
> LyX just does not fit that scenario---unless everyone else moves to LyX
> and the typesetters switch to LaTeX. It's not going to happen.
>
> The exception is scientific publishing (Springer comes to mind), where,
> until not too long ago, many publishers had embraced Latex typesetting, and
> therefore made fitting LyX into their process relatively easy.
>
> But if by "best-sellers" you mean the kind of books listed on the NYTimes,
> then I'm afraid LyX won't have much of a chance.
>
> Then again, I'm a pessimist by nature.
>

I'm not much of a pessimist, but I would agree with this. Unless we we
survey the tools used by self-published bestsellers [1], we'll lose this
debate.

Traditional publishing generally means submitting a proposal, a manuscript
and then getting an advance -- no where in there do I see an incentive to
go out of your way to do anything but write.

Now, if there were publishing houses using open-source tools, I wouldn't
know, but that would be really cool.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Self-Published-Bestsellers/lm/R2UHB9O6LWN1QI

--
GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 10:48:40 -0400
Richard Heck  wrote:

> 
> Sorry to top post, but I rather suspect that plenty of authors use
> other open source programs, like LibreOffice. The truth is that, for
> most writing that would produce best-sellers, you could just as soon
> use Notepad, or a typewriter. The sophisticated features available
> with a program like LyX, or SWP, won't help that much.

OK, let's broaden my question to "what best sellers have been written
in ANY Open Source software, even Vim?"

I just really need some counterexamples to throw up once the inevitable
bullying starts.

> 
> That said, one wonders what axe this person has to grind.
> 

That was the exact question that came to my mind.


> 
> On 06/09/2013 10:36 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy
> > who really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:
> >
> > ===
> > "As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none
> > of which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great
> > appeal for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none
> > for those who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have
> > butt ugly interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp
> > and Phlegm. Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out
> > loud. Forewarned is forewarned. Or something like that."
> > ===


SteveT

Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

Re: Anyone know of a best-seller written in LyX

[Alan L Tyree]

On 10/06/13 00:36, Steve Litt wrote:

Hi all,

On one of my writers' mailing list, after I said I used LyX, a guy who
really does have what once was a best-seller wrote this:

===
"As for Lyx, you need to know that, with very few exceptions — none of
which immediately come to mind — open source programs have great appeal
for people who want to tinker with computers but almost none for those
who actually want to do something. Such apps tend to have butt ugly
interfaces and stupid names like Lyx and Snort and Gimp and Phlegm.
Last I saw, Lyx wasn't even WYSIWYG, for crying out loud. Forewarned is
forewarned. Or something like that."
===




==
As for word processors, they have great appeal to secretaries and 
businessmen, but little appeal for a writer that actually wants to get 
something done. They have butt ugly interfaces (ribbons!!) and stupid 
names like Word, WordStar, Photoshop (!!). Why a writer would want 
WYSIWYG is incomprehensible. A writer wants tools that facilitate 
writing, the won't lose work every time you turn around, that will open 
files more than a couple of years old. You have been warned.

===

Or something like that :-).

On the other hand, there is a good argument that trolls like this, even 
best-selling trolls, should simply be ignored.


Cheers,
Alan




Steve Litt*  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance




--
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206  sip:172...@iptel.org