On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Pål Jensen wrote:
the labels, put it with a D100 and 10D, most people can identify the
Pentax from 20 feet away.
I can't. If somebody had blacked out the name I would never have guessed
the *ist D was a Pentax.
You need new glasses, Pal. :-)
Honestly, its
Lawrence wrote:
I mean, who cares about if *ist D can take great pictures, who cares if it
has competitive features, who cares if it feels good in your hands, who
cares if it is affordable since it looks too much like other cameras,
it has to be DOOMED, right?!?
Nobody cares. The Z-1p
Peter wrote:
Not true. READ dpreview's discussions on the new
*ist-D. people are talking.
But will any of them buy it? On the photo newsgroup the interest lasted only few
hours...
Pål
Peter wrote:
So Pål are you going to jump ship???
I'm not going to jump ship because I'm not in the market for a DSLR. However, I
believe many will jump ship instead of buying the *ist D. When people realize that
they have to buy new lenses anyway to get real advantage of this camera,
Pål Jensen wrote:
Peter wrote:
Not true. READ dpreview's discussions on the new
*ist-D. people are talking.
But will any of them buy it? On the photo newsgroup the interest lasted only few
hours...
Right! It slowed down really quickly when someone said, Okay, who's
going to
Alexander wrote:
- IMO the *ist D seems to be made for the mass market,
like the film *ist; I expect the DSLR market to
explode once the prices come down; I consider the *ist
D as a step into that direction.
- Pentax undercut other volume makers on price in the
past: E.g. M-series cameras,
- Original Message -
From: Lawrence Kwan
Subject: Re: Position: *ist-D D10
I mean, who cares about if *ist D can take great pictures, who cares if it
has competitive features, who cares if it feels good in your hands, who
cares if it is affordable since it looks too much like
- Original Message -
From: Keith Whaley
Subject: Re: Position: *ist-D D10
Right! It slowed down really quickly when someone said, Okay, who's
going to actually BUY one!
Loud silence...
Well, not me. I have to wait until the right phase of the moon, etc.
All, mind you, before any
And before anyone has actually seen one, held one, used one and seen the
pictures it takes.
Pretty moronic, isn't it.
Yep. That's us g
Lukasz
--r-e-k-l-a-m-a-
Tanie bilety lotnicze!
http://samoloty.onet.pl
Hi Pål,
on 28 Feb 03 you wrote in pentax.list:
I believe many will jump ship instead of buying the *ist D. When people
realize that they have to buy new lenses anyway to get real advantage of this
camera, they will think twice of making that commitment to Pentax.
I don't agree. Why should I
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Heiko Hamann) wrote:
I don't agree. Why should I have to buy new lenses? The *istD is fully
compatible to K-mount and uses even 645 and 67 lenses. There is no other
system with such compatibility. If you refer to the 1.5x field of view
crop - this applies to all
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:45:48 -0500
Bill wrote:
I just looked it up. APS negative is16.7 x 30.2mm, half frame of course is
18 x 24, making the half frame about 16% smaller than APS.
And Minox subminiature size is, I think, 8 x 11mm.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rob wrote:
Har, I posted a comment and link re the *ist D (I really hate typing that) on
aus.photo and yesterday and it didn't even provoke a reply.
The *ist D will suffer the same fate as that Sigma DSLR which was so anonymous that I
can't remember what it looks like nor its name. Perhaps
On 28 Feb 2003 at 8:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Let's hang the bloody mutineers!
Maybe if you don't like the Pentax product it's time to leave.
Quit whining about it and do something else with your time and money.
And go pester somebody else's list with all the bitching and moaning.
I'm
I'm calling all of you out. Meet me on the street at High Noon wearin'
your Colt strapped to your leg, or get out of Dodge!
Can I bring one of my beautiful black Pentax MXs and take some pics ?
baccy in tin
Ol One-Eyed Cot
Oh, swipe me! He paints with
You left out the semi-pro DZLR segment with cameras like the Olympus
E20, Minolta Dimage 7, Sony 707, Nikon 5700, etc. Quite a few of these
have been sold already. The small size/weight of the Pentax DSLR would
let it compete directly with them provided it sells at around the same
price.
On 27 Feb 2003 at 17:48, Lawrence Kwan wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with *ist D's design; in fact, I like it. The
worst thing is to try to be different just for the sake of being
different. Look at Olympus' 4/3 prototype monster, would you call that
distinctive and imaginative enough?
Pål wrote:
To me it seems like the *ist D
is directly targeted at the run of the mill slr user
who wants to
upgrade to digital. It is clearly designed to appeal
to as many people as
possible. This is understandable. It has nothing of
the sex appeal
(unfortunately) that the Pentax (and
Hi Pål,
on 28 Feb 03 you wrote in pentax.list:
I don't agree. Why should I have to buy new lenses? The *istD is
fully compatible to K-mount and uses even 645 and 67 lenses.
Because you don't want to use those lenses. The 645 and 67 lenses
compatibility is a joke with no real world usage.
OK,
Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm calling all of you out. Meet me on the street at High Noon wearin'
your Colt strapped to your leg, or get out of Dodge!
Can I bring one of my beautiful black Pentax MXs and take some pics ?
Hey, you were the first to mutiny!
--
Mark Roberts
Photography and
On 03.2.28 8:29 AM, Pål Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pentax need to grab some attention. The only attention the *ist D will get is
the one immediately after the news about it breaks. Oh, Pentax has release a
DSLR. Nice! Then its forgotten completely and people buy the Nikon or Canon
DSLR.
I mean, who cares about if *ist D can take great pictures, who
cares if it has competitive features, who cares if it feels good
in your hands, who cares if it is affordable since it looks
too much like other cameras, it has to be DOOMED, right?!?
sigh I am speechless shaking my head
Right! It slowed down really quickly when someone said, Okay,
who's going to actually BUY one!
Loud silence...
Well, not me. I have to wait until the right phase of the moon,
etc.
And then there will be the interminable PDML threads a year or so
from now when we will all (some more than
If it were full frame I'd be looking for an order form, even
though I'd really like 10MP+ I guess 6MP would do.
If the APS-sized models (did I use a plural there?) are successful,
a full-frame 35mm Pentax DSLR would eventually come. Price-wise
(for the sensor), it will eventually become quite
Heiko wrote:
User interface doesn't count.
Yes it is! Just try a Canon Powershot S40 and a Pentax Optio. The user
interface of a DSLR is much more important than that of a SLR
That wasn't my point. The point is that without getting people attention they won't
check out the interface. I
Pål Jensen wrote:
Pentax need to grab some attention. The only attention the *ist D will
get is
the one immediately after the news about it breaks. Oh, Pentax has
release a
DSLR. Nice! Then its forgotten completely and people buy the Nikon or
Canon
DSLR. The *ist D is forgettable. It doesn't
First of all, re this thread title, it's not D10, it's 10D. Pendant I may
be, but these errors are potentially confusing. (For instance, the D1 is a
Nikon, the 1D is a Canon.)
And then there will be the interminable PDML threads a year or so
from now when we will all (some more than others) be
User interface doesn't count.
Yes it is! Just try a Canon Powershot S40 and a Pentax Optio. The user
interface of a DSLR is much more important than that of a SLR
That wasn't my point. The point is that without getting people attention
they won't check out the interface. I do not know the
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Mike Johnston wrote:
I really got a laugh out of the fact that Pentax SPECIFIED that the *ist D
will work with screwmount lenses. To me, that's proof positive that they
monitor this list. Not one in a thousand average camera customers cares
about such arcana.
Not just the
Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I really got a laugh out of the fact that Pentax SPECIFIED that the *ist D
will work with screwmount lenses. To me, that's proof positive that they
monitor this list.
That's exactly what I thought when I saw their detailed list of what
lenses would work! g
Actually I think they are also pointing out to all
those spotmatic users, old 67 and 645 users, k1000
students, that they have an up/side/down grade path.
( that was intentional BTW )
--- gfen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 28
Feb 2003, Mike Johnston wrote:
I really got a laugh out of the
I was at the Photo Expo here in NYC last fall. People were packed around
the Canon, Nikon and Kodak booths to handle the DSLRs. The Sigma booth
was as busy as a Siberian ice cream stand in January.
BR
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pål wrote: The Sigma is an irrelevant DSLR
Is that true? I heard
If the list became strictly a Pentax love-fest, it wouldn't be as
interesting to read :-) .
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Let's hang the bloody mutineers!
Maybe if you don't like the Pentax product it's time to leave.
Quit whining about it and do something else with your time and money.
And go
You left out the semi-pro DZLR segment with cameras like the Olympus
E20, Minolta Dimage 7, Sony 707, Nikon 5700, etc. Quite a few of these
have been sold already. The small size/weight of the Pentax DSLR would
let it compete directly with them provided it sells at around the same
price.
1.) Sales incentives for sales people in traditional stores, ie where they
are on commission.
It's amazing what a relatively small incentive will do.
2.) Actually getting the product into stores so those sales people will see
the item.
3.) Get other Pentax SLR products into volume
Can we forget about the Pendant! I did correct that I really did.
At 10:38 AM 2/28/2003 -0600, you wrote:
First of all, re this thread title, it's not D10, it's 10D. Pendant I may
be, but these errors are potentially confusing. (For instance, the D1 is a
Nikon, the 1D is a Canon.)
And then
I agree. Now that Pentax have this new DSLR, I HOPE
they don't make the same mistake they always have
made: they never tell anyone /or aggressively market
it!
Given the tough market out there for digital, it would
be in there best interest to do so.
Peter
--- Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Stan,
Ok, I'll comment on the memory cards. All my other digital cameras
(3) use CF cards. Part of the criteria for choosing them was that
they accepted CF cards. Also, all my digitals use AA batteries
(hi-capacity NH rechargeables) along with my flashes, so I am very
happy they made those
Not for the size and weight, and dumb little things
like the inability to turn e-ttl off. Offer me more
first.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
If you could strike up a magic deal whereby
listers were offered equivalent
Nikon or Canon glass for each of their
- Original Message -
From: Pål Jensen
Subject: Re: Position: *ist-D D10
I cannot see how you can achieve this by making cameras that looks like
another companys camera. I don't think small size will make much impact.
The only real similarities that are obvious between the Pentax
Pal, how can you be disappointed that a Pentax SLR is strictly for the
K-mount base without any vision beyond that? Aren't the C***N cameras
strictly for the EOS base? And the N***n cameras only accept their
own-mount lenses.
The *ist-D appears to accept every Pentax or third-party K-mount
Mis-informed. Try checking the BH prices for identical, new, AF lenses
and see what the prices are. Many of the Nikon (US) prices for primes
are lower some are higher. A blanket statement would be WRONG.
What you like is your own business.
BR
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know THE SAME Nikon or
On 03.2.28 6:13 PM, Bruce Rubenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What you like is your own business.
Right!
Ken
On 28 Feb 2003 at 11:17, Mike Johnston wrote:
The only constant is change, I guess. I can't wait for the first message I
see in which some guy complains that 11 mp is just no longer competitive and he
_needs_ more...the day will come, that much seems certain.
The fact is that I have had a 4MP
: Position: *ist-D D10
I agree wholeheartedly with Pal; the thing is butt ugly,
Pure subjective opinion - I and many others don't agree.
and that giant plastic knob sticking out on the top right is bound to be
problematic. It is going to snap off with the slightest provocation
Message
From: Bruce Rubenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:13:58 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Let's hang the mutineers! (was Position: *ist-D D10)
Mis-informed. Try checking the BH prices for identical, new, AF
lenses
and see what the prices are. Many of the Nikon
www.digitalpreview.com has quite a few people
discussing the new *ist-D. Generally the response is
positive. Most think this is a good move by Pentax.
They feel that it's tiny size if it's priced about
$1000, it will be a hit. Don't forget that Pentax
maybe be hitting a lower price point that is
Optio/current Optio buyers/users move onto
the *ist D ?
We'll have to wait and see won't we..
Dave
Original Message:
-
From: Peter Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:43:06 -0800 (PST)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Position: *ist-D D10
Bruce
No, because a DSLR and digi PS are too far apart in price. A maker
needs a full line (price) so that a sales person can say, You can start
with this Pentax (PS) at the low end, or move up to this Pentax (DSLR)
at the high end. You don't want them to say start with Pentax and move
to Olympus,
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l_Jensen?=
Peter wrote:
They feel that it's tiny size if it's priced
about
$1000, it will be a hit. Don't forget that Pentax
maybe be hitting a lower price point that is vacant
at
the moment.
I see no reasons that Pentax should be able to sell
a DSLR cheaper
In another group there was a mention of the price being $1900 according
to a press release. This would be in keeping with the construction
(magnesium) of the camera.
BR
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nobody knows that so far. There are several numbers
floating around for the D10 price, and I am
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, [iso-8859-1] Pål Jensen wrote:
And as the Pentax is too indistinctive apart from it size, which is not
a selling point among the pro look wannabees,
I disagree, Pål.
I don't see anything wrong with *ist D's design; in fact, I like it. The
worst thing is to try to be
Alexander wrote:
Why so? As I said, it is is a new genre of DSLRs.
Sure, there will be cameras with higher MPs but those
will be also much, much more expensive. People on
this list compare different cameras and lenses as if
they were all for free :-)
It is just that I don't think Pentax
now. By July this camera may be uncompetitive. Price of the *ist D is
Huh??? Canon's EOS 10D just announced is not that different from *ist D.
But it's supposed to ship in March.
Regards,
ukasz
PS. I'm not dissing the *ist D, just clarifying things.
William wrote:
Pål, I am amazed that a person who claims to be performance driven can be so
disapointed in a piece of equipment that has no real world performance
evaluations.
Nobody cares how things they don't notice performs.
Pål
Pål wrote:
I think you're making the mistake of assuming that
having the product
make the customers come. It isn't like that. The
danger is that nobody
will notive this camera except those married to the
K-mount.
Never before have Pentax made such derivative design
as the *ist. Great
Pål wrote:
I'm dissapointed by the *ist D because it is strictly
for the K-mount
base without any vision beyond that. I'm sorry, but my
bet is that the
*ist D is totally forgotten after PMA except by us.
Hell, its probably
forgotten already after the news of the new Canon.
Not true. READ
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:58:07 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=E5l_Jensen?=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alexander wrote:
Why so? As I said, it is is a new genre of DSLRs.
Sure, there will be cameras with higher MPs but
those
will be also much, much more expensive. People on
this list compare
Lawrence wrote:
To most people, a SLR should look like a SLR; it's
hard to make it
stylish without looking cheesy. And *ist D control
layout is well
honed
and well proven; and it is ergonomically driven. This
is much more
important than to change everthing just to make it
look different
from
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:40:11 -0600
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I
really only care about how it will feel in my hands
(primary
importance) and
how well it takes pictures.
If the ergonomics are good, and it works easily
enough that I can
operate
it, then life is good.
If it
- Original Message -
From: Pål Jensen
Subject: Re: Position: *ist-D D10
Nobody cares how things they don't notice performs.
I suppose they could have made it look like a Yashica Samurai. It would
certainly have been unique looking.
Of course, the Samurai fell flat on it's ass
On 03.2.27 7:53 PM, alexanderkrohe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sure there will soon be other makers with economic DSLRs but the market is
growing fast. Competition will help to enlarge this market.
Only a year ago, Sony or Panasonic SLR did not come into my mind. Now.
Ken
I suppose they could have made it look like a Yashica Samurai. It would
certainly have been unique looking.
Of course, the Samurai fell flat on it's ass.
Proving that inique looks don't guarantee market ownership.
Hey, Wheatfield, I resemble that remark :-) I really kinda like my Samurai.
- Original Message -
From: Bill Owens
Subject: Re: Position: *ist-D D10
I suppose they could have made it look like a Yashica Samurai. It would
certainly have been unique looking.
Of course, the Samurai fell flat on it's ass.
Proving that inique looks don't guarantee market
I suppose they could have made it look like a Yashica Samurai. It
would
certainly have been unique looking.
Of course, the Samurai fell flat on it's ass.
Proving that inique looks don't guarantee market ownership.
Hey, Wheatfield, I resemble that remark :-) I really kinda like
- Original Message -
From: Bill Owens
Subject: Re: Position: *ist-D D10
Yes, probably so. I'm often asked if I'm shooting with a video camera,
and
isn't the half frame slightly smaller even than an APS negative?
A wee bit. I don't know the exact size of the APS frame, somewhere
A wee bit. I don't know the exact size of the APS frame, somewhere around
17x27mm I think. I know it was batted around recently, as the digital SLR
chip is APS sized.
The negative format of the Advanced Photo System is 16.7 mm x 30.2 mm
There you have it.
William Robb
Yes, probably so. I'm often asked if I'm shooting with a video camera,
and
isn't the half frame slightly smaller even than an APS negative?
A wee bit. I don't know the exact size of the APS frame, somewhere around
17x27mm I think. I know it was batted around recently, as the digital SLR
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