Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-15 Thread Thierry Carrez
Chris Friesen wrote: On 09/12/2014 04:59 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: [...] Can't you replace the word 'libvirt code' with 'nova code' and this would still be true? Do you think landing virt driver code is harder then landing non virt driver code? If so do you have any numbers to back this up? If

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-15 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:00:15AM +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote: Chris Friesen wrote: On 09/12/2014 04:59 PM, Joe Gordon wrote: [...] Can't you replace the word 'libvirt code' with 'nova code' and this would still be true? Do you think landing virt driver code is harder then landing non

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-12 Thread Joe Gordon
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 2:18 AM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 09:23:34AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote: a) Sorting out the common code is already accounted for in Dan B's original

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 09:23:34AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote: a) Sorting out the common code is already accounted for in Dan B's original proposal -- it's a prerequisite for the split. Its a big prerequisite though. I

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 07:35:05PM -0700, Armando M. wrote: Hi, I devoured this thread, so much it was interesting and full of insights. It's not news that we've been pondering about this in the Neutron project for the past and existing cycle or so. Likely, this effort is going to take

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Sean Dague
On 09/10/2014 06:11 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: On 09/10/2014 05:55 PM, Chris Friesen wrote: On 09/10/2014 02:44 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 05:14:43PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: I have the impression this idea has been circling around for a while but for some

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Sean Dague
On 09/11/2014 05:18 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 09:23:34AM +1000, Michael Still wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote: a) Sorting out the common code is already accounted for in Dan B's original proposal -- it's a prerequisite for

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Thierry Carrez
Sean Dague wrote: [...] Why don't we start with let's clean up the virt interface and make it more sane, as I don't think there is any disagreement there. If it's going to take a cycle, it's going to take a cycle anyway (it will probably take 2 cycles, realistically, we always underestimate

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Gary Kotton
On 9/11/14, 2:55 PM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote: Sean Dague wrote: [...] Why don't we start with let's clean up the virt interface and make it more sane, as I don't think there is any disagreement there. If it's going to take a cycle, it's going to take a cycle anyway (it

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Andrew Laski
On 09/10/2014 07:23 PM, Michael Still wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote: a) Sorting out the common code is already accounted for in Dan B's original proposal -- it's a prerequisite for the split. Its a big prerequisite though. I think we're talking

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Sean Dague
On 09/11/2014 09:09 AM, Gary Kotton wrote: On 9/11/14, 2:55 PM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote: Sean Dague wrote: [...] Why don't we start with let's clean up the virt interface and make it more sane, as I don't think there is any disagreement there. If it's going to take a

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Radoslav Gerganov
On 09/11/2014 04:30 PM, Sean Dague wrote: On 09/11/2014 09:09 AM, Gary Kotton wrote: On 9/11/14, 2:55 PM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote: Sean Dague wrote: [...] Why don't we start with let's clean up the virt interface and make it more sane, as I don't think there is any

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Duncan Thomas
On 11 September 2014 12:36, Sean Dague s...@dague.net wrote: I continue to not understand how N non overlapping teams makes this any better. You have to pay the integration cost somewhere. Right now we're trying to pay it 1 patch at a time. This model means the integration units get much

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Davanum Srinivas
Rados, personally, i'd want a human to do the +W. Also the critieria would include a 3) which is the CI for the driver if applicable. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Radoslav Gerganov rgerga...@vmware.com wrote: On 09/11/2014 04:30 PM, Sean Dague wrote: On 09/11/2014 09:09 AM, Gary Kotton

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread James Bottomley
On Thu, 2014-09-11 at 07:36 -0400, Sean Dague wrote: b) The conflict Dan is speaking of is around the current situation where we have a limited core review team bandwidth and we have to pick and choose which virt driver-specific features we will review. This leads to bad feelings and

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Gary Kotton
On 9/11/14, 4:30 PM, Sean Dague s...@dague.net wrote: On 09/11/2014 09:09 AM, Gary Kotton wrote: On 9/11/14, 2:55 PM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote: Sean Dague wrote: [...] Why don't we start with let's clean up the virt interface and make it more sane, as I don't think

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Duncan Thomas
On 11 September 2014 15:35, James Bottomley james.bottom...@hansenpartnership.com wrote: OK, so look at a concrete example: in 2002, the Linux kernel went with bitkeeper precisely because we'd reached the scaling limit of a single integration point, so we took the kernel from a single

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread James Bottomley
On Thu, 2014-09-11 at 16:20 +0100, Duncan Thomas wrote: On 11 September 2014 15:35, James Bottomley james.bottom...@hansenpartnership.com wrote: OK, so look at a concrete example: in 2002, the Linux kernel went with bitkeeper precisely because we'd reached the scaling limit of a single

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Sean Dague
On 09/11/2014 11:14 AM, Gary Kotton wrote: On 9/11/14, 4:30 PM, Sean Dague s...@dague.net wrote: On 09/11/2014 09:09 AM, Gary Kotton wrote: On 9/11/14, 2:55 PM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org wrote: Sean Dague wrote: [...] Why don't we start with let's clean up the virt

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-11 Thread Armando M.
On 10 September 2014 22:23, Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote: On 09/10/2014 10:35 PM, Armando M. wrote: Hi, I devoured this thread, so much it was interesting and full of insights. It's not news that we've been pondering about this in the Neutron project for the past and existing

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 05:14:43PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: To me, this means you don't really want a sin bin where you dump drivers and tell them not to come out until they're fit to be reviewed by the core; You want a trusted driver community which does its own reviews and means

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Sylvain Bauza
Le 10/09/2014 10:44, Daniel P. Berrange a écrit : On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 05:14:43PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: To me, this means you don't really want a sin bin where you dump drivers and tell them not to come out until they're fit to be reviewed by the core; You want a trusted driver

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Kyle Mestery
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:44 AM, Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 05:14:43PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: To me, this means you don't really want a sin bin where you dump drivers and tell them not to come out until they're fit to be reviewed by the

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Stefano Maffulli
On 09/10/2014 02:27 AM, Sylvain Bauza wrote: Well, both proposals can be done : we can create subteams and the Subteam-Approval Gerrit label right know before Kilo, and we could split the virt repos by later once the interfaces and prereqs are done. That's what I mean in fact: create sub team

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Kyle Mestery
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.org wrote: On 09/10/2014 02:27 AM, Sylvain Bauza wrote: Well, both proposals can be done : we can create subteams and the Subteam-Approval Gerrit label right know before Kilo, and we could split the virt repos by later once

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Rochelle.RochelleGrober
-Original Message- From: Daniel P. Berrange [mailto:berra...@redhat.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:45 AM On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 05:14:43PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: To me, this means you don't really want a sin bin where you dump drivers and tell them not to come

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Chris Friesen
On 09/10/2014 02:44 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 05:14:43PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: I have the impression this idea has been circling around for a while but for some reason or another (like lack of capabilities in gerrit and other reasons) we never tried to

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Jay Pipes
On 09/10/2014 05:55 PM, Chris Friesen wrote: On 09/10/2014 02:44 AM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 05:14:43PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: I have the impression this idea has been circling around for a while but for some reason or another (like lack of capabilities in

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Chris Friesen
On 09/10/2014 04:11 PM, Jay Pipes wrote: On 09/10/2014 05:55 PM, Chris Friesen wrote: If each hypervisor team mostly only modifies their own code, why would there be conflict? As I see it, the only causes for conflict would be in the shared code, and you'd still need to sort out the issues

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Michael Still
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:11 AM, Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote: a) Sorting out the common code is already accounted for in Dan B's original proposal -- it's a prerequisite for the split. Its a big prerequisite though. I think we're talking about a release worth of work to get that right.

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Armando M.
Hi, I devoured this thread, so much it was interesting and full of insights. It's not news that we've been pondering about this in the Neutron project for the past and existing cycle or so. Likely, this effort is going to take more than two cycles, and would require a very focused team of people

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-10 Thread Russell Bryant
On 09/10/2014 10:35 PM, Armando M. wrote: Hi, I devoured this thread, so much it was interesting and full of insights. It's not news that we've been pondering about this in the Neutron project for the past and existing cycle or so. Likely, this effort is going to take more than two

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-09 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 05:20:54PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: On 09/05/2014 07:07 PM, James Bottomley wrote: Actually, I don't think this analysis is accurate. Some people are simply interested in small aspects of a project. It's the scratch your own itch part of open source. The

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-09 Thread Matthew Booth
On 09/09/14 01:20, Stefano Maffulli wrote: From conversations with PTLs and core reviewers I get the impression that lots of drivers contributions come with bad code. These require a lot of time and reviewers energy to be cleaned up, causing burn out and bad feelings on all sides. What if we

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-09 Thread James Bottomley
On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 17:20 -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: On 09/05/2014 07:07 PM, James Bottomley wrote: Actually, I don't think this analysis is accurate. Some people are simply interested in small aspects of a project. It's the scratch your own itch part of open source. The thing

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-09 Thread Stefano Maffulli
On 09/09/2014 06:55 AM, James Bottomley wrote: CLAs are a well known and documented barrier to casual contributions I'm not convinced about this statement, at all. And since I think it's secondary to what we're discussing, I'll leave it as is and go on. I've done both ... I do prefer the patch

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-08 Thread Stefano Maffulli
On 09/05/2014 07:07 PM, James Bottomley wrote: Actually, I don't think this analysis is accurate. Some people are simply interested in small aspects of a project. It's the scratch your own itch part of open source. The thing which makes itch scratchers not lone wolfs is the desire to go the

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-08 Thread Sean Roberts
A somewhat self-serving way to start to solve this is to make training and mentoring as the first steps to getting involved with contributions. We would continue to gradually give more responsibilities as the experience and skills increase. We do this last part already, but are missing the

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-05 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 03:54:28PM -0700, Stefano Maffulli wrote: Thanks Daniel for taking the time to write such deep message. Obviously you have thought about this issue for a long time and your opinion comes from deep personal understanding. I'm adding tags for neutron and cinder, as I know

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][neutron][cinder] Averting the Nova crisis by splitting out virt drivers

2014-09-04 Thread Stefano Maffulli
Thanks Daniel for taking the time to write such deep message. Obviously you have thought about this issue for a long time and your opinion comes from deep personal understanding. I'm adding tags for neutron and cinder, as I know they're having similar conversations. I don't have a strong opinion