Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Agree.  Important to differentiate between positive tests, those sick enough to 
be admitted, and deaths.  The way the last two categories are counted hasn't 
changed much.  But doubling the number of tests will likely double the number 
of positives, at least over a short time span.  

Given the glacial speed of developing a cure, the best near-term approach is 
many infected young, healthy people (for herd immunity) while old, sick folks 
protect themselves.  Not unlike children's measles parties of an earlier era.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Mitch Haley via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2020 3:48 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: mi...@mitchellhaley.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More
> 
> On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:19 pm, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
> > I eagerly await Dan's experience but I am skeptical.  I don't see how
> > it can suck in warm outside air and exhaust even-warmer air through
> > the same duct/hose (unless it's coaxial).
> 
> The suck in is through the side of the housing, not the hose.
> It's not outside air, it's conditioned room air that you're going to throw 
> outside
> when you're done heating it, so unconditioned outside air can be sucked into
> the room through whatever leaks it can find.
> 
> Yeah, when you think about it, holy cow that sounds stupid.
> But, as I said earlier, the one in my parents' living room actually seems to 
> work,
> although I'm sure the interior humidity is much higher than it should be with 
> a
> real air conditioner.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Thanks for the explanation.  I'm still skeptical on real-world effectiveness.  
I wonder what kind of SEER or net cooling capacity these things deliver?  Using 
room air to cool the hot coil should make the supply air nice and cool at the 
expense of sucking hot, humid outside air into the space.

Maybe Dan can drill an exhaust hose hole at a location that can later support a 
mini-split?

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Mitch Haley via Mercedes
> 
> The suck in is through the side of the housing, not the hose.
> It's not outside air, it's conditioned room air that you're going to throw 
> outside
> when you're done heating it, so unconditioned outside air can be sucked into
> the room through whatever leaks it can find.
> 
> Yeah, when you think about it, holy cow that sounds stupid.
> But, as I said earlier, the one in my parents' living room actually seems to 
> work,
> although I'm sure the interior humidity is much higher than it should be with 
> a
> real air conditioner.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 The ones I've seen pull in room air and cool some, exhausting some as hot air. 
AFAIK all the air is taken from the room. Of course efficiency will be lower 
since the air that is exhausted has to be made up from somewhere

-Curt

On Sunday, July 5, 2020, 10:19:22 AM EDT, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 This is what I thought about getting to blow on my in my immediate area in the 
shop. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 5, 2020, at 6:38 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I had extremely low expectations when my parents bought one.
> Let's draw 95° air into the house, heat it up to make cold air, blow the
> hot air (and condensate from the cold air) out the tube, drawing more 95°
> moist air into the building...but surprisingly enough, it seems to work
> about as well as a window unit.
> Mitch.
> 
>> On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:27 am, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
>> Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys put one in my house as a
>> temp fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a single hose can work.
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:19 pm, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
> I eagerly await Dan's experience but I am skeptical.  I don't see how it
> can suck in warm outside air and exhaust even-warmer air through the same
> duct/hose (unless it's coaxial).

The suck in is through the side of the housing, not the hose.
It's not outside air, it's conditioned room air that you're going to throw
outside when you're done heating it, so unconditioned outside air can be
sucked into the room through whatever leaks it can find.

Yeah, when you think about it, holy cow that sounds stupid.
But, as I said earlier, the one in my parents' living room actually seems
to work, although I'm sure the interior humidity is much higher than it
should be with a real air conditioner.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I eagerly await Dan's experience but I am skeptical.  I don't see how it can 
suck in warm outside air and exhaust even-warmer air through the same duct/hose 
(unless it's coaxial).  Also, I don't see how the airflow through a 4 in hose 
can begin to match the air flow through a mini-split outdoor unit.  I just 
don't see how the physics can work.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> tyee165 via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2020 10:47 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: tyee165 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More
> 
> The thing that surprised me is that it managed to blow the condensate out and
> there was no pan to empty like on a dehumidifier.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>  Original message From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes
>  Date: 2020-07-05  06:38  (GMT-06:00) To:
> Mercedes Discussion List  Cc:
> mi...@mitchellhaley.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More I had
> extremely low expectations when my parents bought one.Let's draw 95° air
> into the house, heat it up to make cold air, blow thehot air (and condensate
> from the cold air) out the tube, drawing more 95°moist air into the
> building...but surprisingly enough, it seems to workabout as well as a window
> unit.Mitch.On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:27 am, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:>
> Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys put one in my house as a>
> temp fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a single hose can
> work.___http://www.okiebenz.co
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> change delivery options go
> to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

tyee165 via Mercedes  writes:

> The thing that surprised me is that it managed to blow the condensate
> out and there was no pan to empty like on a dehumidifier.

I had a small window unit that I used in a camper. It had no drain for
condensate. The condensor fan would dip into the accumulated condensate
from the evap and fling it up against the condensor, where it
evaporated, providing some additional cooling for the condensor and no
drips. Maybe this does something similar.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yes insulate the garage door with foam sheet to reduce the heat load. And
be sure to seal the air inlet/outlet tightly at the wall or garage door,
and seal any gaps tight at the door edge.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020, 9:47 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Sun, July 5, 2020 10:19 am, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > This is what I thought about getting to blow on my in my immediate area
> > in the shop.
>
> If you can spend most of your time where you can feel the breeze, it
> should make you feel a lot cooler for a kiloWatt or less. And it's on
> wheels so you can aim it as needed. Being tethered to a 6-10' hose puts
> limits on it though.
> Making the whole building more comfortable would cost a whole lot more.
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Sun, July 5, 2020 10:19 am, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> This is what I thought about getting to blow on my in my immediate area
> in the shop.

If you can spend most of your time where you can feel the breeze, it
should make you feel a lot cooler for a kiloWatt or less. And it's on
wheels so you can aim it as needed. Being tethered to a 6-10' hose puts
limits on it though.
Making the whole building more comfortable would cost a whole lot more.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Sun, July 5, 2020 10:41 am, tyee165 via Mercedes wrote:
> I think the single hose is actually a double hose with an inner and outer
> combined.

Some (more expensive) models have intake and exhaust, which I would assume
would need some degree of separation, or you'd just be sucking the exhaust
back in the intake.

The one my parents have is just a plain 4" exhaust. The various cracks in
the building provide the intake.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I haven’t opened it yet, so I’m not sure what the deal is with the hose. I’ll 
tear into it later today, I expect.

-D

> On Jul 5, 2020, at 10:47 AM, tyee165 via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The thing that surprised me is that it managed to blow the condensate out and 
> there was no pan to empty like on a dehumidifier.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>  Original message From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>  Date: 2020-07-05  06:38  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
> Discussion List  Cc: mi...@mitchellhaley.com Subject: 
> Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More I had extremely low expectations when my 
> parents bought one.Let's draw 95° air into the house, heat it up to make cold 
> air, blow thehot air (and condensate from the cold air) out the tube, drawing 
> more 95°moist air into the building...but surprisingly enough, it seems to 
> workabout as well as a window unit.Mitch.On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:27 am, Scott 
> Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:> Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys 
> put one in my house as a> temp fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a 
> single hose can 
> work.___http://www.okiebenz.comTo search 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

The thing that surprised me is that it managed to blow the condensate out and 
there was no pan to empty like on a dehumidifier.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-05  06:38  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List  Cc: mi...@mitchellhaley.com Subject: 
Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More I had extremely low expectations when my 
parents bought one.Let's draw 95° air into the house, heat it up to make cold 
air, blow thehot air (and condensate from the cold air) out the tube, drawing 
more 95°moist air into the building...but surprisingly enough, it seems to 
workabout as well as a window unit.Mitch.On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:27 am, Scott 
Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:> Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys 
put one in my house as a> temp fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a 
single hose can 
work.___http://www.okiebenz.comTo search 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

If you don't have a window that opens then I suggest you cut a hole in the wall 
to install it.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-05  09:29  (GMT-06:00) To: Okie Benz 
 Cc: Dan Penoff  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT 
- Mini Split and More I’m not sure how effective it would be given the volume 
fo your shop. Maybe if you cordoned off an area with a big curtain, like a 
welding curtain, or something like that it might work?I’m just trying to cool a 
roughly 20’ by 20’ garage. The one I got is rated for 400 SF, so theoretically, 
it should work. I’m not worried as much about temperature as I am about 
humidity. I also need to figure out how to vent it, as doing it under the 
partially opened garage doors opens other areas to outside air, like at the top 
of the door.More as I know it.-D> On Jul 5, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Kaleb Striplin 
via Mercedes  wrote:> > This is what I thought about 
getting to blow on my in my immediate area in the shop. > > Sent from my 
iPhone> >> On Jul 5, 2020, at 6:38 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:>> >> I had extremely low expectations when my 
parents bought one.>> Let's draw 95° air into the house, heat it up to make 
cold air, blow the>> hot air (and condensate from the cold air) out the tube, 
drawing more 95°>> moist air into the building...but surprisingly enough, it 
seems to work>> about as well as a window unit.>> Mitch.>> >>> On Sun, July 5, 
2020 3:27 am, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:>>> Be interesting to see how 
this work.  HVAC guys put one in my house as a>>> temp fix.  Didn't do much 
good.  I don't see how a single hose can work.>> >> >> 
___>> http://www.okiebenz.com>> >> To 
search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>> >> To Unsubscribe or 
change delivery options go to:>> 
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>> > > > 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

I think the single hose is actually a double hose with an inner and outer 
combined. My nephew brought one out to the cottage and it worked well 
enough.Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 Date: 2020-07-05  09:19  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List  Cc: Kaleb Striplin  
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More This is what I thought about 
getting to blow on my in my immediate area in the shop. Sent from my iPhone> On 
Jul 5, 2020, at 6:38 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
wrote:> > I had extremely low expectations when my parents bought one.> Let's 
draw 95° air into the house, heat it up to make cold air, blow the> hot air 
(and condensate from the cold air) out the tube, drawing more 95°> moist air 
into the building...but surprisingly enough, it seems to work> about as well as 
a window unit.> Mitch.> >> On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:27 am, Scott Ritchey via 
Mercedes wrote:>> Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys put one in my 
house as a>> temp fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a single hose can 
work.> > > ___> http://www.okiebenz.com> > 
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’m not sure how effective it would be given the volume fo your shop. Maybe if 
you cordoned off an area with a big curtain, like a welding curtain, or 
something like that it might work?

I’m just trying to cool a roughly 20’ by 20’ garage. The one I got is rated for 
400 SF, so theoretically, it should work. I’m not worried as much about 
temperature as I am about humidity. I also need to figure out how to vent it, 
as doing it under the partially opened garage doors opens other areas to 
outside air, like at the top of the door.

More as I know it.

-D

> On Jul 5, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is what I thought about getting to blow on my in my immediate area in 
> the shop. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 5, 2020, at 6:38 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I had extremely low expectations when my parents bought one.
>> Let's draw 95° air into the house, heat it up to make cold air, blow the
>> hot air (and condensate from the cold air) out the tube, drawing more 95°
>> moist air into the building...but surprisingly enough, it seems to work
>> about as well as a window unit.
>> Mitch.
>> 
>>> On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:27 am, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys put one in my house as a
>>> temp fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a single hose can work.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

This is what I thought about getting to blow on my in my immediate area in the 
shop. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 5, 2020, at 6:38 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I had extremely low expectations when my parents bought one.
> Let's draw 95° air into the house, heat it up to make cold air, blow the
> hot air (and condensate from the cold air) out the tube, drawing more 95°
> moist air into the building...but surprisingly enough, it seems to work
> about as well as a window unit.
> Mitch.
> 
>> On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:27 am, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
>> Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys put one in my house as a
>> temp fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a single hose can work.
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I had extremely low expectations when my parents bought one.
Let's draw 95° air into the house, heat it up to make cold air, blow the
hot air (and condensate from the cold air) out the tube, drawing more 95°
moist air into the building...but surprisingly enough, it seems to work
about as well as a window unit.
Mitch.

On Sun, July 5, 2020 3:27 am, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
> Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys put one in my house as a
> temp fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a single hose can work.


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Be interesting to see how this work.  HVAC guys put one in my house as a temp 
fix.  Didn't do much good.  I don't see how a single hose can work. 

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
> Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2020 5:24 PM
> To: Mercedes List 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More
> 
> So my HVAC engineer neighbor was over the other night and I was asking him
> about his opinion on a mini-split in the garage…
> 
> His take? Buy a portable 12,000 BTU unit and use that, forget about a mini-
> split.
> 
> I bought one at Lowe’s today. I’m going to try it out in the morning tomorrow.
> It should be a pretty wicked test, as we’ve been having 95+ degree days of 
> late
> with heat indexes approaching 100. This can also act as a backup for the house
> in the event that the house AC pukes for whatever reason - we can use it to
> cool a couple of rooms in an emergency.
> 
> I’ve got to do distributor caps, rotors and insulators on the 420E, so I’ll 
> pull it in
> early, shut the door and fire this thing up and see how it does. Not sure how
> I’m going to vent it at present, but that’s something I can work out.
> 
> He also suggested that I insulate the garage doors, too.
> 
> More as I know it.
> 
> I also bought my hybrid electric water heater. I was planning on doing this in
> August, since I just dropped $6k last week on a new AC system for the house,
> which is working quite well, I would add. While I was wandering the aisles of
> Lowe’s I went by the water heaters to see if they still had any of the one I
> wanted. They did, and it was marked down $300 from the regular $1299.
> Bought the last one they had and let them carry the paper for 18 months, too.
> 
> So maybe next weekend I’ll have the resident plumber install the new water
> heater. I already had him survey the existing setup to determine what he’ll
> need to do the job, so that’s done. Another significant decrease in energy
> consumption, *and* some cooling for the garage as well.
> 
> -D
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

We’ll see….

-D

> On Jul 4, 2020, at 7:32 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like great progress Dan.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 5:25 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes  > wrote:
> So my HVAC engineer neighbor was over the other night and I was asking him 
> about his opinion on a mini-split in the garage…
> 
> His take? Buy a portable 12,000 BTU unit and use that, forget about a 
> mini-split.
> 
> I bought one at Lowe’s today. I’m going to try it out in the morning 
> tomorrow. It should be a pretty wicked test, as we’ve been having 95+ degree 
> days of late with heat indexes approaching 100. This can also act as a backup 
> for the house in the event that the house AC pukes for whatever reason - we 
> can use it to cool a couple of rooms in an emergency.
> 
> I’ve got to do distributor caps, rotors and insulators on the 420E, so I’ll 
> pull it in early, shut the door and fire this thing up and see how it does. 
> Not sure how I’m going to vent it at present, but that’s something I can work 
> out.
> 
> He also suggested that I insulate the garage doors, too.
> 
> More as I know it.
> 
> I also bought my hybrid electric water heater. I was planning on doing this 
> in August, since I just dropped $6k last week on a new AC system for the 
> house, which is working quite well, I would add. While I was wandering the 
> aisles of Lowe’s I went by the water heaters to see if they still had any of 
> the one I wanted. They did, and it was marked down $300 from the regular 
> $1299. Bought the last one they had and let them carry the paper for 18 
> months, too.
> 
> So maybe next weekend I’ll have the resident plumber install the new water 
> heater. I already had him survey the existing setup to determine what he’ll 
> need to do the job, so that’s done. Another significant decrease in energy 
> consumption, *and* some cooling for the garage as well.
> 
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> 
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Regular 15A 120V plug. One 4” dryer vent thingy which I will run under the 
small garage door and block the rest off with some chipboard pieces I have.

-D

> On Jul 4, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Huh.  Vent: does it need one or two?  In other words, does it heat up and 
> discharge interior air or exterior air?  The kind I worked with needed 
> exterior air.
> 
> Regular electrical socket, or does it need a 30 amp or 220 socket?
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
> Jul 4, 2020 5:25:05 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes :
> 
>> So my HVAC engineer neighbor was over the other night and I was asking him 
>> about his opinion on a mini-split in the garage…
>> 
>> His take? Buy a portable 12,000 BTU unit and use that, forget about a 
>> mini-split.
>> 
>> I bought one at Lowe’s today. I’m going to try it out in the morning 
>> tomorrow. It should be a pretty wicked test, as we’ve been having 95+ degree 
>> days of late with heat indexes approaching 100. This can also act as a 
>> backup for the house in the event that the house AC pukes for whatever 
>> reason - we can use it to cool a couple of rooms in an emergency.
>> 
>> I’ve got to do distributor caps, rotors and insulators on the 420E, so I’ll 
>> pull it in early, shut the door and fire this thing up and see how it does. 
>> Not sure how I’m going to vent it at present, but that’s something I can 
>> work out.
>> 
>> He also suggested that I insulate the garage doors, too.
>> 
>> More as I know it.
>> 
>> I also bought my hybrid electric water heater. I was planning on doing this 
>> in August, since I just dropped $6k last week on a new AC system for the 
>> house, which is working quite well, I would add. While I was wandering the 
>> aisles of Lowe’s I went by the water heaters to see if they still had any of 
>> the one I wanted. They did, and it was marked down $300 from the regular 
>> $1299. Bought the last one they had and let them carry the paper for 18 
>> months, too.
>> 
>> So maybe next weekend I’ll have the resident plumber install the new water 
>> heater. I already had him survey the existing setup to determine what he’ll 
>> need to do the job, so that’s done. Another significant decrease in energy 
>> consumption, *and* some cooling for the garage as well.
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Sounds like great progress Dan.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 5:25 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
wrote:

> So my HVAC engineer neighbor was over the other night and I was asking him
> about his opinion on a mini-split in the garage…
>
> His take? Buy a portable 12,000 BTU unit and use that, forget about a
> mini-split.
>
> I bought one at Lowe’s today. I’m going to try it out in the morning
> tomorrow. It should be a pretty wicked test, as we’ve been having 95+
> degree days of late with heat indexes approaching 100. This can also act as
> a backup for the house in the event that the house AC pukes for whatever
> reason - we can use it to cool a couple of rooms in an emergency.
>
> I’ve got to do distributor caps, rotors and insulators on the 420E, so
> I’ll pull it in early, shut the door and fire this thing up and see how it
> does. Not sure how I’m going to vent it at present, but that’s something I
> can work out.
>
> He also suggested that I insulate the garage doors, too.
>
> More as I know it.
>
> I also bought my hybrid electric water heater. I was planning on doing
> this in August, since I just dropped $6k last week on a new AC system for
> the house, which is working quite well, I would add. While I was wandering
> the aisles of Lowe’s I went by the water heaters to see if they still had
> any of the one I wanted. They did, and it was marked down $300 from the
> regular $1299. Bought the last one they had and let them carry the paper
> for 18 months, too.
>
> So maybe next weekend I’ll have the resident plumber install the new water
> heater. I already had him survey the existing setup to determine what he’ll
> need to do the job, so that’s done. Another significant decrease in energy
> consumption, *and* some cooling for the garage as well.
>
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Huh.  Vent: does it need one or two?  In other words, does it heat up and 
discharge interior air or exterior air?  The kind I worked with needed exterior 
air.

Regular electrical socket, or does it need a 30 amp or 220 socket?

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

Jul 4, 2020 5:25:05 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes :

> So my HVAC engineer neighbor was over the other night and I was asking him 
> about his opinion on a mini-split in the garage…
> 
> His take? Buy a portable 12,000 BTU unit and use that, forget about a 
> mini-split.
> 
> I bought one at Lowe’s today. I’m going to try it out in the morning 
> tomorrow. It should be a pretty wicked test, as we’ve been having 95+ degree 
> days of late with heat indexes approaching 100. This can also act as a backup 
> for the house in the event that the house AC pukes for whatever reason - we 
> can use it to cool a couple of rooms in an emergency.
> 
> I’ve got to do distributor caps, rotors and insulators on the 420E, so I’ll 
> pull it in early, shut the door and fire this thing up and see how it does. 
> Not sure how I’m going to vent it at present, but that’s something I can work 
> out.
> 
> He also suggested that I insulate the garage doors, too.
> 
> More as I know it.
> 
> I also bought my hybrid electric water heater. I was planning on doing this 
> in August, since I just dropped $6k last week on a new AC system for the 
> house, which is working quite well, I would add. While I was wandering the 
> aisles of Lowe’s I went by the water heaters to see if they still had any of 
> the one I wanted. They did, and it was marked down $300 from the regular 
> $1299. Bought the last one they had and let them carry the paper for 18 
> months, too.
> 
> So maybe next weekend I’ll have the resident plumber install the new water 
> heater. I already had him survey the existing setup to determine what he’ll 
> need to do the job, so that’s done. Another significant decrease in energy 
> consumption, *and* some cooling for the garage as well.
> 
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split and More

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Nice

On 7/4/2020 4:24 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

So my HVAC engineer neighbor was over the other night and I was asking him 
about his opinion on a mini-split in the garage…

His take? Buy a portable 12,000 BTU unit and use that, forget about a 
mini-split.

I bought one at Lowe’s today. I’m going to try it out in the morning tomorrow. 
It should be a pretty wicked test, as we’ve been having 95+ degree days of late 
with heat indexes approaching 100. This can also act as a backup for the house 
in the event that the house AC pukes for whatever reason - we can use it to 
cool a couple of rooms in an emergency.

I’ve got to do distributor caps, rotors and insulators on the 420E, so I’ll 
pull it in early, shut the door and fire this thing up and see how it does. Not 
sure how I’m going to vent it at present, but that’s something I can work out.

He also suggested that I insulate the garage doors, too.

More as I know it.

I also bought my hybrid electric water heater. I was planning on doing this in 
August, since I just dropped $6k last week on a new AC system for the house, 
which is working quite well, I would add. While I was wandering the aisles of 
Lowe’s I went by the water heaters to see if they still had any of the one I 
wanted. They did, and it was marked down $300 from the regular $1299. Bought 
the last one they had and let them carry the paper for 18 months, too.

So maybe next weekend I’ll have the resident plumber install the new water 
heater. I already had him survey the existing setup to determine what he’ll 
need to do the job, so that’s done. Another significant decrease in energy 
consumption, *and* some cooling for the garage as well.

-D
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The instructions for the Pioneer units mention doing that to make it easier to 
fish the lines through as well as to assure proper drainage for the condensate 
drain.

-D

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:16 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Those lines are soft copper, you can put an easy bend in them once they are 
> through the wall. It actually helps to drill your outside hole lower than the 
> inside hole a bit, maybe an inch or so, so you can start the bend as you feed 
> the connector through the wall. 
> 
> --R
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:21 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s what  need to know. Thanks!
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:04 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I looked back but didn't find photos that would helpful.  As I recall, the 
>>> refrigerant lines on the indoor unit stuck out (on the outside) about a 
>>> foot when the indoor unit was installed on the bracket.  These "pigtails" 
>>> were terminated with the threaded cone fitting for flared tubing.
>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
>>>> Penoff via Mercedes
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 6:26 AM
>>>> To: Okie Benz 
>>>> Cc: Dan Penoff 
>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, Scott, this is great information! I guess what I was attempting to
>>>> determine as far as connections is where exactly the line set connects - 
>>>> at the
>>>> exit point of the wall unit? Do the lines go into the unit at all?
>>>> 
>>>> I’m asking because I want to be able to determine exactly how long of a 
>>>> line set
>>>> I’ll need without ending up short, if that makes sense.
>>>> 
>>>> In other words, if I was measuring for the line set, would I measure from
>>>> where the wall unit meets the wall or do the lines go into the cabinet a
>>>> distance, and if so, how far?
>>>> 
>>>> I have the flexibility to use either side for connecting the line set and 
>>>> running it
>>>> through the wall, that won’t matter.
>>>> 
>>>> I hope I’m making sense here…
>>>> 
>>>> -D
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 1:05 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The outdoor unit sucks in air from the back and blows it out the front.  I
>>>> mounted mine to the wall thinking that would keep the coils cleaner (grass
>>>> clippings, splashed mud, etc) and less susceptible to damage (like hit by a
>>>> mower).  The commercial pads are plastic now but it's easy enough to cast 
>>>> one
>>>> in place if you go that way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My Pioneer indoor unit was set up for lines to exit the right (seen from
>>>> inside) side and that's how I did mine.  Instructions say you can use the 
>>>> other
>>>> side, but I didn't try that.  The condensate drain and routing is 
>>>> important to get
>>>> right.  You don't want water to collect anywhere (more so here where it
>>>> freezes).  I enclosed the exposed outside wires in flexible conduit.  I'll 
>>>> look to
>>>> see if I have any useful photos.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:17 AM
>>>>>> To: Okie Benz 
>>>>>> Cc: Dan Penoff 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If
>>>>>> it’s on a pad it has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot
>>>>>> will have ot do with the length of the line sets that are available.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -D
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper
>>>>>> circulation. The brackets I 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Those lines are soft copper, you can put an easy bend in them once they are 
through the wall. It actually helps to drill your outside hole lower than the 
inside hole a bit, maybe an inch or so, so you can start the bend as you feed 
the connector through the wall. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 6:21 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> That’s what  need to know. Thanks!
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:04 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I looked back but didn't find photos that would helpful.  As I recall, the 
>> refrigerant lines on the indoor unit stuck out (on the outside) about a foot 
>> when the indoor unit was installed on the bracket.  These "pigtails" were 
>> terminated with the threaded cone fitting for flared tubing.
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
>>> Penoff via Mercedes
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 6:26 AM
>>> To: Okie Benz 
>>> Cc: Dan Penoff 
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Scott, this is great information! I guess what I was attempting to
>>> determine as far as connections is where exactly the line set connects - at 
>>> the
>>> exit point of the wall unit? Do the lines go into the unit at all?
>>> 
>>> I’m asking because I want to be able to determine exactly how long of a 
>>> line set
>>> I’ll need without ending up short, if that makes sense.
>>> 
>>> In other words, if I was measuring for the line set, would I measure from
>>> where the wall unit meets the wall or do the lines go into the cabinet a
>>> distance, and if so, how far?
>>> 
>>> I have the flexibility to use either side for connecting the line set and 
>>> running it
>>> through the wall, that won’t matter.
>>> 
>>> I hope I’m making sense here…
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 1:05 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The outdoor unit sucks in air from the back and blows it out the front.  I
>>> mounted mine to the wall thinking that would keep the coils cleaner (grass
>>> clippings, splashed mud, etc) and less susceptible to damage (like hit by a
>>> mower).  The commercial pads are plastic now but it's easy enough to cast 
>>> one
>>> in place if you go that way.
>>>> 
>>>> My Pioneer indoor unit was set up for lines to exit the right (seen from
>>> inside) side and that's how I did mine.  Instructions say you can use the 
>>> other
>>> side, but I didn't try that.  The condensate drain and routing is important 
>>> to get
>>> right.  You don't want water to collect anywhere (more so here where it
>>> freezes).  I enclosed the exposed outside wires in flexible conduit.  I'll 
>>> look to
>>> see if I have any useful photos.
>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:17 AM
>>>>> To: Okie Benz 
>>>>> Cc: Dan Penoff 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If
>>>>> it’s on a pad it has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot
>>>>> will have ot do with the length of the line sets that are available.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -D
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper
>>>>> circulation. The brackets I got for mine for some reason unclear are
>>>>> a bit short so the unit overhangs a bit. Not an issue really just kinda 
>>>>> odd.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --FT
>>>>>> Sent from iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter
>>>>>>> (not a hack
>>>>> saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

That’s what  need to know. Thanks!

-D

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:04 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I looked back but didn't find photos that would helpful.  As I recall, the 
> refrigerant lines on the indoor unit stuck out (on the outside) about a foot 
> when the indoor unit was installed on the bracket.  These "pigtails" were 
> terminated with the threaded cone fitting for flared tubing.
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
>> Penoff via Mercedes
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 6:26 AM
>> To: Okie Benz 
>> Cc: Dan Penoff 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>> 
>> Thanks, Scott, this is great information! I guess what I was attempting to
>> determine as far as connections is where exactly the line set connects - at 
>> the
>> exit point of the wall unit? Do the lines go into the unit at all?
>> 
>> I’m asking because I want to be able to determine exactly how long of a line 
>> set
>> I’ll need without ending up short, if that makes sense.
>> 
>> In other words, if I was measuring for the line set, would I measure from
>> where the wall unit meets the wall or do the lines go into the cabinet a
>> distance, and if so, how far?
>> 
>> I have the flexibility to use either side for connecting the line set and 
>> running it
>> through the wall, that won’t matter.
>> 
>> I hope I’m making sense here…
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 1:05 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The outdoor unit sucks in air from the back and blows it out the front.  I
>> mounted mine to the wall thinking that would keep the coils cleaner (grass
>> clippings, splashed mud, etc) and less susceptible to damage (like hit by a
>> mower).  The commercial pads are plastic now but it's easy enough to cast one
>> in place if you go that way.
>>> 
>>> My Pioneer indoor unit was set up for lines to exit the right (seen from
>> inside) side and that's how I did mine.  Instructions say you can use the 
>> other
>> side, but I didn't try that.  The condensate drain and routing is important 
>> to get
>> right.  You don't want water to collect anywhere (more so here where it
>> freezes).  I enclosed the exposed outside wires in flexible conduit.  I'll 
>> look to
>> see if I have any useful photos.
>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:17 AM
>>>> To: Okie Benz 
>>>> Cc: Dan Penoff 
>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If
>>>> it’s on a pad it has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot
>>>> will have ot do with the length of the line sets that are available.
>>>> 
>>>> -D
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper
>>>> circulation. The brackets I got for mine for some reason unclear are
>>>> a bit short so the unit overhangs a bit. Not an issue really just kinda 
>>>> odd.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --FT
>>>>> Sent from iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter
>>>>>> (not a hack
>>>> saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a
>>>> pro he'll have the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do
>>>> bend the lines slowly and carefully so they don't kink.  The outside
>>>> unit doesn't vibrate much but it will vibrate so route lines in a way they 
>>>> can
>> absorb vibration.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
>>>>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>>>>>> 
>>&

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I looked back but didn't find photos that would helpful.  As I recall, the 
refrigerant lines on the indoor unit stuck out (on the outside) about a foot 
when the indoor unit was installed on the bracket.  These "pigtails" were 
terminated with the threaded cone fitting for flared tubing.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
> Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 6:26 AM
> To: Okie Benz 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> 
> Thanks, Scott, this is great information! I guess what I was attempting to
> determine as far as connections is where exactly the line set connects - at 
> the
> exit point of the wall unit? Do the lines go into the unit at all?
> 
> I’m asking because I want to be able to determine exactly how long of a line 
> set
> I’ll need without ending up short, if that makes sense.
> 
> In other words, if I was measuring for the line set, would I measure from
> where the wall unit meets the wall or do the lines go into the cabinet a
> distance, and if so, how far?
> 
> I have the flexibility to use either side for connecting the line set and 
> running it
> through the wall, that won’t matter.
> 
> I hope I’m making sense here…
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Jun 30, 2020, at 1:05 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >
> > The outdoor unit sucks in air from the back and blows it out the front.  I
> mounted mine to the wall thinking that would keep the coils cleaner (grass
> clippings, splashed mud, etc) and less susceptible to damage (like hit by a
> mower).  The commercial pads are plastic now but it's easy enough to cast one
> in place if you go that way.
> >
> > My Pioneer indoor unit was set up for lines to exit the right (seen from
> inside) side and that's how I did mine.  Instructions say you can use the 
> other
> side, but I didn't try that.  The condensate drain and routing is important 
> to get
> right.  You don't want water to collect anywhere (more so here where it
> freezes).  I enclosed the exposed outside wires in flexible conduit.  I'll 
> look to
> see if I have any useful photos.
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:17 AM
> >> To: Okie Benz 
> >> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> >>
> >> Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If
> >> it’s on a pad it has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot
> >> will have ot do with the length of the line sets that are available.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper
> >> circulation. The brackets I got for mine for some reason unclear are
> >> a bit short so the unit overhangs a bit. Not an issue really just kinda 
> >> odd.
> >>>
> >>> --FT
> >>> Sent from iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter
> >>>> (not a hack
> >> saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a
> >> pro he'll have the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do
> >> bend the lines slowly and carefully so they don't kink.  The outside
> >> unit doesn't vibrate much but it will vibrate so route lines in a way they 
> >> can
> absorb vibration.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
> >>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> >>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> >>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down
> >>>> the
> >> wall a few feet to take up the extra length?
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, June 28, 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Tue, June 30, 2020 1:05 am, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
> I enclosed the exposed outside wires in
> flexible conduit.  I'll look to see if I have any useful photos.

I wrapped the foam insulation in special tape to protect it from
sun/weather (can't remember the name for it and am having no luck looking
it up at store I bought it from, but it's super thick 2" wide vinyl
electrical tape made for outdoor use), and ran the outdoor rated Romex
through the wall taped to the line insulation.

With the mini split, the lineset and electrical entered the unit at the
same place, so I located the disconnect next to the lineset, ran the wire
in/out of the disconnect with Romex clamps (remember, it was
burial/outdoor rated Romex), and ran it back under the tape as it entered
the unit.
https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/conduit-conduit-fittings-raceways/conduit-fittings/sigma-proconnex-trade-3-4-nm-connector-2-pack/18104/p-130899446-c-9538.htm

With the central air, I used 'liquid tite' to run the wires in. Ran them
through the wall taped to the lineset insulation, taped the liquid tite to
the line insulation to seal it at that end, and terminated it at the
disconnect and condenser with the proper end fittings.
https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/conduit-conduit-fittings-raceways/conduit/southwire-1-2-non-metallic-whip-kit-w-straight-90-degree-fittings-6/58004507/p-142908440-c-6423.htm

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/conduit-conduit-fittings-raceways/conduit-fittings/sigma-proconnex-trade-nm-straight-liquid-tight-connector/49460/p-130922178-c-9538.htm

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

My Fuji, like Scott's unit, had 18" lines on the  right side of wall
cassette. Two places to run them through the wall behind it, barely
reached the left spot, ran more than a foot down the wall if you used the
right spot. Also a couple places to knock out a piece of plastic housing
and run them down the wall instead of in the wall. Less attractive, but
easier.
In my living room, I had the cassette mounted on the shared garage wall,
so I cut out a section of drywall in the garage to make it easy to work
inside the wall.

On Tue, June 30, 2020 6:26 am, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> Thanks, Scott, this is great information! I guess what I was attempting
> to determine as far as connections is where exactly the line set connects
> - at the exit point of the wall unit? Do the lines go into the unit at
> all?


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

the connections on my LG units are on the lower right back as you face 
the front of the condenser, and the indoor units have them on the lower 
right back as well


--FT

On 6/30/20 6:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Thanks, Scott, this is great information! I guess what I was attempting to 
determine as far as connections is where exactly the line set connects - at the 
exit point of the wall unit? Do the lines go into the unit at all?

I’m asking because I want to be able to determine exactly how long of a line 
set I’ll need without ending up short, if that makes sense.

In other words, if I was measuring for the line set, would I measure from where 
the wall unit meets the wall or do the lines go into the cabinet a distance, 
and if so, how far?

I have the flexibility to use either side for connecting the line set and 
running it through the wall, that won’t matter.

I hope I’m making sense here…

-D


On Jun 30, 2020, at 1:05 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  
wrote:

The outdoor unit sucks in air from the back and blows it out the front.  I 
mounted mine to the wall thinking that would keep the coils cleaner (grass 
clippings, splashed mud, etc) and less susceptible to damage (like hit by a 
mower).  The commercial pads are plastic now but it's easy enough to cast one 
in place if you go that way.

My Pioneer indoor unit was set up for lines to exit the right (seen from 
inside) side and that's how I did mine.  Instructions say you can use the other 
side, but I didn't try that.  The condensate drain and routing is important to 
get right.  You don't want water to collect anywhere (more so here where it 
freezes).  I enclosed the exposed outside wires in flexible conduit.  I'll look 
to see if I have any useful photos.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:17 AM
To: Okie Benz 
Cc: Dan Penoff 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If it’s on a 
pad it
has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot will have ot do with the
length of the line sets that are available.

-D




On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes

 wrote:

Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper

circulation. The brackets I got for mine for some reason unclear are a bit short
so the unit overhangs a bit. Not an issue really just kinda odd.

--FT
Sent from iPhone


On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes

 wrote:

Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a hack

saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a pro he'll 
have
the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the lines slowly and
carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't vibrate much but it will
vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb vibration.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the

wall a few feet to take up the extra length?

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes

 wrote:

On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:


On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s
slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped
it to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?

It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop
might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it
might pay to download and read the install manual before you order the

lineset.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 06:26:10 -0400 Dan Penoff via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I’m asking because I want to be able to determine exactly how long of a
> line set I’ll need without ending up short, if that makes sense.
> 
> In other words, if I was measuring for the line set, would I measure
> from where the wall unit meets the wall or do the lines go into the
> cabinet a distance, and if so, how far?

I think he already answered your question, Dan.

His email of Sun, 28 Jun 2020 16:40:30 -0400 said,

> The indoor unit includes short refrigerant lines that you poke through
> the big hole when you  mount the indoor unit to the bracket.  Typically
> you carefully fold these lines (on the outside)  against the building.
> The other end of lineset attaches to these pigtails.

So if you measure from the big hole on the outside of the building to
where the connections on the condenser are, you will have a little
surplus.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Thanks, Scott, this is great information! I guess what I was attempting to 
determine as far as connections is where exactly the line set connects - at the 
exit point of the wall unit? Do the lines go into the unit at all?

I’m asking because I want to be able to determine exactly how long of a line 
set I’ll need without ending up short, if that makes sense.

In other words, if I was measuring for the line set, would I measure from where 
the wall unit meets the wall or do the lines go into the cabinet a distance, 
and if so, how far?

I have the flexibility to use either side for connecting the line set and 
running it through the wall, that won’t matter.

I hope I’m making sense here…

-D

> On Jun 30, 2020, at 1:05 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The outdoor unit sucks in air from the back and blows it out the front.  I 
> mounted mine to the wall thinking that would keep the coils cleaner (grass 
> clippings, splashed mud, etc) and less susceptible to damage (like hit by a 
> mower).  The commercial pads are plastic now but it's easy enough to cast one 
> in place if you go that way.
> 
> My Pioneer indoor unit was set up for lines to exit the right (seen from 
> inside) side and that's how I did mine.  Instructions say you can use the 
> other side, but I didn't try that.  The condensate drain and routing is 
> important to get right.  You don't want water to collect anywhere (more so 
> here where it freezes).  I enclosed the exposed outside wires in flexible 
> conduit.  I'll look to see if I have any useful photos.
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
>> Penoff via Mercedes
>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:17 AM
>> To: Okie Benz 
>> Cc: Dan Penoff 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>> 
>> Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If it’s on 
>> a pad it
>> has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot will have ot do with the
>> length of the line sets that are available.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper
>> circulation. The brackets I got for mine for some reason unclear are a bit 
>> short
>> so the unit overhangs a bit. Not an issue really just kinda odd.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a 
>>>> hack
>> saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a pro 
>> he'll have
>> the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the lines slowly 
>> and
>> carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't vibrate much but it 
>> will
>> vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb vibration.
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
>>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the
>> wall a few feet to take up the extra length?
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s
>>>>>> slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped
>>>>>> it to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
>>>>> 
>>>>> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop
>>>>> might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it
>>>>> might pay to download and read the install manual before you order the
>> lineset.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ___
>>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>>> 
>>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>>>> http://mail.oki

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

The outdoor unit sucks in air from the back and blows it out the front.  I 
mounted mine to the wall thinking that would keep the coils cleaner (grass 
clippings, splashed mud, etc) and less susceptible to damage (like hit by a 
mower).  The commercial pads are plastic now but it's easy enough to cast one 
in place if you go that way.

My Pioneer indoor unit was set up for lines to exit the right (seen from 
inside) side and that's how I did mine.  Instructions say you can use the other 
side, but I didn't try that.  The condensate drain and routing is important to 
get right.  You don't want water to collect anywhere (more so here where it 
freezes).  I enclosed the exposed outside wires in flexible conduit.  I'll look 
to see if I have any useful photos.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
> Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:17 AM
> To: Okie Benz 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> 
> Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If it’s on 
> a pad it
> has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot will have ot do with the
> length of the line sets that are available.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >
> > Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper
> circulation. The brackets I got for mine for some reason unclear are a bit 
> short
> so the unit overhangs a bit. Not an issue really just kinda odd.
> >
> > --FT
> > Sent from iPhone
> >
> >> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a 
> >> hack
> saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a pro 
> he'll have
> the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the lines slowly and
> carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't vibrate much but it 
> will
> vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb vibration.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-----
> >> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> >> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> >>
> >> Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the
> wall a few feet to take up the extra length?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s
> >>>> slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped
> >>>> it to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
> >>>
> >>> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop
> >>> might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it
> >>> might pay to download and read the install manual before you order the
> lineset.
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

But your four ton doesn't have four feet with bolt holes in them.
I would think that mini splits have to be bolted, not strapped, if the
code was updated for the existence of mini splits.

(for 'straps' on my 1.5T, I used the shipping clips that hook into the
floorpan and screw to the pallet it came on. That same pallet is part of
my wooden stand that holds it up above the snow, if there's a tornado the
house will go before the heat pump)

On Mon, June 29, 2020 1:27 pm, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> Nope. Gotta be strapped. heck, even my 4 ton condensor has to be strapped
> to its pad. Dade County code. (Dade County is Miami, and they pretty much
> lead the charge when it comes to hurricane codes for the state.)


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Nope. Gotta be strapped. heck, even my 4 ton condensor has to be strapped to 
its pad. Dade County code. (Dade County is Miami, and they pretty much lead the 
charge when it comes to hurricane codes for the state.)

-D

> On Jun 29, 2020, at 10:38 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, June 29, 2020 10:17 am, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If
>> it’s on a pad it has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot will
>> have ot do with the length of the line sets that are available.
> 
> I would think concrete pad, rubber isolators (if only to keep the steel
> feet off the concrete and rust free) and lag bolts into concrete would
> satisfy any hurricane code.
> 
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Mon, June 29, 2020 10:17 am, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If
> it’s on a pad it has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot will
> have ot do with the length of the line sets that are available.

I would think concrete pad, rubber isolators (if only to keep the steel
feet off the concrete and rust free) and lag bolts into concrete would
satisfy any hurricane code.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Yeah, I’m not sure if I’ll do a concrete pad or hang on the wall. If it’s on a 
pad it has to be strapped down for hizzicane code. A lot will have ot do with 
the length of the line sets that are available.

-D



> On Jun 29, 2020, at 9:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper 
> circulation. The brackets I got for mine for some reason unclear are a bit 
> short so the unit overhangs a bit. Not an issue really just kinda odd. 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a 
>> hack saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a 
>> pro he'll have the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the 
>> lines slowly and carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't 
>> vibrate much but it will vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb 
>> vibration.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>> 
>> Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the wall 
>> a few feet to take up the extra length?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s 
>>>> slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it 
>>>> to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
>>> 
>>> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop 
>>> might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it might 
>>> pay to download and read the install manual before you order the lineset.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Note too the outdoor unit needs to sit off the wall a bit for proper 
circulation. The brackets I got for mine for some reason unclear are a bit 
short so the unit overhangs a bit. Not an issue really just kinda odd. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a 
> hack saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a 
> pro he'll have the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the 
> lines slowly and carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't 
> vibrate much but it will vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb 
> vibration.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> 
> Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the wall 
> a few feet to take up the extra length?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s 
>>> slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it 
>>> to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
>> 
>> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop 
>> might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it might 
>> pay to download and read the install manual before you order the lineset.
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Great. Thanks for clarifying this. That’s why I was looking for a stock line 
set that I wouldn’t have to cut or flare if necessary.

I was looking at the install information for the Pioneer unit and it’s not 
clear if the line set has to come into the back of the indoor unit and follow 
the length to make the connection at one end, or if there are short lines in 
the wall unit that project out of the hole in the wall (outside) and are 
terminated at that point.

I’ve got to go back and read it closely. They talk about being able to exit the 
wall unit on either side, one being preferred over the other. 

Sorry about all the questions, I’m just trying to understand this as best as 
possible so I am 100% comfortable with doing this myself. Doesn’t look 
difficult at this point.

-D

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:40 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Correct.  The lines come with both ends flared and the b-nuts on the tube.  
> Both lines are insulated and need to be, unlike a normal central split system 
> where only the vapor line is normally insulated.  I forgot to mention that 
> the 5/16 in adapter fits a standard 1/4 inch hose fitting.  Vapor and liquid 
> are correct terminology but "high-side" and "low side" is wrong because (with 
> expansion devices in the outdoor unit) both refrigerant lines are at the same 
> pressure (low for cooling and high for heating). 
> 
> The outdoor unit has two service valves where the flared refrigerant lines 
> attach.  After evacuating the lines and indoor unit you open those valves to 
> release the R410a.  The larger one also has the fitting for the 5/16 charging 
> adapter.  As someone noted, R410a systems run at much higher pressure than 
> R22 or R12.
> 
> The indoor unit includes short refrigerant lines that you poke through the 
> big hole when you  mount the indoor unit to the bracket.  Typically you 
> carefully fold these lines (on the outside)  against the building.  The other 
> end of lineset attaches to these pigtails.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:25 PM
> To: Okie Benz 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> 
> So do you have to flare the line set no matter what? In other words, is the 
> line set not already flared with the fittings in place for the provided 
> length? Presuming that if it was and you wanted it shorter you would cut it 
> down to length and move the fittings while doing so.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a 
>> hack saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a 
>> pro he'll have the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the 
>> lines slowly and carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't 
>> vibrate much but it will vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb 
>> vibration.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
>> 
>> Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the wall 
>> a few feet to take up the extra length?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s 
>>>> slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it 
>>>> to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
>>> 
>>> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop 
>>> might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it 
>>> might pay to download and read the install manual before you order the 
>>> lineset.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Correct.  The lines come with both ends flared and the b-nuts on the tube.  
Both lines are insulated and need to be, unlike a normal central split system 
where only the vapor line is normally insulated.  I forgot to mention that the 
5/16 in adapter fits a standard 1/4 inch hose fitting.  Vapor and liquid are 
correct terminology but "high-side" and "low side" is wrong because (with 
expansion devices in the outdoor unit) both refrigerant lines are at the same 
pressure (low for cooling and high for heating). 

The outdoor unit has two service valves where the flared refrigerant lines 
attach.  After evacuating the lines and indoor unit you open those valves to 
release the R410a.  The larger one also has the fitting for the 5/16 charging 
adapter.  As someone noted, R410a systems run at much higher pressure than R22 
or R12.

The indoor unit includes short refrigerant lines that you poke through the big 
hole when you  mount the indoor unit to the bracket.  Typically you carefully 
fold these lines (on the outside)  against the building.  The other end of 
lineset attaches to these pigtails.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:25 PM
To: Okie Benz 
Cc: Dan Penoff 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

So do you have to flare the line set no matter what? In other words, is the 
line set not already flared with the fittings in place for the provided length? 
Presuming that if it was and you wanted it shorter you would cut it down to 
length and move the fittings while doing so.

-D

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a 
> hack saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a 
> pro he'll have the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the 
> lines slowly and carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't 
> vibrate much but it will vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb 
> vibration.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> 
> Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the wall 
> a few feet to take up the extra length?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s 
>>> slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it 
>>> to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
>> 
>> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop 
>> might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it 
>> might pay to download and read the install manual before you order the 
>> lineset.
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

So do you have to flare the line set no matter what? In other words, is the 
line set not already flared with the fittings in place for the provided length? 
Presuming that if it was and you wanted it shorter you would cut it down to 
length and move the fittings while doing so.

-D

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a 
> hack saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a 
> pro he'll have the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the 
> lines slowly and carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't 
> vibrate much but it will vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb 
> vibration.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> 
> Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the wall 
> a few feet to take up the extra length?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s 
>>> slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it 
>>> to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
>> 
>> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop 
>> might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it might 
>> pay to download and read the install manual before you order the lineset.
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Cutting and flaring is not that big a deal but use a tubing cutter (not a hack 
saw) and a decent flare tool (not a bargain bin tool).  If you hire a pro he'll 
have the right tools and it only takes a few minutes.  Do bend the lines slowly 
and carefully so they don't kink.  The outside unit doesn't vibrate much but it 
will vibrate so route lines in a way they can absorb vibration.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 10:43 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the wall a 
few feet to take up the extra length?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s 
>> slightly longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it 
>> to take up the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
> 
> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop 
> might be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it might 
> pay to download and read the install manual before you order the lineset.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Sun, June 28, 2020 10:20 am, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> If I get their adapter I presume I can use my automotive vacuum pump to
> pull a vacuum?

I bought an adapter and used my automotive manifold (low pressure gauge
side) and HF two stage pump. You don't want to use automotive gauges/hoses
on the high pressure side of a R410A system, but most mini splits only
have the low pressure gauge tap.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Maybe instead of looping it you can just move the outside unit down the wall a 
few feet to take up the extra length?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s slightly
>> longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it to take up
>> the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
> 
> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop might
> be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it might pay to
> download and read the install manual before you order the lineset.
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Better yet, they have it on their web site with a number of different 
installation kits:

https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/collections/all-products/products/12-000-btu-ductless-dc-inverter-mini-split-air-conditioner-heat-pump-115-vac?variant=14703001534506
 


I would have to do some measuring, but I might get away with a 10’ line set. I 
could mount the condensor higher up on the exterior wall rather than on a pad 
to decrease the distance.

If I get their adapter I presume I can use my automotive vacuum pump to pull a 
vacuum?

-D


> On Jun 28, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The Pioneer unit I was looking at had a 16’ line set included with it. I’ll 
> see if I can find the docs for it and determine if there’s a minimum length.
> 
> I’m guessing the actual length I’l need will be maybe 10-12 feet at the most.
> 
> This is one that I was considering if you can see the image - if not I’ll 
> link to it.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/201259284452836/
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s slightly
>>> longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it to take up
>>> the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
>> 
>> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop might
>> be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it might pay to
>> download and read the install manual before you order the lineset.
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The Pioneer unit I was looking at had a 16’ line set included with it. I’ll see 
if I can find the docs for it and determine if there’s a minimum length.

I’m guessing the actual length I’l need will be maybe 10-12 feet at the most.

This is one that I was considering if you can see the image - if not I’ll link 
to it.



https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/201259284452836/

Thanks!

-D

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 9:41 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s slightly
>> longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it to take up
>> the slack rather than have to cut and flare?
> 
> It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop might
> be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it might pay to
> download and read the install manual before you order the lineset.
> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On Sun, June 28, 2020 8:43 am, dan--- via Mercedes wrote:

>
> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s slightly
> longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it to take up
> the slack rather than have to cut and flare?

It shouldn't, although some possibility of oil trapping in the loop might
be there. Many units have a 15' minimum on line length, it might pay to
download and read the install manual before you order the lineset.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

You can just loop it if you don’t want to cut/flare it. I think 15’ is a 
standard “short” length. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 8:44 AM, dan--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the information, Mitch, appreciate it.
> 
> My install will be pretty straightforward. Interior unit high on side of 
> interior block (garage) wall, condensor on the outside of same wall, probably 
> 8’-10’ below the level of the interior unit. Around here code requires a 
> precast or composite pad of some sort, which I can buy from any number of 
> suppliers. If I do this myself I’ll make every effort to meet or exceed code 
> so that if I get busted inspection will go easy, as well as to give the 
> impression the install was done professionally.
> 
> On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s slightly 
> longer than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it to take up the 
> slack rather than have to cut and flare?
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jun 28, 2020, at 7:51 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> What I did to mount the outdoor unit in cold climate:
>> 3 treated 2x4s.
>> Handful of coated nails.
>> 4 lag bolts.
>> Exterior paint.
>> 
>> Cut two 2x4s in half. Paint the 4 pieces and bury them so that the tops
>> are where you want the feet of the condenser unit.
>> Cut the other 2x4 into four pieces, the long ones 4" longer than the
>> condenser, the short ones 1" longer than the condenser is wide. Paint them
>> and nail them together to make a box 1" bigger than the condenser.
>> Nail the box to the four vertical 2x4s. I set the box so that the posts
>> were 1/2" lower than the top of the box.
>> Set the condenser in the box, and screw it to the tops of the posts with
>> the lag bolts.
>> 
>> In Florida, I might make the verticals 2-3' long and bury them so that the
>> condenser sits 6-12" above ground level. No need for snow clearance or
>> putting posts below the frost line. Only worry is ripping the posts out of
>> the ground in a hurricane.
>> 
>> I located it in front of the indoor wall unit, ran a CPVC gravity drain
>> down the wall and out the side of the house, and affixed the drain pipe to
>> the outdoor uprights with PVC pipe hangers. It looks slightly silly
>> sticking out 6" past the outdoor unit, but that puts the condensate where
>> it doesn't run down along the posts.
>> At my house I had the condensate outlet dead center under the stand, which
>> looked neater.
>> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[dan--- via Mercedes]

Thanks for all the information, Mitch, appreciate it.

My install will be pretty straightforward. Interior unit high on side of 
interior block (garage) wall, condensor on the outside of same wall, probably 
8’-10’ below the level of the interior unit. Around here code requires a 
precast or composite pad of some sort, which I can buy from any number of 
suppliers. If I do this myself I’ll make every effort to meet or exceed code so 
that if I get busted inspection will go easy, as well as to give the impression 
the install was done professionally.

On thing I wondered about: If I get a pre-made line set that’s slightly longer 
than what I need, does it matter if I just looped it to take up the slack 
rather than have to cut and flare?

-D

> On Jun 28, 2020, at 7:51 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> What I did to mount the outdoor unit in cold climate:
> 3 treated 2x4s.
> Handful of coated nails.
> 4 lag bolts.
> Exterior paint.
> 
> Cut two 2x4s in half. Paint the 4 pieces and bury them so that the tops
> are where you want the feet of the condenser unit.
> Cut the other 2x4 into four pieces, the long ones 4" longer than the
> condenser, the short ones 1" longer than the condenser is wide. Paint them
> and nail them together to make a box 1" bigger than the condenser.
> Nail the box to the four vertical 2x4s. I set the box so that the posts
> were 1/2" lower than the top of the box.
> Set the condenser in the box, and screw it to the tops of the posts with
> the lag bolts.
> 
> In Florida, I might make the verticals 2-3' long and bury them so that the
> condenser sits 6-12" above ground level. No need for snow clearance or
> putting posts below the frost line. Only worry is ripping the posts out of
> the ground in a hurricane.
> 
> I located it in front of the indoor wall unit, ran a CPVC gravity drain
> down the wall and out the side of the house, and affixed the drain pipe to
> the outdoor uprights with PVC pipe hangers. It looks slightly silly
> sticking out 6" past the outdoor unit, but that puts the condensate where
> it doesn't run down along the posts.
> At my house I had the condensate outlet dead center under the stand, which
> looked neater.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

What I did to mount the outdoor unit in cold climate:
3 treated 2x4s.
Handful of coated nails.
4 lag bolts.
Exterior paint.

Cut two 2x4s in half. Paint the 4 pieces and bury them so that the tops
are where you want the feet of the condenser unit.
Cut the other 2x4 into four pieces, the long ones 4" longer than the
condenser, the short ones 1" longer than the condenser is wide. Paint them
and nail them together to make a box 1" bigger than the condenser.
Nail the box to the four vertical 2x4s. I set the box so that the posts
were 1/2" lower than the top of the box.
Set the condenser in the box, and screw it to the tops of the posts with
the lag bolts.

In Florida, I might make the verticals 2-3' long and bury them so that the
condenser sits 6-12" above ground level. No need for snow clearance or
putting posts below the frost line. Only worry is ripping the posts out of
the ground in a hurricane.

I located it in front of the indoor wall unit, ran a CPVC gravity drain
down the wall and out the side of the house, and affixed the drain pipe to
the outdoor uprights with PVC pipe hangers. It looks slightly silly
sticking out 6" past the outdoor unit, but that puts the condensate where
it doesn't run down along the posts.
At my house I had the condensate outlet dead center under the stand, which
looked neater.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Dan,  My Pioneer kit came with everything (lineset, wire, etc) needed to 
install except a line cover (recommended), wall brackets/pad, and 
disconnect/romex.  What kind of wall do you have?  Studs/sheetrock/sheething is 
easy to drill through (2 1/4 in hole) but you need to find the studs to attach 
the bracket.  Cement block is fine but harder to drill the big hole and 
tapcon-style fasteners needed.  The 110/220v wiring can be easy or hard 
depending on where to need to go to get to a breaker.  Code usually requires a 
disconnect outside very near the compressor.  There are many good how-to videos 
on YouTube.  Mechanical installation of the indoor and outdoor units id fast 
and easy unless you have oddball constraints like I did.  If you mount the 
outside unit on the wall get the kind of bracket with a horizontal bar that 
screws to the studs and brackets that slide left-right on the bar to match the 
evaporator feet (not an issue with cement block).  You'll need a quality flare 
tool if you need to cut and re-flare the refrigerant lines.

The refrigerant is in the evaporator but before releasing it into the system 
you'll want to do a leak check (preferably with dry nitrogen) and pump down the 
system with a vacuum pump (and again be sure it doesn’t leak).  In my case, my 
vacuum pump was ancient, I had no nitrogen/regulator, and no flare tool.  
That's why I hired a pro for these steps.  

If you have all the tools and no oddball considerations install is an easy one 
day job.  In my case it always seemed I needed some additional tool, drill bit, 
etc. so I probably installed in 8-10 hours spread over many days..

I am only conditioning about 600 sf but it is very leaky:  zero insulation, 
poor fitting doors, single-pane windows, and tongue and groove ceiling and 
floor (built in the 50s).  But the 1200BTU unit does fine in summer and keeps 
it above 60 degrees even when it's 20-30 degrees outside.  Unlike an old-style 
(on-off) system, it doesn't hurt (except in the wallet) to oversize there 
inverter systems because the motor speeds regulate to deliver the needed 
heat/cool.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
> Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 3:52 PM
> To: Okie Benz 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units
> 
> In my case this won’t be used a great deal, that is, maybe one day a week for 
> 6-
> 8 hours, worst case scenario. I’m not sure that dropping $1000 on even an LG
> makes sense in my case. I notice that you’ve also got to buy a lot of 
> additonal
> stuff, too, like a line set, cover for the lines, mounting pad or wall mount
> brackets for the condensor, etc…
> 
> Sounds like Scott had some luck with the Pioneer, which is one of the brands I
> see offered locally.I could probably do one of those installed for under 
> $1000.
> Considering the limited duty cycle, I’m thinking I could roll the dice on one 
> of
> these and probably come out OK.
> 
> One thing I did note - some of the cheap weird brand name mini splits
> apparently have SEER ratings in the low teens, like 13. According to one
> advertiser these are not legal for sale in the US. Interesting - gray market 
> AC
> units!
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Jun 27, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> >
> > I put a 9k Fujitsu in my living room, still needed a 5k window unit in
> > the master bedroom to sleep in the worst weather as the bedroom door was
> 30'
> > away from the heat pump. In the winter I put a thermostat in the
> > bedroom, set it at 62 for sleeping, and ran the Fujitsu to heat the
> > living room and kitchen to daytime living temps. It worked, sort of, a
> > central air heat pump is more effective but less efficient.
> >
> > I've got 1200 well insulated square feet, with a 18k heat pump and 40k
> > furnace. The fixed speed heat pump can heat the house down to about 25
> > degrees. Below that the furnace needs to take over. But with
> > electricity over 15 cents and propane under $1, I don't use the heat
> > pump at all. I figure I put about $200-250 a year worth of electricity
> > through it cooling the house, so the payback on a more efficient more
> > expensive unit would exceed the expected lifespan.
> >
> > That original Fujitsu is still working fine, currently in the master
> > bedroom of my parents' house.
> >
> > This would probably work nicely in the areas near it, but you'd
> > probably want another for the bedroom. It's the new and improved
> > version of the one I had.
> > https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujitsu-09LMAS1/p106473.html
> >
> > This would do your whole house, but it's not cheap.
> > https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujitsu-AOU

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

When I researched all this stuff, 7-8 years ago, Mitsu/Fuji were mostly
made in Japan, my Fuji was all Japanese. But more recently I've heard that
a lot of them are assembled in China, or sometimes assembled in home
country with world (China) components.

The central units, last I knew pretty much all of them had all-aluminum
coils and Copeland Scroll compressors, except for the ones with
proprietary inverter drive compressors. If it's over 18 SEER, it's PWM or
inverter drive. Most of the outdoor units were made in USA or Mexico.
Biggest failure point is the start/run capacitors.
Minor differences among the various heat pump units include demand defrost
vs timed defrost, and whether they come with block heaters and/or sound
deadening blankets. My Goodman came with a 40W (unnecessarily large IMO)
block heater, I added sound insulation and demand defrost. I shut off the
circuit breaker when it's not in use, the block heater costs a bit over a
dollar a week. I thought about replacing it with a 20W, or rewiring it to
120v/10W, but didn't bother with that. The purpose of the block heater is
to keep the compressor warmer than the indoor coil when not in use, so
that liquid refrigerant can't condense in the compressor and get into the
sump oil. If I turned it off, I turn it on 24 hours before I want to use
it, so that the block heater has time to cook the R410A out of the
compressor.

I don't know if Emerson/Copeland has gotten into the inverter market since
then or not. If they have, then the high end inverter models like
Carrier's Infinity might not be proprietary any more.



On Sat, June 27, 2020 4:43 pm, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:
> Mitch,  Thanks for the rundown.  Do you know where the big 3 are actually
>  made and where the parts come from?  As I recall the brochure for my
> Pioneer
> (years ago) said it had a Mitsubishi compressor but I see the current
> brochure shows GMCC compressors, whatever that is.  I know that many
> brands of the central ducted heat pump systems use the same parts.  I
> wondered if you had any insight if this is the case with mini-splits?


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Mitch,  Thanks for the rundown.  Do you know where the big 3 are actually
made and where the parts come from?  As I recall the brochure for my Pioneer
(years ago) said it had a Mitsubishi compressor but I see the current
brochure shows GMCC compressors, whatever that is.  I know that many brands
of the central ducted heat pump systems use the same parts.  I wondered if
you had any insight if this is the case with mini-splits?

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Mitch Haley via Mercedes
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 2:58 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: mi...@mitchellhaley.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

The big 3 were traditionally considered Daikin, Mitsubishi and Fujitsu.
The next tier is pretty much LG and LG.

The 'I like Commies' choices would have Pioneer and Gree in the top tier,
then everything else.

Daikin wasn't an option for me, as there were no gray market distribution
channels 8 years ago. That seems to have changed since they were merged with
Goodman.

At any rate, 'inverter drive' is easily worth an extra couple hundred bucks
if you use it very much.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

In my case this won’t be used a great deal, that is, maybe one day a week for 
6-8 hours, worst case scenario. I’m not sure that dropping $1000 on even an LG 
makes sense in my case. I notice that you’ve also got to buy a lot of additonal 
stuff, too, like a line set, cover for the lines, mounting pad or wall mount 
brackets for the condensor, etc…

Sounds like Scott had some luck with the Pioneer, which is one of the brands I 
see offered locally.I could probably do one of those installed for under $1000. 
Considering the limited duty cycle, I’m thinking I could roll the dice on one 
of these and probably come out OK.

One thing I did note - some of the cheap weird brand name mini splits 
apparently have SEER ratings in the low teens, like 13. According to one 
advertiser these are not legal for sale in the US. Interesting - gray market AC 
units!

-D

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I put a 9k Fujitsu in my living room, still needed a 5k window unit in the
> master bedroom to sleep in the worst weather as the bedroom door was 30'
> away from the heat pump. In the winter I put a thermostat in the bedroom,
> set it at 62 for sleeping, and ran the Fujitsu to heat the living room and
> kitchen to daytime living temps. It worked, sort of, a central air heat
> pump is more effective but less efficient.
> 
> I've got 1200 well insulated square feet, with a 18k heat pump and 40k
> furnace. The fixed speed heat pump can heat the house down to about 25
> degrees. Below that the furnace needs to take over. But with electricity
> over 15 cents and propane under $1, I don't use the heat pump at all. I
> figure I put about $200-250 a year worth of electricity through it cooling
> the house, so the payback on a more efficient more expensive unit would
> exceed the expected lifespan.
> 
> That original Fujitsu is still working fine, currently in the master
> bedroom of my parents' house.
> 
> This would probably work nicely in the areas near it, but you'd probably
> want another for the bedroom. It's the new and improved version of the one
> I had.
> https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujitsu-09LMAS1/p106473.html
> 
> This would do your whole house, but it's not cheap.
> https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujitsu-AOU24RLXFZ-2-ASU7RLF1-ASU9RLF1/p65951.html
> 
> On Sat, June 27, 2020 11:17 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>> Me three. Our aged wall unit has finally irritated the wife. I suspect we
>> can get by with something quite small, the house is only 900sq ft. Curt
> 
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I put a 9k Fujitsu in my living room, still needed a 5k window unit in the
master bedroom to sleep in the worst weather as the bedroom door was 30'
away from the heat pump. In the winter I put a thermostat in the bedroom,
set it at 62 for sleeping, and ran the Fujitsu to heat the living room and
kitchen to daytime living temps. It worked, sort of, a central air heat
pump is more effective but less efficient.

I've got 1200 well insulated square feet, with a 18k heat pump and 40k
furnace. The fixed speed heat pump can heat the house down to about 25
degrees. Below that the furnace needs to take over. But with electricity
over 15 cents and propane under $1, I don't use the heat pump at all. I
figure I put about $200-250 a year worth of electricity through it cooling
the house, so the payback on a more efficient more expensive unit would
exceed the expected lifespan.

That original Fujitsu is still working fine, currently in the master
bedroom of my parents' house.

This would probably work nicely in the areas near it, but you'd probably
want another for the bedroom. It's the new and improved version of the one
I had.
https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujitsu-09LMAS1/p106473.html

This would do your whole house, but it's not cheap.
https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujitsu-AOU24RLXFZ-2-ASU7RLF1-ASU9RLF1/p65951.html

On Sat, June 27, 2020 11:17 am, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Me three. Our aged wall unit has finally irritated the wife. I suspect we
> can get by with something quite small, the house is only 900sq ft. Curt


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

The big 3 were traditionally considered Daikin, Mitsubishi and Fujitsu.
The next tier is pretty much LG and LG.

The 'I like Commies' choices would have Pioneer and Gree in the top tier,
then everything else.

Daikin wasn't an option for me, as there were no gray market distribution
channels 8 years ago. That seems to have changed since they were merged
with Goodman.

At any rate, 'inverter drive' is easily worth an extra couple hundred
bucks if you use it very much.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

You will see different SEER ratings and prices.  SEER applies only to cooling 
performance.  If heating is important, note that heating efficiency doesn't 
vary much.  The higher SEER may not be worth the extra cost.

-Original Message-
From: Scott Ritchey 
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 2:15 PM
To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' 
Subject: RE: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

Maybe 3-5 years ago I installed a 12K "Pioneer" brand mini-split from 
https://www.highseer.com/ in my "barn."  I too used a pro connect the 
refrigerant lines and do the initial startup.  My outdoor unit is also mounted 
on the outside wall with brackets to keep it off the ground.  As I recall, the 
equipment cost $600-700 (delivered) and the "pro" charged about $100-200 for 
startup.

Lessons learned:
-  My main install problem was a tight available space with non-standard stud 
spacing.  I really had to hunt (and punch small holes) to find a location where 
the big hole missed all the studs.
 --On the outside I had to install horizontal two-by boards for the brackets, 
again the studs were in the wrong places.  The brackets must align 
(horizontally)  with the feet on the outdoor unit.
 --The "pro" routed the refrigerant lines between the wall and outdoor unit.  
When fall came leaves piled up on the lines blocking air flow.  In winter Ice 
formed around the lines blocking air flow.  The defrost cycle cleared the coils 
but I needed a heat gun or salamander to clear the ice behind the unit.  This 
year I had another "pro" come back and reroute the lines.
 -- The initial "pro" did not understand that all expansion devices are in the 
outdoor unit and insisted on installing a service port in the liquid line 
(totally unnecessary).  This appears to be a common misperception.  At some 
point the Schrader valve in that added port began leaking.
 -- The outdoor unit of my Pioneer system looks exactly like the Mitsubishi 
unit later installed at our church.  The indoor units look different.  If you 
are looking at an generic brand, it is worthwhile (IMO) to call the suppliers 
to find out who actually makes their equipment.
 -- Other than the leaking Schrader valve and ice/leaf accumulation (both now 
corrected) I have had no problems with my mini-split system (knock wood).  
 -- The plastic tubing for the condensate drain became brittle after long 
exposure to sunlight (UV).  Protect it with some sort of cover or conduit.

The outdoor unit is officially called a condenser, which is accurate during 
cooling but it becomes an evaporator during heating.  So I just call it the 
outdoor unit.
The "pros" I hired for this and other HVAC work have not been impressive.  They 
had the tools and got the job done but I would have done it with more care.
I had to cut and re-flare my refrigerant lines (way too long) and I didn't have 
a decent flare tool. That is the main reason I hired that done.
My HighSEER kit came with a tiny tube of stuff to prevent leaks at the 
refrigerant tube flare connections.  I can't swear it works but mine have never 
leaked.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:24 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Buggered Benzmail 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

I have put in 3 LG heat/cool systems, total 8 head units, ordered from AC 
Wholesalers in FL somewhere. Easy install, 20A or 30A 220V circuits. (Don’t 
forget a power shutoff at the condenser) Nothing difficult about the install if 
you can get the lines in or through the wall (2” hole) and power to the 
condenser. The only real work is drilling the line hole and running power and 
mounting the unit brackets. I hang the condenser on the outside wall because of 
storm surge flooding concerns. 

I have my AC guy come to pull down the lines and charge the system. I think for 
the warranty you need that. 

I put in a 24k BTU system with 2 12k heads last summer, I think with all the 
lines and such it was about $2200 or so plus a coupla hundred for my guy to 
spend a coupla hours fooling with it. A single unit will be much less. 

Look on their website and order one. Mitsubishi is supposedly “the best” but 
these LGs have been fine though I have fried 2 controller boards in the big 
system due to lightning hits nearby. You might consider a surge protector in 
your system somewhere. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:06 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> As my standby generator install is wrapping up and a new 4 ton Lennox AC 
> system is going into the house, I’m getting close to the point of installing 
> a mini split system to take the edge off the heat and humidity so I can work 
> in the garage without sweating buckets.
> 
> I got a quote from my AC guys for a Lennox 12,000 BTU system, which I knew 
> would be expensive - $3200 expensive. Ouch. No

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Maybe 3-5 years ago I installed a 12K "Pioneer" brand mini-split from 
https://www.highseer.com/ in my "barn."  I too used a pro connect the 
refrigerant lines and do the initial startup.  My outdoor unit is also mounted 
on the outside wall with brackets to keep it off the ground.  As I recall, the 
equipment cost $600-700 (delivered) and the "pro" charged about $100-200 for 
startup.

Lessons learned:
-  My main install problem was a tight available space with non-standard stud 
spacing.  I really had to hunt (and punch small holes) to find a location where 
the big hole missed all the studs.
 --On the outside I had to install horizontal two-by boards for the brackets, 
again the studs were in the wrong places.  The brackets must align 
(horizontally)  with the feet on the outdoor unit.
 --The "pro" routed the refrigerant lines between the wall and outdoor unit.  
When fall came leaves piled up on the lines blocking air flow.  In winter Ice 
formed around the lines blocking air flow.  The defrost cycle cleared the coils 
but I needed a heat gun or salamander to clear the ice behind the unit.  This 
year I had another "pro" come back and reroute the lines.
 -- The initial "pro" did not understand that all expansion devices are in the 
outdoor unit and insisted on installing a service port in the liquid line 
(totally unnecessary).  This appears to be a common misperception.  At some 
point the Schrader valve in that added port began leaking.
 -- The outdoor unit of my Pioneer system looks exactly like the Mitsubishi 
unit later installed at our church.  The indoor units look different.  If you 
are looking at an generic brand, it is worthwhile (IMO) to call the suppliers 
to find out who actually makes their equipment.
 -- Other than the leaking Schrader valve and ice/leaf accumulation (both now 
corrected) I have had no problems with my mini-split system (knock wood).  
 -- The plastic tubing for the condensate drain became brittle after long 
exposure to sunlight (UV).  Protect it with some sort of cover or conduit.

The outdoor unit is officially called a condenser, which is accurate during 
cooling but it becomes an evaporator during heating.  So I just call it the 
outdoor unit.
The "pros" I hired for this and other HVAC work have not been impressive.  They 
had the tools and got the job done but I would have done it with more care.
I had to cut and re-flare my refrigerant lines (way too long) and I didn't have 
a decent flare tool. That is the main reason I hired that done.
My HighSEER kit came with a tiny tube of stuff to prevent leaks at the 
refrigerant tube flare connections.  I can't swear it works but mine have never 
leaked.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:24 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Buggered Benzmail 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

I have put in 3 LG heat/cool systems, total 8 head units, ordered from AC 
Wholesalers in FL somewhere. Easy install, 20A or 30A 220V circuits. (Don’t 
forget a power shutoff at the condenser) Nothing difficult about the install if 
you can get the lines in or through the wall (2” hole) and power to the 
condenser. The only real work is drilling the line hole and running power and 
mounting the unit brackets. I hang the condenser on the outside wall because of 
storm surge flooding concerns. 

I have my AC guy come to pull down the lines and charge the system. I think for 
the warranty you need that. 

I put in a 24k BTU system with 2 12k heads last summer, I think with all the 
lines and such it was about $2200 or so plus a coupla hundred for my guy to 
spend a coupla hours fooling with it. A single unit will be much less. 

Look on their website and order one. Mitsubishi is supposedly “the best” but 
these LGs have been fine though I have fried 2 controller boards in the big 
system due to lightning hits nearby. You might consider a surge protector in 
your system somewhere. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:06 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> As my standby generator install is wrapping up and a new 4 ton Lennox AC 
> system is going into the house, I’m getting close to the point of installing 
> a mini split system to take the edge off the heat and humidity so I can work 
> in the garage without sweating buckets.
> 
> I got a quote from my AC guys for a Lennox 12,000 BTU system, which I knew 
> would be expensive - $3200 expensive. Ouch. Not an option at that price.
> 
> So I’m left with sourcing my own and having a local installer finish it out, 
> or DIY it. We’ve had these conversations here before about various brands, 
> which I would enjoy hearing the latest information anyone has in this regard, 
> but I’m also intrigued but the HUGE range of mini splits I see locally on FB 
> and Craigsli

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I have put in 3 LG heat/cool systems, total 8 head units, ordered from AC 
Wholesalers in FL somewhere. Easy install, 20A or 30A 220V circuits. (Don’t 
forget a power shutoff at the condenser) Nothing difficult about the install if 
you can get the lines in or through the wall (2” hole) and power to the 
condenser. The only real work is drilling the line hole and running power and 
mounting the unit brackets. I hang the condenser on the outside wall because of 
storm surge flooding concerns. 

I have my AC guy come to pull down the lines and charge the system. I think for 
the warranty you need that. 

I put in a 24k BTU system with 2 12k heads last summer, I think with all the 
lines and such it was about $2200 or so plus a coupla hundred for my guy to 
spend a coupla hours fooling with it. A single unit will be much less. 

Look on their website and order one. Mitsubishi is supposedly “the best” but 
these LGs have been fine though I have fried 2 controller boards in the big 
system due to lightning hits nearby. You might consider a surge protector in 
your system somewhere. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:06 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> As my standby generator install is wrapping up and a new 4 ton Lennox AC 
> system is going into the house, I’m getting close to the point of installing 
> a mini split system to take the edge off the heat and humidity so I can work 
> in the garage without sweating buckets.
> 
> I got a quote from my AC guys for a Lennox 12,000 BTU system, which I knew 
> would be expensive - $3200 expensive. Ouch. Not an option at that price.
> 
> So I’m left with sourcing my own and having a local installer finish it out, 
> or DIY it. We’ve had these conversations here before about various brands, 
> which I would enjoy hearing the latest information anyone has in this regard, 
> but I’m also intrigued but the HUGE range of mini splits I see locally on FB 
> and Craigslist. The number of manufacturers is nothing short of astounding, 
> and they sound like a day’s search through AliBabba:
> 
> Boreal
> Daikin
> Dazuki
> Everwell
> Pioneer
> Premium
> Confortotal
> Gree
> Delta
> Mirage
> Air-Con
> 
> I have to believe there are just a few companies actually making these and 
> most of what’s in this market is just being brand labeled.
> 
> I’m looking for a 9,000-12,000 BTU unit so it will run on a single (120V) 
> circuit. Install will be a piece of cake as it will be on the garage wall and 
> the condensor right outside.
> 
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Me three. Our aged wall unit has finally irritated the wife. I suspect we can 
get by with something quite small, the house is only 900sq ft.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 10:34 AM, Peter Frederick via 
Mercedes wrote:   I need this information as well, I'm 
figuring out how to set mine up.  I'm done with window units I think.
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini Split AC Units

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

I need this information as well, I'm figuring out how to set mine up.  I'm done 
with window units I think.
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

My guy charged me a service call which was like $100 to pump it down and open 
the gas 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 3:27 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Looks like they have both Mitsubishi and LG, but the LG units are more 
> plentiful and less expensive.
> 
> I need to check with my AC guy and see what he wants to do one for.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Mar 26, 2020, at 2:45 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I bought mine from AC Wholesalers, they’re in FL somewhere. Good prices. I 
>> don’t think they have Mits, I got LGs
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iPhone
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Looks like they have both Mitsubishi and LG, but the LG units are more 
plentiful and less expensive.

I need to check with my AC guy and see what he wants to do one for.

-D

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 2:45 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I bought mine from AC Wholesalers, they’re in FL somewhere. Good prices. I 
> don’t think they have Mits, I got LGs
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I bought mine from AC Wholesalers, they’re in FL somewhere. Good prices. I 
don’t think they have Mits, I got LGs

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 2:24 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Seller blew me off on the mini-split. Oh well, at least I got a pinball 
> machine.
> 
> One thing I did notice when I looked at the mine-split. If you’re a FB user 
> you know that when you look at something for sale they glom up the rest of 
> the page with similar items they find. There were TONs of mini-splits listed 
> for cheep, but all of them were funky names I hadn’t ever heard of before.
> 
> I saw 12,000 BTU AC only units for $400-$500 new. Interesting.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
>> >> wrote:
>> 
>> Cash money talks.
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have 
>>> no way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are 
>>> no longer precharged, either.
>>> 
>>> Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the 
>>> guy either counters or blows me off.
>>> 
>>> We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
 mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 >> wrote:
 
 Mitsubishi is probably the best
 
 --FT
 Sent from iPhone
 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
>>> >> 
>>> wrote:
>> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
>> because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU 
>> unit they took out of service after six months they’re looking for 
>> offers on.
>> 
>> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
>> 
>> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>>  
>> >  
>> >>   
>> >  
>> >>
>> 
>> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I 
>> can’t see it working.
>> 
>> ??
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com  
>> > >
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/  
>> > >
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  
>> >  >
>>> 
>>> 
> 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com  
 >
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/  
 >
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  
 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Seller blew me off on the mini-split. Oh well, at least I got a pinball machine.

One thing I did notice when I looked at the mine-split. If you’re a FB user you 
know that when you look at something for sale they glom up the rest of the page 
with similar items they find. There were TONs of mini-splits listed for cheep, 
but all of them were funky names I hadn’t ever heard of before.

I saw 12,000 BTU AC only units for $400-$500 new. Interesting.

-D


> > >>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
> > >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > >>> >> wrote:
> > >>> 
> > >>> Cash money talks.
> > >>> 
> > >>> --FT
> > >>> Sent from iPhone
> > >>> 
> >  On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> >  mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> >  >> wrote:
> >  
> >  I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I 
> >  have no way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and 
> >  compressor are no longer precharged, either.
> >  
> >  Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the 
> >  guy either counters or blows me off.
> >  
> >  We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
> >  
> >  -D
> >  
> > > On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
> > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > >> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Mitsubishi is probably the best
> > > 
> > > --FT
> > > Sent from iPhone
> > > 
> > >>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> > >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > >>> >> 
> > >>> wrote:
> > >> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
> > >> because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU 
> > >> unit they took out of service after six months they’re looking for 
> > >> offers on.
> > >> 
> > >> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
> > >> 
> > >> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
> > >>  
> > >>  > >>  
> > >> > > >>   
> > >>  > >>  
> > >> >>
> > >> 
> > >> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I 
> > >> can’t see it working.
> > >> 
> > >> ??
> > >> 
> > >> -D
> > >> 
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com  
> > >>  > >> >
> > >> 
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/  
> > >>  > >> >
> > >> 
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  
> > >>  > >>  >
> 
> > 
> > >> 
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com  
> > >  > > >
> > > 
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/  
> > >  > > >
> > > 
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  
> > >  > >  >
> > > 
> >  
> >  ___
> >  http://www.okiebenz.com  
> >  

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Until I can get the loader worked out I don't even have space out in the 
garage.Our garage is no place for an arcade machine either...
-Curt

On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 10:09:24 AM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I don’t either. It’s going in the garage for now. Until I can get one of these 
young adults out of the house it will remain out there I suspect.

-D

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 10:06 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> Cocktail are the least common cabinets unless you count the bar top ones. A 
> good Ms Pac-Man should run just under $1000.
> 
> I've had opportunities for pinball machines over the year but don't have 
> space for one...
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 8:01 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> Those cocktail machines are pretty common and not terribly expensive. Nothing 
> like the prices for pinball machines. Some of the really popular electronic 
> games, like Addams Family, can bring upwards of $8k-$10k, believe it or not. 
> EM machines seem to run the $1k-$2k range, which is stupid. Some really 
> popular ones, such as 4 Million B.C, for example, can get into the mid $2k 
> range. Crazy.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Mar 26, 2020, at 7:54 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Who wouldn't want a pinball machine?Actually I want a cocktail Ms. Pac-Man 
> > cabinet...
> > Curt
> > 
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> > 
> >  On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:15 PM, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >Mercedesmailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:  What 
> >in the heck do you need with a pinball machine?
> > 
> > On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy 
> >> that only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up 
> >> tomorrow. Now if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool 
> >> garage to work on the pinball machine in…
> >> 
> >> -D
> >> 
> >>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
> >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Cash money talks.
> >>> 
> >>> --FT
> >>> Sent from iPhone
> >>> 
>  On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>  
>  I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have 
>  no way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are 
>  no longer precharged, either.
>  
>  Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the 
>  guy either counters or blows me off.
>  
>  We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
>  
>  -D
>  
> > On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Mitsubishi is probably the best
> > 
> > --FT
> > Sent from iPhone
> > 
> >>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
> >> because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit 
> >> they took out of service after six months they’re looking for offers 
> >> on.
> >> 
> >> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
> >> 
> >> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
> >>   
> >>  >>  
> >> >
> >> 
> >> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I 
> >> can’t see it working.
> >> 
> >> ??
> >> 
> >> -D
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >> 
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> > 
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> > 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I don’t either. It’s going in the garage for now. Until I can get one of these 
young adults out of the house it will remain out there I suspect.

-D

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 10:06 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> Cocktail are the least common cabinets unless you count the bar top ones. A 
> good Ms Pac-Man should run just under $1000.
> 
> I've had opportunities for pinball machines over the year but don't have 
> space for one...
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 8:01 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> Those cocktail machines are pretty common and not terribly expensive. Nothing 
> like the prices for pinball machines. Some of the really popular electronic 
> games, like Addams Family, can bring upwards of $8k-$10k, believe it or not. 
> EM machines seem to run the $1k-$2k range, which is stupid. Some really 
> popular ones, such as 4 Million B.C, for example, can get into the mid $2k 
> range. Crazy.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Mar 26, 2020, at 7:54 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Who wouldn't want a pinball machine?Actually I want a cocktail Ms. Pac-Man 
> > cabinet...
> > Curt
> > 
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> > 
> >  On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:15 PM, Kaleb Striplin via 
> > Mercedesmailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:  What 
> > in the heck do you need with a pinball machine?
> > 
> > On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy 
> >> that only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up 
> >> tomorrow. Now if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool 
> >> garage to work on the pinball machine in…
> >> 
> >> -D
> >> 
> >>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
> >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Cash money talks.
> >>> 
> >>> --FT
> >>> Sent from iPhone
> >>> 
>  On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>  
>  I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have 
>  no way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are 
>  no longer precharged, either.
>  
>  Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the 
>  guy either counters or blows me off.
>  
>  We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
>  
>  -D
>  
> > On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Mitsubishi is probably the best
> > 
> > --FT
> > Sent from iPhone
> > 
> >>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
> >> because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit 
> >> they took out of service after six months they’re looking for offers 
> >> on.
> >> 
> >> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
> >> 
> >> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
> >>   
> >>  >>  
> >> >
> >> 
> >> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I 
> >> can’t see it working.
> >> 
> >> ??
> >> 
> >> -D
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >> 
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> > 
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> > 
> > 
>  
>  ___
>  http://www.okiebenz.com 
>  
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Cocktail are the least common cabinets unless you count the bar top ones. A 
good Ms Pac-Man should run just under $1000.
I've had opportunities for pinball machines over the year but don't have space 
for one...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 8:01 AM, Dan Penoff via 
Mercedes wrote:   Those cocktail machines are pretty 
common and not terribly expensive. Nothing like the prices for pinball 
machines. Some of the really popular electronic games, like Addams Family, can 
bring upwards of $8k-$10k, believe it or not. EM machines seem to run the 
$1k-$2k range, which is stupid. Some really popular ones, such as 4 Million 
B.C, for example, can get into the mid $2k range. Crazy.

-D

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 7:54 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Who wouldn't want a pinball machine?Actually I want a cocktail Ms. Pac-Man 
> cabinet...
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:15 PM, Kaleb Striplin via 
>Mercedes wrote:  What in the heck do you need with a 
>pinball machine?
> 
> On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy that 
>> only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up tomorrow. 
>> Now if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool garage to 
>> work on the pinball machine in…
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cash money talks.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have no 
 way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no 
 longer precharged, either.
 
 Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the guy 
 either counters or blows me off.
 
 We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
 
 -D
 
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mitsubishi is probably the best
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
>> because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit 
>> they took out of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
>> 
>> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
>> 
>> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t 
>> see it working.
>> 
>> ??
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Those cocktail machines are pretty common and not terribly expensive. Nothing 
like the prices for pinball machines. Some of the really popular electronic 
games, like Addams Family, can bring upwards of $8k-$10k, believe it or not. EM 
machines seem to run the $1k-$2k range, which is stupid. Some really popular 
ones, such as 4 Million B.C, for example, can get into the mid $2k range. Crazy.

-D

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 7:54 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Who wouldn't want a pinball machine?Actually I want a cocktail Ms. Pac-Man 
> cabinet...
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:15 PM, Kaleb Striplin via 
> Mercedes wrote:   What in the heck do you need with a 
> pinball machine?
> 
> On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy that 
>> only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up tomorrow. 
>> Now if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool garage to 
>> work on the pinball machine in…
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cash money talks.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have no 
 way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no 
 longer precharged, either.
 
 Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the guy 
 either counters or blows me off.
 
 We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
 
 -D
 
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mitsubishi is probably the best
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
>> because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit 
>> they took out of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
>> 
>> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
>> 
>> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t 
>> see it working.
>> 
>> ??
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Who wouldn't want a pinball machine?Actually I want a cocktail Ms. Pac-Man 
cabinet...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 10:15 PM, Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes wrote:   What in the heck do you need with a 
pinball machine?

On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy that 
> only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up tomorrow. Now 
> if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool garage to work on 
> the pinball machine in…
>
> -D
>
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Cash money talks.
>>
>> --FT
>> Sent from iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have no 
>>> way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no 
>>> longer precharged, either.
>>>
>>> Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the guy 
>>> either counters or blows me off.
>>>
>>> We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
>>>
>>> -D
>>>
 On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
  wrote:

 Mitsubishi is probably the best

 --FT
 Sent from iPhone

>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask because 
> someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit they took 
> out of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
>
> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
>
> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>  
> 
>
> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t 
> see it working.
>
> ??
>
> -D
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Don’t know about that. Maybe with electromechanical games. I don’t do the solid 
state stuff. No fun, far too complex.

Here’s a schematic for the game. Classic ladder diagram.

https://www.ipdb.org/files/1388/Williams_1971_Klondike_Schematic_Diagram_continuous.pdf
 


Not a lot of people around who can find their way through one of these any 
more. Troubleshooting at it’s best.

-D

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 6:45 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> You’re a pinball wizard
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 26, 2020, at 5:35 AM, dan--- via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I had a nice side business years ago buying and selling electromechanical 
>> pins. I’ve often had a couple around the house for entertainment, but like 
>> cars, the darned younger people with more money than brains have driven the 
>> values up, even for the old EM machines, to the point where they’re often 
>> unaffordable. That’s caused a bunch of opportunists to come out of the 
>> woodwork to buy these things up at any price to clean up (“shop”) and resell 
>> to these people.
>> 
>> Go look on your local CL under “pinball” and see how many listings there are 
>> by people who will pay “top dollar” for your old pinball game.
>> 
>> This is a nice Williams single player “Klondike” machine:
>> 
>> https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1388=66466
>> 
>> Needs to be shopped and some minor electrical repairs. Most likely just a 
>> good cleaning. Single player games are not typically as desirable as multi 
>> player games for the obvious reason, so they often command less money. I’m 
>> getting this one for $450 and once shopped and working 100% it’s probably 
>> worth around $800-$1000, maybe more. I’ll disassemble the play field, relamp 
>> everything and install new rubbers. That will cost maybe $75-$100 in parts. 
>> Everything else is labor.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 10:15 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What in the heck do you need with a pinball machine?
>>> 
> On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy 
 that only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up 
 tomorrow. Now if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool 
 garage to work on the pinball machine in…
 
 -D
 
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Cash money talks.
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have 
>> no way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are 
>> no longer precharged, either.
>> 
>> Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the 
>> guy either counters or blows me off.
>> 
>> We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mitsubishi is probably the best
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iPhone
>>> 
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
 because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit 
 they took out of service after six months they’re looking for offers 
 on.
 
 It’s an MZ-GL09NA
 
 https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
  
 
 
 I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I 
 can’t see it working.
 
 ??
 
 -D
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

You’re a pinball wizard

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 26, 2020, at 5:35 AM, dan--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I had a nice side business years ago buying and selling electromechanical 
> pins. I’ve often had a couple around the house for entertainment, but like 
> cars, the darned younger people with more money than brains have driven the 
> values up, even for the old EM machines, to the point where they’re often 
> unaffordable. That’s caused a bunch of opportunists to come out of the 
> woodwork to buy these things up at any price to clean up (“shop”) and resell 
> to these people.
> 
> Go look on your local CL under “pinball” and see how many listings there are 
> by people who will pay “top dollar” for your old pinball game.
> 
> This is a nice Williams single player “Klondike” machine:
> 
> https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1388=66466
> 
> Needs to be shopped and some minor electrical repairs. Most likely just a 
> good cleaning. Single player games are not typically as desirable as multi 
> player games for the obvious reason, so they often command less money. I’m 
> getting this one for $450 and once shopped and working 100% it’s probably 
> worth around $800-$1000, maybe more. I’ll disassemble the play field, relamp 
> everything and install new rubbers. That will cost maybe $75-$100 in parts. 
> Everything else is labor.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 10:15 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> What in the heck do you need with a pinball machine?
>> 
 On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>>> Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy 
>>> that only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up 
>>> tomorrow. Now if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool 
>>> garage to work on the pinball machine in…
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Cash money talks.
 
 --FT
 Sent from iPhone
 
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have 
> no way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no 
> longer precharged, either.
> 
> Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the 
> guy either counters or blows me off.
> 
> We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Mitsubishi is probably the best
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iPhone
>> 
 On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
>>> because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit 
>>> they took out of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
>>> 
>>> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
>>> 
>>> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I 
>>> can’t see it working.
>>> 
>>> ??
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[dan--- via Mercedes]

I had a nice side business years ago buying and selling electromechanical pins. 
I’ve often had a couple around the house for entertainment, but like cars, the 
darned younger people with more money than brains have driven the values up, 
even for the old EM machines, to the point where they’re often unaffordable. 
That’s caused a bunch of opportunists to come out of the woodwork to buy these 
things up at any price to clean up (“shop”) and resell to these people.

Go look on your local CL under “pinball” and see how many listings there are by 
people who will pay “top dollar” for your old pinball game.

This is a nice Williams single player “Klondike” machine:

https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1388=66466

Needs to be shopped and some minor electrical repairs. Most likely just a good 
cleaning. Single player games are not typically as desirable as multi player 
games for the obvious reason, so they often command less money. I’m getting 
this one for $450 and once shopped and working 100% it’s probably worth around 
$800-$1000, maybe more. I’ll disassemble the play field, relamp everything and 
install new rubbers. That will cost maybe $75-$100 in parts. Everything else is 
labor.

-D

> On Mar 25, 2020, at 10:15 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> What in the heck do you need with a pinball machine?
> 
>> On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy that 
>> only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up tomorrow. 
>> Now if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool garage to 
>> work on the pinball machine in…
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Cash money talks.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have no 
 way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no 
 longer precharged, either.
 
 Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the guy 
 either counters or blows me off.
 
 We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
 
 -D
 
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mitsubishi is probably the best
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask 
>> because someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit 
>> they took out of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
>> 
>> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
>> 
>> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t 
>> see it working.
>> 
>> ??
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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To Unsubscribe 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

What in the heck do you need with a pinball machine?

On 3/25/2020 9:12 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy that 
only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up tomorrow. Now 
if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool garage to work on 
the pinball machine in…

-D


On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Cash money talks.

--FT
Sent from iPhone


On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have no way 
of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no longer 
precharged, either.

Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the guy 
either counters or blows me off.

We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.

-D


On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Mitsubishi is probably the best

--FT
Sent from iPhone


On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask because 
someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit they took out of 
service after six months they’re looking for offers on.

It’s an MZ-GL09NA

https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
 


I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t see it 
working.

??

-D

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Just got a deal on a pinball machine I made a lowball offer on to a guy that 
only lives about four bocks away. Guess I’ll be picking that up tomorrow. Now 
if I can just get a deal on the mini-split I’ll have a cool garage to work on 
the pinball machine in…

-D

> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:25 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Cash money talks. 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have no 
>> way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no 
>> longer precharged, either.
>> 
>> Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the guy 
>> either counters or blows me off.
>> 
>> We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mitsubishi is probably the best
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> Sent from iPhone
>>> 
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
 
 Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask because 
 someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit they took 
 out of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
 
 It’s an MZ-GL09NA
 
 https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
  
 
 
 I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t 
 see it working.
 
 ??
 
 -D
 
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>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
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>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Cash money talks. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have no 
> way of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no longer 
> precharged, either.
> 
> Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the guy 
> either counters or blows me off.
> 
> We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Mitsubishi is probably the best
>> 
>> --FT
>> Sent from iPhone
>> 
 On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask because 
>>> someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit they took out 
>>> of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
>>> 
>>> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
>>> 
>>> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t 
>>> see it working.
>>> 
>>> ??
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
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>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I lowered my offer to $350, stating that since it’s not working I have no way 
of knowing if it’s functional, and the lines and compressor are no longer 
precharged, either.

Doubt that will garner any sympathy, but we’ll see. Worst thing is the guy 
either counters or blows me off.

We’ll see. I closed on the old house today, I feel lucky.

-D

> On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mitsubishi is probably the best
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask because 
>> someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit they took out 
>> of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
>> 
>> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
>> 
>> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t see 
>> it working.
>> 
>> ??
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split AC Units

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Mitsubishi is probably the best

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:58 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Did someone say Mitsubishi was a good brand of mini-split? I ask because 
> someone on my local FB Marketplace group has a 9,000 BTU unit they took out 
> of service after six months they’re looking for offers on.
> 
> It’s an MZ-GL09NA
> 
> https://hvacdirect.com/mitsubishi-mz-gl09na-9-000-btu-24-6-seer-ductless-mini-split-heat-pump.html
>  
> 
> 
> I’m thinking I should offend and offer $400. No guarantees since I can’t see 
> it working.
> 
> ??
> 
> -D
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Yes we put ours in mostly for AC but it heats to 30F. Our church just put
two units in the vicarage that heat  down to 4F which is what you might
want in Maine

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 8:32 PM Dimitri Seretakis 
wrote:

> I’m thinking about mini splits for my garage.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 14, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dan,  putting in mini splits was,best thing we did in our house. Ours
> are
> > Fujitsu. Do you know how many BTU's? I can look up specs & price for
> ours.
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > Wickford RI
> >
> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:57 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB
> >> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a
> >> set of precharged lines for $650.
> >>
> >> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
> >>
> >> -D
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I may just have my AC guys do the whole thing. I’ll see what they want for it, 
as they’ve treated me well in the past, and I’ve been a very good customer for 
them for probably 20+ years…

-D

> On Mar 14, 2020, at 9:06 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I put my units in, all the install, hooked up everything then called my AC 
> guy to pull the vacuum, check for leaks, and do the charging. Gives me the 
> warranty. Nothing exotic, easy to do. 
> 
> A cheap unit for garage is probably reasonable. 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2020, at 8:34 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Dan,  
>> That is a good price but you can get a similar new unit from several online 
>> sources for a couple hundred more.
>> I installed a 9K BTU system (1 ton is 12K BTU) in my outbuilding a couple 
>> years ago and have been happy with it.  Mine was brand name "Pioneer" bought 
>> from https://www.highseer.com/ .  The details of my outdoor unit appear 
>> identical to a Mitsubishi unit so suspect it (and many other brands) is just 
>> a relabeled version of a big name Asian product.  
>> Install is not hard, especially if you mount the outdoor unit on the ground 
>> and you have a concrete block or standard 16 or 24 inch stud wall (neither 
>> the case where I had to install mine).
>> These come in 110v and 220v so consider the available power at your location.
>> There are high efficiency units with one orifice and one electronic 
>> expansion valve and higher efficiency units with two expansion valves (like 
>> 18 vs 22 SEER).  Heating efficiency doesn't vary much.
>> Unlike a standard AC/heat pump, getting a unit that is "too big" is less of 
>> a problem because the compressor and blower will run slower to match lower 
>> heating/cooling needs.
>> You will probably need to trim (shorten) the refrigerant line set and you'll 
>> want a good flare tool for this; cheapie tools will leak.  Mine came with a 
>> tiny tune of stuff (sealant) to put on the flare connections and mine never 
>> leaked at those connections.
>> You can get prefab plastic cover kits for the exposed outside refrigerant 
>> lines, wires and condensate drain.  Worthwhile IMO for UV protection if 
>> nothing else.
>> Once everything is connected it's best to run a leak test with dry nitrogen 
>> but that requires a N2 bottle and regulator plus hose.  Then you'll need a 
>> vacuum pump to suck out the air/N2 and water vapor before releasing the 
>> refrigerant (that's stored in the outdoor unit) into the system.  You may 
>> need to add/remove refrigerant if your lines are much shorter or longer than 
>> standard.  By the way, these things come with a 5/16 in (not 1/4) service 
>> fitting.
>> Only at this point (installed, charged, and powered) will you know if it 
>> actually works or not.  That's why I think warranty is important.  Some 
>> systems must be installed by a licensed HVAC person for the warranty to be 
>> valid.  IMO, it's worth hiring a local HVAC guy to make final connections 
>> and do startup unless you happen to have all the required tools.
>> Unlike normal split AC/heat pumps, in a mini-split both the liquid (small) 
>> and vapor (big) lines must be insulated.  All the expansion valves (and 
>> other controls) are in the outdoor unit.  Unlike a standard split AC system, 
>> the pressure is the same in both (liquid and vapor) lines because the 
>> expansion valve is in the outdoor unit.  Same during heat cycle.
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 5:57 PM
>> To: Mercedes List 
>> Cc: Dan Penoff 
>> Subject: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split
>> 
>> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB 
>> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a set 
>> of precharged lines for $650.
>> 
>> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

I put my units in, all the install, hooked up everything then called my AC guy 
to pull the vacuum, check for leaks, and do the charging. Gives me the 
warranty. Nothing exotic, easy to do. 

A cheap unit for garage is probably reasonable. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 14, 2020, at 8:34 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan,  
> That is a good price but you can get a similar new unit from several online 
> sources for a couple hundred more.
> I installed a 9K BTU system (1 ton is 12K BTU) in my outbuilding a couple 
> years ago and have been happy with it.  Mine was brand name "Pioneer" bought 
> from https://www.highseer.com/ .  The details of my outdoor unit appear 
> identical to a Mitsubishi unit so suspect it (and many other brands) is just 
> a relabeled version of a big name Asian product.  
> Install is not hard, especially if you mount the outdoor unit on the ground 
> and you have a concrete block or standard 16 or 24 inch stud wall (neither 
> the case where I had to install mine).
> These come in 110v and 220v so consider the available power at your location.
> There are high efficiency units with one orifice and one electronic expansion 
> valve and higher efficiency units with two expansion valves (like 18 vs 22 
> SEER).  Heating efficiency doesn't vary much.
> Unlike a standard AC/heat pump, getting a unit that is "too big" is less of a 
> problem because the compressor and blower will run slower to match lower 
> heating/cooling needs.
> You will probably need to trim (shorten) the refrigerant line set and you'll 
> want a good flare tool for this; cheapie tools will leak.  Mine came with a 
> tiny tune of stuff (sealant) to put on the flare connections and mine never 
> leaked at those connections.
> You can get prefab plastic cover kits for the exposed outside refrigerant 
> lines, wires and condensate drain.  Worthwhile IMO for UV protection if 
> nothing else.
> Once everything is connected it's best to run a leak test with dry nitrogen 
> but that requires a N2 bottle and regulator plus hose.  Then you'll need a 
> vacuum pump to suck out the air/N2 and water vapor before releasing the 
> refrigerant (that's stored in the outdoor unit) into the system.  You may 
> need to add/remove refrigerant if your lines are much shorter or longer than 
> standard.  By the way, these things come with a 5/16 in (not 1/4) service 
> fitting.
> Only at this point (installed, charged, and powered) will you know if it 
> actually works or not.  That's why I think warranty is important.  Some 
> systems must be installed by a licensed HVAC person for the warranty to be 
> valid.  IMO, it's worth hiring a local HVAC guy to make final connections and 
> do startup unless you happen to have all the required tools.
> Unlike normal split AC/heat pumps, in a mini-split both the liquid (small) 
> and vapor (big) lines must be insulated.  All the expansion valves (and other 
> controls) are in the outdoor unit.  Unlike a standard split AC system, the 
> pressure is the same in both (liquid and vapor) lines because the expansion 
> valve is in the outdoor unit.  Same during heat cycle.
> Scott
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 5:57 PM
> To: Mercedes List 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split
> 
> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB 
> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a set 
> of precharged lines for $650.
> 
> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
> 
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> 
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Good stuff, Scott. Thanks!

I noticed the cheapie one I saw was only AC, no heat. I would think that AC 
only ones would be less expensive if they’re offered. I don’t need heat.

I can do 120 or 240 - the distribution panel is on the wall where this would be 
mounted, so that part is easy. Flower bed on the exterior wall, so no problem 
with putting a little precast concrete pad there, either. Only real issue is 
that it’s an exterior block wall, so I’ll have to drill/punch through concrete 
block for the lines and power. Not a big deal.

-D

> On Mar 14, 2020, at 8:33 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan,  
> That is a good price but you can get a similar new unit from several online 
> sources for a couple hundred more.
> I installed a 9K BTU system (1 ton is 12K BTU) in my outbuilding a couple 
> years ago and have been happy with it.  Mine was brand name "Pioneer" bought 
> from https://www.highseer.com/ .  The details of my outdoor unit appear 
> identical to a Mitsubishi unit so suspect it (and many other brands) is just 
> a relabeled version of a big name Asian product.  
> Install is not hard, especially if you mount the outdoor unit on the ground 
> and you have a concrete block or standard 16 or 24 inch stud wall (neither 
> the case where I had to install mine).
> These come in 110v and 220v so consider the available power at your location.
> There are high efficiency units with one orifice and one electronic expansion 
> valve and higher efficiency units with two expansion valves (like 18 vs 22 
> SEER).  Heating efficiency doesn't vary much.
> Unlike a standard AC/heat pump, getting a unit that is "too big" is less of a 
> problem because the compressor and blower will run slower to match lower 
> heating/cooling needs.
> You will probably need to trim (shorten) the refrigerant line set and you'll 
> want a good flare tool for this; cheapie tools will leak.  Mine came with a 
> tiny tune of stuff (sealant) to put on the flare connections and mine never 
> leaked at those connections.
> You can get prefab plastic cover kits for the exposed outside refrigerant 
> lines, wires and condensate drain.  Worthwhile IMO for UV protection if 
> nothing else.
> Once everything is connected it's best to run a leak test with dry nitrogen 
> but that requires a N2 bottle and regulator plus hose.  Then you'll need a 
> vacuum pump to suck out the air/N2 and water vapor before releasing the 
> refrigerant (that's stored in the outdoor unit) into the system.  You may 
> need to add/remove refrigerant if your lines are much shorter or longer than 
> standard.  By the way, these things come with a 5/16 in (not 1/4) service 
> fitting.
> Only at this point (installed, charged, and powered) will you know if it 
> actually works or not.  That's why I think warranty is important.  Some 
> systems must be installed by a licensed HVAC person for the warranty to be 
> valid.  IMO, it's worth hiring a local HVAC guy to make final connections and 
> do startup unless you happen to have all the required tools.
> Unlike normal split AC/heat pumps, in a mini-split both the liquid (small) 
> and vapor (big) lines must be insulated.  All the expansion valves (and other 
> controls) are in the outdoor unit.  Unlike a standard split AC system, the 
> pressure is the same in both (liquid and vapor) lines because the expansion 
> valve is in the outdoor unit.  Same during heat cycle.
> Scott
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 5:57 PM
> To: Mercedes List 
> Cc: Dan Penoff 
> Subject: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split
> 
> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB 
> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a set 
> of precharged lines for $650.
> 
> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
> 
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Dan,  
That is a good price but you can get a similar new unit from several online 
sources for a couple hundred more.
I installed a 9K BTU system (1 ton is 12K BTU) in my outbuilding a couple years 
ago and have been happy with it.  Mine was brand name "Pioneer" bought from 
https://www.highseer.com/ .  The details of my outdoor unit appear identical to 
a Mitsubishi unit so suspect it (and many other brands) is just a relabeled 
version of a big name Asian product.  
Install is not hard, especially if you mount the outdoor unit on the ground and 
you have a concrete block or standard 16 or 24 inch stud wall (neither the case 
where I had to install mine).
These come in 110v and 220v so consider the available power at your location.
There are high efficiency units with one orifice and one electronic expansion 
valve and higher efficiency units with two expansion valves (like 18 vs 22 
SEER).  Heating efficiency doesn't vary much.
Unlike a standard AC/heat pump, getting a unit that is "too big" is less of a 
problem because the compressor and blower will run slower to match lower 
heating/cooling needs.
You will probably need to trim (shorten) the refrigerant line set and you'll 
want a good flare tool for this; cheapie tools will leak.  Mine came with a 
tiny tune of stuff (sealant) to put on the flare connections and mine never 
leaked at those connections.
You can get prefab plastic cover kits for the exposed outside refrigerant 
lines, wires and condensate drain.  Worthwhile IMO for UV protection if nothing 
else.
Once everything is connected it's best to run a leak test with dry nitrogen but 
that requires a N2 bottle and regulator plus hose.  Then you'll need a vacuum 
pump to suck out the air/N2 and water vapor before releasing the refrigerant 
(that's stored in the outdoor unit) into the system.  You may need to 
add/remove refrigerant if your lines are much shorter or longer than standard.  
By the way, these things come with a 5/16 in (not 1/4) service fitting.
Only at this point (installed, charged, and powered) will you know if it 
actually works or not.  That's why I think warranty is important.  Some systems 
must be installed by a licensed HVAC person for the warranty to be valid.  IMO, 
it's worth hiring a local HVAC guy to make final connections and do startup 
unless you happen to have all the required tools.
Unlike normal split AC/heat pumps, in a mini-split both the liquid (small) and 
vapor (big) lines must be insulated.  All the expansion valves (and other 
controls) are in the outdoor unit.  Unlike a standard split AC system, the 
pressure is the same in both (liquid and vapor) lines because the expansion 
valve is in the outdoor unit.  Same during heat cycle.
Scott


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 5:57 PM
To: Mercedes List 
Cc: Dan Penoff 
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB marketplace 
has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a set of precharged 
lines for $650.

Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?

-D
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes]

I’m thinking about mini splits for my garage.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 14, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan,  putting in mini splits was,best thing we did in our house. Ours are
> Fujitsu. Do you know how many BTU's? I can look up specs & price for ours.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
>> On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:57 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB
>> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a
>> set of precharged lines for $650.
>> 
>> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Imo, Warranty is what matters in this case.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 18:35 Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
wrote:

> As stated, Home Despot sells them. Can’t tell who makes them, but the
> company is based in Miami and appears to be an importer. Something made
> offshore, no doubt.
>
> https://www.premiumus.com/product_listing.cfm?category_id=184=1 <
> https://www.premiumus.com/product_listing.cfm?category_id=184=1>
>
>
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Ductless-Mini-Splits/PREMIUM/N-5yc1vZc4m1Z44r
> <
> https://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Ductless-Mini-Splits/PREMIUM/N-5yc1vZc4m1Z44r
> >
>
> -D
>
> > On Mar 14, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > That’s the brand?  Never heard of it. Try to find out who makes it.
> >
> > --FT
> > Sent from iPhone
> >
> >> On Mar 14, 2020, at 5:57 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB
> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a
> set of precharged lines for $650.
> >>
> >> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
> >>
> >> -D
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Dan,  putting in mini splits was,best thing we did in our house. Ours are
Fujitsu. Do you know how many BTU's? I can look up specs & price for ours.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 5:57 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB
> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a
> set of precharged lines for $650.
>
> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
>
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

As stated, Home Despot sells them. Can’t tell who makes them, but the company 
is based in Miami and appears to be an importer. Something made offshore, no 
doubt.

https://www.premiumus.com/product_listing.cfm?category_id=184=1 


https://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Ductless-Mini-Splits/PREMIUM/N-5yc1vZc4m1Z44r
 


-D

> On Mar 14, 2020, at 6:15 PM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> That’s the brand?  Never heard of it. Try to find out who makes it. 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2020, at 5:57 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB 
>> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a set 
>> of precharged lines for $650.
>> 
>> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
>> 
>> -D
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Mini-Split

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

That’s the brand?  Never heard of it. Try to find out who makes it. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Mar 14, 2020, at 5:57 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I know some of you are familiar with these. Some guy on my local FB 
> marketplace has a 1 ton “Premium” mini-split brand new in the box with a set 
> of precharged lines for $650.
> 
> Looks like Home Despot sells these. Anyone know if they’re any good?
> 
> -D
> ___
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> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I used a small-time independent guy.  He seemed to have no qualms.  Not sure 
how it would have gone if I screwed up my part.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan
> Penoff via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 4:41 PM
> To: Mercedes List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Dan Penoff <d...@penoff.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump
> 
> Something I’ve been wondering as I read about everyone doing this on their
> own then having someone come and do the final connect/charging - is there
> any reluctance on the part of a professional HVAC guy being willing to do 
> this?
> Isn’t is sort of like going to the garage and bringing your own parts?
> 
> Just curious…
> 
> -D


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

It really depends on capacity.  As a starting point, look here:
https://www.highseer.com/high-seer-inverter-mini-split-ductless.html
These 16-18 SEER units run from $600 for 9000 BTU up to $1900 for 3600 BTU.

They sell more efficient unite (like 22 SEER) that are a couple/few hundred
more for similar capacity.
About $100 of the cost is shipping from FL, so a local supplier might save
you some cash.  
I'm sure there are good competitors, I just don't know who they are.
There are big-name systems (like Hitachi) which will cost much more.  I
don't see how these expensive systems could perform better except (maybe)
longevity or parts availability.  My cheapie system is very quiet and it
puts out the BTUs, although I have no way to measure output.
As for installation, check out one of the many videos on youtube.  They all
install about the same:  drill a big hole through the wall, mount the inside
bracket, attach wires & drain tube to inside unit, clip the inside unit on
the bracket, mount outside unit, connect refrigerant lines and wires between
units, connect AC power to outside unit.  Then evacuate and release the
R410a gas, which is stored in outside unit.  
In my experience, determining exactly where and how to install the units was
the hard part.  Also, assuming you need to shorten the refrigerant tubes, a
good flare is essential or you'll have a leak.
When assessing capacity, consider: size, insulation, climate, and use (do
you want rapid cool-down).
Scott


> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 5:06 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Kaleb C. Striplin <ka...@striplin.net>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump
> 
> How much do these cost? Maybe 1-2 of them installed in my 40X60 insulated
> shop would be enough to take some of the edge off the heat in the summer
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Mar 5, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I agree this install could be totally DIY.  But I had no confidence in
> > my cheapie old flare tool and a good flare tool cost about the same as
> > the pro charged for the final startup.  Also, I hadn't used my vacuum
> > pump in 10 years so (as a minimum) it needed new oil, which I didn't
> > have on hand.  The pro I hired also installed a service port on the
> > liquid line; the basic unit only had a port on the vapor line.  This is
probably a
> mixed blessing: while
> > it allows better testing it creates another potential leak point.   My
> > refrigerant lines were very short so the installer actually had to
> > release some of the gas.
> > One thing I really liked about this Pioneer heat pump from HighSEER is
> > that it included everything needed for the install (except tools),
> > including insulated refrigerant lines, wires (except power feed from
> > the CB box), drain hose, putty to fill the big hole, and even a tiny
> > tube of stuff that's supposed to prevent leaks at the flare
> > connections.  The instructions were OK but there were the weakest part
of
> the kit.
> > I originally wanted the 220v version of this heat pump but it was out
> > of stock at the time so I had to get the 110 volt version; even so,
> > it's draws under 10 amps and I have a 40 amp feed to that building.
> > Luckily, I had an outside circuit breaker box about a foot from the
> > compressor unit so I just slapped in another 15 amp breaker for the
> > heat pump.  I previously had a small window AC unit in that outbuilding
> which died, probably from
> > lightning/power-surge, I think.   So I also added a set of 220v surge
> > suppressors to that exterior CB box.  I used that flexible
> > liquid-proof conduit to enclose the wires (power and signal) from the
> compressor.
> >
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 6:43 PM
> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> Cc: Jaime Kopchinski <jaime...@gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump
> >>
> >> Sounds good Scott.  I have a 30k BTU unit in my garage about 7 zones
> > installed
> >> in my house.  I did all the installs myself.  Its only a few more
> >> tools if
> > you
> >> already do automotive AC stuff.
> >>
> >> I think these are great units.  I use them as primary heating and
> >> even
> > leave my
> >> uninsulated garage at 55 in

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

My guys don't care, they get paid whatever they do.  It's just another 
job for them.  They charge me for a service call sort of thing, gas is 
extra if needed.  Doesn't take them but maybe an hour although on one it 
took a bit longer on the newer 2-head unit because one of the flare 
connections got cross-threaded or something, I had to redo that once we 
figured out where the leak was when he put some nitrogen to it and I 
could hear it hissing. Took it apart and put it back together and all 
was good.  I don't remember exactly what the fee was, but I think both 
were less than $200 each.  I've had them back to do some 
checking/charging if needed and that is like $85 for a straight service 
call.


They are local guys, a father/son, and really nice.  The kid has a 
business degree from USC, had an office job for a year and was ready to 
eat a bullet, quit and went to HVAC school and loves what he is doing 
and making more money.  I think the dad is more or less retired and is 
mostly a helper, he defers to the boy on details but has some basic 
knowledge.


--FT


On 3/5/17 4:41 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Something I’ve been wondering as I read about everyone doing this on their own 
then having someone come and do the final connect/charging - is there any 
reluctance on the part of a professional HVAC guy being willing to do this?  
Isn’t is sort of like going to the garage and bringing your own parts?

Just curious…

-D



On Mar 5, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  
wrote:

I agree this install could be totally DIY.  But I had no confidence in my
cheapie old flare tool and a good flare tool cost about the same as the pro
charged for the final startup.  Also, I hadn't used my vacuum pump in 10
years so (as a minimum) it needed new oil, which I didn't have on hand.  The
pro I hired also installed a service port on the liquid line; the basic unit
only had a port on the vapor line.  This is probably a mixed blessing: while
it allows better testing it creates another potential leak point.   My
refrigerant lines were very short so the installer actually had to release
some of the gas.
One thing I really liked about this Pioneer heat pump from HighSEER is that
it included everything needed for the install (except tools), including
insulated refrigerant lines, wires (except power feed from the CB box),
drain hose, putty to fill the big hole, and even a tiny tube of stuff that's
supposed to prevent leaks at the flare connections.  The instructions were
OK but there were the weakest part of the kit.
I originally wanted the 220v version of this heat pump but it was out of
stock at the time so I had to get the 110 volt version; even so, it's draws
under 10 amps and I have a 40 amp feed to that building.  Luckily, I had an
outside circuit breaker box about a foot from the compressor unit so I just
slapped in another 15 amp breaker for the heat pump.  I previously had a
small window AC unit in that outbuilding which died, probably from
lightning/power-surge, I think.   So I also added a set of 220v surge
suppressors to that exterior CB box.  I used that flexible liquid-proof
conduit to enclose the wires (power and signal) from the compressor.




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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

How much do these cost? Maybe 1-2 of them installed in my 40X60 insulated shop 
would be enough to take some of the edge off the heat in the summer

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 5, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree this install could be totally DIY.  But I had no confidence in my
> cheapie old flare tool and a good flare tool cost about the same as the pro
> charged for the final startup.  Also, I hadn't used my vacuum pump in 10
> years so (as a minimum) it needed new oil, which I didn't have on hand.  The
> pro I hired also installed a service port on the liquid line; the basic unit
> only had a port on the vapor line.  This is probably a mixed blessing: while
> it allows better testing it creates another potential leak point.   My
> refrigerant lines were very short so the installer actually had to release
> some of the gas.
> One thing I really liked about this Pioneer heat pump from HighSEER is that
> it included everything needed for the install (except tools), including
> insulated refrigerant lines, wires (except power feed from the CB box),
> drain hose, putty to fill the big hole, and even a tiny tube of stuff that's
> supposed to prevent leaks at the flare connections.  The instructions were
> OK but there were the weakest part of the kit.
> I originally wanted the 220v version of this heat pump but it was out of
> stock at the time so I had to get the 110 volt version; even so, it's draws
> under 10 amps and I have a 40 amp feed to that building.  Luckily, I had an
> outside circuit breaker box about a foot from the compressor unit so I just
> slapped in another 15 amp breaker for the heat pump.  I previously had a
> small window AC unit in that outbuilding which died, probably from
> lightning/power-surge, I think.   So I also added a set of 220v surge
> suppressors to that exterior CB box.  I used that flexible liquid-proof
> conduit to enclose the wires (power and signal) from the compressor.
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
>> Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes
>> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 6:43 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: Jaime Kopchinski <jaime...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump
>> 
>> Sounds good Scott.  I have a 30k BTU unit in my garage about 7 zones
> installed
>> in my house.  I did all the installs myself.  Its only a few more tools if
> you
>> already do automotive AC stuff.
>> 
>> I think these are great units.  I use them as primary heating and even
> leave my
>> uninsulated garage at 55 in the winter.  The cost of running the unit is
> so low
>> that I can't really justify the cost of insulation for energy savings
> (Although I'll
>> probably do it for comfort in the future).
>> 
>> Good luck,
>> Jaime
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I thought I'd relate my experience installing a 1200 BTU mini split
>>> HVAC system in an out building.  The building is mainly a workshop but
>>> it has running water and I store ammo there so I wanted to protect
>>> from freezing and humidity.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I bought a "Pioneer" min split system from High SEER for a bit over
>>> $600 last fall but didn't get around to installing until last month.
>>> My main problem was the oddball stud locations and limited inside
>>> space, which made it hard to find a location for the 2.5 inch hole for
>>> the power and refrigerant lines.  I spackled the many "test" holes
>>> before locking down the inside unit.  I opted to mount the outside
>>> unit on the wall (vs a pad) to keep it up and away from the mower and
>>> flying grass clippings.  This was a problem because the brackets
>>> required 19 inch centers which were nowhere near the studs.  So I
>>> screwed horizontal pieces of 2x4 to the studs (with construction
>>> screws) and used recesses carriage bolts (from the backside) to create
>>> threaded studs at the mounting bracket holes.  I hired a pro to make
>>> the final refrigerant line connections. evacuate the system, and start
>>> it up, which took about an hour.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So far, so good. I routinely use the freeze protect (FP) heat function
>>> that only produces heat below 40 F; but the other functions seem to
>>> work OK.  I expect to use the dry function routinely in the 

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Something I’ve been wondering as I read about everyone doing this on their own 
then having someone come and do the final connect/charging - is there any 
reluctance on the part of a professional HVAC guy being willing to do this?  
Isn’t is sort of like going to the garage and bringing your own parts?

Just curious…

-D


> On Mar 5, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I agree this install could be totally DIY.  But I had no confidence in my
> cheapie old flare tool and a good flare tool cost about the same as the pro
> charged for the final startup.  Also, I hadn't used my vacuum pump in 10
> years so (as a minimum) it needed new oil, which I didn't have on hand.  The
> pro I hired also installed a service port on the liquid line; the basic unit
> only had a port on the vapor line.  This is probably a mixed blessing: while
> it allows better testing it creates another potential leak point.   My
> refrigerant lines were very short so the installer actually had to release
> some of the gas.
> One thing I really liked about this Pioneer heat pump from HighSEER is that
> it included everything needed for the install (except tools), including
> insulated refrigerant lines, wires (except power feed from the CB box),
> drain hose, putty to fill the big hole, and even a tiny tube of stuff that's
> supposed to prevent leaks at the flare connections.  The instructions were
> OK but there were the weakest part of the kit.
> I originally wanted the 220v version of this heat pump but it was out of
> stock at the time so I had to get the 110 volt version; even so, it's draws
> under 10 amps and I have a 40 amp feed to that building.  Luckily, I had an
> outside circuit breaker box about a foot from the compressor unit so I just
> slapped in another 15 amp breaker for the heat pump.  I previously had a
> small window AC unit in that outbuilding which died, probably from
> lightning/power-surge, I think.   So I also added a set of 220v surge
> suppressors to that exterior CB box.  I used that flexible liquid-proof
> conduit to enclose the wires (power and signal) from the compressor.
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

I agree this install could be totally DIY.  But I had no confidence in my
cheapie old flare tool and a good flare tool cost about the same as the pro
charged for the final startup.  Also, I hadn't used my vacuum pump in 10
years so (as a minimum) it needed new oil, which I didn't have on hand.  The
pro I hired also installed a service port on the liquid line; the basic unit
only had a port on the vapor line.  This is probably a mixed blessing: while
it allows better testing it creates another potential leak point.   My
refrigerant lines were very short so the installer actually had to release
some of the gas.
One thing I really liked about this Pioneer heat pump from HighSEER is that
it included everything needed for the install (except tools), including
insulated refrigerant lines, wires (except power feed from the CB box),
drain hose, putty to fill the big hole, and even a tiny tube of stuff that's
supposed to prevent leaks at the flare connections.  The instructions were
OK but there were the weakest part of the kit.
I originally wanted the 220v version of this heat pump but it was out of
stock at the time so I had to get the 110 volt version; even so, it's draws
under 10 amps and I have a 40 amp feed to that building.  Luckily, I had an
outside circuit breaker box about a foot from the compressor unit so I just
slapped in another 15 amp breaker for the heat pump.  I previously had a
small window AC unit in that outbuilding which died, probably from
lightning/power-surge, I think.   So I also added a set of 220v surge
suppressors to that exterior CB box.  I used that flexible liquid-proof
conduit to enclose the wires (power and signal) from the compressor.



> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes
> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2017 6:43 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Jaime Kopchinski <jaime...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump
> 
> Sounds good Scott.  I have a 30k BTU unit in my garage about 7 zones
installed
> in my house.  I did all the installs myself.  Its only a few more tools if
you
> already do automotive AC stuff.
> 
> I think these are great units.  I use them as primary heating and even
leave my
> uninsulated garage at 55 in the winter.  The cost of running the unit is
so low
> that I can't really justify the cost of insulation for energy savings
(Although I'll
> probably do it for comfort in the future).
> 
> Good luck,
> Jaime
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > I thought I'd relate my experience installing a 1200 BTU mini split
> > HVAC system in an out building.  The building is mainly a workshop but
> > it has running water and I store ammo there so I wanted to protect
> > from freezing and humidity.
> >
> >
> >
> > I bought a "Pioneer" min split system from High SEER for a bit over
> > $600 last fall but didn't get around to installing until last month.
> > My main problem was the oddball stud locations and limited inside
> > space, which made it hard to find a location for the 2.5 inch hole for
> > the power and refrigerant lines.  I spackled the many "test" holes
> > before locking down the inside unit.  I opted to mount the outside
> > unit on the wall (vs a pad) to keep it up and away from the mower and
> > flying grass clippings.  This was a problem because the brackets
> > required 19 inch centers which were nowhere near the studs.  So I
> > screwed horizontal pieces of 2x4 to the studs (with construction
> > screws) and used recesses carriage bolts (from the backside) to create
> > threaded studs at the mounting bracket holes.  I hired a pro to make
> > the final refrigerant line connections. evacuate the system, and start
> > it up, which took about an hour.
> >
> >
> >
> > So far, so good. I routinely use the freeze protect (FP) heat function
> > that only produces heat below 40 F; but the other functions seem to
> > work OK.  I expect to use the dry function routinely in the summer
> > months.  The building is not very airtight (yet) so I don't expect to
> > really cool it except for limited periods.  The system is VERY quiet
> > and vibration free.  In fact, when we started it up the first time,
> > the HVAC installer did not know the compressor was even running until
> > he felt the warm refrigerant lines.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is an inverter system (17 SEER) which only uses apertures (no
> > expansion
> > valves) to expand the fluid.  I suppose the compressor speed is
> > modulated to achieve efficient expansion

Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I have put in 2 condenser units with 6 (4+2) head units in the house, 
and have another I have to do soon.  I hired out the vacuum and fill 
because the warranty wanted a licensed HVAC guy to do it but it is easy 
enough to do.  The units have the gas in them so basically after pulling 
a vacuum for awhile you can just open the valve.  The 4-head system 
needed a bit more gas to bring it up due to the length of the lines, but 
that is easy enough to do too if you have the gauge set and a tank of 
gas.  I was thinking to put one in my garage too at some point, but I 
guess a little window unit would be fine where the laser cutter is.


These things are great, seems like they are just starting to catch on in 
the US.  I think maybe because they are easy to retrofit into old 
housing units that exist in other parts of the world, and where they 
have a lot of masonry buildings it is hard to put conventional units in.


--FT


On 3/4/17 6:43 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes wrote:

Sounds good Scott.  I have a 30k BTU unit in my garage about 7 zones
installed in my house.  I did all the installs myself.  Its only a few more
tools if you already do automotive AC stuff.

I think these are great units.  I use them as primary heating and even
leave my uninsulated garage at 55 in the winter.  The cost of running the
unit is so low that I can't really justify the cost of insulation for
energy savings (Although I'll probably do it for comfort in the future).

Good luck,
Jaime



On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


I thought I'd relate my experience installing a 1200 BTU mini split HVAC
system in an out building.  The building is mainly a workshop but it has
running water and I store ammo there so I wanted to protect from freezing
and humidity.



I bought a "Pioneer" min split system from High SEER for a bit over $600
last fall but didn't get around to installing until last month.  My main
problem was the oddball stud locations and limited inside space, which made
it hard to find a location for the 2.5 inch hole for the power and
refrigerant lines.  I spackled the many "test" holes before locking down
the
inside unit.  I opted to mount the outside unit on the wall (vs a pad) to
keep it up and away from the mower and flying grass clippings.  This was a
problem because the brackets required 19 inch centers which were nowhere
near the studs.  So I screwed horizontal pieces of 2x4 to the studs (with
construction screws) and used recesses carriage bolts (from the backside)
to
create threaded studs at the mounting bracket holes.  I hired a pro to make
the final refrigerant line connections. evacuate the system, and start it
up, which took about an hour.



So far, so good. I routinely use the freeze protect (FP) heat function that
only produces heat below 40 F; but the other functions seem to work OK.  I
expect to use the dry function routinely in the summer months.  The
building
is not very airtight (yet) so I don't expect to really cool it except for
limited periods.  The system is VERY quiet and vibration free.  In fact,
when we started it up the first time, the HVAC installer did not know the
compressor was even running until he felt the warm refrigerant lines.



This is an inverter system (17 SEER) which only uses apertures (no
expansion
valves) to expand the fluid.  I suppose the compressor speed is modulated
to
achieve efficient expansion.  In any case, it seems to work just fine.  I
think installation would be pretty easy in a cement block or even a larger
stud wall section.





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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I am convinced this is the way to go if I ever decide to air condition my 
garage.  It wouldn’t be terribly efficient, but anything to moderate the heat 
and humidity in the summer when I have to do some work on the cars.

I’ve got a fellow employee who lives in an “atomic house” in an older area of 
Tampa, and it currently has one of those giant “hang on the wall” AC units that 
was retrofitted years ago.  She’s giving serious consideration to going to a 
couple of mini splits (at my urging) as a part of a remodel and if she does 
she’s going to give me the wall hung thing.  I could probably use the existing 
window opening for the plenum if I got it.  Power is right there in the garage 
so getting it electrified would be a pretty simple matter.

-D



> On Mar 4, 2017, at 6:33 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I thought I'd relate my experience installing a 1200 BTU mini split HVAC
> system in an out building.  The building is mainly a workshop but it has
> running water and I store ammo there so I wanted to protect from freezing
> and humidity.
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a "Pioneer" min split system from High SEER for a bit over $600
> last fall but didn't get around to installing until last month.  My main
> problem was the oddball stud locations and limited inside space, which made
> it hard to find a location for the 2.5 inch hole for the power and
> refrigerant lines.  I spackled the many "test" holes before locking down the
> inside unit.  I opted to mount the outside unit on the wall (vs a pad) to
> keep it up and away from the mower and flying grass clippings.  This was a
> problem because the brackets required 19 inch centers which were nowhere
> near the studs.  So I screwed horizontal pieces of 2x4 to the studs (with
> construction screws) and used recesses carriage bolts (from the backside) to
> create threaded studs at the mounting bracket holes.  I hired a pro to make
> the final refrigerant line connections. evacuate the system, and start it
> up, which took about an hour.  
> 
> 
> 
> So far, so good. I routinely use the freeze protect (FP) heat function that
> only produces heat below 40 F; but the other functions seem to work OK.  I
> expect to use the dry function routinely in the summer months.  The building
> is not very airtight (yet) so I don't expect to really cool it except for
> limited periods.  The system is VERY quiet and vibration free.  In fact,
> when we started it up the first time, the HVAC installer did not know the
> compressor was even running until he felt the warm refrigerant lines.
> 
> 
> 
> This is an inverter system (17 SEER) which only uses apertures (no expansion
> valves) to expand the fluid.  I suppose the compressor speed is modulated to
> achieve efficient expansion.  In any case, it seems to work just fine.  I
> think installation would be pretty easy in a cement block or even a larger
> stud wall section.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I need to figure out something for my shop. I already have 2 large gas heaters 
hanging from the ceiling, would love to get some cooling out there also 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 4, 2017, at 5:43 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sounds good Scott.  I have a 30k BTU unit in my garage about 7 zones
> installed in my house.  I did all the installs myself.  Its only a few more
> tools if you already do automotive AC stuff.
> 
> I think these are great units.  I use them as primary heating and even
> leave my uninsulated garage at 55 in the winter.  The cost of running the
> unit is so low that I can't really justify the cost of insulation for
> energy savings (Although I'll probably do it for comfort in the future).
> 
> Good luck,
> Jaime
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I thought I'd relate my experience installing a 1200 BTU mini split HVAC
>> system in an out building.  The building is mainly a workshop but it has
>> running water and I store ammo there so I wanted to protect from freezing
>> and humidity.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I bought a "Pioneer" min split system from High SEER for a bit over $600
>> last fall but didn't get around to installing until last month.  My main
>> problem was the oddball stud locations and limited inside space, which made
>> it hard to find a location for the 2.5 inch hole for the power and
>> refrigerant lines.  I spackled the many "test" holes before locking down
>> the
>> inside unit.  I opted to mount the outside unit on the wall (vs a pad) to
>> keep it up and away from the mower and flying grass clippings.  This was a
>> problem because the brackets required 19 inch centers which were nowhere
>> near the studs.  So I screwed horizontal pieces of 2x4 to the studs (with
>> construction screws) and used recesses carriage bolts (from the backside)
>> to
>> create threaded studs at the mounting bracket holes.  I hired a pro to make
>> the final refrigerant line connections. evacuate the system, and start it
>> up, which took about an hour.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So far, so good. I routinely use the freeze protect (FP) heat function that
>> only produces heat below 40 F; but the other functions seem to work OK.  I
>> expect to use the dry function routinely in the summer months.  The
>> building
>> is not very airtight (yet) so I don't expect to really cool it except for
>> limited periods.  The system is VERY quiet and vibration free.  In fact,
>> when we started it up the first time, the HVAC installer did not know the
>> compressor was even running until he felt the warm refrigerant lines.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This is an inverter system (17 SEER) which only uses apertures (no
>> expansion
>> valves) to expand the fluid.  I suppose the compressor speed is modulated
>> to
>> achieve efficient expansion.  In any case, it seems to work just fine.  I
>> think installation would be pretty easy in a cement block or even a larger
>> stud wall section.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Mini Split Heat Pump

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

Sounds good Scott.  I have a 30k BTU unit in my garage about 7 zones
installed in my house.  I did all the installs myself.  Its only a few more
tools if you already do automotive AC stuff.

I think these are great units.  I use them as primary heating and even
leave my uninsulated garage at 55 in the winter.  The cost of running the
unit is so low that I can't really justify the cost of insulation for
energy savings (Although I'll probably do it for comfort in the future).

Good luck,
Jaime



On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 6:33 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I thought I'd relate my experience installing a 1200 BTU mini split HVAC
> system in an out building.  The building is mainly a workshop but it has
> running water and I store ammo there so I wanted to protect from freezing
> and humidity.
>
>
>
> I bought a "Pioneer" min split system from High SEER for a bit over $600
> last fall but didn't get around to installing until last month.  My main
> problem was the oddball stud locations and limited inside space, which made
> it hard to find a location for the 2.5 inch hole for the power and
> refrigerant lines.  I spackled the many "test" holes before locking down
> the
> inside unit.  I opted to mount the outside unit on the wall (vs a pad) to
> keep it up and away from the mower and flying grass clippings.  This was a
> problem because the brackets required 19 inch centers which were nowhere
> near the studs.  So I screwed horizontal pieces of 2x4 to the studs (with
> construction screws) and used recesses carriage bolts (from the backside)
> to
> create threaded studs at the mounting bracket holes.  I hired a pro to make
> the final refrigerant line connections. evacuate the system, and start it
> up, which took about an hour.
>
>
>
> So far, so good. I routinely use the freeze protect (FP) heat function that
> only produces heat below 40 F; but the other functions seem to work OK.  I
> expect to use the dry function routinely in the summer months.  The
> building
> is not very airtight (yet) so I don't expect to really cool it except for
> limited periods.  The system is VERY quiet and vibration free.  In fact,
> when we started it up the first time, the HVAC installer did not know the
> compressor was even running until he felt the warm refrigerant lines.
>
>
>
> This is an inverter system (17 SEER) which only uses apertures (no
> expansion
> valves) to expand the fluid.  I suppose the compressor speed is modulated
> to
> achieve efficient expansion.  In any case, it seems to work just fine.  I
> think installation would be pretty easy in a cement block or even a larger
> stud wall section.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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