[osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
brbr@all: Yes, I know that wrappers exist, and have used xcdroast previously. The last gcombust release was in 2003. Lets just say I like my GUIs pretty and intuitive. The graveman screenshots look promising. The point is there are no production quality ones, that could be included in SX by default. Surprising that JDS/Gnome havent come out with a k3b equivalent. For the purpose of this argument, let me agree with you. Now the key question is, what good does a *Linux* port of Nero do... for Solaris? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
Ummm we have a couple of user groups here ... developers/power users ho want scriptablity and power, casual users and newbies who want ease of use. A developer/power user will go gaga over the power, flexibility, etailed output and scriptability that cdrecord and mkisofs provide. All sorts of automation using remote terminals, expect, distributed CD burning and what not ... wow wow! Casual users, OpenSolaris newbies including people used to other OSes ike, Windows, MacOSx, Linux couldn't care less about UDF, lofi, Joliet, Rock Ridge ... All hey want to do is pop in a blank CD, grab a bunch of files, drop them into a window and voila - hey get written with all the correct joliet-what and rock-what formatting. And what did you say bout some tty thingy ... well do you mean those little green screens with lots of letters with erious faced white robed guys poring over them ... um uh oh ... well lets see wasn't that decades ago ... think I will go back to good ol' Windows. Moinak, I urge you to think carefully one more time about what you've written (an excellent reply BTW). The number of true IT experts and professionals is dwindling exponentially every day. Over here I've got bakers and train drivers and construction workers being hired into IT to write web applications based on Oracle databases! I've got people working as Oracle DBAs on Solaris not knowing how to set up a PATH variable properly! I've got people doing Oracle who don't know how to use RMAN or RAC, let alone know what ZFS is, and that Solaris now runs on the i86pc platform! How many Jeff Bonwicks and Adam Leventhals and Moinak Goshes and Joerg Schillings do you think are left in the world? And how many of them are outside of that small concentrated spot called Menlo Park, CA? Can we dumb things down? Why yes of course we can. Any good engineer can! But what will happen when Jeff Bonwick retires? Or Moinak Ghosh? Or when Joerg ends up in a nursing home? If we don't educate the public, this knowledge will be lost. Who then will be left to develop advanced technologies, to push computer science forward, to have an understanding of why things were implemented the way they were? Just look around you on this mailing list. How many newbies do we see daily complaining why some feature XYZ from their Linux distro isn't present, only because they don't know System V and therefore don't know it's already been there for DECADES? How many people do we have asking about GNU functionality not being present inside of System V tools, because they don't have the knowledge and experience to understand that the point *is not* implementing tools within other tools, but stringing the tools together for maximum flexibility? My point is, quite simply, if we dumb everything down, once we're gone, the knowledge and experience might very well be lost. Forever. And I dread to imagine what IT and CS will look like without it. It's turning into a nightmare already. So this approach of dumbing things down for the newbie can very well turn to be the undoing of IT and CS. Who will be left to work on all this advanced stuff if we raise a generation of clicky-bunty masses? It's already a bad, bad problem today. What will it look like in ten or twenty years from now? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: CD burning in Solaris
I seem to have not been as clear as I should have. I sugest Nero not because there is no other alternative but because it is simple better. from and end user rospective it is highly intuative, can do anything you could posibly want, Actually, no, it can not. For example, the kind of UDF 1.50 images I create and burn, Nero can't do. has every cd or dvd feature out there, and has a more powerfull (yes this is true go through the technical documentation if you must) engine then cdrecord. It would greatly interest me, from a technical standpoint, to learn of a piece of software that has a more advanced engine than cdrecord. Please be so kind as to point out where Nero's burning engine is better than cdrecord. Graveman and others are good but not as good, most of the UI's are still feature incomplete, while Nero is a full package and all very closely knit. I believe that what you're really saying in the above paragraphs is that you're so used to Nero and you like it so much, that you actually want *someone else* to do the porting for you to Solaris. Two questions come to mind when I think about that. 1. did you lobby the makers of Nero to port it to Solaris? 2. if all you really care about is braindead clicky-bunty stuff, why do you care whether it runs on Solaris or not? You have clicky-bunty on Windows. And on MacOS X. You don't need Solaris for that. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Binary compatibility between OpenSolaris and Sun Solaris? Cross-compile?
I thought that it was obvious that an OpenSolaris based product cannot be compatible to Sun Solaris 10. Why would that be obvious? I've compiled binaries on Nevada and ran them on Solaris 10 without a hitch, so no, it is not obvious. To be fair, I recently compiled something on Solaris 10 and had it bomb out on Solaris with respect to libC.so. I was quite shocked, because it was the first time ever I saw something like that on Solaris (and any System V UNIX), but let it slide. And BTW: people who write lines longer than 79 characters are responsible for the fact that there is a high probability that not all of the text is read correctly. Wrapping lines correctly is the job of the MUA. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
Richard L. Hamilton wrote: Seriously, the next thing you know, you'll want a wizard or dancing paper clip or some such to step the newcomers through the choices that can't just be defaulted (like what kinds of systems do you want to be able to read this CD: Apple (Mac OS X), Solaris, Linux, Windows, ... (which says something about which format would be best for the CD)). And what is wrong with 'wizards' or animated paper clips if it helps some people get the job done? (I personally find animated clips a wastage of precious CPU, but *if* it helps, why not?) I for one have always preferred well designed GUIs and wizards to commands. Even that wouldn't be good enough for my aunt, who only uses a computer in place of a typewriter; when I asked her for a recipe, she typed it into (probably Word) and _mailed_ it to me. I mean, I'm no tree hugger, but _really_, is that necessary? She can't even handle Windows (not that she's dumb, but that she's _convinced_ herself she can't do a bunch of things), so what do I care if she never uses Solaris? I would say your aunt did pretty well. She successfully sent you the message, perhaps not very efficiently. I have worked with this class of users too - my dad. He keeps forgetting that to shutdown the PC he has to go for the 'start button! ;) I remember, when I first started working for Sun (2004), I was given a Sun Ray that had no xmms, no gaim, no root permissions... My first couple of week at work were spent trying to compile them and install in my home folder. :-P Most of my (real) work was over telnet (not ssh ;)) sessions to lab machines and looking at core dumps. I came from a windows background, by the way, and found it a pain. Before I ramble on too far, the point I am trying to make is that for many users (like your aunt and my dad) there is no glory in remembering commands and options, no glory in reading the 'fine' manual. I find no glory in it either and if I can do it with a GUI, I always do. How I have wished mdb had a front end like WinDbg... how I have wished for source debugging for the kernel.. (but that's a rant for another day). I have no issues with command line interfaces to utilities like cdrecord. But let's not brush away the usefulness of (good) GUIs and say we do not care about that segment of users! Regards, Manoj PS: I use Ubuntu and await the day VMWareServer works on OpenSolaris. :) -- Manoj Joseph http://kerneljunkie.blogspot.com/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: ethernet card not found during installation ?
sorry, I did't understand (my english is poor as my unix knowledge :-) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] What is the proper forum to discuss alternate filesystems?
Understanding that ZFS is the world's most advanced filesystem, there are times when other filesystem types are needed. In particular I am wondering if there is any work done or planned to start supporting additional file systems. Foe example: - jffs2/squashfs - FAT16/FAT32 - NTFS - ext3 - HFS+ - XFS - JFS ... Thanks, Brian This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the proper forum to discuss alternate filesystems?
Hi Brian, Replies inline. On 4/24/07, Brian Gupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Understanding that ZFS is the world's most advanced filesystem, there are times when other filesystem types are needed. unsure - FAT16/FAT32 These are supported. - NTFS - ext3 The above are not supported by default.. but oyu can get packages from http://www.genunix.org/distributions/belenix_site/binfiles/FSWfsmisc.tar.gz http://www.genunix.org/distributions/belenix_site/binfiles/FSWpart.tar.gz - HFS+ - XFS - JFS Unsure. Regards Anil ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Solaris (SXDE) Parallels appliance available on SDLC
Hi guys, A Solaris (SXDE) Parallels Virtual Machine Appliance (i.e., a pre-installed SXDE Parallels image) is now ready for your download on Sun Download Center! Generally speaking, this ready-to-resume appliance enables you to run Solaris inside Parallels virtual machine (http://www.parallels.com) on MacOS, Windows and Linux (not tested yet). Please don't hesitate to recommend it to anyone who wants to give it a try :) Please refer to my weblog for more info and instructions on download configuration: http://blogs.sun.com/danielz or directly download it from: http://www.sun.com/download/products.xml?id=461d6b7d Key features: * A full install of and pre-configured SXDE * Pre-installed network driver * Inetmenu 2.3.4 * Live upgrade capable * ZFS user data partition Thanks, Daniel This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
On 4/24/07, UNIX admin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: brbr@all: Yes, I know that wrappers exist, and have used xcdroast previously. The last gcombust release was in 2003. Lets just say I like my GUIs pretty and intuitive. The graveman screenshots look promising. The point is there are no production quality ones, that could be included in SX by default. Surprising that JDS/Gnome havent come out with a k3b equivalent. For the purpose of this argument, let me agree with you. Now the key question is, what good does a *Linux* port of Nero do... for Solaris? I'm not specifically asking for a Solaris port of linux Nero. I'm asking for a well designed GUI for burning CD/DVDs.. if Nero *were* to be ported, it would be a great choice. I'm a Campus ambassador for SUN, and spread awareness about Solaris and other SUN technologies on campus. It is _essential_ that there are good replacements to everyday tools that students use on Windows. As a desktop, I'd give solaris a 6/10. There are replacement tools for most.. music playing, movie player, etc. However the burning department is sourly lacking. (I cant even multisession a CDRW using the nautilus in the vanilla install). Now linux has evolved a lot on the desktop, and as we all know, packaging is one of the few places where SX lacks. pkg-get/Blastwave is a make-do option for now, but something more concrete has to come. The point is it is easier for a potential Solaris user to get things working on a Linux box than on a Solaris. If we take steps to bridge this gap on the desktop, I can assure you lots more participation from the student community. Things like tools to play music (all codecs) , burn music/video discs, easy installation/maintaining of software, etc. Regards Anil PS : with regard to the doomsday like scenario you've outlined when all of today's engineers fade away.. well it is dramatic and all, but not really how I'd expect things to turn up. The command line tools will certainly remain, and will be used by those with who want the specific uses, but the use of these tools is to get work done, and if GUIs can do that, why not? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the proper forum to discuss alternate filesystems?
On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 03:04 -0700, Brian Gupta wrote: Understanding that ZFS is the world's most advanced filesystem, there are times when other filesystem types are needed. In particular I am wondering if there is any work done or planned to start supporting additional file systems. Foe example: - jffs2/squashfs - FAT16/FAT32 This is known as pcfs. Its supported by Solaris now. - NTFS - ext3 Belenix has packages for these. When FUSE is ready we can easily port existing FUSE drivers for these. (http://opensolaris.org/os/project/fuse/) - HFS+ - XFS - JFS These are currently not supported. It looks like a new filesystems community may be set up which will encompass all the filesystem development efforts (UFS, ZFS, FUSE, etc will exist as projects in this community). See more info about that here: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html -Mark ... Thanks, Brian This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: b62 system error
Andrew Pattison writes: How do I disable IPv6 on the loopback? It's enabled automatically if you have one or more regular IPv6 interfaces at boot time (plumbed by /etc/hostname6.*), or if you're using the phase 0 NWAM feature. You can disable it at run time by doing ifconfig lo0 inet6 unplumb. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the proper forum to discuss alternate filesystems?
On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 12:34 +0200, Mark Phalan wrote: On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 03:04 -0700, Brian Gupta wrote: Understanding that ZFS is the world's most advanced filesystem, there are times when other filesystem types are needed. In particular I am wondering if there is any work done or planned to start supporting additional file systems. Foe example: - jffs2/squashfs There are at least two ways Solaris can currently support compressed filesystems: 1. ZFS with compression turned on. 2. lofi (http://www.genunix.org/distributions/belenix_site/?q=compression This *might* give you want you need. -Mark - FAT16/FAT32 This is known as pcfs. Its supported by Solaris now. - NTFS - ext3 Belenix has packages for these. When FUSE is ready we can easily port existing FUSE drivers for these. (http://opensolaris.org/os/project/fuse/) - HFS+ - XFS - JFS These are currently not supported. It looks like a new filesystems community may be set up which will encompass all the filesystem development efforts (UFS, ZFS, FUSE, etc will exist as projects in this community). See more info about that here: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2007-April/000289.html -Mark ... Thanks, Brian This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Annoyances watching discussion forums.
Why can't the emails I get include the topic of the post, in addition to the links? Why are there no digest mailing formats? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Annoyances watching discussion forums.
3) Why can't the emails I get include the body of the post? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
I'm not specifically asking for a Solaris port of linux Nero. I'm asking for a well designed GUI for burning CD/DVDs.. if Nero *were* to be ported, it would be a great choice.brbrI'm a Campus ambassador for SUN, and spread awareness about Solaris and other SUN technologies on campus. It is _essential_ that there are good replacements to everyday tools that students use on Windows. Why is that essential? I believe that the point is to bring up the next generation of system and kernel engineers and computer *scientists*, not bring up a next generation of plants and vegetables. There are enough of those in the world already, more than enough in fact. If you just want to push Solaris to compete with Windows, then you need more engineers to produce a MacOS X desktop equivalent on Solaris, be that via GNOME/JDS, KDE, Compiz or by means of whichever vehicle necessary to get to that point. Then Solaris will be able to compete in consumer grade space. And in that space, nobody cares what's under the hood. That's exactly what makes it *consumer grade*. PS : with regard to the doomsday like scenario you've outlined when all of today's engineers fade away.. well it is dramatic and all, but not really how I'd expect things to turn up. The command line tools will certainly remain, and will be used by those with who want the specific uses, but the use of these tools is to get work done, and if GUIs can do that, why not? Because a GUI is *useless* for any kind of serious deployment and work. And this especially concerns huge, geographically distributed, Lights Out Management farms. Lights Out Management modules, Remote Site Managers, or Console Management Switches are irreplaceable in such environments; there is no place for pretty clicky-bunty toys there, and the whole pretty pictures GUI concept collapses in an instant anyway. In other words, it's not consumer grade, nor can consumer-grade stuff touch any of that. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Binary compatibility between OpenSolaris and Sun Solaris? Cross-compile?
UNIX admin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought that it was obvious that an OpenSolaris based product cannot be compatible to Sun Solaris 10. Why would that be obvious? I've compiled binaries on Nevada and ran them on Solaris 10 without a hitch, so no, it is not obvious. The fact that is sometimes works is not granting you that it will always work. And BTW: people who write lines longer than 79 characters are responsible for the fact that there is a high probability that not all of the text is read correctly. Wrapping lines correctly is the job of the MUA. No, it is not. For this reason, the Mail RFC allows a max line length of 78 characters. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: ethernet card not found during installation ?
You were asked to report a bug . It might cause creating a CR (Change Request) It works fine when you perform production support for Enterpise System maintained by Company, paying a good money to software vendor. I am not quite sure that in open source development process it will work as good as it supposed to be.When I take a look at Sun's HCL I truly believe that OpenSolaris project is targeting the only one thing - Enterprise Systems :-). I could page Sun Support Primary for a while, but now when I cannot . This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
Anil Gulecha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not specifically asking for a Solaris port of linux Nero. I'm asking for a well designed GUI for burning CD/DVDs.. if Nero *were* to be ported, it would be a great choice. The problem is thsat many people ask for something to happen instead of helping things to be done. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 02:06 -0700, UNIX admin wrote: My point is, quite simply, if we dumb everything down, once we're gone, the knowledge and experience might very well be lost. Forever. As long as there's one person who still needs to make use of that knowledge and experience, it won't get lost. If there's nobody, and the world is functioning just fine with dumbed-down interfaces, then maybe we were just over-complicating things in the first place :) Antoine de Saint-Exupery said, perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away-- or, in more modern usability parlance, the best UI is no UI. IMHO, the closer we get to that point, the *more* talented computer scientists are required to figure out and implement the increasingly complex hardware and software systems behind those simpler UIs, to compensate for the reduced reliance on traditional user input methods. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]GNOME Desktop Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Binary compatibility between OpenSolaris and Sun Solaris? Cross-compile?
On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 14:01 +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote: UNIX admin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrapping lines correctly is the job of the MUA. No, it is not. For this reason, the Mail RFC allows a max line length of 78 characters. The RFC also says it is encumbant upon implementations which display messages to handle an arbitrarily large number of characters in a line (certainly at least up to the 998 character limit) for the sake of robustness... Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]GNOME Desktop Group http://ie.sun.com +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
Anil Gulecha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not specifically asking for a Solaris port of linux Nero. I'm asking for a well designed GUI for burning CD/DVDs.. if Nero *were* to be ported, it would be a great choice. The problem is thsat many people ask for something to happen instead of helping things to be done. Jörg As stated before, it seems we need the hardware and specs available to the right software engineers that will provide the solution. 1. Sony has a workstation (130G, $1500 USD) and Blu-Ray drives (BWU-100A and BRU-100A (external)). The 25GB Blu-Ray disks cost about $17 USD and the 50GB drives cost about $35 USD. 2. The HD-DVD 15GB disks cost about $14 USD. So maybe provide an OpenSolaris/Solaris 10 workstation with a retrofitted Sony BWU-100A/BRU-100 Blu-Ray drive for remote development purposes and move forward with this project I have immediate access to the hardware - if needed. Ken Mays EarthLink,Inc. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] What is the proper forum to discuss alternate filesystems?
Hi Brian, In particular I am wondering if there is any work done or planned to start supporting additional file systems. Foe example: - jffs2/squashfs I have one student who just started to work on JFFS2 support. Based on docu, just from scratch, it will take some time. Another is working on ext2 native driver, which could be extended to ext3 in the future. And as others wrote, FUSE can be bridge for some other filesystems. Best regards, Milan ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: was something else, now Packaging
Just so I'm clear, the Nexenta design philosophy is (as with many other people) one of the things you're mainly interested in here? Is that what gives rise to most of the sentiments and observations you're expressing here? Nexenta design philosophy? I am not sure what you are referring to here. It is the mode of distribution that is currently lacking imho that is covered by nexenta. The existence of a repository and the ability to create one's own repository and use it to override packages in the distro repository is desirable whether for desktop users who are targeted by software developers/packagers or for data centre environments run by engineers. regards, Christopher Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
UNIX admin wrote: [...] Moinak, I urge you to think carefully one more time about what you've written (an excellent reply BTW). The number of true IT experts and professionals is dwindling exponentially every day. Over here I've got bakers and train drivers and construction workers being hired into IT to write web applications based on Oracle databases! I've got people working as Oracle DBAs on Solaris not knowing how to set up a PATH variable properly! I've got people doing Oracle who don't know how to use RMAN or RAC, let alone know what ZFS is, and that Solaris now runs on the i86pc platform! How many Jeff Bonwicks and Adam Leventhals and Moinak Goshes and Joerg Schillings do you think are left in the world? And how many of them are outside of that small concentrated spot called Menlo Park, CA? Can we dumb things down? Why yes of course we can. Any good engineer can! But what will happen when Jeff Bonwick retires? Or Moinak Ghosh? Or when Joerg ends up in a nursing home? If we don't educate the public, this knowledge will be lost. Who then will be left to develop advanced technologies, to push computer science forward, to have an understanding of why things were implemented the way they were? Just look around you on this mailing list. How many newbies do we see daily complaining why some feature XYZ from their Linux distro isn't present, only because they don't know System V and therefore don't know it's already been there for DECADES? How many people do we have asking about GNU functionality not being present inside of System V tools, because they don't have the knowledge and experience to understand that the point *is not* implementing tools within other tools, but stringing the tools together for maximum flexibility? My point is, quite simply, if we dumb everything down, once we're gone, the knowledge and experience might very well be lost. Forever. And I dread to imagine what IT and CS will look like without it. It's turning into a nightmare already. So this approach of dumbing things down for the newbie can very well turn to be the undoing of IT and CS. Who will be left to work on all this advanced stuff if we raise a generation of clicky-bunty masses? It's already a bad, bad problem today. What will it look like in ten or twenty years from now? You certainly do have a point from a different angle. I'd agree with you on this CS/IT skill thing. I've had CS students asking me: What is Unix ? Is it something similar to Linux ? I have interviewed folks who have done Java Web Services development but did not know how to set the CLASSPATH. For that matter how many of the Visual C++ weenies would have even heard of something called WinMain ? I have seen folks among the IDE crowd having no idea of Event Loops or Makefiles. I have seen many systems programmers who cannot distinguish between systems calls and library functions, or the criteria for claiming to be a systems programmer is to have used open, close, read, write. The list goes on and on. But isn't the root cause of this sad situation at some different point - academics. Isn't it the responsibility of the academic institutions to focus on basics using CLI - IMHO start with BASIC and Shells. Students in a hurry to get projects done use clicky-bunty IDEs to just finish the work. Institutions in a hurry to keep pace with the Industry Buzzwords skip teaching the basics. The problem domain is different and needs to be tackled somewhere else. Keeping the Human-Computer interface un-dumbed and difficult to use won't really achieve the desired result. It will result in the OS in question being ignored and relegated to a niche because there are always alternatives which are easy to use. Ease of use is always a multi-edged sword but is nevertheless necessary and it's definition varies with the target audience. In fact slick interfaces require a lot of skill to develop and maintain - whether it is a slick CLI or a slick GUI. I'd rather be optimistic since there will always be inquisitive people who want to dig underneath the pretty interfaces and get their hands dirty, there will always be hackers, scientists, innovators - human nature, thirst for knowledge after all. How easy it is to use the Computers on board the USS Enterprise NCC 1701, and we still have geniuses like Scotty and La Forge - my kind of future. Regards, Moinak. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
Brian Gupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shouldn't DVD burning be included in this discussion? I need all formats of DVD + and - as well as single and double layer. Well, cdrecord supports this Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: was something else, now Packaging
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Alan DuBoff wrote: ... If Chung wants to help, he should get involved and try to fix it... +1000 ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
ken mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As stated before, it seems we need the hardware and specs available to the right software engineers that will provide the solution. 1. Sony has a workstation (130G, $1500 USD) and Blu-Ray drives (BWU-100A and BRU-100A (external)). The 25GB Blu-Ray disks cost about $17 USD and the 50GB drives cost about $35 USD. 2. The HD-DVD 15GB disks cost about $14 USD. So maybe provide an OpenSolaris/Solaris 10 workstation with a retrofitted Sony BWU-100A/BRU-100 Blu-Ray drive for remote development purposes and move forward with this project I have immediate access to the hardware - if needed. ??? What do you like to tell us here? Do you like to tell me that I should buy a drive and give it to others? This sounds silly. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: was something else, now Packaging
--- UNIX admin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Solaris only needs to improve if Sun wants to stay competitive and grow its market and mind share. If it wasn't for that little hitch, Solaris could remain as painful as your heart desired. Solaris isn't painful, but easy and elegant. It's a matter of opinion, and in particular, it's a matter of computer literacy. Solaris is painful and easy and elegant. The pain comes having to deal with problems due to the fact that certain segment of users are in environments quite different from what most Solaris old hands are in and so their problems have no easy and elegant solution. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
IT maintenance is one thing. Scientific innovation is a different thing altogether. I can tell you this much: the software GUI is not the cause of a degeneration of computer science. There is nothing smart or noble about typing a word instead of clicking a button. If anything, GUIs make life easier for scientists so they can do real work. And real work does not include typing up scripts or console commands to burn CDs or maintain operating systems. PS: If the number of true IT experts and professionals is dwindling exponentially every day, you might say that the free market is letting it happen because it doesn't need them. That observation matters to Sun because they probably want to appeal to the new guard before the old guard retires completely. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] X86 equivalent of probe-scsi-all?
I'm troubleshooting a problem with recognition of an external SCSI tape drive through a KME PCMCIA card bus. I've found references to the openboot probe-scsi-all command but since X86 hardware typically lacks openboot firmware, what is the equivalent of probe-scsi-all on Solaris X86? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
ken mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As stated before, it seems we need the hardware and specs available to the right software engineers that will provide the solution. 1. Sony has a workstation (130G, $1500 USD) and Blu-Ray drives (BWU-100A and BRU-100A (external)). The 25GB Blu-Ray disks cost about $17 USD and the 50GB drives cost about $35 USD. 2. The HD-DVD 15GB disks cost about $14 USD. So maybe provide an OpenSolaris/Solaris 10 workstation with a retrofitted Sony BWU-100A/BRU-100 Blu-Ray drive for remote development purposes and move forward with this project I have immediate access to the hardware - if needed. ??? What do you like to tell us here? Do you like to tell me that I should buy a drive and give it to others? This sounds silly. Jörg - No, why would you do that unless you're being very generous this time of year?!? Xmas is only a few months away... I was asking if you needed immediate access to a Blu-Ray drive and/or workstation for development purposes. I'd gladly donate some funds for hardware if you're willing to provide the solution. Yet, we seem to have multiple requirements. Do we need a GUI tool as well?? A patch to a tool like Gnomebaker or some other tool for GUI desktop usage? Ken Mays EarthLink, Inc. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build?
Hi everyone, Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build? Both of them work on OpenSolaris. KDE 3.4.3 has been built using Sun Studio. It would be great for KDE users (like me) or other XFCE users (I am sure there must be some) KDE is good for the power users , IMHO (I have no intention of a DE flamewar. Just saying some people like KDE or XFCE) Regards Manish PS: Can fluxbox be included as well? begin:vcard fn:Manish Chakravarty n:Chakravarty;Manish org:SpikeSource Inc;Solution Engineering adr:;;;Bangalore;;;India email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Associate Software Developer tel;work:+91-8041810800 tel;fax:+91-8041810800 tel;pager:+91-9901030104 tel;home:+91-9901030104 tel;cell:+91-9901030104 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://manish-chaks.livejournal.com version:2.1 end:vcard signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build?
On 4/24/07, Manish Chakravarty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build? Both of them work on OpenSolaris. KDE 3.4.3 has been built using Sun Studio. It would be great for KDE users (like me) or other XFCE users (I am sure there must be some) KDE is good for the power users , IMHO (I have no intention of a DE flamewar. Just saying some people like KDE or XFCE) XFCE 4.4.1 just hit the testing stage here : http://www.blastwave.org/testing/index_cron.html see the files for xfce from a few days ago. Feel free to download and *test* .. this will hit the unstable repository shortly and then it can be had via pkg-get as per usual. Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build?
Manish Chakravarty wrote: Hi everyone, Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build If you wish to have an OpenSolaris related discussion on this I highly suggest that [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the appropriate alias and please look at what is going on in the desktop community first: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop or more specifically: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop/communities/kde and http://opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop/communities/xfce/ and http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/xfce/ Now which distribution are you talking about ? If this is Sun's Solaris Express releases then the answer is no, not for the next build because that just isn't enough time (builds are done every two weeks). However it could be possible to do this if you or someone else is willing to do the work to integrate them into Sun's Solaris distribution. In the case of KDE I highly suspect his means creating a new consolidation which is a non trivial amount of work. The very important thing that would need to be done is actually convincing Sun's marketing that they should include KDE in Solaris Express. This is something that is best addressed directly with Sun not on this OpenSolaris alias I'm afraid. This would be similar to convincing any Linux distribution to include multiple DEs - some do and some don't. On the other hand if what you want is a distribution based on OpenSolaris that uses KDE then that already exists in the form of Belenix. Hope this helps explain the situation and your choices. -- Darren J Moffat ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Annoyances watching discussion forums.
Another annoyance. I keep getting emails about 'discuss' forum. The unfortunate thing is that their are multiple forums named discuss, and there really doesn't seem to be an east way to distinguish between them. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Noob needs some help with wireless network adaptor
hello all. the title says it all. Im currently downloading Solaris 10 and...its my first time migrating to open-source OSes. my current PC is a 2.4GHz Intel Celeron D (which is of the X86 architecture, isnt it?), 512MB od DDR RAM and 80GB harddisk space, and a Samsung CD-ROM drive. My system 'should' be able to run Solaris 10, doesnt it? and now, for the main problem. for internet access, i currently am using a wireless network G-adaptor by linksys, the WUSB54G. I did some reading up and found that it is possible to use NDISwrapper to custom build Windows drivers into Solaris ones. however, i have no idea if the WUSG54G wireless G-adaptor drivers are supported by NDISwrapper (some say they are, some say they arent). And even of it is supported, just how do i re-make the Windows drivers for the G-adaptor into Solaris ones using NDISwrapper? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build?
On 4/24/07, Alan Coopersmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Manish Chakravarty wrote: Hi everyone, Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build? OpenSolaris has no builds to include them in - it's a source base for distros to be built from, and I believe a couple of the distros already include those. If you're referring to the Solaris Express Community Edition ISO's, then you will need to convince Sun to take on the burden of building, shipping, and supporting them - which at the minimum will require reviews by the Architecture Review Committee (ARC) and Sun's Product management committees, which for KDE would probably take closer to months than the 2 weeks between each build cycle. (That is not trying to say that there's anything wrong with KDE, just that it's a very large body of work to review - the original GNOME reviews took many months too.) or .. for the sake of just doing it you could always do a pkg-get -i xfce and then you have XFCE 4.4.1 but with no support. That's the same thing you get will almost all the open source GNUish non-OpenSolaris stuff anyways. So .. XFCE 4.4.1 will be released from Blastwave in the next few days. I just have to make some screenshots and write a quick report .. then its out. William Bonnet in France did all the hard work on this and it runs on Solaris 8 and 9 and 10 and should run just fine on the snv_XX releases from Sun. Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
ken mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was asking if you needed immediate access to a Blu-Ray drive and/or workstation for development purposes. I'd gladly donate some funds for hardware if you're willing to provide the solution. Do you have a Blu Ray drive in a machine and could give me a login on that machine? Yet, we seem to have multiple requirements. Do we need a GUI tool as well?? A patch to a tool like Gnomebaker or some other tool for GUI desktop usage? I am only focussed to the cdrtools CLI tools. GUI aspects should be discussed wth someione else ;-) Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris
Brian Gupta wrote: ISO's, then you will need to convince Sun to take on the burden of building, shipping, and supporting them - which at the minimum will require reviews by the Architecture Review Committee (ARC) and Sun's Product management committees, which for KDE would probably take closer to months than the 2 weeks between each build cycle. (That is not trying to say that there's anything wrong with KDE, just that it's a very large body of work to review - the original GNOME reviews took many months too.) Are you saying that only Sun employees can build and maintain packages for inclusion in Solaris Express? At the moment yes.There's no way for a non Sun employee to deliver built packages to the Solaris Express docks where the install images are built. Could that change? I don't know...it's not something I've ever heard anyone talk about changing, but I don't know why it couldn't if Sun chose to open up the building of their binary distro. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build?
Hey, For Xfce on Solaris 8, 9, 10, I would suggest you use the blastwave packages (Note: They are built for Solaris 8 - no DBUS, HAL etc). For Solaris Express = build 61, there is now a Xfce (+extras) binary release for x86 hardware (sorry no SPARC yet) on the Open Solaris Xfce project site. Anywhere in between, you should build from the spec files. To add something like Xfce to Solaris Express would mean that it will need to go through ARC and Sun's Marketing and Legal Departments. You have to remember that Solaris Express is a Sun distribution. Other distros can easily include it if they wish. May be a compromise would be to include a nice script to do the download and install of Xfce (or KDE) after the install. A semi-automated compiz+Xfce+KDE (JDS CBE and SFE...) script would be nice. Doug Hi everyone, Could we have XFCE/KDE in the next OpenSolaris build? Both of them work on OpenSolaris. KDE 3.4.3 has been built using Sun Studio. It would be great for KDE users (like me) or other XFCE users (I am sure there must be some) KDE is good for the power users , IMHO (I have no intention of a DE flamewar. Just saying some people like KDE or XFCE) Regards Manish PS: Can fluxbox be included as well? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Noob needs some help with wireless network adaptor
I don't know about that specific WiFi adapter, but you're more likely to have support for Wifi with recent Solaris Nevada builds rather than Solaris 10. Unless you intend to buy support or need to something specific to Solaris 10, I'd recommend Solaris Express Developer Edition: http://developers.sun.com/solaris/downloads/solexpdev/ Your laptop should be sufficient to run either Solaris 10 or Open Solaris distributions such as Nevada, Nexenta, Belenix and Schillix but it would be happier with more memory. I'm currently installing SXDE on a Sony PCG-GRZ615G with only 256MB of RAM. The installer will go into text mode and I don't think anyone will be impressed with the performance of a low memory machine, but it is possible. As they say, your mileage may vary. qwerty wrote: hello all. the title says it all. Im currently downloading Solaris 10 and...its my first time migrating to open-source OSes. my current PC is a 2.4GHz Intel Celeron D (which is of the X86 architecture, isnt it?), 512MB od DDR RAM and 80GB harddisk space, and a Samsung CD-ROM drive. My system 'should' be able to run Solaris 10, doesnt it? and now, for the main problem. for internet access, i currently am using a wireless network G-adaptor by linksys, the WUSB54G. I did some reading up and found that it is possible to use NDISwrapper to custom build Windows drivers into Solaris ones. however, i have no idea if the WUSG54G wireless G-adaptor drivers are supported by NDISwrapper (some say they are, some say they arent). And even of it is supported, just how do i re-make the Windows drivers for the G-adaptor into Solaris ones using NDISwrapper? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
ken mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was asking if you needed immediate access to a Blu-Ray drive and/or workstation for development purposes. I'd gladly donate some funds for hardware if you're willing to provide the solution. Do you have a Blu Ray drive in a machine and could give me a login on that machine? Yet, we seem to have multiple requirements. Do we need a GUI tool as well?? A patch to a tool like Gnomebaker or some other tool for GUI desktop usage? I am only focussed to the cdrtools CLI tools. GUI aspects should be discussed wth someione else ;-) Jörg --- 1. I'll get a machine set up. Let me know if you need Solaris 10 or SXCE (what build) and we can go from there. ~ Ken __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
UNIX admin wrote: My point is, quite simply, if we dumb everything down, I'm glad we've managed to dumb things way down in the last 20 years: No longer do we need to wire up plugboards to program the mainframes. No longer do we need to toggle front panel switches to bootstrap a system. No longer do we need to write in assembly language (or machine code or ...) No longer do we need to ... add your own list ... My point is that a good engineer can identify and remove gratuitous or unneeded complexity (or abstract it safely away behind an API) such that the rest of us can stand on their shoulders and reach much higher. -John ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
ken mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you have a Blu Ray drive in a machine and could give me a login on that machine? --- 1. I'll get a machine set up. Let me know if you need Solaris 10 or SXCE (what build) and we can go from there. As Nevada by default uses DMA for CD/DVD drives and as DMA is needed, a Nevada installation would be nice. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
You certainly do have a point from a different angle. I'd agree with you on this CS/IT skill thing. I've had CS students asking me: What is Unix ? Is it something similar to Linux ? I have interviewed folks who have done Java Web Services development but did not know how to set the CLASSPATH. For that matter how many of the Visual C++ weenies would have even heard of something called WinMain ? [snipped for brevity] ... The list goes on and on. But isn't the root cause of this sad situation at some different point - academics. Isn't it the responsibility of the academic institutions to focus on basics using CLI - IMHO start with BASIC and Shells. Yes, yes it is. Of course it is! I couldn't agree more with you. However, IT / CS are very specific. By spawning IT as a product of CS, CS has effectively become an industry. And the thing is this: why would anybody spend their time fangling with students, if they are really a CS / IT expert, when they could be raking in the cash working in the industry? And we can't really fault people for that; it's in the human nature to want to live comfortably. In addition to that, there are very few people, me included, that truly *enjoy* teaching what they know and transferring knowledge to others. It's just much easier to scrap all that and work for a corporation! The problem domain is different and needs to be tackled somewhere else. I remember when I was going to school. During my student days, at the onset of the dot-com boom, we were going through teachers / professors / instructors like underwear; and anybody who was worth anything left to work for some corp raking up to 2.5 times more than what they were being paid in academia. Consequently, there aren't very many Dijkstras and Knuths left teaching CS. That's our problem! It's up to us to address this problem, because obviously it won't get solved by itself. And obviously academia will not become lucrative enough to attract exactly what CS needs - experienced professionals and veterans of the industry teaching real world knowledge to students. So, what do you propose we do? Keeping the Human-Computer interface un-dumbed and difficult to use won't really achieve the desired result. I grudgingly admit you have a point. It's a different construction site though: human-computer interface is for a general consumer, and will never be able to cope with requirements of professionals because it is either cumbersome to build all the functionality in it (monolithic Microsoft approach), or it will always lag behind the newest CLI executable (as is the case with MacOS X / Apple approach). So if you want to make Solaris closer to the general consumer, you will need even more engineers and possibly a collaboration with Apple (it has been hinted here that bringing Aqua-like functionality and Solaris would be unprecedented in terms of functionality). I'd rather be optimistic since there will always be inquisitive people who want to dig underneath the pretty interfaces and get their hands dirty, there will always be hackers, scientists, innovators - human nature, thirst for knowledge after all. Believe it or not, but that largely depends on one nation's mentality. 99% of the people here don't want anything to do with a computer. They'd rather spend obscene amounts of money for an appliance. I mean, we're talking about people who even put appliances in big enterprises, just so they wouldn't have to develop expertise! Perhaps you live in a different world. I did once too. Which is why where I'm at now is a nightmare in terms of computer curiosity. Nobody cares about that stuff around here. How easy it is to use the Computers on board the USS Enterprise NCC 1701, and we still have geniuses like Scotty and La Forge - my kind of future. Mine too. But it requires something we currently neither have, nor are on the way of achieving with the current computing: a whole different computing model. Computers and technologies as we know them today will be incapable of reaching that kind of intelligence. Don't forget - in StarTrek computers don't have chips - but half-alive neural nets! This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Overview (rollup) of recent activity on opensolaris-discuss
For background on what this is, see: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=24416#24416 http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/message.jspa?messageID=25200#25200 = opensolaris-discuss 04/01 - 04/15 = Size of all threads during period: Thread size Topic --- - 51 joining Sun 40 xpg/bin/tr unexpect output on Sparc? 38 was something else, now Packaging 26 Project proposal : busybox-ksh93 26 ON C-Team or how to make the process more open 26 Fresh Install Problems 24 Can not create /home/foo 22 How To Install Solaris 10 : A Step by Step Guide 19 no CDDL on /bin/which 19 Marc Hamilton, Introduction 16 Poor SATA performance on x86 16 PROJECT PROPOSAL - CPK Cryptosystem 13 Audio File Support 10 Xorg blows up on SXCE B61 10 Spam mails... 10 Solaris on Intel's Classmate PC? 8 Workspace tools 8 Project Proposal: Tesla, Solaris Enhanced Power Management 8 PROJECT PROPOSAL - CPK Cryptosystem) 7 snv_61 system/webconsole:console failed fatally 6 Where can I get `pic' preprocessor? 6 Solaris 10: The Complete Reference 6 Noob with a couple questions 6 How to color vim in OS 6 Heads-up: ZFS Boot support for the x86 platform bld 62 6 Disk I/O error handling in SVM or shared qfs 5 simple Raid-Z question 5 b61 install with the sunsuite 11 compiler... 5 Unable to register or update 5 PROJECT PROPOSAL - Tadpole platform support 5 Best option for upgrading a liveupgrade environment? 4 vncviewer snv60 x86 4 scg driver doesn't load on build 41 4 limit number of sftp/scp sessions 4 Zone Stability (Crash of Global Zone?) 4 Upnp server to solaris 4 The shell project now open... 4 Solaris parted 4 Problem connecting to the internet 4 Latest opensolaris VMware image 4 How dose a nexus driver look for its child devices? 4 After an abruptly power off, system is not booting in Multi-User mode 4 doesn=E2=80=99t_recogni?= =?utf-8?q?ze_=09linux_partitions 3 group ,limit for users 3 Zfs pool status UNAVAIL 3 Trouble booting foo1/unix 3 Symlinks and memory sticks 3 Solaris Express Developer Edition (build 59) on ASUS P5B Deluxe AHCI mode 3 Project Proposal : Solaris Open Fabrics User Verbs /API Support 3 OpenSolaris tracks during CommunityOne day at JavaOne 3 NexentaOS GNU/OpenSolaris - build 61 upgrade 3 New to OS; Request for basic information. 3 New F/OSS reference document spanning multiple projects 3 Need help getting audio driver to work 3 Login font 3 Installing PHP on SunOS 5.8 3 How do I dual boot my machine? 3 Driver for Marvel Youkon Gigabit Ethernet Adapter under SNV_59(64bit) 2 rbac 2 changing package parameters 2 To checkout opensolaris code 2 SXCE Build 61 available 2 Problem with install Solaris CD (sol-9-905hw-ga-sparc-v2) 2 Mapping downloaded source to builds 2 Installing Sol 10 x86 on Dell Latitude D820 2 How to initiate a distro ? 2 E_SEC_SHELL_WARN ( running lint ) 2 Differences between Vermillion and Community Edition 2 Dangling /dev/rdsk entries remaining. Cleanup issue 2 Build your own custom sparc livecd 2 Erreur de syntaxe avec IPNAT 1 working XVR-100_Ultra60 startlog in comparision: / mod.src tree / 1 wholesaler nike jordan shoes gucci prada shoes 1 schedule for KDE 3.5.x? 1 ipf.conf replyto syntax 1 devfsadm -r /mnt -p /mnt/etc/path_to_inst 1 bug id 6503848 : still around ? 1 blastware CD Subscriptions 1 [summerofcode] Reviewing projects, assigning mentors 1 [discuss] Project proposal: Input Method Project 1 [discuss] PROJECT PROPOSAL - CPK Cryptosystem 1 ZFS boot: a new heads-up 1 What's Going on at JavaOne 2007? 1 WPC54G version2 and NDIS Wrapper Toolkit 1 USB issue (snv build 59) on ASUS P5B Deluxe 1 Translating LPI certifications for OpenSolaris 1 Thunderbird 2.0.0.0rc1 contrib. builds on Solaris10, Solaris8/9 are available 1 Sun Cluster 1 Solaris 10 on Inspiron 6000 1 SXCE Build 62 delayed 1 SNV_59 does recognize linux partitions existing on second SATA HDD
[osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
PS: If the number of true IT experts and professionals is dwindling exponentially every day, you might say that the free market is letting it happen because it doesn't need them. That observation matters to Sun because they probably want to appeal to the new guard before the old guard retires completely. The reality is that the market is hurting real, real bad. It's never been this bad before. I've got people that are basically charalatans. Solaris test engineers, that spend two hours every day manually logging into servers and doing `ps -ef` to see if an app is running. Administrators creating home directories in /usr/local and blaming Solaris zones for the fact that stuff doesn't work afterwards. People writing shell wrapper scripts in which they are hacking up LD_LIBRARY_PATH just to get SSH to work, because the firm didn't know how to compile the product properly. Packages that you don't even dare install with -R because they barely work as it is... It is BAD. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
I'm glad we've managed to dumb things way down in the last 20 years: ... No longer do we need to write in assembly language (or machine code or ...) And that's a good thing? That we now have compilers generating bloated code that make it unthinkable to run a modern GUI? Hey, I was coding realtime, *smooth* multimedia stuff on a 7MHz processor inside of 16KB worth of assembler code! How much faster would it have been if I had even a 40MHz CPU! Just look at people doing realtime Goraud shading inside a few KB worth of assembler code on a 0.99MHz Commodore 64! For crying out loud, we were competing whose depack routine had the least number of *bytes* (48 *byte* depack routine was the record). And we've progressed... how exactly? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
UNIX admin wrote: I'm glad we've managed to dumb things way down in the last 20 years: ... No longer do we need to write in assembly language (or machine code or ...) And that's a good thing? That we now have compilers generating bloated code that make it unthinkable to run a modern GUI? Hey, I was coding realtime, *smooth* multimedia stuff on a 7MHz processor inside of 16KB worth of assembler code! How much faster would it have been if I had even a 40MHz CPU! Just look at people doing realtime Goraud shading inside a few KB worth of assembler code on a 0.99MHz Commodore 64! For crying out loud, we were competing whose depack routine had the least number of *bytes* (48 *byte* depack routine was the record). And we've progressed... how exactly? ... and my parents walked to school uphill both ways in the snow barefoot. We've progressed to the point that nobody cares and we can think about higher level constructs. If you want to stick with the arcane knowledge that you have accumulated, then fine. Nobody is taking that away from you. But don't try and stop progress and development merely because you don't want to know about it, or use it. cheers, steve -- stephen lau // [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 650.786.0845 | http://whacked.net opensolaris // solaris kernel development ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
P.S. - I can't believe some people are actually advocating making a tool harder to use just so people will be forced to learn the underlying technology. That completely defeats the purpose of technological progress!! If you're referring to me, you got it wrong. I don't believe cdrecord should be made harder to use. I even wrote there's an equivalent for Nero, as have others as well. But if all you wanted to do is just get stuff out of your computer, then why are you here? Why Solaris? Somebody with that kind of mentality can be perfectly happy on Windows. If you don't care about how it all works, you don't need the most advanced operating system on the planet. Windows will do. If all you care about is getting from point A to point B, any cheapo car will do. You don't need a Bugatti Veyron, and you shouldn't expect a Bugatti Veyron to be the same to use as a KIA, Citroen or Renault. If you do, then get a KIA, Citroen, or Renault. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Micro-optimizing for the wrong thing - coding efficiencies -vs- processor speeds
UNIX admin wrote: And we've progressed... how exactly? Look at Google Sketchup for a great example of the virtues of being able to spend developer energies on 2nd and 3rd order features like intuitive ease of use and great tutorials rather than on counting bytes in rendering subroutines. It is all about costs. Back in your C64 days, hardware was expensive and coding time cheap - or at least cheaper than non-existent hardware. Now, with a couple of 2Ghz processor cores and a few GB of RAM, not to mention 3d hardware graphics engines, outboard IO processors and ubiquitous network bandwidth on a $2k laptop, look at what Apple has been able to produce. Those 200 byte BASIC interpreters and 48 byte renderers etc are now relegated to custom silicon - BASIC-Stamps and GPUs - that are good enuf for the rest of us. Case in point: My first programming job was to support an engineering lab system - running a 4Mhz Z80 with 48KB of memory. It cost about $10k back in 1980. We spent significant time and effort optimizing code so that students could use the system to solve 5x5 and 6x6 arrays of simultaneous equations, instructors could manage grades and the rest of us could simply hack and have fun. Nowdays I can buy a Microchip PIC processor development kit with more processing power than that system for about $100; the all-in-one processor in it runs about $6 (I use several dozen to run my model train layout...). Our daughter has a $60 TI graphing calculator of her own that blows the socks off of that old Northstar Horizon system. Do I care that she isn't learning to microoptimize assembly code on a Z80? Hell no - she is off exploring trig, calculus, graphical analysis of complex systems, robotics and the like. So what if she burns all the resources of her Macbook doing inefficient things like Sketchup, iTunes, Java and Robotics? Or if I burn a whole PIC doing nothing but driving a few turnouts on my layout? Thats what they are for - tools to learn and build greater things. Besides, next year things will be faster and cheaper still. Is the glass half empty or half full? -John ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
But if all you wanted to do is just get stuff out of your computer, then why are you here? Why Solaris? Somebody with that kind of mentality can be perfectly happy on Windows. If you don't care about how it all works, you don't need the most advanced operating system on the planet. Windows will do. First, I don't necessarily agree that Solaris is the undisputed most advanced OS on the Planet. Solaris and x86 have a long way to go before they catch up to the mainframe. As for why Solaris, because I know Solaris. I work with Solaris, and for the most part like working with Solaris. And to your point, I don't run Solaris as a desktop. It is missing too much. To me Solaris always has been and probably always will be a server OS. Currently I run Windows. So I use Roxio or Nero to do my burns. I may switch to MacOS. If all you care about is getting from point A to point B, any cheapo car will do. You don't need a Bugatti Veyron, and you shouldn't expect a Bugatti Veyron to be the same to use as a KIA, Citroen or Renault. If you do, then get a KIA, Citroen, or Renault. Bad analogy, a better analogy would be to say that the advanced Buggati requires you to use non-standard steering controls that involve two retractable steering lever arms that alow you to independantly contol each wheel. Bugatti would not force their customers to use this technically superior control system, that takes years to master. Why should a desktop OS force their users to learn an unfamiliar control system, when there is a standard paradym that over 998% of the world uses? The Window, Icon and Desktop metaphor. (MacOS, Windows, KDE, Gnome, FVWM, NextStep, CDE...etc...etc...etc) -Brian This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] NexentaOS at OSDEVCON demos
3 little demos by Martin Man. Available as of today. http://martinman.net/software/nexenta Thanks Martin. Enjoy! -- Erast ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Project Overview: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data services exist today and are distributed commercially by Sun as the Sun StorageTek Storage Archive Manager and Sun StorageTek QFS shared file system. The software is delivered unbundled commercially for Solaris 9 and 10, but also is compiled for and runs on Open Solaris. Project Description: Although SAM/QFS are positioned and marketed as two separate data services, they are really a single code base. SAM is the Storage Archive Manager component and consists of a policy based HSM. QFS is a shared or cluster file system for Solaris, and supports shared QFS Linux clients. The QFS shared file system is a high-performance, 64-bit Solaris file system. This file system ensures that data is available at device-rated speeds when requested by one or more users. The QFS shared file system supports from 1 to 128 compute nodes to allow file sharing to scale with computational needs. QFS is ideally suited for Oracle RAC users and applications with a streaming I/O profile SAM is tightly integrated with QFS, and adds the features of a storage archive manager to QFS. A SAM-QFS file system configuration allows data to be archived to and retrieved from local or remote automated tape libraries or disk at device-rated speeds. SAM manages QFS data online, nearline, and offline automatically and in a manner that is transparent to the user or application. Users read and write files to a SAM-QFS file system as though all files were on primary storage. In addition, SAM protects QFS file system data continually, automatically, and unobtrusively. Multiple file copies can be made to many media types and storage tiers in a standard OPEN format. This minimizes the requirement for traditional back-up only and provides fast disaster recovery in an effective long-term data storage solution. A SAM-QFS file system configuration is especially suited to data-intensive applications that require a scalable and flexible storage solution, superior data protection, and fast disaster recovery. This solution also includes an integrated non-mirroring volume manager for performance, automated and flexible policy management, and browser-based management tools. Community Involvement: By open sourcing SAM and QFS software, we will enhance OpenSolaris as a storage platform. Those that adopt OpenSolaris will benefit from an open storage platform, while providing valuable feedback to the commercially distributed software sold and supported by Sun. We plan to develop our next release of SAM/QFS in the Open Source community, so we invite community feedback on our work in progress. We intend to make periodic (every few weeks) code drops to the project page for download by the community. The longer term strategy will be to migrate from CVS to Mercurial as a source control tool and make the repository part of the open source project. This will allow the community to comment on features and our code base as we work through the development phase of the next and future commercial releases of this software.Additionally, it will allow for community contributions. A complete set of the Sun StorageTek SAM and Sun StorageTek QFS administration guides can be found at: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/QFS4_6 http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/SAM4_6 Community Leaders: Svati Chandra Narula Ted Pogue Harriet Coverston Cindy Dyrness SAM/QFS - New Solaris Storage Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Ted Pogue wrote: Project Overview: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data services exist today and are distributed commercially by Sun as the Sun StorageTek Storage Archive Manager and Sun StorageTek QFS shared file system. The software is delivered unbundled commercially for Solaris 9 and 10, but also is compiled for and runs on Open Solaris. [snip] +1 Bye, Roland -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) [EMAIL PROTECTED] \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, CJAVASunUnix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 7950090 (;O/ \/ \O;) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Is there a plan to incorporate this into Solaris Express? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Ted Pogue writes: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data Wow! +1 from me. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Network card install help
Ok, I have finally been able to install the nfo drivers onto my machine and setup all the usual networking files to set my device to static ip. Alas, I still have no network access! I cannot ping my router and have run out of ideas on how I can troubleshoot why I am not able to get solaris to play nice with my nic. I have tested the cable and port with my laptop and it works. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to troubleshoot a NIC. Is there a way to get insight into whether solaris is actually communicating with my nic and also to see if any errors are been returned. Basically I want to see the communication between the OS and card. What should I look for in terms of verifying that at least on the OS level things are working as they should be and then how do I work myself towards been able to ping the network. One thing is for sure, I cannot get DHCP to work because after running sys-unconfig and then trying to setup DHCP the system returns a flat out, NO. Any trouble shooting help is appreciated. I have seen other people have success with this driver and my chipset, but it wasnt an identical motherboard, so maybe that is my problem. Also, any chance the latest version of Solaris Express will work better for my NIC? I have the version prior right now. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
EXCELLENT! +1! -dt Ted Pogue wrote On 04/24/07 13:57,: Project Overview: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data services exist today and are distributed commercially by Sun as the Sun StorageTek Storage Archive Manager and Sun StorageTek QFS shared file system. The software is delivered unbundled commercially for Solaris 9 and 10, but also is compiled for and runs on Open Solaris. Project Description: Although SAM/QFS are positioned and marketed as two separate data services, they are really a single code base. SAM is the Storage Archive Manager component and consists of a policy based HSM. QFS is a shared or cluster file system for Solaris, and supports shared QFS Linux clients. The QFS shared file system is a high-performance, 64-bit Solaris file system. This file system ensures that data is available at device-rated speeds when requested by one or more users. The QFS shared file system supports from 1 to 128 compute nodes to allow file sharing to scale with computational needs. QFS is ideally suited for Oracle RAC users and applications with a streaming I/O profile SAM is tightly integrated with QFS, and adds the features of a storage archive manager to QFS. A SAM-QFS file system configuration allows data to be archived to and retrieved from local or remote automated tape libraries or disk at device-rated speeds. SAM manages QFS data online, nearline, and offline automatically and in a manner that is transparent to the user or application. Users read and write files to a SAM-QFS file system as though all files were on primary storage. In addition, SAM protects QFS file system data continually, automatically, and unobtrusively. Multiple file copies can be made to many media types and storage tiers in a standard OPEN format. This minimizes the requirement for traditional back-up only and provides fast disaster recovery in an effective long-term data storage solution. A SAM-QFS file system configuration is especially suited to data-intensive applications that require a scalable and flexible storage solution, superior data protection, and fast disaster recovery. This solution also includes an integrated non-mirroring volume manager for performance, automated and flexible policy management, and browser-based management tools. Community Involvement: By open sourcing SAM and QFS software, we will enhance OpenSolaris as a storage platform. Those that adopt OpenSolaris will benefit from an open storage platform, while providing valuable feedback to the commercially distributed software sold and supported by Sun. We plan to develop our next release of SAM/QFS in the Open Source community, so we invite community feedback on our work in progress. We intend to make periodic (every few weeks) code drops to the project page for download by the community. The longer term strategy will be to migrate from CVS to Mercurial as a source control tool and make the repository part of the open source project. This will allow the community to comment on features and our code base as we work through the development phase of the next and future commercial releases of this software.Additionally, it will allow for community contributions. A complete set of the Sun StorageTek SAM and Sun StorageTek QFS administration guides can be found at: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/QFS4_6 http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/SAM4_6 Community Leaders: Svati Chandra Narula Ted Pogue Harriet Coverston Cindy Dyrness SAM/QFS - New Solaris Storage Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org -- http://www.sun.com/solaris *Don Traub* Senior Engineering Manager, Solaris Data Technology *Sun Microsystems, Inc.* 500 Eldorado Blvd., MS UBRM05-171 Broomfield, CO. 80021 Phone x41860/303-547-3537 Cell 303-888-0683 Fax 303-272-7736 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sun.com/solaris ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Ted Pogue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Project Overview: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data services exist today and are distributed commercially by Sun as the Sun StorageTek Storage Archive Manager and Sun StorageTek QFS shared file system. The software is delivered unbundled commercially for Solaris 9 and 10, but also is compiled for and runs on Open Solaris. While doing this is a really good idea, I see potential name conflicts with older softare. Since 20..25 years, I create and publish programs like: smake, star, sformat, sfind (a bit newer), and I recently got some information that SAMFS may include progran names like star and sfind. I support this project, but I would like to see that the programs are renamed into something like: 'sam*' in order to avoid confusion. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Joerg Schilling wrote: Ted Pogue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Project Overview: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data services exist today and are distributed commercially by Sun as the Sun StorageTek Storage Archive Manager and Sun StorageTek QFS shared file system. The software is delivered unbundled commercially for Solaris 9 and 10, but also is compiled for and runs on Open Solaris. While doing this is a really good idea, I see potential name conflicts with older softare. Since 20..25 years, I create and publish programs like: smake, star, sformat, sfind (a bit newer), and I recently got some information that SAMFS may include progran names like star and sfind. I support this project, but I would like to see that the programs are renamed into something like: 'sam*' in order to avoid confusion. Jörg Considering these are currently unbundled and shipping products, that might be hard. I.e., would you want to tell customers that they need to learn new commands, change all of their scripts, etc? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
On 4/24/07, UNIX admin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The number of true IT experts and professionals is dwindling exponentially every day. Dindling exponentially? Where are they all going? Perhaps systems are getting harder to use so professionals are lkess productive and we nee more ofthem? I've got people working as Oracle DBAs on Solaris not knowing how to set up a PATH variable properly! Seriously, why should they care about an ancient implementation artefact? Why isn't their PATH just set properly anyway so they can get right on and do the work they're paid for? Can we dumb things down? Is it actually dumbing down? Or making things easier to use? My time - and that of users and customers - is precious, and we should do everything we can to provide tools that aid users make the best use of their precious time. Good graphical interfaces that can be used without effort do just that. (The downside to this argument is that most GUI interfaces - like most CLI interfaces - are badly designed, user hostile, and don't really make the user's life better. We shouldn't accept that, but should strive to make tools that are easier to use and that users are comfortable with.) (As an anecdote of marginal relevance to the original subject, I once tried at home to put some images on a CD. The home PC was simply incapable of doing this - it had numerous tools that cliamed to be able to do this, both bundled and unbundled. After a few failures it was starting to become a challenge, so I persevered. Some applications had incomprehensible user interfaces that made it impossible to do simple things like select the files I wanted; others refused to recognize the CD writer; the rest produced coasters. In disgust I turned the Solaris box on and had written the CD in a few minutes. But the command line was far harder than a well designed GUI *should* have been.) So this approach of dumbing things down for the newbie can very well turn to be the undoing of IT and CS. Who will be left to work on all this advanced stuff if we raise a generation of clicky-bunty masses? The people with the talent to do the advanced stuff will do it anyway. And they will choose to work on those platforms that they find to have value to them. Which, by and large, will have user-friendly ways of making their whole lives easier. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Tom Haynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering these are currently unbundled and shipping products, that might be hard. I.e., would you want to tell customers that they need to learn new commands, change all of their scripts, etc? Does this mean that my fears are correct? Consdering the fact that a lot more people know the real star and that there is already an aproved ARC case to integrate star into /usr/bin, would you like to confuse customers? Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
On 4/24/07, Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted Pogue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Project Overview: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data services exist today and are distributed commercially by Sun as the Sun StorageTek Storage Archive Manager and Sun StorageTek QFS shared file system. The software is delivered unbundled commercially for Solaris 9 and 10, but also is compiled for and runs on Open Solaris. While doing this is a really good idea, I see potential name conflicts with older softare. Since 20..25 years, I create and publish programs like: smake, star, sformat, sfind (a bit newer), I think it is better to rename such tools to schillymake, schillytar, schillyformat or put them into usr/schilly/bin. Holger ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
On 4/24/07, Tom Haynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joerg Schilling wrote: Ted Pogue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Project Overview: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data services exist today and are distributed commercially by Sun as the Sun StorageTek Storage Archive Manager and Sun StorageTek QFS shared file system. The software is delivered unbundled commercially for Solaris 9 and 10, but also is compiled for and runs on Open Solaris. While doing this is a really good idea, I see potential name conflicts with older softare. Since 20..25 years, I create and publish programs like: smake, star, sformat, sfind (a bit newer), and I recently got some information that SAMFS may include progran names like star and sfind. I support this project, but I would like to see that the programs are renamed into something like: 'sam*' in order to avoid confusion. Jörg Considering these are currently unbundled and shipping products, that might be hard. I.e., would you want to tell customers that they need to learn new commands, change all of their scripts, etc? I agree. May be better to put the Schilly tools into a separate directory (/usr/schilly/bin) or rename them. Holger ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
On 4/24/07, Joerg Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Haynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering these are currently unbundled and shipping products, that might be hard. I.e., would you want to tell customers that they need to learn new commands, change all of their scripts, etc? Does this mean that my fears are correct? Consdering the fact that a lot more people know the real star and that there is already an aproved ARC case to integrate star into /usr/bin, would you like to confuse customers? I think renaming the existing samfs tools would be more confusing. Backwards compatibility is more important than name collisions with a tool (star) which does not ship with Solaris yet. Holger ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
On 4/24/07, Ted Pogue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Project Overview: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. These data services exist today and are distributed commercially by Sun as the Sun StorageTek Storage Archive Manager and Sun StorageTek QFS shared file system. The software is delivered unbundled commercially for Solaris 9 and 10, but also is compiled for and runs on Open Solaris. +1 Holger ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Ted Pogue wrote: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. The project proposal draft being considered by the OGB right now would require all Projects to be affiliated with one of the existing community groups - would it be fair to assume this project will be affiliated with the existing Storage community? Have the Storage community leaders agreed to this affiliation? -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
community groups - would it be fair to assume this project will be affiliated with the existing Storage community? I have been told that there is going to be a new file system community soon. This seems to be the ideal fit. -brian This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: SXCE build 62
Hi, Its a Ultra 45 Workstation so there is no RCS, Openboot is/was updated tó latest for a few weeks ago when the machine arrived. System PROM revisions: -- OBP 4.22.19 2006/09/06 23:42 Sun Ultra 45 Workstation POST 4.22.19 2006/09/07 00:06 - The machine is now running b61 perfectly! The install was from boot net - install not CDROM. -bash-3.00$ cat /etc/release Solaris Nevada snv_61 SPARC Copyright 2007 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Use is subject to license terms. Assembled 26 March 2007 /michael This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Alan Coopersmith wrote: Ted Pogue wrote: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. The project proposal draft being considered by the OGB right now would require all Projects to be affiliated with one of the existing community groups - would it be fair to assume this project will be affiliated with the existing Storage community? Have the Storage community leaders agreed to this affiliation? Yes, we actually did a dry run on the proposal yesterday. It was a lively discussion. And I'll take your point as an issue for us to make sure new proposals list which communities are going to host it. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Ted Pogue wrote: I propose the creation of a project on opensolaris.org, to bring to the community Solaris host-based data services; namely the Storage Archive Manager or SAM and the Solaris shared file system QFS. The project proposal draft being considered by the OGB right now would require all Projects to be affiliated with one of the existing community groups - would it be fair to assume this project will be affiliated with the existing Storage community? Have the Storage community leaders agreed to this affiliation? AlanC, What if you just make it a condition that Ted needs to get the affiliation? If it's just a formality that Ted didn't get an affiliation from an existing community, I would affiliate with the Device Driver community, which filesystems stradle on. It belongs affiliated with storage though.;-) Is that draft you mention going to have an ETA soon? (i.e., decision) -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Micro-optimizing for the wrong thing - coding efficiencies -vs- processor speeds
It is all about costs. You don't say. One would think it is all about fashion. The number of folks wearing boss of the plains, leather chaps and lariats is dwindling exponentially. -Artem. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: gnome dumps core - sxce_b62 x86 upgrade from b59
now - the weird thing is that i left the laptop overnight, then updated a very similar model vaio in the same way. that worked fine, so i tried the 1st laptop again. this time it worked! i have no idea what changed between then now :/ grrr This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
Can anyone give a make and model of a Blue Ray drive? Admittedly, I don't know much about any of that new stuff. Joerg, I'll buy you one and send it your way so that you can work on it, if I can find one to buy. - If you are looking for Sony Blu-Ray drives: You can review: http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/ShowProduct.action?product=BWU-100Asite=biz_en_EUpageType=Overviewcategory=ITPBluRay Note: Get the Sony BWU-100A (use Firmware Update 1.0c or higher for evaluation). Dealer Location: http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/howtobuy/AccessDealerLocator.action?site=biz_en_EUsectiontype=How+To+BuycategoryGenericName=ITPBluRay You can get it now for $539.95 at this location: http://www.nothingbutsoftware.com/catalog_type.asp?ProductCode=36486ai=531 Guess a few people are being generous this time of year!! Ken Mays EarthLink, Inc. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
Alan DuBoff wrote: What if you just make it a condition that Ted needs to get the affiliation? Tom Haynes said this has happened, so I'm satisfied. If it's just a formality that Ted didn't get an affiliation from an existing community, I would affiliate with the Device Driver community, which filesystems stradle on. Except that the Device Driver community is defunct, having no contributors nor core contributors able to participate in community decision making, and as noted, it's really a better fit for Storage or the proposed File Systems community than Device Drivers anyway. Is that draft you mention going to have an ETA soon? (i.e., decision) It's on the agenda for tomorrow's OGB meeting, and as everyone on ogb-discuss seems to have agreed with it, I imagine it will be adopted then. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
All, I can affiliate with the storage community until an FS community exists if that works for everyone. Oversight on my part not to have included this as part of the proposal. Thanks for the feedback, Ted Alan Coopersmith wrote: Alan DuBoff wrote: What if you just make it a condition that Ted needs to get the affiliation? Tom Haynes said this has happened, so I'm satisfied. If it's just a formality that Ted didn't get an affiliation from an existing community, I would affiliate with the Device Driver community, which filesystems stradle on. Except that the Device Driver community is defunct, having no contributors nor core contributors able to participate in community decision making, and as noted, it's really a better fit for Storage or the proposed File Systems community than Device Drivers anyway. Is that draft you mention going to have an ETA soon? (i.e., decision) It's on the agenda for tomorrow's OGB meeting, and as everyone on ogb-discuss seems to have agreed with it, I imagine it will be adopted then. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: gnome dumps core - sxce_b62 x86 upgrade from b59
have you tried to see what was in the core, i.e. use strings ./core |more or better yet use pmap or pstach ./core check the man page and check out the related commands. 1. bash-3.00# strings core|more CORE exename /pathtoexename CORE i86pc CORE CORE CORE :1.29 org.freedesktop. CORE exename /pathtoexename CORE :1.29 org.freedesktop. CORE i86pc CORE CORE SunOS yourhostname 5.11 snv_62 i86pc see if the process is still running: bash-3.00# ps -ef|grep exename root 1066 1 0 20:23:47 ? 0:00 exename bash-3.00# gdb exename ./core GNU gdb 6.3.50_2004-11-23-cvs Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type show copying to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type show warranty for details. This GDB was configured as i386-pc-solaris2.11...(no debugging symbols found) warning: core file may not match specified executable file. Core was generated by `/usr/lib/gnome-vfs-daemon'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.1...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.1 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libgnomevfs-2.so.0 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0... (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2... (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2 Reading symbols from /lib/libpthread.so.1... warning: Lowest section in /lib/libpthread.so.1 is .dynamic at 0074 (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libpthread.so.1 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libz.so.1... (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libz.so.1 Reading symbols from /lib/libm.so.2...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libm.so.2 Reading symbols from /lib/libsocket.so.1... (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libsocket.so.1 Reading symbols from /lib/libnsl.so.1...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libnsl.so.1 Reading symbols from /lib/libresolv.so.2... (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libresolv.so.2 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.so.0...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.so.0 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libdbus-glib-1.so.2... (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libdbus-glib-1.so.2 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libdbus-1.so.3 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libgconf-2.so.4... (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libgconf-2.so.4 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libORBit-2.so.0...(no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libORBit-2.so.0 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libhal.so.1.0.0... (no debugging symbols found)...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libhal.so.1.0.0 #0 0xfeed93e0 in countbytes () from /lib/libc.so.1 3.. # with in gdb session, print p (pointer) might work! (gdb) print p No symbol table is loaded. Use the file command. 4. # also within gdb session type backtrace (gdb) backtrace #0 0xfeed93e0 in countbytes () from /lib/libc.so.1 #1 0xfef19775 in _ndoprnt () from /lib/libc.so.1 #2 0xfef1bba0 in vsnprintf () from /lib/libc.so.1 #3 0xfed5d1ff in g_printf_string_upper_bound () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 #4 0xfed7b0d3 in g_vasprintf () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 #5 0xfed6b0ba in g_strdup_vprintf () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 #6 0xfed5c48f in g_logv () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 #7 0xfed5c571 in g_log () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 #8 0x0806209a in _gnome_vfs_hal_mounts_init () #9 0x0805bb72 in gnome_vfs_volume_monitor_daemon_init () #10 0xfee0716f in g_type_create_instance () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #11 0xfedf1ff3 in g_object_constructor () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #12 0xfedf1658 in g_object_newv () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #13 0xfedf1f95 in g_object_new_valist () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #14 0xfedf12f5 in g_object_new () from /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 #15 0x0805e22e in _gnome_vfs_get_volume_monitor_internal () #16 0x0805e2aa in gnome_vfs_get_volume_monitor () #17 0x08058c23 in main () (gdb) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
But if all you wanted to do is just get stuff out of your computer, then why are you here? Why Solaris? Somebody with that kind of mentality can be perfectly happy on Windows. If you don't care about how it all works, you don't need the most advanced operating system on the planet. Windows will do. How could you promote the idea that Windows will do? Windows only suffices because of the fact that there is so much desktop software written only for it. Of course, it would not be a problem if Windows is not the resource abusing pest that it is. Why not Solaris as a replacement for Windows? Drivers for Solaris go a long way unlike Linux and even Windows. Solaris has a better potential than Linux for this reason to replace that malware infested platform called Windows. Why relegate Solaris to a niche? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
I'm sorry, at the moment Sun just doesn't have the software tools I need. (I work for a big corp. ) I have made a vow that when VMWare workstation comes out for Solaris, I will start running a Solaris desktop. (I have held of switching to a Linux desktop in the hopes that Sun will come through with a vmware port) With Mac and Windows I can run Solaris in a VM. (which I do). I also use Cygwin. Cheers, Brian -Original Message- From: Chung Hang Christopher Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 10:52 pm Subject: Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris To: UNIX admin [EMAIL PROTECTED], opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org But if all you wanted to do is just get stuff out of your computer, then why are you here? Why Solaris? Somebody with that kind of mentality can be perfectly happy on Windows. If you don't care about how it all works, you don't need the most advanced operating system on the planet. Windows will do. How could you promote the idea that Windows will do? Windows only suffices because of the fact that there is so much desktop software written only for it. Of course, it would not be a problem if Windows is not the resource abusing pest that it is. Why not Solaris as a replacement for Windows? Drivers for Solaris go a long way unlike Linux and even Windows. Solaris has a better potential than Linux for this reason to replace that malware infested platform called Windows. Why relegate Solaris to a niche? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Project Proposal: SAM-QFS
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Except that the Device Driver community is defunct, having no contributors nor core contributors able to participate in community decision making, and as noted, it's really a better fit for Storage or the proposed File Systems community than Device Drivers anyway. How so, can you elaborate and how another community would participate in that decision making if they don't have a OGB member? Certainly by lobbying the OGB, the Device Driver community is like any other community that exists today. Any defunct communities should be cleaned up, if Device Driver community is defunct, maybe it needs to be cleaned up with other defunct communities. It's on the agenda for tomorrow's OGB meeting, and as everyone on ogb-discuss seems to have agreed with it, I imagine it will be adopted then. Do you folks meet once a week? -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Re: Re: CD burning in Solaris
On 4/24/07, Stephen Lau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: UNIX admin wrote: I'm glad we've managed to dumb things way down in the last 20 years: ... No longer do we need to write in assembly language (or machine code or ...) sure we do. I don't think we will ever get away from the hardware so far that assembly becomes unneeded. Ever. So long as there is software to write and compilers that attempt to convert it to machine executable form then we will need assemblers. After all, someone somewhere always wants to squeeze the last nanosec out of those loops and nothing beats assembly. And that's a good thing? That we now have compilers generating bloated code that make it unthinkable to run a modern GUI? I hardly think that Studio 11 creates bloated code. In fact, I think that the Sun Studio tools are the finest on the planet for AMD Opterons and UltraSparc. Other processors *may* require other vendors. Or maybe even just GCC. But bloated code starts with the programmers and the software management process in place. Hey, I was coding realtime, *smooth* multimedia stuff on a 7MHz processor inside of 16KB worth of assembler code! How much faster would it have been if I had even a 40MHz CPU! Just look at people doing realtime Goraud shading inside a few KB worth of assembler code on a 0.99MHz Commodore 64! For crying out loud, we were competing whose depack routine had the least number of *bytes* (48 *byte* depack routine was the record). And we've progressed... how exactly? ... and my parents walked to school uphill both ways in the snow barefoot. http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/cold_feet.jpg :-) I always want to use that in context. We've progressed to the point that nobody cares and we can think about higher level constructs. I don't know if that is progress. I often need to scope out the whole process in flow charts and then pseudo code the routines and common interfaces. Often times right down to atomic database operations in order to ensure that a given high level transaction can be depended on when many many such transactions are fed into a service queue. No, I think that programmers still need to see the lower level bits in order to create good solutions. If you want to stick with the arcane knowledge that you have accumulated, then fine. Nobody is taking that away from you. But don't try and stop progress and development merely because you don't want to know about it, or use it. I don't know what arcane is. Earlier today I ran headlong into someone reading a MAC address to me and they told me that ff means there is nothing in that memory location. They had no clue at all what hexadecimal was and they had been a systems admin for years. I hope that hexadecimal does not fall into the realm of arcane. If you mean things like how to write 3D graphics software in pascal on the Apollo 1 Domain/Aegis workstations .. then yeah .. we can flush that down the drain. Dennis --- :: Turbo Pascal rules ! :: ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Contributor Agreement
On 20/04/07, Ceri Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 06:13:16PM -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: On 19/04/07, Ceri Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: True, and I don't have a problem with that. However, I will also grant an irrevocable license to everyone who receives my contribution to do whatever they like with it, and that presumably includes any patch that I may post to an OpenSolaris list. This license doesn't seem to be the CDDL; it's just a license to make, have made, use, sell, offer to sell, import and otherwise transfer... and to sublicense the foregoing rights and it doesn't even provide for a requirement to retain credit; i.e., I'm essentially placing the contribution in the public domain. Secondly, I grant Sun a right to sue for infringement, not that there seem to be many ways to infringe the above, and if I'm doing that by mailing the list then I'd like to know up front [1][2]. Finally, if I sign up as part of a company, then I potentially need to get clearance just to send email to the lists as a result of the above. Now presumably some people here have signed the thing, so I really am canvassing for what they thought about it - did they interpret it differently, did they not care, were they happy with these clauses? I promise that I am not trolling here. I'm one of those that signed the agreement. In my understanding, (I am not a lawyer, etc.), it essentially gives Sun joint copyright for my contribution. As a result, they have the right to license, distribute, etc. that contribution however they see fit. Essentially, every right that I have as a copyright holder, they do too now. Agreed. However, the agreeement goes further with the grant of rights. Your contribution is only available under the terms that Sun gives it someone else under, not whatever. The way I read it, the license is granted to everyone who receives the contribution, which necessarily means everyone subscribed to the mailing list or who finds the post via Google and so forth. It's not just Sun. Of course, that assumes that a post to the mailing list constitutes submission to the Project and that's where I'm somewhat nervous. I don't read it that way, nor do I think that is right. The contributor agreement gives you and *Sun* joint copyright. Not any random person on the mailing list. -- Less is only more where more is no good. --Frank Lloyd Wright Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
