F Williams
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams
Author's Web Site and Photo Gallery
Updated: March 30, 2002
- Original Message -
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging
On 15 Dec 2002 at 11:22, Dr E D F Williams wrote:
All you have to do is take a look at the published MTFs for 35 mm lenses and
compare them with those for Medium Format to see what you say is not true.
I get the feeling that you are talking of experience from long ago, why not do
yourself a
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging?
On 15 Dec 2002 at 11:22, Dr E D F Williams wrote:
All you have to do is take a look at the published MTFs for 35 mm lenses
and
compare them with those for Medium Format to see what you say is not
true.
I get the feeling that you are talking
Rob wrote:
I get the feeling that you are talking of experience from long ago, why not do
yourself a favour and compare data for some newly designed lenses?
I'm sure there are exeptions but most MF lenses doesn't perform that well. The reasons
are economics and the fact there is no point
On 15 Dec 2002 at 15:18, Dr E D F Williams wrote:
The differences in the quality of 35 mm and lenses for larger formats is
still quite noticeable. In many cases you are quite right. But this is a
red-herring anyway. This matters less than the size of the image on the
film, and has to do with
- Original Message -
From: Dr E D F Williams
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging?
Why just these two? Why not all that you can find and then
make an qualified
assessment of the data you've gathered? But as I said before.
This is a
red-herring and secondary to my main theses
Naw, this just doesn't work. You just can't compare numbers from one tester
to numbers from another. There's too much potential for variation in the
testing methodologies, different standards, different skills on the part of
the tester.
You also can't compare MFT charts from different sources,
standard emerging?
- Original Message -
From: Dr E D F Williams
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging?
All you have to do is take a look at the published MTFs for 35
mm lenses and
compare them with those for Medium Format to see what you say
is not true.
Lenses for 35 mm
Bob wrote:
isn't the implication of this that comparing lenses is entirely
unscientific? After all, the scientific method requires measurements
to be independently verifiable and repeatable. I find it difficult to
believe that optics and lens manufacture is outside the realm of
science.
Hi,
in Britain the beer 'Stella Artois' is sold with the tagline
'Reassuringly expensive', and Kronenbourg (I think) used to claim that
it was the most expensive beer in the world. An odd approach, but one
that seems to work for other products too. I was once involved in the
purchase of some
John wrote:
It is my firm hope that Pentax will make a good quality DSLR, with a full
range of lens covering the 35mm equivalents of 15 - 600mm, but also with the
possibility of using an adaptor to allow the use of existing K-mount lens,
so that the affordability of a useful system does not
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
in Britain the beer 'Stella Artois' is sold with the tagline
'Reassuringly expensive', and Kronenbourg (I think) used to claim that
it was the most expensive beer in the world. An odd approach, but one
that seems to work for other products too. I was once involved
Scott brings up a point that puzzles me mightly, having invested in
a scanner and a low-end inkjet: Print longevity. Just visited
Wilhelm and they have an article about the new HP 5550 ($149, 6 ink,
8x10 no bleed): Wilhelm claims this thing, on HP premium paper and
behind glass, is good for
Did Pentax have an APS camera at any point. I can't think of any. I
know they had this 110 SLR. Are there pics of this on the web
anywhere?
Steven Desjardins
Department of Chemistry
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, VA 24450
(540) 458-8873
FAX: (540) 458-8878
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Herb Chong
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging?
Wilhelm is the best we've got right now. UV is by far the most
important
factor in fading of dyes.
Wilhelm is about all we have right now.
I'm just not convinced of the validity of his testing
procedures
I think it will, eventually, because the next round of DSLRs from Canon,
Nikon, Pentax, et al will force them to cut the price. This is
definitely a game of one-up-manship. I was surprised to learn that on
one of the previous Kodak digitals (the 760, I think) you could insert a
PCMCIA WiFi card
-
From: J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 2:28 AM
Subject: RE: A new DSLR standard emerging?
-Original Message-
From: Rob Studdert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 3:26 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED
BTW, the 14n has been delayed
tv
-Original Message-
From: Len Paris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
I think it will, eventually, because the next round of
DSLRs from Canon,
Nikon, Pentax, et al will force them to cut the price. This is
definitely a game of one-up-manship. I was
/graywolfphoto
- Original Message -
From: Rob Studdert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 3:26 AM
Subject: RE: A new DSLR standard emerging?
On 14 Dec 2002 at 1:29, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
yup, you are missing something.
lenses designed to cover full
: A new DSLR standard emerging? (WAS: Re: Nikon DX lenses:Isthis
what Pentax is up to?)
BTW, the 14n has been delayed
tv
PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 11:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging? (WAS: Re: Nikon DX
lenses:Isthis what Pentax is up to?)
Delayed? They were originally saying Feb 2003, then they
said maybe by
Christmas. What are they saying now?
Ciao
Hi Steve,
on 14 Dec 02 you wrote in pentax.list:
Did Pentax have an APS camera at any point.
Yes and they still have: The Efina PS cameras are APS. E.g.:
http://www.pentaxusa.com/products/cameras/
camera_overview.cfm?productID=10165
Regards, Heiko
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging? (WAS: Re:
-
If Pentax decides to build such smaller-coverage
lenses, even if they are K-mount, this will mean the
end of the unrivaled K-mount compatibility. And
let's face it, this is the only real advantage of
Pentax's
Huh? The Pentax MF lenses are significantly weaker performers than almost any
35mm prime lens. Eg the FA645 75/2.8, which is an equal performer as the 80mm
Carl Zeiss for the Hasselblad, is worse than any K-mount prime I've ever used.
Of course theres no law saying that larger format lenses
I've always been curious about this effect, which I first heard it called the
diffraction effect. I curious about the relative size of this. Suppose we had
film with grain too small to matter for any typical enlargement. Would the resolution
gained by the smaller circle of coverage for 35
My guess would be no. The tonality would be smoother with the larger
negative, something I've noticed between the 645 and 35mm.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: Steve Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: A new DSLR
Steve wrote:
I've always been curious about this effect, which I first heard it called the
diffraction effect.
No. This is not the diffraction effect. It just an effect of the fact that it's harder
to make the same lens for a larger coverage. Not to mention the fact that it is more
- Original Message -
From: Steve Desjardins
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging?
Would the resolution gained by the smaller circle of coverage
for 35 mm compensate for the larger enlargement needed for an
equivalent print from MF?
No. 35mm lenses are not that much better than
On 14 Dec 2002 at 11:50, T Rittenhouse wrote:
Most top quality lens have a resolution of around 72 lpm on film at normal
contrast levels (the higher resolutions you hear spouted about are for high
contrast or arial images, how many of us photograph line drawings) reguardless
of format.
Well, actually we can use those 35mm lenses of yours for macro work on our
large format cameras. Let's see we will use a SMC Pentax 50 mm macro on both
the 35mm camera, and the 8x10 camera and make a full frame of a small
object. Will the 35mm negative appear sharper than the 8x10. Yes it will,
Pål wrote:
PJ I'm not so shocked by this real possibility at all. After all, the
PJ 35mm format doesn't make much sense for digital. Older lenses can
PJ still be used whereas newere digital only lenses could be made
PJ better, cheaper and smaller.
I don't feel that moving to a lower
- Original Message -
From: Alin Flaider [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging? (WAS: Re: Nikon DX
lenses: Is this what Pentax is up to?)
I don't feel that moving to a lower sensor size has
anything to do
with maintaining a SLR system, which is the whole
Maybe I don't understand this . . .
As I understood it, the old K mount lenses would work fine with a new
APS sensor with a 1.5 or so factor. The new new digital lenses would
not work with the 35 mm film cameras (old or new) becuase of lack of
coverage. This seems OK to me. Pentax will
Bojidar wrote:
First of all, releasing lenses with smaller coverage circles seems to
indicate that the APS-sized digitals are here to stay. Like Alin, I too
had hoped that they are only for-the-time-being solutions.
It might be that this move is just a way to get proper wide angles for the
, a potential to have a decent tiny 10-100 f/1.4 zoom for DSLR is waaay too
cool lo be overlooked.
Best,
Mishka
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging? (WAS: Re:
-
If Pentax decides to build such smaller-coverage
lenses, even if they are K-mount, this will mean
I guess the part I don't understand is why Nikon would release a lens
covering the smaller sensor when they've got a full-frame coming out?
Do they think full-frame prices will never come down?
On a related note, I understand the argument that a smaller sensor may
be sufficient to equal the
With
respect to focal length, APS sized sensors only have a
negative effect on wide angle. So yes, you might have
to burn a 200-500 dollar hole to get that new wide
angle zoom or prime. But compare that to what happens
to your telephoto lenses such as the 200/2.8 or
300/4.5. The savings there
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging? (WAS: Re: Nikon DX lenses:Is
this what Pentax is up to?)
Maybe I don't understand this . . .
As I understood it, the old K mount lenses would work fine with a new
APS sensor with a 1.5 or so factor.
They would work, but I'm not so sure about fine
-Original Message-
From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
With
respect to focal length, APS sized sensors only have a
negative effect on wide angle. So yes, you might have
to burn a 200-500 dollar hole to get that new wide
angle zoom or prime. But compare that to what happens
to
It's not quite that simple.
What will we do for a 50/1.4? 24/2? Even if Pentax decided to release
a 35/1.4, how many folks would be happy to shell out $1000 for what is
basically a 50/1.4?!
You guys dont understand. A 35mm F1.4 lens designed for
a smaller sensor will be as cheap to produce
I thought about the Kodak camera. The problem here is finding the sweet
spot of price and resolution. Once they start releasing APS senor
lenses, they'll have a certain commitment to that format and the smaller
sensor will always be a cheaper camera. After all, $1000 is cheap for a
DSLR but
tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll wait and see what Pentax does, but I have to admit I'm concerned.
I was content with the pace at which Pentax released new cameras in
the past because I knew the quality of my prints depended on the
lenses, not the camera. This is no longer true with digital -
lenses on DSLR. Not the new ones on LX.
Faec it, it's like complaining that 35mm lenses don't cover the whole 6x7
circle. Who gives?
Besides, a potential to have a decent tiny 10-100 f/1.4 zoom for DSLR is
waaay too cool lo be overlooked.
Best,
Mishka
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging
hat Pentax is up to?)?=
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: onet.poczta
Hi,
You are right. If we cannot use out nice manaual lenses and even new FA ones on future
dslr it would be the end of Pentax in slr market.
I do hope it will be the truth.
Alek
uytkownik Bojidar Dimitrov [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisa:
-Original Message-
From: J. C. O'Connell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
It's not quite that simple.
What will we do for a 50/1.4? 24/2? Even if Pentax
decided to release
a 35/1.4, how many folks would be happy to shell out
$1000 for what is
basically a 50/1.4?!
You guys dont
J. C. O'Connell schrieb:
You guys dont understand. A 35mm F1.4 lens designed for a smaller sensor will be as cheap to produce as a 50mm F1.4 for 35mm or even cheaper.
That I do not believe as the distance of the lens to the focal plane
will not be changed so that a 35mm f1.4 must be a
Alin wrote:
results? - current APS sized 6 MPixel cameras are not convincing at
all in a digital versus film argument, at least not to me. Just
because today's scanners are poor in exploiting film capabilities
(see Nyquest sampling frequency theorem) doesn't mean digital
Tom wrote:
I'll wait and see what Pentax does, but I have to admit I'm concerned.
I was content with the pace at which Pentax released new cameras in
the past because I knew the quality of my prints depended on the
lenses, not the camera. This is no longer true with digital - the body
is no
J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe I don't understand this . . .
As I understood it, the old K mount lenses would work fine with a new
APS sensor with a 1.5 or so factor.
They would work, but I'm not so sure about fine. I think
that lenses designed strictly for a smaller image
Hi gang,
I bet Pentax has all this time been waiting for the sensor technology to
upgrade on a level that a good quality 5 mpix 17x13mm chip can be
made. The Digital Auto 110 would be something ;)
-mte
From: Arnold Stark
J. C. O'Connell schrieb:
You guys dont understand. A 35mm F1.4 lens designed for a smaller sensor
will be as cheap to produce as a 50mm F1.4 for 35mm or even cheaper.
That I do not believe as the distance of the lens to the focal plane
will not be changed so that a 35mm f1.4
T Rittenhouse wrote:
The computer electronics law of halves should apply. That is 1/2 the price,
or twice the capability per year. That puts a 14mp 24x36 sensor camera down
into the $1000 range in two years. But there is always the WTMWB factor to
consider.
But that just isn't happening. See
What is not being addressed here is that many of the shooters who are
currently buying DSLRs aren't looking for 30meg files. One of the features
that they like about the Kodak 14n is that it can be configured to only
produce 8meg (not compressed) files. Giant files, unless you really need
them,
On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 12:21, Bruce Rubenstein wrote:
What is not being addressed here is that many of the shooters who are
currently buying DSLRs aren't looking for 30meg files. One of the features
that they like about the Kodak 14n is that it can be configured to only
produce 8meg (not
- Original Message -
From: T Rittenhouse
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging? (WAS: Re: Nikon DX
lenses:Isthis what Pentax is up to?)
The computer electronics law of halves should apply. That is
1/2 the price,
or twice the capability per year. That puts a 14mp 24x36
sensor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The computer electronics law of halves should apply. That is 1/2 the price,
or twice the capability per year. That puts a 14mp 24x36 sensor camera down
into the $1000 range in two years.
Graywolf,
It's called Moore's Law, but it doesn't work so good for some
Welcome back dude.
--
Thomas Van Veen Photography
www.bigdayphoto.com
301-758-3085
-Original Message-
From: Mark D. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 6:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: A new DSLR standard emerging?
--- tom [EMAIL PROTECTED
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: A new DSLR standard emerging?
--- tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is that Mark Dalal?
One and the same : )
Mark
__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http
As I said let's wait and see.
Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging? (WAS: Re: Nikon DX lenses:Isthis
what Pentax is up
the
information transfers necessary.
Or am I missing something here?
John Coyle
Brisbane, Australia
- Original Message -
From: Bojidar Dimitrov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging?
Hi Tom,
There's
DSLR standard emerging?
I can't see a real problem in having a Pentax DSLR with a smaller
mount and
a range of specific lenses for it, _if_ the flange to film plane
distance is
less than that of the standard k-mount. This would allow a
suitable adaptor
to be provided which bayonets
PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: A new DSLR standard emerging?
yup, you are missing something.
lenses designed to cover full frame 35mm
wont be as sharp as ones designed just
for the smaller sensor.
JCO
On 14 Dec 2002 at 17:12, jcoyle wrote:
But will they be sharp enough for most people?
Any good 35mm lens should be sharp enough to cause sampling errors on even the highest
density unfiltered digital image sensors.
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT) +10 Hours
On 14 Dec 2002 at 1:29, J. C. O'Connell wrote:
yup, you are missing something.
lenses designed to cover full frame 35mm
wont be as sharp as ones designed just
for the smaller sensor.
I think you'll find that your logic only holds true WRT Pentax glass, my Mamiya
7 lenses will whip most 35mm
-Original Message-
From: Rob Studdert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 3:26 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A new DSLR standard emerging?
On 14 Dec 2002 at 17:12, jcoyle wrote:
But will they be sharp enough for most people?
Any good 35mm
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