Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-24 Thread Ned Wolpert

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On 23-Oct-2001 Peter Eisentraut wrote:
 Gunnar Rønning writes: 
 | * In numerous attempts I have failed to convince Ant to place the built
 | files in a tree different from the source tree.  This really makes it a
 | pain to build for multiple architectures (in Java, architecture =
 | different jdk).

 javac srcdir=${src}
  destdir=${build}
  classpath=xyz.jar
  debug=on
   /


 Is that what you want ?
 
 Yes, but ant refused to recognize the srcdir as absolute and thinks it's
 relative to the build dir.  (Or at least it was something stupid like
 that; it's been a while.)

That should work fine.  I've been doing that since Ant version 1.3. Do you have
a specific case that doesn't work?  (You can always specify absolute paths in
the properties, if you like...)
 
 From the Ant manual :

 It is possible to use different compilers. This can be selected with
 the build.compiler property.
 
 Yeah, but how do you set the build.compiler property?  This requires
 pretty advanced knowledge.

You can either set-it in the build.xml file via a property tag
  property name=build.compiler value=jikes/
or during the startup of ant using the -D flag.  (set the ANT_OPTS var to
-Dbuild.compiler=jikes in your environment before running ant)  


Virtually, 
Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-23 Thread Gunnar Rønning

* Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
|  Seriously would installing GNU Make be enough, or would you need to install
|  Cygwin and other packages as well ?
| 
| GNU make runs natively on Windows.

I know and I've used GNU Make when working with Windows, but that taught
me that you often need alot more than GNU Make to port a makefile to Windows.

Maybe maintaining two versions would be the best, ie. Make is used
when building the distribution and Ant makefiles are provided for the
convenience of users that think Ant works better. 

Then you could probably setup some very simple Makefile without full
dependency graph(if you want that you need rely on a tool like jikes
to generate it for you).  That basically means that you need to
recompile all *.java files when you have edited one Java file. 


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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-23 Thread Bruce Momjian

 Gunnar R?nning writes:
 
  Seriously would installing GNU Make be enough, or would you need to install
  Cygwin and other packages as well ?
 
 GNU make runs natively on Windows.

We do allow ODBC to be built natively on MS Windows.  Does that require
gmake or can it use native MSWin buildfiles?  I see win32.mak but that
looks like a standard Makefile.  If we require gmake on Win32 to build
ODBC, can't we require it for jdbc?

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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-23 Thread Peter Eisentraut

Gunnar Rønning writes:

 Seriously would installing GNU Make be enough, or would you need to install
 Cygwin and other packages as well ?

GNU make runs natively on Windows.

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-22 Thread Ned Wolpert

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On 20-Oct-2001 Gunnar Rønning wrote:
| * Ant doesn't provide an exit status; you have to watch the build to see
| if it works.  This is unacceptable.
 
 Hmm. Anybody with a solution here ?

Actuall, it does.

Example:

[wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ ant build
Buildfile: build.xml

prepare:

build:

BUILD SUCCESSFUL

Total time: 2 seconds
[wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ echo $?
0
[wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ ant build
Buildfile: build.xml

prepare:

build:
[javac] Compiling 1 source file to /home/wolpert/test/configTest/classes
[javac] /home/wolpert/test/configTest/src/GetAll.java:25: ';' expected
[javac] jdo.setDatabaseName(configTest);
[javac]^
[javac] /home/wolpert/test/configTest/src/GetAll.java:24: cannot resolve
symbol
[javac] symbol  : class fds  
[javac] location: class GetAll
[javac] jdo.setConfiguration(/database.xml);fds
[javac]   ^
[javac] /home/wolpert/test/configTest/src/GetAll.java:25: jdo is already
defined in getDatabase()
[javac] jdo.setDatabaseName(configTest);
[javac] ^
[javac] 3 errors

BUILD FAILED

/home/wolpert/test/configTest/build.xml:35: Compile failed, messages should
have been provided.

Total time: 4 seconds
[wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ echo $?
1
[wolpert@wolpert configTest]$ 



Virtually, 
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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-20 Thread Peter Eisentraut

Ned Wolpert writes:

 3) Java is system independant, and the JDBC driver is a client piece.  I should
 be able to compile the JDBC driver outside of PostgreSQL server if I wanted to,
 right?  Example, I can't compile PostgreSQL on windozes 95.  But I could
 compile the JDBC driver via ant if Java and ant are installed.  (Or, rather, I
 should be able to)

You can also install GNU make on Windows.

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-20 Thread Gunnar Rønning

* Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| * Ant needs to be installed.  Of course this is not that much of a
| problem because you can simply install it.  However, in automated build
| environments this might not be so easy, so people are just going to opt to
| leave out the JDBC driver.

This can be solved by including the ant binaries.

| * Ant doesn't provide an exit status; you have to watch the build to see
| if it works.  This is unacceptable.

Hmm. Anybody with a solution here ?

| 
| * In numerous attempts I have failed to convince Ant to place the built
| files in a tree different from the source tree.  This really makes it a
| pain to build for multiple architectures (in Java, architecture =
| different jdk).

javac srcdir=${src}
 destdir=${build}
 classpath=xyz.jar
 debug=on
  /


Is that what you want ? 

| 
| * Ant doesn't support gcj last I checked.  This is a real tragedy because
| gcj is the only free(tm) Java compiler available that seems to have a real
| future.  Ant doesn't support Kaffe very well, btw.

It does support it now according to the documentation. I think open source 
jikes has a better future as a compiler, but it is not free in the GNU sense.

| * The Ant language is not nearly as powerful as the stuff you can do in
| Makefiles.

Well, make doesn't solve the build problems for Java. Ant is made to remedy the
problems with make and create and easier to use build tool for Java apps. The
adoption rate of Ant suggests that the developers have been doing something 
right ;-)

| 
| * Ant is, well, different.  I have personally spent a lot of effort to
| make all parts of PostgreSQL build the same way.  Every new language has
| to reinvent configuration and build management:  Perl MakeMaker -- total
| junk, Python distutils -- no thanks, Tcl -- well, at least they had the
| right idea.  Ant -- one more thing to go wrong.  Currently, everything you
| want to switch and change about the build of PostgreSQL you communicate to
| the configure script.  How do you change the Java compiler?  Good question
| -- not even the Ant manual can answer that because it depends on your
| particular distribution.

From the Ant manual :

It is possible to use different compilers. This can be selected with
the build.compiler property.

| 
| The problem is that Ant is a completely new and different tool that we
| have to deal with, but it doesn't actually solve a problem that hasn't
| been solved already.

It solves some of the problems with make and it runs easily on platforms
like Windows and Mac.

When Ant 2.0 comes it will be a even more general task/build system as it will
allow for scheduling ala cron as well. But that is off-topic ;-)

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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-20 Thread Gunnar Rønning

* Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
|  compile the JDBC driver via ant if Java and ant are installed.  (Or, rather, I
|  should be able to)
| 
| You can also install GNU make on Windows.

This is how we used to build or apps on Windows before Ant, but we portability
issues with respect to scripts invoked from make is a PITA, IMHO ;-)

Seriously would installing GNU Make be enough, or would you need to install 
Cygwin and other packages as well ? Has anybody tested this ? I suspect that
something like that would not work painless.
 
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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-20 Thread Dave Cramer



Dave Cramer writes:

 The one issue I have with a non ant based build system is that it 
 makes it difficult to build the driver on a windows machine.

That is a valid concern that we're going to have to think about before
we move to another method.

 What problems does ant present?

* Ant needs to be installed.  Of course this is not that much of a
problem because you can simply install it.  However, in automated build
environments this might not be so easy, so people are just going to opt
to leave out the JDBC driver.

I'm sure we can use the Makefile to install the ant jar.

* Ant doesn't provide an exit status; you have to watch the build to see
if it works.  This is unacceptable.

Hmmm... I will look into this

* Ant is buggy.  We've had numerous reports of people having trouble
with it for no apparent reason.  I can also confirm from my own
experience that numerous things don't seem to work the way they should
work.

I find this a little hard to believe given the number of projects which
use ant as a primary build tool. jarkarta.apache.org for instance

* In numerous attempts I have failed to convince Ant to place the built
files in a tree different from the source tree.  This really makes it a
pain to build for multiple architectures (in Java, architecture =
different jdk).

I think this can be overcome. I have had no problems with this.

* Ant doesn't support gcj last I checked.  This is a real tragedy
because gcj is the only free(tm) Java compiler available that seems to
have a real future.  Ant doesn't support Kaffe very well, btw.

There are a number of free compilers, sun's is free, ibm's is free

* The Ant language is not nearly as powerful as the stuff you can do in
Makefiles.

No comment  I am Make challenged, but Ant is pretty comprehensive...

* Ant is, well, different.  I have personally spent a lot of effort to
make all parts of PostgreSQL build the same way.  Every new language has
to reinvent configuration and build management:  Perl MakeMaker -- total
junk, Python distutils -- no thanks, Tcl -- well, at least they had the
right idea.  Ant -- one more thing to go wrong.  Currently, everything
you want to switch and change about the build of PostgreSQL you
communicate to the configure script.  How do you change the Java
compiler?  Good question
-- not even the Ant manual can answer that because it depends on your
particular distribution.

Change the $JAVA_HOME environment variable AFAIK

The problem is that Ant is a completely new and different tool that we
have to deal with, but it doesn't actually solve a problem that hasn't
been solved already.

Well, this is a little philosophical, but my current focus is java, and
ant is the de-facto standard for building java programs, so I guess I'm
biased towards it.

One thing it does solve is the ability to resolve inter-dependancies
automatically. I have had builds which can only be built by ant, or by
building the entire source tree at once. This is one feature which is
usefull.

As for a solution. My opinion is that we should support both.

There seems to be enough interested parties to support both build tools.
For the folks that want a Makefile, they can support it. If someone
wants to support the build.xml file, then we should encourage it. I
suspect that one of them will become obsolete on it's own. 

Dave


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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-20 Thread Gunnar Rønning

* Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| 
| There seems to be enough interested parties to support both build tools.
| For the folks that want a Makefile, they can support it. If someone
| wants to support the build.xml file, then we should encourage it. I
| suspect that one of them will become obsolete on it's own. 

I think that would be the best as well for time being. Don't remove ant 
support as that is very useful for the people working on the JDBC code, and
add standard make files for building the system. Make itself is not designed
to work with a language like Java, so you need third party tools to handle 
dependencies. 

Gunnar



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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Bruce Momjian


OK, TODO item removed.


 * Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 |
 | I think I can safely at to TODO:
 | 
 | JDBC
 | o Move from Ant to Make builds
 
 I don't think there is consesus over at the JDBC list yet. We need to get
 all the pros/cons for both solutions on the table first. Make is not 
 neccesarily better than Ant, I would think a combination would work best. 
 Because then Mac and Windows users could use Ant to compile their JDBC
 driver, while the compilation of the server on Unices would work
 seamlessly.
 
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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Ned Wolpert

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On 19-Oct-2001 Bruce Momjian wrote:
 One significant issue here is that unlike our other binaries, the JAR
 files run on any platform so they don't really need to compile in MS
 Win.  They can just download it from a web site or we could ship the
 jdbc JAR ourselves.

True.  I was really looking at it from those who wanted to build the jar from
source. If we make the jarfile available from the website, that's good for the
PostgreSQL releases, but it may not help those who want/need the JDBC driver
updated from CVS.


Virtually, 
Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Bruce Momjian

 I guess I can make an argument either way.  The real way to answer this is to
 ask if one cares if you can build the JDBC driver on window's only platform
 without cygwin installed.  
 
   -If the answer is no, that one wouldn't build the JDBC driver without building
the rest of postgresql, then the build process should be tied to make, like
the rest of postgresql, for simplisity in maintence.
 
   -However, if the JDBC driver should be able to be built without having to
build postgresql, (on platforms without UNIX-compatiablity layer like cygwin)
for client use only, then yes, use Ant to achive platform-independance.

One significant issue here is that unlike our other binaries, the JAR
files run on any platform so they don't really need to compile in MS
Win.  They can just download it from a web site or we could ship the
jdbc JAR ourselves.

-- 
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  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
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Re: FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Gunnar Rønning

* Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

|  Win.  They can just download it from a web site or we could ship the
|  jdbc JAR ourselves.
| 
| True.  I was really looking at it from those who wanted to build the jar from
| source. If we make the jarfile available from the website, that's good for the
| PostgreSQL releases, but it may not help those who want/need the JDBC driver
| updated from CVS.

And it doesn't help potential _JDBC driver_ developers sitting on
Windows platforms either. But me too is usually all Linux or Solaris,
but I'm just trying to illuminate the issues.

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Gunnar Rønning

* Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
|  Specifically, if we can include the ANT libraries in our CVS then my 
|  objection to ANT (requiring users to trackdown and download ANT) goes 
|  away, and I would then suggest we continue to use ANT for the other 
|  reasons you mention.
| 
| Works for me. As I mentioned in my last email, I'm easy about this one.  As
| long as I can build it in Linux/UNIX, I'm happy.  Its an added benefit to
| the postgresql community that it can be built on Windows and Mac.  

If we can include ant binaries that would be the best I agree. The Apache 
license shouldn't cause any trouble here, but mayve the size would ? What 
is the minimum required size of the Ant binaries anyway ?

cheers, 

Gunnar

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FW: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Ned Wolpert

I meant to send this to the group...

-FW: [EMAIL PROTECTED]-

Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:45:43 -0700 (MST)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Barry Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

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Two cents with of thought... :-)

On 18-Oct-2001 Barry Lind wrote:
 * People with Java background probably know Ant better that
   'make'.   Ant seems to become 'build tool of choice' in
   Java world.
 
 Perhaps, but I'm not convinced that either of these arguments is true. 
 I have seen make used by more projects than ant, and a developer 
 building postgres from source, certainly needs to be familiar with make.

Ant is great in a pure-java project.  I have seen ant used as the primary
build engine in many Java projects, and it works great for me.  But, here are
some (conflicting) thoughts.

1) To some degree, the make process of PostgreSQL should be consistant.  Ant
and Make are two seperate building systems.  Its easier to put the JDBC driver
into make than it is to put postgresql into ant.

2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but currently, Make is needed to run Ant in the
JDBC driver anyways, right? (To grab the version numbers and set the properties
when running ant)

Yet...

3) Java is system independant, and the JDBC driver is a client piece.  I should
be able to compile the JDBC driver outside of PostgreSQL server if I wanted to,
right?  Example, I can't compile PostgreSQL on windozes 95.  But I could
compile the JDBC driver via ant if Java and ant are installed.  (Or, rather, I
should be able to)

4) Ant doesn't need to be 'installed' in other projects. Rather, they include
the needed ant libs in the CVS, which is allowed by the license, and create a
build script to call the ant process to build.  (Usually a build.sh and a
build.bat) We could do that to also set the version numbers rather than have
make do it.

I guess I can make an argument either way.  The real way to answer this is to
ask if one cares if you can build the JDBC driver on window's only platform
without cygwin installed.  

  -If the answer is no, that one wouldn't build the JDBC driver without building
   the rest of postgresql, then the build process should be tied to make, like
   the rest of postgresql, for simplisity in maintence.

  -However, if the JDBC driver should be able to be built without having to
   build postgresql, (on platforms without UNIX-compatiablity layer like cygwin)
   for client use only, then yes, use Ant to achive platform-independance.

I'm lucky enough to only work with Linux, so I don't really care on the outcome
of this :-) I can work with either.


Virtually, 
Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Ned Wolpert

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On 19-Oct-2001 Barry Lind wrote:
 Did you send this just to me or the entire list.  It appears that you 
 sent it just to me.  I think the good points you make here should be 
 seen by everyone.  Can you send it to the pgsql-jdbc list?

Whoops. Yeah, I just now resent it to the group.  Thanks for catching that.
 
 Specifically, if we can include the ANT libraries in our CVS then my 
 objection to ANT (requiring users to trackdown and download ANT) goes 
 away, and I would then suggest we continue to use ANT for the other 
 reasons you mention.

Works for me. As I mentioned in my last email, I'm easy about this one.  As
long as I can build it in Linux/UNIX, I'm happy.  Its an added benefit to
the postgresql community that it can be built on Windows and Mac.  


Virtually, 
Ned Wolpert [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Gunnar Rønning

* Dave Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| The one issue I have with a non ant based build system is that it makes
| it difficult to build the driver on a windows machine.

I think is a valid concern, since a lot of clients presumably will be running
on other architectures.  

Maybe a twofold solution ?

1. a very simple make file that doesn't care about dependencies and such.
2. ant as an alternative for developers and users of other
   platforms.

And I think more and more projects are migrating towards using Ant. Even
I have done so after 10 years of using make ;-)

-- 
Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-19 Thread Gunnar Rønning

* Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
| I think I can safely at to TODO:
| 
| JDBC
| o Move from Ant to Make builds

I don't think there is consesus over at the JDBC list yet. We need to get
all the pros/cons for both solutions on the table first. Make is not 
neccesarily better than Ant, I would think a combination would work best. 
Because then Mac and Windows users could use Ant to compile their JDBC
driver, while the compilation of the server on Unices would work
seamlessly.

-- 
Gunnar Rønning - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-18 Thread Vianen, Jeroen van

 -Original Message-
 From: Dave Cramer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 03:17
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration
 
 
 Given that ant is (or is becoming) the defacto standard for building
 java apps I am reluctant to remove it. A number of projects simply
 include the ant jar in the download. 

And why not include the postgresql.jar in the download as well? Problem
solved for most people. Preferably even separate jar files for jdbc1 and
jdbc2.

I vote for keeping ant support as well.


Jeroen

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-18 Thread Marko Kreen

On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 07:37:27PM -0700, Barry Lind wrote:
 
 I am one of the jdbc maintainers.  That is why I posted this to the list 
 as I did.  I wanted to see if there was concensus on this issue one way 
 or the other.  In looking at your patch, I don't have any problems with 
 it technically, but I would hate to have it applied, only to remove the 
 entire functionality in the future (although I guess that doesn't really 
 hurt anything).

Ok.

 I do appreciate you taking your time to put this patch together and 
 submitting it.  That is how open source projects work after all.  I just 
 want to make sure there is agreement that this is the right direction 
 people want the jdbc driver to go.

No problem.

About Ant-Makefile thing I still cant convince myself that this is
a project worth doing.  Ant's only downside is that user needs
to set it up separately and its not a very easy thing to do.
And at the time of Ant 1.1 this was a real problem (for me at
least) as Ant had rather obscure compatibility problems with
various XML libs and finally I decided that 'Ant sucks'.
But with Ant 1.3/1.4 they seems to have that kind of a problems
under control and at least I have not had any problems with it
since then.

But it seems to me that Ant has a positive side too:

* People with Java background probably know Ant better that
  'make'.   Ant seems to become 'build tool of choice' in
  Java world.

* When Ant is set up, it takes care of all local Java
  environment, so we in PostgreSQL source do not need
  to bother about it.

* In Ant the build file will be much less complex
  than a Makefile with same functionality.  And same
  time in Ant it is much easier to check local
  Java internal setup.

Basically I am able to do it, I have managed moderately
sized Java project with Makefile, but it was not nice.
You could check JDBC Makefile from Jan 2001 - it is quite
messy.


-- 
marko


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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-18 Thread Barry Lind

Marko,


 
 But it seems to me that Ant has a positive side too:


I agree that there are positive reasons to use Ant (that is why it was 
done in the first place).  It is just that in retrospect, I don't 
believe the pluses outweigh the minuses.

 
 * People with Java background probably know Ant better that
   'make'.   Ant seems to become 'build tool of choice' in
   Java world.


Perhaps, but I'm not convinced that either of these arguments is true. 
I have seen make used by more projects than ant, and a developer 
building postgres from source, certainly needs to be familiar with make.

 
 * When Ant is set up, it takes care of all local Java
   environment, so we in PostgreSQL source do not need
   to bother about it.


I'm not sure what you mean here.  Can you provide an example?

 
 * In Ant the build file will be much less complex
   than a Makefile with same functionality.  And same
   time in Ant it is much easier to check local
   Java internal setup.
 


I agree that this is true, but I think a much better job can be done to 
minimize the added complexity.  I have looked at the old makefile and it 
was quite complex.  But I have ideas on how to reduce that complexity.

Basically I want to trade off a little more complexity on the part of 
the developers of jdbc, for less complexity for users to install and build.

thanks,
--Barry


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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-18 Thread Dave Cramer

The one issue I have with a non ant based build system is that it makes
it difficult to build the driver on a windows machine.

Currently I can build the driver on windows without using cygwin

What problems does ant present?

Dave

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Peter Eisentraut
Sent: October 18, 2001 5:04 PM
To: Barry Lind
Cc: Marko Kreen; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration


Barry Lind writes:

 I don't like this patch.  If anything I think we should remove the 
 dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make.

The use of Ant originally seemed attractive because it would solve the
detection of the jdk version, the portable invocation of the compiler,
and the dependency generation.  However, I must currently consider this
experiment a failure, because for each problem Ant solves it introduces
a load of worse problems into the system.  Thus, if we can agree to work
out a configure/make-based system for the next release I would be very
much for it.

-- 
Peter Eisentraut   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://funkturm.homeip.net/~peter


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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-18 Thread Bruce Momjian

 Barry Lind writes:
 
  I don't like this patch.  If anything I think we should remove the
  dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make.
 
 The use of Ant originally seemed attractive because it would solve the
 detection of the jdk version, the portable invocation of the compiler, and
 the dependency generation.  However, I must currently consider this
 experiment a failure, because for each problem Ant solves it introduces a
 load of worse problems into the system.  Thus, if we can agree to work out
 a configure/make-based system for the next release I would be very much
 for it.

I think I can safely at to TODO:

JDBC
o Move from Ant to Make builds

-- 
  Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive, |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.|  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-18 Thread Thomas O'Dowd

  * In Ant the build file will be much less complex
than a Makefile with same functionality.  And same
time in Ant it is much easier to check local
Java internal setup.
 
 I agree that this is true, but I think a much better job can be done to 
 minimize the added complexity.  I have looked at the old makefile and it 
 was quite complex.  But I have ideas on how to reduce that complexity.
 
 Basically I want to trade off a little more complexity on the part of 
 the developers of jdbc, for less complexity for users to install and build.

I don't mind either way really, but I don't see why the makefile should
need to be so complex. One option is also since Postgresql uses configure
to build, we can use configure to help us detect whatever we need to 
if --with-java is turned on and set suitable options/paths etc in the makefile.
That said I haven't really looked at the current build process for the driver.

Tom.
-- 
Thomas O'Dowd. - Nooping - http://nooper.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Testing - http://nooper.co.jp/labs

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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-17 Thread Barry Lind

I don't like this patch.  If anything I think we should remove the 
dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make.

By requiring ANT, we provide yet another hurdle for someone wanting to 
use JDBC with postgres.  I would prefer that the build environment be 
the same for the database as for the jdbc code.

Anything that makes it more difficult to download the source and get 
going with it is a negative in my opinion.  And from my perspective 
requiring the download of an additional tool (ANT in this case) makes it 
more difficult.

I already know that some binary distributions of postgres do not include 
JDBC simply because it is too complex to get ANT installed in their 
build environment. (complex perhaps isn't the right word, but it is more 
work than they are willing to put in for a small feature of postgres).

thanks,
--Barry




Marko Kreen wrote:

 I dusted a old patch that integrates Ant better with
 autoconf.  It creates a file src/ant.cfg.in to pass
 autoconf parameters to Ant.  Now Ant can be used directly,
 without going through Makefile.
 
 'install.directory' is still passed in Makefile to keep
 DESTDIR working.
 
 



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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-17 Thread Marko Kreen

On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 01:23:13PM -0700, Barry Lind wrote:
 I don't like this patch.  If anything I think we should remove the 
 dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make.
 
 By requiring ANT, we provide yet another hurdle for someone wanting to 
 use JDBC with postgres.  I would prefer that the build environment be 
 the same for the database as for the jdbc code.
 
 Anything that makes it more difficult to download the source and get 
 going with it is a negative in my opinion.  And from my perspective 
 requiring the download of an additional tool (ANT in this case) makes it 
 more difficult.

I have no strong feelings about current situation, I simply made
it more flexible.  About changing it, you should consult JDBC
maintainers first, maybe they have some good reason why its
so...

 I already know that some binary distributions of postgres do not include 
 JDBC simply because it is too complex to get ANT installed in their 
 build environment. (complex perhaps isn't the right word, but it is more 
 work than they are willing to put in for a small feature of postgres).

JDBC driver is simply a .jar file, I think it should be more
easily downloadable from main website.  (JDBC1/JDBC2 edition...)

-- 
marko


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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-17 Thread Dave Cramer

Given that ant is (or is becoming) the defacto standard for building
java apps I am reluctant to remove it. A number of projects simply
include the ant jar in the download. 

Dave 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Barry Lind
Sent: October 17, 2001 4:23 PM
To: Marko Kreen
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration


I don't like this patch.  If anything I think we should remove the 
dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make.

By requiring ANT, we provide yet another hurdle for someone wanting to 
use JDBC with postgres.  I would prefer that the build environment be 
the same for the database as for the jdbc code.

Anything that makes it more difficult to download the source and get 
going with it is a negative in my opinion.  And from my perspective 
requiring the download of an additional tool (ANT in this case) makes it

more difficult.

I already know that some binary distributions of postgres do not include

JDBC simply because it is too complex to get ANT installed in their 
build environment. (complex perhaps isn't the right word, but it is more

work than they are willing to put in for a small feature of postgres).

thanks,
--Barry




Marko Kreen wrote:

 I dusted a old patch that integrates Ant better with autoconf.  It 
 creates a file src/ant.cfg.in to pass autoconf parameters to Ant.  Now

 Ant can be used directly, without going through Makefile.
 
 'install.directory' is still passed in Makefile to keep DESTDIR 
 working.
 
 



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Re: [JDBC] [PATCHES] Ant configuration

2001-10-17 Thread Bruce Momjian

 On Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 01:23:13PM -0700, Barry Lind wrote:
  I don't like this patch.  If anything I think we should remove the 
  dependency on ANT, not remove the dependency on make.
  
  By requiring ANT, we provide yet another hurdle for someone wanting to 
  use JDBC with postgres.  I would prefer that the build environment be 
  the same for the database as for the jdbc code.
  
  Anything that makes it more difficult to download the source and get 
  going with it is a negative in my opinion.  And from my perspective 
  requiring the download of an additional tool (ANT in this case) makes it 
  more difficult.
 
 I have no strong feelings about current situation, I simply made
 it more flexible.  About changing it, you should consult JDBC
 maintainers first, maybe they have some good reason why its
 so...

Barry and Dave are the jdbc maintainers now and I think there is general
consensus that we want to get away from Ant if possible.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive, |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.|  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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